Thank you for your honest, accurate video titles. A lesser channel would have called it something like "Can YOU bet Commander Keen with NO POINTS" or something. That level of integrity is so rare, and one of the reasons I've watched your channel for years. (Ken's Labyrinth was the one I found you on, if you're curious!) As for suggestions, how about the Jill or Xargon trilogy?
I've never beaten Jill so I doubt there's anything I could do with that one for a Pro video, but I'm not adverse to seeing if I can figure out a good Pro treatment for Xargon. :B
Imagine trying to explain this concept to the game developers. "No, they're trying to avoid picking up those items. Yes, they understand those items are good and high scoring means picking up as many as possible." 😂
It's about as sane of a concept to them as speedrunning, I imagine. "Yes, they're trying to play as little of the game as possible, as fast as possible. Yes, they know you're supposed to play the levels."
I originally tried to start ADG in 2008, though that attempt lasted two episodes and I think only seven people ever saw it. The next attempt to get ADG going was May 2010 and that's what's stuck around. Before then, it was only my own indie shareware and freeware games on my site! :B
@@todorkolev7565 I mean, theoretically that only recently stopped being a thing, though I hadn't actually touched my ICQ account since the mid-2000s. :P
This was fantastic! I do love 'can you beat x with/without y' gaming videos when they're done well and discuss interesting strategies. I didn't expect something like this to come out of your channel, but it makes sense that it fits adg pro. I really hope you can do more minimum score challenges for other dos games later, as I don't see anybody do challenges like these for dos games. This video proved that that is a very interesting concept to explore though.
If you take a look at the ADG Pro playlist you'll see I've actually checked out the Minimum Winning Score with a couple other games too! ruclips.net/p/PLCIZNtotF3XjXWx-iJ1QcMFfnFmIqMIrA
@@Pixelmusement Oh that's true! I've watched them all before, I guess it didn't click with me until now. I guess it's that Commander Keen is the most 'Mario-like' game you've done for ADG Pro, so I ended up making that correlation this time. (Because a lot of those challenge videos it reminds me of are on Mario games.)
I started doing this in my Keen 6 playthroughs this year to add some variety. However, after a few levels my 30+ years of muscle memory kicks in and I just start collecting points again while my brain is on autopilot 😅
Regarding the caves level in Ken 3 - the "regular" exit is blocked by unavoidable spikes, which makes it unbeatable when taking that route. To this very day, it is not clear if this is a bug or intentional (i.e. Tom Hall always wanted you to take the upper route and going through the caves was always a false lead).
13:58 I think it's possible to avoid that chocolate bar and reduce your score with an additional 100 points. You jump and move backwards. Then a precise jump from there above the chocolate bar.
OK, so... what ends up happening is that if you attempt to pogo straight up, you will hit the chocolate bars above. If you attempt a normal jump it's not high enough. Pogo without holding jump is the same height as a normal jump. If you try to do a controlled pogo jump up to avoid the chocolate above you will either not make it far enough right to land on that block, and if you go for the left block you still have no way to go further right without getting a chocolate bar. If there is a way to do it then it would be TAS-only as it would require sub-pixel precision and multiple frame-perfect inputs very quickly. :P
...I did some more testing and OK, I see what you're saying now... but pulling off what you're describing is BEYOND difficult: You have to pull off two pogo-ascends in a row without the second one failing, you have to frame-perfectly release the pogo on the second ascension so you don't hit the chocolate bars above, AND you have to do a frame-perfect jump and release to cross the gap. That's several sub-pixel and frame-perfect things you have to do in a row. It CAN be done but the level of precision required is RIDICULOUS. :P
@@Pixelmusement It isn't that hard if you do it correctly :). But you can do a big pogo jump from standing. activated pogo then immediately jump (and stear) its a pretty important skill to have and a somewhat standard move for advanced players I'd say. the second jump to go under the 2 chocolate is also somewhat difficult but not really. as you mentioned it is sort of pixel perfect but not really. you have several pixels of space to use before you touch them. watch and learn: (I love this game) ruclips.net/video/_uifQWP_z8w/видео.html
@@Pixelmusement to clarify the second pogo jump is indeed kind of hard because you need to push the jump button and release it at the right time. But it isn't unreasonably hard. You can sort of get a feel for it. once you know how long you have to hold the jump button to go up a certain amount it should be the same and you can get a feel for it. And you do get a fairly large margin of error.
I've always found it interesting that it doesn't seem possible to collect all the point collectables in Commander Keen without cheats. I'm sure some of them are out of reach, even when using the Impossible Pogo Jump trick.
