I'm laughing so hard, that's so much smarter than mine - I was using the acronym PHAT in my head, and going "yeah, it's phat like it's cool", yours is so much better, I'm dying
@@MonarchsFactory Haha, well it's yours now! Thanks for the video, I'm now going to take my pantheon spreadsheet and see what Phat Paths they will walk!
"Why is there a Domain of Light?" I feel pretty sure it's because the DevTeam want to get away from the way religion actually works. They *want* domains that don't bear any real association with the human experience. Basically, the way Blizzard does it. "How can we implement religion without offending anyone?" Well, you do it in the most meaningless, content-free way possible.
It's a shame, because I think the domain of Light really does have a place as one focused on prophecy and understanding. It could be a different direction from which to approach the Knowledge domain, less academic and more meditative. Give it some divination spells, not just "let's give the Cleric fireball with this one."
For me the Light domain resembles a multitude of things; good & rightousness, fire and warmth & truth. It is a bit much but it would fit a god of protection.
I don't agree. Or rather I wish I could say I don't think you're right but then I don't have 20 something years in the industry. That said, I imagine the Light domain speaks to very comfortable mythological standard of Light vs Darkness. Where "the Dark" is that scary unknown time between sundown and sun up where we can only have so many torches. A god of Light would be incredibly comforting, and SOMEONE must have created that big hot, bright thing in the sky. Or it could be (big G) God is copywritten material and the developers don't want to get sued by the Bishop of Rome. But I like my answer better.
"If you just start listing off gods attached to domains, it's going to feel like a spreadsheet." _Me, looking up from the spreadsheet where I am writing about my gods:_ 😳
I'd say listening them out on a spreadsheet or google docs is fine but when you adapt it into a story/world that's when you don't want it to feel like you're reading it from a spreadsheet. Personally, I don't really play DnD but I'm writing a fantasy world and I intend to introduce the gods in a meaningful way through the story; usually as a myth or by showing worshippers praying to an aspect of the god.
Almost by coincidence I created a similar version of "the one good story" when I made my pantheon for my game a year ago. That story being that originally there were two gods, Corona and Cronotch, the goddess of light and creation and the god of darkness and time respectively. After the two of them created the universe Corona fell asleep forever (she was tired) and left Cronotch to rule everything, including their eight godly children, four sons, and four daughters. But being the god of time Cronotch knew of a prophecy that four of his children would rise up and destroy him, taking his throne for themselves. He assumed it would be his boisterous and rowdy sons so he invited them all to a party and when they were all very drunk he one by one lured his sons into a giant pestle and mortar and ground them up into dust, before them scattering that dust to the wind. The four sisters. mourning their brothers each traveled in different directions to collect the remains of their brothers, they placed each speck of dust in the sky to hang there forever (this is how the stars came to be). Along their journey each sister found or made a different weapon from a different materiel. A staff of Oak, A Shield of Stone, A sword of Silver, and A Spear of Gold. Using these weapons the sisters destroyed their father, thus bringing the prophecy to pass, and the four sisters divided up the world among themselves. Each taking their favorite places from their journey as their domain. But not only did that leave most of the earth neutral, they also noticed that wherever their father's blood hit something that something became a sentient creature (elves, dwarves, humans, all those guys). And so rather then fight about who should claim them they decided that each of them should rule three months out of every year. Their names then became the names for the seasons, Spring with her Staff of Oak (goddess of Fertility and Wilderness), Autumn with her Shield of Stone (goddess of Wisdom and Knowledge), Winter with her Sword of Silver (goddess of the Underworld and Judgement), and Summer with her Spear of Gold (goddess of Storms and the Sky). Similar, its possible it misses a few of those elements though.
This story's got everything: creation story, self fulfilling prophecies, explanations for why things in the world are as such, and hints at artifacts the players may or may not encounter.
@@dallassukerkin6878 that's the thing : i AM french, and i still can't understand D: Is it supposed to be like a french pronunciation of "the hack" ? Or is it a english joke i am too french to understand ?
@@jaebedo1599 :grins: I took it be a joke, Jae :). To pretend to say something in a foreign language and follow it up with the little self-praising phrase :D.
One of the best pantheons I've seen is in the Magnus Archives podcast series, where SPOILERS the "gods" are eldritch nightmares that embody fear. Throughout the series, characters theorise on the nature of these entities and how they came to be and how they overlap. One of the analogies used for them is colour: they aren't truly separate beings but really all just aspects of one massive spectrum of fear, distinct as red is distinct from orange, but also connected in a way that you can't really define the point where one becomes the other. An example of this is The Stranger (fear of the unknown, the uncanny, things that are almost human but not quite and masks) and The Spiral (fear of madness, delusion, lies, that your reality is wrong). At what point does the mask of The Stranger become the deception of The Spiral?
@@sheetedkid I was a fan of 1st Edition, but the ridiculous power creep kept me from committing. Then I heard 2nd Edition dropped and I like the redesign so far!
Another important thing to remember is that a realistic mythology, like a realistic culture, has a history. Their present forms likely did not spring fully formed out of Zeus' head (unless, of course, you decide that they did). The present form of a culture will have hints of different substrates, from all its previous forms and interactions with other cultures. This is reflected in their mythology. If you want a good example of how this looks and feels, a good sense of a people's changing interactions with their gods, I can't recommend Mary Renault highly enough, starting with The King Must Die. It's set in a highly speculative and romanticized Bronze Age Greece, perfect fantasy inspiration. The rest of her novels track the development of the Greek World, through the Archaic and into the Classical eras, finally culminating with the campaigns of Alexander. It's a great study in a culture, as well as a number of fascinating characters. Very good reading.
"Their present forms likely did not spring fully formed out of Zeus' head" Isn't that exactly what Athena did? :p Being serious though, I totally agree. I actually have a lot of different pantheons in my own world based on the same gods seen by different cultures. Some are incredibly similar, while others are wildly different interpretations.
In the words of Carl Sagan. If you want to make a pie from scratch first you have to create the universe. So I guess if you want to make a god from scratch just bake a pie from scratch, it'll make you a god.
You're not wrong. The whole thing about man being made in God's image is about man's ability to create something from nothing. Like, baking a pie. Well that and probably having a sense of morality.
The upside of listening to your videos on the drive home is that it makes it fun. The downside is that then I am stuck in my car with a million ideas I need to write down and no chance to do so!
When I created my own pantheon for Tholl, I wanted the Gods to have multiple names each. An ancient name (known by scholars and other experts), a common nickname (known by peasants, tribesmen, travelers, etc.) and some sort of aspect that would give each one control or interest into more than one thing. That way several cultures or species might be worshiping the same god, but by different names and for different things. An example might be Verdriette. The Maiden of Sorrow. She Walks Between. The Whisper of Death. To gladiators in the coloseums of the Juvian Order, she is the quick death, and the chooser of the slain. To the Elves of Northern Eolas, she is the end of grief (the reason it becomes easier to deal with loss over time, as it is believed that she takes on the burden of loss as you learn to cope.) Priests might invoke her for funerals, while healers might invoke her to end pain when administering balms and herbs. She is both the reason you cry and the reason you stop. She is both loss and mercy, dark and benevolent in her way, and thoroughly misunderstood. No one, not even the other gods, would take on her portfolio. None could bear the grief she witnesses each day.
I know what the text says about Light but I've always head-canoned it as Power/Judgement. This cleric gets sent in when wrath has been stoked and the god wants to send a message to the blasphemers or to demonstrate the sheer magnitude of the god's divinity. Even the Warding Flare feature leans into this as a defensive measure against those who would strike against the god's messenger or their allies.
I feel like you're right on the money when it comes to the modern perspective easily becomes very "elemental." I never thought about it that way. If one wanted to do a more "elemental" pantheon, which is in many ways apt for D&D considering how the world itself is structured, I think one could easily just do both. Vulcan was the god of blacksmiths and the forge, but _also_ of fire and volcanoes. Thor is the god of strength and protection (among many other things), but he's _also_ the thunderer. Gods of "light" could also be gods of the arts or the sun or justice. Deities that people could realistically venerate (not just to get cool magic spells). Fantastic advice about "the one good story" too! Thank you! Definitely using that.
