reminds me of this one guy i know who said knights would always slip in mud because of the flat metal plates they'd have on the soles of their sabatons and i was like m8, who'se gonna stab you in the sole of your feet.
I tend to think that rather than misconception, it was originally a movie technique to make cheap armour that looked like something appropriate, while not overly weighing down the actors. Much in the same way that many movies use knitted "chain" armour. Perhaps the misconception came later on, reinforced by role playing games.
morallyambiguousnet it also comes from chinese armour as well or indian mughal armour, padded armour full of brass riivets known as coat of 1000 nails. the chinese armour was, like the gauntlets, initially lined with plates, but as they used guns, they kept the coats, but left out the plates just leaving the studs....
Ragimund VonWallat Probably because the leather served to protect the iron plates from the elements and general wear and tear. The real reason it existed is because at the time metallurgical techniques hadn't advanced to the point that they could make large even pieces of shaped steel.
imperialus11 Having the ability to do something doesn't speak to the economy of doing a thing. Making a bunch of small plates and then riveting them onto a jack is far less costly and time consuming than making formed, tempered plate armour. When you need to equip a few hundred or thousand fighters, economy definitely plays into it.
In one video - can't remember who it was, maybe Matt Easton - it was said that the visors of helmet were probably closed only in an advance on the enemy, who was firing missiles on you. Or also in an approach to a manned wall in a siege. But in close combat, they opened their visor, and thought without it. Because actually seeing your enemy was more important than that extra protection. Many medieval artworks also show combat with open visors.
That's exactly how I think they must have fought - it's the only way it makes sense. Then again, there are older, crusader-era full-face helmets that don't have a visor - I imagine melee fighting in those was a bitch...
lalucre1803 But then why was there no nose- or cheek-protection underneath, to leave the face not completely unprotected? There'd certainly be the room for it, at least with the displayed helmet... Zombigotron You're refering to those pot-like great-helmets? Well, they do have a tendency to look oddly oversized. What if they wore a different helmet underneath and simply threw off the great-helmet once they made it to melee range?
MadnerKami I do not have the answers to your question. ;) I do think, however, that this theory is sound. Visibility and awareness, i guess, is more immportant than a visor in close combat. Having a protected face, but not knowing what your opponent is doing, will get you killed for sure.
I'm wondering if this was analogous to tank warfare, where there's long been the question of whether the vehicle commander should remain safely buttoned up or be out of the hatch for situational awareness. I'm not sure how much better current armour might be, but through the 20th century the consensus seemed to be that an exposed commander made the vehicle much more effective, though obviously with a degree of personal risk.
I remember the french translation of the D&D-based video game Baldur's Gate renamed the studded leather armor "brigandine". I can imagine the translators trying and failing to find the "proper translation" of a type of armour that didn't exist, giving up and replacing it with something proper that at least somewhat looked like the in-game icon of the item.
@@Liam_The_Great Brigandine is not an armour in core AD&D 2nd Edition core rules which is what Baldur's Gate is based on. So the translators are picking a term not otherwise in the game. (Brigandine almost certainly appears in some obscure supplement).
@@charlottewalnut3118 Studded leather most certainly exist. I know studs in leather whose leather is studded. It's not setting/period-accurate fantasy/medieval armour though. I do admit that. But you could do a Called Shot to the gaps in the armour: neck, arm-pits, crotch, etc.
The fact that the steel splints are on the inside is good news for costume/re-enactment folks on a budget/time crunch. It looks like studded leather, even if there's more to it. They could just leave them out, say they're there, and no one would be the wiser. Therefore, every time I do see studded leather in a movie, I'm going to just assume there's some steel plates underneath. Even if they say otherwise. Just to try and keep my pedantic brain from nitpicking the movie to pieces.
There needs to be something to give the piece structure and rigidity, else it's just floppy like clothes. But you're right, nobody's going to see it so it needn't be steel plates. plastic would probably work just fine.
@@sergarlantyrell7847 Maybe they should have some plastic or aluminum plates to make it look the part while being light for the actor and less expensive for the studio.
@@conn0rized292 the difficulty is mostly getting the material covering the right shape to look like it's containing armour plates. Honestly though, once they develop the material pattern for 1, they could just copy it and trim it down to fit better.
Darkwood has a pair of them. I know a few other people make them, but this design in particular seems to have an issue with people getting fingers broken in them.
How could you not think that cabochon is beautiful?! Its very imperfections reflect the nature of the procuring of the gems, with soldiers, not with trade.
"And the Lord spake, saying, First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four, shalt thou not count, neither count thou two excepting that thou proceed to three. Five is right out, once the number 3, being the third number be reached, then lobbist thou holy hand grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in my sight shall snuff it. Amen"
"This is a gold reliquary crown. All craftscarolingianship is of the highest quality. It menaces with spikes of gold, agate cabochons, pearl cabochons, quartz cabochons, carnelian cabochons and tourmaline cabochons and is encircled with bands of gold. It is decorated with human bone. On the item is an image of Swedes in graphite. The Swedes are laughing. The artwork relates to the looting of the Saint Elizabeth Reliquary crown in a time before time."
Wooden armour existed in Japan apparently, also Siberian natives used it to fortify their shoulder armour according to wiki. I imagine it was used among primitive tribes and so forth too, as similar materials are used.
I've been wondering about doing a video on studded leather for years. There are a few types of real armour that might be mistaken for it, but beyond that it would be just five minutes of a man saying 'It didn't exist and is a daft idea'. One day, perhaps.
Lindybeige Even as a layman, as I looked up what studded leather is I was like: "How does this help?". What would you recommend as a replacement in D&D (aside wood armor :P)?
Maybe not just studded then, perhaps a general video on armor misconceptions (I know you already have a few). I can't tell you how many people seem to think that armor such as in the Elder Scrolls V is actually practical (oh, yes, I'm not even joking.).
DivineChronometer True, but I HATE how the modern games do lazy armour animation. If you look closely, they've just replaced the torso model with the armour model, without even bothering to re-rig it. This is fine for leathers or hides- even okay for mailles. But it makes the plate armours flex and bend as though they were skin-tight. There's no hang or rigidity to it.
When I was little, the local museum here was quite large, it had a big section of taxidermied animals inside little "habitats", and an entire 2nd floor to viking age artifacts. For many years I didn't go there, and in that time they expanded to a 2nd building, and I was always curious to this new and expanded museum. I went back earlier this year, and all the taxidermied animals had been cramped together into a single room, all the archaeology into another small cramped room, and the rest was a massively vast cafeteria.
