How Do Europeans Back These Up? - Scania double Trailer Tips
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
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I've been driving these type of trucks/trailers for 15 years. It can still be hard sometimes. It's even more fun when you have impatient cars trying to squeeze past you when you need a lot of room and have tons of blind spots.
I, as a car bike only driver, had the oportunity to try to reverse drive such a truck a few years ago. It took me 3 hours to not panic just going straight.
After that experiance i always stop, leave the car and have a smoke when a truck in front of me has to do a reverse manouver.
It is always a pleasure to recieve the thankful looks from the truck driver😊
Was in Lidköping a couple weeks back to deliver wares to Willys. I need to do a 90 degree reverse to the left from the street to make it through the gate. I have my work lights on and hazards, but as soon as I start swinging the front to straighten out everything, a car squeezes through between my front right corner and the side walk. I slam on my brakes and honk at him. I start reversing again and 5 seconds later, 2 girls on bicycles ride behind my trailer. Again, I slam on the brakes and honk at them. People have no idea how to behave around big vehicles with big blind spots. Especially when they're reversing. I don't care how much of a hurry you're in, my truck doesn't discriminate. If you get too close and I can't see you, you will die.
Some others have bad hair day us truck drivers has sometimes bad reversing day...😅
@@tntfreddan3138 *"as soon as I start swinging the front to straighten out everything, a car squeezes through between my front right corner and the side walk
You're allowed to honk at them, but you can also annoy other drivers and cyclist waiting. It's still understandable that people get impatient over time, you can't really expect every single driver to be very patient. I respect truck drivers, but if I waited long, I would reverse and do a U-turn and find another road.
*"I don't care how much of a hurry you're in, my truck doesn't discriminate"*
While yes any reversing truck doesn't discriminate. If there an ambulance with lights and sirens that urgently pick up a patient before he dies, would you still not care it the patient dies?
😂😂😂I always give you guys plenty of room, speaking as a motorcyclist & car driver👍🏻
I've been a fire fighter, so i haven't driven trucks with a trailer, but i remember at the truck driving school i should back up to a cone and stop as close to it as possible. I was 4 meters off and couldn't really comprehend how hard it was at first to judge the distance by looking in the side mirrors.
I have huge respect for truckers and always give them enough space to manoeuvre
Hehe i did just the same back in 2008, when i had my first truck driving lesson 😎👍
The reason I stick my head out the window to see how far i am from a gate or what ever it might be :D
I've gotten kinda good at seeing depth-wise, but only after 7 years and it's still not perfect.
In Farming Simulator we use these steering axle type trailers a lot, and that thing about the tiniest input is very true. Respect for those that do this in real life as their job!! When I see truckers and bus drivers on the road, especially in town, I like to give them lots of room to do what they need to do, like stop way before the stop sign at a junction to give them more room to turn.
Reversing that kind of trailer with a real farm tractor and trailer is a lot harder since the hitch pivot point is so close to the rear axle. Add to it that farm equipment often have some more play at the hitch which makes it even harder to get it straight. I know this from experience.
You are right. I made my truck drivers license with a rig like this. And even if you didnt do a tiny input. The ground is never exactly in level and that is enough to make the trailer go to one side.
When im driving these steering axle trailers in farming sims i just force them back, me and these types of trailers do NOT agree with each other xD.
As a bus driver I am thankful!
I remember learning this almost 20 years ago. In the beginning my brain was just not working. Even backing up straight was hard. Then it suddenly clicked, and it's all just muscle memory now. Like riding a bike. 😅
I never had any dificulties reversing. I had that feeling from the start. I had some dificult times when techer told me to think something 😂 i had to tell the teacgert to keep his mouth shut or talk something else than reversing stuff 😅
have you ever found yourself reversing a normal car and trailer where it just doesn't work out, my mailbox was asking question about my drivers license for sure 🤣
Would really love to show you how we haul timber in Finland with this kind of truck trailer combination. Usually 4 axle truck and 5 axle trailer with liftable axles.
Very nimble things when 5 out of 9 axles are lifted in air so you need even less steering output to whip that back end. Very much needed addition when turning that thing around in narrow forest roads.
Same in Sweden, the timber drivers sure are badass 🤘
I used to haul asphalt with a tridem hook truck with sprider machine and Re-CoDrive and a 3-axle trailer with a looooong, extendable drawbar. I was used to short drawbars so I started out making small adjustments. Then I found out that nothing happened so I started making bigger adjustments. Then I went back to hauling regular pallet goods, so it took some re-adjusting. Never really reversed with the trailer when hauling asphalt, but when hauling gravel and mud, there was a lot of reversing into tight spaces. Today I deliver wares to grocery stores and the absolute majority don't have big yards with nice gates and docks so I still reverse with trailers into tight fucking spaces.
I have been driving those long timber trucks in Sweden and Finland, also load exchange truck (25m) in Sweden, plus truck+dolly+trailer. And I have to say that actually those long trucks behave much better than short ones. I'm back home for 6 years in Estonia on timber truck (18.75m) and I still think the same.
In Germany We got only the short Versions :(, im driving a 3 axle Truck and a 2 axle Trailer (Timber Truck)
What is the most challenging part or condition when working with timber trucks?
Just the other day I saw a driver backing up a double trailer into an alleyway... through a solid cement fence gate (he blocked half of street so I had to watch). That gave my anxiety, my god.Those little corner shops need their share or restock. Mad respect to those drivers
I drive this trucks with a shorter trailer on a daily base and sometimes you nailed it perfectly and sometimes its just not your day and you need a lot of time reversing.
He did a realy good explanation. Because its way harder to talk about it then show it. And he did both at the same time👍🏻
yeah, I have noticed that too, no matter how much experience you have, sometimes it for some reason feels impossible to reverse the trailer into the terminal even tho you have done it a million times.