When developing a pantheon for my D&D games, I took inspiration from gamers within an MMORPG space, and made a three sided structure: Command, Collaboration and Chaos. Command = want to be in control of everything that happens in the narrative of the world Collaboration = want to experience the flow and journey of the narrative of the world Chaos = only interested in mucking around and having fun with the world
The Light domain is more than just light, though. It's also fire. You get a lot of fire spells. That ties it into blacksmith gods (who, yes, are also Forge domain, don't @ me). It ties into figures like Prometheus, who stole fire and gave it to humans. It ties into gods of destruction, and of cleansing. Even Hestia, goddess of the hearth, might count as a Light domain goddess, because of the associations with hearthfire. Even just light itself ties into any solar, lunar, and star deities. Apollo, Ra, Amaterasu, Quetzalcoatl, etc. Any culture that values agriculture - which is most cultures that become powerful to form major nation states - will put stock in two kinds of deities: Solar deities and Harvest deities. Speaking of harvest, that's why you have the Nature domain, and not just the Wilderness domain. "Wilderness" is more specific than is useful for a Cleric class meant to model believers in all sorts of divinity. Pan would certainly be a Nature domain god, but so would Demeter, and even Dionysis (god of the vine). Agriculture is Nature that has been tamed and bent to "civilized" ends.
In my games I've tried to run Light less as just the Light spell or Daylight or the sun or fire, and more like revealing something's true nature or making something right. In this way, it ties in with justice and good more than it does law or divinity. Kicking a usurper off the throne, sparing a few gold for the peasants, telling the truth even when it doesn't benefit you because the person hearing it deserves the truth, bringing secrets to light, (Pun intended). So by these guidelines Prometheus would be a servant of the light, not because he brings fire to the Humans, but because he risked his life and reputation and later accepted terrible punishment by disobeying an apathetic authority because he believed it was the right thing to do and he believed Humans deserved a fighting chance.
@@theStormWeaver You must be referring to different editions of the game. 5e doesn't have those. It has Light, Knowledge, Life, War, Tempest, Nature, Trickery, Death, Forge, Grave, and Order (the last three coming from supplements).
Old Norse specialist Dr. Jackson Crawford has made the same or similar perspective on the Norse pantheon. They were personalities first with an anthropological history, and then aspects and elementalism were tacked on later, partly by comparison with the Roman functionalist ideas. Also, if you can get hold of a copy of "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelazny, the novel is a telling of this process in personal forms. The gods are actual people with real people personalities, and their aspects and attributes are acquisitions evolved from their own personal tendencies after the fact. It's bloody brilliant, ironical, funny, romantic, mystical, and all the good things that Zelazny could do to you. It's grownup sci-fi/fantasy.
@@DaDunge You’re probably right but I’m a little confused because i’ve read something else, do you have the sources for Frey and Freya coming from Frö, and for Odin and Baldr being imported?
4 years later..... I appreciate the hell out of this video. Currently running a monotheistic campaign where the players along with some fallen angels, who fall into the 4 archetypes, attempt to overthrow and kill the one god. Then expanding the world into a full blown pantheon from there with the angels and PCs, giving the players a chance to immortalize their first characters in my world. So I would hope in future campaigns they would feel connected to the gods as players instead of just casually picking one with no meaning behind it.
When designing gods I pondered; what for cultural impact would it have if the main god of the dwarves was female? Would more women attend the forge then men? Would the women be like; "I crafted this beautiful hammer with the likeness of my pa, I crafted this baby for nine whole months and now I am back at the forge to craft a sword to smite some goblins!"
I like your mention of horizons as a numinous. It's one of those things that I've had experimenting in my head place for a minute. The whole idea of adventure and death are wrapped up in the uncertainty of what is beyond the Western horizon. It's the direction of the Hesperides, where Odysseus went on his final voyage, and where the Egyptians believed the land of the dead was. A very vague and provocative direction.
I really want to see the unabridged (unedited) version of this video. It is so obvious that she cares deeply about it and I could loose an hour+ listening to it.
Zeus as a god of justice is kind of dark when considering all the messed up things he did. I loved that secular description of the numinous btw. Interesting to phrase it that way.
This helped me a lot with fleshing out the religion of a project I'm worldbuilding. I had a fairly solid idea of who the 4 main gods were in function, but I didn't have any idea who they were as characters. While they are supposed to be fairly abstract, being the twisted remains of an ancient, half forgotten pantheon, I did still need some stories about them to provide depth. What I'm currently thinking is that the death god represent authority, as they are the final authority on all matters. The storm/monsoon god is treachery, as he often claims souls meant for the death god, brings water that defies the desert god, and is the only force capable of disrupting the order presented by the wind god. The wind god is harbor, as he is the patron and symbol of the entire region, and provides diligence and order needed to survive the otherwise inhospitable land. And finally, the desert god is purpose. Where the wind god represents diligence and resilience, he represents the hardship that gives meaning to strength. He is the stakes behind every victory, and the struggle leading to every resolution. He may not be the ends to anything, but he is the means to everything.
Adding to the pantheon could also serve as a narrative device to make your clerics become more complex. "You discover the study of a long dead scholar of Harinath, goddess of skies. Covering the desk are multiple open scrolls, streaked in what looks like dried blood. Upon reading the scrolls, you discover a new name: Kerothig. On parchment next to the scrolls you see this name over and over, but as a highly educated and devout believer, you have never heard of this figure. But reading these scrolls over and over you come to realize one thing: your impending apocalypse has already come and gone, because this god Kerothig WAS the true god of the skies, but destroyed by his sister, Harinath."
"The Cleric section is so long there's like 7 domains, you don't need 7!" In Pathfinder there's 30+ domains, and dozens more subdomains. And for Good/Evil/Law/Chaos there are dozens of minor to major gods dead and living that share the domain. Call it bloat if you want but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I haven't known about you for very long, Dael. Maybe a few weeks. In that time, my respect and admiration for you has doubled time and time and time and yet another time again. You are quite obviously well read, and it shows that you think critically about everything you read. I CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF YOUR VIDEOS!!!!! Not only do you have great information to share that comes from a very intelligent, imaginative, and intensely interesting (the three I's? with a fourth i to help drive the point home more for the third i) base, but you do so in a profoundly entertaining way. Simply put, I love your brain, and how you use it. I've played DnD for a long time; I'm currently in two games, with two great DM's. And still, I wish I lived in Australia and had the good fortune to be one of your players. No only do I wish I was your buddy, but I can tell what a great DM you must be - and with everything else stripped aside - just the sheer amount of research and work you do; your devotion to learning and EMPLOYING what you have learned is amazing. And you just seem like a really awesome person to spend time with. And if you ever find yourself to need/want to marry a complete stranger from America who isn't an asshole (I swear, they exist) I'm totally down to help you out. :) I just wanted to throw some good words your way because of all the enjoyment I've been getting from watching your videos lately. And when I choose to DM again, I will definitely be using some of your advice. The word you did on poisons and medicine is, quite frankly, brilliant. Have a wonderful day, week, month and year, and stay safe - or as you say, STAFE - and I hope you and yours stay unaffected with this pandemic. Thanks for everything!
I'm currently making a monotheistic religion for my D&D setting, and I'm having SO much fun coming up with prophets and aspects for that one god, this is such a nice video to just circle back to whenever I find myself in need of inspiration.
Someone probably already mentioned it, but the light domain is a nod to Middle Earth, where the prime god Eru Iluvatar is literally the embodiment of light. If you look at a light domain cleric closely, what you get is Gandalf.
Hello fellow none human! I have loved your series so far! I 10000% agree Gods/Pantheons can be super diverse. Regardless of whether it is from our perspective, past mythology, or even brand new mythology, who knows what is real or if there is more or less than what we think there is!
The creation myth has the 3-torso Titan where each torso made 13 gods, one making a set of virtues, one making gods of natural things, and one making gods of societal concerns. As they each made one they took the scraps and threw them into a pile, where the scraps combined to form a demon lord which was a corruption of the 3 gods from which it was formed. This means I have a huge pantheon, but one that breaks into subsets.
