@thomasohare The reason Judokas dislike BJJ is because the Gracies and BJJ students rarely give credit to Judo. They say anything done on the ground was founded by BJJ. They don't tell anyone that the person who taught the Gracies was a Judoka. Can a BBJ black belt belt defeat a Judo black belt? Sure. Can a Judo black belt defeat a BJJ? Yes, again. You made a good point until your last paragraph. Helio Gracie lost to Masahiko Kimura but they call it a "moral victory."
*The reason Judokas dislike BJJ is because the Gracies and BJJ students rarely give credit to Judo. They say anything done on the ground was founded by BJJ. They don't tell anyone that the person who taught the Gracies was a Judoka.* The only people who come across as anti-Gracie whether it's justified or not are usually people who dont train or are mediocre Judokas who look for confirmation bias. I doubt most Judokas give a shit. For example, I find it peculiar that the most vocal and strong critics tend to also more likely to believe in false rumors against the Gracies such as Yoshida beating Royce in the first match. *Can a BBJ black belt belt defeat a Judo black belt? Sure. Can a Judo black belt defeat a BJJ? Yes, again* The "It's not the art it's the fighter" dogma is a false argument that's usually used to intellectually cop out discussions comparing different arts. But for the sake of the argument. Sure, Judo black belts have been recorded to defeat verifiable BJJ black belts, but those tend to be very infrequent and those outliers can be easily explained by certain factors like lineage, training quality, etc.
I think it's odd that you accuse people of intellectual dishonesty and then go on to say that Yoshida beating Royce Gracie is a rumour. Yoshida was dominant and Royce was briefly unconcious (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royce_Gracie#Bouts_with_Yoshida). Now Royce didn't lose because the ref didn't have the authority to stop the fight? Yoshida wasn't in dominant position about to end the contest? Btw. Yoshida is quite bad on the ground for a japanese olympic medallist. During the second fight Royce was dominant. So why do you think that is? The answer is quite simple, it is the ruleset. But, but MMA. A lot of Judo players don't give a shit about MMA. Everything that is forbidden would be utilized in a real situation by Judoka (guard slam, 12-6 ellbow, stomping an opponent on the ground, piledriver). Furthermore, the attire clearly takes a bit to get used to for Judoka with the mouthpiece, groin protector, light gloves and shorts that you are not allowed to grab. Lastly, Judo players need to change their mentality from actively trying not to injure their opponents, to injury as a desired outcome. BJJ is a good sport/art and I like emphasis on guard positions. Meanwhile, quite a few of the creative techniques only exist due to piss poor execution of previous techniques. Likewise, positions like x-guard are only usefull within the BJJ ruleset. Judo is conservative in that techniques have to be sucessful at the highest level, before people broadly utilize them. BJJ is progressive in that people focus more on creating their own style and then figure out what is succesful later on. If you actually want to compare two martial arts then you'll need to come up with some sort of objectively neutral/realistic rules and test your assumpitions statistically. But that's really hard, should competitors wear regular clothes? Long pants and jacket. Long pants and t-shirt? No gloves? I don't think you have any answers to those issues and your perception of outliers are based upon your biases (just like mine and everybody elses). I think it is pointless to argue about which exercise is "better". Go to any competitive Judo club within Judo powerhouses like Japan, South Korea, France, Russia, Brazil,... and you'll soon change your perception of Judo. For the practicality: Judo is more affordable. If you live in the United States, then I would go with BJJ because the quality of the teaching is superior. If you live anywhere else in the world, then I would go with Judo (even in Brazil, unless you have a Gracie dojo next door). If I were a late beginner, I would probably go with BJJ because you can still become a decent competitor in it. With Judo, you will never get to a high level unless you start during your childhood. Finally, Judo is harsher on the body and requires a higher degree of physical fitness.
I think calling it Brazilian Jujitsu is somewhat off, too. Given it doesn’t resemble Jujitsu in any way, apart from some of the groundwork, which came to judo and then “BJJ”, from Jujitsu. Often victories are claimed by BJJ guys over others, when they are fighting in the BJJ style and rules. Somewhat of an advantage... Having said all that, though, I do admire the groundwork moves of BJJ.
