18:52 This is it, I'm calling it right now. This is how we defeat the Witness, by exploiting the fact that not everyone in the Precursor civilization wanted to be merged together, or even agree on what the Final Shape should be. If the Light is chaos, then breaking up the "perfect order" of the Witness has to be a key in defeating it. Especially if it's being highlighted here.
Since the travel seems to be making memories and thought into reality inside it then perhaps we can use that to interact or free trapped ones inside the witness. Cause this enough and we could use the chaos to kill the witness or even split them and have a powerful ally in the fight against them
It'll be like that one boss in Sonic 2 where every time you hit him, a little bubble flies off and you have to pop it and eventually he's got no bubbles left to protect him.
If I had a nickel for every time a civilization known as the Precursors create something that threatens to destroy the universe I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
I like how mithraaks handwriting is so clean compared to the other eliksni, its small but shows how well hes adapted to his situation and ontop of that how good he is as a leader showing his ability to learn new skills from another culture
Also one of the most important aspects of this lore is that the precursor referred to as RS bailed before the Witness's creation. THEY MIGHT STILL BE OUT THERE. That's HUGE. Also the Vex were created by and served the precursor civilization, so that's a thing and gives us some hints as to why the Vex will apparently be relevant next year.
I think the commentary from eido says the log was recovered from a derelict and ancient pyramid by a wolf ketch some time during the journey to sol, so that ancient pyramid that is unaligned to the witness is still out there somewhere unless it was claimed and folded into the witness pyramid fleet at some point
I thought the Vex originated from the Flower Game and then spilled out into the universe when it was formed? Then again, Bungie basically said the Flower Game was a metaphor so they can rewrite lore as they see fit, so who the hell knows.
@@samvimes9510That's one interpretation of the Unveiling lore book. However, we STILL don't have any definitive answers about its authenticity, plus, the fact that the book itself says the Garden-before-time was a metaphor, means that the truth of the Vex being the pattern is basically unknowable. I think the Vex might be an "echo" of that pattern; they can't simulate paracausality, and are very bad at interacting with it. It makes sense that they'd be less susceptible to paracausality if they were never MEANT to interact with it. But, as I said, we can only speculate.
I'm so happy that Eido was chosen as the one who came up with the book. It is a really interesting character with potential for great content not just seasonal stories in the future, specially for the relations between Eliksni and humanity, which is one of my favourite plots as of right now. And also it is really on character.
She reminds me a lot of Tali from ME1. Dad is a big-time leader, and she's just so wide-eyed and full of wonder, ready to leave her mark on a large family of nomads.
That added context gives strong Halo Forerunner/Precursors vibes from its lore way back then. Its kinda funny though how Bungie likes to repeat some narrative bits in their games, from Destiny to Halo to Marathon, Pathway Into Darkness, Oni , even down to their Myth series. Its a fun series of details and absolutly worth getting into that Rabbit Hole of the Bungie-verse. MandaloreGaming got a nice series on Bungie's Pre-Halo era games!
I kinda like the whole signing thing in the collecters edition just everyone we know we wishing us good luck with the Witness. I absolutely love the Smallen's notes those look funny.
Considering Eido was able to find such old, critical, and important knowledge of our enemy, it feels like she should be one of the bright minds among other scholars in the Coaltion, that helps us destroy the Black Fleet. Asher had tried to find an answer to the Pyramids’ weakness, the Vex had none. Mara was able to destroy one, with Eris’ help, but it took much effort, and it seems Mara would have to put herself in a vulnerable position to do it. If the Pyramids somehow remain after the Witness’ death, we will need Eido, among others like Osiris, Quinn, Mara, Ikora, and the Techeauns, to discover a way to destroy the ships. En masse. It’s too risky, and would take too long to send fireteams for each ship.
The ships would basically be null after the Witnesses death. Hell, there are a couple hundred Pyramid's just chilling in Sol right now. It's why the cover art for Into the Light Is such a big deal. Because the Witness is the only person that can control a Pyramid ship since Nezerec and Rhulk are dead. Once the Witness is dead the Black Fleet is no longer a problem.
@@dropkick3024 Unless light fall doesn’t cause the death of the witness, just the concept of them. What if the witness splits up into the original race after a ritual we do? We may be unable to kill them but splintering their power so they aren’t a threat? Possible.
@@Joemama-xw2wy Maybe. The next saga then, or the following episode, could involve the Coalition destroying the Pyramids, and routing the now splintered race, and it’s forces, out of Sol. Or, if the Witness does die, and the Pyramids become inoperable, the ships could just explode en masse without the Witness when they die, or the Pyramids will be vulnerable for us to destroy. But, Bungie seems to be planning the episodes in the direction of a new narrative, where we travel to fight enemies beyond Sol. This being the most likely outcome, we may just be doing a questline or mission, that results in a cutscene in which we destroy the entire Black Fleet en masse. Or they all explode. If the Pyramids remain after the war, Bungie will need to shelf that remaining threat, for later, or conclude the fleet as a lingering threat in the campaign. Or after the campaign. Alternatively, our remaining enemies looking to fill in the power vacuum left by the Witness, will most likely utilize the derelict Pyramids to use their tech against us. If they aren’t destroyed during or after the campaign.
