What happened to Turkish Airlines flight 1951?!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- Get 68% off on the Two year deal with Nord VPN and a further month OFF using this code 👉🏻 www.nordvpn.org/pilot or use the coupon code “pilot”
On the 25th of February 2009 Turkish Airways flight 1951, a Boeing 737-800, from crashed 0.9nm short of runway 18R in Amsterdam, Schiphol international airport.
The aircraft was flown with 3 pilots in the cockpit, none of them noticed how the airspeed became dangerously low during the approach or how the Auto-throttle was working against them.
In this episode of my Air-crash investigation series I will give you all the information contained in the Final report issued regarding this tragic event.
As always, all links used to create this episode is available in below.
Now! Come in to the Mentour Aviation app and discuss what You think about this! Download the app for FREE using the link below 👇
📲
📲 Mentour Pilot Discord invite 👉🏻 / discord
If you want to support the work I do on the channel, join my Patreon crew and get awesome perks and help me move the channel forward! 👇
👉🏻 / mentourpilot
I have also created an Amazon page with Aviation books, material and flight simulator stuff that I think you will enjoy!
👉🏻 www.amazon.com/shop/mentourpilot
Follow my life on instagram and get awesome pictures from the cockpit!
📲 / mentour_pilot
Artwork in the studio 👉🏻 plakaty_lotnicz...
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:46 Welcome to the episode
02:50 Systems involved
09:22 The Human element
11:55 The approach
29:33 The Crash
30:34 Conclusions
33:53 Nord VPN Offer to YOU
34:47 Full simulation with ATC
38:10 End
Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. Enjoy checking them out!
Crash Site Image: Radio Nederland Wereldomroep / Fred Vloo
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Crash Site Image: Radio Nederland Wereldomroep / Fred Vloo
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Crash Site Image: Radio Nederland Wereldomroep / Fred Vloo
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Memorial Site Image: Daniel Blok
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Turkish Airlines Image: Pawel Kierzkowski
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Crash Site Image: @FAA
/ test-article-the-crash...
Aircraft Engineer Photo: @ jobsinaviation.com
www.jobsinaviation.com/Images...
Crash Site relative to Runway: @Dutch Safety Board
www.onderzoeksraad.nl/image/2...
SpeedBrake Image: @MJFAMP
737ng-sim.com/projects/main-in...
Flying in the rain: @123Rf
media.cntraveller.in/wp-conte...
Final report on Human Factors:
"Report of the Flight Crew Human Factors Investigation Conducted for the Dutch Safety Board Into the Accident of TK1951, Boeing 737-800 Near Amsterdam Schiphol Airport"
Get 68% off on the Two year deal with Nord VPN and a further month OFF using this code 👉🏻 www.nordvpn.org/pilot or use the coupon code “pilot”
really detailed and yet another well👌🏽 presented de-briefing Petter🙂sir
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it
Oh... QVC on RUclips? Ahhh... no, it’s only a poor Pilot who needs to fill his fridge.
You have many followers and maybe, this was/is a good channel.
But when the Clip ends and I remember more about VPN, learning platforms etc, than the main content, something is wrong.
Pascal (aeronewsgermany) couldn’t fly since weeks and as a beginner in the cockpit, he don’t earn much money now.
Even he can live without „advertising-bombs“.
Sometimes less is more.
Is it possible to increase it by one percent?
@@MentourPilot May I suggest AF 447 next?
"autothrottle comes back up like a good boy" that's a lovely little insight into the relationship between pilots and their aircraft. love it
I cracked up when he said that lmao
Yeah, this made me sputter and I ended up in giggles at that, it sounded like he started saying it, realised what he was saying, and then just went "well.. I've started, might as well commit to it."
I had to listen back with captions😂😂😂
as an aviation enthusiast i whole-heartedly agree with calling aircraft systems "good boys"
As I've been learning to fly, one thing that really stood out to me in the Airplane Flying Handbook is, in the landing section, how often paragraphs effectively end in, "if the any aspect of the approach is not correct, go around. Do not attempt to force the landing."
Much better to explain a go around than for the NTSB figure out why you didn't.
That is exactly the message which is consistently communicated with every RUclips video that explains an airplane crash. Nobody has any idea as to how many airplane crashes happened simply because a pilot forced a landing.
@@johnstreet819 Better yet, most aeronautics legal bodies (i.e. the FAA) mandate that all go-arounds are considered 'no fault'. So most airline companies cannot punish their pilots if they do a go-around.
There are no old, bold pilots. Superior pilots use their superior judgement to avoid situations requiring their superior skill. I could go on. All of these platitudes boil down to "don't get cocky, don't get complacent, and don't fly fatigued".
@@tissuepaper9962 Don't be too precious about being a crusty old alpha male who doesn't need to follow procedure or listen to junior crew in the cockpit. CRM often doesn't work well in cultures that are too focused on pecking order and hierarchy.
My uncle was in this flight. Thankfully he survived.
So glad to hear that he survived, some good news in this tragic accident.
Very Glad he survived its also sad that some did not make it including the pilots. However, sitting in plane with total Amateurs in control is a scary thought. Its 100% the Pilots Crew fault and that on many levels. I mean yeah like i said its sad they did not make it but this doesnt change the fact of the matter.
Must have been traumatic for you and your family. Glad he made it. Comfort to the loved ones of the people that didn’t make it.
मेरा भी फुफ्फा जी इसी फ़्लाइट में थे।
Thnk god बच गए बेचारे म्हारे फुफ्फा..
आपकी दुआओं का शुक्र है भेंचो
@@DrumL3000 how else are they ment to get in air experience?
A few days ago, I had never seen your videos. Today, and several dozen videos later, I'm like, "Watch your glide slope, man!"
...and don't dual input!
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 Exactly! Lol
@@huwzebediahthomas9193Yes!
The Dual Input has killed many hundreds of People 😭
Same😂😂
Those last words "we have a very big emergency, looks like we lost a plane" sent a chill down my spine. Words you never want to hear from a controller.
Indeed.
@@erischaot there are a lot of channels that effectively depend on people dying for their content, if you want to go straight to the arguably worst it is true crime homicide documentaries or police brutality coverage.
I think the counter-argument can _always_ be made that this content helps people learn how to avoid disaster. nothing is a better advertisement for handguns for self defense than true crime documentaries, mass shooting coverage, and pretty much any political drama that those two things generate.
your point might seem like an easy reaction, but it's not easy to argue that perspective.
That was in reply to me.
The thing that sent chills down for me was how quick the 50,40,30,20 were said by Mentour and the aircraft system. You're used to hearing that slowly, but the speed it's said during this video and flight is crazy. 29:44
It was said so calmly...
My father was one of the first firefighters on site. The rescue was very hard cause the heavy trucks couldn’t drive over the soft muddy ground. Being one of the first firefighters inside, he described being amazed by the durable honeycomb material protecting the cockpit “being ripped apart like paper”. It’s a miracle this many people survived.
Thank you for your service
My doctor helped my sprained ankle.
As a computer engineer, I have to say intermittent failures are a real pain to diagnose
Indeed.
Especially when the machine takes a dive into the ground
@@GuardDog42
They flew it into the ground.
Yes, and maybe a worse pain is when the device starts working after you leave it for the night
As computer engineer, you should know that software are very unstable and that’s a part of the job. Intermittent problems outside software are really hard to solve.