Worked at a freight forwarder as agent. There was one driver with this setup who came once a week from luxembourg. He got it perfect every single time. No matter how narrow. All employes stood at the windows and watched him circling this huge thing in. and there was always a huge admiration for his skills ❤
Does Luxemburg have these 25m combination? I thought these are only in nordic countries, Finland, Sweden, Norway.
@@terot8341
These only exist in Scandinavia with different length requirements, Sweden Finland having the longest and heaviest restrictions in Europe. Some other combinations are allowed which is a mess to figure out exactly. A loft Dutch trucks do 25.25m combination with a semi-truck setup. Some come in via ship with a rigid truck and a smaller 3-axle in the middle type of drawbar trailer on the back.
@@terot8341 we also have them in the Netherlands. Allowed on appointed roads and for the driver an additional certificate on his driving licence. Maximum length 25,25 mtr. and no more than 50 tons ( metric) in weight.
Finland has some 34m long combinations, those are really massive ones.
@@croci81 And now, Sweden also has 34.5 m ones.
This configuration is known as a "rigid truck + full trailer". Here in New Zealand this is our most popular configuration. That is because this configuration is easier to operate in tighter spaces compared a tractor truck + longer semi trailer, while still allowing for as much (if not more) cargo space.
indeed it is easier to maneuver atleast when going forward cause it doesn't cut corners as hard unless the trailer is really long.
Hi Ian,
Here in Australia that setup is called A Truck and Dog. I guess because the trailer is attached to the truck much like a dog would be on a Lead when going out. Then when a Prime Mover is hauling ( you call them Tractor or trucks) 2 trailers we call them B Doubles. Beyond this they become Road Trains or B Triples.Yes, we are a weird mob Down Under. Love your work mate.
And a B Double is a lot harder to reverse than people think. (Even in a straight line)
Yeah, I remember back in the 80s when the 2 trailer trucks had the dog in between the trailers. There was a guy that had to stop at a flooded bridge crossing just up the road from our house and had to reverse it back out of the way, which was quite impressive because you're not just steering the truck with the dog at the back but you're steering the truck and trailer and the dog on the back of the trailer to pull the second trailer. Now they have the B Double where the first trailer has a triple axle with the coupling built in for hooking the 2nd trailer directly to the 1st trailer, which would be far easier to manoeuvre than the old set-up.
@@BasedinReality1984 B's are the hardest until someone teaches you the right way, then it's a lot easier, but they're still harder than anything else.
@@BasedinReality1984i would rather say that B double is the easier double hinge trailer to back up. While its less responsive than a A trailer its far easier to track. You can se what way its turning with the full size of the first trailer.
While of cause you can se the front of the A trailer, it jack knifes in a second.
I was gonna say, that’s not two trailers.
I remember backing up my trailer to a loading dock some years ago. When I got out of the cab to de-couple the trailer so I could back up the truck itself to the bay next to my trailer a Polish truck driver applauded me. 😮
He drove a "normal" semi as most do in continental Europe, and I had the normal Swedish big box truck and trailer, 24 meters long.
For him it was an extraordinary thing, for me it was an everyday thing.
I had a Russian do the same thing to me, once.
My first real job involved me driving a regular semi and oh lord it's so easy in comparison.
I learnt to drive that day one, whereas the 24 m rig took years.
I went to do my Finnish military service right after high school. I was 19. Previous experience was with tractors and trailers from farm + normal cars + small lorry driving to get my C license (truck without trailer). I ended up after 1st week to transportation company. Every evening after normal day service we had reversing training with same setup as in video. It was voluntary, but everyone wanted "big E" i.e. license to drive those big trucks with trailer. And surely enough, after about 5 weeks, almost everyone got the license. After you learn that, reversing semi or tractor is nothing.
I used to drive Scania truck and trailers the same size as these in New Zealand, but the trucks had twin steer axles and dual drive axles. Those 5 axles trailers are awesome, they're tow really great and follow around corners way better than you'd think. And yeah I've had to reverse them onto docks several times a day. It's just a matter of getting the back of the trailer in the right place and using the truck to steer the trailers front axle and if you get it right you basically just follow the trailer with a few small adjustments. Yeah and that's another thing you learn, like he explained, SMALL adjustments on the steering wheel.
When reversing straight, don't turn the steering wheel more than 90 degrees because after that you'll just start making bigger and bigger adjustments and then it's not a straight back anymore. One trick I always use if I'm making an angled reverse into a dock or gate, I will follow the line furthest away (So if I reverse to the left, I will follow the right line, or even go over it if I have enough space), then I will start pushing the front of the trailer slightly further out to get the rear wheels in the middle. Now, if I've done it correctly, I can just swing the front of the trailer back in the middle and the truck will hopefully be right between the lines, as well. Since we have big overhangs we can't line up the trailer and get the truck straight between the lines without like 100 meters of reversing. So I will need to have the rear bogie between the lines and then turn in. But for that to happen I need the front of the trailer outside the lines, so to speak.
@@tntfreddan3138Lol! The distance between the rear axle and the hitch-point (and the wheelbase of the truck + the lenghth of the trail of the trailer+ the wheelbase of the trailer + the overhang of the trailer) decides how sensitive the trailer are to steeringwheel adjustments
All 5 distances usually difference from every trucks and every trailers.