"Greetings Guardians" over top of a clip of the witness raising their hand made me think for a moment that Byf had turned into the Witness. just. "Greetings Guardians, My Name is Byf here and today were going to be witnessing the end of all things and the birth of the Final Shape, this Paracausal Calamity is sponsored by Manscaped"
Interesting that the parallel to the Last City's Consensus, as well as the factions on what the Final Shape is, pretty much mirrors the og grimoire card "The Darkness", where it talks about all of the City's philosophical positions & factions on what the Darkness is or how the Collapse happened!
10:08 goes with the longtime thought of the simulation theory. Ghost Fragment: Vertigo. ASSOCIATIONS: Cabal; Caloris Basin [Mercury]; Crucible; Lord Shaxx; Mercury; Simulation Theory; Vertigo; Vex [u1;01] Nobody knows what this place is. Not “on the record,” anyway. But I was talking to a Warlock the other night and he started rambling on about Mercury and Vex and some mad “quantum-theory, space-time simulation running beneath a randomized pattern of Vex math and meant to gauge Light and... uh... aggressive refractive something-something.” The Monist Position, or the Deflationary Position, considers the Darkness as a technologically sophisticated force, perhaps a post-Singularity intelligence. Adherents invoke information theory or contend that the universe is a simulation, allowing advanced intelligence to gain weakly acausal powers by bending the rules.
My crack theory on this lore is that the [Profusion/Bountiful/Swarm] mentioned by HNW is a previous version of the Hive; another race who took the Worm's bargain, but were ultimately defeated, leading to the Worm Gods being imprisoned in Fundament.
@@edge4266Rhulk contacted them in the deep of fundament and forced them to become the worm gods of the hive, but they already existed beforehand. I wonder if the witness ever created any life, probably only corrupts other life and can’t create its own, hence elevating disciples
It’s funny, in a way, the Witness, while it’s race, could not find any purpose with the Traveler’s light, the Guardains and humanity, did. The Coalition even had a pursuit forming: to ensure Sol lives on, for better or for worse, with any threat we encounter after the war has ended.
So this lore, especially from the first entry, may have jusy revealed the origin of the Black Garden. As well things like the Tree Of Silver Wings, Seeds of Silver Wings, and even the Vex. Very good stuff.
I'm intrigued by the Black Armoury bit, given what little we know of the "creature" and the iirc "petrichor" surrounding its presence. Even if its just added context, having any kind of record from The Collapse is really something.
I want more Eido, like as a mainstay character. Someone you can visit in The Tower, or the Eliksni Quarter being a constant zone you can visit. She's naive, yes.. but I also think part of that is Misraaks' doing. She's also young, at least from our PoV. Who knows Eliksni aging. With that said, I wanna know more about Xenobiology. Eliksni, Cabal and so on. Their aging, when they reach maturity, reproduction etc.. I'd extend that to their society and culture, class/caste systems that may/may not exist, military structure, governance. Give me more.
The only way to do so would be to question them and ask "What is the Final Shape, exactly?" This would cause each and every mind to say what they think is the Final Shape. Therefore, they're connected would be severed or at least weakened at the very least.
@@dropkick3024I love that idea. Makes me think of the whole sphinx and solving a riddle trope in stories. How someone only ever makes it through because they tricked the sphinx
@thefourthhorsemanwithornam9314 Yeah, because something I've learned is that if you question someone's methods and show the issues with how they see things or the flaws in it, it causes them to crumble when trying to find the meaning for it. Like, look at Xivu, we proved the sword logic has its flaws, and the first thing she said was "LIAR ENEMY WORSHIPPER."
@@dropkick3024 granted there are also the many occasions where they’re well versed in what they believe. Like the witness. I think the more likely result would not be that the people fight eachother over what TFS actually is. But that they are all rushing to say their version of and that momentary chaos is enough for us to get the upper hand.
Everyone knows the best way to reach a consensus on an issue is to eliminate the opposing factions, Thus having no one left to oppose your viewpoint. Their civilization really spiraled towards the end there. Which makes sense when your entire people are having an existential crisis, and live a really long time
I'm going to make a claim right here and now...NOTHING here is going to change anything. EVERYONE agrees the lore is incredibly interesting. Even those who have given up on playing it. But until ANY of that interesting LORE makes its way into the game as ACTUAL GAMEPLAY mechanics or concrete story beats or properly built up reveals (vs random exposition dumps via hand drawn "cutscenes" or seasonal NPCs talking AT us), and Bungie STOPS putting the most interesting things into collectors editions like they've been doing for 10 bloody years...things are only going to get worse for this franchise. I'm glad Byf has compelling things to talk about, he's truly a treasure and any community who has him talking about their game should consider themselves lucky for that, because he's a spectacular content creator. But I've said it tons of times...it's not Byf's responsibility to do what Bungie should be making into GAME content. There's enough story in these collectors edition lore books to make Destiny 4, Destiny 5, Destiny 6. Why put ALL this information in here now, when you could keep it close to the chest and make more GAME with it? Especially when the community WANTS Bungie to do that? I'll never know.
