Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar - Review / Retrospective
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- Опубликовано: 22 дек 2022
- A review of the first part of the second Ultima trilogy.
Where the journey of the Avatar truly begins, as a concept.
The opinions are from the perspective of someone who only recently played these games for the first time.
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Игры
The entire Ultima review series playlist: ruclips.net/p/PL6ySdS-taQCLCyXvRRoHCYgBDo2h8bUle
I'm enjoying your retrospective on the Ultima games. It really takes me down memory lane. I remember playing Ultimas and the Gold Box D&D games with my cousin and uncle back in the 80s on their Tandy 1000, with a beanbag ashtray on the desk, unfiltered Pall Mall smoke in the air, and orange carpet on the floor.
Thank you!
I hope to be able to continue the series soon. Next video script is about halfway done, but life has been unreasonably hectic, unfortunately.
OMG, similar experiences for me as a kid! My cousins had a Tandy, and we would play the classic Sierra games of the time on it; King's Quest I, II and then The Black Cauldron. I think we also played Curse of the Azure Bonds on it. Man those early games were brutal too. Very fun but you definitely got stuck from time to time.
@@kohl1999 Nice!
Ultima 4 more than any deserves a modern remake.
Be careful what you wish for. $100 says a resurrecting studio will shoehorn in their own stupid post-modern take on the Virtues. To start with, Lord British would be Lady British with some sort of idiot backstory about overthrowing 'the Patriarchy.'
@@dawnfire82 that wouldn't bother me at all if it's well written.
Why don't these videos have 100K hits? great work!
One reason probably is how IRL has kept me way too busy to have a consistent upload schedule. XD
Next one is coming though! When I get n vacation.
The 'walking around' music will NEVER get out of my head.
Thanks for taking me back to my childhood for a bit.
I think the Master System port is easily the best way to play this game. The simple tunes translated very well to the 3 channels of PSG square wave music and Sega redrew all the tiles to be a bit better and lose much of the black that makes the game very dark.
Keywords no longer have to be guessed as you have a menu to choose the default questions such as “job” or such and when a new dialogue option is unlocked by asking the right question, you can scroll down to select that question. I think the menus make the game alot more playable and you won’t miss any important clues. Then also you can select the number of spells you want to mix, up to 99, which saves a lot of time.
Also, projectiles can now be aimed at any angle, no longer needing to be straight or exactly 45 degree diagonals. Apart from that and some minor differences, like the inclusion of Nate the Snake (is this new), and changes to the appearance of certain tiles, its a direct port.
Then you have the NES version which redesigns the game a bit, losing the status panel to the right and giving everyone giant heads and is much closer to a jrpg in appearance. You can control the hot air balloon without needing wind spells and there’s no food or spell and reagent mixing. But it’s otherwise intact I think.
My favourite aspect of this game is the writing. It’s quite witty and thoughtful at times. With monsters giving funny responses, if you can speak to them in the towns. But the standout feature is the complete freedom of every tile being interactive, giving you full control to murder an entire town or speak to inanimate objects (which sometimes reply). Although to kill a civilian will set you back a very long time in building up your virtues.
You can gain clues to how to build up the virtues by meditating 1, 2 and 3 cycles. You need to take a break between each meditation of maybe a few days, but each shrine has 3 clues. If you have the requisite virtue points, 3 cycles earns you the virtue and draws a part of the ankh symbol on the info panel. You can potentially lose up to three ankh points in one moment by not saying “bye” and just turning away from an npc (which is a simple button press on the SMS control pad). That happened to me once.
The most outstanding feature of the game is the almost complete none-linearity and truly open-world. You have eight runes, stones and mantras to discover and dungeons to defeat to use two stones at the lowest level, in the altar, once you’ve discovered the correct combinations.
Once you’re a full avatar, you can discover the mystic arms, which is in two places, for weapons and armour respectively.
But actually the standout feature of the game is how it makes _you_ the avatar. Not playing a fictional character, but actually you! This is enforced by the character profiling that is the moral questioning at the beginning with the fortune teller. Although I’ve noticed almost everyone end up as the bard for some reason unless you finesse your answers a bit. But then you start to realise that you really do have complete freedom in the tile based game world, but your actions have consequences, in that you might lose an eighth of your ankh/avatarhood in a virtue, ie. the objective of the game and have alot of grinding or donating to beggars and not killing spiders to do.
So unlike any other game, maybe ever, this game draws you in and makes it consequential and feel real, despite the simple graphics.
