Remember when commander was a brewers format based around cute and niche interactions based on years of magic's history? Kind of hard to have that expression anymore when everything including OUTSIDE OF FORMAT PRODUCTS being made for commander.
Commander players are lying when they say this. Because there's been plenty of broken commanders that weren't designed for commander (Kenrith, Korvold, and Chulane mostly), and they complain that they should've been made differently so they'd play differently in commander.
@@jadegrace1312 I don't know why I have to explain this to you but "commander players" isn't a person or an object, it makes no sense to make a blanket statement. Everyone is going to have a variety of opinions because they are all individual people. You are doing the same thing that people who judge the game do when they say "MTG players are overweight and don't shower". Generalizing what is ultimately millions of people from every corner of the world into one sentence is....not smart, to be polite. It's honestly just very telling about your own mental capacity to understand the world through more than just one lens, just saying lol
Commander players aren't the issue, the issue is Wizards trying to cater to a format that they STILL have not made the cover format. They pump products into Commander and all non-commander sets for Commander, yet don't properly design for their OTHER formats.
I accept that WotC thinks every set needs to have "Commander player bait", but is that not why they make Commander products alongside every major release? Why are cards that are explicitly being designed for Commander spilling over into the main sets? It's a bit maddening.
Depending on your counting, MH3 added 20-30 new cards that are seeing play across Modern. If only 30 cards in the 300+ card set are actually going to be viable, what's the harm in printing cards that would draw in the casual audience? (And no, Nadu wasn't a problem because of Commander, it was a problem because they changed the card and shipped it without play testing it.)
No? I mean this is fully the designer's fault lol. Not a single commander player is in charge of designing cards for future sets. There is supposed to be a paid team of card designers and R&D at Hasbro making sure cards like these don't get printed lol. Even if the aim of the desgin team is to control for commander play, which is incredibly stupid for a set that should cater for MODERN players, then printing this without playtesting enough was incredibly irresponsible.
Definitely think this is combination of factors. Like designing for commander and having basically no time to playtest is a perfect storm for format destroying cards
what's ridiculous is it's their own schedule! I don't want to hear "waa we didn't have enough time!" like it's us setting the deadlines. Give yourselves more time then wizards, stop being so sloppy.
This is a bad take. The sheer number of releases that wotc has in a year because they want more money leaves little resources for r&d . They fucked it when they chose it
Commander players’ buying habits are the root cause of WotC printing broken cards with commander in mind. 1 WotC makes pushed commander card 2 commander players gobble it up 3 WotC now has the incentive to push further
this has to be one of the dumbest take ive ever seen. how hard can you bend over backwards to try and blame commander players for a product that they didnt even ask for?
@@HuntersheepKaridas then why did they buy it? The precon with dockside flew off the shelves. MH3 was a runaway success with commander players. If commander players "dont want it" yall have an odd way of showing it.
I feel like its worth reminding people that the really bad Wheel of Potential's effect text error was a thing in MH3 as well. Quality assurance was absolutely a factor.
As a commander player i didn't ask for nadu. I don't want this powercreep, i want to play interesting, thematic decks, not some rotating meta bullshit forced on me by ever stronger cards.
I just wish they'd stop designing cards for specific formats. The whole point is standard -> eternal formats. Standard dying is killing the game overall. Who wants to get into a game where you have to spend a grand for a deck that doesn't get stomped, because those are the formats that people play.
Yeah, I mean, keywords like Myriad are cool, but only if they're going to support more multiplayer formats. But WotC never supported multiplayer until EDH took off, and since then they've printed EDH until the cows come home and a single 2HG set... But it's not just Standard dying that's hurting the game, it's the ever poorer draft environment too.
@@eruantien9932 Literally the only time I ever get to play sealed or draft any more is prerelease, which is the only time anyone seems to care about non-EDH formats. The game stores near me run two EDH nights a week but don't go near 60 card games because nobody cares. It makes me so sad, as I can't deal with two hour long commander games and I don't like the way the decks are optimised and cutthroat. That's meant to be modern, but watching some ass mill his whole deck with a £100 card looking for his combo pieces AGAIN just makes me want to not play.