Interesting. So the Witness itself is split in major factions. So to sum up, one is convinced they have to help enact TFS, the others want not to intervene as it would make TFS imperfect and a third that thinks itself is the final shape, the individual. I actually really like that idea, as it could explain why the Witness took so much time to enact TFS as it cannot decide as it is split 3 ways. It could also mean that when we could split the witness that some of the precursors may actually move against others. Maybe not be our friends, but also not helping the other Precursors. We might actually make the Witness have an internal conflict to distract while we manage to find a way to defeat it. Also maybe, just maybe once we defeated it we will meet those Precursors and actually get some humanity out of out villain Also can't wait to see "The entire Story of the Light and Dark saga" as a 7 hour video
The first and only collectors edition I've ever bought of anything Destiny-related is one I have no regrets buying. I thought the tower was gonna be my favorite part of it, but I'm low-key enjoying the little scrapbook from Eido and all the kids, human, eliksni, and cabal alike, all cheering us on the most. That was an unexpected bonus in this box and absolutely the most charming part of it.
The one thing that would make this the most badass intro to the new expansion would be all of us that are in the game to jump in the portal together when we are finally able to get past the portal
The fact that players who joined after lightfall will have next to no idea who Eido is unless they looked through lore tabs and RUclips videos from over a year ago. Who’s idea was it to vault seasonal content?
Wow the year book signing for a goodbye is actually such suck idea. Kinda crazy that even though it isn’t a hard ending for the franchise, it really has been 10 whole years
This is some amazing work! A historical moment in Destiny history for sure. However I must note that just like nearing always. When you are nearing the end you start feeling nostalgic about simpler times of Vanilla D1 when it was just us vs different mysterious “evil aliens” and we just started digging up their mysteries and unraveling their secrets.
Please make a video about the exodus yellow!! I found that entry to be super interesting! I wish we had visuals for that, the idea of Rasputin during the collapse just blasting the darkness with no hope, it’s chilling!!!
It’s interesting that you can see that all three of these perspectives in the witness, even if mostly follows one school of thought It talks about delivering salvation and guiding those who serve it. It believes that the universe is fundamentally flawed and must be wiped clean It believes that only a select few are worthy to serve the final shape and those who use the darkness for anything else but the advancement of the final shape are wrong and unworthy
I think that byf gets the goal of the solipsists wrong. Solipsism as a philosophy is basically you are the only person that you know is truly conscious because you can only experience your own consciousness and can’t prove that other people are conscious. Everyone else could be part of a simulation and your are the only person that is real. Because of the nature of their philosophy I think it would be impossible for them to have a shared goal other than hyper-individualism or hyper-selfishness since they believe everyone except for themselves could be fake. Interestingly the discovery of strand would’ve proved the solipsists wrong since it proved that everyone’s consciousness is interconnected and therefore that everyone has a consciousness but strand wasn’t discovered until Lightfall.
@@jira6423 Actually strand is just an aftereffect by the veil and influences the consciousnesses around the veil the most. The Neomuni also witness strand on Neomuna. Strand just shows itself as a river to them rather than as strings - like it does to us. So the witnesses civilization probably saw their interconnectedness. Thanks to the veil. That is probably why the solipsists are not so big in the conversation. They knew throw the veil, that they are wrong.
Just stopping by before watching the video to remind you that you are a great content creator! Keep working hard, we love hearing these stories and learning about the Destiny universe through you.
>Critical Context for the Story's Finale >Only available in texts found in the Collector's Edition, not in the game Welp. Thank goodness for Byf, at least...
I know this is not lore but I am now in tears I was unable to get the collectors edition mech. Ariadne Greece is one of my favourite people in the lore. I’d pay anything to have a book that is embellished with her signature Dinas Emrys dragon
Thank you for making these even though I I haven't played destiny in quite a time it's been so nice to keep up with you. You really have a personality and an air to the channel that keeps me engaged. I hope light fall blows us out of the water this is my favorite story in all of fiction by far
Previous to this video, we knew that the Veil is the source of Strand, a web of consciousness woven together underneath reality, and not too long ago we discovered that the Witness is one being formed from many of a precursor civilisation. So it makes sense that the Precursors used the Veil to weave their minds and bodies together, into one mind and one body.
😎 THE LEGENDARY LOREMASTER BYF I am truly appreciative of this video. Legendary streamers like and others are the reason why I became a streamer in 2015. And before you ask no I am not self-promoting I'm merely expressing my gratitude for being an inspiration. Your lower videos are not only an inspiration but a great source of Intel when it comes to the lower on Destiny as well as other games that you may have explored outside of it thank you very much and I look forward to your future projects to come 😎
Eido over there doing an incredible job! This new knowledge about the Witness and its ancient people is mindblowing, I want to know more! Thanks for sharing the Collector's edition stuff with us Byf!
I imagine defeating The Witness involves separating him. It will most likely weaken him and if we eliminate those we separate, who knows, but the final battle will be a weakened witness, maybe only those that agreed on what their Final Shape would be. Interesting.
You know Eido and Spider had a bit of a commradery with each other during plunder. It's not impossible to think that she asked Spider to tell his bandits to look for any information that could be valuable to her research.
I don't know if I should feel sad for the Precursors or just angry because it really sound like the Penitents made a very panicky decision among themselves and the implications of how that went down is horrific.
it's skewed a little, but the 3 precursor factions make me think of the factions in the tower. Esp since both did a consensus. What're the chances the speaker knew of or was a part of those groups?
things are getting serious lore wise, and it wouldn't be unexpected for some sort of drops with Into the Light, needless to say the time between now and TFS launch are going to be ramping up leading up to the release.