@hooverbaglegs BJJ is Judo that focuses more on the Newaza (ground fighting) aspects of judo than the standing (tachiwaza) aspects. Look up Kosen Judo when you get a chance.
It's good to see these techniques from judo because it shows that judokas also have good Ne Waza techniques. Where did you got your hands on this video. Thanks for posting!
@asdfero you are right, that's 100% correct. It's not actually finding a newaza academy, it's finding a Judo academy that emphasizes 50% stand up and 50% ground grappling is hard .. many USA dojos practice 75% up and 25% ground ... that's wrong but the major influence of BJJ ground grappling has definitely plaid a major role in "waking" up many dojos through out the country into practicing more ground grappling.
search Kimura and Helio fight and it shows one of the best Judokas in the world fighting Helio Gracie and the Judoka breaks his arm in the fight and even knock him out for a few seconds.
dont needm my former sensei Hirata kanae from Kosen Judo school, told me in person the fight between kimura and helio gracie. Hirata sensei was kimura friend and sparring partner back in the days. do I need to say more.
Would it be more effective to take the back with the beginning stages of this sweep? With your opponents arm across his body and your hand on his belt, can't you just bring your hips out and pull his belt ending up in back control? That is my favorite thing to do, but I always try it in closed guard, I've never tried it like this.
@BlackShinobiShozoku Yeah no outside influence. Tell me again what characters you use to write jujutsu and where they came from. Also the concepts of ju and aiki exist in all grappling, explicitly or not. Any high level grappler develops a 'feel' for where the opponents strength is directed and can work around it instead of against it. But it's a null point anyhow since grappling pre-dates any culture or civilization.
doubt it; Kano Sensei and his students put together a lot of the judo techniques and developed them through randori; for example harai goshi hane goshi uchimata ucimata kaeshi and sukashi; are not these all modern developments, progression of expertise as a result of randori, not kata as was drilled before judo.
Judo originated from, Jujitsu, JJ originated in japan during the feudal ages so soldiers could still defend themselves with out a weapon in combat, least they be disarmed, Judo was functionally formed in the 19th century as a combative sport, based off JJ. Judo literally translates to "The Gentle Way" Both are excellent forms of Martial arts neither better nor worse than the other. Rules are what make the arts different, not the function
@Football10Fan Royce Gracie lost to Yoshida in their first meeting, but couldn't admit it and complained and displayed very poor sportsmanship. Later Royce was disqualified for a match with Sakura because of a banned substance found in testing, say reports. It's just about giving credit where credit is do. Anyone can beat anyone, it is just about being a good sport about it. The Gracies are not the most likeable when it comes to things like that and by extension BJJ.
Royce did not lose to Yoshida. It was a premature stoppage so their complaint was completely justified. Here's a video debunking that myth propagated by anti-Gracie/BJJ critics and fanatics like you: ruclips.net/video/JNboKnaI4H0/видео.html None of everything you said has anything to do with giving credit. That's called a red herring fallacy.
this is why i always say judo and bjj are different sports, but the same art. i HATE judo IJF rules right now, so i go to bjj tourneys until rules are better. now granted stances are different and a few other things, but this is because of the rules. my judo club doesnt care about the rules. learn leg locks, learn illegal throws.. butterfly sweeps ect. but current judo rules do not allow for judo to show what it actually is! the olympics are the problem :(
@@francisbugarin4206 Find an old school Judo, most of the old school teach ground game to some extent. Maybe not as good as BJJ Blackbelt but if you have good instructor that know deep knowledge of Newaza, you will be atleast at Blue or Purplebelt level in BJJ. If not train both.
Amazing how many judo guys hate BJJ, I started in Judo but I let it because prefer BJJ and believe it or not even in the same techniques there are little details and most Judo schools will never defeat top world BJJ schools on the ground, being the time they practice one of themost logic reasons, they won't let Tachiwaza to do more ground. Kashiwazaki is the man anyway, beatiful Tomoe Nague.