As someone who loves literature and writing in general, this is brilliant. Idk why, but I never thought of writing stories to flesh out my world's lore; and you outlined such a comprehensive guide for writing a pantheon's story. I love origin stories like this because they're universal; it makes for an easy fit for DnD. Just extrapolate the main points and it doesn't feel like a rip off but a believable story. Thanks for this video!
Not only do I now know how to make a pantheon for my world but you also gave me an idea for the plot of a story I’ve been struggling to figure out. Thanks for the vid! I shall follow your PATH
I made a god that I have yet to use that is actually the entire pantheon. It changes based on region and seasons (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter, Rainy, Dry) There is a part that is over arching and another part that specifically shapeshifters worship. The knowledge that it is all one god isn't so much hidden but more just not known by all but the most knowledgeable.
Not sure if this is totally accurate but Authority: Gandalf Harbour: Bilbo Purpose: Frodo Treachery: Gollum Which also goes to show that extremely important character don’t have to be part of the PATH like Sam, Aragorn and other characters are essential to the story and yet aren’t in the PATH.
I just stumbled across your channel during my writer's research on mythology tips (Irish & Scottish celtic & norse mythology) and found myself being 2 minutes into continously nodding at you on my screen as if sitting in class instead of my bed! 😳🤭 I love how you immediately point out the various aspects one deity can actually have! In my research so far it was the regional differences and mythological overlappings that helped me establishing it into my story. 😊
I studied Religion in college, and in my opinion the best theologian to describe the Numinous is Schleiermacher. Also you should check out The Invention of World Religions by Tomoko Masuzawa and also The Meaning and End of Religion by Wilfred Cantwell Smith. Both are very detailed studies of the way the TERMS we use to describe religion come from, all of which are influenced by 19th century euro-supremacy and translational revisionism. Have always enjoyed your videos. Thanks
My hack is that I find two seemingly unrelated gods, find an overlap and then pick a couple of their myths and treat them as though they were the same throughout. Two examples; Loki and Pandora. Loki takes on the guise of Pandora to betray the gods Epimetheus and Prometheus. But because Loki loves thinking things through forward and backward and then still follow his impulses, he also loves these two representations of forethought and afterthought, without being able to commit to them. Because he's conflicted about his actions and his attractions to both these gods and identifying with the role of a stepmother to humanity, Loki is now Loki-Pandor in my setting; patron of theatre and crises and fluid identity. Another example of Odin and Bacchus. In this version, I take Odin right after he conquers the Mead of Poetry and then make him go through the Bacchae as a powerdrunk god of ecstasy. It makes Odin and Bacchus feel far more dangerous and eldritch.
I started on a pantheon a long time ago that I've since abandoned. It was built around a basic idea of there being two queens. The sun goddess being associated with the evil side, burning and destroying crops with the moon being the good side, pleading with the sun for moderation, turning burning and destruction into warmth and growth. I'd gotten to the point of deciding on enough others to flesh out a collection representing a decent mix of deities for all the domains back in 3.5 D&D. Maybe I should go back to that and pick it up again and focus on a story to flesh out the mechanics I came up with.
The numenus really reminds me of a line from one of the MTG trailers for Theros (a roman/greek god plane dealio) "When does a heroes journey begin?... is it when you realize how small you are, compared to the vastness.. of what threatens to destroy you." I just love that line and how it's delivered
Damn. I really liked this. There's few things more enjoyable to listen to than genuinely passionate people who also happen to be knowledgable about their field
Wow..this is kinda great. I was working though my own pantheon where i cheated by just re-skinning the Babylonian and Assyrian deities from the AD&D Deities and Demigods tome. With your "hack" and 20 minutes of writing I was able to take that framework and build a whole new story that fit the world's history and I think will make the gods of my world something far more than just the faucet that supplies endless cure wounds spells.
Hello Dael, love your videos so much! Your video inspired me to do some DM prep that I think my players will love. I wrote a story of treachery from 4 different points of view and will give each to a player and let them see a different view of the story each. And the paladin who swore fielty to asmodeus and regret it is gonna read the events from Asmodeus' view, making him out to not be so bad a guy. I am sure you will have been the inspiration for an awesome moment at our table. Thank you!
This ought to be very helpful for one idea I've had bouncing around: a god of storms and trickery. I like how much it contrasts with Thor as a god of thunder. Basic inspiration: when things look strange and scary in the dark, then briefly illuminated by a flash of lightning. That mixture of disorientation and fear of the dark is what this god embodies. After watching this video, Treachery is definitely the right archetype for him. That said, I like the idea of him being a troll - he laughs at people being scared when they don't have to be. So he could also play a role of crucible - a dark test that heroes must surpass. So perhaps a god of fear, but also of courage being surpassing fear, not lacking fear?
I really like the base creation of Purpose , Authority, Treachery, Harbor. But also really like linking Authority with Order; and replacing treachery with Chaos. They're two contrasting ideals that are both not necessarily good or bad (depending on how they are structured). We've seen many stories where dystopian authorities are bad, or chaotic forces are destructive. But they also have good sides and I think that can offer some really interesting dynamics. Loved the video, super helpful to think about!
Dang, Dael, you have so much more thought and knowledge put into this stuff than all the other sources I see on pantheons. I mean, you quote Aldous Huxley and C.S. Lewis on building a fantasy pantheon. Seriously.
I might change the Light domain into a sort of "Hope" domain, (which will take some home-rebrewing for the subclass), but Nature will stay mostly because of their 6th and 8th level subclass feature which has nothing to do with wilderness
My homebrew setting has like three different human pantheons then there's the gods of the fantasy races and primordials ancient beings that predate and we're defeated the by the gods and are still worship in small pockets
I’ve been thinking in Triton civilizations today and this got me thinking how I might develop their pantheon, creation story, etc. Great vid, as always ☺️☺️☺️
I once made a halfling cleric of Sharess (Forgotten Realms minor goddess of lust/desire for those who don't know) with the light domain. He dressed like a miniature romance novel cover guy and focused on the light domain as hotness, beauty that draws people like moths to a flame, the warmth of touch, passion, looks that make one seem too hot to touch, and the fires (and acts) of creation. He was a lot of fun to play, though I do feel like the lack of a love/beauty/desire domain is a bit odd in D&D 5e
Often what I do whene I flesh out the gods in my world is I start with a raw concept, or source of awe. Like the Light of the Sun, or the Dark Depths of the see. I look at the way different cultures viewed those things, and how I personally feel when I think about such things, and construct a character around that concept.
There's a game called Dominions that allows the player to create a pretender god to fight other pretenders, and it has a brilliant setup where you can have your god as Imprisoned only awakening late into the game, Often used for buffs or innate bonuses to sacred units. Tends to have more points available to customise to compensate. Dormant, the god was just waiting and arrives to help your nation in half the time of the imprisoned one. A good variety of ways you can create this one. And generally the most popular kind. Halfway house in terms of points. Can be used as a powerful fighter or even as a research bonus focus. Awakened, available from the start, often a warlike god with a dragon or a wyrm for a body able to expand quickly. The least amount of points, which suggests the player wants to push aggressively. Or have a limited buff for early game sacred units And all of the god types are varied between the different kinds of nations you might want to play. So different cultures will have different gods and beliefs. Some nations are living undead, others are giants and so on. I mention this game because it's got such a good variety of formats the player can mess around with to customise the god to fit their nation. It's so good for people who have a good 100+ hours to spend on creative stuff and getting lost in lore.
This was brilliant! And so inspiring! As an avid philosophy and mythology student (and DM) this was right up my alley and exactly what I needed to kickstart a hurricane of ideas and intellectual thoughts about my own campaign's structure of deities. Really really enjoyed this video, it was a lot more academic (and as such felt much more substantial) than other D&D videos on this topic that I've seen. Thank you and you've got a new subscriber!
I completely forgot until your twitter followers reminded me, I’ve already used you to make a “pantheon”. I wanted a set number of gods with specific domains with each domain more or less important in terms of a specific person, a town, or a country. To do this, I used the SPERM acronym (and then I added two that I thought were missing). Social - Music, dance, love Political - judgement, law, civilization Economic - travel and trade Religion - life and death Military - war, strategy Nature - wilderness, mysticism Science - knowledge, ingenuity I think in this video you are approaching the pantheon from a story element, whereas I’m coming from a character element. I think both can come together to portray a deep believable pantheon.
