I Was Wrong About the Bose 301 IV
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- Опубликовано: 27 янв 2019
- I was wrong about the Bose 301 IV in my last review called "The Secret Behind Bose Sound Revealed!" • The Secret Behind Bose...
I made the mistake of using them with toe-in like you would with normal speakers and measuring them head on instead of from an angle to get more of the sound from the front tweeter.
Also, as a follow up on Blind A/B Speaker Test #004
that was the same as Blind A/B Speaker Test #003 (Bose vs. SVS) except in the #004 version, the Bose was turned up +3dB over the SVS. I also removed the source file so that you couldn't use the source as a reference. I did this to prove a point which was that a louder speaker will typically score better than one of equal volume and the importance of having the source file to compare a speaker's accuracy.
28% of the people picked Bose (Blue) on Test #004 compared to only 8% on Test #003.
Blind A/B Speaker Test #003: • Blind A/B Speaker Test...
Blind A/B Speaker Test #004: • Blind A/B Speaker Test...
I also made sure to update my ranking on the Speaker Leaderboard.
🔈 Speaker Leaderboard Rankings: bit.ly/SpeakerLeaderboard
▶ Bose 301 IV on Amazon: amzn.to/3k3JLlV
▶ SVS Prime Bookshelf from SVS: bit.ly/SVS-Prime-Bookshelf
▶ SVS Prime Bookshelf on Amazon: bit.ly/SVSPrimeBookshelf
▶ Blind A/B Test (comments are funny): • Blind A/B Speaker Test...
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Music:
The Sound Demo Tracks are here:
• Sound Demo Music
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▶ Bose 301 IV on Amazon: amzn.to/3k3JLlV
▶ SVS Prime Bookshelf from SVS: bit.ly/SVS-Prime-Bookshelf
▶ SVS Prime Bookshelf on Amazon: bit.ly/SVSPrimeBookshelf
My Speaker Leaderboard: bit.ly/SpeakerLeaderboard
My Subwoofer Leaderboard: bit.ly/subwooferleaderboard
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Takes a real man to admit his mistakes. Go Joe!
Yeah, why not! At least be honest right? If you're not making mistakes, you aren't trying. 😊 Earning trust is a top priority for me and this channel
I don't like channels that pretend to know all the answers, I like channels that take you along on their journey to discover them. Subscribed.
I appreciate that. It is a journey! You helped clarify the importance to make sure to engage you all...the audience.
I think the easiest way to put this into context is that Bose has chosen to design their speakers in a totally different concept vs other mainstream audiophile speakers. I was an anti-Bose audiophile but after watching your correction video, it brought back my very first experience with a Bose Acoustimass system in a music CD shop. I remember being very impressed with the sound. But negative reviews over the years turned me against Bose and I concluded then that it was an overpriced box of wood. Until your correction video.
The key difference between Bose and other speakers is that most other makers design their speakers to create a very specific, narrow sweet spot whereas Bose decided they would design their speakers to create a much larger sweet spot that sometimes covers the whole room. So wherever you are in that room, the audio sounds the same and you get the best of the speakers. Whereas with typical audiophile speakers, if you're outside the sweet spot, you just get average sound.
So if you've got a dedicated sound room with good acoustics for audio, you probably wanna go with good audiophile speakers. But if your room is "noisy" and "messy" or you tend to move around when listening to your music and want the sound to be good wherever you are in the room, then you might want to get a Bose system. It's not about purists vs non-purists. It's just a different design concept meant to cater to a different listening environment.
@@joentell
Thank you.
You are 100% correct.
Bose does indeed make some really good products. The trolls who bash bose all the time, have some serious psychiatric problems for sure.
I think you have discover a new platform for audiophile community. This is much fun. To be able to learn and discuss. I have learned so much from this channel. Really this is a new platform that I really enjoy. Keep up the good work.
I hope so. This is a fun hobby.
I’ve had my pair of Bose 301 IVs since the late 90s. Ive used them as stereo listening in my bedroom, beaten the hell out of them at house parties with DJ setups, and now currently they’re my DJ monitors for my bedroom setup. Still sound great after all these years.
I'm in the same boat, I bought my 301 series 3 in 93 I still have them and love them!! I could easily upgrade but I dont see a reason to!!!
Bro I’m am subscribed as of today ! A real man knows how make things right and be open, plus your topics are right up my category !
This channel is becoming my go to for learning about audio basics. I really like how this material gets presented without any of that "i'm the big expert" attitude.
Thanks for that! I appreciate you saying that.
Great video. I love it when someone is a straight shooter - Joe, you're more interested in presenting correct info than you are looking good or being right. Major props.
Just discovered your channel. Glad I did. Great stuff and everything well explained! Looking forward to more reviews.
Thank you!!! 🙏
Wow, huge difference from the clips in your "Secret" vid (nice analysis btw). I was stunned to hear how weak the 301s sounded in that first run through. My impression totally flipped around hearing this side by side with the adjustment to the speaker placement and mic direction, thanks for this
This makes so much more sense. I have a set of 301's in my home gym and they don't sound muddy at all.
Hey Joe: again great video. My anecdote is that in the early 80's the Bose 301 were the go to speakers of the young aspiring audiophiles. At that time, the 901's were about the ultimate speakers. Other brands in the entry level market were Advent, Sony, Realistic (Radio Shack), klipsh and Technics. Dome tweeters were not as common as they are now until the late 80's with Polk Audio SDA's and RTA's (at least in our market). But none of us would has entered the audio enthusiasts if it weren't for the 301's and 201's. I even had 2 subs made to place underneath using a passive Cerwin Vega cross over. Increased power handling and much more base.
I appreciate that insight Ismael!
Wow quite the difference compared to your other video! I still perfer the SVS in this comparision but IMO it is much closer between the two in this test. Good work, best channel IMO for these comparo's!! :)
I have to say that the 301s surprised me quite a lot
Also in this video I like their big sound stage and the bass of them
Of course they are nowhere near a real hifi speaker and I’d still probably choose the SVS over them if I could only pick one but they are very good for modern music and just the average speaker buyer
I own a pair of 301 II myself and I always take them out for parties as they seem to survive everything and get very very loud with good kick bass performance
Nice video as well, it’s no problem to make mistakes if you correct yourself with a video like this
I just noticed you're Speaker Toni. You have a channel too! What's up!!!