I followed these guys in. They were #1, a Transavia was #2 & we were #3. I could see on the TCAS that we were all far too close, and someone wasn't getting in. When the Transavia was sent around, I said 'Bingo' to my F/O 'We're in!'. Then we were sent around, and as this happened they said 'did you see any wreckage?' I diverted to Rotterdam and the pax disembarked silently. It still gives me the chills. We were Flyer 78A. Before the last reply from me you hear on the tape, I asked 'What's going on down on the ground- can we expect another approach?'
That's crazy, is that your voice on the very end?
How harrowing
The production value of this is incredibly high, it's clear a lot of effort and care has gone into making this, particularly the graphics and illustrations.
Indeed, this was excellently produced.
The mastery of After Effects demonstrated here is staggering.
I agree totally! Technicality of infographics/visuals on this video is impressive but also the structure of the story telling is so enticing. In my eyes, this is If not better, same quality of what I have watched on science channel crash reports.
@@Simsimay Presentation by a senior training Captain makes all the difference. He knows that of which he speaks.
That landing gear warning loop could use some work, but everything else was great.
Altimeter: We're currently tunnelling through the ground.
Autopilot: Sounds legit. Shutdown the engines.
Boing logic . . . same mess on the Starliner . . .
my first reaction in first 3 minuets sounds wrong feels wrong dont do it to late sounds like boing made it complicated so if it crashed pilot was at fault money again.
Haha Its funny
Still laughing
Sadly Boeing wasn't honest about their flight computer and sensor problems for a very long time and kept postponing taking any responsibility!! Such as for this crash they offered Turkish airlines a massive discount for new planes, in fact Turkish airlines has the cheapest 737-800s and 737-900ERs in the sector which was why they decided to sue Boeing first then changed their mind!! Ofc there was also pilot error that inexperienced first-officer couldn't spot or state malfunctions while the captain was simply overwhelmed as he was doing some of first-officer's job as well but the real problem was Boeing again who didn't properly share these problems with airlines and organized better simulation training that exactly same happened with Max and the company is facing billions of dollars fine now...
@@ggoddkkiller1342 I think 737NG is a way better plane than that of the MAX
Yes Boeing sadly now only tries to only money keeping safety at stake
Until the day of this plane crash, there were 2569 complaints about the radio altimeter problem in Boeing 737-800 model aircraft. Boeing company stated that this problem will not affect flight safety. Of course, it is easy to blame the pilot as in many accidents. It is both easy and profitable. I am sorry for everyone who lost their lives in the accident, I wish patience to their relatives. By the way, the video editing is great.
Yes, despite the shortcomings by the crew, they shouldn't have been in this position. Boeing don't seem to have taken the r/a failures seriously. There are many ways monitoring systems for intermittent problems but it seems like the best they could come up with was a bit of sealant.
Wow. We call that negligence in medicine!
To be fair to Boeing, though, the autopilot DID warn the pilots of this flight. The autopilots shut themselves off and made a warning noise (the first officer noticed and switched autopilot B back on). Also, the captain knew he needed to look at the altimeter (he muttered about it before the autopilots shut off). They openly acknowledged the altimeter's fault on the captain's side. The pilots should've known something was very wrong. They should've known to go around and troubleshoot. They should've known they needed to land manually. The plane told them something was wrong with it, and the pilots blatantly ignored it.
The loss of life was tragic, and Boeing definitely should've done something more about the radio altimeter, but we can't lay more blame than that on Boeing. Their plane gave the pilots multiple chances to rectify the situation.
I think it's worth pointing out that this is pretty much literally the worst set of circumstances short of an emergency that a crew could face for the radio altimeter problem to rear its head. The Approach phase is already one of the highest-workload phases of flight for any crew - but on top of that you have an increased workload on the part of both pilots due to the navigation problem caused by the weather, leading to the late interception of the localiser. The Training Captain's attention is being diverted from his "First Officer" monitoring role both by the intermittent alarms and the need to support the First Officer's training by keeping an eye on his solution to the late interception (and the possibility of intervening if necessary). The Safety Pilot is handling communications with the cabin crew, which compromises his attention on the flight instruments and controls. As for the trainee First Officer himself, training and checkrides are a high-pressure situation in the first place, he's still not particularly familiar with the aircraft and procedures, he's aware that there have been abnormalities with the aircraft systems, but - possibly because the Captain has not raised them as an issue - he does not question continuing the approach. He's also probably got a concern in the back of his mind that because the Captain had to intervene to get the aircraft established on the ILS, this might end up having a negative impact on the Captain's assessment of his skills (and potentially his new career as a whole).
All of the crew were expecting the throttles to roll back at the point they did, and they probably caught sight of that in their peripheral vision - but because they are expecting it, none of them note that the throttles have retarded all the way to idle far too early. Turkish Airlines' SOP concerning the Captain being the only crew member who can call for a go-around is problematic here for two reasons - firstly because it means that neither the trainee FO nor the Safety Pilot FO have "call for go-around" as part of their mental model, and secondly because this SOP does not take into account a scenario where a Captain is task-saturated (as seems to have been the case here) and misses cues as a result. In effect, they designed a "single point of failure" into their procedures.
Boeing's approach to the radio altimeter issues (insisting it would not affect flight safety) was at best lax and at worst inexcusable. I have to wonder if there was an actual proper systems safety analysis performed on the consequences of this failure in all phases of flight, because with over 2,500 reports of the radio altimeter failures being reported by crews, there damned well should have been. It certainly falls well below the standards they set in the 1960s, and is reminiscent of the effort they put into trying to prove that the 737's rudder PCU issues which became infamous in the '90s must have been caused by unintentional pilot input, rather than spending that effort (and money) looking more deeply into the problem. Now in that latter case , it's only fair to point out that it was a Boeing engineer who eventually discovered the potential flaw in the PCU valve design and manufacturing process, and when it was discovered, the company very quickly reconvened the NTSB and FAA safety groups to eventually solve the issue... However, I can't help but think that if they had set the engineering department to assess the problem more thoroughly after UA585 in 1991, the lives lost on US427 may have been saved.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 - The "pilots" didn't ignore it. One glaring issue was that Turkish Airlines' SOP was that only the Captain had the authority to call for a go-around, which meant neither the Safety Pilot nor the FO under training had "call for go-around" as part of their mental model (or set of options). The Captain in this case had his attention split multiple ways - firstly, he had his designated role as Pilot Monitoring during approach phase, secondly his role in assessing the trainee (and being prepared to intervene if necessary), thirdly trying to resolve the navigation issue caused by the westerly winds and correct the ILS interception, and finally probably trying to figure out what was causing the alarms and indications which indicated a technical abnormality. In other words, there was only one person on the flight deck who could call for a go-around, and he was task-saturated to the extent that he failed to notice the flight missing the "landing gate". While mistakes were made by the crew, and the problematic SOP giving only the Captain go-around authority were brought to light by this accident - the fact is that Boeing should have performed a proper systems safety analysis regarding the consequences of RA failure well before then.
Man, I remember this, I live in Amsterdam. At the time, no-one knew what had caused it (..and so brilliantly explained here), everyone was just amazed that 126 people survived that crash. A tragic accident for the 9 people that perished, RIP
I think captain was the one that made it possible. He probably realised what was about to unfold thus lifted the nose so that the tail would absorb most of the impact from the crash. Though some casualties were inevitable, it could’ve been way worse if he wasn’t for him. So even though he was the one that caused the crash (by not ordering a go around at 1000 feet) he was the one that made the “miracle” happen as well, at the cost of his crewmates and himself that is.