If anybody was wondering, I used 7 because it reoccurs often and I like the brain exercise in trying to figure out which one goes where. Easy ones like days of the week (which were named after “planets” and gods), virtues/sins, visible colors... and hard ones like Ramona’s evil exes or the 7 dwarves. Some make more sense than others. I think of these 7 clusters and from there structure my towns, the politics, the lore and how it can be skewed to give a god a better or worse portrayal.
I have a Pantheon I've been working with for over a decade now. Tweaking here and there but mostly remaining as my standard homebrew setting deities. It's great to hear how others do it!
When making up a pantheon for my homebrew I looked at the PHB and SCAG, making a god for each divine domain. I made the god of Light the primary, but depending on where you are the belief in whom the god of Light was married to - in the Golden Planes the god of Light was married to the goddess of Nature, and the non-growing seasons was due to the god of Light being at the Capitol. At the Capitol he was considered to be pansexual, though was most often depicted with the goddess of Life.
You’re videos have been some of the most immensely helpful in making an immersive world and home rules that give dnd a more real and exciting feel. Thank you for you’re thorough and flavorful help, you’re fantastic
I wish I had known about this earlier, instead now I have a giant mess of Imperial sanctioned Deities, non-sanctioned Deities, weird Deities, and I don’t know what I’m doing anymore.
I unfortunately don't have a group to play with:( Nor do I have a computer to try and play online. However, I have created 6 different lvl 1 characters in case I found a group. One of my characters is: A Female Astral Elf Anthropologist background Paladin planning Oath of Conquest. Her primary goals are to conquer a part of the Mortal/Material Plane & establish a New Queendom that will hopefully last for eons. Included with that Queendom is a New Pantheon primarily made up of Lost/Dead/Weakened Deities combining them together woth different spheres of influence. 1 of the primary Deities' would be Garagos as the War Deity combined with other Lost/Dead/Weakened War Deities. Other Deities would be similar, although certain already established/honored deities could be included. THOUGH, they would be increased in power by Lost/Dead/Weakened Deities merged with them. An example of already Honored Deity possibly being merged: You honor the Raven Queen as your Death Deity & merge a lesser (possibly nearly lost) deity like Myrkul with her increasing her Power/Influence. Basically, I was somewhat inspired to create this character by real life "Alexander the Great" and his General "Ptolemy" when he conquered Egypt & created the Demotic Deities that where a merging of the Greco-Roman & Egyptian Deities.
I've no clue who first said it but one of my favorite quotes is "God created man, and man created God". Meaning of course a god's power and indeed very existence depend upon people's belief in them.
Something terribly explained in DnD is that the Light domain encompasses: Fertility, Joy, Positivity, Music, Enlightenment, Innocence, Beauty, Light, Fire, the Sun, Dawn, Dusk, Comfort, and Kindness. Basically anything that brings "light" into the world. Any deity that has the Light Domain pulls from those ideas and reffers to "The Light" in the context of what part of that domain they are taking. Oath of the Ancients Paladins are devoted to the metaphysical parts of the Light Domain. They bless babies, learn bardic traditions, host festivals, destroy tyrants, hold the door for people, keep the stage candle going, ect. All the little things that make life a little kinder.
So what I'm playing around with is the three ladies, basically the hags from the witcher 3. I like the idea of gods being akin to a pig farmer, giving us shelter and feeding us, but hags still need to feed off of misery and suffering, but they can't do it too much or they're gonna run their larders dry. So I think it's a pretty good metaphor for nature, gifts and danger. With Pelor and the gang impeding as a new foreign religion, they're not all good either, doing witch burnings and stuff. Pick your poison. This whole domain stuff is new to me though, haven't bought any 5e stuff for fear of them releasing a 6th edition, to my understanding it's mostly spell stuff and I run a low magic setting so I dunno how useful it is to me.
This work is so thoughtful and subtle - it is so helpful to try and minimize cultural connotations and not fall into the good/evil dichotomy. Kingsmill's labels really help in that regard.
Story, archtype, domain, aspect. I love it. Fantastic video. It's funny, in reflection about my pantheon I recognise that the deities my players gravitated towards were the ones with more tangible and impactful stories. I hadn't quite worked out why they went towards the Gods they did, but it makes sense now.
Great video, topic and explanations. About the Numinous; You spend a lot of time describing the thing and very little time motivating the relevance of the idea. I'd love examples of how you apply this concept, because that particular thing is what you'd love to capture, when you have a player who decides to delve into mythology and god-lore. The Cleric is driven by this awe, so is the madman. What's your experience with creating, implementing and successfully conveying the numinous? That Hack though? Really solid stuff. Took me a couple of minutes to get the hang of "harbour", but it got there, and I'm applying these to the wounds that remain from the torn-out spreadsheet of deities in my home setting. Thank you!
Never thought I would ever hear the term "mysterium tremendum" in a D&D video. Dael, you are a magnificent nerd! Although, it only means the terrible aspect of the the holy. Its counterpart would be the "mysterium fascinosum".
Those words also make a good acronym!
Purpose
Authority
Treachery
Harbor
Walk the PATH and you'll have a Pantheon.
+1000 internets
I'm laughing so hard, that's so much smarter than mine - I was using the acronym PHAT in my head, and going "yeah, it's phat like it's cool", yours is so much better, I'm dying
@@MonarchsFactory Haha, well it's yours now! Thanks for the video, I'm now going to take my pantheon spreadsheet and see what Phat Paths they will walk!
I was also thinking PHAT. From the channel that taught us how to create towns via the SPERM method, PHAT fits in well.
@@raykendo Do... Do I wanna know what the sperm method is?
Lion King Pantheon:
Mufasa- Authority
Rafiki- Harbor
Simba- Purpose
Scar- Treachery
Well, the Lion King is basically Hamlet, which she mentioned...
I’d say Nala is harbour but more or less yeah
Timon and Pumba should be Harbor, lets be honest.
Wow, now I get it!
"Why is there a Domain of Light?"
I feel pretty sure it's because the DevTeam want to get away from the way religion actually works. They *want* domains that don't bear any real association with the human experience. Basically, the way Blizzard does it. "How can we implement religion without offending anyone?" Well, you do it in the most meaningless, content-free way possible.
It's a shame, because I think the domain of Light really does have a place as one focused on prophecy and understanding. It could be a different direction from which to approach the Knowledge domain, less academic and more meditative. Give it some divination spells, not just "let's give the Cleric fireball with this one."
For me the Light domain resembles a multitude of things; good & rightousness, fire and warmth & truth. It is a bit much but it would fit a god of protection.
@@KimKimeraKimes
Or a god of knowledge, inspiration. Think of "light" in a more metaphorical sense.
I don't agree. Or rather I wish I could say I don't think you're right but then I don't have 20 something years in the industry. That said, I imagine the Light domain speaks to very comfortable mythological standard of Light vs Darkness. Where "the Dark" is that scary unknown time between sundown and sun up where we can only have so many torches. A god of Light would be incredibly comforting, and SOMEONE must have created that big hot, bright thing in the sky.
Or it could be (big G) God is copywritten material and the developers don't want to get sued by the Bishop of Rome. But I like my answer better.
Light can be cold, too. Especially when connected to “order”. Think of what Nietzsche said about the Apollonian vs the Dionysian.
I've been following you for just under a year and I only just realized... King's Mill.... Monarch's Factory... brilliant.
Well that's interesting, thanks for pointing that out.
that never occured to me either.
Son of a...
Really? I figured that was obvious. I'm legit surprised so many people never thought of it.
@@KaiserSoze679 i dont think of the word mill much. and i didnt think of it like a factory but i guess they both produce things.
"If you just start listing off gods attached to domains, it's going to feel like a spreadsheet."