Which makes this game a contender for the greatest game ever made.
Agreed. The only two downsides I recall from the SMS version was the dialogue-bug that prevented you from learning the mantra "SUMM" for the Shrine of Honor - and then the fact that you were not allowed to save your game at all during the super-hard descent into the final dungeon called The Great Stygian Abyss". I once had to restart a 12-hour session, because a snake randomly appeared in a battle against some Reapers and Balrog demons. The tiny creature accidentally died in 'friendly fire', and since snakes aren't evil, I lost a part of my ankh symbol...
So glad I played the SMS version of this as my first Ultima game. I doubt it would have had the same impact as a series on me if I'd played any other version of it, or any of the rest of the series (although VI and VII were good too).
@@sambojinbojin-sam6550 yeah. The _sms_ version is one of the greatest ever. Not the computer versions. No music. Mostly black. Shortcut keys to do anything. No thanks.
The only thing that drives me crazy about this game is the amount of combats. It becomes absurd after a certain point, and worse once you add more characters, increasing the amount of enemies per encounter for each character added. They got the encounter rate perfectly in Ultima V and VI. In IV, the game sort of encourages you through this to complete as much of the game as possible before getting any other characters. If there was a hack to cut down encounters, it would be a perfect game for me.
Yeah if U4 had U5's combat system, it'd be the ultimate
Hello from northeast Ohio, USA. I played Ultima: QOTA on Nintendo many times, and it has always been one of my favorite games. Thanks for doign this video.
I played it on an Apple 2e clone.
Absolutely great analysis and review!
Playing through ultima is playing through the history of the development of western Rpgs, each new game introducing new features and themes that although we take for granted today we're groundbreaking at the time.
QOTA is one such a game that truly deserves a remake so that new players can be sucked into this amazing journey of enlightenment. Although, at least for me, the game is still perfectly playable I understand that the graphics and mechanics can be off-putting for people that would ultimately love the game.
Alas Ultima is stuck in EA limbo.
Thank you! And I completely agree.
When I first played through these a few years back, I felt exactly that. Playing through the history of computer RPGs, seeing the influence this series had. That's also what birthed the idea of starting to eventually make these videos, even if it took a while before I got to it.
Another reason why I wanted to start this project is in your second paragraph. While I personally don't mind playing through these games at all, and I really enjoy them, I do understand that for a lot of people the age of the games is probably too much. I don't blame them, at all, but knowing that is a factor I still want more people to know about these games and their influence, and this is one thing I thought I could do to not only add my voice to the discussion, but to perhaps make even more people aware of how important Ultima is.
@@finntrovert Well said.
@Finntrovert the Master System port is much more accessible - perhaps recommend that or even the simpler nes port.
For those wishing to experience the game there is xu4, a remake of the game available for free.
darn. I remeber but very little of the game itself, only I spent countless hours questing. Next to Elite this is likely the game I have enjoyed the most during my upbringing. Thanks for excellent rundown, Yeah, whatabout itm more games that inspires people to go within rather than ai
I played this game as a kid (on NES) and I love it so much. I never beat it, I kept using the skull and couldn't really every become an avatar. I have beat it a few times since, and this video makes me think that I need to do it once more.
Was free on GOG at one time.
@@tarheel7406it still is.
I've only played one game series with this talk process (the much later and excellent Exile trilogy). It makes you feel much more connected to the setting and your own character typing out prompts to the conversation.
What an excellent summary of what is to me the greatest CRPG of all time, and possibly never to be beaten. I kept expecting omissions to crop up that I could gleefully pounce on in the comments, but you got EVERYTHING! About the only thing not covered was messing with the game by inserting the wrong discs during swaps and getting the unlimited treasure chests and glitched battles to tweak certain aspects of virtue. Fantastic job, I take my hat off to you and hope that more and more viewers find this video and perhaps fall in love with one of the true foundations of the computer role playing game genre.
Thank you!
And I do appreciate pouncing on omissions as well! After all, those are a way for me to learn more as well, since I only got into this series rather recently comparatively, and never got to play them around release.
@@finntrovert Hehe, my pleasure! If you are getting heavily into retro CRPGs I can also wholeheartedly recommend Alternate Reality, The City but most especially The Dungeon. They began life on the Atari 8-bit line and these are probably the best versions to play, though I am partial to the C64 version of The Dungeon. It has a fascinating history as well, hugely ambitious beyond the technology of the time it was to be 7 interconnected 'scenarios' making a complete world and game, but only the first 2 were ever created. The transfer to The Dungeon was 1 way only, but you may as well just start with The Dungeon as it was the one with a complete storyline. The City was more of just a stats building and mapping game with hints of what the future could hold. You couldn't actually join the guilds or visit exotic locations like the whorehouse, gym, arena, palace (the last 2 being future scenarios) etc. Enjoy!