I'm binge watching and pretty surprised how many crashes, which end in the disintegration of the plane, have just a few fatalities. I always thought this only happens when pilots loose control of the aircraft while breaking on the tarmac after landing...
This was one of the best presentations I've seen, much MUCH better than even the high budget documentaries that over-dramatize the situation. Extraordinarily well done.
True!
Agreed. This gentleman is fantastic ! I'm terrified of heights, but I'm fascinated by flight. Go figure.
"MUCH better than even the high budget documentaries that over-dramatize the situation."
You mean the ones that start with 'happy children playing in a yard' and are still 20 minutes and five commercials from when the damn plane even takes off ?
@@CraftAero Lol.
@@GFHanks I’ve heard of some pilots being afraid of heights, some people don’t seem to be affected by it when in a plane 👍
5 years ago when I found this channel it was only maybe a few thousand of us. Now there are 660k and I’ve become a pilot in the airline you just talked about. This is a very sad event that’s still in our memories. A classic Swiss cheese situation. The way you relayed the accident is spot on, as always. Thanks for all the great content and inspiration.
Hi Sinan! I’m so happy for you and your success!
Thank you for being a loyal follower of the channel. I really appreciate that.
CONGRATULATIONS
Captain Kaptan cool.
@@MentourPilot
This is the longest reply I have ever seen you give someone. I guess it makes sense, though - you are hoping Sinan Kaptan will tell all his or her friends about your channel. Smart man, if shifty.
Congratulations, Pilot Sinan Kaptan.
Moral of the story; scream GO AROUND, even if you think you might be rude to the boss. No matter the SOP in your airline, if beeps or bumps happen in the cockpit and you're close to the ground, you go around and figure out what is going on. The aircraft needs time to react, you need time to think, everybody needs time to communicate, and your brain needs time to react. That is too much time to solve problems instantly.
CRM has changed a lot (for the better) since 2009, thankfully.
True. The only thing that lands instantly is rain.
Every time I watch a Mentour Pilot crash analysis I’m shocked at how quickly everything goes wrong in the cockpit. There’s no time to even think before the stall warning and crash
@@SW-kr9fl when error chains start there is plenty of time to recover. But if errors are undetected or not corrected early on then as the error chain progresses there is less and less time to recover safely. From an aircraft control point of view the error chain started when the airspeed reduced below Vref (minimum approach speed). If the thrust had been assertively increased at this point (and the autothrottle overriden or disconnected) the loss of airspeed would have been arrested and corrected.
Plus, as Petter has said several times, a very late TOGA also means the fact that engines don't just spool up instantly is of critical importance. If a captain as PIC forgets to call for a checklist at the appropriate time, the F/O is duty bound to remind him or her. Hopefully, now CRM applies so that a F/O can respectfully suggest a go around in a tone and manner that clearly communicates, "We have to go around!"
Also, at what stage was APP engaged? Why the need to change altitude on the MCP? It was briefed as a CAT 1 ILS approach, so why even engage the second autopilot? Is it crucial to change because of the failure of the radio altimeter. A/P should have been disconnected, then switched. But even if my statement is correct, again, a go around was crucial.
This was a huge story in my country (Netherlands, where the accident happened) when I was younger. I'm glad you were able to break it all down and stay respectful to the victims. It truly changed Schiphol and aviation here as a whole.
It was a huge story indeed... it was in every newsoutlet for weeks on end.
What did it change because I was an adult living in the Netherlands and haven't noticed any big changes.
@@Altajp my sisters boyfriend works as air traffic controller and that’s where the biggest changes happened. Less workload per controller and changing the approach procedure to the runway in question.
I remember that news on TV still . I am in Copenhagen,Denmark.
@@michaelcao4761 It was the third crash of an Aircraft within a few weeks - and all three became famous for different reasons: first Sully´s famous landing on the Hudson River, then the infamous Colgan Air Crash in Buffalo/ New York and then this Crash.
Compared to all the TV "documentaries" about tragedies and accidents in aviation, your videos are pure gold. The amount of information about the incident and especially the insight from an expert, combined with your talent to explain the most complicated things in an understandable way ... this deserves some true respect. Great job!
Agreed! All of his videos are nothing but pure condensed information, none of the dramatic fluff, just straight facts. It’s refreshing.
Yes, the videos he makes are what documentaries are supposed to be like. Just good information and expert knowledge on a certain topic/event. Sadly, it seems especially nowadays almost all documentaries are made for drama and hollywood presentation and not really for information.
Extremely professional and having a 737-800 pilot guiding us through it made all the difference. Graphics were first class as well.
besides the pop in
I think all of mentor pilots videos are very well done. And having a real pilot doing them is a huge plus.
My family is Turkish - I grew up flying Turkish Airlines to visit my relatives in Turkey. I’ve been on a Turkish Airlines plane more than I can count, probably close to triple digits at this point. I remember being around 10 years old when this happened and how much it saddened my family to hear.
Unrelated to the crash but Turkish Airlines will always have a special place in my heart. When my father unexpectedly passed away, we made the choice to take him to Turkey to bury him. It wasn’t until then I learned that Turkish Airlines charges almost nothing to fly a Turkish citizen back home. We couldn’t be on the same plane as him so we ended up flying ahead. Even though I will probably never meet them, I owe so much gratitude to the crew of the Atlanta-Istanbul Turkish Airlines flight/route for bringing my dad safely home one final time. ❤️
fidan, I am so sorry for the loss of your father. 💙
I'm Dutch. I'm touched by reading that Turkish Airlines is this considerate to move a deceased citizen home. What an example for ALL the other airlines. Gecondoleerd met het verlies van je vader.🖤 From a Dutchie in Canada.
Fidan you have the same name of my Turkish relatives. Me too I'm fond of Turkish Airlines, flew with them almost ten times in my life and never had a negative opinion. I also love the respect they give for flying deceased citizen back home.
@@kristita_888la
Fidan i'm Turkish too. First of all i'd like to say basiniz sag olsun for the loss of your father. Now regarding Turkish Airlines, my parents refuse to fly with them. They only once flew on Turkish Airlines in 1985/1986 and the treatment the passengers saw from the flight crew was absolutely atrocious. The flight attendants were rude and arrogant, they had no food or drink services on board, even when passengers asked for a glass of water the flight attendants would tell them to go drink water from the bathroom sink if they were thirsty. I was a baby at the time and my mum asked one of the F/A if she could go to the galley and warm up my milk bottle and the F/A just swore at her and told her she should have thought about that before boarding. The only time the F/A's were working and providing a service to passengers was the short sector between Istanbul and somewhere in the Middle East since apparently there was a Turkish Governent dignitary on board traveling to the Mid East for some diplomatic reasons. As soon as the dignitary left the plane the service went back to being rude and arrogant.
My father ended up passing in 1994 and we too had to fly him back to Istanbul to bury him, on that journey we used Singapore Airlines, the staff and crew on board that flight were absolutely wonderful and amazing towards my grieving mother and she and my dad flew on the same flight from Sydney to Istanbul via Changi
We lived just around the corner from the accident site and passed by it often. The carcas of the plane was lying in the field right next to a major motorway for weeks, and to begin with, there were many serious nose-to-tail accidents on the roadway due to people slowing down to rubberneck the wreckage and getting rammed by vehicles behind them, that the local authorities were forced to erect large visual barriers to prevent them. Go figure people.