Why so close mind??? In places like Brasil is usual see people training in both sports even if this technique is in BJJ with other name who cares, Judo wasn"t the first one, nobody knows for sure where the techniques come from. I did one year of Judo and it helped me a lot now in BJJ, both are great arts.
@ChinaHoovers LOL....funny, LMAO...cheeky....you don't have to look far into BJJ (um...the name) to get a hint of where it's from...yet guys are so surprised that we practice BJJ techniques like armbars when they visit my judo dojo...to their credit, the marketing package was successful indeed
Very different; Carlos Gracie is a student of one of Kano shihans best (Maeda.) He brought randori to jujitsu, so called it judo. Gracie copied the prewar style, and was a high level judoka before breaking with his teacher/s and going his own pathway. Commerce attitude is vastly different; and the lies and half truths on his first promotional videos could only be described as inflammatory and disrespectful from the top. Causing fights on a beach and filming them...to make a point, dodgey.
that right friend, money talks!..... Royce and Company backs in 80´s want challenge Gokor Haystan grappling, but some one warn royce not to fight him, gracie was scare about this guys! Bas Rutten, Gokor Chivycian challenge rickson and Royce gracie, but gracie never took the fight!
and also Helio Gracie lost to famous Judoka legend Kimura in Brazil, Kimura broke his arm and because he was so ignorant Helio wanted to carry on with a broken arm, they cant take loosin those Gracies and everything they know comes from either Judo or Jui Jutsu, all they've done is call it brazillian Jui Jitsu, they're frauds.
It's old judo .. or just a different part of the full judo curriculum. of course brazilians have brought a good sporting competitive attitude and dedication to practice ... like with football ... but didnt "invent" it. Google "George Mehdi judo" "M. Tripp judo history" It's japanese judo practiced a certain way is all. A tactical and trraining emphasis on newaza. it is still practiced this way in some dojos in Japan.
people still have blinkers on when it comes to the ground game, their lack of knowledge on a true dominate ground game, is not BJJ. what would have happen if Gracie placed judo players in early UFC when they were promoting BJJ, instead of not accepting many judo applications from around the world, anyone could see, boxing and most stand up arts would not win against BJJ,funny that not one judo players who had any real titles was ever accepted in UFC, unitll now,and look whats happen, judo wins
I dont understand all the BJJ hate either, both are awesome arts and basically two sides to the same coin, they could both learn a huge amount from each other. BUT for all the BJJ haters out there, name me 3 kosen players that have been successful in MMA compared to the dozens of BJJ guys. A good competitive BJJ black belt would tear these kosen guys to pieces, and there are 100s of good competitive BJJ black belts.
Thomas O'Hare Kosen Judo is practiced in only 7 universities in Japan that ranges from the age of high schoolers to college students, as well as the instructors... BJJ is practiced all over the globe in many countries... So of course the talent pool will be greater if BJJ is practiced more widely. 3 well known Kosen judokas: 1. Masahiko Kimura 2. Yuki Nakai 3. Shinya Aoki One of the best is also Koji Komuro.
Yep, but I don"t get mad anymore, when my old partners judocas ask me why I haven"t go to Judo since January 2008 I said: AH now I "m doing BJJ Blasphemy!!!! That is just a Judo copy and BLA BLA BLA . I don"t care , I will always respect Judo but I enjoy BJJ and Grappling muche more, that"s all.
Carlos and Helio Gracie are not Judoka, Those people have been copy and lerning from others style for years and making for them self big money and tell lies to their own student. I´ve spoke with one former Brasilian Jiu jitsu black belt, this guy told me, back in 1980´s Royce Gracie challenge on japanese Karate master for Okinawa " Goju Ryu style" the match went bad for Royce Gracie got broken 4 ribs with only one kick, Royce gracie lost the fight. 1984 - 1986.
you do realize that judo isn't original either right? oh noes, Kano assimilated a bunch of techniques and adapted them into his own system, doesn't sound like the Gracies at all.. I highly doubt anyone's trying to take credit for coming up with the techniques, judo included. Adaptation into a new system is a completely different thing
You guys act like every ground move was invented in judo or jiujitsu. Grappling has been around since before man. The original jiujitsukas stole them from somewhere, developed and renamed them, just as Kano did with judo. And now you get pissed because BJJ:ers took techniques and developed further on them and renamed them. Lol, butthurt hypocrites.