@@steinjohansen3142 What's so funny? I've reversed 6 different kinds of full trailers (2-axle, 3-axle with short drawbar and long wheelbase, 3-axle with long drawbar and short wheelbase, 4-axle with slightly shorter wheelbase and larger rear overhang, 4-axle with long wheelbase and dolly+semi trailer) and 2 kinds of semi trailers (regular with 3 axles and 3-axle container chassis with steerable rear axle). And why do you feel like you have to explain to me how to reverse with a trailer? My example of not steering more than 90 degrees when reversing straight is just a general rule of thumb. And my example of how I reverse at an angle into a dock was based on the vehicle combination I'm driving at work right now. 3-axle rigid truck with 4-axle full trailer.
@@tntfreddan3138 Lol!
Is your statement that the different configurement of tracktor and trailers depends on the same amount of steeringwheel movements to get the trailer to react?
When you say 90° steeringangle, I say at least 60° too much in every case.
@@tntfreddan3138 Since i´ve got my licence in 1984 I´ve reversed more than 1000 different configurations of tractors and trailers, every single one of them required different steeringangle to react the way I needed them to do. Never more than 30° steeringangle when reversing straight.
The easiest way to back up one of these up, is to remember the trailer turns to the same direction as you turn the wheels, just with a little delay. Reversing in general is alot easier if you have a little bit of a curve going on instead of being fully straight so you don't have to adjust as much. Gives you a bit more visibility to the rear too when backing into tight loading dock.
That company always have clean, maintained and nice trucks and trailers, even when they are getting old. I see them all the time as a taxi driver for 25 years around Stockholm/Uppsala. "Cool and Freeze express"
And they’ve had the same “cool” livery since the 90’s.
Kyl o Frysexpressen - a shipper specialising in reefer cargo - have had essentially the same livery for a good 40 years or more. Always makes me happy when I see it - very nostalgic.
I took my truck licence with a trailer (CE) in Sweden this summer. In an old Scania. Driving was not that hard but backing up was a pain. Still nervous to start working because of the backing up. Spent many many hours in a simulator. But its not the same.
keep it up, it's gonna get easier
don't be afraid to drive forward 100 times to reverse, the only shame there is, is if you hit something because you didn't take your time
been driving truck trailers for most of my career and the last 3 years i have been driving the same setup as shown in the video besides my trailer is shorter :p sitting around 19 meters
and don't be ashamed to pull the parking brake and go out and look, it takes time to learn where your truck is exactly without going out to take a peak.
best of luck!
@@quisari3649 thank you. on my driving exam I did that pulled the handbrake went out to check. If I hadent done it I would have driven on a patch of grass and failed.
@@KristoferOlsson awesome! Never feel ashamed of being cautious, my boss still jumps out of his truck any time he is slightly feeling it's off... And that's in his own parking lot.
Better be safe than paying repair bills :)
@@KristoferOlsson Quisari is right. Get out and see what you're dealing with, no matter how many cars are waiting. Don't let them or anyone else stress you, focus on the driving. Go slow so you have plenty of time to adjust. It'll get a little easier every time you do it and you'll learn to judge spaces a lot better. It is always better to take longer and get it right than to rush and cause damage to something. I've done the latter myself as I got stressed from people waiting. Nothing major, just scratches but I learned my lesson.
You'll also learn where to look before you turn in, so you have an overall idea of what is around you before it disappears from sight. At first, there is just too much going on but as some parts become more automatic, you'll have space in your brain to think about your surroundings more.
What I got from the simulator is not having to think about when to turn in what direction, so in real life I could focus more on what was around me. It is different for sure, but sims do help with some parts of it.
@@quisari3649 You are spot on. Practice where you can, to get the hang of it. More than 40 years ago when I got my license it was a requirement to be able to back up straight and around a sharp corner in a smooth way.
Double trailers and drawer bar trailers were rare in UK until about 15-20 years ago and it was always believed that they couldn't be reversed successfully. Back in 1996 I went to the Dutch Flower Auction in Aalsmeer and was surprised to see many drawer bar trailers reversing into the loading bays, disproving that it couldn't be done. What was more surprising was that the towing truck was occasionally a 12m triaxle rigid that are certainly not agile. Since then I have designed many bus depots to accommodate bendy (articulated) buses with drive on, reverse off workshop bays. The issue with bendys is that they have very limited articulation and the electronics cry enough when bent too far. This was one of the reasons Boris buses failed in London because the tight streets sometimes called for a reversing manoeuvre on the turn. When the electronics locked up it requires specialist Mercedes mechanics to reboot them and dislodge the bus from its resting place.
Thats insane about the bendy busses. However i do think UK roads a bit nonsense. Overdrawn, too tight, gazillion roundabouts in one, just hectic overall
@@nenadmkdBoJo was seduced by Mercedes and the glamour of bendys that were better suited to European cities. Technically, the bendys would just fit into London but that didn't account for all the variables, they were tried and found wanting and then what to do with all those buses? They went off into the provinces and were mostly used for the university runs, mainly because they didn't expose their weaknesses - 1) fare dodging, the bus driver couldn't control the access to the middle and rear doors, which wasn't a problem for student fares 2) Too many standing with little disabled allowance (130p capacity with 90p standing, it beggars belief what would happen in a collision with 90 standing!). There is a very good reason that most London buses have been traditionally double deckers, they carry 70-120 of seated passengers plus a limited number standing, they are a convenient size to fit the roads and can be operated by just a driver, not to mention that they don't have complicated electronics for steering.
bendy busses in London sounds like a very bad idea. Good going Boris, anyone could've told him it would fail. Politicians ugh 🙄
Malmo in Sweden, not even on the map in terms of size compared to London, went extra long bendy busses years ago. They had to rebuild a very long stretch of straight urban road to accommodate. Busses run in the middle with special stop islands built, cars are relegated to the outside lane. The road was wide enough to begin with so there's that. Takes a huge amount of space to run these things. Overall worked out really well.