Yess:)
I just started watching your channel and I really like the videos here! I want to move into the hifi speaker world a bit more as well. At least if I manage to upload a bit more than just 1 vid per month haha.
Its not easy to find good stuff tho, the really hyped KEF Lsx which I just got rather disappointed me so far. @@joentell
Oh really! I can't say I'm too surprised about the LSX, but they're a 4" driver! What about them don't you like?
Joe N Tell the 4” driver definitely is an advantage as it lets the speaker play pretty loud but they still sound kinda lifeless to me.
I tried nearly all setting combinations in their app and it doesn’t get much better than now.
They have a big upper bass boost which makes them a bit boxy sounding and treble rolls of at around 12-14khz already which is quite disappointing for a 19mm tweeter.
The imaging was nice tho and the overall presentation of the product is great.
I did a blind comparison with the KEF and a self made 2 way speaker with just a 3” driver:
ruclips.net/video/qkE9bTIWHUk/видео.html
You can have a quick listen with headphones and tell me which one you prefer.
I added it to my watch later playlist.
Nice review- you've got a winning combo of enthusiasm for audio and tech without the douchbaggery that can come with it. I definitely feel the new generation of "audiophile" will be more spec oriented and in the hobby of value shopping (just performance per dollar in general, as opposed to brand awareness). Which is way more fun, because you can be blown away by $60 earbuds and $5,000 speaker sets because there is a market for all of this now.
You also do better comparisons than the big youtubers, by simply including valuable info people want to make their judgement calls. I think I subbed when you had around 1K, I forget what you were up to, something before you compared the home pod. Anyway keep it up please, quality is top notch and the content is accessible for people who are curious enough to impact the market or the niche one day.
Now those 301s... I know a couple people with pairs. My buddy loves his old pair. It''s a good party speaker. I can see why the "wide" sound with a V shape can be pleasant as a plug and play solution. I'm just listening thru some old passive mod M-audio av40's and you can tell the SVS is much more focused and is definitely shooting more info at the mic. Really, it sounds like shit in ways to me no one would ever care to think about except someone who listens to speaker review A/B testing (me). Meaning it sounds good in ways I do not think sound good (commercial).
edit: on my elacs and pinnacles- the midrange cut out becomes a very obvious compressed sound.
But you have to remember even if you can hear the difference between these things, you're still gonna have some weird bias because it's coming out of your set, even if it can capture most of the sound. If that makes sense. In the room it was probably pretty easy to turn up loudly, the harshness from the tweeters were probably toned down and you lose sense of the lack of detail after a few minutes, until you look for it again. and it is there.
Great man, loved your inputs!!
As an apparent 'non-audiophile', I have enjoyed my 301s (Gen.?) since 2001.
Believe me, I hold the term "audiophile" in high regard. Lots of negative connotations. I consider my self an audio enthusiast, not an audiophile. I appreciate all things audio, even if it isn't my personal preference. I can see what they were going for and I respect it.
The thing you're giving up is imaging. Producers/engineers try to place different instruments in different places within the soundstage. With a good pair of speakers, you get to to hear all the instruments/performers coming from different locations. When you have speakers specifically designed to bounce sound around the room, you lose this effect.
Joe N Tell I have watched recently all the videos you done about Bose. The one where you explain the Bose secret and the both testing the 301
Good job! and thank you a lot about the clarification.
Only that I really would be appreciated that you just test the Acoustimass... that are in fact the most famous system.
I have one AM5 series 3, I am using it because of the AM module due my AV receiver has damaged the subwofer output.
After using the AM5 series 3 in that gear, I was happy with it, I bought a pair of Kef C55 and they are enough for this gear.
And I am using now the AM in my desk, as a 2.1 system and for this purpose it’s very good.
But I tested to change the AM satellites with a Vieta Neo 10 I have... and...it’s awasome. It’s crealy better becasue these Vieta Satellites has a double 3,5" woofer and a 10 mm tweeter and a frequency response 75 Hz - 20 kHz
That means yu can use different speakers together with the AM module, but I am also using the AM satellites substituying the ones in a small 2.1 computer speakers and they are also working great.
Thank you for your videos
bose is always bad...doesnt matter what youre editing. never seen a hifi professionell that says bose is good. never
I am a musician (pianist) since I was 7 years old. So, I am so happy I didn’t become audiophile, but yes I am musicphilie and harmonyphilie.
Hello! Have you reviewed any studio monitors for in home use? I have been doing this for years and I find studio monitors are an affordable way to have good sound quality instead of hi fi speakers.
Not really studio monitors. Sometimes they aren't optimized for anything beyond nearfield listening.
@@joentell my room is small so it works out for me
Out of these two I‘d chose the Bose any day for the wider sound stage alone. I hate being forced into a narrow sweet spot - that‘s one of the biggest strengths of my HomePod IMO - it has great sound from any angle! I think it‘s right for Bose to focus on more mainstream needs. And it‘s also great that there are ”audiophile“ companies that make speakers for classic audiophiles who prefer to sit in a sweet spot to get the most neutral sound. Buy whatever fits your needs.
Way to come back and make the corrections. I like that table top arcade, I’m looking to get one myself.
Do it!!!! It's fun to build.
I can hear comb filtering from the bose on hi mids, that's normal since they project on walls. So what's cool with them is, by moving them closer or further from the wall, you can naturally Eq your sound too and you place them where you find it sounds the best. :)
I like your style of reviewing, measurement data and actual listening data, most channels just talk and show nothing
YOU DO A FANTASTIC JOB. KEEP UP THE QUALITY. What Would recommend as a cross between both of them?🤔Bose V?
Thank you so much!