Commander players are not to blame for Nadu. Wizards rushed an untested card into products and decided not to emergency ban it when players figured it out the day it was spoiled. Letting it sour Modern for months for the sake "consumer confidence" and "sticking to the banning schedule" was a massive backfire. However, the narrative of "designing cards for Commander is ruining the game" is just a scapegoat here. Nadu's problematic combo lines were missed in the final round of checks, and the final card wasn't play tested at all. The talk about trying to give it a home as a Commander build-around came after the Commander play testers gave their feedback and the flash ability was removed. The problems with Nadu weren't caused because of Commander, but because of the lack of foresight to test the card properly. And of course they're going to design cards for Commander, the company would be pretty dumb to not market its most premium set of the year to its largest demographic.
To the title question, no the blame lies solely one one thing and frankly we have seen it for years in magic and has nothing to do with a format it has to do with seeing a card and making a last minute change, seriously this is explicitly why skullclamp is as strong as it is a last minute change enabled it to be tool to make 1/1s turn into 2 cards for 1 mana. And while that is notable event it has happened multiple times but the point of showing that event is because that was nearly 20 years ago. Last minute changes means little to no quality control or forethought comes from it and that has lead to overpowered cards.
Let's be honest; no format is to blame for the tracking nightmare that is "this ability triggers only twice each turn" per card. I have no idea what they were smoking to make them think that was a good idea for a physical card - this *must* be a card originally for an Arena only set that somehow escaped into paper Magic. Maybe they were looking at making a multiplayer version of Brawl or something. Edit: Also, "didn't playtest the final iteration"? Where have I heard that before? Oh, right... SKULLCLAMP.
I like commander…but dear lord commander is ruining magic. I was so excited for MH3 because so many new players have enetered since MH2 and I was like “oh they’re for sure gonna print some modern challenger decks that introduce people to 60 card format”. NOPE we got commander decks…LIKE BLOODY HELL MAN.
Blame WotC for this shit. Nadu was clearly over tuned, no matter the format. I'm primarily Commander, but I'd rather sets like Modern Horizons have stuff like Modern precons instead of Commander. If I'd have my way, I'd have at most one commander precon per set or a yearly wave of precons like before, but they'd be support for the sets released in the year leading up to the wave of precons.
Yes they are. Because WotC believed commander players, their largest audience, would rush out and buy packs to get it 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑 They don't give one iota about 60-card formats because it's no longer the primary mode of play for this stupid game.
WotC puts out more than enough commander products. They can design for commander in those products. The game existed for literally decades before edh was a thing. The $$ argument only goes so far.
To be fair , MH3 is literally just premium cards plucked from all the sets beforehand, nadu wouldint have been a problem if he was printed in ixilian and banned going into the new year. Wizards is just greedy and they even let the speculation of nadu getting banned to run dry beforehand
Also side note: Commander players are not keeping MTG Alive. This game survived for 2 decades without them, and it would still exist without them, arguably in a better state. WOTC is the only profitable division of Hasbro ATM, so they demand that WOTC farm every singular penny out of players possible to the detriment of the community overall.
Commander player are also saying to stop designing for Commander because they believe it is ruining Commander.
Remember when commander was a brewers format based around cute and niche interactions based on years of magic's history? Kind of hard to have that expression anymore when everything including OUTSIDE OF FORMAT PRODUCTS being made for commander.
command tower is my personal most hated card for this reason.
Commander players are lying when they say this. Because there's been plenty of broken commanders that weren't designed for commander (Kenrith, Korvold, and Chulane mostly), and they complain that they should've been made differently so they'd play differently in commander.
@@jadegrace1312 I don't know why I have to explain this to you but "commander players" isn't a person or an object, it makes no sense to make a blanket statement. Everyone is going to have a variety of opinions because they are all individual people.
You are doing the same thing that people who judge the game do when they say "MTG players are overweight and don't shower".