_Me, looking up from the spreadsheet where I am writing about my gods:_ 😳
Lol me too
I'd say listening them out on a spreadsheet or google docs is fine but when you adapt it into a story/world that's when you don't want it to feel like you're reading it from a spreadsheet. Personally, I don't really play DnD but I'm writing a fantasy world and I intend to introduce the gods in a meaningful way through the story; usually as a myth or by showing worshippers praying to an aspect of the god.
Almost by coincidence I created a similar version of "the one good story" when I made my pantheon for my game a year ago.
That story being that originally there were two gods, Corona and Cronotch, the goddess of light and creation and the god of darkness and time respectively. After the two of them created the universe Corona fell asleep forever (she was tired) and left Cronotch to rule everything, including their eight godly children, four sons, and four daughters.
But being the god of time Cronotch knew of a prophecy that four of his children would rise up and destroy him, taking his throne for themselves. He assumed it would be his boisterous and rowdy sons so he invited them all to a party and when they were all very drunk he one by one lured his sons into a giant pestle and mortar and ground them up into dust, before them scattering that dust to the wind.
The four sisters. mourning their brothers each traveled in different directions to collect the remains of their brothers, they placed each speck of dust in the sky to hang there forever (this is how the stars came to be). Along their journey each sister found or made a different weapon from a different materiel. A staff of Oak, A Shield of Stone, A sword of Silver, and A Spear of Gold. Using these weapons the sisters destroyed their father, thus bringing the prophecy to pass, and the four sisters divided up the world among themselves. Each taking their favorite places from their journey as their domain. But not only did that leave most of the earth neutral, they also noticed that wherever their father's blood hit something that something became a sentient creature (elves, dwarves, humans, all those guys). And so rather then fight about who should claim them they decided that each of them should rule three months out of every year. Their names then became the names for the seasons, Spring with her Staff of Oak (goddess of Fertility and Wilderness), Autumn with her Shield of Stone (goddess of Wisdom and Knowledge), Winter with her Sword of Silver (goddess of the Underworld and Judgement), and Summer with her Spear of Gold (goddess of Storms and the Sky).
Similar, its possible it misses a few of those elements though.
This story's got everything: creation story, self fulfilling prophecies, explanations for why things in the world are as such, and hints at artifacts the players may or may not encounter.
That's a great story!
Wow that’s a beautiful story.
Thank you, all of you. I very much appreciate that you guys like it.
uhhh when did corona fall asleep? asking for a friend
(im a friend)
"I'm so worldly" *waves her hair*
I love this woman
i have no idea what word she used just before though
@@jaebedo1599 That'll be the Frenchness of it assailing your mind :D.
@@dallassukerkin6878 that's the thing : i AM french, and i still can't understand D:
Is it supposed to be like a french pronunciation of "the hack" ?
Or is it a english joke i am too french to understand ?
@@jaebedo1599 :grins: I took it be a joke, Jae :). To pretend to say something in a foreign language and follow it up with the little self-praising phrase :D.
I am the God of finding highly enjoyable videos years after they were posted, and I endorse this content.
One of the best pantheons I've seen is in the Magnus Archives podcast series, where SPOILERS the "gods" are eldritch nightmares that embody fear. Throughout the series, characters theorise on the nature of these entities and how they came to be and how they overlap. One of the analogies used for them is colour: they aren't truly separate beings but really all just aspects of one massive spectrum of fear, distinct as red is distinct from orange, but also connected in a way that you can't really define the point where one becomes the other. An example of this is The Stranger (fear of the unknown, the uncanny, things that are almost human but not quite and masks) and The Spiral (fear of madness, delusion, lies, that your reality is wrong). At what point does the mask of The Stranger become the deception of The Spiral?
Me: cobbling together a Scion campaign.
Dael: I have thoughts about gods.
Me: Yes please. Thank you thank you thank you.
Out of curiosity, which edition of Scion are you using?
@@sheetedkid I was a fan of 1st Edition, but the ridiculous power creep kept me from committing. Then I heard 2nd Edition dropped and I like the redesign so far!
Same! Working on a Homebrew 5e setting, and this kinda... put words to the ideas I've been bashing fruitlessly together
@@sonjaquan5775 Is it called Scion 2nd Edition?
Another important thing to remember is that a realistic mythology, like a realistic culture, has a history. Their present forms likely did not spring fully formed out of Zeus' head (unless, of course, you decide that they did). The present form of a culture will have hints of different substrates, from all its previous forms and interactions with other cultures. This is reflected in their mythology.
If you want a good example of how this looks and feels, a good sense of a people's changing interactions with their gods, I can't recommend Mary Renault highly enough, starting with The King Must Die. It's set in a highly speculative and romanticized Bronze Age Greece, perfect fantasy inspiration. The rest of her novels track the development of the Greek World, through the Archaic and into the Classical eras, finally culminating with the campaigns of Alexander. It's a great study in a culture, as well as a number of fascinating characters. Very good reading.
"Their present forms likely did not spring fully formed out of Zeus' head" Isn't that exactly what Athena did? :p
Being serious though, I totally agree. I actually have a lot of different pantheons in my own world based on the same gods seen by different cultures. Some are incredibly similar, while others are wildly different interpretations.
In the words of Carl Sagan.
If you want to make a pie from scratch first you have to create the universe.
So I guess if you want to make a god from scratch just bake a pie from scratch, it'll make you a god.
Bein' able to make a good pie does make one fairly godlike
ruclips.net/video/zSgiXGELjbc/видео.html
@@MonarchsFactory Now why'd you have to go make me cry. Treachery!
You're not wrong.
The whole thing about man being made in God's image is about man's ability to create something from nothing. Like, baking a pie.
Well that and probably having a sense of morality.
"Contrary" may substitute for "Treachery" in a story where malice isn't involved.
"Opposition" could be a good word
I totally misread this as "Designing Goods From Scratch" and was so excited for a video on worldbuilding weird and wonderful trade goods 😅
Uhh excuse me, I came here for an informative video about gods
Not to be scared by a spooky skeleton
0/10, 2 spooky for me
I quite enjoyed the more academic feel of this video. I'd definitely be interested in more lecture-esque type videos like this in the future.
seconded! I love some learning with my tips for fun ways to roll dice.
The upside of listening to your videos on the drive home is that it makes it fun. The downside is that then I am stuck in my car with a million ideas I need to write down and no chance to do so!
8:55 *looks at my excel pantheon spreadsheet*
idk what you talkin about
Wow the Authority, harbour, treachery and purpose is the best explanation of pantheon origin stories
When I created my own pantheon for Tholl, I wanted the Gods to have multiple names each. An ancient name (known by scholars and other experts), a common nickname (known by peasants, tribesmen, travelers, etc.) and some sort of aspect that would give each one control or interest into more than one thing. That way several cultures or species might be worshiping the same god, but by different names and for different things.
An example might be Verdriette. The Maiden of Sorrow. She Walks Between. The Whisper of Death. To gladiators in the coloseums of the Juvian Order, she is the quick death, and the chooser of the slain. To the Elves of Northern Eolas, she is the end of grief (the reason it becomes easier to deal with loss over time, as it is believed that she takes on the burden of loss as you learn to cope.) Priests might invoke her for funerals, while healers might invoke her to end pain when administering balms and herbs. She is both the reason you cry and the reason you stop. She is both loss and mercy, dark and benevolent in her way, and thoroughly misunderstood. No one, not even the other gods, would take on her portfolio. None could bear the grief she witnesses each day.
I know what the text says about Light but I've always head-canoned it as Power/Judgement. This cleric gets sent in when wrath has been stoked and the god wants to send a message to the blasphemers or to demonstrate the sheer magnitude of the god's divinity. Even the Warding Flare feature leans into this as a defensive measure against those who would strike against the god's messenger or their allies.
I need a gif of "Apparently I have OPINIONS on the topic"
I feel like you're right on the money when it comes to the modern perspective easily becomes very "elemental." I never thought about it that way.
If one wanted to do a more "elemental" pantheon, which is in many ways apt for D&D considering how the world itself is structured, I think one could easily just do both. Vulcan was the god of blacksmiths and the forge, but _also_ of fire and volcanoes. Thor is the god of strength and protection (among many other things), but he's _also_ the thunderer. Gods of "light" could also be gods of the arts or the sun or justice. Deities that people could realistically venerate (not just to get cool magic spells).