We just improved the newaza, most of bjj techniques are just improvments, nothing new. The great inovation by Helio Gracie was the closed guard, something that practiced in the early XX century. Of course, if you get modern jiu-jitsu techniques such as de la riva guard and many other, it is brand new techniques that you won't get similar in judo.
So now judo people take BJJ created techniques and give it out as if they invented it themselves... If not gracies there would be no ground game ANYWHERE! Judo/karate guys ( same thing really) go back to your board breaking and bruce lee movies.
Kashiwazaki is great. I met and trained with him in 1988 and as a gift he gave me a signed copy of his book! I still have it.
Is he as good with good as without gi ?
Ja, some people think judo doesnt have submision. Last time in a MMA practice a guy told it to me. So i made him an ude garami.
@thomasohare The reason Judokas dislike BJJ is because the Gracies and BJJ students rarely give credit to Judo. They say anything done on the ground was founded by BJJ. They don't tell anyone that the person who taught the Gracies was a Judoka.
Can a BBJ black belt belt defeat a Judo black belt? Sure. Can a Judo black belt defeat a BJJ? Yes, again.
You made a good point until your last paragraph. Helio Gracie lost to Masahiko Kimura but they call it a "moral victory."
Jonny so true
*The reason Judokas dislike BJJ is because the Gracies and BJJ students rarely give credit to Judo. They say anything done on the ground was founded by BJJ. They don't tell anyone that the person who taught the Gracies was a Judoka.*
The only people who come across as anti-Gracie whether it's justified or not are usually people who dont train or are mediocre Judokas who look for confirmation bias. I doubt most Judokas give a shit. For example, I find it peculiar that the most vocal and strong critics tend to also more likely to believe in false rumors against the Gracies such as Yoshida beating Royce in the first match.
*Can a BBJ black belt belt defeat a Judo black belt? Sure. Can a Judo black belt defeat a BJJ? Yes, again*
The "It's not the art it's the fighter" dogma is a false argument that's usually used to intellectually cop out discussions comparing different arts. But for the sake of the argument. Sure, Judo black belts have been recorded to defeat verifiable BJJ black belts, but those tend to be very infrequent and those outliers can be easily explained by certain factors like lineage, training quality, etc.
I think it's odd that you accuse people of intellectual dishonesty and then go on to say that Yoshida beating Royce Gracie is a rumour. Yoshida was dominant and Royce was briefly unconcious (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royce_Gracie#Bouts_with_Yoshida). Now Royce didn't lose because the ref didn't have the authority to stop the fight? Yoshida wasn't in dominant position about to end the contest? Btw. Yoshida is quite bad on the ground for a japanese olympic medallist.
During the second fight Royce was dominant. So why do you think that is?
The answer is quite simple, it is the ruleset. But, but MMA. A lot of Judo players don't give a shit about MMA. Everything that is forbidden would be utilized in a real situation by Judoka (guard slam, 12-6 ellbow, stomping an opponent on the ground, piledriver). Furthermore, the attire clearly takes a bit to get used to for Judoka with the mouthpiece, groin protector, light gloves and shorts that you are not allowed to grab. Lastly, Judo players need to change their mentality from actively trying not to injure their opponents, to injury as a desired outcome.
BJJ is a good sport/art and I like emphasis on guard positions. Meanwhile, quite a few of the creative techniques only exist due to piss poor execution of previous techniques. Likewise, positions like x-guard are only usefull within the BJJ ruleset. Judo is conservative in that techniques have to be sucessful at the highest level, before people broadly utilize them. BJJ is progressive in that people focus more on creating their own style and then figure out what is succesful later on.
If you actually want to compare two martial arts then you'll need to come up with some sort of objectively neutral/realistic rules and test your assumpitions statistically. But that's really hard, should competitors wear regular clothes? Long pants and jacket. Long pants and t-shirt? No gloves?