I friend of mine just gave me a set of Bose 301 MK4 to try out. I had MK1 way back when..Im 65 as of this past Saturday..Glad I found your channel..Im looking for to the new generation MK4 lol
Great job, I bought my 301 series 3 brand new about 30 years ago and still love them!!
Nice to see the positive on Bose. What is not really addressed is a real home environment: different floors, walls, ceilings, rugs, furniture, etc, and where the listener is placed. The music is a big player, too. Some sounds better on one speaker system, others, not so much. Comparing different music in home environment, with different listening spots, all affects the quality of the sound. So, of course, many different opinions. Thanks.
That's awesome, Joe. Later the day of the other video, I was thinking "hey, the tweeters on those Bose weren't really measured properly." I thought that, if you put the mic in front of the speakers, the mics would miss a lot of the tweets. Anyway, I know how they sound, I've owned...well I own them now. lol I still prefer even the little Pioneers to these, and please, you owe it to yourself to try the Series V Bose 201....I have not yet heard a better sounding Bose speaker! :D Good Video Joe!!!
The reason I wasn't immediately tipped off after recording the sound demo, is that it can sound like the first recording if you are not between the two speakers. Like if you are seated directly in front of them or to the outside of them.
I remember running Audyssey EQ on my AVR and it changed the sound significantly for the better.
You are a stand up guy thanks for your honesty and your review..
I’m impressed with your honesty! For that I’ll follow you! I’m still looking for the best room speakers to listen to my music, not my tv! Any thoughts? Oh, I miss my old time speakers from the 80’s! 😢
Oh thank you for that! 🙏 Have you seen my speaker leaderboard?
I had a pair of the Prime bookshelves and I always felt they were thin, and quite frankly harsh. I would fatigue pretty quickly on normal volume levels and would actually wince with loud levels. I'm glad I sold them.
Yes my friend ! Bose are designes to be mounted on especific angles, when i bought my 301 v . I red the directions and Bose recomends to Locate the speakers in certain angle so you can really apréciate the sorround effect. So happy with them and sound really nice
This makes a big differences especially those speakers against the wall and within a good of the corner. The sound and bass really comes through.
They are really very different speakers. The SVS is oriented towards being a monitor with an analytical presentation, whereas the Bose has a more warm, exciting sound and is meant to fill a room with music.
I use Bose 301's for music and home theater (I just use a 2.1 setup with a Yamaha receiver) and I like the fiber cone woofer and twiddler design (instead of a conventional tweeter). I don't even really need a subwoofer with them as they provide plenty of bass when placed near a wall.
I have a pair of the bose 301 in my garage, would you recommend them alone for just watching movies or should I get a sub to go along with it?
First of all, Joe, thanks for this piece. You have a new follower. Secondly, i'd like to put in my two cents about the 301. I was in the service, in Germany, 1978, when I caught the audio bug. I spent a lot of money, and my main speakers were JBL L40s. I wanted a good second pair of speakers, and I listened to a whole roomful of two-way bookshelves at budget price. The best speakers in the room were the Bose 301. This was first generation with one tweeter. It was, i think, a three inch tweeter. The woofer was a high quality eight inch. These speakers did not image, and I love imaging. The point was that the sound was so damn rich, and it was clear anywhere in the room. I bought a pair. I had 'em for years. The classic line of Bose speakers is a good line. They just have their own approach to acoustics.
Agree
@Joe n Tell, I'm still searching for Bose model # from the early 1990's. 2 way ported 8in Speaker. I had a pair from new and thought they got the job done well.
They were standard non reflecting. Any knowledge? Thanks.
Bose did make some good sounding speakers back in the day although I would have to go with svs I see what bose was trying to do by making the 301 more bass heavy to eliminate the need for more speakers or even a subwoofer. But when it comes down to it all speakers have there limits on what they can do no matter if u have floor speakers or bookshelf to get the deep down bass u will want to use a subwoofer just my opinion great video
My friend have bose accoustimas and onkyo reciever the sounds is pretty good!
Hey Joe, was wondering if you could let us know (or do a video) on:
1. What microphone you are using to record/measure the frequency response of the speakers.
2. What software you use in combination with the microphone to record the frequency response.
3. Can you use an equalizer and/or external DSP to make colored speakers flatter, eg. make the Bose 301s flat?
Another example would be, in my KIA Sportage I am using the stock speakers, head unit etc. It has the following controls: High: -10 to +10, Mid: -10 to +10 and Low: -10 to +10 . With the Mic and software you use, could I tune the head unit to produce a flatter response?
I understand some people say, just tune it how you like it, however often the music I listen to affects how I like the speakers to sound, eg. Hip Hop is usually bass heavy and when I tune the system to Rock / Metal, the rock music sounds great, but the Hip Hop sounds too bassy.
With my Home Theatre, using Micca mb42xs and an Elac sub, I feel like it doesn't matter what type of music I am listening to, I feel like the sound is always great. I am guessing that is because of the flatter frequency response of those speakers.
It is too hard to tune speakers by ear, so I was wondering if you could help a brother out and recommend the best way to "calibrate" an audio system to be as flat as possible.
Apologies if this has been covered before.
Love your videos, keep up the great work!
I recently got a pair of Mordaunt Short m10's and they're very "directional" like this. They sound better than my Kef Coda 7's, but only when they're pointed directly at you. Any movement out of the "line of sight" and they sound worse. It's a bit distracting if the sound changes when you tilt your head to the left!
I've only recently started getting into audio so I don't know if this is a common thing or not, but I think I prefer the "fuller" sound from the Kefs..
I’m personally a fan of the wide soundstage of the Bose, I couldn’t call the sound worse or better, it just sounds different a little more bass bit that’s very typical of Bose, but I honestly can’t name which I like more I’d listen to both. Whatever sounds good to you that’s what works for you go with that! Great video!
8:09 versus 8:17 which feels better for you when listening at the synthesizer?
My 301's have lasted for years because they're just so good at being all-around workers shoved into lousy rooms, in lousy places, and used for music-video-gaming. Lately I've been using early 90's tower speakers to get that authentic 80's/90's sound. I'm a believer in matching music to the speakers of their era.