As for the maximum score, I think some of the level editors out there can calculate the amount of points you can get, so you'll just have to figure out only the items that the player cannot collect without cheats. Abiathar level editor has a Resource Accountant tool. It works with Keens 4-6, though it wasn't working with Keen 1-3.
Yeah, but for a Pro video the idea is not to take shortcuts like that! (Also, RUclips made it look like you deleted your first comment, but then it magically reappeared along with my comment it said didn't post correctly... I swear RUclips barely functions right sometimes...)
After watching some of the jumps in here that you'd have to make without hitting any items that scored points, it's clear that you have more patience for this sort of thing than I do. I'd be happy just saying it's 0, but make no mistake, Kris, you do us all a service with this video. Now when are we getting that Wing Commander 3 video?
I tried this challenge for Keen 1 like 5 years ago. Around that same time I also beat it without killing a single enemy. I never recorded any videos of either, though...
Don't you have to kill the Vortican with the metal bar, or is there actually a way to take the other path without using the infinite pogo flight of God Mode?
Of course it wouldn't be challenging - the most valuable items are usually put in harder to reach areas, so avoiding them would make the game easier ;)
It's in the underground area specifically and it's only there because if you don't take the shortcut and end up down there then you MUST have the pogo stick to get out, otherwise one of the jumps you have to make is impossibly high. :P
"Not as difficult as I was expecting" ... o_O .... well, fine, when you skip 99% of the games then it's easy. When I saw the title, I was fully expecting you to torture yourself through all three games. Nope. Pffff. :D
Well, now we know what Low% even looks like! (Unless there's glitches which would drive the score down further, in which case, now we know what "Low% Glitchless" looks like!)
Thank you for your honest, accurate video titles. A lesser channel would have called it something like "Can YOU bet Commander Keen with NO POINTS" or something. That level of integrity is so rare, and one of the reasons I've watched your channel for years. (Ken's Labyrinth was the one I found you on, if you're curious!)
As for suggestions, how about the Jill or Xargon trilogy?
Heh, a lesser channel would have used a more clickbait-like title, e.g. "This way of beating Commander Keen WILL SHOCK YOU!!!"
I've never beaten Jill so I doubt there's anything I could do with that one for a Pro video, but I'm not adverse to seeing if I can figure out a good Pro treatment for Xargon. :B
Dodging so many unhealthy snacks. It's the Commander Keen Healthrun!
Commander Keen Pro video is all I ever wanted!
Thanks for the vid and the nostalgy rush, Kris!!
Long live Commander Keen, mr. 314 ;)
That's some great content right there. Glad to see you tackle Commander Keen!
Imagine trying to explain this concept to the game developers. "No, they're trying to avoid picking up those items. Yes, they understand those items are good and high scoring means picking up as many as possible." 😂
It's about as sane of a concept to them as speedrunning, I imagine. "Yes, they're trying to play as little of the game as possible, as fast as possible. Yes, they know you're supposed to play the levels."
If the next episode isn't CrossCode this is your regular reminder to play CrossCode.
With all the crap going around, you are a respite... You have been to me for so long, Gemini (since 2003 I think?) Love you dude and best wishes!
I originally tried to start ADG in 2008, though that attempt lasted two episodes and I think only seven people ever saw it. The next attempt to get ADG going was May 2010 and that's what's stuck around. Before then, it was only my own indie shareware and freeware games on my site! :B
@@Pixelmusement yep. I even found you on ICQ back when that was a thing :)
@@todorkolev7565 I mean, theoretically that only recently stopped being a thing, though I hadn't actually touched my ICQ account since the mid-2000s. :P
This was fantastic! I do love 'can you beat x with/without y' gaming videos when they're done well and discuss interesting strategies. I didn't expect something like this to come out of your channel, but it makes sense that it fits adg pro. I really hope you can do more minimum score challenges for other dos games later, as I don't see anybody do challenges like these for dos games. This video proved that that is a very interesting concept to explore though.
If you take a look at the ADG Pro playlist you'll see I've actually checked out the Minimum Winning Score with a couple other games too! ruclips.net/p/PLCIZNtotF3XjXWx-iJ1QcMFfnFmIqMIrA
@@Pixelmusement Oh that's true! I've watched them all before, I guess it didn't click with me until now. I guess it's that Commander Keen is the most 'Mario-like' game you've done for ADG Pro, so I ended up making that correlation this time. (Because a lot of those challenge videos it reminds me of are on Mario games.)
Miss those games - loved playing them.