Those gauntlets are awesome. I want them! As for the visor question, I think later helms had pin fastenings to keep the visors raised or lowered. Lacking that, I can only suppose that the hinges were much tighter than in the reproduction, relying on friction to keep in place.
The modern-made Grettir gauntlet approximates the look of the Wisby type. A few of these were found in the burials, which were hasty, after that 1361 battle. These hurried burials are believed to represent genuine examples of 'coats of plates.'
That jewel thing is pretty hideous. "Yeah I'd like a big lump of gold and jewels and whatever. I want there to be no mistake about how rich and important I am."
True that, it is quite doubtful that a strong loyal army stands behind a wnnabe (which was the instrument to put pressure on the pope (not as a threatening but rather protecting force though)).
danehb89 Nazdreg1 Ragimund VonWallat In case you guys missed it, that was a RELIQUARY. It was a crown to put on the relics of Elisabeth of Schonau. It symbolizes the crowns one receives when in heaven (such as , a crown of martyrdom, a crown of chastity) it was never worn by anyone living. Nothing to show off, it is a piece of reverence to go with the holy relics.
So relics are not for showing off right? I mean why are they all so nicely and artfully stored and why is it important that everyone can see them? If relics are purely out of reverence they could be stored modestly out of public attention and you go there everyday to pray. This is reverence. The other thing is showing off reverence which was a cool trait back in those days. Let me compare it to modern times. You are a big fan of a certain celebrity and try to get a signed poster of him/her or whatever. Why the signing? And why do you hang it at the most prominent spot at home? Out of respect? No. You do it because you can show it to other people and be proud of it and of course also to invite other people to respect the celebrity as well. Same thing with relics.
Lindybeige actually, ailettes from the early Crusade period (can't remember the years precisely) were often made of wood, or metal-plated wood (with tournament examples being cloth and parchment). So wooden armour could be a thing. Also, toss out RPGs that suggest only bad shields are made of wood.
You do know parchment is animal skin and not wood based like paper ? So who would use parchment over leather for armor, as parchment aren't tanned, thus less durable to wear and tear. Also parchment just return to a rawhide state if it get wet. As for aillette they are decorative add-on, thus why they could be made of parchment, easier to paint them.
Where did I say parchment wasn't animal hide? Sorry, but did you just need to show off that you knew that, or...? Just an overly aggressive pointing out of something where there wasn't a necessity. They were a precursor to pauldrons. Did you not read the part where I said examples for tournaments? Seeing as they weren't going for kills, they were purely decorative. The only reason *some* academics maintain they were only ever decorative is because there are references to them being *sometimes* made of parchment. Also, rawhide (which is just untreated skin, regardless of moisture) is pretty tough, especially when dried out... Which is why shields got faced with and rimmed with it. Zulu shields were just hide and stopped bullets. Also parchment is more flexible than leather. Which, given the placement of them, flexibility is a must, seeing as they cover you from neck to shoulder. But, in saying all that... Parchment still wasn't the go-to for actual combat. See the OP, where I said that.
SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger Didn't mean it as an insult, but it was indeed intended to be aggressive, I was just pointing out it is animal hide as to bring in comparison to leather, but I admit, it is also due to a uncertainty of what that you actually knew what parchment is, as you considering wood decoration to be armor in the 13-14th century Europe, which is when ailettes were used for about one generation before the practice was abandoned, which fit the pattern of something that only a fashion. And they were not precursor to pauldrons, as that role go to spaulders and besagew, on top of pauldrons development requiring cuirass to first appear, by which point the practice of ailettes was already abandoned. Ailettes are flat most of the time, flexibility is of no importance. Of course in more decorative example they could be given a form, in which case parchment could be a very good choice, as you can easily give it very elaborated pattern as the varnish will take care of making it hold it.
"Cant see shit" seems to be the theme for basically every single helmet you've worn thats properly enclosed your face. But helmets that fully cover your face and probably make it hard to see as a result had been in use for a long, long time. Surely it must be an acceptable sacrafice, at least in battle, or at least the way the people wearing them were fightin in battle anyways.
Don't forget that all these helmets he's worn so far were generic items, and weren't fitted to his particular head. If someone could afford such a helmet, they could probably also afford a couple hours at the local blacksmith to fit it to his head. That wouldn't eliminate the inherent limitations of the helmet, but should at least solve the problem of "vision ports are too far from eye".
I'd rather say that Lloyd is being overly picky. I wore several helmets and while they do impede your vision and hearing, you're getting adapted to that quite easily if instead of whining you just practice with it a little bit.
インフィニチキウィ First helmet I used (borrowed it off a friend for HEMA) was a great helm with _terrible_ vision, but I just got used to it. I don't actually mind having a narrow field of vision, but I suppose being in a battle with many people would be very different to a one-on-one duel.
I must say I agree with the other sentiments here, but it must also be pointed out that these large, fully-face-enclosing helms were, as I understand it, usually used only during the charge and the arrow-storm. Once a person had come into close combat, they would usually lift or even remove that pesky visor in order to fight more freely. In the case of the great helm, I have heard of people taking it off in close combat and relying on the mail and cap or bassinet they wore underneath. At least that is my understanding of it. I may yet be wrong.
Simon Whittle I think you're right there. If you have a look at several different helmets, including armets, pigface and Klappvisor bascinets (the type shown in the video) and possibly others, they have easily removable visors. Although, I do not believe they ever wore bascinets _under_ great helmets.
Lindy Beige could really hype up a visit to the museum. The only thing I see when visiting one is 'things' but Lindy Beige really shows me another view to it. I love it!
So "studded leather" is actually "internal plate"? ...suddenly "studded leather" just became a lot cooler. More subtle and less obvious about its defensive potential.
kimarous I don'T think it would be more subtle. If you were in a battle and your enemy seesthat you have leather gloves with a lot of rivets, they would certainly know that there are metal plates underneath it. After all, as Linybeige said, there was no such thing as studded leather gauntlets.
Sammy9262 well you "could" wear studded leather as a bluff. if the enemy sees a lot of rivets and assumes there are metal plates underneath then they will not bother striking their, even tho there may ore may not actually be metal plates underneath. BUT this is a really really stupid strategy
Sammy9262 I meant more from an aesthetic perspective, not a tactical one. Should have clarified that. I'm not expecting anyone to fall for a "ha ha, I was better protected all along" surprise.
kimarous One can think of situations where that would be well applied. Intimidation. Showing you have more plate armoured men than the opponent. Many a battle have been won this way, and to be precise, by proxy. When you have neutral or undecided parties that might partake in a war, using such tricks to convince them to join you/not join the opponent could be the decisive factor. While one would quickly notice if it were just leather and rivets due to the lacking stiffness, using wood or simmilar material instead of the metal base would provide genuiune looking armor. A good analogy would be fake planes/tanks used to fool satelite or spy drone surveilence.
