WHY DIDN'T I REINFORCE THE SUBFRAME?? Quick note about the Subframe Cracking issue: A few of you have pointed out that it looks like the spot welds are separating in the video. Before I re-installed the subframe I cleaned and sanded the area for a close inspection and there was not separation or cracking anywhere to be found. So this is time for an experiment. From what I have read/experienced the cracking issue is due to the deflection in the stock bushings, which allow the subframe to 'rock' and torque on the mounting points. Going to solid bushings prevents any movement and should eliminate the possibility of any cracking. This shell only cost me 2k remember, so I don't mind experimenting with it. In a couple Years I will go in again and look closely for cracks, then re-enforce if necessary. Consider this a long term test...
"eliminate" i don't think so. Although i agree with your theory that bad bushings is ONE of the cause. 2, diff bolts to one side, hugh amount of stress on one/two bushings. 3, the steel used in E46 is all over a very stiff chassis, which means it doesn't allow to flex all that much, which causes it to crack instead. The subframe mounts in the E46 is poorly designed and made by Bmw. I think more research and more solid construction should have been made during the making of the E46. PS i have an E46 preface 320i, i'm about to swap it to a 328i engine:D I have done a subframe repair and reinforcement on it, along with poly bushings. Love ur vids btw!
Yeah, i have read that the mounts should have been longer out, under the "chassis legs" instead of inside the floor. I will reinforce more in the summer, inside the trunk. But i don't know if i will tie all mounts together, and then to the towers, like an X-brace, it's currently my daily, so i need some room in the back
Love this series, and I’m so elated with how your channel is growing! E46 love!! Cheers, my Dude! Here’s hoping your videos get the recognition they deserve!
I have a love hate/hate relationship with your E46 vids. I love the content. I hate that I still have to do everything you've done as I've just bought my car 😂
All of the rust spots on the passenger side front mount are cracked spot welds. The panel was failing already, but it was recoverable. The solid bushing theory doesn't add up, you're just going to shock load the mounting points and make it worse faster. And yes, I know this is old.
if you also used solid/PU bushings on the inner side of the control arms, you can neglect this, but otherwise it's recommended to torque these bolts with the wheels on the floor, as they rotate if the car/springs is/are unsprung/compressed.
I saw a couple of evidences of subframe tear, not bad but the sheet metal is definetly separating and spot welds are breaking, thats where the rust is appearing around the mounts and a little bit in the fold of the metal, I would have got it reinforced because with the solid bushes it is not going to last long, I have experience with an e46 330ci with powerflex subframe bushes whose owner didnt want to reinforce the subframe when we removed it and it ended up tearing completly and the car was beyond repair.
Also, from what I have experienced and read, going to solid bushings eliminates the problem with tearing its the deflection and torquing from the motion the stock bushings allow that can tear the subframe
Check out Redish videos.ruclips.net/user/RedishMotorsport They are really detailed on how to identify and repair subframe issues in the E46. Aggressive sanding and wire wheel distorts the metal surface and fills in cracks, Spot welds don't rust without some separation.
I'd sign that - their videos about the subframe issues are excelent. Also I can tell you, as someone who is working for over 16 years at BMW Garages, that at least some of the spotwelds around the front right mounting point near the gastank have cracked. As beech house garage mentioned - cleaning these with a wire wheel or something similar will hide the cracks. Just use some proper chemicals to remove the dirt and grime and take a good look. You should also check the areas where the trunk floor is spotwelded with the inner wheel arches. These spotwelds also tend to crack. Best evidence is solid looking paint and only the spotweld point itself rusted - these spotwelds have cracked. At least you should drill them out and reweld them using a MIG welder.
