wow! that plaster of paris idea is fantastic! It's almost like ceramic shell lost wax casting or something like that. It's like a hybrid sand/shell system, that surface finish is amazing!
Thanks for the metric, my fellow American! I find learning the terminology so much easier in metric, since I haven't really built much to dimensions before.
A breath of fresh air! Metric! No absurd fractions! Keep it up! All this aside, the lost foam method is very interesting. So is an idea I saw on Keith Rucker's channel: use 3-D printing to make the patterns. Now all you need is a printer, or a friend with one. After all you have the solid model already. Bravo.
Looking sweet, dude!! Its making me want to build one of these, as if I didn't already have enough projects on my plate! Those bigger countersinks chatter pretty bad unless you run them at VERY low speeds, I've had that exact problem a number of times with my drills, lathe, and mill. A trick I learned by watching Keith Fenner is to actually chuck one up in a bit brace/hand drill (old timey style!) and just turn the countersinks by hand! looking forward to the next part!
The key to reducing chatter in a lightweight drill press when using large-diameter bits is to not use the table. It flexes quite a lot when you put pressure on it with the quill (watch the front edge of your table at 17:40 in your video). Just turn the table out of the way and support your workpiece on the baseplate, propped up with some kind of large stable blocks (housebricks or a suitable length of 4x4 can work well).
Keen observation. I tried the card stock technique some others had suggested. It helped. I will give your suggestion a shot...there will be a lag though since chapter 2 is completed and I'm in the extended cut edit phase right now.
That's a good idea, I'll keep it in mind. Considering how much your drill press table was flexing, I suspect that if you look closely at your countersinks you'll find that the hole tended to wander in the direction of the drill press pillar.
Another method of lost foam you might try. Get your first coat of plaster on, then when dry, add a second, and before the second coat dies, dust it with sand. Repeat this several times to build up a decent thick outer shell. Then bake the part in your furnace / kiln to ensure the foam burns out, and moisture is driven out of the mold, and you'll have an empty shell for your pour. After the pour, you metal parts will shrink, making it easier to knock off the shell, usually by hammering on the sprue. This should also keep your bedding material from contaminating the pour This is quite similar to an industrial method for lost-wax casting. As you are using material with lower melting temperatures aluminum / aluminum alloy (463oC - 660oC), and not steel (1425oC - 1540oC) If you were to attempt this with steel, i would suggest a great amount of caution, and the use of ceramic and sand instead of plaster and sand, and a proper firing. hrm.. Found a video that demonstrates the process using lost wax, and cermics ruclips.net/video/wMzSS3BnMLs/видео.html
G'day Cressel, it's shaping up. I've thought of lost foam method but can't get past the, "what if it fails", all that work up in smoke (I've had enough failures) but am getting better. I like your plaster solution though. Good job, keep it up. Peter
PGS I cast the ram earlier this week. I am pretty sure I'll remake that pattern. I still really like it. no worrying about draft. no separating, rolling, or ramming molds. for one offs I think it is a pretty good way to go. I'll be sure to add some detail about how it impacted my efficiency to remake it.
2 tricks I've picked up when lost foam casting: first, don't use green sand. use beach sand or sandbox sand, something with large grains. it flows around the part better and doesn't need to be packed in. Second, hot-glue 2 stacked foam cups to your sprew and fill the flask to partway up their side, when you're ready to pour remove the top cup. It adds height for better flow and it keeps the sand out.
The Gingery Machines Yahoo group has an excellent document about lost foam casting in the files group. Reposted from another Casting group on Yahoo. He uses straws as vents, feeds from the bottom and uses a different kind of foam for the sprues (the low density white stuff used to pack computers and such)
I love the idea to put plaster on the part! makes the consistency of the sand not matter alot. may even make the clay component unneccesary, will have to test.