@@exidy-yt This is why I enjoy this creative journey so much.
This channel, and Twitch have been great excuses to catch up on interesting stuff I missed back in the day.
Ultima, for example, I only really saw in magazines, but finally was able to play a few years back.
To top it all off, I learn about more and more things I may enjoy!
@@finntrovert That is one of the coolest aspects of the Internet for certain. As so many of us old CRPGers grew up in an era of only magazines and at most primitive BBSes there wasn't near the amount of information sharing that is possible today, and everyone's different experiences and discoveries can now be shared and passed on. I can't even list the amount of things like whole music genres I'd never heard about that I've discovered through the net. I am glad to share and hope you will enjoy some of what I used to, as you already have by discovering the Ultima series! If you want me to detail a few other classic 8-bit CRPGs let me know, but with AR City/Dungeon and Questron/Legacy of the Ancients you will be busy for a GOOD while!
@@exidy-yt- I haven’t thought about Alternate Reality for YEARS. Definitely played The City (on 8-bit Atari) but I don’t think I got very far in the dungeon. Spectacular and, as you said, very ambitious games.
Also, I have to agree about Quest of the Avatar - probably the best video game of my life. It really was an -intelligent- game and I can’t think of another game like it
I have searched so long for a high quality Ultima series review, one without Spoony’s screeching. Thank you these are exactly what I was looking for.
Thank you for watching!
I know people keep talking up all the ways this morality system works, but at the end of the day, it IS just a numbers game based off your actions. It is a complex numbers game, but nothing 'changes' about the story, it's just about balancing the actions to get all the 'stats' of the virtues up high enough to finally be able to finish the game.
That said, it's still a system you don't see much, then or now. Some of that is because it CAN be really grindy, but some of it is just that a lot of devs either want to put you on rails they control completely, or go the opposite direction and want you to be able to 'play your way' so they leave you keeping all the options open.
Of course, that doesn't take away from this being a landmark in game design, as the things it does well, it does REALLY well, and you can see the beginnings of systems like the morality scales in other games, even some stuff with DnD, which was growing more and more popular at the time this was made.
A great review, and I like that you went into detail on the dungeon diving, as that was something I haven't seen covered elsewhere. Very good stuff.
Thank you!
And indeed, in practice the entire Virtue system is pretty simplistic, and just based on binary decisions and simple counters.
But as you said, it's also a landmark in how it paved the way for systems that are actually more complex and meaningful.
With Ultima IV the system's brilliance isn't as much in the actual system, but how the lore and the game can make you FEEL it's much more complex than it is in reality, making the player question their choices since the details of the system are never actually explained in the game or the manual.
It's fascinating to me.
@@finntrovert I certainly know how that can go. Plenty of games with stories that are 'simplistic' sing to me about what they don't say outright, instead being more about the world and the lore behind them creating a place I want to adventure in, though rarely live in...so few fantasy worlds have plumbing.
Anyway, you are doing well, even if I'm watching these slowly, I am watching each one in turn. As I said prior, I've not played any of these to the finish, so it's neat to see a perspective like yours, where it agrees with others, and where it differs.
Like a few here, I played this game via it's NES counterpart. It was honestly the very first RPG I ever got immersed into, and it really expanded my young mind.~
One day I do want to see how the NES version is different.
Thanks for these videos. Bring back memories.
Thank you for watching them!
The game series is amazing, even to someone like me who only truly played them for the first time a few years ago. In a way, I'm jealous of people who got to experience these when they were new, even if I can still imagine the wonder of them in context of the era.
@@finntrovert Let me tell you, the first time I saw the Ultima III starting screen and heard the amazing Ken Arnold 'wander' theme after only reading about it for a year or more in gaming magazines.....I can only equate it to my first orgasm. The sensations to my ears and the visuals of the characters animating after only seeing still shots in magazines were pure dopamine bliss to my 13 year old self. I immediately fired up Super Kwik Copy and made my own copy of the double sided disk barely remembering to thank the guy who let me copy it (I think I exchanged a copy of Bruce Lee for it) and took it home and then proceeded to skip school until the blessed weekend came. Even though Ultima IV is by far the better game, you can never forget your first love. Be it in your first girlfriend, or your first really absorbing game, You will NEVER forget it. That's Ultima III for me.