Hey just a tip if you do e46 bushings again. The way I got them out was I used a big hole saw to cut the through the rubber and get the middle of each bushing out. Then I sawed through the outer metal casing a bit and hammered it so it caved in on itself. Might be easier, might not but options are always good lol
I did. Sanded the paint away and cleaned it up before the subframe went back up. (Should have put that in the video cause I think a lot of people are going to point that out)
Throttle House Check out the Mason Engineering Subframe Brace. Or If you're having a cage built. Have em reinforce that area while they're there. Also check out S2R Tuning's E46 Sunroof delete panel. Bolt in. Carbon Fiber or Fiberglass. Keep up the good work. Wish I could have sold you my old E46. Vids of it are on my RUclips.
I’ll check it out. And yes I’m looking into the sunroof delete. It just seems a bit expensive for what it is. I might just rivet a piece of sheet metal over the opening lol.
I was thinking about doing that on my 330ci as well, it just seems so ghetto haha. I am probably going to DIY the fiberglass fill panel like BigBill did on his specE46: forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1061491&page=3 . I just asked him for a few more details on how he made it. I also just ordered condor Diff bushings and motor mounts!
Im pretty sure that in the non M3 e46ses only the rear subframe mounting points crack, not the 2 front ones. Atleast 95/100 of the cracks are in the driver side rear mount. M3´s rip all 4
I can't imagine any E46 is going to stand up to extended track use and not tear the rear mounts without reinforcement sooner or later. I'd keep a very close eye on them because its a matter of when, not if, you will need to do repair/reinforcement work. Prevention is better than cure in this case. Many E46s have had the entire rear panel rip out and write the car off. Regular track will accelerate the process significantly.
hey, i just did my rear end bushings on my e46 m3, and i notice a slight clunking when i shift gears with the condor bushings; are you experiencing this? is it due to the stiffness?
how did you clean it? if it was with a flap wheel the crack can get super hard to see. look up Redish Motorsport here on RUclips, they have the best videos of subframe crack repairs on E46 M3, and detailed videos on have to spot the cracks and popped spot welds. its worth a look :) ofc the car is fine for what you using it for.
Really good stuff, I would love to see some more information about the 325 to 330 swap you did back when you blew your 325. Your video made it seem like the only thing you needed to change was the DME programming..?
I would think that taking a high mileage vehicle, not reinforcing the mounts and adding much harder bushings is a recipe for disaster. Especially with a manual and using it on the track. They make epoxy patch panels to reinforce the mounts on vehicles that haven't cracked yet. If anyone else has dropped their sub frame, they may want to look into that.
Here’s the thing. Based on my reading, I’m fairly positive the tearing issue is from the slack in the stock bushings. So going to solid bushings should prevent any cracks. That’s what I’m going find out for us.
Hey Thomas. I think drifting for you is a very bad idea. You might like it more than time attack and there’s a chance it could consume your life Just my two cents, Cheers
WHY DIDN'T I REINFORCE THE SUBFRAME?? Quick note about the Subframe Cracking issue: A few of you have pointed out that it looks like the spot welds are separating in the video. Before I re-installed the subframe I cleaned and sanded the area for a close inspection and there was not separation or cracking anywhere to be found. So this is time for an experiment. From what I have read/experienced the cracking issue is due to the deflection in the stock bushings, which allow the subframe to 'rock' and torque on the mounting points. Going to solid bushings prevents any movement and should eliminate the possibility of any cracking. This shell only cost me 2k remember, so I don't mind experimenting with it. In a couple Years I will go in again and look closely for cracks, then re-enforce if necessary. Consider this a long term test...
"eliminate" i don't think so. Although i agree with your theory that bad bushings is ONE of the cause. 2, diff bolts to one side, hugh amount of stress on one/two bushings. 3, the steel used in E46 is all over a very stiff chassis, which means it doesn't allow to flex all that much, which causes it to crack instead. The subframe mounts in the E46 is poorly designed and made by Bmw. I think more research and more solid construction should have been made during the making of the E46.
PS i have an E46 preface 320i, i'm about to swap it to a 328i engine:D
I have done a subframe repair and reinforcement on it, along with poly bushings.
Love ur vids btw!