I wonder if would be a good idea to come up with a half-ass method for estimating the required aluminum volume by weighing the Styrofoam pattern and multiplying it by a conversion factor? Another great video by the way. For your future videos, I hope you can find an excuse to make a Lost PLA Casting from a 3D Print.
stylac I model these parts in fusion. I can apply a physical material and actually see what the weight of the part will be. a weight multiplier on the pattern would work well too. this particular instance is a combo of running low on ingots, excitement to give it a shot, and also running low on propane. I got a PLA print from Geeksmithing at the Atlanta Woodworking Show this weekend so I plan to dump some metal on it this week just to see how it goes.
would a desktop computer powersupply work for the hotwire ? as for the speed on the drillpres : i have seen people use treadmill motors on them with a rpm regulator , check on youtube there a few vids on them
If you had to do it over again, would you have cast any of the lathe parts or column sides still using green sand and wooden patterns? I am particularly curious about the split nut and the column sides.
red rob column sides would definitely be lost foam. They were very hard to mold. The ball crank handles are probably a good candidate for a green sand mold. Intricate, used multiple times, small. Maybe pulley blanks too.
i followed your lathe build series and preparing to start my lathe etc...you have me thinking about the lost cast method...what reference material did you use to learn it...it appears to be better on time and i imagine a easier learning curve
Chris Chapel I watched maybe a dozen or two RUclips videos on lost foam over the last 4 years. king of random and makerj101 have good vids. I read up on the combustion byproducts to satisfy myself I wasn't going to poison myself. other than that no reference just experimentation.
put a thick sheet or two of card stock between the countersink and the part. when you start cutting, the paper cushions the start of the cutting and buffers the teeth as they cut into the metal! you'll have smooth cutting if you do 😀 ( oh, scrap denim will work as well ) it'll even help smooth out a chartered start 😋 Respect Always metalshaper\jonathan
This is exciting to watch. I am curious though why you feel the need to predrill with 3mm before 5mm. Is your drill press just not powerful enough? I tend to just go straight to the final size, as long as my machines can handle it, which means anything below 10mm. Above that I either can not get enough tool pressure or stall out the machine, so predrilling becomes necessary at that point.
neistridlar you have me convinced. I'm going to try it. probably got started because my bits would wander even with center punching first. I now have better drill bits.
The wandering bit can be easily solved by using a starter drill, that is a short stubby one. If you don't have one you can just take any piece of round HSS, grind a 120 degree tip on it, and then grind off half of the diameter near the tip (look up D-bit, you will get the idea). Works great of me. I can even drill a hole on the top of round parts without making a flat first by this method.
Yes, I have seen several of those, if not all. If your machine is not able to take the big one you drill with one that is as big as the chisel point and predrill. This is especially important if you use a hand held drill, as it is difficult to get enough pressure on those. If you don't get a proper chip, or you get lots of chatter, then it is time to find a smaller drill. However there are multiple reasons not to start at the smallest drill and using every size you have in between. First of all, if you drill with a bit that is only marginally larger than the hole, the drill tends to want to screw it self in to the hole. Thus it is taking a bigger bite that it can really handle, it can lead to some scary situations, I have first hand experience with that. Also using multiple drills means you wear out more tools in the process, but only on the corners. Also there is the added time of multiple tool changes. In the end though if the job gets done and you are happy with it, I think that is what matters the most.
hola amigo....gracias por el comentario de mi video...Esta muy interesante la contruccion de tu limadora, una pregunta , ¿de cuanto es la carrera de tu limadora?....saludos y un abrazo a la distancia
Asaad omar I use hot glue and a hot glue gun. I do not ram the sand but do try to push it firmly around the pattern. I need to be careful with undercuts. you will see in a future video that the pressure can break the sand if there is not enough mass to counter act it.
I love the detail you describe this in. Seems a step up from the lathe build. Where do you get your aluminium? Also what are the capacity and dimensions of your crucible?
+Troy AM i like it. Hmmm. seems like this could cause problems as it is common for mil to refer to 1 thousandth of an inch in certain parts. Maybe ill use mil in both contexts in a video just to stir it up ;)
Oh come on Cres... your impatience is causing you to mess things up. if your going to drill off hand you guaranteed to drill it crooked. take your time, use the drill press more often, more clamps and if you must drill off-hand use a bench block to guide the drill. You can make a bench block with the lathe you now have. You need to address those issues before moving ahead (id go so far as remaking everything and drill it striaght. any sloppy holes are going to result in a less than ridgid structure which the shaper depends on. Also use a square more often a good quality one and dont forget to get to scrape those cold roll parts and slides. do it right dude..