@@rosen9425 Bendy buses are common in European cities that are often not too dissimilar to London, they can work and don't need special accommodation. in Berlin for example, there are double articulated bendys i.e three units connected together. A bendy is no more difficult to manoeuvre in a the forward direction than a single decker but singe deckers are also not suited to London due to their huge overhangs and consequent wide swings. The bus companies were getting to grips with the bendys in London, once the drivers understood their limitations but what couldn't be resolved was the fare dodging that occurred, the driver couldn't control the access to and from the bus other than at the front door. Maybe Europeans are more honest than Brits or that they accept more fare dodging.
The re-introduction of the iconic double deckers to London was what should have happened all along to replace the old Metropolitans et al. Apart from being wonderfully efficient for London they are instantly a recognisable piece of London's cultural art.
@@clivewilliams3661 The other big problem with the bendy busses is if you get "winter" . . being a pusher with the drive wheels on the "trailer", they are a bit of a handful in icy or snowy conditions. Even with winter tyres, we regularly see them parked up on hills if it's particularly frosty, until the gritters come to help or they are towed out.
I've drove these for around 14 years daily, and still do on weekends from time to time. I still could not explain how to back one up, but it is actually pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Best way I can explain it, is to not think about where to turn the truck but rather where to turn the dolly of the trailer.
In The Netherlands we call these: LZV (Lang Zwaar Voertuig) ((Long Heavy Vehicle)). Over here you need a special certificate to drive them. They are 25.25 meters long. I have driven one for about two years.
This is not a 25.25, it's 24m and it not a normal 18m combination trailer just sitting on a dolly, the "dolly" is part of the trailer. This is a normal truck and trailer combo in sweden. 25.25s also exist of course, but are less common
@@eliaslundstedt5607those 24 or 25 meter trucks are there in very different combinations. Truck with 1 container and a trailer witje 2 containers or a truck with a normal 2 container trailer extended with a a trailer with 1 container different configurations are possible but these are the most common to see at container terminals if they are are transporting 3 containers of 6 meter (20 feet)
In addition to these, with the fairly recent changes in rules across Scandinavia allowing 25.5m combos, some hauliers from outside Scandinavia now send 2 semi's and a truck/trailer (drawbar rather than bogie) combo to the ferry.
On arrival off the ferry in Scandinavia, Semi 1 drops their trailer, and a bogie dolly is fitted to the 5th wheel kingpin. Truck drops trailer, and backs onto the dolly to create 1 combo as in this video.
The 2nd semi then backs up to the now spare trailer (approx size to take a 20ft container for reference) and we see a semi with an extra trailer at the rear.
The now spare tractor unit for the semi meets up with the crew returning with their combos, and they reverse the changes to make 2 semis and a truck trailer again, to head back to other parts of Europe where these longer combos are not legal (yet)
th epossibility to exchange loads and recombine this way is one addition to Euro Truck Simulator I woudl like to see. And trade loads midway to return "home" with colleagues etc.
When I did my truck licence I had to back one of these. Was a 2 axle but I think it doesnt matter that much. But man it was a pain and I spent so much time learning it with my instructor. But thankfully I aced it on my driving test. It's all about the millimetres and percentages of degrees of turning. :)
My husband has been driving trucks like that for at least 20 years. But he's been doing it on tiny roads in the forrest picking up timber or wood chips. It's fun when they have to turn around at the end of a road in the forrest. You can almost reach out the window and pat the trailer. I used to hang out with him while he was working a lot. Long days but fun.
Love that. At the driving school we had a competition going on: A parking lot, going in as fast as possible, straighten out, done. The parking lot being 2m longer than the whole length of the truck with trailer (not sure how Americans call it, we call it a train like the Germans do), it was quite a challenge. I was a bit frustrated that I only got 7th place. Me calmly zigzaging the whole thing into place, the winner calculating his move and going full throttle. But, well, was a funny BBQ we had with the beer he won :D
In front of my home is a building place. Last time a truck came to deliver goods i was to late to film it. I did not realize it would be a good video for this channel. Bet next time, i will ask upront, i will film it. I never thought a big and long truck could make the small corners. But it did with 3 turning axels. A joy to watch!
I am a Scania employee since 2002, working on development and quality control of the interior of the cab the last 4 years.
hey mate, i actually did it as my first job, a thing like this. the most inportant thing to know is, the joint where it is connected, NEVER overpull that, because then, the coupler will brake, for shure . its not easy , but once u understand, its doable. just easy peasy lemon squeesy.
The gearbox is basically a standard gearbox with a standard clutch but controlled and operated by electronics and pneumatics and it works GREAT!!!
The little switch on the steering column let’s you choose forward-neutral-reverse,push the accelerator and that’s all....
The electronics are aware of all sorts of input like axleloads aso..... in fact it even knows where you are (GPS!) so it knows when to switch to neutral and idle the engine to save fuel as you approach a downhill slope.... me driver just chill,hold the wheel and observe traffic....
I have driven many different trucks including very old 4x4’s and 6x6’s.... (look it up MAN 632!!!) also with non-synchronised gearboxes.... and also offroad (desert and jungle..) it was good fun and I loved the way a truck would make me part of a communication between man and machine resulting in smooth gearchanges,little breakdowns and a happy (but tired....) driver...
I now drive Euro6 Scania’s maximum around 8 years old,1.000.000 km..... all automatic gearshift and I don’t mind it a bit;I’m glad I learned ‘old skool’ in the past,but I am also pleased with the modern conveniences...... like a proper SoundSystem (standard fit in our Scania’s) it would’ve been a waste of money in the noisy ‘old skool’ trucks!!
I LOVE YOUR VIDS!!!!!!
Kind Regards,Henk,Dedemsvaart,the Netherlands.