I started doing this in my Keen 6 playthroughs this year to add some variety. However, after a few levels my 30+ years of muscle memory kicks in and I just start collecting points again while my brain is on autopilot 😅
Regarding the caves level in Ken 3 - the "regular" exit is blocked by unavoidable spikes, which makes it unbeatable when taking that route. To this very day, it is not clear if this is a bug or intentional (i.e. Tom Hall always wanted you to take the upper route and going through the caves was always a false lead).
I never knew this. I always played with God mode so i never found out about this.
I hope you do the Goodbye Galaxy series too! Thanks for the video.
13:58 I think it's possible to avoid that chocolate bar and reduce your score with an additional 100 points. You jump and move backwards. Then a precise jump from there above the chocolate bar.
it is
OK, so... what ends up happening is that if you attempt to pogo straight up, you will hit the chocolate bars above. If you attempt a normal jump it's not high enough. Pogo without holding jump is the same height as a normal jump. If you try to do a controlled pogo jump up to avoid the chocolate above you will either not make it far enough right to land on that block, and if you go for the left block you still have no way to go further right without getting a chocolate bar. If there is a way to do it then it would be TAS-only as it would require sub-pixel precision and multiple frame-perfect inputs very quickly. :P
...I did some more testing and OK, I see what you're saying now... but pulling off what you're describing is BEYOND difficult: You have to pull off two pogo-ascends in a row without the second one failing, you have to frame-perfectly release the pogo on the second ascension so you don't hit the chocolate bars above, AND you have to do a frame-perfect jump and release to cross the gap. That's several sub-pixel and frame-perfect things you have to do in a row. It CAN be done but the level of precision required is RIDICULOUS. :P
@@Pixelmusement It isn't that hard if you do it correctly :). But you can do a big pogo jump from standing. activated pogo then immediately jump (and stear) its a pretty important skill to have and a somewhat standard move for advanced players I'd say. the second jump to go under the 2 chocolate is also somewhat difficult but not really. as you mentioned it is sort of pixel perfect but not really. you have several pixels of space to use before you touch them.
watch and learn: (I love this game)
ruclips.net/video/_uifQWP_z8w/видео.html
@@Pixelmusement to clarify the second pogo jump is indeed kind of hard because you need to push the jump button and release it at the right time. But it isn't unreasonably hard. You can sort of get a feel for it. once you know how long you have to hold the jump button to go up a certain amount it should be the same and you can get a feel for it. And you do get a fairly large margin of error.
I've always found it interesting that it doesn't seem possible to collect all the point collectables in Commander Keen without cheats. I'm sure some of them are out of reach, even when using the Impossible Pogo Jump trick.
I could never get some items either no matter what I did. All this time I thought it was just me being lousy at games. Glad to know I'm not alone!
As for the maximum score, I think some of the level editors out there can calculate the amount of points you can get, so you'll just have to figure out only the items that the player cannot collect without cheats. Abiathar level editor has a Resource Accountant tool. It works with Keens 4-6, though it wasn't working with Keen 1-3.
Yeah, but for a Pro video the idea is not to take shortcuts like that! (Also, RUclips made it look like you deleted your first comment, but then it magically reappeared along with my comment it said didn't post correctly... I swear RUclips barely functions right sometimes...)
After watching some of the jumps in here that you'd have to make without hitting any items that scored points, it's clear that you have more patience for this sort of thing than I do. I'd be happy just saying it's 0, but make no mistake, Kris, you do us all a service with this video.
Now when are we getting that Wing Commander 3 video?
What a strange premise. :)
Wow, you should be a world recod holding speedrunner.... :O
I tried this challenge for Keen 1 like 5 years ago. Around that same time I also beat it without killing a single enemy. I never recorded any videos of either, though...
Don't you have to kill the Vortican with the metal bar, or is there actually a way to take the other path without using the infinite pogo flight of God Mode?
@@Compucles You can go under the stone and sneak past it. It's a little tricky.
It'd be so nice if you could shoot the soda cans like in Duke Nukem
Of course it wouldn't be challenging - the most valuable items are usually put in harder to reach areas, so avoiding them would make the game easier ;)
CLASSIC
There's a second pogo stick in the last level of Keen 1.
It's in the underground area specifically and it's only there because if you don't take the shortcut and end up down there then you MUST have the pogo stick to get out, otherwise one of the jumps you have to make is impossibly high. :P
"Not as difficult as I was expecting" ... o_O .... well, fine, when you skip 99% of the games then it's easy. When I saw the title, I was fully expecting you to torture yourself through all three games. Nope. Pffff. :D
Low%
Well, now we know what Low% even looks like! (Unless there's glitches which would drive the score down further, in which case, now we know what "Low% Glitchless" looks like!)