Well, I agree it's stupid to slow down to see the wreckage. But on other hand - if you drive there and you don't know what has happened - wouldn't it be wise to slow down, just to make sure you can stop the car if something is on the road or some people work there and may appear in front of your car?
Well, it's not every day that you see a wrecked airplane. I can understand why people felt an irresistible urge to take a closer look.
But yeah, safety should always come first.
rubberneck, what a cool word!
@@gandhi790 It would be wise, but, in the moment, a person might simply react, instead of thinking it through. And that's understandable.
@@SubtitledArabicSongs You haven't used the word rubberneck before?
Olgay was our friend 😞
R.I.P for all 🙏🏻
Indeed
Last time we met in a friends wedding, we talked about my fear of flight. He encouraged me to go over it ...😔
@@keremtuncer1860 I'm sorry 😕
Thank you for commenting. You have showed a lot of courage in doing so. RIP Olgay.
Basiniz sagolsun
Production of this video is amazing. !!
Thank you! We have put a lot of effort into this one.
@@MentourPilot payed off, really great
@@MentourPilot It shows, Petter, it shows! Helt topp!
@@MentourPilot as a fellow animator I can only shake the hands of your designers and animators! sooo well done, wow
@@MentourPilot the effort shows! This is taking it to the next flight level. Absolutely stunning work!
This channel is better than anything you'll find on TV
YEA AL THAT BORING SHIT
I dunno they got that hustler channel
It's frightening just how quickly things can go from being "normal" to being so out of control!
I'd say things was not under control for quite a while.
I remember a friend of mine was actualy waiting for this plane on Schiphol airport. What a shock. A few years later my girlfriend was on the same route as the MH17 but a day earlier. Altough i knew she was already on destination, it took me about 10 horrible seconds to realise that. Makes you realise a bit of the horror the family and friends of the accual victimes go trough.
r/thathappened
I have also this odd connection to both airplanes. I saw this one happening and I worked at Schiphol on this Malaysia plane, told the crew a good flight... then this when you come home you hear this horrible news....
Sadly Boeing wasn't honest about their flight computer and sensor problems for a very long time and kept postponing taking any responsibility!! Such as for this crash they offered Turkish airlines a massive discount for new planes, in fact Turkish airlines have the cheapest 737-800s and 737-900ERs in the sector which was why they decided to sue Boeing first then changed their mind!! Ofc there was also pilot error that inexperienced first-officer couldn't spot or state malfunctions while the captain was simply overwhelmed as he was doing some of first-officer's job as well but the real problem was Boeing again who didn't properly share these problems with airlines and organized better simulation training that exactly same happened with Max and the company is facing billions of dollars fine now...
@@ggoddkkiller1342 I'd say the Max issues are lot worse than this one!
@@hairyairey
Max issue:
Autopilot using a single sensor to decide actions while it supposed to use at least two out of three sensors
This crash issue:
Autopilot using a single sensor to decide actions while it supposed to use at least two out of three sensors
Did you realize there is literally no difference??!! Only real difference between this and Max that this was happening quite rare on older versions of 737 while because Max is significantly different and it is stalling with same climb rate as older 737s Boeing made autopilot to ignore pilot inputs in case of high climb rate!! So when a single sensor had malfunction and showed too much climb rate autopilot moved plane's nose down and locked the plane in that position while pilots who didn't get proper training from Boeing struggled to determine the real issue and sadly crashed before they could disengage MCAS system!! I would agree this wasn't severe as Max one but the real problem was exactly same that Boeing autopilot doing moronic things and even overwriting pilot inputs according to the corrupt data it was getting from A SINGLE SENSOR...
I would think this was a tv show its so good ! Well done i loved it.
RIP television
Agreed!
@@barrybritcher agreed! Traditional television is dead!
Agreed! Also - the TV show "Air Crash Investigation" has an episode on this accident, it's really good :-)
@@dodolurker I haven't seen that one but I'm gonna!
We've all seen air crash investigation programmes on TV but they don't have their very own currently flying expert airline training captain like we do, this makes us a very privileged community..... thank you very much Petter for such detailed, accurate and interactive videos which help us understand why these tragic events happen.
These are even more poignant when Boeing 737-800's are involved as it's your speciality aircraft. I enjoy these videos a lot, it's not a morbid curiosity but I think that even though these events are tragic, they are a steep learning curve for the aviation industry to prevent similar accidents from happening again and that benefits us all in the future.
Love your videos so much! As the daughter of a career Air Force pilot (who absolutely adored flying), these videos make me appreciate even more what he did. He started early, building a glider in High School in 1932, proceeding to join the Army Air Corps, becoming an instructor and then transferring to Great Ashfield Air Base in England as part of the 8th AF. He initially flew B-17s, and there is a detailed story about how he was able to ditch his plane, the Lulu Belle, so carefully in the English Channel (after heavy flak damage coming back from Africa), that he was able to swim back and forth to rescue some of the crew. Sadly, some were lost because they couldn't swim and he was unable to get all of them. Only one of the life rafts was usable, and it was only partially able to be inflated. They were in the water for several days before rescue, and several more of the crew perished. He was so distraught over this loss, he transferred to P-47 fighters, flying a number of missions as part of "Zemke's Wolfpack," eventually being shot down in 1944. He was literally blown out of the cockpit, and witnesses said there was no way he could have survived. He did, suffering horrific burns and broken back. After time in a Nazi hospital, he was transferred to Stalag Luft III, enduring deprivations there and then the "Death March" in January '45 to Moosburg, Germany to Stalag VII. Eventually liberated in June of '45. He was such a quiet hero, I never heard any of his story until after his death in 1992 (from cancer, secondary to Agent Orange exposure in Vietnam, which the VA denied as connected).
My father was also a pilot. He flew the F4 in the 8th tactical fighter wing (Robin Old’s Wolfpack) in Vietnam. I love watching these videos and others because like you mentioned it gives me an appreciation for what he did. Your father and mine are true hero’s. I hope they are talking planes and flying together wherever they are and we will have new appreciation and knowledge once we join them.
I worked in va hisp. In n.y. 1982. Many cancer victims were exposed to agent orange. Had fought in Viet Nam.
I remember waking up and hearing on radio that "apparently an aircraft has veered off the runway", about 4km from my house. I remembered a Transavia aircraft sitting next to the runway in 1997 so I figured I'd go shower and get dressed, grab my camera and bicycle and cycle over for a few pictures. By the time I got out of the shower, the story had changed to "an aircraft crashed short of the runway". After getting dressed, I turned on the TV and they showed images of the aircraft, and the first victims being carried out, covered with white sheets. All of a sudden I did not feel like heading over to take pictures any more... :/
Nobody cares
@@22ndaccountduetocensorship57 everyone cares but you
@@22ndaccountduetocensorship57 Shut up, it was a nice story
Nobody, not a single soul gives a dam. You don't see it because the millions of people who do not give a dam do not bother to show it off. I like to rub it in
@@22ndaccountduetocensorship57 get a life
I have personally read the official report to understand what happen. But your visualization in the video clearly describe how all these contributing factors come together. What an insight Captain. Keep it coming. Thank you.
Glad you found the video useful.
Sadly Boeing wasn't honest about their flight computer and sensor problems for a very long time and kept postponing taking any responsibility!! Such as for this crash they offered Turkish airlines a massive discount for new planes, in fact Turkish airlines has the cheapest 737-800s and 737-900ERs in the sector which was why they decided to sue Boeing first then changed their mind!! Ofc there was also pilot error that inexperienced first-officer couldn't spot or state malfunctions while the captain was simply overwhelmed as he was doing some of first-officer's job as well but the real problem was Boeing again who didn't properly share these problems with airlines and organized better simulation training that exactly same happened with Max and the company is facing billions of dollars fine now...