Me and my brother did start early. I was only 8 when we started to battle backing around the garage the fastest. I had to stand up. So greatful that we lived in a time, and had parent who did let us!
He told the basics quite good. You can used those and learn more. Hardest part is to learn to know all the time where your truck and trailer goes so you don't hit something or drop of the road or yard and tip the truck or the trailer on its side.
My dad drove one of these in the mid seventies. It was a thirty foot rigid Scania pulling a thirty foot trailer mounted on a two wheeled bogie (the fifth wheel) It was the only vehicle of its type in a fleet of over a hundred conventional lorries i.e. tractor unit plus forty foot trailer and known amongst the other drivers as a "wagon and drag"
There are recent changes in Scandinavia where they can now run combos that effectively allow 3x 20 foot container size trailer units. Either as a 20 foot on a truck plus a semi sized trailer that can take a 40 foot or 2x20 foot (much like these here) or a semi, with a trailer holding a 40 footer, plus a drawbar trailer behind that with a 20 footer on it. (Either containers, or box truck, but sizes are similar)
When you got the feel for it, it goes like you've always done it, but it takes time to learn it..
Starting today (31 of august 2023) 34,5 meter truck+trailer vehicles will be allowed on approved roads in Sweden. (Though most of those roads won't allow these trucks until the 1st of december)
That's ~10 meters longer than the truck in the video. (The video states 24m but that kind of combination is usually 25,25m. So ~10m)
Finally. We have had that in Finland for several years already.
Your excitement of these trucks is catching. I've been driving these type of trucks for 30 years now. Almost all the possible types freeze cabs, tankers, etc.. Currently I have 25,5 meters (85 ft.) flatbed truck and trailer to transport personnel lifters like scissor lifters, boom lifters ("cherry picker" in uk and "moon walker" in finnish) it is a bit trickier to reverse since you got no upper corner as check mark and some of the construction sites and city centers are so tight that every bit of little help would count. But I have to admit that every time after succeeded to reverse in tricky place, it feels really good. Even after all these years.
Mercedes upped the game a lot. Cameras everywhere, even a backup function that show what trailer angle you should hold etc. Literally cheating 😅
My dad used to hual a-trains which was a tri axle trailer plus tandem dolly plus a tri axle pup trailer back and forth from Michigan to canada. Where he had to deliver in Canada was very difficult for people who didn't understand this or didn't know the trick to it. So what you had to do is do a U-turn to the right so you blind side back into a 8ft 6in hole (trailer is 8 foot) so about 3 inches on each side. Most of the things this guy talks about works but my dad also had a fith wheel lock which lock the dolly and the pup trailer straight.
I remember how hard it was for me to just learn how to park a car with a tiny trailer. I got so frustrated in the beginning and I couldn't understand the instructions I got from the man who knew how to do it. But once I learned, it became really easy. I guess it's about the same with the trucks, that you need to get a feeling for it and once you got that, it gets a lot better.
the main trouble when reversing with car and trailer is i would say knowing when to counter-steer.
I usually describes it as : turn your setup into a banana, and when the banana has it's correct curve align the front wheels with the banana.
I got it pretty much straight away, it's alot more finnicky to be precise with this setup than a tractor/trailer rig, I was really good at this straight out of trucking school, got employed only driving tractor/trailers tho and could not believe how easy they were to reverse even tho they take up alot more space doing so, after about a year driving my usual setup the boss put me on a truck trailer (like this one) duty for a day to deliver just the trailer full of building materials to a warehouse, took me 30 minutes on an empty lot to finagle the damn trailer into the bay, I was fuming, red faced, swearing like a sailor but got it there in the end :D It's a skill you need to keep practicing or it gets really hard really fast. You should see the guys and gals driving timber truck with this setup in the forests, it's amazing to see, there simply aren't any problems for them, they just back the empty trailer straight into the slighest clearing in the forest to turn around.
Knutkalas 😁💪
All depends on two things...A Two pivot combination, where ever direction you want the arse-end of your trailer, point your tractor unit in that direction (keep the dolly "pivot point of both) either inline of the trailer or tractor unit.
Single pivot Semi's are easy until you've driven truck n trailer units most of ya life... I have trouble backing my car trailer, because I've been driving Roadtrains backing the dolly onto the 2nd trailer.
As someone who reverses this kind of truck and trailer almost everyday, I find this easier then reversing a car and trailer :D
Depending on where the coupler is located on the truck will effect the response on your steering imput..
Having the coupler located near the rear axle will require more input then having it between the taillight as you can use the swing of the rear end to help steer the dolly..
At work i have drivin both and also a B-couple (semi+ trailer/slider + trailer) and i also practice a lot on ets 2.. and drivingschool might not like it. But ets2 now is more advanced then the driving simulator i use during my schooling every 5 years
And to be honest.. driving forward if you can drive with 1 trailer then you can also drive with 2 trailers.. the only part you need to master is the reversing.. i usually look at the position of the wheels as loading bays often have a guiding stripe on the ground.. try putting the wheels on that line.. thats basicly the quickest way to learn it
I sweden its pretty much universal. The truck have about 3 meter from the fixed axel to the hitch. Of it have a tag axel its typically behind and counter stearing. If there is two tag axel the other one is always in front. Always keeping the same aproximate distance from the fixed axel to the hitch.
for the life of me I still suck at reversing a trailer without any distance between the coupler and the axles, the best way I can explain how it works is that with a truck that has some throw so more distance between the last axle and the coupler, you're steering the dolly, but with a truck that has no distance in between, you're chasing the dolly around.