Great review! I remember playing this game as a kid on our family Apple IIc when this first came out! I found a glitch where you could put the dungeon disk into the drive while you were exploring the overworld. As the floppy disk was accessed to load in the overworld, it would begin to glitch out and load random chests and other objects would load in. Sometimes you could use that to load up on treasure that wouldn't normally be there.
Thanks!
That's really cool, and I love hearing about people's experiences with the games in the context of the time and on original hardware.
It's insane how influential this was for Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode. Never played an Ultima game, but I can see tons of parallels in the gameplay.
Never played Dwarf Fortress, but now I kind of want to.
Good ol Dupre. I remember the guys thought you had to be a sheperd until someone figured out where katrina was. Omigosh the 80s are gone
By far my favorite Ultima game followed by Ultima 5 and 7.
10:37 - I'm sure Fessor will appreciate this reference. ;-)
This game is the reason I bought a C64c, after having had the Atari 800xl for several years (still my sentimental favorite). Ultima IV for the Atari didn’t have the music. After the freaking great music from Ultima III, the loss of music in IV was so disappointing. Still, I was obsessed with this game and finished it on my 800xl, then played thru again later on my C64c where I could revel in its great SID soundtrack. Phenomenal game, and still my favorite RPG experience from the 80s, for sure.
Ultima 5 then only had music if you had a C128
@@brianperkins6121 yes, I was so disappointed again! Still loved it tho :)
Kudos for the animation for the virtues. Nicely done.
Thank you!
The virtues mapped 17:58
very nice rundown
Thank you!
I hope to be able to keep it up with upcoming videos as well.
Thanks for the awesome video!
Thank YOU for supporting this crazy endeavor!
This is the game that kept me nights when I was 12 years old. I would say this is still by far an adventure.
amazing game
This game is the bane of D&D players and opportunists, because you can't master the virtues by not acting like a virtues person! So many RPGs even today ignore stealing and other crimes, dishonorable acts and depravity of the player character.
Some games like The Division tell you you are the good guy and then you go and kill looters and scavangers, WHILE LOOTING AND SCAVANGING!
Thou hast lost an eighth!
7:35 What's a paladin?
A poorly phrased question intended to act as an introduction to new players?
hehehe@@finntrovert
Tremmor!
pmsl brilliant
Wait did you say something about how I was assigned a class. What if I identify as a different class?
Lolwut?
Uhh, good for you then, I guess!
Ah yes the goodies you dont get with your unlicensed copy
did Ultima IV hit its popularity when it released in '85? I'm curious cuz the better looking ultima IV, but far from best looking version, I knew and was introduced to in the early 90's was the 1987 DOS release, that everyone i knew and met played and only knew as their form of Ultima IV. I grew up in northeast US and not much Amiga owners around. It wasn't until the late 90s that i realized the version i only knew and played did not exist until 2 years after the original release of Ultima IV
It's a great question; I will give you my personal experience. I was in grade school when these CRPGs were hitting the market. We had a few Apple IIe computers in our school's library, and you could go in and use them over lunch. I remember there was constantly kids playing classic games of the time; Ghost Busters, Wizardry, Ultima and The Bard's tale were all really, really popular. I would say it depended where you lived, but absolutely people were going to software stores of the time (Egghead Software, etc) and buying these games on release. For the early to mid 80's, I just remember Apple II being the main platform these were released on, with C64 usually getting a port as well.
I will also add, I was sooo jealous of my friend who had an Apple IIGS, because the Bard's Tale port of that game was just amazing looking.
Then ultima V is a reaction to the woke moral panic.
Ffinntrovert I made a videO clipping your stream LP of Ultima IV. I choose your vid as much for your illustration of the game and your channel as much as for Rich Garriot's game itself. Anyway, the link is ruclips.net/video/TjmNrt4vmd8/видео.html and I think the theme and your illustration of the game goes well with the rest of my channel and videos in playlist. If you'd rather not have it on just copyright strike it and I'll take it down (sorry I keep comments off because of the Shadowlord minions, I do my best. Also minions is a bad word in English, but is is very apt here). I clipped the ending 10 mins of your LP and added written commentary. Thank you, don't change for anyone unless they put a gun to good folks' heads (and they are and have been, but that's another story) AVATAR!
I don't mind! Actually it is quite flattering you did this, so I have no intention of striking it or asking removal or anything. :P