Interesting thought about matching speakers to their era.
You're an idiot. The sound that amplifiers have changed is far. far, far less in the last 10/20/30 40 years than what speakers have. Holding on to vintage speakers is akin to not giving up on your old crack pipe just for nostalgia.
@@Roof_Pizza Those speakers are what the engineers mixed to. They are as much part of the sound as the instruments used. Nobody in pop/rock mixed to audiophile equipment. If I am an idiot, I'm a happy idiot, for now, until I get bored and change speakers again. I'm in this for my fun, not yours.
@Andreas Breslawski Yes, pretty much that. I'm not about accuracy, so beyond a point, all this modern awesomeness is wasted on me. It's your money. Make yourself happy. Everybody wins.
@@FrankiesMarket Great question. Like today's mixers, yesterday's engineers mixed on reference speakers then tested on consumer speakers. Did their mix sound on on AM? FM? Cars? Headphones? Towers? Bookshelves? Like engineering, mixing is the art of compromise. Then they tweaked and mixed again. I also figure that the speaker manufacturers made speakers that sounded good to the top selling music of the day. I figure that a pair of speakers is appropriate to +/- 10 years. For example, for a pair of early 80's speakers, you can bet that Fleetwood Mac and Pink Floyd would have been used as reference recordings. One of the reasons for remixing rereleases (among a large pile of reasons) is that listening technology has changed and the releases no longer sound as intended.
I thank you for your honest re-assessment. I've heard the 301's but never owned them. I think Bose has been faithful to their target audience and created products, speakers, headphones, and entertainment consoles that give enjoyment and can be used in an everyday setting.
Audiophiles tend to want to squeeze the last nuance from a recording and often sit in the "sweet spot" focused on the music sometimes in a clinical way.
Bose on the other hand is an invite your friends over or do something around the room because there isn't a single sweet spot. It could be argued the 901's were the party speaker. They could take huge amounts of power and the sound was everywhere. Audiophiles or sound purists would almost by reflex take issue with that statement.
Thanks again for your time in reviewing these speakers.
I made that mistake with the gemstone speakers for my 321 system. I tilted them in and it just didnt sound right. So after some research I found out also that you dont do that. Point them straight because the 2 speakers in each one are already on an angle in a V shape. Made a noticeable difference. Sounds pretty good without spending tons of cash.
Curious. Would these make for a good front high set up. For an Armos experience?
Hi, nice video ! One thing : when you buy Bose speakers, it comes with a detailed plan on how to place your speakers, there are minimum distances between the speaker and the walls, the speaker with the other, etc... Place them wrongly, you will obtain an awful sound, for sure ! Place them well, and you will enjoy a nice sound, and please, use the bass/treble settings on you amplifier : less bass, more treble, sounds great ! An happy owner of a 205 model for rock, funk and electronic music (but happier on classical with Cabasse "Aviso" speakers !).
Good vid man. I had a feeling that those Bose didn't roll off the high end that much.
Thanks for this very interesting video. I love the comparison. Now I have decided to go for the Bose. The highs in the SVS are overshadowed by the mids. While the Bose has a balanced highs-mids. The bass of both have no noticeable difference. Again thank you and keep posting.
When it came to vocals the SVS won hands down. The female vocals on the Bose sounded grainy. The jazz piano I really couldn't hear a difference, same with the Guitar. Where I heard the largest difference was the first sample, the midrange seemed to pop out and smack me in the face with the SVS. The Bose seemed more mellow, but overall, the SVS won out in 3/4 of the samples.
Very true, but if you don't want to sit directly in front of your perfectly angled speakers while listening to music, the Bose would win hands down. That's the entire point of their technology.
Love your channel
Not sure if you ever reviewed these
Bose F1 Model 812 Flexible Array Loudspeaker and Sub woofer .
In many comments throughout RUclips I see these kinda reviewed
Many people ask if they would be a good choice for use as a home system.
I think you would get many views on a video reviewing these.
Not a Bose fan but I did hear these at a wedding and was surprised.
I make all my own speakers and even wrote my own speaker building program you would
love.
I owned a pair of 302 series 2 speakers about ten years ago.
They are Very Good. I paid about $150.00usd.
The range is acceptable at 39hz-20khz and were powered by a Panasonic SA5800 with a Pioneer SG-9 12 band equilizer.
Probably one of the best little setups I have ever put together.
I’ve had my bose Cinamate since 2012 and coming as a studio musician I’ve learned that for my Bose setup it’s all about where the speakers sit. Currently my base module is horizontal towards the back of the living room because that is where I have found the Bose system is most leveled in my room. The same way you would set up a microphone to record to get the sound you are looking for.
Hi! I’m new to the channel and I just came from the last video and I found a few things interesting from my experience compared to your observations, and they made a lot of sense to me.
I wouldn’t classify myself as an audiophile, but definitely someone familiar with music and I feel I have an idea for “good sound.” I kinda fall into the category of looking for “bang for the buck” as I can’t just throw endless amounts of money at speakers in my current situation.
I ended up getting a pair of Bose 401 out of a local deal, I traded a tablet that I didn’t really use anymore for them which worked out great for me and this deal spearheaded my drive for a better home audio solution. I always felt they carried the mids and lows and fell short on the highs (this was about 2 years ago, I obviously hadn’t seen your video at this point nor knew the response profile). About a year ago, I became a bit enamored with Martin Logan, and brought home a set of their Motion 4i’s.
Nothing other than luck brought these speakers together, but honestly the Motion 4i with their electrostatic tweeter fills the highs in a way that compliments that Bose sound REALLY well. I have them sitting on top of the Bose and slightly rotated toward the listener. I’ll back up the observation that they do sound better when sitting correctly from them, but they also just fill the room if I want music playing but Im up and about.
I’m currently planning a home theater/music setup with these, a pair of Bose 201 v3, and a Motion 8 for the center channel. As a small side note, I do have a powered sub for the setup, but some times I turn it off to not disturb the household, and the Bose still deliver an acceptable coverage of the low end. This versatility is very valuable for my current situation. Great videos by the way. Cheers!