The tricks I had to do to back-up somewhere in spaces are countless . Very, very rearly I drove these kind of trucks . And I learned one thing about backing-up these . Hold the corners together as much as possible and drive slowly . I drove 38 years with a DAF all over Europe
I used to work for a British breakdown recovery truck, during the summer it was not uncommon to recover cars towing caravans, putting the car on the bed of the truck you then had to hitch the caravan to the back of the truck, caravans have a short drawbar so turning to tight results in the back of the truck going through the front of the caravan
They have a similar setup in South Africa. However, instead of a box unit + trailer like in the video, they have a semi unit + half trailer + full trailer. You have a pivot point between the semi unit and the first trailer, and another pivot point between the first and second trailer. They call it a Superlink setup. They use a good mixture of USA and Euro cabover brands too such as International, MAN, Frieghtliner, Scania, Volvo, and Merc.
Those Superlink units are way common in Scandinavia too these days. (usually 25.25meters long.) I've heard a few names for them by now, another one being 'D-Link'.
Known most places as B-trains now I believe, certainly both Scandinavia, Canada, US and Australia.
Good and simple explanation.👍 the most drivers steering to much.😉 the smaller the hanger the more difficult.😊
It's interesting to see how easily really experienced drivers back up with these. Backing up through tight curves with pretty good speed at the first attempt like it's nothing special.
When I learned truck driving at the Army, if was lucky to only push the truck and trailer backwards straight for 20m.
Two years after, all new soldiers had to push it to the left or right, while left is easier, as you can look out of the window, what you can't do on the rights side.
When I was working in logistics, I was the referent teacher for newly hired truck drivers. Just to get them used to park their truck at the warehouse.
The way I learned it was through Maths. It's all trigonometry. Granted that I'm a Nerd and always was good at Math.
But man, driving those trucks was a blast.
Even the SLIGHTEST move on the wheel has a far reaching effect on the trailer. You need to check BOTH sides, stop to check your dead angles, and if you're not sure, get out and visually check that everything is ok. Never had any problem maneuvering big rigs in my 5 years. Very fond memories. 😻
Didn't had the license tho... And ultimately lost that job.
That kind of truck/trailer rig is 24m long. I'm always amazed by those drivers, backing those up in the tightest places.
Very VERY common combination here in Sweden. You see them almost everywhere. Takes 64 tonne total load. Beginning to go for 74 tonne on several larger roads, and regular testing (special permits but they drive normal everyday traffic there in some areas) in north are done with 90 tonne. And heavier will come.
I drive these kinds of trailers daily (18m total and 25m) for me it is really easy to do, but explaining it to someone is really hard. I think it helps that i dont drive the same combo everyday (18m, 25m, tractor/trailer/trailer, boxtruck/dolly/trailer, boxtruck/traler(18m), boxtrucl/2midaxle trailers and tractor/trailer/midaxle trailer)
Bc all truck drive different i think you learn the idea of backing up better. He did a good job explaining, i wouldn't be able too😅 i just show new guys what to do rather then explaining 😅
Here in New Zealand that's just simply a truck and trailer unit, and they are the most common combination of trucks here, mostly 8x4 trucks with either 4 or 5 axle trailers. I drive a FM4/5 Volvo 8x4 with 4 axle milk tanker here in New Zealand, part of one of the largest fleet of trucks in the country. Reversing is a bit more difficult as you don't have a straight box trailer to use as a guide but instead round barrels, but with lots of practice it gets pretty easy, the hard part is having to back up on a narrow country road in the dark with no lights except for you truck lights, now that gets challenging lol.
I think this is what differs Scandinavia and Finland, where semi trailers also are in minority, from the rest of Europe. Finland has in fact the biggest vehicle combinations in Europe. Up to 34.5 m long combinations (truck + actual trailer or tow truck with 2 trailers) and 23 m long tow truck + one semi trailer combinations can be driven on almost all roads. The maximum total weight is 76 tons.
Hopefully you are well equipped with plenty of work lights all around the truck.
Hey buddy! Thanks for sharing and linking to my channel! Glad u liked it! ❤
Great hour to load a vidéo on Europe. It’s noon break here, this is a perfect chill time in my day! Greeting from France Ian!
This is not just an all European truck. This is a truck for the northern Europe, such as Norway, Sweden and Finland. The roads are built for 25.25 meters crew. Peace! :) / A trucker in Sweden! Really nice chanel!
Denmark is in there as well. 34m as of New years, so EMS2/A-trains also
Sweden has a maximum length of 34,5m now a days. And BK4 74 ton.
Reversing with duoble turnpoints as shown in the video is completly oposite from reversing a truck and single trailer, in this configuration you have to turn the way you want your trailer to go basiclly. I drive a similar combination at work and it can be hard sometimes and sometimes its a piece of cake...
Also it can be easier to reverse at an angle with your truck abit to the left, makes it easier to see where you are going to.
Typically the distance from the rear axle pivot point to the hitch is quite long, which gives a good leverage tor steering the dolly. And the towbar is also quite long, so it's not very fast to turn. That makes it easier than one might think to steer the trailer. But yeah, the dolly is the thing you look at and steer, everything else comes along. It takes skill.
This kind of trailer is hard to reverse, on a semi trailer there is only one pivot point, the 5th wheel.
Same when you have a car with a rigid axle trailer, the hitch is the pivot point.
But on these there are two pivot points, the hitch where the tow bar connects and then the pivot of the dolly. Also, the longer the overhang behind the last axle of the box truck, the more a little steering input will move the tow bar sideways, and the greater the reaction of the trailer.
But how he explains it in the video is very good. Keeping an eye on the dolly makes controlling this dolly the same as a trailer behind a car, but on top of this he keeps on checking the position of the dolly in relation to the trailer. Takes some time to learn the steering inputs you have to make to control these two parameters.