Fantastic advice about "the one good story" too! Thank you! Definitely using that.
When developing a pantheon for my D&D games, I took inspiration from gamers within an MMORPG space, and made a three sided structure: Command, Collaboration and Chaos.
Command = want to be in control of everything that happens in the narrative of the world
Collaboration = want to experience the flow and journey of the narrative of the world
Chaos = only interested in mucking around and having fun with the world
The Light domain is more than just light, though. It's also fire. You get a lot of fire spells. That ties it into blacksmith gods (who, yes, are also Forge domain, don't @ me). It ties into figures like Prometheus, who stole fire and gave it to humans. It ties into gods of destruction, and of cleansing. Even Hestia, goddess of the hearth, might count as a Light domain goddess, because of the associations with hearthfire.
Even just light itself ties into any solar, lunar, and star deities. Apollo, Ra, Amaterasu, Quetzalcoatl, etc. Any culture that values agriculture - which is most cultures that become powerful to form major nation states - will put stock in two kinds of deities: Solar deities and Harvest deities.
Speaking of harvest, that's why you have the Nature domain, and not just the Wilderness domain. "Wilderness" is more specific than is useful for a Cleric class meant to model believers in all sorts of divinity. Pan would certainly be a Nature domain god, but so would Demeter, and even Dionysis (god of the vine). Agriculture is Nature that has been tamed and bent to "civilized" ends.
Most of the domains you say it ties into are already their own domain. Destruction, Fire, Protection (hearthfire), even the Sun domain.
Yes ma'am, this post. This post is the one to end all posts.
In my games I've tried to run Light less as just the Light spell or Daylight or the sun or fire, and more like revealing something's true nature or making something right. In this way, it ties in with justice and good more than it does law or divinity. Kicking a usurper off the throne, sparing a few gold for the peasants, telling the truth even when it doesn't benefit you because the person hearing it deserves the truth, bringing secrets to light, (Pun intended). So by these guidelines Prometheus would be a servant of the light, not because he brings fire to the Humans, but because he risked his life and reputation and later accepted terrible punishment by disobeying an apathetic authority because he believed it was the right thing to do and he believed Humans deserved a fighting chance.
@@theStormWeaver You must be referring to different editions of the game. 5e doesn't have those. It has Light, Knowledge, Life, War, Tempest, Nature, Trickery, Death, Forge, Grave, and Order (the last three coming from supplements).
Everything is a part of “nature.” That’s the issue. It’s too broad
Old Norse specialist Dr. Jackson Crawford has made the same or similar perspective on the Norse pantheon. They were personalities first with an anthropological history, and then aspects and elementalism were tacked on later, partly by comparison with the Roman functionalist ideas.
Also, if you can get hold of a copy of "Lord of Light" by Roger Zelazny, the novel is a telling of this process in personal forms. The gods are actual people with real people personalities, and their aspects and attributes are acquisitions evolved from their own personal tendencies after the fact. It's bloody brilliant, ironical, funny, romantic, mystical, and all the good things that Zelazny could do to you. It's grownup sci-fi/fantasy.
@@DaDunge You’re probably right but I’m a little confused because i’ve read something else, do you have the sources for Frey and Freya coming from Frö, and for Odin and Baldr being imported?
4 years later..... I appreciate the hell out of this video. Currently running a monotheistic campaign where the players along with some fallen angels, who fall into the 4 archetypes, attempt to overthrow and kill the one god. Then expanding the world into a full blown pantheon from there with the angels and PCs, giving the players a chance to immortalize their first characters in my world. So I would hope in future campaigns they would feel connected to the gods as players instead of just casually picking one with no meaning behind it.
Fantastic!
And the best part of mythology is when the roles get switched around in later stories.
Even works for the Iron Kingdoms:
Authority: Menoth
Harbour: Dhunia
Purpose: Morrow
Treachery: Thamar
When designing gods I pondered; what for cultural impact would it have if the main god of the dwarves was female? Would more women attend the forge then men? Would the women be like; "I crafted this beautiful hammer with the likeness of my pa, I crafted this baby for nine whole months and now I am back at the forge to craft a sword to smite some goblins!"
I like your mention of horizons as a numinous. It's one of those things that I've had experimenting in my head place for a minute. The whole idea of adventure and death are wrapped up in the uncertainty of what is beyond the Western horizon. It's the direction of the Hesperides, where Odysseus went on his final voyage, and where the Egyptians believed the land of the dead was. A very vague and provocative direction.
Hearing you say Zeus was a god of justice made me laugh out loud.
I really want to see the unabridged (unedited) version of this video. It is so obvious that she cares deeply about it and I could loose an hour+ listening to it.
Zeus as a god of justice is kind of dark when considering all the messed up things he did.
I loved that secular description of the numinous btw. Interesting to phrase it that way.
This helped me a lot with fleshing out the religion of a project I'm worldbuilding. I had a fairly solid idea of who the 4 main gods were in function, but I didn't have any idea who they were as characters. While they are supposed to be fairly abstract, being the twisted remains of an ancient, half forgotten pantheon, I did still need some stories about them to provide depth.
What I'm currently thinking is that the death god represent authority, as they are the final authority on all matters. The storm/monsoon god is treachery, as he often claims souls meant for the death god, brings water that defies the desert god, and is the only force capable of disrupting the order presented by the wind god. The wind god is harbor, as he is the patron and symbol of the entire region, and provides diligence and order needed to survive the otherwise inhospitable land. And finally, the desert god is purpose. Where the wind god represents diligence and resilience, he represents the hardship that gives meaning to strength. He is the stakes behind every victory, and the struggle leading to every resolution. He may not be the ends to anything, but he is the means to everything.
Adding to the pantheon could also serve as a narrative device to make your clerics become more complex.
"You discover the study of a long dead scholar of Harinath, goddess of skies. Covering the desk are multiple open scrolls, streaked in what looks like dried blood. Upon reading the scrolls, you discover a new name: Kerothig. On parchment next to the scrolls you see this name over and over, but as a highly educated and devout believer, you have never heard of this figure. But reading these scrolls over and over you come to realize one thing: your impending apocalypse has already come and gone, because this god Kerothig WAS the true god of the skies, but destroyed by his sister, Harinath."
"The Cleric section is so long there's like 7 domains, you don't need 7!"
In Pathfinder there's 30+ domains, and dozens more subdomains. And for Good/Evil/Law/Chaos there are dozens of minor to major gods dead and living that share the domain. Call it bloat if you want but I wouldn't have it any other way.
I haven't known about you for very long, Dael. Maybe a few weeks. In that time, my respect and admiration for you has doubled time and time and time and yet another time again. You are quite obviously well read, and it shows that you think critically about everything you read. I CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF YOUR VIDEOS!!!!!
Not only do you have great information to share that comes from a very intelligent, imaginative, and intensely interesting (the three I's? with a fourth i to help drive the point home more for the third i) base, but you do so in a profoundly entertaining way. Simply put, I love your brain, and how you use it.
I've played DnD for a long time; I'm currently in two games, with two great DM's. And still, I wish I lived in Australia and had the good fortune to be one of your players. No only do I wish I was your buddy, but I can tell what a great DM you must be - and with everything else stripped aside - just the sheer amount of research and work you do; your devotion to learning and EMPLOYING what you have learned is amazing. And you just seem like a really awesome person to spend time with. And if you ever find yourself to need/want to marry a complete stranger from America who isn't an asshole (I swear, they exist) I'm totally down to help you out. :)
I just wanted to throw some good words your way because of all the enjoyment I've been getting from watching your videos lately. And when I choose to DM again, I will definitely be using some of your advice. The word you did on poisons and medicine is, quite frankly, brilliant. Have a wonderful day, week, month and year, and stay safe - or as you say, STAFE - and I hope you and yours stay unaffected with this pandemic.
Thanks for everything!
I'm currently making a monotheistic religion for my D&D setting, and I'm having SO much fun coming up with prophets and aspects for that one god, this is such a nice video to just circle back to whenever I find myself in need of inspiration.