I don't think you have any answers to those issues and your perception of outliers are based upon your biases (just like mine and everybody elses). I think it is pointless to argue about which exercise is "better". Go to any competitive Judo club within Judo powerhouses like Japan, South Korea, France, Russia, Brazil,... and you'll soon change your perception of Judo.
For the practicality: Judo is more affordable. If you live in the United States, then I would go with BJJ because the quality of the teaching is superior. If you live anywhere else in the world, then I would go with Judo (even in Brazil, unless you have a Gracie dojo next door). If I were a late beginner, I would probably go with BJJ because you can still become a decent competitor in it. With Judo, you will never get to a high level unless you start during your childhood. Finally, Judo is harsher on the body and requires a higher degree of physical fitness.
I think calling it Brazilian Jujitsu is somewhat off, too. Given it doesn’t resemble Jujitsu in any way, apart from some of the groundwork, which came to judo and then “BJJ”, from Jujitsu. Often victories are claimed by BJJ guys over others, when they are fighting in the BJJ style and rules. Somewhat of an advantage... Having said all that, though, I do admire the groundwork moves of BJJ.
It's good that you are visiting a judo club. You'll learn a lot. I hope you've a great time in the dojo.
Excellent - great to see how judo's benefitting from bjj. KAshiwazaki's ground game's improved a lot lately ;)
👍🤣
Best trolling ever! :D
I'm loving that sweep at 4:14
It's a classic in Bjj but it doesn't always work.
@@yevgeniyzharinov7473
You’ll get caught in a crucifix
Kashiwazaki, the master !
Esta sequência de raspagens são muito eficientes!
Agora para quem não conhece, é treinar e aprimorar.
@hooverbaglegs
BJJ is Judo that focuses more on the Newaza (ground fighting) aspects of judo than the standing (tachiwaza) aspects. Look up Kosen Judo when you get a chance.
Boas tecnicas ! O que mostra que o Judô não precisa do BJJ !
It's good to see these techniques from judo because it shows that judokas also have good Ne Waza techniques. Where did you got your hands on this video. Thanks for posting!
@asdfero you are right, that's 100% correct. It's not actually finding a newaza academy, it's finding a Judo academy that emphasizes 50% stand up and 50% ground grappling is hard .. many USA dojos practice 75% up and 25% ground ... that's wrong but the major influence of BJJ ground grappling has definitely plaid a major role in "waking" up many dojos through out the country into practicing more ground grappling.
Please visit Toshi Dojo, LLC for 50% tachi waza, and 50% ne waza.
@NIKandSi have you ever heard of Masahiko Kimura?
thats some REALLY GOOD STUFF!!!!!!!!!!
search Kimura and Helio fight and it shows one of the best Judokas in the world fighting Helio Gracie and the Judoka breaks his arm in the fight and even knock him out for a few seconds.
dont needm my former sensei Hirata kanae from Kosen Judo school, told me in person the fight between kimura and helio gracie.
Hirata sensei was kimura friend and sparring partner back in the days. do I need to say more.
It's funny that you're saying that when a lot of BJJ techniques have Japanese names. I'm sure the Brazillians taught the Japanese Japanese too eh?
Would it be more effective to take the back with the beginning stages of this sweep? With your opponents arm across his body and your hand on his belt, can't you just bring your hips out and pull his belt ending up in back control? That is my favorite thing to do, but I always try it in closed guard, I've never tried it like this.
@hooverbaglegs Actually, I think it's the other way around.
@BlackShinobiShozoku
Yeah no outside influence. Tell me again what characters you use to write jujutsu and where they came from. Also the concepts of ju and aiki exist in all grappling, explicitly or not. Any high level grappler develops a 'feel' for where the opponents strength is directed and can work around it instead of against it.
But it's a null point anyhow since grappling pre-dates any culture or civilization.
doubt it; Kano Sensei and his students put together a lot of the judo techniques and developed them through randori; for example harai goshi hane goshi uchimata ucimata kaeshi and sukashi; are not these all modern developments, progression of expertise as a result of randori, not kata as was drilled before judo.