I always wear ragged rags on top of my Heavenforged truesilver plate armor. I like the suprised look when their weapons shatter on impact with 'mere rags' :P
As to the heavy kettle hat, my armoursmith (yes I have an armoursmith), who is also a HEMA fighter, says a heavy helmet is always preferrable to a light helmet, when it comes to how a blow to the head will affect everything it is built to protect (e.g. your skull). The higher mass inertia will require a much stronger blow to set the helm in motion, while a lighter helmet might give you a concussion just from a friendly stroke. For the same reason he recommends using a softer steel for a helmet that might bend, rather than hardened steel that will stay in shape but send the full force of a blow straight to your skull.
I'm going to start walking into museums now using that very quote at the end. Probably to a very befuddled crowd. "It's a museum, come on! Give me information!"
im guessing the kettle hat would have had some padding, but I would also bet it is supposed to hang low on your head. if you look at similar helmets in literature, and later iterations like the brodie, you can see a lot of examples where the wearer was barely peaking out from under it.
Red Claw Right. It should offer coverage but I suppose an advantage of that helmet is visibility, so to have it too low over the eyes starts to degrade that advantage, especially considering the arming cap he had on already.
@DrIvanRadosivic yeah that's why there are so many documented examples and evidence of leather armor. oh wait there aren't. ffs what is armor base even supposed to mean
I may have said this already when I first saw this video when it came out, but since it's popped up in my feed again, those gauntlets are beautiful. I'd love to get a pair like that some day.
And here I thought I was the only one who absolutely hated cabochon decoration, many of my teachers used to gush over its intricacy and style for its time....you’ve made me feel a bit better Lindy, thx
Wait, so if it looks like studded leather armor, why do we not just assume that what the actors are tearing is this thing and be done with it? It isn't made correctly, but looks close enough so...
I’m this deep into the treasure trove of the Lindy back catalogue. Its getting me through a pandemic, no less. Also, the levitating button joke is the funniest thing on youtube.
The craftsmanship of the Cabachon is amazing, though. The irregularity of the stones makes it feel assymetrical and 'off', but also more organic and natural.
Wow. For some reason it never clicked in my head why studded leather armor could never work practically until you mentioned it here. And yet all it took was you saying it was a ludicrous idea, for my mind to suddenly connect all the dots on why it's impractical.
Do people give you weird looks when they see a lone man putting on various helmets and remarking to his camera "I approve of this one" whilst giving shifty sideways glances?
Lloyddd, I have a question for you on the subject of studded leather armour. If a sword blade hits a round stud, will this not change edge alignment? Is a small change in edge alignment insignificant as to the depth of the cut?
A rounded stud would direct a blade towards the edge of the stud, just like the boss in the centre of viking age shields. The difference is that with a shield this works rather well, directing the blow to the edge of the shield where the force is dissipated better. With a stud on a piece of leather, it would only serve to guide the blade towards the leather, in which place you might as well have just not bothered with the studs at all. And that's all assuming that the studs are going to have a significant effect on the blade's trajectory at all. Going back to the shield, the boss is supported by a reasonably thick piece of wood. When the blade hits it the boss will stay put. However, the leather the stud is attached to wouldn't give it nearly as much support, and the stud would just be pushed out of the way by the blade.
According to Collins gem Ancient Rome on the subject of Roman legionaries 'leather strips studded with metal protected the groin' so that has to count as studded leather armour in actual historical usage.
The eye slots were intentionally devised that way, narrow eye slots, far from your face ment that arrows were less like to get into your eyws when you are charging into the enemy formation. you would raised the visor in melee combat in order to see well and breathe. That vendel helmet imo is a bit rubbish, the eye openings are unnecessarily big. A spear thrust would be guided towards your eyes or stab your straight into the eye. I'm really jealous that you got to handle such well made guantlets. That reminds, me, you said during your crusader helmet video that you would make a video about ditching great helmets, are you still planning on making a video on that?
I shot one the same day, but when I watched the footage back, I didn't like it. It was a ten-minute ramble which had no spaces in it for me to get the scissors in. I plan to reshoot it one day.
I think the vendel helmet was designed to protect your eye sockets (from like, a sideways cut, and that's it). Nasal helms were around in the same period, so methinks the smiths in vendel territories were just experimenting.
Philip Dyer Also wit that kind of helm especially, a good fit is paramount. I know people who fight in that kind of visor in the SCA, IMCF, & whatnot and have no problem seeing well enough. Part if it is learned but a big part is getting the fit right. Plus the visor lock could have bee a strap, pressure lock, spring, etc However, yeah breathing in a helm can be a hell of a thing in full contact fighting.
Great video! You often pick up on tiny little details that I havent been able to find elsewhere so thanks for that! In terms of how ill fitting and awkward the armour was, I think we as outside the box thinking, modern people forget what an absolute hassle it must have been for someone to decide a certain little tweak might be handy and then invest the time and money in getting an armourer to make it, test it, train with it, tweak it again....these thoughts may have occured over the course of a campaign when such things werent an option and then you get home and "sod it! Lets get drunk!" The other thing that anyone with a military background will be very familiar with is something to the gist of- "Shut up. Everyone else is using the same thing so get on with it!" The first lot of Osprey armour used in Afghan by Brit forces was notorious for not having enough pouches and flapping open if you put too much weight on the cheap velcro.