Someone probably already mentioned it, but the light domain is a nod to Middle Earth, where the prime god Eru Iluvatar is literally the embodiment of light. If you look at a light domain cleric closely, what you get is Gandalf.
You've just won yourself a subscriber.
Hello fellow none human! I have loved your series so far! I 10000% agree Gods/Pantheons can be super diverse. Regardless of whether it is from our perspective, past mythology, or even brand new mythology, who knows what is real or if there is more or less than what we think there is!
Man alive, I could listen to you talking mythology all day. That passion!
My grandson shared your video with me. You are inspirational!
The creation myth has the 3-torso Titan where each torso made 13 gods, one making a set of virtues, one making gods of natural things, and one making gods of societal concerns. As they each made one they took the scraps and threw them into a pile, where the scraps combined to form a demon lord which was a corruption of the 3 gods from which it was formed. This means I have a huge pantheon, but one that breaks into subsets.
As someone who loves literature and writing in general, this is brilliant. Idk why, but I never thought of writing stories to flesh out my world's lore; and you outlined such a comprehensive guide for writing a pantheon's story. I love origin stories like this because they're universal; it makes for an easy fit for DnD. Just extrapolate the main points and it doesn't feel like a rip off but a believable story. Thanks for this video!
Not only do I now know how to make a pantheon for my world but you also gave me an idea for the plot of a story I’ve been struggling to figure out. Thanks for the vid! I shall follow your PATH
I'm playing a quasi-deity character right now and this video helped me a lot! 🙂
I made a god that I have yet to use that is actually the entire pantheon. It changes based on region and seasons (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter, Rainy, Dry) There is a part that is over arching and another part that specifically shapeshifters worship. The knowledge that it is all one god isn't so much hidden but more just not known by all but the most knowledgeable.
Loved the rubik's cube on the background
Not sure if this is totally accurate but
Authority: Gandalf
Harbour: Bilbo
Purpose: Frodo
Treachery: Gollum
Which also goes to show that extremely important character don’t have to be part of the PATH like Sam, Aragorn and other characters are essential to the story and yet aren’t in the PATH.
The auto generate transcript has a lot of fun with each time you say gods. Holy shit google...
I just stumbled across your channel during my writer's research on mythology tips (Irish & Scottish celtic & norse mythology) and found myself being 2 minutes into continously nodding at you on my screen as if sitting in class instead of my bed! 😳🤭 I love how you immediately point out the various aspects one deity can actually have! In my research so far it was the regional differences and mythological overlappings that helped me establishing it into my story. 😊
I studied Religion in college, and in my opinion the best theologian to describe the Numinous is Schleiermacher.
Also you should check out The Invention of World Religions by Tomoko Masuzawa and also The Meaning and End of Religion by Wilfred Cantwell Smith. Both are very detailed studies of the way the TERMS we use to describe religion come from, all of which are influenced by 19th century euro-supremacy and translational revisionism.
Have always enjoyed your videos. Thanks
My hack is that I find two seemingly unrelated gods, find an overlap and then pick a couple of their myths and treat them as though they were the same throughout.
Two examples; Loki and Pandora. Loki takes on the guise of Pandora to betray the gods Epimetheus and Prometheus. But because Loki loves thinking things through forward and backward and then still follow his impulses, he also loves these two representations of forethought and afterthought, without being able to commit to them. Because he's conflicted about his actions and his attractions to both these gods and identifying with the role of a stepmother to humanity, Loki is now Loki-Pandor in my setting; patron of theatre and crises and fluid identity.
Another example of Odin and Bacchus. In this version, I take Odin right after he conquers the Mead of Poetry and then make him go through the Bacchae as a powerdrunk god of ecstasy. It makes Odin and Bacchus feel far more dangerous and eldritch.
I think this is very very good advice. I have come up with slightly different names for these categories that work for me but it's all your idea.
More C. S. Lewis quotes! And from his greatest work, too!
There is just something awesome about Lewis quotes in a DnD video.
I started on a pantheon a long time ago that I've since abandoned. It was built around a basic idea of there being two queens. The sun goddess being associated with the evil side, burning and destroying crops with the moon being the good side, pleading with the sun for moderation, turning burning and destruction into warmth and growth. I'd gotten to the point of deciding on enough others to flesh out a collection representing a decent mix of deities for all the domains back in 3.5 D&D. Maybe I should go back to that and pick it up again and focus on a story to flesh out the mechanics I came up with.
I just opened this video for hombrew research, never seen any of your videos, but after 10 minutes you gained a follower. Love the work!
The numenus really reminds me of a line from one of the MTG trailers for Theros (a roman/greek god plane dealio) "When does a heroes journey begin?... is it when you realize how small you are, compared to the vastness.. of what threatens to destroy you." I just love that line and how it's delivered
Damn. I really liked this. There's few things more enjoyable to listen to than genuinely passionate people who also happen to be knowledgable about their field
Wow..this is kinda great. I was working though my own pantheon where i cheated by just re-skinning the Babylonian and Assyrian deities from the AD&D Deities and Demigods tome. With your "hack" and 20 minutes of writing I was able to take that framework and build a whole new story that fit the world's history and I think will make the gods of my world something far more than just the faucet that supplies endless cure wounds spells.
Hello Dael, love your videos so much!
Your video inspired me to do some DM prep that I think my players will love.
I wrote a story of treachery from 4 different points of view and will give each to a player and let them see a different view of the story each. And the paladin who swore fielty to asmodeus and regret it is gonna read the events from Asmodeus' view, making him out to not be so bad a guy. I am sure you will have been the inspiration for an awesome moment at our table. Thank you!
This ought to be very helpful for one idea I've had bouncing around: a god of storms and trickery. I like how much it contrasts with Thor as a god of thunder. Basic inspiration: when things look strange and scary in the dark, then briefly illuminated by a flash of lightning. That mixture of disorientation and fear of the dark is what this god embodies.
After watching this video, Treachery is definitely the right archetype for him. That said, I like the idea of him being a troll - he laughs at people being scared when they don't have to be. So he could also play a role of crucible - a dark test that heroes must surpass. So perhaps a god of fear, but also of courage being surpassing fear, not lacking fear?
This is exactly what I am looking for, very interesting and well worded!
Discovered this from an old Matt video where he shouted you out. Looking forward to delving into the rest of your oeuvre!
My friend just sent me your video about collecting materials from the wild and I've fallen down the rabbit hole and I love this channel already
I really like the base creation of Purpose
, Authority, Treachery, Harbor.
But also really like linking Authority with Order; and replacing treachery with Chaos.
They're two contrasting ideals that are both not necessarily good or bad (depending on how they are structured).
We've seen many stories where dystopian authorities are bad, or chaotic forces are destructive.
But they also have good sides and I think that can offer some really interesting dynamics.
Loved the video, super helpful to think about!
Dang, Dael, you have so much more thought and knowledge put into this stuff than all the other sources I see on pantheons. I mean, you quote Aldous Huxley and C.S. Lewis on building a fantasy pantheon. Seriously.
Very well spoken and read! Thank you, I needed this!
I might change the Light domain into a sort of "Hope" domain, (which will take some home-rebrewing for the subclass), but Nature will stay mostly because of their 6th and 8th level subclass feature which has nothing to do with wilderness
My homebrew setting has like three different human pantheons then there's the gods of the fantasy races and primordials ancient beings that predate and we're defeated the by the gods and are still worship in small pockets
I’ve been thinking in Triton civilizations today and this got me thinking how I might develop their pantheon, creation story, etc. Great vid, as always ☺️☺️☺️
As soon as you started talking about nominous, my first thought was "I wonder if she's read Lewis on this." Not disappointed in the least.
I once made a halfling cleric of Sharess (Forgotten Realms minor goddess of lust/desire for those who don't know) with the light domain. He dressed like a miniature romance novel cover guy and focused on the light domain as hotness, beauty that draws people like moths to a flame, the warmth of touch, passion, looks that make one seem too hot to touch, and the fires (and acts) of creation. He was a lot of fun to play, though I do feel like the lack of a love/beauty/desire domain is a bit odd in D&D 5e
Often what I do whene I flesh out the gods in my world is I start with a raw concept, or source of awe. Like the Light of the Sun, or the Dark Depths of the see. I look at the way different cultures viewed those things, and how I personally feel when I think about such things, and construct a character around that concept.