IMO this further solidifies the fact that the witness is NOT the winnower, but that the winnower probably does exist at some deeper, more fundamental level of the destiny universe.
I just received my email about my copy of the collectors edition yesterday, this makes me even more excited to get my hands on it in the coming weeks 😊
BYF! I figured something out with the Collectors Edition! Use the wrapper that the ramen coupons came in as a key. Go to page 32 in the lore book and line up the word hope. I came up with "Prune though doubts. Thoughts flicker. Glimmering Consensus believe Nihilsts." It felt really good to figure that out. Lemme know what you think 😄
popping in after being gone for years, love byf for doing these videos and hate bungie for making a channel like this necessary.. just makes me sad how they hide arguably the best part of this universe so efficiently..
I find it interesting how the disparate factions among the Precursors can be seen in the personality of the Witness itself. At different times we've seen it be destructive, arrogant, manipulative, compassionate, understanding. Each disciple receives different orders, they're told a different version of the Final Shape, they have different tasks that do not always conform to a single final outcome. The personalities within the Witness are still exerting portents of dominance, a different direction for each step, despite the shared end-goal of Perfection.
i wish it was 10 years ago, i miss not knowing any of this, the nostalgia of mystery...i want to relearn this all over again. i dont want it to end the PEREPECTIVES of destiny 2 and that "views" of an idea matter
The final raid encounter will involve us kneeling down and saying “only the penitent man will pass” as we cross a hidden bridge and drink from Calus’ chalice and slay the witness…
God i love your videos but im ashamed to say i watch them as i go to sleep not because they are boring but becaue i have watched you for so long now i find them soothing
I want more than anything for byf to get his own cannon character in destiny if not in the actual game than just a mention in the lore about a wise man/guardian who spreads story's about the past
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
18:52
This is it, I'm calling it right now.
This is how we defeat the Witness, by exploiting the fact that not everyone in the Precursor civilization wanted to be merged together, or even agree on what the Final Shape should be. If the Light is chaos, then breaking up the "perfect order" of the Witness has to be a key in defeating it. Especially if it's being highlighted here.
also with Bait and Switch RL
Since the travel seems to be making memories and thought into reality inside it then perhaps we can use that to interact or free trapped ones inside the witness. Cause this enough and we could use the chaos to kill the witness or even split them and have a powerful ally in the fight against them
Nah we’re just gonna beat the shit out of it
Yeah, you'll have to get a buff called "emboldened dissention" or something to grant a damage phase. 😂
It'll be like that one boss in Sonic 2 where every time you hit him, a little bubble flies off and you have to pop it and eventually he's got no bubbles left to protect him.
as long as the precursors didnt leave any dust around that could get corrupted... wait a minute
If you know, you know...and I'm scared.
AAAWOOLOOLOOLOOLOO
Wait I don't get it
If I had a nickel for every time a civilization known as the Precursors create something that threatens to destroy the universe I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
@@Sunfirea in Halo there were also precursors who when they passed on turned into dust that got corrupted over time to become the flood super cell
I like how mithraaks handwriting is so clean compared to the other eliksni, its small but shows how well hes adapted to his situation and ontop of that how good he is as a leader showing his ability to learn new skills from another culture
Thank you for making these videos so that people who don’t have the collectors edition can still experience this lore.
I was coming into the comments to makes this exact comment.
I'm excited to hear the lore
It should be in the game where all players now this. That just show how is bungie unable tell the story.
Also one of the most important aspects of this lore is that the precursor referred to as RS bailed before the Witness's creation. THEY MIGHT STILL BE OUT THERE. That's HUGE.
Also the Vex were created by and served the precursor civilization, so that's a thing and gives us some hints as to why the Vex will apparently be relevant next year.
I think the commentary from eido says the log was recovered from a derelict and ancient pyramid by a wolf ketch some time during the journey to sol, so that ancient pyramid that is unaligned to the witness is still out there somewhere unless it was claimed and folded into the witness pyramid fleet at some point
Vex will become Reapers of Destiny universe, calling it now.
I thought the Vex originated from the Flower Game and then spilled out into the universe when it was formed? Then again, Bungie basically said the Flower Game was a metaphor so they can rewrite lore as they see fit, so who the hell knows.
@@samvimes9510That's one interpretation of the Unveiling lore book. However, we STILL don't have any definitive answers about its authenticity, plus, the fact that the book itself says the Garden-before-time was a metaphor, means that the truth of the Vex being the pattern is basically unknowable.
I think the Vex might be an "echo" of that pattern; they can't simulate paracausality, and are very bad at interacting with it. It makes sense that they'd be less susceptible to paracausality if they were never MEANT to interact with it. But, as I said, we can only speculate.
The vex was not made by the precursors 😂
I'm so happy that Eido was chosen as the one who came up with the book. It is a really interesting character with potential for great content not just seasonal stories in the future, specially for the relations between Eliksni and humanity, which is one of my favourite plots as of right now. And also it is really on character.