If you are playing an RPG with studded leather and you wanted to pretend they meant plates riveted to leather... how would you rank it compared to leather and chain mail? :)
Brigandine is better than chainmail. Brigandine and splint armor are usually combined with chainmail and gambeson or leather though (EDIT: Actually, I don't know if this true). Good for parrying deep impacts. Splint was what was shown in the video (riveted to a leather frontage; giving the 'studded leather' look, although less flexible piece-by-piece than actual studded leather - the upside being that splint actually protects you and is thus 'armor' rather than fashion accessory). I think the leather frontage of medieval armor is what confused Gary Gygax (or whoever) when he first wrote studded leather into D&D (first edition? the white box? whatever you nerds call it). Brigandine on the other hand, would have more of a cloth frontage and backing. The difference between brigandine and splint (reading wiki here), is that splint is more longitudal than brigandine. Brigandine is more square. Lamellar is connected more tightly together (I think). Then there's lorica segmentata (or banded armor), which curves across the surface it's protecting. Then there's scale armor, which is fish or leaf shaped scales that drape over the wearer's body. Then there's plated chain, which is plates attached directly over the chain, favoured in russia and persia (I think). Then there's actual plate armor that everyone thinks of, which is molded into a single shape (or a bunch of larger shapes) that specifically conform to different parts of the wearer's body. Such could be greaves, or lobster-tail gauntlets, or any old helmet (formed in a single piece; some helmets are formed from multiple pieces, I think), a visor, breast plate, back plate, etc. Each piece is given more unique shape than just a simple square or 'splint'. And then there's full plate, which is all those pieces of plate armor being connected together in a lot of places, with hinged and pivoting joints and what not, to allow for the best possible coverage. These are ALL forms of plate armor. Confused? :D
If your RPG has Brigandine this stuff is that. Brigandine armor was generally worn over a padded jack and mail. Brigandine is a step below plate armor. Ranking real late medieval armor. Padded Jack, Mail over Padded Jack, Brigandine over Mail and Padded Jack, Partial Plate which could include a Brigandine over Mail and a Jack, Full Plate. Brigandines provide almost as good of protection and a Cuirass but are somewhat flexible so more comfortable to wear they were also generally cheaper in the late Medieval period. You may have noticed I did not mention leather armor. The truth is, for the most part, leather armor is no more real than studded leather. There was boiled leather but that isn't supple like most people think of leather armor. It was hard stiff and quite heavy and not actually very common. Far more common and closer to what we think of as leather armor would be a padded jack with a leather outer layer.
That poorly-fitting kettle hat - I couldn't see well from the video, but wouldn't it have some generous padding on the inside, and if it's a bit too big, people could just add more padding until it fit?
I suppose that with lots more padding (I thought I saw some in there, but I wasn't sure, nor about the thickness), it might be a bit more uncomfortable during the summer sun.
God damn the more of this channel i watch the better it gets Honestly found you off-putting at first but i really enjoy all the information (and warranted complaints) you provide.
I wonder if that style of jewel use is so ugly to us because it reminds us so heavily of those big fake plastic jewels that encrusted the cheap, gold-painted toys of our youths?
You know, I just treat all D&D Armor types as basically it's whatever within theme. So 'studded leather' is any sort of light armor that isn't as protective as a chain shirt but is more protective than basic leather or padding. So maybe you have leather with some reinforcing plates or other bits, or even a light brigandine or jack.
I've actually seen reconstructors using face protection helmets with the same system (being mounted above the eyeline) and they used a pair of leather straps attached to it, which they tied on the around the helmet to lock the plate either in opened or closed possition.
1:34 the clap visor bassinet helmet would historically had much stiffer hinge has to prevent it from flopping around and stay closed or open, and if it got to lose over time from being warn down (like the musume example, wich might I add that level of floppyness would simply not be considered exeptible by any man at arms or knight) you simply would just replace it with a new pin produced by your local blacksmith.
I just love the Scandinavian museums. They got the most amazing collections at the Swedish Naval and Army museum of Stockholm and it was no charge when I was there the last time with my Swedish girlfriend.
If you want a historically accurate armor to put between leather and mail, I would suggest lamellar. Lamellar is very similar to scale armor, and while it was sometime made out of metal plates, more often than not, they were made from harder than leather natural materials such as horn, bone, tusks, turtle shell, and yes even "wood" as Lindybeige suggests. Another approach is to differentiate hardened leather vs soft leather. Hardened leather armor is made out of plates that are treated in much the same way as the rawhide bones you might give your dog whereas the soft leather class of armor would be more representative of the flexible leathers you would normally make clothing out of.
Though I had previously written on your Facebook page regarding flaws of Wooden Armor, there was one thing that occurred to me after rewatching your Greaves video. Perhaps Wooden Armor DID exist in many cultures, but the problem was the fact that wood rots. Much like how Iron rusts away. Makes finding examples very difficult.
A/ studded leather armor is very effective for what it was invented for; wrecking a motorcycle on a paved road, so you slide across it with the abrasion kept off your flesh. B/ some later fighting gloves for the left hand did have mail palms used for parrying/blade grabbing.
Haha - maybe I should be slighlty offended, being a Swede and hearing some of your comments. But instead I feel rather honoured that you took time visit us in this forsaken nation lol. The misconceptions about studded leather armour is probably something we have to live with for generations. Mostly because it is so deep rooted in RPG games and that leather armour many times are styled in a way many people find more appealing than "real" armour. thanks for the video :D
Wow, those reproduction gauntlets are amazing! The fact that they had those beautifully hand stitched gloves as the base for the armor instead of cheap modern welding gloves from a local hardware store, speaks to the quality. Id love to own those!
We've found welding gloves too thick and too stiff for sword handling. Better to outfit yourself with supple leather drovers' gloves, and if you want a gauntlet cuff, cut your own in matching leather and sew that to the cuff end of the drovers' glove.
Any suit of armor worn by knights that incorporated a helmet, left them with a disadvantage that could have been used to exploit them. Duck slightly and side step when close to a knight, and you're free to get behind them and kill them, because they wont see where you went
The reason the visors were lose is so that a soldier could quickly raise and lower his visor to shield him from arrows and to be able to actually see what's around him.
The myth of studded leather armor comes from leather armor with parts plate or chain actually where the outer layer was leather. It can realistically be listed between leather and chainmail because it's leather with plates of metal or sheets of chainmail attached to parts which often get struck but no joint protection as would be the case with scale, chain and plate.
Awww man! I was there yesterday! God damn! God fucking damn it, we could've met Lindybeige! I feel amazing you're wearing the same helmet I was wearing.
the people who make the "studden leather" armour are usually trying to reproduce the look of the "brigandine" armour. which is leather armour with steel plates rivited inside. the people who make RPG games probably saw the costumes and thought "oh it's leather with studs" so called it studded leather without doing any of the research (and considering that many RPGs were first made at a time before the internet research wasn't that easy for them. some RPGs have corrected this by including brigandine and jack of plate armour. both were designed as lighter armour either for pesant infantry (as it was cheep to make) or to wear when out and about among the lower classes (kind of like how some people these days wear conceilable body armour) many were even designed to be fashionable for everyday wear outside of the battlefield
You can date the collar (comparative dating to other collars worked in the same era) using the "gillette " rule. Razors had one blade for the first twenty thousand years then the number of blades increased by one every "time period" and the period decreased by half each time the number was incresed and so on and so on
I believe that on the bascinet, the pin on that particular example is too loose. On other examples of Klappvisor and Hounskull bascinets they have no additional fixtures, but it is the tension of the hinge that keeps the visor up or down.
a teacher in elementary school told us that peasants forced in war that were poor often wore studden leather armor filled with some liquid. i never thought it would be too effective nor efficient with the terrible mobility caused by the liquid that would just flow off when the leather is cut through anyway, but teacher told me she's seen examples in musems and even got hit with something with it on to demonstrate...