Generalizing what is ultimately millions of people from every corner of the world into one sentence is....not smart, to be polite. It's honestly just very telling about your own mental capacity to understand the world through more than just one lens, just saying lol
@@jadegrace1312 MTG players are lying when they say they take showers 😉
sets should be designed for the formats they target, commander masters for commander, modern horizions for modern, etc
Commander was better before WOTC started designing cards for commander.
Commander players aren't the issue, the issue is Wizards trying to cater to a format that they STILL have not made the cover format.
They pump products into Commander and all non-commander sets for Commander, yet don't properly design for their OTHER formats.
I accept that WotC thinks every set needs to have "Commander player bait", but is that not why they make Commander products alongside every major release? Why are cards that are explicitly being designed for Commander spilling over into the main sets? It's a bit maddening.
Depending on your counting, MH3 added 20-30 new cards that are seeing play across Modern. If only 30 cards in the 300+ card set are actually going to be viable, what's the harm in printing cards that would draw in the casual audience? (And no, Nadu wasn't a problem because of Commander, it was a problem because they changed the card and shipped it without play testing it.)
They want the commander players to buy the main set too
Nah its not commander players its WOTC
No? I mean this is fully the designer's fault lol. Not a single commander player is in charge of designing cards for future sets. There is supposed to be a paid team of card designers and R&D at Hasbro making sure cards like these don't get printed lol. Even if the aim of the desgin team is to control for commander play, which is incredibly stupid for a set that should cater for MODERN players, then printing this without playtesting enough was incredibly irresponsible.
Wizards designed a commander card in a modern set a MODERN SET that and having so many set releases they can’t even test it also hasbro its hasbro
Definitely think this is combination of factors. Like designing for commander and having basically no time to playtest is a perfect storm for format destroying cards
what's ridiculous is it's their own schedule! I don't want to hear "waa we didn't have enough time!" like it's us setting the deadlines. Give yourselves more time then wizards, stop being so sloppy.
@@user-co6ww2cm9k True, but they're not entirely to blame. Daddy Hasbro is very strict
This is a bad take. The sheer number of releases that wotc has in a year because they want more money leaves little resources for r&d . They fucked it when they chose it
Commander players’ buying habits are the root cause of WotC printing broken cards with commander in mind.
1 WotC makes pushed commander card
2 commander players gobble it up
3 WotC now has the incentive to push further
I personally loathe the immersion obliterating universes beyond but it sells really well. They design for commander because it sells.
this has to be one of the dumbest take ive ever seen. how hard can you bend over backwards to try and blame commander players for a product that they didnt even ask for?
@@HuntersheepKaridas then why did they buy it? The precon with dockside flew off the shelves. MH3 was a runaway success with commander players. If commander players "dont want it" yall have an odd way of showing it.
@thebigsquig Sound like Commander players are the ones keeping this game afloat, you can complain when you are paying the bills.
I feel like its worth reminding people that the really bad Wheel of Potential's effect text error was a thing in MH3 as well.
Quality assurance was absolutely a factor.
As a commander player i didn't ask for nadu. I don't want this powercreep, i want to play interesting, thematic decks, not some rotating meta bullshit forced on me by ever stronger cards.
Ahhh, 2017 and the 10 years before were Glorious. The days you speak of are long gone.
I just wish they'd stop designing cards for specific formats. The whole point is standard -> eternal formats. Standard dying is killing the game overall. Who wants to get into a game where you have to spend a grand for a deck that doesn't get stomped, because those are the formats that people play.
Yeah, I mean, keywords like Myriad are cool, but only if they're going to support more multiplayer formats. But WotC never supported multiplayer until EDH took off, and since then they've printed EDH until the cows come home and a single 2HG set...
But it's not just Standard dying that's hurting the game, it's the ever poorer draft environment too.
@@eruantien9932 Literally the only time I ever get to play sealed or draft any more is prerelease, which is the only time anyone seems to care about non-EDH formats.
The game stores near me run two EDH nights a week but don't go near 60 card games because nobody cares.
It makes me so sad, as I can't deal with two hour long commander games and I don't like the way the decks are optimised and cutthroat. That's meant to be modern, but watching some ass mill his whole deck with a £100 card looking for his combo pieces AGAIN just makes me want to not play.
