i wasn't even thinking of writing a book but you got me to watch the entire thing. very well done. now maybe i can talk to my daughter about her book knowing more what goes in to it.
You made me start writing my novel. I don't know where this will take me and if this will be a succes or not. But Ellen, I can say. You've changed my life. Thank you.
Thanks for this boot camp! I'm usually listening to podcasts etc and, although there's a lot of good information, it can sometimes be a bit scattered. Really helpful to have all this information put in order.
Writing Excuses is my favourite. Only 15 minutes long and they have like 4 or 5 hosts per episode so they cover a lot of ground in a short time. Write Now is also good. A little longer and more "story-like", but good to listen to when you're doing something else as it's a little less intense than Writing Excuses. Honourable mentions go to I Should Be Writing and Grammar Girl. Enjoy!
Thank U so much for the several tips, was really instructive and gave me a new perspective. I usually work with the Joseph Campbell's structure. recently I realized through some other fellow writters who use another structures such as: Syd Field, Robert Mackee, Linda Seger among another authors, that I could combine them... and it have been very usefull. grettings from Mexico.
One outline type I’ve taken a liking to is the “1 page outline”/ “7 part outline” it starts with Stasis- your MC as is before everything. Trigger- something happens- this leads to the Quest- Blot- something goes wrong- Shift- your character is a step closer to their end state- Defeat- rock bottom- Power- overcoming defeat/ ending climax- resolution.
This is very helpful. The notes that you give is to the point. I usually write for hours looking to make point. But, when these notes, I will definitely put them to use. Thanks👍🏾
Don't forget that these plot points can be combined. Example: The character becomes trapped by his Obligations. Yeah that's a good one. Feel free to steal that idea. I'm going with: The character receives an ultimatum and is taped by an obligation then pursued by space pirates. Oh wait? I think that's Guardians of the Galaxy.
Mine is he's trapped by his obligation but it's not a good one, but it turns out not to be as bad as it seems overtime but he beliefs it has to be bad to the point he well .. actually makes it bad.
Thank you Ellen ! I am french from Paris and I appreciate a lot your advices. What I found in France about this subject was very far away from the quality I found in your interventions. Thanks again !
Another idea for plot points. Make a list of all principle verbs used in your story, so far, including the 'lusty' ones. Make another separate list of your characters. Then make a list of principle events, real or imagined. You then go through each verb, inventing tiny sentence combinations out of the characters and events. Quite a number of them will surely not do as coherent and cohesive ideas. But a few will ring bells. "Eureka!" "That sounds a bit improbable, but ..." Soon you will have a new list of snazzy leads towards a good story. You then recombine them according to sequence. Logic, timing and relatedness will be a problem, but you can work that out. (Can't you, Mr Le Carre?) Keep at it! This my current model for plotting. It sure improves upon random fantasising and it gives me a good coverage from the statistical angle. Still not quite a book, but .... wowie, zowie! - John
Thank you Ellen. I really appreciated this information and the manner in which you share. Please keep the video's coming as I am getting alot out of them.
How would that work out if there are multiple point-of-view characters? Does everyone of them have a first major plot point if their storylines seem independent?
I'm writing a story where the protag loses his father and his sister is in a foster home. There is a disconnect between the protag and sister, since the protag ends up escaping the orphanage to get his own life. However the story is about saving the sister because her foster father is in trouble with organized crime. Can I make the audience feel for the conflict if the sister has limited screen time? The protag can not approach the sister without get caught by police himself, and the sister is too young (9) to be aware of the plot.
Great vid. Super stoked to see you uploading more often. :) By the way, you're looking younger in your new vids. Think it's the longer hair. Anyways keep up the good work. Lots of your advice has helped.
You say that you should have it occur near quarter way through, but in my draft they pass the point of no-return by the 2nd chapter. Do I need to pad the beginning out with filler? I'm worried about losing pace
Hi Ellen, i was wondering if you could write two or more plot points for the begining of the story like you said, or even more to add to the higer stakes you want to present to the total outcome of the story. If yes should it be limited to no more than two, in order to escape the plot's becoming to convaluting to the reader, or would it depened on how much emphesis you tag on each one?