Ramiro M possibly. the books suggests that these tools can be built entirely with a hand drill. I still need to install the 6 actual fasteners that will hold the column front in place. having those squared up should soIidify the column to a good degree. like the idea to build a bench block.
Ramiro M agree. when frostoak made the shaper on alloyavenue, it took awhile to get the column squared up, scrape the cold roll ways, ensure everything is as it should be. didnt see much of that here. didnt look like the ways or anything was square or parallel really. hopefully these issues are addressed already or will be in a future episode
wow! that plaster of paris idea is fantastic! It's almost like ceramic shell lost wax casting or something like that. It's like a hybrid sand/shell system, that surface finish is amazing!
Thanks for the metric, my fellow American! I find learning the terminology so much easier in metric, since I haven't really built much to dimensions before.
A breath of fresh air! Metric! No absurd fractions! Keep it up! All this aside, the lost foam method is very interesting. So is an idea I saw on Keith Rucker's channel: use 3-D printing to make the patterns. Now all you need is a printer, or a friend with one. After all you have the solid model already. Bravo.
8:58 That laugh tho! Way too familiar to me and my family when a project goes surprisingly well! Congrats on that!
I don't know why more people aren't subbing to this. It is awesome!
May the Schwarz be with you haha. more shares for the win. ;)
You dont shy away from big projects! I like that!
Looking sweet, dude!! Its making me want to build one of these, as if I didn't already have enough projects on my plate! Those bigger countersinks chatter pretty bad unless you run them at VERY low speeds, I've had that exact problem a number of times with my drills, lathe, and mill. A trick I learned by watching Keith Fenner is to actually chuck one up in a bit brace/hand drill (old timey style!) and just turn the countersinks by hand! looking forward to the next part!
Practical Renaissance I need to give that a shot.
12:53 Milling on a table saw!! I love it -- have used that technique myself.
Awesome videos! If you're getting chatter with a 3 flute countersink, try a single flute. I use single flute HSS countersinks and they are fantastic.
The key to reducing chatter in a lightweight drill press when using large-diameter bits is to not use the table. It flexes quite a lot when you put pressure on it with the quill (watch the front edge of your table at 17:40 in your video).
Just turn the table out of the way and support your workpiece on the baseplate, propped up with some kind of large stable blocks (housebricks or a suitable length of 4x4 can work well).
Keen observation. I tried the card stock technique some others had suggested. It helped. I will give your suggestion a shot...there will be a lag though since chapter 2 is completed and I'm in the extended cut edit phase right now.
That's a good idea, I'll keep it in mind.
Considering how much your drill press table was flexing, I suspect that if you look closely at your countersinks you'll find that the hole tended to wander in the direction of the drill press pillar.
Loved it. You got some nice parts out of that. Well done. Keep it up.
Best Matt
I like that chevelle in your shop. I have a 65 ss. And that hot wire is a good thing to have
Another method of lost foam you might try.
Get your first coat of plaster on, then when dry, add a second, and before the second coat dies, dust it with sand. Repeat this several times to build up a decent thick outer shell. Then bake the part in your furnace / kiln to ensure the foam burns out, and moisture is driven out of the mold, and you'll have an empty shell for your pour.
After the pour, you metal parts will shrink, making it easier to knock off the shell, usually by hammering on the sprue.
This should also keep your bedding material from contaminating the pour
This is quite similar to an industrial method for lost-wax casting. As you are using material with lower melting temperatures aluminum / aluminum alloy (463oC - 660oC), and not steel (1425oC - 1540oC)
If you were to attempt this with steel, i would suggest a great amount of caution, and the use of ceramic and sand instead of plaster and sand, and a proper firing.
hrm.. Found a video that demonstrates the process using lost wax, and cermics
ruclips.net/video/wMzSS3BnMLs/видео.html
G'day Cressel, it's shaping up. I've thought of lost foam method but can't get past the, "what if it fails", all that work up in smoke (I've had enough failures) but am getting better. I like your plaster solution though. Good job, keep it up. Peter
PGS I cast the ram earlier this week. I am pretty sure I'll remake that pattern. I still really like it. no worrying about draft. no separating, rolling, or ramming molds. for one offs I think it is a pretty good way to go. I'll be sure to add some detail about how it impacted my efficiency to remake it.
