It is an excellent technique for close range self Defence GM Nardizzi, because its fast and it has the element of surprise after an outside block or dodge. Really great technique as you perform it!!
Hi Master Nardizzi, I replied to Deepak Alexander's comment and gave my breakdown of the logic behind the execution of the upset punch. Could you take the time to examine the logic behind my explanation and tell me what you think of it? I'd really appreciate it. My explanation follows: " I think the upset punch is, in actual fact , not very different from a regular shovel hook or hook to the body in boxing. I'll explain in two parts. First, i'll explain the hand opposite to the punching hand that seems to reach out (as part of a punch wind up and then is brought to the hip. If you're punching with the left hand, i'm referring to the right hand which is reaching out and vice versa). First, TaeKwon-Do hand techniques come from Shotokan Karate and all Shotokan Karate (all Karate hand techniques are meant to be executed at close range, clinch range, grappling range). That's the reason that many of them have one hand, the hikite (hikite is Japanese for 'pulling hand'), brought to the hip. That is meant to simulate a hand that has gotten hold of something, be it hair, clothing, the enemy's face or their guarding/attacking hand and is pulling it down and out of the way. Think about the punching that occurs in a street fight or in a hockey match, where players will grab hold of an opposing player's jersey whilst punching him. So the hikite has two purposes. One purpose is to simulating a grab. It's saying to the Karate/TKD student that when you doing hikite that means you're to grab and interfere with the enemy's balance or guard in some way. You could parry/block and incoming shot before you do so. You could punch the guy or elbow him or push him before you do so, whatever. What you do before punching is not important. What is important is that you're doing SOMETHING before you execute that body shot and THEN you're grabbing the guy and breaking his balance somehow slightly BEFORE or AS you're executing that body shot. That's the reason you pull the hand to the hip. So far, so good. All that seems perfectly reasonable and it means the upset punch is meant to be executed AS PRACTISED as a part of a FLURRY of attacks. It's not meant to be done THAT WAY by itself. So, in other words if you're not going to do all that , grab, etc, just do a REGULAR shovel hook. The hikite is conditional. The OTHER purpose of the hikite is as a sensing device. It is a form of proprioception. It allows you to sense you're opponents movement, through your sense of touch. It allows you to set up your shot (www.sports-health.com/sports-injuries/general-injuries/proprioception-making-sense-body-position). Wing Chun does sticky hands for exactly the same reason. Proprioception allows you to read your opponent through your sense of touch. It allows you to target various areas of their body (head, liver, etc) because you know where those areas are in relation to whatever it is you are touching. So simply put, hikite allows is a guard allowing to deflect oncoming shots or add a shot of your own, before, allowing to break your opponents guard/posture in some way by pulling on some part of them HARD. It's basically street fighting. So that's one part of upset punch explained. Now, what about that weird giant circle that the punching hand does? I think, in the same way that the hikite is simulating something (the action) in close range fighting, that giant circle does too. I think it's meant to simulate either that you've knocked/pushed a guarding/puching hand aside prior to punching or that you're wrapping that arm/ punching hand prior to delivering your OWN body shot, a shovel hook. Basically that techniques is referring to street fighting.; body shots done at close range. All the wind up/ circular movement / hikite is conditional. It should be understood that if you don't have to do any of that, then, YOU DON"T DO IT. In that case, the case where you don't have to grapple at all, because you have a clear liver shot. In THAT CASE, you forget the hikite, giant circle, etc. The ONLY REASON you do any of those things is because they serve a clear, PRACTICAL purpose, namely getting space and opportunity to do your liver shot because you've pulled your opponent of balance and opened a space in which you can hit. That's all that's going on, imo. The circular movement, etc, is NOT meant to be done for power generation AT ALL. See the videos below for reference 1) The TRUE purpose of hikite iainabernethy.co.uk/content/hikitenot-power-generation 2)www.karateobsession.com/2014/12/the-magic-of-hikite.html 3) Example of the circular movement in a twin upset punch being used to push guarding hands aside. ruclips.net/video/Gp6NAnFPF7s/видео.html Please, tell me what you think of the logic behind my analysis. "
It is actually very powerful and effective. So I don't know how you can refer to it as stupid. Stupid as in what way? Is it because it is strange to you?
@@Dac-911 Ok. Now I understand your comment. Every technique is telegraphed to some degree. Every technique can be adapted to telegraph less. Usually this means cutting the wind up short. In Taekwon-Do we practice the techniques with maximum power. Then, in a real situation we adapt the technique to be quicker (perhaps with the slightly less power) depending if the situation requires it. Also, remember that Taekwon-Do is a martial art and aesthetics as well as scientific application of the theory of power are practised and mastered. Some self-defence systems are not concerned with mastering technique but mainly focus on what is practical and easy to learn. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that that. Just pointing out a key difference in Martial arts and self-defence systems.
Donato Nardizzi I am a black belt in karate, but my background is boxing. In that usually the elbow doesn’t go past behind the ribs. I mean the punch is generated from the legs hips and the hand usually moves from a fixed position right into the target
It is an excellent technique for close range self Defence GM Nardizzi, because its fast and it has the element of surprise after an outside block or dodge. Really great technique as you perform it!!