Wow, your videos help a LOT! Thank you so much. I'm writing a book and it has multiple points of view and at least three main charachters experiencing different beginings and meeting each other along the story, the question is, do i have to have a first plot point for each or is there supposed to be first one plot point for the story in general?
I am writing a story with several main charas (5, up until now). Two of them have a first plot point - but I'm not so sure about the three others. Do they need a first plot point? (Note, that these characters havn't all met each other yet, and their stories are still quite independent of each other) Two other characters have been pursued, and still are, they always have been - so its not really something new. - - Your videos have been really helpful. Thank you for making them!
Let's say a character is forced into a certain predicament where they must go back in time to secure their's (and other's) safety in the future... but the character forgets everything that happens, upon returning to said critical moment, and is left only a few physical clues to piece together... Edit: Whilst being pursued by the same forces that sent them back in the first place. ...Is that a plausible first plot point? Just wondering ^^;;
dshreve34 I noticed on all her videos there are few thumbs down. I think it's the same people hating on her out of jealousy. I can't think k of another reason for people to click on the thumbs down, her videos are fantastic and to the point.
My protagonist becomes obligated to collect a huge sum of money from one gangster & deliver it to another gangster (friend/acquaintance). Trouble is...this plot point doesn't start until the 7th chapter & I've been advised to start the 1st chapter with this plot point and weave in the backstories. Not so easy...but would you recommend doing this?
The character can no longer live in the Normal World. Luke's home is destroyed; Dorothy is blown away to Oz; Scrooge takes the Spirit's hand and they pass through a wall; Wendy flies with Peter away to Neverland; Harry goes to Hogwarts. Dorothy's FPP is interesting because it is very long. It starts when Toto comes back. If Toto hadn't come back, Dorothy would have finished crying and then gone back to work. Instead, Dorothy decides to leave home to save Toto; this begins a chain of events which leads to her waking up in Oz. Also interestingly, her goal changes from "save Toto" to "get back to her aunt" to "go home."
I have a question: that thing about the possessed painting, was it a reference to Stephen King's Rose Madder? And if so, are all of your examples from published novels? :)
Can the 1st Plot Point occur in the first chapter? I see my main character getting swept up by events very early on. Should I add filler to push this back?
Haha, my protagonist becomes trapped, obligated to do something, and recieves an ultimatum all at one. Too many moving parts, or just multidimensional?
i wasn't even thinking of writing a book but you got me to watch the entire thing. very well done. now maybe i can talk to my daughter about her book knowing more what goes in to it.
I love the way you explain things ... Crisp and clear
Again, fantastic advice. I like the way you throw in examples to make it all that much clearer. Very helpful.
Thanks for the tips Ellen. I'm working on a short story and it needs better direction. This will help.
You made me start writing my novel. I don't know where this will take me and if this will be a succes or not. But Ellen, I can say. You've changed my life. Thank you.
Thanks for this boot camp! I'm usually listening to podcasts etc and, although there's a lot of good information, it can sometimes be a bit scattered. Really helpful to have all this information put in order.
What are some good writing podcasts?
Writing Excuses is my favourite. Only 15 minutes long and they have like 4 or 5 hosts per episode so they cover a lot of ground in a short time.
Write Now is also good. A little longer and more "story-like", but good to listen to when you're doing something else as it's a little less intense than Writing Excuses.
Honourable mentions go to I Should Be Writing and Grammar Girl.
Enjoy!
you're an angel ms/mrs Brock. this video really really helped me
This entire playlist. Thank you.
I've been struggling with plot points lately, so I'm really glad this showed up in my recommended feed. Definitely need to come back to this later!
"Together ness I'm never alone when I'm with Ellen
Thank you so much for taking the time to provide your tips.
Thank U so much for the several tips, was really instructive and gave me a new perspective. I usually work with the Joseph Campbell's structure. recently I realized through some other fellow writters who use another structures such as: Syd Field, Robert Mackee, Linda Seger among another authors, that I could combine them... and it have been very usefull. grettings from Mexico.