This is the description for the studded leather armour from Baldur's Gate: "Studded leather armour has little in common with normal leather armour. While leather armour is a hardened shell, studded leather armour is soft and supple with hundreds of metal rivets affixed. The rivets are so close together that they form a flexible coating of hard metal that turns aside slashing and cutting attacks. The soft leather backing is little more than a means of securing the rivets in place." It sounds reasonable, though the "coating of hard metal" part suggests to me that you can't see the leather beneath at all, so it is obviously not a description of the studded leather armour you see in movies.
Wow, those gauntlets are beatiful! And they seem so well articulated, almost comfortable. A far cry from the later examples I've seen and tried, all of which seem stiff and limiting, though they propably would protect you better from blunt trauma than these ones would.
You're quite right in mentioning that the visor claps around, That style of helm is called a Klappvisor bascinet from Germany. One can see where the name comes from =]
As a leather worker, I know people like 3 dimensions and glitz. Rivets, done properly, can make drab looking gauntlets look better. Fine line between rivets and studding. I guess that is where the concept of conchos in Southwestern U.S. apparel came about.
have you been to any other museums here in Sweden? like the one with the Vasa-ship? I think the museum you visited now has a viking (VIKINGS!) exhibit right now. My girlfriend is from Gotland (where Visby is) and they got a museum there where I got to try on the armor that probably goes with that brim-styled hat. It was sturdy and made out of boiled leather and plate. If I remember correctly a coiled head piece was supposed to go under the over sized helmet.
Mr. Lindybeige, I totally understand your question at the beginning about visor locks. I had the same question once! They weren’t always like that, and the ones that were had a good reason. Check out Knyght Errant’s video on visor locks for an in depth explanation.
reminds me of this one guy i know who said knights would always slip in mud because of the flat metal plates they'd have on the soles of their sabatons and i was like m8, who'se gonna stab you in the sole of your feet.
Laugh all you want; I wouldn't want to take my chances with all those landmines lying around.
CountArtha true again
it's your achilles heel! oh or sole?
A caltrop might.
NonDeUn damn, better wear those plated sole sabaton
Ah, so that's the source of the studded-leather-armor misconception; rivets for plates showing on the outside.
I tend to think that rather than misconception, it was originally a movie technique to make cheap armour that looked like something appropriate, while not overly weighing down the actors. Much in the same way that many movies use knitted "chain" armour.
Perhaps the misconception came later on, reinforced by role playing games.
morallyambiguousnet it also comes from chinese armour as well or indian mughal armour, padded armour full of brass riivets known as coat of 1000 nails. the chinese armour was, like the gauntlets, initially lined with plates, but as they used guns, they kept the coats, but left out the plates just leaving the studs....
elgostine hey what self-respecting warrior would refuse himself some chrome?
Ragimund VonWallat
Probably because the leather served to protect the iron plates from the elements and general wear and tear. The real reason it existed is because at the time metallurgical techniques hadn't advanced to the point that they could make large even pieces of shaped steel.
imperialus11 Having the ability to do something doesn't speak to the economy of doing a thing. Making a bunch of small plates and then riveting them onto a jack is far less costly and time consuming than making formed, tempered plate armour. When you need to equip a few hundred or thousand fighters, economy definitely plays into it.
In one video - can't remember who it was, maybe Matt Easton - it was said that the visors of helmet were probably closed only in an advance on the enemy, who was firing missiles on you. Or also in an approach to a manned wall in a siege. But in close combat, they opened their visor, and thought without it. Because actually seeing your enemy was more important than that extra protection. Many medieval artworks also show combat with open visors.
That's exactly how I think they must have fought - it's the only way it makes sense.
Then again, there are older, crusader-era full-face helmets that don't have a visor - I imagine melee fighting in those was a bitch...
lalucre1803 But then why was there no nose- or cheek-protection underneath, to leave the face not completely unprotected? There'd certainly be the room for it, at least with the displayed helmet...
Zombigotron You're refering to those pot-like great-helmets? Well, they do have a tendency to look oddly oversized. What if they wore a different helmet underneath and simply threw off the great-helmet once they made it to melee range?
MadnerKami
Yes, that's what I was referring. I thought about that, but it just sounds so silly to do so...
MadnerKami
I do not have the answers to your question. ;) I do think, however, that this theory is sound. Visibility and awareness, i guess, is more immportant than a visor in close combat. Having a protected face, but not knowing what your opponent is doing, will get you killed for sure.
I'm wondering if this was analogous to tank warfare, where there's long been the question of whether the vehicle commander should remain safely buttoned up or be out of the hatch for situational awareness. I'm not sure how much better current armour might be, but through the 20th century the consensus seemed to be that an exposed commander made the vehicle much more effective, though obviously with a degree of personal risk.
I remember the french translation of the D&D-based video game Baldur's Gate renamed the studded leather armor "brigandine". I can imagine the translators trying and failing to find the "proper translation" of a type of armour that didn't exist, giving up and replacing it with something proper that at least somewhat looked like the in-game icon of the item.
brigandine would be heavy armour though
@@Liam_The_Great Not in like, Final Fantasy.
@@Liam_The_Great Brigandine is not an armour in core AD&D 2nd Edition core rules which is what Baldur's Gate is based on. So the translators are picking a term not otherwise in the game. (Brigandine almost certainly appears in some obscure supplement).
@@darthkek1953 Well luckily studded leather doesn’t exist so shush
@@charlottewalnut3118 Studded leather most certainly exist. I know studs in leather whose leather is studded.
It's not setting/period-accurate fantasy/medieval armour though. I do admit that. But you could do a Called Shot to the gaps in the armour: neck, arm-pits, crotch, etc.
Those last few items were clearly looted from a Dwemer ruin...
BAH! Bollocks!
The Dwemer would never make something so pointless and impractical!
AND HIDEOUS!
>x/
Skyrim Lies in Norway, NOT Sweden...You take A12 Just north of Oslo, and theres Windhelm!
Carolingians are dwarves confirmed.