Sorry for bad english. Diff has mounting point to one side of the subframe in the rear, and it puts alot of stress on 1/2 mounting points:P
I 100% agree that that area was poorly engineered. Massive fail on the designers part. I am very curious to see how mine holds up.
Yeah, i have read that the mounts should have been longer out, under the "chassis legs" instead of inside the floor. I will reinforce more in the summer, inside the trunk. But i don't know if i will tie all mounts together, and then to the towers, like an X-brace, it's currently my daily, so i need some room in the back
So, how did it hold up?
Love this series, and I’m so elated with how your channel is growing! E46 love!! Cheers, my Dude! Here’s hoping your videos get the recognition they deserve!
I have a love hate/hate relationship with your E46 vids.
I love the content.
I hate that I still have to do everything you've done as I've just bought my car 😂
All of the rust spots on the passenger side front mount are cracked spot welds. The panel was failing already, but it was recoverable. The solid bushing theory doesn't add up, you're just going to shock load the mounting points and make it worse faster.
And yes, I know this is old.
if you also used solid/PU bushings on the inner side of the control arms, you can neglect this, but otherwise it's recommended to torque these bolts with the wheels on the floor, as they rotate if the car/springs is/are unsprung/compressed.
Hey, how’s it holding up now? I bought my E46 today in Ontario as well and would like to know haha
I saw a couple of evidences of subframe tear, not bad but the sheet metal is definetly separating and spot welds are breaking, thats where the rust is appearing around the mounts and a little bit in the fold of the metal, I would have got it reinforced because with the solid bushes it is not going to last long, I have experience with an e46 330ci with powerflex subframe bushes whose owner didnt want to reinforce the subframe when we removed it and it ended up tearing completly and the car was beyond repair.
I thought I saw that as well. But when I cleaned the area up i couldn’t see anything
Also, from what I have experienced and read, going to solid bushings eliminates the problem with tearing its the deflection and torquing from the motion the stock bushings allow that can tear the subframe
Check out Redish videos.ruclips.net/user/RedishMotorsport They are really detailed on how to identify and repair subframe issues in the E46. Aggressive sanding and wire wheel distorts the metal surface and fills in cracks, Spot welds don't rust without some separation.
I'd sign that - their videos about the subframe issues are excelent. Also I can tell you, as someone who is working for over 16 years at BMW Garages, that at least some of the spotwelds around the front right mounting point near the gastank have cracked. As beech house garage mentioned - cleaning these with a wire wheel or something similar will hide the cracks. Just use some proper chemicals to remove the dirt and grime and take a good look.
You should also check the areas where the trunk floor is spotwelded with the inner wheel arches. These spotwelds also tend to crack.
Best evidence is solid looking paint and only the spotweld point itself rusted - these spotwelds have cracked. At least you should drill them out and reweld them using a MIG welder.
Hey just a tip if you do e46 bushings again. The way I got them out was I used a big hole saw to cut the through the rubber and get the middle of each bushing out. Then I sawed through the outer metal casing a bit and hammered it so it caved in on itself. Might be easier, might not but options are always good lol
That’s sort of what I did for some of them. I didn’t have a hole saw so I used the ball joint press. Then the sawzall helped the bushing collapse.
Take the paint off the subframe floor. Small cracks can show up under the paint that can't be seen with the paint in place.
I did. Sanded the paint away and cleaned it up before the subframe went back up. (Should have put that in the video cause I think a lot of people are going to point that out)
Throttle House Check out the Mason Engineering Subframe Brace. Or If you're having a cage built. Have em reinforce that area while they're there. Also check out S2R Tuning's E46 Sunroof delete panel. Bolt in. Carbon Fiber or Fiberglass. Keep up the good work. Wish I could have sold you my old E46. Vids of it are on my RUclips.
I’ll check it out. And yes I’m looking into the sunroof delete. It just seems a bit expensive for what it is. I might just rivet a piece of sheet metal over the opening lol.
I was thinking about doing that on my 330ci as well, it just seems so ghetto haha. I am probably going to DIY the fiberglass fill panel like BigBill did on his specE46: forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1061491&page=3 . I just asked him for a few more details on how he made it. I also just ordered condor Diff bushings and motor mounts!