@@ggoddkkiller1342 You replied to the wrong comment
I'm very surprised you didn't speak more to CRM and the culture of authority in the cockpit. The authority structure seemed to play a massive role in the sequence of events. Had the other pilots had the ability to call "go around", or if the captain had not taken control of the aircraft from the FO, the stall likely would have been avoided. Also, there seemed to be very little communication between the pilots regarding the various malfunctions and CWA's.
Indeed.
Yes
Exactly, seems the captain and observer should have taken over when the first landing gear alarms went off, indicating the plane had a malfunction. Clearly not a good "training" flight.
He did...
the sound of the altitudes coming all at once is terrifying ... I've been addicted to your investigation videos lately, I'm a FO and your channel was suggested to me by a Captain I flew with! I honestly learned a lot from each one! Keep it up & Fly safe!
Wow, I can't stop being overwhelmed by how much the pilots need to know, they are truly professionals when they evaluate so may inputs in such short time and base their actions on it!
As for this awesome video series, I would love to hear you talk about the British Airways flight 9, the one with the volcanic ash.
Was the memory of the computer and the other hand of the day. Am also fly with computer memory 😉 thanks
Just noticed your comment preceded the video. Anyway, I hope you've seen it.
@@lauraelliott6909 Sure, I did. I am subscribed.
@@lauraelliott6909 normally when a comment looks like it was posted before the video, that means it was posted while the video was unlisted, most likely as a Patreon reward or something similar.
@@tissuepaper9962 I was referring to the linked video. Meaning they asked for the topic to be covered before it was, and I replied that he's already covered it. Then I realized he hadn't covered it yet when they made the request.
I've seen so many accidents where the go-around rules were ignored....
Mh, right. But when you get panic, you wants to go down as soon as possible. They made so many landings they think it will work, also with some troubles.
@@denismatt1752 It´s easy to be stuck in a thought pattern when in panic. Not realy seeing and hearing things around you.
I'm really wondering about the advantages of all of the cockpit automation. Seems like the automation is like an uncommunicative crew member that kind of just does things it's programmed to do. It just turns on a light instead of telling the rest of the crew "Hey, I'm going to do X because of Y".
@@longshot7601 Which is why I suggested TCM: Total cockpit Management. Where the computer(s) are part of the crew and need to be integrated into the communication. I think this will only come into reality after more blood has been shed. Crew management was not a strength in this case: Three pilots flying into the ground!
@@longshot7601 Well, flying has gotten a lot safter compared to when you still ahd a flight engineer and navigator instead of automation.
Neither humans nor machines are perfect and therefore I don't think accidents will ever dissapear completely. However, I think there's also some sampling bias at play in your assesment. When automation catches an error and saves the day, it is very unlikely that anyone ever hears of this. If a pilot does, he might get a movie made about him.
If an accident occurs, it is very likely that some faeture or quirk of some system will be at least a contributing factor, so it appears more dangerous than it is, in my optinion.
Had this crew followed its "programming" (i.e. training) and / or communicated the descrepancies they observed this might have been averted.
I think framing it as an automation vs. pilots issue is not very helpful, especially if one considers how good pilots are at crashing perfectly fine aircraft. It's maybe not the best comparison, but general aviation with very simple aircraft and little to no automation is quite a bit more dangerous than airline flying.
I will never forget this. It was very close to my house 😔
I'm an F35 avionics spec, stumbled apon your channel and have watched almost every video so far just a few more to go, there is incredible value in your production quality and information for civilians and future aviators, please continue this series and continue to improve the visual learning aspect. You're most likely saving lives by making future pilots think differently when an event unfortunately happens. CRM + attention to detail + etc....one of the most earned subs on the tube. Thank you.
I remember the news reports in Turkey, just after the crash. They were announcing the pilots saved hundreds of passengers from an emergency situation and "landed" the aircraft to the nearest crop field and bravely sacrificed themselves. It didn't sound right to me at all. Thanks for making this video.
Why would they lie about that? Turk-supremacy propaganda?
@@TitaniusAnglesmith I believe that was an attempt to protect the government owned "Turkish Airlines" brand and in fact they did succeed.
@@anilkantar_86 Makes sense. Wouldn't be the first time countries covered up air accidents in order to keep investors and shift blame.
When a country's leader fakes a coup in order to lock all political opponents and opposing journalists then lying about an aircraft crash seems really small and not important. it's just a cultural thing. the reputation of a men or a company is more important than the truth
@@danielgreen5803 I couldn't agree more.
From my bedroom window at my parents' place in Haarlem I could always see planes in approach to that runway (or flying out). The highway it lies next to is the road that we'd take to get out of Haarlem and go anywhere except North. It offers great views of aircraft flying very low overhead. Seeing that a plane crashed right there hit me quite hard at the time. (I did not see the actual crash, but I did see the wreckage and of course the news). Thanks for a great video explaining what happened!
It's almost like they want to make it easy to destroy Harlem's transportation options for some reason. I wonder what emergency would justify destroying that critical road?
@@YolandaPlayne why would they destroy that road? It is a much needed and used road in the Amsterdam - Haarlem - Haarlemmermeer (Schiphol airport) region. A likelier option would be to close the airport and build a new one off shore, but I don't see that happening either
Im a retired 727 Pilot. I am Type rated in B727/ DC9/ SD3-60/ EMB110. I have watched many of these aftermath videos. The more you load up the cockpit with switches from all the different systems, The easier confusion can be introduced into the mix when the crew is forced to do something out of their normal flow. One thing I could always fall back on with the original (steam gage) six pack was when something went wrong, In scant seconds I could check these six gages and stabilize the aircraft at the desired attitude, altitude, speed, heading. I didnt have to look at a bunch autopilot choices on the center glare shield console. If the autopilot was unexpectedly disengaged, I immediately took control kept the aircraft stable in the desired attitude. I didnt need to look around grab any switches to make that happen. These new aircraft are fancy indeed, a bit too fancy. Pilots lose instrument scanning skills and become too dependant on the automation. When the shit hits the fan, these crews need to be taught to drown out everything until the aircraft is doing what it is supposed to do. When it is stabilized and both pilots are convinced that it is stabile then go to the QRH. The Idea that one of the pilots should bury his nose in the QRH so deep that he loses situational awareness is ludicrous. The non flying pilot should always keep one eye on the big six. Why? because it can be done in a second by a well trained and lightly talented instrument pilot. Burying your nose in a book when the aircraft speed and configuration is being changed by the flying pilot is really asking for it. How many of your videos have I watched where pilots allowed extreme loss of airspeed. Thats got to be because no one is properly scanning the six. Not the captain, not anyone. I cringe watching these fubar flights with crewmembers easily overloaded and then disregarding or forgetting about the most important gage in the cockpit. If you lose your speed awareness in several flight regimes, the following upset can become so bad that everybody dies. Seems like a pretty important gage to me. I would feel like I was playing incompetent flight crew Russian roulette to get on a transport aircraft today. Especially after watching your videos. The crew might screwup with ineptitude or bad training or the overengineered automation might pitch us into the ground. If they want the aircraft to fly itself then go to full automation and leave the incompetent flight crews on the taxiway. We used to say, if it aint Boeing, I aint going. We were referring to the 727. Most pilots that flew it, loved it. I dont know of any pilots that didnt trust the old Seven Two. Even when the aircraft was old and the companies that were flying them as converted freighters, we still trusted it. Even when the maintenance was shoddy, we still trusted it. How many aircraft today can say that they instill that kind of trust and faith. Things are supposed to get better not worse.