At driving school you have to learn how to reverse with such a trailer. Around a corner is WAY harder than a tractor/trailer combination. I have tried both for real. Though reversing with a setup as in the video, some pupils can learn it quickly. I learned to reverse such a setup out of our school's garage. I only managed to reverse it around a corner in first try only ONCE! I was lucky this year to try reversing with a tractor/trailer combination. It was SO much easier. :O
Not only is the truck way longer than a semi-tractor but the dolly ads another pivot point. And the dolly is like a super short trailer which means it jackknifes really quickly
The human brain amazes me. People, with some practice, can do things like this instinctively.
In Denmark, we drive 25 meters where it is a forvogn with a dolly and a trailer or link trailer where it is basically a small trailer with a stool and a regular 13.60 trailer that is attached to the back of a tractor. I personally think it is easier to back up with a forvogn dolly rather than a link trailer
Often in the UK we get double trailers like this however there aren't any steering axles, so they are more like an over sized car trailer.
There is a single pivot point rather than a double pivot as shown in the video
I had a trailer that was as long at the truck I pulled it with. With the pivot in the middle, the point of no return is really really easy to find and blast past! Luckily I had a super low-range option so I could keep it slow. I spent two afternoons practicing around the same t-junction in my neighbourhood before I was confident enough to use public roads! It's not easy, but is not too hard. Have to know when you've overcooked it and stop. I'd love to try in a truck with a short prime-mover and long trailer - should be easier... Should be! LOL
A short tractor with a long semi is the easiest to reverse.
@@cadifanOne day, someone will let me play...
Also depends a lot on the distance from the rear axle(s)/pivot point of the truck, out to the hitch and then the drawbar length. The closer the hitch is to the rear axle, the more you have to wiggle the truck.
it's just about experience. have never experienced it as difficult to back any type. small steering wheel movements and go out to check if you are unsure. those who have difficulty are usually too macho to get out of the trucks and check that it looks okay.
I was raised in a farming community and practice revering four wheel trailers as a younster (12-16 years old). Scanias are nice trucks to drive having spent a few thousand miles behind the wheel of them, I can attest to tht much.
I also had to drive and back up a four wheel, steering axle agricultural trailer with a tractor for a while. Despite doing this for almost a year, five days a week and the whole setup being much shorter, I still frequently steered wrong and had drive forwards and try again. I don’t really remember but maybe the trailer was light enough when empty to manoeuvre it by hand.
I dont know about other contries, but in Norway we was only allowed this trucks (18 meters back in the days I had my licence now it is 19.25 meters) when take the licence, Now living in Sweden and have this 24 meter truck is much easier as the trailer is reacting slower than the 18 and 19.25 meter trailer I am used with from Norway.
I'm not a truck driver, but this was really fascinating!
UK here, I drove a wagon and drag , A frame trailer, DAF 2500 Turbo, back in the 80s… yes, they are buggers to reverse.
I remember when I started learning how to reverse a trailer properly. Pretty much the same scenario little adjustments on the wheel and always use your mirrors. Granted it wasn’t this type of setup though. Started with a single trailer and then b-double. The double pivot point was challenging but I got it eventually. Now that I’m driving buses the company doesn’t want us to reverse rigid buses let alone articulated buses. Although I have a time or two after taking a wrong turn.
I have no experience driving with a trailer, but it sounds logical the way he describes it. However, I imagine it would take a lot of practice to become good at this. I have a lot of respect for these truck drivers.
A couple of weeks ago while playing ETS2 I was actually thinking that if I ever became a millionaire, I wouldn't buy one of those expensive "trendy" big SUVs, I would buy a Scania truck. I have a category C driving license, so I'm allowed to drive a heavy truck over 3500 kg with a trailer of maximum 750 kg. It would be a bit impractical to have a big truck, but it would be cool. Definitely different from the Nissans and Toyotas that the neighbours have.
👋 from 🇸🇪 Not only is it the front axel that turns... He forgot to mention that the connection to the truck is also point of turning... Obvious for truckdrivers... But maybe not to everyone
Similar types of setups exist in north America, I believe California and parts of Canada maybe even more. It is hard even if you have experience. You better have it down by muscle memory or really think about your moves before they happen or it's all over. It's especially important if you're limited on space which can result in you not having enough room to actually reset to start over. Any trailer movements to the left or right is permanent, you don't get that back unless you drive out exactly as you came in which is impossible.
It's also not only about angles with these things. It starts with draw-bar length (the physical bar between the units). In this video it's super short to maximize the cargo space adhering to the overall length restrictions.
When I still drove I had a *10 foot* long drawbar between truck and trailer. This means the trailer movements are more delayed from your steering movements. All about planning ahead a lot. You need about one whole combo length behind you to make it, which is ~80 feet or even more. Here's the kicker, backing up straight is actually the most difficult manoeuvre you can do and I botched a lot of those believe or not.
I swear reversing 400 feet (130 m) with a 45° lane switch into a concrete containment barrier bay was easier than backing up straight while park at the company, nothing makes you feel and look like the greenest rookie ever born botching a straight reverse 🤣
not gonna lie you should twist those end of your mustache to make it french lol, and awesome react like always !!
Well, in Europe we also have this thing called "Link". This is something u could do with your truck. A shorter trailer first and on a fixed Dolly you have a longer trailer after that. Three pivotpoints...
You should watch a video about reversing a HCT, which is basically two semi-trailers on one truck
Ive done this during my examination for the Class C/CE that means C (Truck) and CE (Truck with trailer) so yeah you have to drive a Truck with a Trailer if you want to have C/CE.