One outline type I’ve taken a liking to is the “1 page outline”/ “7 part outline” it starts with Stasis- your MC as is before everything. Trigger- something happens- this leads to the Quest- Blot- something goes wrong- Shift- your character is a step closer to their end state- Defeat- rock bottom- Power- overcoming defeat/ ending climax- resolution.
Found this outline from Lady Writer’s blog- Eva Deverell
Wow! I _love_ your explanations!
You explain the most important points with such clarity and simplicity. Thank you so much for this video! 👍👍👍👍
You're the best, Ellen
Great advice per usual. Thank you, Ellen.
I enjoy listening to you and the way you explain how to approach and tackle plot points to help move the story along. Thank you!
This is very helpful. The notes that you give is to the point. I usually write for hours looking to make point. But, when these notes, I will definitely put them to use. Thanks👍🏾
Thank you, Ellen! Your advice is really helpful. I am glad you are posting videos again :D
Don't forget that these plot points can be combined. Example: The character becomes trapped by his Obligations. Yeah that's a good one. Feel free to steal that idea. I'm going with: The character receives an ultimatum and is taped by an obligation then pursued by space pirates. Oh wait? I think that's Guardians of the Galaxy.
Mine is he's trapped by his obligation but it's not a good one, but it turns out not to be as bad as it seems overtime but he beliefs it has to be bad to the point he well .. actually makes it bad.
This series is very helpful. Thank you!
You're truly awesome! Thank you.
Thank you Ellen ! I am french from Paris and I appreciate a lot your advices. What I found in France about this subject was very far away from the quality I found in your interventions. Thanks again !
Awesome advice
Well done Ellen!
Thank you very much for this video. Not only helpful, but enlightening.
Another idea for plot points. Make a list of all principle verbs used in your story, so far, including the 'lusty' ones. Make another separate list of your characters. Then make a list of principle events, real or imagined. You then go through each verb, inventing tiny sentence combinations out of the characters and events. Quite a number of them will surely not do as coherent and cohesive ideas. But a few will ring bells. "Eureka!" "That sounds a bit improbable, but ..." Soon you will have a new list of snazzy leads towards a good story.
You then recombine them according to sequence. Logic, timing and relatedness will be a problem, but you can work that out. (Can't you, Mr Le Carre?) Keep at it!
This my current model for plotting. It sure improves upon random fantasising and it gives me a good coverage from the statistical angle. Still not quite a book, but .... wowie, zowie! - John
Thank you Ellen. I really appreciated this information and the manner in which you share. Please keep the video's coming as I am getting alot out of them.
This video was very helpful, thanks!
Yay... my first plot point was... at the first page...
Thanks a lot for the precious guidance.
I learned something new today. Thank you.
Love your videos! Thank you!
Great advice. Thanks
thank you :)
this is great. thank you!
When I was watching the opening seconds, I was thinking, "stakes." Then, at 0:45, you confirmed that for me.
Thanks.
How would that work out if there are multiple point-of-view characters? Does everyone of them have a first major plot point if their storylines seem independent?
I'm writing a story where the protag loses his father and his sister is in a foster home. There is a disconnect between the protag and sister, since the protag ends up escaping the orphanage to get his own life. However the story is about saving the sister because her foster father is in trouble with organized crime. Can I make the audience feel for the conflict if the sister has limited screen time? The protag can not approach the sister without get caught by police himself, and the sister is too young (9) to be aware of the plot.
So the first plot point is the inciting incident..?
What is the difference between inciting incident and first plot point?
Great vid. Super stoked to see you uploading more often. :) By the way, you're looking younger in your new vids. Think it's the longer hair. Anyways keep up the good work. Lots of your advice has helped.
You say that you should have it occur near quarter way through, but in my draft they pass the point of no-return by the 2nd chapter. Do I need to pad the beginning out with filler? I'm worried about losing pace
In detective stories what are usual first plot point for them?
"Your Nose all of a sudden starts growing longer whilst you're doing a Video. You reach for a Tissue but the box is empty?"