Well said!
The fact that an aircraft with dual (in theory) redundant radioaltimeters can have a failure of just one of those cause the autothrottle to spool the engines down to idle screams bad avionics design.
Agreed. It should alert the discrepancy and then also tell the pilots that it is also disabled the auto throttle. That would be a good reminder to go "oi these instruments are wrong and we're not on auto anymore!"
Except that they failed to turn on both auto-pilots at the same time, so they were using only the malfunctioning side of the altimeter.
@Alfred Weber The auto pilot disengaged after that. They ignored that and engaged again, and also again just one. And as he explained, they should have flown the last part themselves with the auto pilot turned off.
Also, why do they have to select if they want to use the left, right or both auto pilots? Simple: to give them the choice when one fails or has false readings, so they can pick the one that works and engage that one, without it automatically engaging the faulty one again.
Yes, indeed.
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 yep, even my shrimp brain tells me that if I have super loud warning with the altimeter (landing gear warning) and I even talk about that (voice recording), why choose a approach which relies on the altimeter??
Wow....great work Petter.
You really turn it up a notch EVERY episode. Love from Nigeria
We do what we can
This crash happend pretty close to me in my early days of being a aviation geek. Thanks for making this video!
Thank you for watching.
@@MentourPilot your videos are getting better and better, just keep it up!!!
Did you go see the accident sight!?? I went to an accident sight in Charlotte NC airport and walked part of the path the aircraft took after hitting trees and a house parallel to the runway..
Thank you to put a light on this acident . Very interesting .👍
It looks to have crashed near a bridge/ just short of a bridge? From what I saw on flight simulator anyway?
That stable at 1000 feet is so important. And the pilot flying should have his or her hands on the controls and throttles at all times below 1000 ft AGL. The pilot monitoring is even more important during this phase of flight. This crash highlights a true lack of situational awareness in that flight deck. And I agree with previous comments. The Captain taking the controls when he did sealed the fate of that flight.
And at the end the air traffic controler just calmly says: We lost an airplane... Amazed about how calm that sounded
Loving the video quality, solid work on the presentation!
Thank you! We have put a lot of effort into this one
@@MentourPilot It pays off Peter! BTW, what about the new sofa and room you're doing the video's in? Did the wife banish you from the livingroom?
@@MrBasmar69 he used to use a home office shared with his wife but now he has a......office space? i am wondering if this is so both he and his wife can wirk distraction reduced?
really good video. It seemed like a normal flight but the compounding of small errors and malfunctions became critical at the worst time
Indeed
It’s usually like this with crashes.
@ Matthew: Mhhh no I would disagree. The small errors would not have led to a crash if not major errors were made too. Letting the plane for 30 s in "airspeed low" warning at low altitude is a major error; (THREE pilots) do not monitor thrust continuously during a stick shaker at low altitude is a major error. @Mentour Pilot, correct me if I'm wrong.
Just fly the freaking airplane! basic piloting skills, can't you revert to full manual control when auto systems are malfunctioning?
Sadly Boeing wasn't honest about their flight computer and sensor problems for a very long time and kept postponing taking any responsibility!! Such as for this crash they offered Turkish airlines a massive discount for new planes, in fact Turkish airlines has the cheapest 737-800s and 737-900ERs in the sector which was why they decided to sue Boeing first then changed their mind!! Ofc there was also pilot error that inexperienced first-officer couldn't spot or state malfunctions while the captain was simply overwhelmed as he was doing some of first-officer's job as well but the real problem was Boeing again who didn't properly share these problems with airlines and organized better simulation training that exactly same happened with Max and the company is facing billions of dollars fine now...
As a private pilot instrument trained I find these videos on analysis fascinating. The detail is excellent and explanations from an experienced pilot is wonderful. I regularly analyze NTSB reports for my own learning and training so I can avoid certain pitfalls. Keep these analyses coming!! Thanks!
The fact that you are committed to safety to that extent is laudable. You can never learn too much, and being so engaged - reading hundreds if not thousands of pages of technical information is actually "fun" for want of a better word. It shows a deep passion for aviation and an enquiring mind - great comment and fly safe.
I love watching your channel. It is very informative along with being non-judgmental and respectful.
I was a gate agent and one of our regional prop aircraft in N. Carolina went down...the loading crew miscalculated the weight of the luggage. The aircraft tilted to it's left a few feet off the ground and hit a hanger, all on board perished. The despair and sadness brought all of us to a standstill and then having to inform loved ones, there are no words I can find to convey the deep sorrow.
Oh, at Charlotte Douglas. What a terrible crash that was...
I've always been fascinated by the plane crash analyses and the amazing forensic work the investigators do. The quality of your videos is outstanding! The form, the amount detail and information, the interpretation of the data are unmatched. Thank you for the top quality content.
When the situation gets complicated, we humans find it very difficult to find our way out of it. More needs to be done about this topic, more needs to be done to improve the relations between the pilots and the aircraft itself. There were two ex-military pilots that day, with one being a HIGHLY respected pilot. A bloke not known for making mistakes. Just proves that this might happen to any pilot at any given moment. Depressing... I don't like blaming people for their mistakes. I forget to have my coffee from time to time even though it's a part of my daily program, and I don't know how to explain it. There were multiple things happening at once in that cockpit. Those pilots didn't crash the plane but they certainly helped it go down. It's scary to think about really. We can only learn from this. "Written in blood" they say. Such a true statement. Thanks for covering this crash. It was an emotional roller coaster for me. It's hard to think straight when you realize that people you've seen and met before, are no longer alive. Captain Hasan was a nice guy. He was passionate about aviation, he cared about others. It's a shame... Just a shame nothing else.
You made a very important point there. I think we all have the occasional bad day when we 'forget the coffee' or the like. Being self-employed, I just try to avoid risks on days like that. But if, as a pilot, you are scheduled to fly - plus perhaps your co-pilot is not in best form either - and on top of that a technical malfunction - it can result in a dangerous mix.
Sadly Boeing wasn't honest about their flight computer and sensor problems for a very long time and kept postponing taking any responsibility!! Such as for this crash they offered Turkish airlines a massive discount for new planes, in fact Turkish airlines has the cheapest 737-800s and 737-900ERs in the sector which was why they decided to sue Boeing first then changed their mind!! Ofc there was also pilot error that inexperienced first-officer couldn't spot or state malfunctions while the captain was simply overwhelmed as he was doing some of first-officer's job as well but the real problem was Boeing again who didn't properly share these problems with airlines and organized better simulation training that exactly same happened with Max and the company is facing billions of dollars fine now...
@@featherstone5838 Yes.
I remember this incident well, I flew into Schipol shortly afterwards and saw the wreck, utterly shocking.
Schipol had a habit of turning aircraft in tight. What you didn’t mention was that in addition to this, very low transitions can increase workload significantly, and predispose approaches getting high (dependant on the QNH difference). Pilots must be aware of the impact that transition will have on their intercept. Additionally the low transition has the habit of delaying the approach checklist until quite late in proceedings - again increasing workload, at a time when things are getting compressed. The crew should think ahead to how workload will be managed.