When tapping on a little drill press like yours, you can open the top and grab the belt to spin the tap in and out quickly.
2 tricks I've picked up when lost foam casting: first, don't use green sand. use beach sand or sandbox sand, something with large grains. it flows around the part better and doesn't need to be packed in. Second, hot-glue 2 stacked foam cups to your sprew and fill the flask to partway up their side, when you're ready to pour remove the top cup. It adds height for better flow and it keeps the sand out.
Bump
I agree, and sand that can be thrown away. Lost foam casting made my good greensand STINK.
Ben D good tips. I am using play sand. I'll give the cups a try. I store the sand outside in 5 gallon tubs be a useful it stinks. :)
The Gingery Machines Yahoo group has an excellent document about lost foam casting in the files group. Reposted from another Casting group on Yahoo. He uses straws as vents, feeds from the bottom and uses a different kind of foam for the sprues (the low density white stuff used to pack computers and such)
I love the idea to put plaster on the part! makes the consistency of the sand not matter alot. may even make the clay component unneccesary, will have to test.
It's getting a great job.
congratulations!!!
Hey, you remember me?, I'm following your channel, I'm from Brazil, this method of casting is very good. All good for you and your family.
tanks
Could try lost PLA casting, making the shapes with a 3d printer and same steps as lost-foam
Scott Ott everything I read suggests lost PLS involves melting out the PLA before casting. with foam there is no need to melt the investment first.
Haha, when I watched the column casting all I could think was "This failure brought to you by... me" So glad it worked out! :-)
Matthew Wilson ROFL I'll be more careful with where I put credits. :)
I wonder if would be a good idea to come up with a half-ass method for estimating the required aluminum volume by weighing the Styrofoam pattern and multiplying it by a conversion factor?
Another great video by the way.
For your future videos, I hope you can find an excuse to make a Lost PLA Casting from a 3D Print.
stylac I model these parts in fusion. I can apply a physical material and actually see what the weight of the part will be. a weight multiplier on the pattern would work well too. this particular instance is a combo of running low on ingots, excitement to give it a shot, and also running low on propane. I got a PLA print from Geeksmithing at the Atlanta Woodworking Show this weekend so I plan to dump some metal on it this week just to see how it goes.
would a desktop computer powersupply work for the hotwire ?
as for the speed on the drillpres : i have seen people use treadmill motors on them with a rpm regulator , check on youtube there a few vids on them
Measure 7 times, cut once
If you had to do it over again, would you have cast any of the lathe parts or column sides still using green sand and wooden patterns? I am particularly curious about the split nut and the column sides.
red rob column sides would definitely be lost foam. They were very hard to mold. The ball crank handles are probably a good candidate for a green sand mold. Intricate, used multiple times, small. Maybe pulley blanks too.
i followed your lathe build series and preparing to start my lathe etc...you have me thinking about the lost cast method...what reference material did you use to learn it...it appears to be better on time and i imagine a easier learning curve
Chris Chapel I watched maybe a dozen or two RUclips videos on lost foam over the last 4 years. king of random and makerj101 have good vids. I read up on the combustion byproducts to satisfy myself I wasn't going to poison myself. other than that no reference just experimentation.
put a thick sheet or two of card stock between the countersink and the part. when you start cutting, the paper cushions the start of the cutting and buffers the teeth as they cut into the metal! you'll have smooth cutting if you do 😀 ( oh, scrap denim will work as well )
it'll even help smooth out a chartered start 😋
Respect Always
metalshaper\jonathan
Colton Bumstead ok I'll give this a try. thanks.
Just a thought, would a paintbrush work better than a finger for applying the plaster to the foam?
probably, but not nearly as fun ;)
Can i ask how does the clapper lifts itself
So if you had to do the lathe project all over again, would you choose lost foam casting?
man this is looking awesome!