She reminds me a lot of Tali from ME1. Dad is a big-time leader, and she's just so wide-eyed and full of wonder, ready to leave her mark on a large family of nomads.
@@gibster9624 Now that you mention it they also sound quite similar.. xD
she'll make a good successor to Variks.
@@gibster9624tali best girl
That added context gives strong Halo Forerunner/Precursors vibes from its lore way back then. Its kinda funny though how Bungie likes to repeat some narrative bits in their games, from Destiny to Halo to Marathon, Pathway Into Darkness, Oni , even down to their Myth series. Its a fun series of details and absolutly worth getting into that Rabbit Hole of the Bungie-verse. MandaloreGaming got a nice series on Bungie's Pre-Halo era games!
It’s the secret sauce of all of their narrative designs.
I kinda like the whole signing thing in the collecters edition just everyone we know we wishing us good luck with the Witness. I absolutely love the Smallen's notes those look funny.
Considering Eido was able to find such old, critical, and important knowledge of our enemy, it feels like she should be one of the bright minds among other scholars in the Coaltion, that helps us destroy the Black Fleet. Asher had tried to find an answer to the Pyramids’ weakness, the Vex had none. Mara was able to destroy one, with Eris’ help, but it took much effort, and it seems Mara would have to put herself in a vulnerable position to do it. If the Pyramids somehow remain after the Witness’ death, we will need Eido, among others like Osiris, Quinn, Mara, Ikora, and the Techeauns, to discover a way to destroy the ships. En masse. It’s too risky, and would take too long to send fireteams for each ship.
The ships would basically be null after the Witnesses death. Hell, there are a couple hundred Pyramid's just chilling in Sol right now. It's why the cover art for Into the Light Is such a big deal. Because the Witness is the only person that can control a Pyramid ship since Nezerec and Rhulk are dead. Once the Witness is dead the Black Fleet is no longer a problem.
@@dropkick3024 Unless light fall doesn’t cause the death of the witness, just the concept of them. What if the witness splits up into the original race after a ritual we do? We may be unable to kill them but splintering their power so they aren’t a threat? Possible.
@@Joemama-xw2wy Maybe. The next saga then, or the following episode, could involve the Coalition destroying the Pyramids, and routing the now splintered race, and it’s forces, out of Sol. Or, if the Witness does die, and the Pyramids become inoperable, the ships could just explode en masse without the Witness when they die, or the Pyramids will be vulnerable for us to destroy. But, Bungie seems to be planning the episodes in the direction of a new narrative, where we travel to fight enemies beyond Sol. This being the most likely outcome, we may just be doing a questline or mission, that results in a cutscene in which we destroy the entire Black Fleet en masse. Or they all explode. If the Pyramids remain after the war, Bungie will need to shelf that remaining threat, for later, or conclude the fleet as a lingering threat in the campaign. Or after the campaign. Alternatively, our remaining enemies looking to fill in the power vacuum left by the Witness, will most likely utilize the derelict Pyramids to use their tech against us. If they aren’t destroyed during or after the campaign.
I have pictured Byf in my head as someone with a tinfoil hat going “hey kid wanna hear some Destiny lore.”
Years later you'll find yourself in a dark alley, scratching your neck as you speak up to a man in a trenchcoat.
"You got any of that....*lore*?"
With a fucking beautiful voice
"Greetings Guardians" over top of a clip of the witness raising their hand made me think for a moment that Byf had turned into the Witness.
just.
"Greetings Guardians, My Name is Byf here and today were going to be witnessing the end of all things and the birth of the Final Shape, this Paracausal Calamity is sponsored by Manscaped"
Not the manscaped reference 😂
"Shave away all of the suffering and pain of the universe with the new and improved world scaper 30.0, a cleaner cut than any other before."
Dps lasts 3-5 business days after purchase
Nah, you know witty would be sponsored by raid
@@reddbird8599 Call now to receive a free godroll Crux Termination IV!
Babe wake up new Byf vid just dropped
Im awake, im awake, damn lesgoooo
Yes dear 😨
Babyf
-2
@remy_fr7359🤡🤡🤡
I've stopped playing destiny, but thank you for continuing to cover lore through thick and thin. I really do enjoy the stories.
The Collection Edition reveal I've been waiting for all day.
Interesting that the parallel to the Last City's Consensus, as well as the factions on what the Final Shape is, pretty much mirrors the og grimoire card "The Darkness", where it talks about all of the City's philosophical positions & factions on what the Darkness is or how the Collapse happened!
10:08 goes with the longtime thought of the simulation theory. Ghost Fragment: Vertigo. ASSOCIATIONS: Cabal; Caloris Basin [Mercury]; Crucible; Lord Shaxx; Mercury; Simulation Theory; Vertigo; Vex
[u1;01] Nobody knows what this place is. Not “on the record,” anyway. But I was talking to a Warlock the other night and he started rambling on about Mercury and Vex and some mad “quantum-theory, space-time simulation running beneath a randomized pattern of Vex math and meant to gauge Light and... uh... aggressive refractive something-something.”
The Monist Position, or the Deflationary Position, considers the Darkness as a technologically sophisticated force, perhaps a post-Singularity intelligence. Adherents invoke information theory or contend that the universe is a simulation, allowing advanced intelligence to gain weakly acausal powers by bending the rules.