Unmodded dwemer stuff maybe? :D
Anders Hoegild Well the Dwemer had cities all over cyrro.... i mean Westero...... i mean the world.
The fact that the steel splints are on the inside is good news for costume/re-enactment folks on a budget/time crunch. It looks like studded leather, even if there's more to it. They could just leave them out, say they're there, and no one would be the wiser.
Therefore, every time I do see studded leather in a movie, I'm going to just assume there's some steel plates underneath. Even if they say otherwise. Just to try and keep my pedantic brain from nitpicking the movie to pieces.
So.......... Brigandine?
There needs to be something to give the piece structure and rigidity, else it's just floppy like clothes.
But you're right, nobody's going to see it so it needn't be steel plates. plastic would probably work just fine.
Doesn’t sound right
@@sergarlantyrell7847 Maybe they should have some plastic or aluminum plates to make it look the part while being light for the actor and less expensive for the studio.
@@conn0rized292 the difficulty is mostly getting the material covering the right shape to look like it's containing armour plates.
Honestly though, once they develop the material pattern for 1, they could just copy it and trim it down to fit better.
I want those gauntlets
Will nonya anyone found if someone was selling them?
Darkwood has a pair of them. I know a few other people make them, but this design in particular seems to have an issue with people getting fingers broken in them.
Not a glove you want to be slapped with to be challenged for a dual...
trollforge Have you seen "Robin Hood - Men in Tights?" :-]
Iron Pirate Hahaha, that part was great!
Iron Pirate ruclips.net/video/hjE2sxCQ_rU/видео.html" I accept!"
Oy Dave! *slaps Dave with a gauntlet, knocking half his teeth out*
I challenge you to a du-el!!
They are fairly heavy... for a glove, definitely feel like you could knock someone's teeth out.
I wonder what kind of inaccurate depictions of modern military technology there'll be a few hundred years from now.
probably Rambo like stuff.
+blackkakari
TV shows?
+blackkakari CURVE THE BULLET! haha
Wow, I've never thought of that
+blackkakari COD, Battlefield, etc.
How could you not think that cabochon is beautiful?! Its very imperfections reflect the nature of the procuring of the gems, with soldiers, not with trade.
That relic covered in stones does have one practical advantage: if you use it as a Holy Hand Grenade, there would be plenty of flying fragments.
"And the Lord spake, saying, First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four, shalt thou not count, neither count thou two excepting that thou proceed to three. Five is right out, once the number 3, being the third number be reached, then lobbist thou holy hand grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in my sight shall snuff it. Amen"
"This is a gold reliquary crown. All craftscarolingianship is of the highest quality. It menaces with spikes of gold, agate cabochons, pearl cabochons, quartz cabochons, carnelian cabochons and tourmaline cabochons and is encircled with bands of gold. It is decorated with human bone. On the item is an image of Swedes in graphite. The Swedes are laughing. The artwork relates to the looting of the Saint Elizabeth Reliquary crown in a time before time."
And now I have the strange urge to play some DF.
_craftscarolingianship_ omg
Best comment ever
This guy rimworlds.
Dwarf Fortress!
>Implying wood armor didn't exist.
I wore cardboard armor in Iraq. The modern derivative.
How would you rate its stopping power?
KaletheQuick Styrofoam is where it's at.
DerOrk it stopped my sergeant dead in his tracks.
'Tis' but a flesh wound!'
KaletheQuick That's coooooooooooooooooooooooold.
Wooden armour existed in Japan apparently, also Siberian natives used it to fortify their shoulder armour according to wiki. I imagine it was used among primitive tribes and so forth too, as similar materials are used.
Incoming video on studded leather armor?
I've been wondering about doing a video on studded leather for years. There are a few types of real armour that might be mistaken for it, but beyond that it would be just five minutes of a man saying 'It didn't exist and is a daft idea'. One day, perhaps.
Lindybeige Even as a layman, as I looked up what studded leather is I was like: "How does this help?".
What would you recommend as a replacement in D&D (aside wood armor :P)?
Maybe not just studded then, perhaps a general video on armor misconceptions (I know you already have a few). I can't tell you how many people seem to think that armor such as in the Elder Scrolls V is actually practical (oh, yes, I'm not even joking.).
Nicholas Musser Compared to some fantasy armors it probably is because at least you could actually wear it.
DivineChronometer
True, but I HATE how the modern games do lazy armour animation. If you look closely, they've just replaced the torso model with the armour model, without even bothering to re-rig it. This is fine for leathers or hides- even okay for mailles. But it makes the plate armours flex and bend as though they were skin-tight. There's no hang or rigidity to it.
When I was little, the local museum here was quite large, it had a big section of taxidermied animals inside little "habitats", and an entire 2nd floor to viking age artifacts. For many years I didn't go there, and in that time they expanded to a 2nd building, and I was always curious to this new and expanded museum. I went back earlier this year, and all the taxidermied animals had been cramped together into a single room, all the archaeology into another small cramped room, and the rest was a massively vast cafeteria.
Those gauntlets are awesome. I want them!
As for the visor question, I think later helms had pin fastenings to keep the visors raised or lowered. Lacking that, I can only suppose that the hinges were much tighter than in the reproduction, relying on friction to keep in place.
The modern-made Grettir gauntlet approximates the look of the Wisby type. A few of these were found in the burials, which were hasty, after that 1361 battle. These hurried burials are believed to represent genuine examples of 'coats of plates.'
That jewel thing is pretty hideous. "Yeah I'd like a big lump of gold and jewels and whatever. I want there to be no mistake about how rich and important I am."
Karolingians were posers... :) Charlemagne the pimp!
Nazdreg1 for a poser to be crowned augustus of the west...must be the most overacheiver in the history of poser
True that, it is quite doubtful that a strong loyal army stands behind a wnnabe (which was the instrument to put pressure on the pope (not as a threatening but rather protecting force though)).
danehb89 Nazdreg1 Ragimund VonWallat In case you guys missed it, that was a RELIQUARY. It was a crown to put on the relics of Elisabeth of Schonau. It symbolizes the crowns one receives when in heaven (such as , a crown of martyrdom, a crown of chastity) it was never worn by anyone living. Nothing to show off, it is a piece of reverence to go with the holy relics.
So relics are not for showing off right?
I mean why are they all so nicely and artfully stored and why is it important that everyone can see them?
If relics are purely out of reverence they could be stored modestly out of public attention and you go there everyday to pray. This is reverence.
The other thing is showing off reverence which was a cool trait back in those days.