Hi Master Nardizzi, I replied to Deepak Alexander's comment and gave my breakdown of the logic behind the execution of the upset punch. Could you take the time to examine the logic behind my explanation and tell me what you think of it?
I'd really appreciate it.
My explanation follows:
" I think the upset punch is, in actual fact , not very different from a regular shovel hook or hook to the body in boxing. I'll explain in two parts. First, i'll explain the hand opposite to the punching hand that seems to reach out (as part of a punch wind up and then is brought to the hip. If you're punching with the left hand, i'm referring to the right hand which is reaching out and vice versa).
First, TaeKwon-Do hand techniques come from Shotokan Karate and all Shotokan Karate (all Karate hand techniques are meant to be executed at close range, clinch range, grappling range). That's the reason that many of them have one hand, the hikite (hikite is Japanese for 'pulling hand'), brought to the hip. That is meant to simulate a hand that has gotten hold of something, be it hair, clothing, the enemy's face or their guarding/attacking hand and is pulling it down and out of the way.
Think about the punching that occurs in a street fight or in a hockey match, where players will grab hold of an opposing player's jersey whilst punching him.
So the hikite has two purposes. One purpose is to simulating a grab. It's saying to the Karate/TKD student that when you doing hikite that means you're to grab and interfere with the enemy's balance or guard in some way.
You could parry/block and incoming shot before you do so. You could punch the guy or elbow him or push him before you do so, whatever. What you do before punching is not important. What is important is that you're doing SOMETHING before you execute that body shot and THEN you're grabbing the guy and breaking his balance somehow slightly BEFORE or AS you're executing that body shot. That's the reason you pull the hand to the hip.
So far, so good. All that seems perfectly reasonable and it means the upset punch is meant to be executed AS PRACTISED as a part of a FLURRY of attacks. It's not meant to be done THAT WAY by itself. So, in other words if you're not going to do all that , grab, etc, just do a REGULAR shovel hook. The hikite is conditional.
The OTHER purpose of the hikite is as a sensing device. It is a form of proprioception. It allows you to sense you're opponents movement, through your sense of touch. It allows you to set up your shot (www.sports-health.com/sports-injuries/general-injuries/proprioception-making-sense-body-position). Wing Chun does sticky hands for exactly the same reason. Proprioception allows you to read your opponent through your sense of touch. It allows you to target various areas of their body (head, liver, etc) because you know where those areas are in relation to whatever it is you are touching.
So simply put, hikite allows is a guard allowing to deflect oncoming shots or add a shot of your own, before, allowing to break your opponents guard/posture in some way by pulling on some part of them HARD. It's basically street fighting.
So that's one part of upset punch explained.
Now, what about that weird giant circle that the punching hand does?
I think, in the same way that the hikite is simulating something (the action) in close range fighting, that giant circle does too.
I think it's meant to simulate either that you've knocked/pushed a guarding/puching hand aside prior to punching or that you're wrapping that arm/ punching hand prior to delivering your OWN body shot, a shovel hook.
Basically that techniques is referring to street fighting.; body shots done at close range.
All the wind up/ circular movement / hikite is conditional. It should be understood that if you don't have to do any of that, then, YOU DON"T DO IT. In that case, the case where you don't have to grapple at all, because you have a clear liver shot. In THAT CASE, you forget the hikite, giant circle, etc. The ONLY REASON you do any of those things is because they serve a clear, PRACTICAL purpose, namely getting space and opportunity to do your liver shot because you've pulled your opponent of balance and opened a space in which you can hit. That's all that's going on, imo. The circular movement, etc, is NOT meant to be done for power generation AT ALL.
See the videos below for reference
1) The TRUE purpose of hikite
iainabernethy.co.uk/content/hikitenot-power-generation
2)www.karateobsession.com/2014/12/the-magic-of-hikite.html
3) Example of the circular movement in a twin upset punch being used to push guarding hands aside.
ruclips.net/video/Gp6NAnFPF7s/видео.html
Please, tell me what you think of the logic behind my analysis.
"
Very helpful Thank you
What height should the upset punch hit? Is it low (umbilicus?) or middle (solar-plexus?)
What's the reason for the circular movement in the punch? Does it involve trapping?
Dude, stupidest way I ever saw to punch
It is actually very powerful and effective. So I don't know how you can refer to it as stupid. Stupid as in what way? Is it because it is strange to you?
Donato Nardizzi
Stupid as in its telegraphs the punch too much.
@@Dac-911 Ok. Now I understand your comment. Every technique is telegraphed to some degree. Every technique can be adapted to telegraph less. Usually this means cutting the wind up short. In Taekwon-Do we practice the techniques with maximum power. Then, in a real situation we adapt the technique to be quicker (perhaps with the slightly less power) depending if the situation requires it. Also, remember that Taekwon-Do is a martial art and aesthetics as well as scientific application of the theory of power are practised and mastered. Some self-defence systems are not concerned with mastering technique but mainly focus on what is practical and easy to learn. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that that. Just pointing out a key difference in Martial arts and self-defence systems.
Donato Nardizzi
I am a black belt in karate, but my background is boxing. In that usually the elbow doesn’t go past behind the ribs. I mean the punch is generated from the legs hips and the hand usually moves from a fixed position right into the target
@@Dac-911 Is there a Karate equivalent for that upset punch movement? If so, what is it called?