My crack theory on this lore is that the [Profusion/Bountiful/Swarm] mentioned by HNW is a previous version of the Hive; another race who took the Worm's bargain, but were ultimately defeated, leading to the Worm Gods being imprisoned in Fundament.
isn’t there more that says The Witness created The Worm Gods?
@@edge4266Rhulk contacted them in the deep of fundament and forced them to become the worm gods of the hive, but they already existed beforehand. I wonder if the witness ever created any life, probably only corrupts other life and can’t create its own, hence elevating disciples
It’s funny, in a way, the Witness, while it’s race, could not find any purpose with the Traveler’s light, the Guardains and humanity, did. The Coalition even had a pursuit forming: to ensure Sol lives on, for better or for worse, with any threat we encounter after the war has ended.
That’s why it the traveller left them
So this lore, especially from the first entry, may have jusy revealed the origin of the Black Garden. As well things like the Tree Of Silver Wings, Seeds of Silver Wings, and even the Vex.
Very good stuff.
I'm intrigued by the Black Armoury bit, given what little we know of the "creature" and the iirc "petrichor" surrounding its presence.
Even if its just added context, having any kind of record from The Collapse is really something.
I just got the email saying mine will arrive in 2 weeks. Ugh the anticipation.
That's a weird sight... a Byf video with less than a million views! Glad to be here so early.
I want more Eido, like as a mainstay character. Someone you can visit in The Tower, or the Eliksni Quarter being a constant zone you can visit.
She's naive, yes.. but I also think part of that is Misraaks' doing. She's also young, at least from our PoV. Who knows Eliksni aging.
With that said, I wanna know more about Xenobiology. Eliksni, Cabal and so on. Their aging, when they reach maturity, reproduction etc.. I'd extend that to their society and culture, class/caste systems that may/may not exist, military structure, governance.
Give me more.
So to defeat the Witness, we need to undo the merge that happened using the Veil.
Yeah but how we can’t just bring the whole veil to the pale heart to unmerge them
The only way to do so would be to question them and ask "What is the Final Shape, exactly?" This would cause each and every mind to say what they think is the Final Shape. Therefore, they're connected would be severed or at least weakened at the very least.
@@dropkick3024I love that idea. Makes me think of the whole sphinx and solving a riddle trope in stories. How someone only ever makes it through because they tricked the sphinx
@thefourthhorsemanwithornam9314 Yeah, because something I've learned is that if you question someone's methods and show the issues with how they see things or the flaws in it, it causes them to crumble when trying to find the meaning for it. Like, look at Xivu, we proved the sword logic has its flaws, and the first thing she said was "LIAR ENEMY WORSHIPPER."
@@dropkick3024 granted there are also the many occasions where they’re well versed in what they believe. Like the witness. I think the more likely result would not be that the people fight eachother over what TFS actually is. But that they are all rushing to say their version of and that momentary chaos is enough for us to get the upper hand.
Everyone knows the best way to reach a consensus on an issue is to eliminate the opposing factions, Thus having no one left to oppose your viewpoint.
Their civilization really spiraled towards the end there. Which makes sense when your entire people are having an existential crisis, and live a really long time
I'm going to make a claim right here and now...NOTHING here is going to change anything.
EVERYONE agrees the lore is incredibly interesting. Even those who have given up on playing it. But until ANY of that interesting LORE makes its way into the game as ACTUAL GAMEPLAY mechanics or concrete story beats or properly built up reveals (vs random exposition dumps via hand drawn "cutscenes" or seasonal NPCs talking AT us), and Bungie STOPS putting the most interesting things into collectors editions like they've been doing for 10 bloody years...things are only going to get worse for this franchise.
I'm glad Byf has compelling things to talk about, he's truly a treasure and any community who has him talking about their game should consider themselves lucky for that, because he's a spectacular content creator. But I've said it tons of times...it's not Byf's responsibility to do what Bungie should be making into GAME content.
There's enough story in these collectors edition lore books to make Destiny 4, Destiny 5, Destiny 6. Why put ALL this information in here now, when you could keep it close to the chest and make more GAME with it? Especially when the community WANTS Bungie to do that?
I'll never know.
Interesting. So the Witness itself is split in major factions. So to sum up, one is convinced they have to help enact TFS, the others want not to intervene as it would make TFS imperfect and a third that thinks itself is the final shape, the individual. I actually really like that idea, as it could explain why the Witness took so much time to enact TFS as it cannot decide as it is split 3 ways. It could also mean that when we could split the witness that some of the precursors may actually move against others. Maybe not be our friends, but also not helping the other Precursors. We might actually make the Witness have an internal conflict to distract while we manage to find a way to defeat it. Also maybe, just maybe once we defeated it we will meet those Precursors and actually get some humanity out of out villain
Also can't wait to see "The entire Story of the Light and Dark saga" as a 7 hour video
The autograph book is just heart warming.
The first and only collectors edition I've ever bought of anything Destiny-related is one I have no regrets buying. I thought the tower was gonna be my favorite part of it, but I'm low-key enjoying the little scrapbook from Eido and all the kids, human, eliksni, and cabal alike, all cheering us on the most. That was an unexpected bonus in this box and absolutely the most charming part of it.