Let me compare it to modern times. You are a big fan of a certain celebrity and try to get a signed poster of him/her or whatever. Why the signing? And why do you hang it at the most prominent spot at home? Out of respect? No. You do it because you can show it to other people and be proud of it and of course also to invite other people to respect the celebrity as well. Same thing with relics.
No studded leather armor? What the hell is my ranger going to wear now?
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wear the scale mail or the half plate lol. become a beefy ranger
Roger Sy Receive penalties to dual wielding AND lose move silently bonus? Never!
U dont need stealth haha all u need is to be a semi less effective tank
Roger Sy ha!
Go with mirthral breast plate. Expensive, but worth it. Only a -1 armour check penalty.
Lindybeige actually, ailettes from the early Crusade period (can't remember the years precisely) were often made of wood, or metal-plated wood (with tournament examples being cloth and parchment). So wooden armour could be a thing.
Also, toss out RPGs that suggest only bad shields are made of wood.
You do know parchment is animal skin and not wood based like paper ? So who would use parchment over leather for armor, as parchment aren't tanned, thus less durable to wear and tear. Also parchment just return to a rawhide state if it get wet.
As for aillette they are decorative add-on, thus why they could be made of parchment, easier to paint them.
Where did I say parchment wasn't animal hide? Sorry, but did you just need to show off that you knew that, or...? Just an overly aggressive pointing out of something where there wasn't a necessity.
They were a precursor to pauldrons. Did you not read the part where I said examples for tournaments? Seeing as they weren't going for kills, they were purely decorative. The only reason *some* academics maintain they were only ever decorative is because there are references to them being *sometimes* made of parchment.
Also, rawhide (which is just untreated skin, regardless of moisture) is pretty tough, especially when dried out... Which is why shields got faced with and rimmed with it. Zulu shields were just hide and stopped bullets.
Also parchment is more flexible than leather. Which, given the placement of them, flexibility is a must, seeing as they cover you from neck to shoulder.
But, in saying all that... Parchment still wasn't the go-to for actual combat. See the OP, where I said that.
Seriously, it's like you didn't read the post at all.
SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger Didn't mean it as an insult, but it was indeed intended to be aggressive, I was just pointing out it is animal hide as to bring in comparison to leather, but I admit, it is also due to a uncertainty of what that you actually knew what parchment is, as you considering wood decoration to be armor in the 13-14th century Europe, which is when ailettes were used for about one generation before the practice was abandoned, which fit the pattern of something that only a fashion.
And they were not precursor to pauldrons, as that role go to spaulders and besagew, on top of pauldrons development requiring cuirass to first appear, by which point the practice of ailettes was already abandoned.
Ailettes are flat most of the time, flexibility is of no importance. Of course in more decorative example they could be given a form, in which case parchment could be a very good choice, as you can easily give it very elaborated pattern as the varnish will take care of making it hold it.
Some say that aillettes were not armour at all, but for displaying heraldic insignia.
"Cant see shit" seems to be the theme for basically every single helmet you've worn thats properly enclosed your face. But helmets that fully cover your face and probably make it hard to see as a result had been in use for a long, long time. Surely it must be an acceptable sacrafice, at least in battle, or at least the way the people wearing them were fightin in battle anyways.
Don't forget that all these helmets he's worn so far were generic items, and weren't fitted to his particular head. If someone could afford such a helmet, they could probably also afford a couple hours at the local blacksmith to fit it to his head.
That wouldn't eliminate the inherent limitations of the helmet, but should at least solve the problem of "vision ports are too far from eye".
I'd rather say that Lloyd is being overly picky. I wore several helmets and while they do impede your vision and hearing, you're getting adapted to that quite easily if instead of whining you just practice with it a little bit.
インフィニチキウィ First helmet I used (borrowed it off a friend for HEMA) was a great helm with _terrible_ vision, but I just got used to it. I don't actually mind having a narrow field of vision, but I suppose being in a battle with many people would be very different to a one-on-one duel.
I must say I agree with the other sentiments here, but it must also be pointed out that these large, fully-face-enclosing helms were, as I understand it, usually used only during the charge and the arrow-storm. Once a person had come into close combat, they would usually lift or even remove that pesky visor in order to fight more freely. In the case of the great helm, I have heard of people taking it off in close combat and relying on the mail and cap or bassinet they wore underneath. At least that is my understanding of it. I may yet be wrong.
Simon Whittle
I think you're right there. If you have a look at several different helmets, including armets, pigface and Klappvisor bascinets (the type shown in the video) and possibly others, they have easily removable visors. Although, I do not believe they ever wore bascinets _under_ great helmets.
The pre viking helmet at 2:18 reminds me of that first helmet he ever made
1:30
lol that silly helmet thing in monty python and the holy grail.
Lindy Beige could really hype up a visit to the museum. The only thing I see when visiting one is 'things' but Lindy Beige really shows me another view to it. I love it!
Could it be that the kettle helmet would fit on your head if you wore your padded coif under it?
jacob robertson exactly my conclusion
He was, did you not see the two pieces of cloth under the helmet?
he was wearing his coif
I was hoping for more armor vids. Thanks Lindy!
So "studded leather" is actually "internal plate"? ...suddenly "studded leather" just became a lot cooler. More subtle and less obvious about its defensive potential.
kimarous I don'T think it would be more subtle. If you were in a battle and your enemy seesthat you have leather gloves with a lot of rivets, they would certainly know that there are metal plates underneath it. After all, as Linybeige said, there was no such thing as studded leather gauntlets.
Sammy9262
well you "could" wear studded leather as a bluff. if the enemy sees a lot of rivets and assumes there are metal plates underneath then they will not bother striking their, even tho there may ore may not actually be metal plates underneath. BUT this is a really really stupid strategy
Sammy9262 I meant more from an aesthetic perspective, not a tactical one. Should have clarified that. I'm not expecting anyone to fall for a "ha ha, I was better protected all along" surprise.
kimarous One can think of situations where that would be well applied. Intimidation. Showing you have more plate armoured men than the opponent. Many a battle have been won this way, and to be precise, by proxy. When you have neutral or undecided parties that might partake in a war, using such tricks to convince them to join you/not join the opponent could be the decisive factor. While one would quickly notice if it were just leather and rivets due to the lacking stiffness, using wood or simmilar material instead of the metal base would provide genuiune looking armor. A good analogy would be fake planes/tanks used to fool satelite or spy drone surveilence.
I always wear ragged rags on top of my Heavenforged truesilver plate armor.