If you happen to find out more details on how to make it, let me know! I’d love to try that
Looking forward to watching this one!
Im pretty sure that in the non M3 e46ses only the rear subframe mounting points crack, not the 2 front ones. Atleast 95/100 of the cracks are in the driver side rear mount. M3´s rip all 4
Awesome Video, I'd like to know your impressions on the bushings. Also, you made that subframe pull look as easy as an oil change on video lol
I can't imagine any E46 is going to stand up to extended track use and not tear the rear mounts without reinforcement sooner or later.
I'd keep a very close eye on them because its a matter of when, not if, you will need to do repair/reinforcement work. Prevention is better than cure in this case. Many E46s have had the entire rear panel rip out and write the car off. Regular track will accelerate the process significantly.
That vid kicks ass-I'm doing aluminum bushes
hey, i just did my rear end bushings on my e46 m3, and i notice a slight clunking when i shift gears with the condor bushings; are you experiencing this? is it due to the stiffness?
Nice video but a question pops up, why do so few of the BMW DIY guys on youtube have tables to put stuff on while working on it?
Oh please make sure that you double check your condor bushings. Heard that sometimes they aren't cut straight.
All of mine were completely perfect.
Nice video. Thanks for the experiment! Nice build.
the rust line in the bent of the metal at 4:48 is a crack. sport welds probably popped since they are rusty around the mounts
I noticed that part as well, and when I cleaned it up there was no visible crack.
how did you clean it? if it was with a flap wheel the crack can get super hard to see. look up Redish Motorsport here on RUclips, they have the best videos of subframe crack repairs on E46 M3, and detailed videos on have to spot the cracks and popped spot welds. its worth a look :)
ofc the car is fine for what you using it for.
Really good stuff, I would love to see some more information about the 325 to 330 swap you did back when you blew your 325. Your video made it seem like the only thing you needed to change was the DME programming..?
I would think that taking a high mileage vehicle, not reinforcing the mounts and adding much harder bushings is a recipe for disaster. Especially with a manual and using it on the track. They make epoxy patch panels to reinforce the mounts on vehicles that haven't cracked yet. If anyone else has dropped their sub frame, they may want to look into that.
Ahhhh I feel a Tshirt on the way 👍😂😂. Another great job TH !
Sadly the contest is over. But more contests will be coming up soon!
How are the condor bushings, I bought them for my e46 coupe but am yet to install them. Is the nvh bad at all?
I would have expected this for the Hyde drift car, but not on the Jekyll build. Please reinforce the subframe mounts and do it right.
Here’s the thing. Based on my reading, I’m fairly positive the tearing issue is from the slack in the stock bushings. So going to solid bushings should prevent any cracks. That’s what I’m going find out for us.
Hey Thomas. I think drifting for you is a very bad idea. You might like it more than time attack and there’s a chance it could consume your life
Just my two cents,
Cheers
T shirttt. Cant wait to see this
Why didn't you paint the whole thing..? Sway bars etc..
How’s the subframe mounts holding up??
So how did it hold up?
And a good throw down to Kevin !
Except he won't be in my class thanks to his incessant modding. Can still try to chase his times and see what happens.
MORE MODDING KEVIN. COME UP TO GT2 KEVIN
I'll just beat you from GT3. All the pressure on you my GT2 friend.
Update?
Good vid
3:30 - more of this. Less faffing about with the modern crap.
This RUclips notification sucks. Im a day late w the vid.
Shirt time
4:48, center frame, that's a massive crack in your carrier panel. There's no way you missed that.
Goodluck,nice chanel
Sadly the contest is over. But more contests will be coming up soon!
NOT BIG ENOUGH!! HURRR
You dont heat the bushing cups to boil the rubber🤦🏽♂️you heat it because it expands the metal loosening its grip on the bushings
Slappy junk
~Le Cringe~
Update?