Byf has new competition with Eido
Unbeatable duo
Holy shit there are 3 factions, 3 points of a triangle
Pyramid, doc.
The one thing that would make this the most badass intro to the new expansion would be all of us that are in the game to jump in the portal together when we are finally able to get past the portal
The fact that players who joined after lightfall will have next to no idea who Eido is unless they looked through lore tabs and RUclips videos from over a year ago. Who’s idea was it to vault seasonal content?
8:25 my own exodus ship W
Wow the year book signing for a goodbye is actually such suck idea. Kinda crazy that even though it isn’t a hard ending for the franchise, it really has been 10 whole years
Were you supposed to write '"such a nice idea"? Cuz I'm not sure you were saying "such suck idea"
@@Krisarsprobably sick idea
All the lore in the world isn't going to undo how derpy and unthreatening the witness looks.
The Virgin Witness vs the Chad Man in the Wall.
When Byf is going to no short lengths to compliment you on your scribe work, you know you're really good.
This is some amazing work! A historical moment in Destiny history for sure.
However I must note that just like nearing always. When you are nearing the end you start feeling nostalgic about simpler times of Vanilla D1 when it was just us vs different mysterious “evil aliens” and we just started digging up their mysteries and unraveling their secrets.
This is perfect I just got off work I’m home and chillin then I get to watch a byf video
Just finished watching Paul Tassi’s video and was praying you posted this already lmao
It's going to be an interesting couple of months between now and June. Cannot wait for what's coming!
Byf, THAT TITLE HAS ME GRIPPED ALREADY. Let’s GO
Okay but which Byf video is the grippiest tho
Imma grip you
@@bakatraitlessDynasty
It has been so many years, but the way he says, “Per Audasia ad Astra, I’ll see you Starside,” still gives me chills.
Penitent-Mantle of Responsibility(Marathon)
Nihilists-Prime Directive(Star Wars)
Solipsists-Reason of Musubi(SMT3)
In summary by the sounds of it.
You mean Star Trek for prime directive.
Is there anyway to just see the complete pages online? Lore talk is great and all but I feel I need a transcript to be able to absorb it all
Pretty mind blown from Scribe Eido's Galaxy-brain investigation of the Pyramids.
Please make a video about the exodus yellow!! I found that entry to be super interesting! I wish we had visuals for that, the idea of Rasputin during the collapse just blasting the darkness with no hope, it’s chilling!!!
I have heard of Exodus Yellow before.
Where have I heard of it before, though?
It’s interesting that you can see that all three of these perspectives in the witness, even if mostly follows one school of thought
It talks about delivering salvation and guiding those who serve it.
It believes that the universe is fundamentally flawed and must be wiped clean
It believes that only a select few are worthy to serve the final shape and those who use the darkness for anything else but the advancement of the final shape are wrong and unworthy
I think that byf gets the goal of the solipsists wrong. Solipsism as a philosophy is basically you are the only person that you know is truly conscious because you can only experience your own consciousness and can’t prove that other people are conscious. Everyone else could be part of a simulation and your are the only person that is real.
Because of the nature of their philosophy I think it would be impossible for them to have a shared goal other than hyper-individualism or hyper-selfishness since they believe everyone except for themselves could be fake.
Interestingly the discovery of strand would’ve proved the solipsists wrong since it proved that everyone’s consciousness is interconnected and therefore that everyone has a consciousness but strand wasn’t discovered until Lightfall.
@@jira6423 Actually strand is just an aftereffect by the veil and influences the consciousnesses around the veil the most. The Neomuni also witness strand on Neomuna. Strand just shows itself as a river to them rather than as strings - like it does to us. So the witnesses civilization probably saw their interconnectedness. Thanks to the veil. That is probably why the solipsists are not so big in the conversation. They knew throw the veil, that they are wrong.
i wish these collectors edition lorebooks could be their own store item. Would love a collection of all of them.
Just stopping by before watching the video to remind you that you are a great content creator! Keep working hard, we love hearing these stories and learning about the Destiny universe through you.
>Critical Context for the Story's Finale
>Only available in texts found in the Collector's Edition, not in the game
Welp. Thank goodness for Byf, at least...
I know this is not lore but I am now in tears I was unable to get the collectors edition mech. Ariadne Greece is one of my favourite people in the lore. I’d pay anything to have a book that is embellished with her signature Dinas Emrys dragon
Thank you for making these even though I I haven't played destiny in quite a time it's been so nice to keep up with you. You really have a personality and an air to the channel that keeps me engaged. I hope light fall blows us out of the water this is my favorite story in all of fiction by far
Lord Byf has returned with a thousand riches ….thank you my Lord
Previous to this video, we knew that the Veil is the source of Strand, a web of consciousness woven together underneath reality, and not too long ago we discovered that the Witness is one being formed from many of a precursor civilisation. So it makes sense that the Precursors used the Veil to weave their minds and bodies together, into one mind and one body.
😎 THE LEGENDARY LOREMASTER BYF I am truly appreciative of this video. Legendary streamers like and others are the reason why I became a streamer in 2015. And before you ask no I am not self-promoting I'm merely expressing my gratitude for being an inspiration. Your lower videos are not only an inspiration but a great source of Intel when it comes to the lower on Destiny as well as other games that you may have explored outside of it thank you very much and I look forward to your future projects to come 😎
Interesting how you can definitely see the three distinct ideologies mixing together in what dialogue we have so far from the Witness.