Chapter One What should I do today! Where should I goChapter Two Is my Day a good on or did I get out the wrong side this morning
So it's crossing the threshold?
Hi Ellen, i was wondering if you could write two or more plot points for the begining of the story like you said, or even more to add to the higer stakes you want to present to the total outcome of the story. If yes should it be limited to no more than two, in order to escape the plot's becoming to convaluting to the reader, or would it depened on how much emphesis you tag on each one?
Wow, your videos help a LOT! Thank you so much. I'm writing a book and it has multiple points of view and at least three main charachters experiencing different beginings and meeting each other along the story, the question is, do i have to have a first plot point for each or is there supposed to be first one plot point for the story in general?
I am writing a story with several main charas (5, up until now). Two of them have a first plot point - but I'm not so sure about the three others. Do they need a first plot point? (Note, that these characters havn't all met each other yet, and their stories are still quite independent of each other) Two other characters have been pursued, and still are, they always have been - so its not really something new. - - Your videos have been really helpful. Thank you for making them!
Let's say a character is forced into a certain predicament where they must go back in time to secure their's (and other's) safety in the future... but the character forgets everything that happens, upon returning to said critical moment, and is left only a few physical clues to piece together...
Edit: Whilst being pursued by the same forces that sent them back in the first place.
...Is that a plausible first plot point?
Just wondering ^^;;
Going through your videos I see 1 thumb down or 2 or 3. I didn't think that was possible.
dshreve34 I noticed on all her videos there are few thumbs down. I think it's the same people hating on her out of jealousy. I can't think k of another reason for people to click on the thumbs down, her videos are fantastic and to the point.
I dont even see a point to thumbs down in general, if you dont like it, dont whatch it. you dont have to smear it on the posters` face
My protagonist becomes obligated to collect a huge sum of money from one gangster & deliver it to another gangster (friend/acquaintance). Trouble is...this plot point doesn't start until the 7th chapter & I've been advised to start the 1st chapter with this plot point and weave in the backstories. Not so easy...but would you recommend doing this?
Just trying to understand better: what would be the first plot point in "Catch 22"?
Glad to see you back doing videos...but I still think short hair really suits you...I'm just sayin'....
Glad you stopped to say that
In terms of Save the Cat language, what is the first plot point? Is it "break into 2" or the the "catalyst"?
"break into 2"
If you've just started writing your novel how do you know when you 25%, or whatever, into your novel?
The character can no longer live in the Normal World. Luke's home is destroyed; Dorothy is blown away to Oz; Scrooge takes the Spirit's hand and they pass through a wall; Wendy flies with Peter away to Neverland; Harry goes to Hogwarts.
Dorothy's FPP is interesting because it is very long. It starts when Toto comes back. If Toto hadn't come back, Dorothy would have finished crying and then gone back to work. Instead, Dorothy decides to leave home to save Toto; this begins a chain of events which leads to her waking up in Oz. Also interestingly, her goal changes from "save Toto" to "get back to her aunt" to "go home."
💚
Without friends
So I'm guessing with percy jackson the plot point is his mother getting taken by hades?
I have a question: that thing about the possessed painting, was it a reference to Stephen King's Rose Madder?
And if so, are all of your examples from published novels? :)
It was not an intentional reference to Rose Madder, just an attempt to provide a useful example.
+Ellen Brock I see.... I'm a little bit disappointed, but the video is still great =]
Can the 1st Plot Point occur in the first chapter? I see my main character getting swept up by events very early on. Should I add filler to push this back?
entainwinter no! you should never add filler! Everything that happens in the story needs to be related to the plot.
Haha, my protagonist becomes trapped, obligated to do something, and recieves an ultimatum all at one. Too many moving parts, or just multidimensional?
"Close Encounters Who are these People. Why are the leaves on the Trees turning Blue??"
Plot point - both the character and reader must have vested interest in the outcome
Trapped, Where did put my savings, the box is empty!
"Twenty five percent of nothingness, then we come out of the woods?"
Please know you are super adorable.
Are you Irish ?
vocal fry