(Final side note, lol. I also refinished my Bose speakers since I got them for little to no investment in a piano white and it goes a long way to modernize that wood grain. I understand some would find this sacrilegious lol)
I would be interested in seeing how the speakers look in that piano white finish.
Joe N Tell sure thing! What’s the best way to send you the files?
If you have an imgur sure account, that's how a lot of people do it if you don't mind others seeing. Otherwise, just email me at joe@joentell.com
i have denon pma 720 ae amp and bose 301V speaker. but I'm not satisfied with the sound. the amp doesn’t support graphic equalizer. what should i do?
So I listened to the original video on my home theatre setup. This time I listened to it off my iPad. What I noticed is damn hard to make a decent decision using iPad and Bose QC15 after I listened on a home system. Home system is a Sony STRDA5400ES BI Amp with Energy RC-70. I really enjoy this set up.
iPad/Bose set up makes the reference track sound bad whereas my home system the reference track was always the better followed by SVS. I really enjoyed this video and the original you did. I can say I am very disappointed with the Bose. Thank you
I'm not a Bose fan boy, but they are not as bad as people think. Honestly, if they improve the quality of the speaker material, it may help the sound. The tweeters look like older paper cones and the woofer not much better.
Paul Tomaszewski Bose usually uses full range paper cones or paper cone tweeter and paper woofer. I don’t think they’ve ever changed from that :)
very witty @surfitlive
The drivers are made out of a mixture of fibers. Bose uses "paper" cones because doped fiber has a higher stiffness to mass ratio. I actually prefer the sound over using plastic cones. The drivers have a warm sound that is easy to listen to. They have a sound that reminds me of vintage tube gear.
Lots of people prefer older (well made) paper cone drivers for their smoother yet still present, highs. IE on the 301s in this video.
@@RennieAsh I was in the Bose shop today you are correct they never changed , and i told the Bose manager why are there so many people on youtube bagging the bose system his words were they cant afford one so they have to bag the best system we have been around for a long time so must be doing something right so have just brought a Full Bose surround sound including roof speakers 2 subwoofers
Joe on the "I Was Wrong About the Bose 301 IV" video most speaker cloth is clear from a sonic perspective. The grill cloth is made to be left on it is a special weave so not just any cloth or foam will work.
Hey boo, I have a question. What's an affordable (under 100 dollhairs) powered speaker system (or soundbar, etc) that I can use with my computer system that has some kind of a Automatic volume limiter system or Automatic gain control/ automatic volume control for night time listening that's great to listen to where I can watch movies without disturbing my roommates?
Get one of the two Vizio sound bars I reviewed. Preferably the one with the sub. Just disconnect it at night. I think they both had auto volume leveling.ruclips.net/video/KQpUT8orAc8/видео.html
Also, I hope "boo" was an auto-correct thing. 😂
It's much closer, but the sound signature is quite different between the two. The SVS sounds a bit livelier to me and the midrange is much more natural. The Bose sounds like coming from a box still. BTW, is the phase correct for the Bose recording?
Hi, Joe.
Thanks for this second video.
My conclusion is the Boses win when it comes to unreal, synthetic sounds (there is no point of reference in the real world, and sound more "euphonic").
When natural sounds come into scene, the SVS are by far the winners, specially in the voice of the singer and in the piano jazz piece (here, nevertheless, there is a clear lack of presence of the double bass, wich the Boses reproduce with authority).
Finally (and you can easily check it), its a pity that the acoustic guitar tracks have the channels in opposition of phase, making the comparison quite unvalid.
Anyway, thanks a lot for your honesty and your efforts.
You're a RUclips crack, my friend!
Euphonic...I like that term.
The speakers were always in-phase as I didn't change any settings between tracks there might have been some crosstalk between the two mics and two speakers which could possible cause cancellation, but that happens in-person also.
SVS are still the clear winner, that details in the mids and the controled/neutral sound it offers reveal a lot more than the v-shaped Bose that shows only bass and treble. Bose has impressive design and engineering behind their products, but because they want to "normalized" a sound that is easy to listen for most people and combine it with their ease of use, their price can't be justified only by SQ.
He is using older Bose bookshelf speakers which was released in somewhere 1998-2004 and for SVS is a recent speakers. So u can't compared older version with the newer version. Both products should compared with the recent release.
@@NaushadAli-et3jo true, but I am speaking for Bose in general. With time out of the subject, Bose never claimed and never did make the best sounding speakers in the industries. They make ok sounding gear, and even comparing them to JBL, PSB, Paradigm or other serious brand from the same era, it's not even a close match.
Yup!
@@vb9766 JBL, Psb and Paradigm the outlook looks great but compare for Technology, component Bose are much better than these 3 speakers you had mention. As Bose component are made and assembled in Mexico not in China. Some of great speakers you mentioned are nowadays are from China,Taiwan and Thailand. But it's depends individual liking .I also like Bowers and Wilkins, Piega,Legacy to name few but for technology and research Bose are more advance and far ahead of them.Bose is not a speakers companies, they are a research company doing research not only in sound but on others systems as well.Thks
@@NaushadAli-et3jo Some quality control can be as good or better in China than other country, it all depends on the company quality standard. I don't think this is a good way to compare overall quality. Btw Paradigm speakers are made in Canada, and many more are assembled in the USA. Bose more advanced? Probably in enclosure making, but since their drivers and products don't sound near as good as other products the same price, are they really that "advanced"? They probably have fantastic professionnal telecommunication systems and pro products that are expensive as hell, but whatever one may say, their price/performance ratio in the consumers range of their products are not so good when sound is the only things that matter. Cheers!
Thanks for the update.
My first venture into home audio like many was Bose way back in the early 90's. I've come full circle and actually own the Bose Soundtouch 300 soundbar and matching sub for my living room. I really enjoy this combo for what it is and the simplicity of it and so does my family. Oh, and I was able to get both for $399/ea during last years black Friday sale at the local military PX. They will never replace my Buchardt s400 system in the basement but they were never intended too.