Eido over there doing an incredible job! This new knowledge about the Witness and its ancient people is mindblowing, I want to know more! Thanks for sharing the Collector's edition stuff with us Byf!
I imagine defeating The Witness involves separating him. It will most likely weaken him and if we eliminate those we separate, who knows, but the final battle will be a weakened witness, maybe only those that agreed on what their Final Shape would be. Interesting.
It's mind blowing how the devs are still on it with Destiny 2 after so many years its so great to see and brings a tear to my eye
Perhaps for HNW you could adapt a term from Halo? Lifeworker or Lifeshaper
All this should be in-game cutscenes
Fascinating. We are excited for you to continue to flesh this all out.
You know Eido and Spider had a bit of a commradery with each other during plunder. It's not impossible to think that she asked Spider to tell his bandits to look for any information that could be valuable to her research.
Out of 10yrs I only got one collectors edition and I'm so glad it's this one
The title of this video makes you think that only with collector's edition you can understand the meaning 😮
Great vid. Seems on the surface of it that the Witness’s view is kinda a blend of the two philosophies. Perfection by way of a kind of nihilism?
Tbh it sounds more like the solipsist’s view, that there is only one that can determine the final shape (them/The Witness)
I don't know if I should feel sad for the Precursors or just angry because it really sound like the Penitents made a very panicky decision among themselves and the implications of how that went down is horrific.
it's skewed a little, but the 3 precursor factions make me think of the factions in the tower. Esp since both did a consensus.
What're the chances the speaker knew of or was a part of those groups?
things are getting serious lore wise, and it wouldn't be unexpected for some sort of drops with Into the Light, needless to say the time between now and TFS launch are going to be ramping up leading up to the release.
“RS & HNW, That is my first port of call” I love Byf he’s so magnificently British! 😂♥️✨
IMO this further solidifies the fact that the witness is NOT the winnower, but that the winnower probably does exist at some deeper, more fundamental level of the destiny universe.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of these videos
The bit about The Witness creating the Skrank Gang was neat, maybe you'll finally fulfil your promise and talk about them now?
I just received my email about my copy of the collectors edition yesterday, this makes me even more excited to get my hands on it in the coming weeks 😊
im really excited to learn more about the witness and his people in more videos
“I repeat, this is NOT the traveler” proceeds to summarize the travelers lore as far as we know it
Between these videos and glimpses of collectors boxes I am very hyped.
I can't wait to read my copy of the CE. This is some truly exciting stuff, and I hope the Final Shape can mirror that excitement as well.
Byf should make a collaboration lore video with Eido's voice actress, that would be great!
BYF! I figured something out with the Collectors Edition! Use the wrapper that the ramen coupons came in as a key. Go to page 32 in the lore book and line up the word hope. I came up with "Prune though doubts. Thoughts flicker. Glimmering Consensus believe Nihilsts." It felt really good to figure that out. Lemme know what you think 😄
Only way I’m making it through work post St Paddy’s day is new Byf
there is nothing better than ending a day with byf narrated lore video
popping in after being gone for years, love byf for doing these videos and hate bungie for making a channel like this necessary.. just makes me sad how they hide arguably the best part of this universe so efficiently..
I find it interesting how the disparate factions among the Precursors can be seen in the personality of the Witness itself. At different times we've seen it be destructive, arrogant, manipulative, compassionate, understanding. Each disciple receives different orders, they're told a different version of the Final Shape, they have different tasks that do not always conform to a single final outcome. The personalities within the Witness are still exerting portents of dominance, a different direction for each step, despite the shared end-goal of Perfection.
Hope some of the Precursers survive, like if we break the Witness. The Penitent sounded nice before they started killing everyone.
i wish it was 10 years ago, i miss not knowing any of this, the nostalgia of mystery...i want to relearn this all over again. i dont want it to end
the PEREPECTIVES of destiny 2 and that "views" of an idea matter
Right off the bat, a metal replica of the Tower.
The Solipsists seem like folk who say “Your individual will shall guide you to the Final Shape”
You're telling me that the witness is just a proto-gravemind that can fit through a door?
Oh.. oh god...
Excellent vid -looking forward to your future vids since -to me-the lore is the most important part of Destiny😁
Entelechy means a lot more than “someone’s defining purpose or role” 5:05
After reading the book… man I don’t think I’ve ever understood and been more terrified of the witness.
Hope the lore in the physical book finds its way into the game.
That autograph book makes me really sad that I missed out on this collector’s edition too.
Its still available to order. $175
The final raid encounter will involve us kneeling down and saying “only the penitent man will pass” as we cross a hidden bridge and drink from Calus’ chalice and slay the witness…
God i love your videos but im ashamed to say i watch them as i go to sleep not because they are boring but becaue i have watched you for so long now i find them soothing
I want more than anything for byf to get his own cannon character in destiny if not in the actual game than just a mention in the lore about a wise man/guardian who spreads story's about the past
My excitement for the near future and your next videos in immense :)
I can’t help but draw parallels with the witness and precursors to neon genesis evan gallion, and the concept of instrumentality.