It is common for the safety pilot to become involved in other tasks. It can be useful, and being a safety pilot can sometimes feel like a spare part, and so being involved in the crew is welcomed. However, their principle role is to monitor, and tasks detracting from this does reduce capacity on the flight deck, not increase it.
However, one of my biggest bug-bears is the idea of the ‘gate’. Too many times I’ve seen pilots use this as a fixed point in time at which the parameters are met, in order to continue. If you enter a 30km/h zone when driving it doesn’t mean you can be 60km/h before it, 30km/h at the signpost and then back to 60km/h thereafter. It’s a ZONE, which when entered requires parameters to be met and remain. If the parameters are not met in the zone then consideration must be given to a go around. To often, once the gate is passed it’s forgotten.
Excellent synopsis
Thank you, it´s very convincing.
Yes, but you should get down to the cleared altitude without delay, intercepting the glide from below.
@@bassammadanat6698 Disagree. The stability of the aircraft comes first, especially with clearances to or below MSA. A simple rule is 5 to 5, 3 to 3 and 2 to 2 ie a maximum 5,000’ fpm to 5,000’ and so on. But even this seems high to me, but it gives you time to stabilize the aircraft. Worst case, you go around.
Intercepting from above we usually set airfield altitude plus 1,000 and press for VNAV SPD and then use the speed brake to give a sensible descent rate to catch the glide. If you are above there’s no need to shoot for below to catch-it with modern aircraft an intercept from above is Ok provided a sense check is made of the glide path angle. I’ve never know the 777 to catch a false glide slope and doubt a 737 would either. Unless of course ATC require you to be at a low level for some kind of deconfliction, which again is unlikely in the approach zone. We nearly always aim to catch the glide on a constant descent approach, and ARM the loc first to allows the path sanity check.
@@grahamsalmons2027 Thank you Mr. Graham
Your videos are absolute PERFECTION. You are not only unbelievably intelligent and knowledgeable but the way you explain everything is so clear, organized, and engaging that I'm totally addicted! I have to stop otherwise I could just keep watching video after video and not get anything done!? I have a nurse licensing exam to study for and I keep trying to break away but I end up saying "OK, just one more" and then another, and then another. They're just too good. You're just a phenomenal human being. Thank-you for this riveting content!!
Thank you for considering my request to cover this flight. It highlights a number of issues, most importantly that flight crews must follow procedures specifically set out to prevent occurrences like this from happening. They should have gone around and setup for a more stable approach. Great video, I hope everyone who is or who aspires to be a pilot can learn many lessons from this.
More! More! More! These are tremendously important and informative. Training...when it counts the most!
Glad you liked it.
You can help me and the channel by sharing it on social media.
Have a great weekend
ONE THING HOLDING THESE MOVES UP ITS CALLED money out of big pockets.
As "luck" will have it, the disaster response team of Schiphol airport just conducted a training a few hundred yards from the crash site that day. Training suddenly became very realistic.
I absolutely love this format and your concise and in-depth explanations on aircraft flight systems and certain flight crew procedures....this platform is a real winner....Bravo to you Sir !
I love this style. Break down all the incidents, then do it in real-time. I would like to have seen the real-time a third time but with your comments on top of the live events.
It’s definitely interesting hearing the perspective of an airline training captain in these scenarios, especially one type rated on the aircraft involved. I’m also really enjoying the new transitions. One final note, it’s definitely very chilling when you hear radio altimeter call outs overlapping on descent.
I have to admit, your videos are just excellent. So well structured and tailored to all kinds of audiences - be it non-aviatiom people, intermediates, or actual pilots! Thanks a ton for these!! I've learnt so much from your videos.
Very well done video captan, the one thing i ve noticed with your videos is that you explain everything so perfectly and clearly. As with other channels they do not explain crashes just like this very precisely. Looking forward to your future videos.
I love the new intro style, documentary feel. keep it up!
I absolutely loved the intro , the information, the edits, and everything about this video. Absolutely great quality, thanks Mentour, love these vids
I'm so glad i found your channel! I love ariplane videos or crashes explained, near crashes, why, and just the whole thing. I have been kind of obsessed with learning about planes for a good couple months now and i ran out of content on other channels but this video seems super interesting! Maybe my mom would want to watch with me later today.
Really enjoying this series. So much more informative than even the air crash investigation episodes! Thanks for the great content.
I remember when this accident happened here in my country, I was quite surprised that the airplane was designed in such a way that when 1 out of several altimeters has failed the plane would still continue to act upon the values from that single sensor to control critical parameters like a flare. I think that also was a major point in the investigation, and one of the advisories was to do more with the availability of redundant information to cross-check the system.
You can imagine I was even more surprised when a development cycle later this mistake was again present in the MAX type, where also a single sensor failure would result in the wrong behavior of the aircraft systems even when other sensors are still available to detect that.
The plane never behaved wrongly, listen to the explanation before making your statement. The auto throttle did exactly what it was supposed to do because the radio altimeter was faulty. Listen properly to the explanation. Amazing how much people do not listen and becomes emotional and assumes things
@@daodyrakotomalala787 that's exactly what he said. I think you need to read it again.
@@OOpSjm @daody rakotomalala Yes, exactly. The plane did exactly what it was designed to do, but it surprised me that it was designed that way.
Not only because it could do autopilot on the right side and autothrottle on the left side, but also that the autothrottle did not detect an error condition.
The radio altimeter hardware output 0. That is not supposed to happen in real life. The computer subtracted 8 for the height of the altimeter hardware relative to the landing gear, and the result was -8. That was not to be interpreted as "we have landed", it should have been interpreted as "there is a problem, alert pilots and do not perform default action". Especially because correct altitude information was available from other sensors. The design was not to use those, but who designs things that way?
Even more surprising is that after this accident the next generation was designed with a new system that had this same surprising design.
(to use only a single sensor when multiple are available, and not detect discrepancy between sensors)
@@Rob2 beside that significant difference in readings of two altimeters requiring manual marking one or both as untrusted - would raise pilot awareness.
I wonder if there are any cross-sensor checks used to enrich data with reliability info.
@@Rob2 This is pretty similar to the 737-MAX fiasco. When you measure something, two is one and one is none. The plane has two radio altimeters but instead of comparing their outputs internally (to make it at least one confirmed altitude measurement capable of error detection) the plane relied upon the single measurement only (and trusted it completely without any way of verification).
Similarly, the 737-MAX has two AOA sensors, but treats them the same way, not allowing for error detection and putting complete trust into the single measurement.
This was combined with the lack of any sanity check of the results whatsoever. The accident plane did not ask itself how can altitude be -8 feet. 737-MAX did not ask itself how can AOA be this high with not overly excessive pitch and reasonable IAS.
Basically, the system design is obsolete nowadays and would not pass certification even when implemented in a car. Imagine that a single failure of a wheel sensor would lead to erroneous activation of ESP and kick you off the road. That doesn't happen because there are multiple sensors and their results are constantly scrutinized and disregarded when found in error.
The new graphics for your logo and intro looks awesome ...
Glad you liked it
Lots of free time at home to work on RUclips improvements due to Covid?
That was an extremely comprehensive incident review! Only YOU could speak so authoritatively and appropriately in dissecting an aviation incident! Not just because you are a training captain, but because you are an excellent communicator as well. Another fantastic analysis Captain!
I am not a pilot or even a student but your videos will be an immense help to many pilots.
Good video, Mentour. I'm familiar with the investigation & report, but it's particularly interesting to have a senior pilot's take on it, and the animated reconstruction was excellent in explaining the case, too. Good one!