Don't blame Commander players for this, we didn't ask for all this bloated product nor these under cooked cards.
Commander players are not to blame for Nadu. Wizards rushed an untested card into products and decided not to emergency ban it when players figured it out the day it was spoiled. Letting it sour Modern for months for the sake "consumer confidence" and "sticking to the banning schedule" was a massive backfire.
However, the narrative of "designing cards for Commander is ruining the game" is just a scapegoat here. Nadu's problematic combo lines were missed in the final round of checks, and the final card wasn't play tested at all. The talk about trying to give it a home as a Commander build-around came after the Commander play testers gave their feedback and the flash ability was removed. The problems with Nadu weren't caused because of Commander, but because of the lack of foresight to test the card properly.
And of course they're going to design cards for Commander, the company would be pretty dumb to not market its most premium set of the year to its largest demographic.
To the title question, no the blame lies solely one one thing and frankly we have seen it for years in magic and has nothing to do with a format it has to do with seeing a card and making a last minute change, seriously this is explicitly why skullclamp is as strong as it is a last minute change enabled it to be tool to make 1/1s turn into 2 cards for 1 mana. And while that is notable event it has happened multiple times but the point of showing that event is because that was nearly 20 years ago. Last minute changes means little to no quality control or forethought comes from it and that has lead to overpowered cards.
Let's be honest; no format is to blame for the tracking nightmare that is "this ability triggers only twice each turn" per card. I have no idea what they were smoking to make them think that was a good idea for a physical card - this *must* be a card originally for an Arena only set that somehow escaped into paper Magic. Maybe they were looking at making a multiplayer version of Brawl or something.
Edit: Also, "didn't playtest the final iteration"? Where have I heard that before? Oh, right... SKULLCLAMP.
The problem is Hasbro and how Wizards deal with the consequences of their mistakes.
I like commander…but dear lord commander is ruining magic. I was so excited for MH3 because so many new players have enetered since MH2 and I was like “oh they’re for sure gonna print some modern challenger decks that introduce people to 60 card format”. NOPE we got commander decks…LIKE BLOODY HELL MAN.
I loathe immersion obliterating universe beyond products but they sell. Commander players buy cards.
I'm not saying it's their fault, but im blaming them.
Blame WotC for this shit. Nadu was clearly over tuned, no matter the format. I'm primarily Commander, but I'd rather sets like Modern Horizons have stuff like Modern precons instead of Commander.
If I'd have my way, I'd have at most one commander precon per set or a yearly wave of precons like before, but they'd be support for the sets released in the year leading up to the wave of precons.
You're blaming the players who have zero input in card design, play testing or bannings instead of the company that controls all three? Wild take...
Yes they are. Because WotC believed commander players, their largest audience, would rush out and buy packs to get it 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
They don't give one iota about 60-card formats because it's no longer the primary mode of play for this stupid game.
WotC puts out more than enough commander products. They can design for commander in those products. The game existed for literally decades before edh was a thing. The $$ argument only goes so far.
The $$ argument is an explanation for their behavior, not a reason to think that it's a good choice.
To be fair , MH3 is literally just premium cards plucked from all the sets beforehand, nadu wouldint have been a problem if he was printed in ixilian and banned going into the new year.
Wizards is just greedy and they even let the speculation of nadu getting banned to run dry beforehand
Nadu looks like an Amonkhet character, not Ixialan
So it was Rashmi plus flash lol
ya no, WOTC is to blame.....
most commander players dont want them designing cards for us.
wizards just sucks
L take
Also side note: Commander players are not keeping MTG Alive. This game survived for 2 decades without them, and it would still exist without them, arguably in a better state. WOTC is the only profitable division of Hasbro ATM, so they demand that WOTC farm every singular penny out of players possible to the detriment of the community overall.
Players are in no way responsible for any of the troubles wizards is facing.
Commander excuse makes no sense.
Commander is about slow play, who the hell wanted a turn one draw your whole deck commander?