Judo originated from, Jujitsu, JJ originated in japan during the feudal ages so soldiers could still defend themselves with out a weapon in combat, least they be disarmed, Judo was functionally formed in the 19th century as a combative sport, based off JJ. Judo literally translates to "The Gentle Way" Both are excellent forms of Martial arts neither better nor worse than the other. Rules are what make the arts different, not the function
where did Judo Newaza techniques come from?
thats right the old Jiu-Jitsu Ryu Ha.
Hey Crixx....the ;) is supposed to give away the fact that my comment is ironic.
Kashiwazaki's forgotten more groundwork than most BJJers ever knew...
@Football10Fan Royce Gracie lost to Yoshida in their first meeting, but couldn't admit it and complained and displayed very poor sportsmanship. Later Royce was disqualified for a match with Sakura because of a banned substance found in testing, say reports.
It's just about giving credit where credit is do. Anyone can beat anyone, it is just about being a good sport about it.
The Gracies are not the most likeable when it comes to things like that and by extension BJJ.
Royce did not lose to Yoshida. It was a premature stoppage so their complaint was completely justified. Here's a video debunking that myth propagated by anti-Gracie/BJJ critics and fanatics like you: ruclips.net/video/JNboKnaI4H0/видео.html
None of everything you said has anything to do with giving credit. That's called a red herring fallacy.
this is why i always say judo and bjj are different sports, but the same art. i HATE judo IJF rules right now, so i go to bjj tourneys until rules are better. now granted stances are different and a few other things, but this is because of the rules. my judo club doesnt care about the rules. learn leg locks, learn illegal throws.. butterfly sweeps ect. but current judo rules do not allow for judo to show what it actually is! the olympics are the problem :(
I think the same, it's the same art! Same techniques! You train in a good Judo Club, most clubs the Sensei's don't know ground game enough
How should one search for a non-Olympic judo dojo?
@@francisbugarin4206 Find an old school Judo, most of the old school teach ground game to some extent. Maybe not as good as BJJ Blackbelt but if you have good instructor that know deep knowledge of Newaza, you will be atleast at Blue or Purplebelt level in BJJ.
If not train both.
Amazing how many judo guys hate BJJ, I started in Judo but I let it because prefer BJJ and believe it or not even in the same techniques there are little details and most Judo schools will never defeat top world BJJ schools on the ground, being the time they practice one of themost logic reasons, they won't let Tachiwaza to do more ground.
Kashiwazaki is the man anyway, beatiful Tomoe Nague.
Now UFC and mma learning all the floor technique .In judo we can't don't that anymore.
errrr I meant Koma also known as Maeda mitsuyo
Oke
@TheEastasianpride Oh man I forgot about this troll-vid! FEED MORE NEXT TIME PLZ! (judo yellow belt myself)
Why so close mind???
In places like Brasil is usual see people training in both sports even if this technique is in BJJ with other name who cares, Judo wasn"t the first one, nobody knows for sure where the techniques come from.
I did one year of Judo and it helped me a lot now in BJJ, both are great arts.
@ChinaHoovers LOL....funny, LMAO...cheeky....you don't have to look far into BJJ (um...the name) to get a hint of where it's from...yet guys are so surprised that we practice BJJ techniques like armbars when they visit my judo dojo...to their credit, the marketing package was successful indeed
Very different; Carlos Gracie is a student of one of Kano shihans best (Maeda.) He brought randori to jujitsu, so called it judo. Gracie copied the prewar style, and was a high level judoka before breaking with his teacher/s and going his own pathway. Commerce attitude is vastly different; and the lies and half truths on his first promotional videos could only be described as inflammatory and disrespectful from the top. Causing fights on a beach and filming them...to make a point, dodgey.
I know, but I think some higherranks judocas forgot that.
I agree, Olympic Judoka were strong and tough, i don't see why they didn't them in? Conspiracy!
that right friend, money talks!..... Royce and Company backs in 80´s want challenge Gokor Haystan grappling, but some one warn royce not to fight him, gracie was scare about this guys!
Bas Rutten, Gokor Chivycian challenge rickson and Royce gracie, but gracie never took the fight!
and also Helio Gracie lost to famous Judoka legend Kimura in Brazil, Kimura broke his arm and because he was so ignorant Helio wanted to carry on with a broken arm, they cant take loosin those Gracies and everything they know comes from either Judo or Jui Jutsu, all they've done is call it brazillian Jui Jitsu, they're frauds.