Full circle? lol. Just mentioning Bose and soundbar in the same sentence should omit you from voting for a president.
Great review, Joe. I have never cared for the 301 or any Bose product, but I am, by no means, a Bose hater.
The Bose sound tighter for sure. Thanks for updating that video because I had Bose Speakers in the 90’s and they banged the party always. The SVS sound really good in some areas but the BOSE brings the sounds closer. I’m getting a pair ASAP.
The level matching sound test... reminds me of the basis of the "loudness war". It was claimed that if it sounds louder, people tend to like it more.
Bose 301s first hit the market in the early 70s and have really only changed in cabinet appearance since then. The use of paper cones in the woofer and tweeters give the speakers a more natural acoustic sound. Back then speakers were categorized as east coast (usually acoustic suspension) such as Advent, AR; and west coast (usually bass reflex) such as JBL. East coast speakers were generally more accurate but subdued while west coast speakers were brighter with accentuated upper bass. Bose kind of split the difference with its own sound maintaining the warmer east coast sound while using the room's acoustics to open it up. Then, as now, their sound was the source of disagreement among listeners. Back then it was not unusual to have a get-together at which the only source of entertainment was listening to music. Taste in music and speaker performance was often influenced by what the listener was drinking and/or smoking. I've owned two pairs of 301's--The original which I bought in the mid 70s and the Sonata 25th anniversary edition that I bought in 1998, I've always found them to be pleasant to listen to. As you say, they need to be set up right to sound right. As a senior, it's nice to find a younger person who actually cares how a speaker sounds. Keep up the good work.
WHOA. The gap really closed up. Bose can compete with the SVS. Good show.
For me Bose is the best
Bose always âmzing and easy popular
Vocals come alive on the SVS. The Bose sound stage is fairly beefy sounding with the boosted low end response. Like many speakers, I still think it comes down to the source being played. Is it pop, instrumental, electronic? The Bose win the "party" contest in my opinion, but the SVS seems to take the cake when it comes to tightness and clarity. That being said, the guitar in the last track sounded very natural to me on the Bose. I was surprised by that.
Bose feel like a live music. Bose is different, for me is difficult to compare a direct/reflecting system with a direct system. I have a 301V and is very important the distances from the walls (rear and side walls), for two reasons, 1.- bass reflex 2.- reflecting tweeter. Probably in this test the reflecting tweeter is not recognised from the microphone, or not enough.
The SVS speakers sounds very good but for me the high freq. are little bit bother.
Thank you for the videos!
While I'll never get a Bose product. (Maybe their noise canceling headphones, I hear they are great) I can see why people like them.
I took another pair of speakers, sat them on top of my main speakers, and fired it the opposite direction to the mains. While it's not an exact comparison, It did things to my brain and I liked it. But at the end of the day it's not what I really enjoy as it was too unfocused for my taste long term, but I can see that those Bose 301 do something similar and how people might like it.
Great video. Sometimes you have to look at things differently than the way you know. These aren't directed to most audio enthusiasts who have speakers like SVS and whatnot, so you can't really compare them the same way. They both are speakers, but throw the sound out in different ways, to do different things.
Thanks for you insight as always Josh!
What I'm doing is probably totally "wrong" but I love the way it sounds. I have my 301's reversed (left/right), mounted near the ceiling on computer monitor arms, angled slightly down and in (which angles the full range in, and the tweeters on the outside, facing nearly forward), paired with an inexpensive powered subwoofer. The whole room sounds really good to me for such an inexpensive set of speakers.
It's good to experiment
If you use omnidirectional microphone you can point the mic towards the ceiling and capture the direct reflect.
will these work for a bedroom stereo or should i get the acoustimass 5 series IV
What would you recommend for height speakers ? I have heard a number of “atmos” height speakers and they are utter and absolute junk, wouldn’t it be more logical to use a simple bookshelf speaker and change the layout and angle it’s position is to enhance the experience ? Just curious to know what you think and recommend
If you're talking about upfiring speakers, I'm not a big fan. If you mean ceiling speakers, just get something that matches the voicing of your existing system.
Haven't heard 301's since the early '90s. Probably the 301 Version II, which I thought was respectable in doing exactly that, eliminating the sweet spot and throwing out a decent stereo everywhere sound. One of their better speakers, period for this since you can actually put these on a bookshelf and still get something from them. Better for background listening than the audiophile critical mania. But, let's be honest, a lot of us have the music on as we work or surf the net, etc. And it's quite pleasant.
Example, I recently upgraded from Micca MB42Xs as my desktop speaker to some REALLY old school, Pinnacle PN5+ bookies. Back in the late '80s early '90s these little guys took NY by storm for the fact that they sounded so BIG for such a small speaker (yeah they are bigger than Miccas, have a 5" driver, but they're running that near ubiquitous Audax polycarbonate tweeter from that time-which, images far better than it should. You find it on B.A. A40s, Baby Advents, Pinnacles, DCM CX series, etc.-it was everywhere. I believe even some smaller Infinities housed this tweeter. It could get a little taxing sometimes, but well implemented it was not bad! The Pinnacles blow out the smaller Miccas in the appearance of lower bass! It may be illusory or not, they claim a low end of 50Hz? For their size they are very hard to beat for computer, easy listening!
My (seaside and university) town has 1997 301s in both the Pier (pub, and nightclub booths "overpowered" by Crest Audio CA-series amps) and Student Union (main room, landing and basement for daytime radio). Both places (a steep hill apart from each other) were obviously done by the same company (even though owned/operated by different ones to each other) as they both also use RCF speakers and subs for the "main" installed sound reinforcement systems in the SU main room and Pier nightclub FOH, and two of the pub speakers are also big RCFs but wired in parallel with the 301s rather than their own system, also powered by the Crest Audio amps.
I have some of these from 1996 that were given to me by my grandma (definitely not abused haha). I wonder if they sound any better than the newer ones?
What equipment do you use to check the frequency curve of the speakers and how do you go about it ?
Please see my recent video about DSP.
Couldn't the device(s) (amp and speakers) that the listener is hearing these files on, be affected by different devices?