There's a game called Dominions that allows the player to create a pretender god to fight other pretenders, and it has a brilliant setup where you can have your god as
Imprisoned only awakening late into the game, Often used for buffs or innate bonuses to sacred units. Tends to have more points available to customise to compensate.
Dormant, the god was just waiting and arrives to help your nation in half the time of the imprisoned one. A good variety of ways you can create this one. And generally the most popular kind. Halfway house in terms of points. Can be used as a powerful fighter or even as a research bonus focus.
Awakened, available from the start, often a warlike god with a dragon or a wyrm for a body able to expand quickly. The least amount of points, which suggests the player wants to push aggressively. Or have a limited buff for early game sacred units
And all of the god types are varied between the different kinds of nations you might want to play.
So different cultures will have different gods and beliefs.
Some nations are living undead, others are giants and so on.
I mention this game because it's got such a good variety of formats the player can mess around with to customise the god to fit their nation. It's so good for people who have a good 100+ hours to spend on creative stuff and getting lost in lore.
This was brilliant! And so inspiring! As an avid philosophy and mythology student (and DM) this was right up my alley and exactly what I needed to kickstart a hurricane of ideas and intellectual thoughts about my own campaign's structure of deities. Really really enjoyed this video, it was a lot more academic (and as such felt much more substantial) than other D&D videos on this topic that I've seen. Thank you and you've got a new subscriber!
I completely forgot until your twitter followers reminded me, I’ve already used you to make a “pantheon”. I wanted a set number of gods with specific domains with each domain more or less important in terms of a specific person, a town, or a country. To do this, I used the SPERM acronym (and then I added two that I thought were missing).
Social - Music, dance, love
Political - judgement, law, civilization
Economic - travel and trade
Religion - life and death
Military - war, strategy
Nature - wilderness, mysticism
Science - knowledge, ingenuity
I think in this video you are approaching the pantheon from a story element, whereas I’m coming from a character element. I think both can come together to portray a deep believable pantheon.
If anybody was wondering, I used 7 because it reoccurs often and I like the brain exercise in trying to figure out which one goes where. Easy ones like days of the week (which were named after “planets” and gods), virtues/sins, visible colors... and hard ones like Ramona’s evil exes or the 7 dwarves. Some make more sense than others. I think of these 7 clusters and from there structure my towns, the politics, the lore and how it can be skewed to give a god a better or worse portrayal.
The kids from The Umbrella Academy is one of my favorites.
I have a Pantheon I've been working with for over a decade now. Tweaking here and there but mostly remaining as my standard homebrew setting deities. It's great to hear how others do it!
This video + Epic how to start a religion's video = Probably me drunk with power making Pikachu a God of thunder...
Thank you so much. Harbour, purpose, treachery, authority. It's great to have a reference point when letting your madness become beauty.
When making up a pantheon for my homebrew I looked at the PHB and SCAG, making a god for each divine domain. I made the god of Light the primary, but depending on where you are the belief in whom the god of Light was married to - in the Golden Planes the god of Light was married to the goddess of Nature, and the non-growing seasons was due to the god of Light being at the Capitol. At the Capitol he was considered to be pansexual, though was most often depicted with the goddess of Life.
I just discovered your channel and found some interesting videos, but now, quoting C. S. Lewis on the numonious and awe? Sign me up!!
Your hair is simply majestic in this video, Dael!
Also, it's always nice to see how your face brightens up when you talk about mythology.
You’re videos have been some of the most immensely helpful in making an immersive world and home rules that give dnd a more real and exciting feel. Thank you for you’re thorough and flavorful help, you’re fantastic
the domain of light was so clerics could get fireball
I wish I had known about this earlier, instead now I have a giant mess of Imperial sanctioned Deities, non-sanctioned Deities, weird Deities, and I don’t know what I’m doing anymore.
This is the single best resource on the subject. Just an opinion. But definitely the best
Aside from the ideas and their elegant presentation, I am massively impressed with the editing.
I unfortunately don't have a group to play with:(
Nor do I have a computer to try and play online.
However, I have created 6 different lvl 1 characters in case I found a group.
One of my characters is: A Female Astral Elf Anthropologist background Paladin planning Oath of Conquest. Her primary goals are to conquer a part of the Mortal/Material Plane & establish a New Queendom that will hopefully last for eons. Included with that Queendom is a New Pantheon primarily made up of Lost/Dead/Weakened Deities combining them together woth different spheres of influence. 1 of the primary Deities' would be Garagos as the War Deity combined with other Lost/Dead/Weakened War Deities. Other Deities would be similar, although certain already established/honored deities could be included. THOUGH, they would be increased in power by Lost/Dead/Weakened Deities merged with them.
An example of already Honored Deity possibly being merged: You honor the Raven Queen as your Death Deity & merge a lesser (possibly nearly lost) deity like Myrkul with her increasing her Power/Influence.
Basically, I was somewhat inspired to create this character by real life "Alexander the Great" and his General "Ptolemy" when he conquered Egypt & created the Demotic Deities that where a merging of the Greco-Roman & Egyptian Deities.
I've no clue who first said it but one of my favorite quotes is "God created man, and man created God". Meaning of course a god's power and indeed very existence depend upon people's belief in them.
Something terribly explained in DnD is that the Light domain encompasses: Fertility, Joy, Positivity, Music, Enlightenment, Innocence, Beauty, Light, Fire, the Sun, Dawn, Dusk, Comfort, and Kindness. Basically anything that brings "light" into the world. Any deity that has the Light Domain pulls from those ideas and reffers to "The Light" in the context of what part of that domain they are taking.
Oath of the Ancients Paladins are devoted to the metaphysical parts of the Light Domain. They bless babies, learn bardic traditions, host festivals, destroy tyrants, hold the door for people, keep the stage candle going, ect. All the little things that make life a little kinder.
So what I'm playing around with is the three ladies, basically the hags from the witcher 3. I like the idea of gods being akin to a pig farmer, giving us shelter and feeding us, but hags still need to feed off of misery and suffering, but they can't do it too much or they're gonna run their larders dry. So I think it's a pretty good metaphor for nature, gifts and danger.
With Pelor and the gang impeding as a new foreign religion, they're not all good either, doing witch burnings and stuff. Pick your poison.
This whole domain stuff is new to me though, haven't bought any 5e stuff for fear of them releasing a 6th edition, to my understanding it's mostly spell stuff and I run a low magic setting so I dunno how useful it is to me.
This work is so thoughtful and subtle - it is so helpful to try and minimize cultural connotations and not fall into the good/evil dichotomy. Kingsmill's labels really help in that regard.
I think what you are looking for to describe the awe-inspired fear of the numinous is the first and ultimate fear: the unknown.
Treachery could instead be trickery because it still makes sense of going behind their back and stuff but also isnt attached to evil
Story, archtype, domain, aspect. I love it. Fantastic video.
It's funny, in reflection about my pantheon I recognise that the deities my players gravitated towards were the ones with more tangible and impactful stories. I hadn't quite worked out why they went towards the Gods they did, but it makes sense now.
Great video, topic and explanations.
About the Numinous; You spend a lot of time describing the thing and very little time motivating the relevance of the idea. I'd love examples of how you apply this concept, because that particular thing is what you'd love to capture, when you have a player who decides to delve into mythology and god-lore.
The Cleric is driven by this awe, so is the madman. What's your experience with creating, implementing and successfully conveying the numinous?
That Hack though? Really solid stuff. Took me a couple of minutes to get the hang of "harbour", but it got there, and I'm applying these to the wounds that remain from the torn-out spreadsheet of deities in my home setting. Thank you!
Never thought I would ever hear the term "mysterium tremendum" in a D&D video. Dael, you are a magnificent nerd! Although, it only means the terrible aspect of the the holy. Its counterpart would be the "mysterium fascinosum".
Getting ready to start Odyssey of the Dragon Lords for my older kids. Love the way they have one clear major story.