Your drill press could do with some support underneath the table while your drilling
This is exciting to watch. I am curious though why you feel the need to predrill with 3mm before 5mm. Is your drill press just not powerful enough? I tend to just go straight to the final size, as long as my machines can handle it, which means anything below 10mm. Above that I either can not get enough tool pressure or stall out the machine, so predrilling becomes necessary at that point.
neistridlar you have me convinced. I'm going to try it. probably got started because my bits would wander even with center punching first. I now have better drill bits.
The wandering bit can be easily solved by using a starter drill, that is a short stubby one. If you don't have one you can just take any piece of round HSS, grind a 120 degree tip on it, and then grind off half of the diameter near the tip (look up D-bit, you will get the idea). Works great of me. I can even drill a hole on the top of round parts without making a flat first by this method.
Yes, I have seen several of those, if not all. If your machine is not able to take the big one you drill with one that is as big as the chisel point and predrill. This is especially important if you use a hand held drill, as it is difficult to get enough pressure on those. If you don't get a proper chip, or you get lots of chatter, then it is time to find a smaller drill.
However there are multiple reasons not to start at the smallest drill and using every size you have in between. First of all, if you drill with a bit that is only marginally larger than the hole, the drill tends to want to screw it self in to the hole. Thus it is taking a bigger bite that it can really handle, it can lead to some scary situations, I have first hand experience with that. Also using multiple drills means you wear out more tools in the process, but only on the corners. Also there is the added time of multiple tool changes.
In the end though if the job gets done and you are happy with it, I think that is what matters the most.
hola amigo....gracias por el comentario de mi video...Esta muy interesante la contruccion de tu limadora, una pregunta , ¿de cuanto es la carrera de tu limadora?....saludos y un abrazo a la distancia
~5"
I liked the video and thanks for sharing . I am asking how you glue foam? And do you pack the sand or put it loose around pattern
?
Asaad omar I use hot glue and a hot glue gun. I do not ram the sand but do try to push it firmly around the pattern. I need to be careful with undercuts. you will see in a future video that the pressure can break the sand if there is not enough mass to counter act it.
I love the detail you describe this in. Seems a step up from the lathe build.
Where do you get your aluminium? Also what are the capacity and dimensions of your crucible?
I was going to try using joint compound to do lost wax/foam/PLA. plaster of paris apparently works too :) Thanks!
I'd like to see you make a milling machine
Is it posible to make the shaper from mild steel+ welding?
Δημήτρης probably. please share if you give it a try.
I sure will.
2:47 are you sure that's in tune? sound just a little flat. ;)
Yeah right man...a tuner is lows as 5$ now days.
Why do you use wooden flasks with the lost foam method?
Because i didnt have enough sand. It just gave me a deeper sand bin in a small are.
What kind of steel is that and where did you get it
Logan Zister 75mm x 6mm 1018 cold rolled. parker steel.
What type of foam are you using?
krawacik3 fomular from home depot
I thought that you would need high carbon thanks for telling me 👍
righto just say mils or mil instead of millimeters aagh hahaha
Awesome vid!
Cheers From Perth
Troy
+Troy AM i like it. Hmmm. seems like this could cause problems as it is common for mil to refer to 1 thousandth of an inch in certain parts. Maybe ill use mil in both contexts in a video just to stir it up ;)
Drilling uphill
90 or 82 witch angle ? do the the math
Oh come on Cres... your impatience is causing you to mess things up. if your going to drill off hand you guaranteed to drill it crooked. take your time, use the drill press more often, more clamps and if you must drill off-hand use a bench block to guide the drill. You can make a bench block with the lathe you now have. You need to address those issues before moving ahead (id go so far as remaking everything and drill it striaght. any sloppy holes are going to result in a less than ridgid structure which the shaper depends on. Also use a square more often a good quality one and dont forget to get to scrape those cold roll parts and slides. do it right dude..
Ramiro M possibly. the books suggests that these tools can be built entirely with a hand drill. I still need to install the 6 actual fasteners that will hold the column front in place. having those squared up should soIidify the column to a good degree. like the idea to build a bench block.
Ramiro M
agree. when frostoak made the shaper on alloyavenue, it took awhile to get the column squared up, scrape the cold roll ways, ensure everything is as it should be. didnt see much of that here. didnt look like the ways or anything was square or parallel really. hopefully these issues are addressed already or will be in a future episode