Joe N Tell I have watched recently all the videos you done about Bose. The one where you explain the Bose secret and the both testing the 301
Good job! and thank you a lot about the clarification.
Only that I really would be appreciated that you just test the Acoustimass... that are in fact the most famous system.
I have one AM5 series 3, I am using it because of the AM module due my AV receiver has damaged the subwofer output.
After using the AM5 series 3 in that gear, I was happy with it, I bought a pair of Kef C55 and they are enough for this gear.
And I am using now the AM in my desk, as a 2.1 system and for this purpose it’s very good.
But I tested to change the AM satellites with a Vieta Neo 10 I have... and...it’s awasome. It’s crealy better becasue these Vieta Satellites has a double 3,5" woofer and a 10 mm tweeter and a frequency response 75 Hz - 20 kHz
That means yu can use different speakers together with the AM module, but I am also using the AM satellites substituying the ones in a small 2.1 computer speakers and they are also working great.
Thank you for your videos
I'm glad that you researched the Bose..
However, you can test both speakers in a larger room and put you measuring equipment in the center of the room and at the opposite side of the room and show the results..
This would be a more versatile and more accurate test.
Can you suggest a good budget amplifier for the Bose 301s?
Compared to the last video the Bose do sound a lot less dull. How accurate would you rate the recordings in comparisson to hearing them live ? I feel like due to the different way of distributing sound while creating that wider sound stage the recordings may not deliver 'the real deal' . But still this video is putting the bose in a better light.
It's not so much that it sounds accurate when heard live, but when I play the recording back on good/flat speakers, it gives me a really good idea what the speakers really sound like if I had them here in place of the other speakers. The general tonal characteristics, it's frequency response it comes through in the recording. It doesn't sound like it did live because I try my best to reduce as much of the room as possible from the recording. If you haven't seen my video about Soundstage and Sound Demos, you might find it interesting.
I have my 301's in the garage and I like the way they fill the space. The sound quality doesn't drop off much as I move about working on projects.
That makes sense
Would it be fair to just have 1 Khz tone off and just get the decibel reading on that to sound match two speakers ?
That's one way. Using pink noise is better though as it takes into account the rest of the frequencies
Funny how the sounds is been cut off in the part of the "The jazz and piano, 12m02s till 13m16s", I listens to this demo thru my Sennheiser HD 650 Audiophile Open Dynamic Headphones, the difference between the Bose 301 and the SVS bookshelf is big, even with the adjustend mic settings. And just because Bose choose the be for the none audiophile, it is not my choice of sound system.
Clearity on sounds is key, you can't cut on corners there. But good to see you correct the mistakes and be honost about it.. that alone gives the respect.
A friend had a set of those Bose speakers and they sounded pretty good. No sub needed. Produces enough bass by itself. But I felt the highs weren’t the best. I’m a fan of klipsch in wall speakers. I really enjoy the brightness of the horns. But I will my admit my klipsch in walls aren’t the best for music. I do have a 15” klipsch powered sub and the two go together well. But there’s something about those bose 301 speakers
I listen to music on some 301's and they don't require a sub. They also are very efficient and don't require alot of power.
It is great that you make up on the comments about Bose Speakers, I am not a pro audiophile just an ordinary consumer but here are few things about Bose people commonly mistaken off;
1. Bose are not a “regular “speakers, it is a more of all in one sound box, that means it can not compare to a std left right speakers setting, more like a Apple compare to an orange.
2. Most of the Bose speak has build in audio enhancement circuits, it works in a very mysterious way that Bose will not disclose but they do tell you do not use any kind of eq on you audio system.
So over all I think Bose is trying to give novice audience with concerts like sounds experience without extra cost on the Hifi setup and almost dummy proof way of setting it up and have great sound.
I have 4 each of the Bose 401s and the AM5 set. I've had these for over 30 years and they still work fine. The 401s lack the highs and are hard to drive (4 ohm speakers). The AM5s are OK but have been surpassed by many bookshelf speakers today. I enjoyed them in their day and have lugged them around for years. I still have them, but no longer use them. If nothing else, they are durable. I did really want the Bose 901s after I heard a demo in 1968 (in Hong Kong), but just couldn't justify spending the huge price premium demanded to own then. They did sound spectacular, but I had nothing to compare them to. I eventually bought the Pioneer CS63 DXs, which were great speakers at that time. I ended up blowing out one of the woofers on that set, so I no longer have them.
In listening to your audio samples, both in the first review and the amended version, the Bose 301s sound muted and lack detail. This is especially evident when compared to the SVS speaker system. I recently purchased the Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 speakers and the Q Acoustics 3030i and have set them up as A and B speaker zones with all speakers playing together. I would appreciate a review of the Diamond 12.2 speakers. You have the Diamond 12.1s rated highly, but I'm curious about your opinion of the more recent version.
The Wharfedales sound laid back to me and not as dynamic as the 3030i speakers, but the combo is just amazing. I have the Wharfedales closer to the center and the 3030is on the sides in a stereo setup. I have a wall of sound that surrounds me in a semi-circle. The lively 3030i speakers compensate for the laid back sound of the Diamond 12.2s and the result (lively but full sound) is really pleasing to the ear.
I won't be purchasing any Bose speakers in the future, especially after hearing how they sound in comparison to the speakers of today. They do make good headphones but there are so many good headphones today so I don't believe I'll be buying any made by Bose. They are still too pricey nowadays.
I bought my first pair of speakers while I was in the US Army back in the 70's. They were a pair of Bose 301's. I thought they sounded great at the time. A few years later I picked up a pair of Bose 501's and enjoyed the slightly deeper bass due to the larger 10" woofers. I ended up buying two more pairs of 301's until I realized that the foam speaker surrounds had disintegrated on the original 301 and 501 pairs. I bought a repair kit and replaced the foam surrounds, but then moved on to Definitive Technology BP2002 powered towers, which blow away the Bose any day of the week. I recently bought a small Blue Tooth amplifier and brought out the old 501's and use them in my bedroom now. They still have that Bose sound, which after all these years, isn't so bad after all.