To pass the examination you have to push it back 20m straight,, 90 degress on a cross around the corner straight and backwards to a "Loadingbay"
Had to reverse ond of these on ny commercial license exam, tricky to reverse but very manoeuvrable and follows the truck better in turns and so on compared to a semi..very stable as well, however I recommend using one of the bigger Scania or Volvo Engines for this type of configuration 🤠
You should watch the video where they are backing up even longer truck on to the loading dock. Video is named reversing 34 meter truck into loading dock. Also, great vie as always, greetings from finland👍
My father was a truck driver for many years in europe. He drove all type of trucks, from Scania, volvo, daf, man, mercedes, renault and iveco...the best truck he drove was a leyland...he always told me that the leyland truck was designed for ownership, easy to mantain, easy to build parts for, very predictable ...maybe you should do a dive into the british leyland trucks as a sugestion
And the backing part my father used points of reference, a gate, another truck, sometimes he placed rocks...and he always said that it gets better with time and it does not need to park close to the loading dock right on the first atempt , and correct as soon as the truck goes out of the desired path
I use to drive a tipper combo like this and one of the fun things to do was tip the trailer then jackknife the trailer tip the truck right into the heap from the trailer and have the trailer parallel along side the truck and check the trailer tail door without getting out of the cab
I am driving such a combination in The Netherlands. we call it a LZV Lang,Zwaar,Voertuig witch translates to Long Heavy Vehicle. The one combination on video is the easiest. the one they drive a long trailer front an d small one behind that is the hardest. I haul containers with a B-double setup. 3 axle tractor with fitht wheel. Followed by 3 axles short trailer with fithtwheel and the back two steer. Followed by a normal 3 axled non steering trailer. Some days you get it exactly where you want other days you look like a rookie.
If you gonna try it on ETS 2 i recommend the rigid mod by Kast and ekeri trailer mod by kast too 😅. Been driving these kind of kombinations for 6 years now, i recommend you to start with a 4 axel trailer, its more gently to a begginer and wont be to slow to steer in the back. A 5 axel trailer 2 axels front and 3 back turns much slower and can be hard to back to a rookie and also to drive on the ets roads 🤣.
If you know how to back up a normal trailer, than you can forget al that. With a normal trailer If you steer to the left the trailer goes to the right. If you steer to the left with these kind of trailers, than your trailer goes to the left. That is the simplest way to explain it.
Even though, this is a good in depth explanasion!
As a trucker with over 20 years of experience, this is still the easiest way to park a trailer....
let's make it "a bit" more difficult...
at night in the dark, on the driver's side a wall and only with the right mirrors alone... !
this was my daily routine and my pitch was right at the end of the dock with a wall next to me
03:31 in night ( dark) is that very difficult and even harder make if raining and parking area is higher or lower ( up hill or valley ) + in winter when road is icy .
This is just as simple as reversing a regular car with a regular trailer.
Look forward, place your hand at the BOTTOM of the steeringwheel.
If you want to see the trailer in your left mirror, turn your hand to the left.
If you want to see the trailer in your right mirror, turn your hand to the right.
Always use small movements.
Reversing with a semitrailer:
Look forward, place your hand at the TOP of the steeringwheel
If you want to see the trailer in the left mirror, turn your hand to the left.
If you want to see the trailer in your right mirror, turn your hand to the right.
Always use small movements.
I''m actually driving set like this just a bit shorter and I can't say that I'm specialist because I'm driving it since last winter only but once you get the idea how it turns it's more manuverable than semi trailer and the key is patience and little turns of steering wheel. I've never seen anyone reversing this "fast". And like this guy said "look at front axle of a trailer" and you can do magic with this trailer
We used to have a driver from Hormann,Daniel,he could Chuck those around like a bag of crisps,😎👍🇬🇧Daniel,AKA!!! Sven,🤣
The thing is you got 2 pivot points compared to just 1 pivot on a semi. Here you have 1 at coupling between the tractor and the towbar and then another at the dolly. But he is reversing to the left. Reversing to the right is more challenging for sure :)
In Australia it's called truck and dog rig the trailer is a dog trailer which has wheels on all 4 corners with front that steer
Ian , that's Not a double Trailer . It is a Rigid Truck and a Drawbar Trailer . SINGLE Trailer .
That was an EXCELLENT Instructional Video for reversing that configuration .
Not only Ian, but also the guy in the video called it a "double" when it's indeed a rigid truck.
His tips are great. Its pretty easy to understand how to do it. Worst part is when you are trying to do it yourself. its not as easy as it looks.
It's now been exactly 2 decades, when was the last time i have been behind big wheel like that,
during my time as a concript in the Finnish defence forces.
This is really good video to explain this reversing! what i like to say for "new drivers" with this kind of trucks when backin up. (i try to explain with my english skills as good as i can) Imagine that trailer's turning first axle is that what is your front wheels in regular car, BUT you steer those "front tires" with that truck you are backing that trailer.. "your truck is your hands to steer trailers turning tires" :D Sorry for bad english skills :D LOL
If this makes any sense? :D hard to explain when english is not my main Languake :P Greetings from Finland by theway! ;)
And one thing when backing up in tight spaces, it is NOT a bad thing to step out from you truck and go to see angles that you are not seeing from the cabin, if you are not sure if it is close to something that you do not see. Better be safe, than sorry they say :)
It takes abit of practice. I used to reverse little tractor trailors with the front axle pivot point. Even harder on loose pebbles.
I remember driving link and trailer with a pusher axel. terrible turning radius. Used to be jealous of these units, thinking I could paralell park with one of these.
Thst setup used to be kinda common in the USA, however there were a lot more accidents, so they were banned.
Aussies: Hold my 6-trailer road train.
8:45 this is the easy part with these.. turning these around a corner of a building or in between two buildings because there is the loading dock...hats off to the men ans women...
You should try a 4 trailer road train that's exciting to watch come to northern Australia and watch them park them and back up