Thank you for your kind feedback, glad you found it interesting.
Amazing work Mentour.
Thank you! Glad you liked it.
You can really hell the channel by sharing it on social media.
@@MentourPilot "hell the channel"?
@@rabbit251 pretty sure that’s a typo and he meant « help the channel »
@@MentourPilot Ofcourse Mentour. I'm already doing it for a long time. I'm not one of your official patrons but I'm your patron at heart. :)
Thank you a lot for this air crash series, I really love watching it. Keep up the great work and all the best!!
The format of these videos is amazing! The simulation paired with the narration is fantastic. I can't wait to see more of these videos!
I remember once seeing a TV docu on the causes of air crashes. One factor sometimes present was poor communication in the cockpit due to a (at least perceived) hierarchical relationship between the crew members.
It feels like you're doing some new things in the production of this video, and it's great! The zoomed-in framing of you works really well, I think. Even nicer when you slowly pan out. Great stuff. The content is awesome as always!
I saw this crash happening while driving to work :( Still shiver with the thought.... and the blessing it didnt land on the highway which would have been a likely other outcome.
Production quality of all your videos is so high that even well funded TV shows are nowhere near this!
I naturally knew details of some of the accidents you told us about in your videos, yet I've watched the whole video anyway as you bring so much valuable information that each second is worth watching!
Thank you!
Keep em coming!
We will try!
I finally stumbled upon a European man who really pronounces Turkish names well enough. Btw, I love the detail of your tshirt. It is good that you show us how you roll. 🤣
Thank you! I wasn’t sure I did
@@MentourPilot Nobody is perfect but you are good. Cheers. Nice video btw.
As well as the correct pronounciation of Dutch location names
I've just return from holidays and have 2 "go arounds" on Seychelles airport at landing. The weather was typical for that airport (windy as usual), but the Captain said that it was below the minimum. After refueling in Mombasa we continue to land - and it was successfully completed. Better to have more careful pilot than to have brave one...My country - Poland - has "not lucky" history of brave landings... Regards and thanks for this wonderful material.
This is a SUPERB video, you've spent a lot of effort on this and it is really broadcast quality. Absolutely amazing, thanks for your time.
Wonderful work, great animation. Even the livery is from that era of Turkish Airlines. Thank you for giving this amount of detail and explaning report with cristal clarity to aviation newbies like me. Thank you!
I am sorry for the souls that lost.
Thank you for watching.
Finally I understand, why the "cabin crew prepare for landing" and "cabin crew seats for landing" is called out sometimes more early than passengers understand ("why already?") and why it is called out sometimes quite at different moments. Good pilots focus on the really important things and not on this, the time when to announce "cabine crew...", that's not as important as monitoring everything for stabilizing the metal-bird.
Unfortunately, these guys did everything too late
Sadly Boeing wasn't honest about their flight computer and sensor problems for a very long time and kept postponing taking any responsibility!! Such as for this crash they offered Turkish airlines a massive discount for new planes, in fact Turkish airlines has the cheapest 737-800s and 737-900ERs in the sector which was why they decided to sue Boeing first then changed their mind!! Ofc there was also pilot error that inexperienced first-officer couldn't spot or state malfunctions while the captain was simply overwhelmed as he was doing some of first-officer's job as well but the real problem was Boeing again who didn't properly share these problems with airlines and organized better simulation training that exactly same happened with Max and the company is facing billions of dollars fine now...
CC know when to seat, this call is just to remind them.. bieleve me.. after hours spent in the air.. you know exactly where you are.. ;)
Yes.
@@elFlexor Yes.
I like this format with the ATC recording. CVR would be nicer but not always a option. This put the knowledge learned into the event. Well done!
Great job on the video, thanks for taking time to explain what happened!
I didn't realise there was 2 separate autopilot systems working independently and displaying that way to the separate displays, always learn something watching your videos, many thanks.
Suggestion: I think that to include some of the methods that a pilot uses to reduce risk and manage crews etc would close a loop. If you were to explain how a pilot is trained and what tools he uses to successfully evaluate a situation would be of interest to many pilots and non pilots alike.
Motivation of Suggestion: Textbooks and Accident Reports of incidents cover the technical aspects of the events and whilst often thorough and technically competent they can become sterile. This sterility seems to create a gap a void. Other sources of information News Media and RUclips channels do not recognise the true nature of the void and thus try to fill it with emotion and sensationalism. I like and highly value your conclusion section as this provides a much needed informed personal interpretation of context and reaffirms the importance.
The faulty notion in all of this is the CRM (a concept purloined from the military) paradigm. For example, a marine vessel is rarely piloted by the captain. He has a skilled crew with divided tasks that are performed complementary and in unison. But on an airliner you have two mere mortals trying to do everything imaginable to keep up with every emerging situation and be both able to replicate each other's actions. That simply is bullshit. Can you imagine a 50,000 ton ship entering a port and landing at a peer without human intervention until its time to deploy the lines? Give me a break, airliners will continue to crash with atrocious loss of life.
@@pibbles-a-plenty1105 It seems that you are suggesting that Risk Evaluation is not applicable to Pilots or have I missed your point?
I really love your videos, they’re very factual and don’t dramatise everything too much
This episode is really good, like Air Crash Investigation on the National Geographics, but only from technical aspects of the accident and pilots view of the situation. Looking forward to the next episode. ATC with animation is another big plus.
37:40 Hearing that stick shaker while watching this part made me want to reach over my desk to my thrustmaster and push them forward (and hold it).
Terrifying. But important lesson. Watch that speed like a hawk. ( *particularly* on approach )
Thanks Mentour Pilot for the excellent video and explanation !
That's it. As you said: "and hold it!", yes, everyone would do so, you are at low altitude and in a stick shaker, your life is dependent on this thrust lever being forward, so why all THREE pilots let it go to idle again and notice it only 9 seconds later? Leave them out of hand even half a second is too long in such a circumstance.
@@Delibro I wonder if they have changed the way they switch over controls. Seems risky for the captain to have taken controls so close to the ground with so little time to make any changes
The complexity of these aircraft amaze me. So much to know , so that’s why , training, training ,training, and rules to go by. Technology is our friend , till its not.
I like these air crash investigation videos but never clicked on a Mentour Pilot video because I didn't think that it would be any different to the others I've seen. I changed my mind when my manager shared the video on the Glimi Glider as a process safety lessons learnt session did I realise what I was missing. Now I can't get enough!! Thanks Petter!!!
Everything looks so clear at the beginnig but its actually so complex behing the scene, so good explanation of all these complex issue, we didnt know how this happened thanks for that and thats really good job!
As always, excellent story telling. The added refinement in the production was also very good. Thank you, sir.
Thank you for an excellent video, great level of detail!
Glad you liked it.
All these accident post mortems are absolutely fascinating - thanks for your balanced and professional analysis!
Really like these videos. They are described in a factual manner and I like the description of how the lessons learned are covered and how those lessons feed into making improvements for the future
Great work Mentour this video was very interesting and the production was impeccable. I think you are doing a good job at stating the facts and explaining them while not overdramatize the situation like other shows do and remaining respectful to the victims and their families
I am planning to start my education and training some time in 2023. I have been subscribed for about 2 years to Mentour. Your content is awesome and a good reference point for me. Thank you
Excellent graphics & technical explanation, without all the repetition & 'padding' that TV shows like 'Seconds To Disaster' contain!