It's old judo .. or just a different part of the full judo curriculum.
of course brazilians have brought a good sporting competitive attitude and dedication to practice ... like with football ... but didnt "invent" it.
Google "George Mehdi judo" "M. Tripp judo history"
It's japanese judo practiced a certain way is all. A tactical and trraining emphasis on newaza. it is still practiced this way in some dojos in Japan.
Hoover, you're funny. This move isn't anything new.
There's no hairi-kata. Hairi-kata: takedowns the are not throws.
people still have blinkers on when it comes to the ground game, their lack of knowledge on a true dominate ground game, is not BJJ. what would have happen if Gracie placed judo players in early UFC when they were promoting BJJ, instead of not accepting many judo applications from around the world, anyone could see, boxing and most stand up arts would not win against BJJ,funny that not one judo players who had any real titles was ever accepted in UFC, unitll now,and look whats happen, judo wins
I dont understand all the BJJ hate either, both are awesome arts and basically two sides to the same coin, they could both learn a huge amount from each other.
BUT for all the BJJ haters out there, name me 3 kosen players that have been successful in MMA compared to the dozens of BJJ guys. A good competitive BJJ black belt would tear these kosen guys to pieces, and there are 100s of good competitive BJJ black belts.
Thomas O'Hare Kosen Judo is practiced in only 7 universities in Japan that ranges from the age of high schoolers to college students, as well as the instructors... BJJ is practiced all over the globe in many countries... So of course the talent pool will be greater if BJJ is practiced more widely.
3 well known Kosen judokas:
1. Masahiko Kimura
2. Yuki Nakai
3. Shinya Aoki
One of the best is also Koji Komuro.
Sry mate....don't think you got my drift....
hahahah i agree its funny cause carlos sr. gracie showed helio gracie judo he learned from Koga. The idiots think they were learning jiujitsu
press 5 a few times...yeaaahhh shake that bootie !!!!! hahaahaaha
Yep, but I don"t get mad anymore, when my old partners judocas ask me why I haven"t go to Judo since January 2008 I said:
AH now I "m doing BJJ
Blasphemy!!!! That is just a Judo copy and BLA BLA BLA .
I don"t care , I will always respect Judo but I enjoy BJJ and Grappling muche more, that"s all.
Carlos and Helio Gracie are not Judoka, Those people have been copy and lerning from others style for years and making for them self big money and tell lies to their own student.
I´ve spoke with one former Brasilian Jiu jitsu black belt, this guy told me, back in 1980´s Royce Gracie challenge on japanese Karate master for Okinawa " Goju Ryu style" the match went bad for Royce Gracie got broken 4 ribs with only one kick, Royce gracie lost the fight. 1984 - 1986.
you do realize that judo isn't original either right? oh noes, Kano assimilated a bunch of techniques and adapted them into his own system, doesn't sound like the Gracies at all..
I highly doubt anyone's trying to take credit for coming up with the techniques, judo included. Adaptation into a new system is a completely different thing
Aggghhhh - yet another american who doesn't get satire....I did try and make it explicit with the ;).....but no....let's keep it literal eh?
You guys act like every ground move was invented in judo or jiujitsu. Grappling has been around since before man. The original jiujitsukas stole them from somewhere, developed and renamed them, just as Kano did with judo. And now you get pissed because BJJ:ers took techniques and developed further on them and renamed them.
Lol, butthurt hypocrites.
We just improved the newaza, most of bjj techniques are just improvments, nothing new. The great inovation by Helio Gracie was the closed guard, something that practiced in the early XX century. Of course, if you get modern jiu-jitsu techniques such as de la riva guard and many other, it is brand new techniques that you won't get similar in judo.
Helio didnt innovate the closed guard, and Dela Riva guard is from Kosen Judo as is explained in BJJheroes website...
So now judo people take BJJ created techniques and give it out as if they invented it themselves... If not gracies there would be no ground game ANYWHERE! Judo/karate guys ( same thing really) go back to your board breaking and bruce lee movies.