BIG difference for sure and the Bose actually sound pretty decent here. I'm just like you... I can't STAND being wrong, but you weren't technically wrong.... your methods were flawed. :) Not that you were wrong about being wrong... ;) LOL
bose is always bad...doesnt matter what youre editing. never seen a hifi professionell that says bose is good. never
I worked in home/car audio in the mid 90s, and the 201/301 were the only bose products I could sell with a clear conscience. FOR THE TIME, they were decent. They're not critical listening speakers, but they presented a "big sound", and were flexible to room placement. And NO ONE that's under SAF can place speakers where they need to be.
Anything by Henry Kloss sounded better. But they had a smaller listening spot and required proper placement. Bose was sloppy and sounded big. And for those what wanted big, they were a good fit.
They use some clever tricks to achieve their goals like using the cone tweeters in the 301`s and other direct-reflecting products. Cone tweeter tend to "Beam" more than a dome tweeter would from a lower freuency, due to their bigger surface area. So very suitable for pointing sound towards a specific area.
Those tricks are called common sense 😂
For svs you need a bigger sub woofer to get the full affect. It sounds very narrow. Whereas boses are more dispersed and full. If you had these in a shop where sounds were bouncing off the top half of the walls it would be a lot better than svs. So for all rounder i would go for bose. But if you have a deeper pocket to add a subwoofer maybe rear or surround speakers with a better dsp amp, yea svs would give a more clear leveled sound.
Hi let me to ask you is the bose home 500 is good enough for streaming music as an audiophile?
Thanks for using different genres of music. I think that Alan Walker type would be better on the Bose, as the midrange on the SVS will fatigue my ear very quickly. The acoustic track at the end is way better on the SVS, simply because somewhere in the midrange information is not as prominent on the Bose. The jazz track sounded good on both, as did the vocal track. In the end I suspect what you listen to determines what you buy. Bose is definitely more classic rock, SVS is for the more acoustically inclined.
Having owned 301's since 1978, the problem that I have with the SVS Primes is that their sound is extremely narrow in targeting, aka: A very small sweet spot footprint. If only the more spacious sounding Bose 301's highs were as clear as the SVS Primes; issue is directly related to the 301's tweeters. Such a simple fix, yet I do not know Bose will not act on it; may have to do with keeping the Signal-to-Noise Ratio low.
I think its amazing how much imaging comes through with the speakers mic'd up like that. SVS still wins on that point to me. I dont like the source song for comparing speakers because it has heavy range compression and lacks many details. I dont have a better suggestion though because I know it would be difficult to find something that wouldnt be immediately flagged by some record label.
Thanks. If you find some better tracks, I'm open.
I like the sounds of Bose 301......with bass ambient that makes music pleasant to hear.
Nice job joe. Hey a speaker considered warm, what frequencies are they referring to? Bass / mid bass / mids? And when a reciever has bass adjustment, what frequency does that usually start from? I know it wouldn't be the same for brands or equipment, but approximations maybe? Thanks
That's a tough question. I typically like to measure and show graphs because that's better at describing the sound than subjective terms like warm. To me warm usually refers to a sound signature with rolled off highs with an extended low frequency response. I would hesitate to say anything about bass or midbass because any boost there could make it sound muddy or boomy. Instead, I think it's about how far out it extends on the low-end compared to the high-frequency roll-off.
If a receiver has basic bass/treble tone controls, they usually hinge on 1khz. Bass controls change sound below 1khz and treble controls above. This is generally speaking.
@@joentell ok thanks Joe. I like graphs too and love seeing them on these audio channels
Typically tone controls are centered a 100HZ for the bass and 10KHZ for the treble. However as Joe says they will affect sound up to or down to about 1KHz. Yamaha receivers used to center their tone controls at 20Hz and 20KHZ but I am not sure if they still do that. It kept the controls from having as much affect on the midrange.
That sounds about right.
@@JHuffPhoto right on, thanks
I have a Pioneer SX-650 driving four 301's positioned in 4 top corners of a larger rectangular room. I've been pushing regular standard directional speakers over the years, but I could suggest, even with just two 301's, the others seem to lack the "everywhere" sound the reflectives provide. For projection speakers I position myself to hear their premium projections respectively, and yes, they sounded more optimal than 301's. Self analyzing sound using quality music is one thing, but I test also by listening to DVD movies, LP's, streamed movies, even RUclips i.e. crappy PC sources...and ask myself, "will my irritated by anything discerning friends or family tolerate this noise? Does it feel good to them a.k.a. the General Population with just a flip of the switch and a spin on the volume? FWIW, either the 301x2 or 301x4, most laymen prefer the 301 setup. I believe it's more "encompassing". as if it comes from nowhere and yet is everywhere. I do have to employ a software equalizer on the Mac for the streaming sources. Audibly, we are able to easily make out the "actors voices" and enjoy the soundtrack and effects without feeling muddy or mixed with other sounds, yet still sound huge. Voices are heard clearly as is the the brushing of an eyelash in a thunderstorm from anywhere in the room, including leaving the room, such as going to the kitchen or bathroom. Nor is there the often irritating booming woofer sound coming out of the voices that I get with home theater wiring and box kits. The wall reflection (its designed for) seems to work - to the normal ears. The ears of the listeners that don't know the difference between a songbird or a truck horn. Another test is the vacuum test. With the 301 setup, I can actually clearly hear a movie or a song just the same even whilst vacuuming. I am always amazed by this and laugh tauntingly at the vacuum as it blares its unworldly screech at me and the cat. I don't miss a single lyric. Hmm, maybe I should test with a leaf blower. I simply like the everywhere sound that reflection speakers fill. Perhaps they don't sound as well as the Primes "technically", but the Primes don't hold up when it comes to working in an industrial environment like as in my house. Just my experience in one room. I like what the Bose's do for the price, because I can find them at bargains used as everyone sets them out on the curb free for the taking. Heck maybe I'll go 301x8, 4 corners top and floors --- so it sounds 8 times worse than everything else.