I like the suprised look when their weapons shatter on impact with 'mere rags'
:P
As to the heavy kettle hat, my armoursmith (yes I have an armoursmith), who is also a HEMA fighter, says a heavy helmet is always preferrable to a light helmet, when it comes to how a blow to the head will affect everything it is built to protect (e.g. your skull). The higher mass inertia will require a much stronger blow to set the helm in motion, while a lighter helmet might give you a concussion just from a friendly stroke. For the same reason he recommends using a softer steel for a helmet that might bend, rather than hardened steel that will stay in shape but send the full force of a blow straight to your skull.
I'm going to start walking into museums now using that very quote at the end. Probably to a very befuddled crowd. "It's a museum, come on! Give me information!"
IT IS SIMPLY AMAZING TO SEE SOMEONE WHO DOES WHAT HE DOES BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE DOES AND LIKES WHAT HE DOES! YOU ARE SOMEONE LINDYBAIGE'S OWNER!!
im guessing the kettle hat would have had some padding, but I would also bet it is supposed to hang low on your head. if you look at similar helmets in literature, and later iterations like the brodie, you can see a lot of examples where the wearer was barely peaking out from under it.
***** I agree, but I still think that one was too big. He was wearing an arming cap with it, and even then it was too wide to be comfortable.
Red Claw Right. It should offer coverage but I suppose an advantage of that helmet is visibility, so to have it too low over the eyes starts to degrade that advantage, especially considering the arming cap he had on already.
Oh Lindy, your videos always make me smile. They educate me as well. Huzzah!
Can you do a video on boiled leather armor please.
it wasn't used and if it was, it definitely wasn't common. probably because leather was expensive and doesn't make good armor
@DrIvanRadosivic yeah that's why there are so many documented examples and evidence of leather armor. oh wait there aren't. ffs what is armor base even supposed to mean
@@hdiver3834
Armor base is a bullshit made by videogames to make armor more defeatable
I may have said this already when I first saw this video when it came out, but since it's popped up in my feed again, those gauntlets are beautiful. I'd love to get a pair like that some day.
1:58 Mediaval TF2 Soldier...
And here I thought I was the only one who absolutely hated cabochon decoration, many of my teachers used to gush over its intricacy and style for its time....you’ve made me feel a bit better Lindy, thx
Wait, so if it looks like studded leather armor, why do we not just assume that what the actors are tearing is this thing and be done with it? It isn't made correctly, but looks close enough so...
I’m this deep into the treasure trove of the Lindy back catalogue. Its getting me through a pandemic, no less. Also, the levitating button joke is the funniest thing on youtube.
Bacon Armor would be the best because you could runaway from the battle into the woods and eat bacon for days.
Those gauntlets look awesome. I've also always been a fan of that style of bascinet. Great stuff in this video
"Wooden"
Stone armor! We need STONE armor.
Apparently it existed, although I'm not convinced it was actually for fighting.
*cough cough* havel the rock *cough cough*
cough cough THE WALL cough cough
The craftsmanship of the Cabachon is amazing, though. The irregularity of the stones makes it feel assymetrical and 'off', but also more organic and natural.
I expect that the kettle hat was missing the padded coif.
He is wearing one, it probably isn't thick enough though.
Wow. For some reason it never clicked in my head why studded leather armor could never work practically until you mentioned it here. And yet all it took was you saying it was a ludicrous idea, for my mind to suddenly connect all the dots on why it's impractical.
Do people give you weird looks when they see a lone man putting on various helmets and remarking to his camera "I approve of this one" whilst giving shifty sideways glances?
those gauntlets at 1:00 are so freaking awesome. I would love a pair of those. so cool.
Lloyddd, I have a question for you on the subject of studded leather armour. If a sword blade hits a round stud, will this not change edge alignment? Is a small change in edge alignment insignificant as to the depth of the cut?
A rounded stud would direct a blade towards the edge of the stud, just like the boss in the centre of viking age shields. The difference is that with a shield this works rather well, directing the blow to the edge of the shield where the force is dissipated better. With a stud on a piece of leather, it would only serve to guide the blade towards the leather, in which place you might as well have just not bothered with the studs at all.
And that's all assuming that the studs are going to have a significant effect on the blade's trajectory at all. Going back to the shield, the boss is supported by a reasonably thick piece of wood. When the blade hits it the boss will stay put. However, the leather the stud is attached to wouldn't give it nearly as much support, and the stud would just be pushed out of the way by the blade.
Not to mention stab wounds, that would simply result in being stabbed in a slightly different location than the intended target area.
This is a new quality of videos, very much appreciated!
According to Collins gem Ancient Rome on the subject of Roman legionaries 'leather strips studded with metal protected the groin' so that has to count as studded leather armour in actual historical usage.
1:40 gotta love the cable ties, holding the mail to the helmet
The eye slots were intentionally devised that way, narrow eye slots, far from your face ment that arrows were less like to get into your eyws when you are charging into the enemy formation. you would raised the visor in melee combat in order to see well and breathe. That vendel helmet imo is a bit rubbish, the eye openings are unnecessarily big. A spear thrust would be guided towards your eyes or stab your straight into the eye. I'm really jealous that you got to handle such well made guantlets. That reminds, me, you said during your crusader helmet video that you would make a video about ditching great helmets, are you still planning on making a video on that?
I shot one the same day, but when I watched the footage back, I didn't like it. It was a ten-minute ramble which had no spaces in it for me to get the scissors in. I plan to reshoot it one day.
I think the vendel helmet was designed to protect your eye sockets (from like, a sideways cut, and that's it). Nasal helms were around in the same period, so methinks the smiths in vendel territories were just experimenting.
Philip Dyer Also wit that kind of helm especially, a good fit is paramount. I know people who fight in that kind of visor in the SCA, IMCF, & whatnot and have no problem seeing well enough. Part if it is learned but a big part is getting the fit right.
Plus the visor lock could have bee a strap, pressure lock, spring, etc
However, yeah breathing in a helm can be a hell of a thing in full contact fighting.
The image of you peeking out from the bascinet really made my day!
Studded leather armour IS historical. The famous knight Rob Halford invented it and it is used ever since.
Great video! You often pick up on tiny little details that I havent been able to find elsewhere so thanks for that!
In terms of how ill fitting and awkward the armour was, I think we as outside the box thinking, modern people forget what an absolute hassle it must have been for someone to decide a certain little tweak might be handy and then invest the time and money in getting an armourer to make it, test it, train with it, tweak it again....these thoughts may have occured over the course of a campaign when such things werent an option and then you get home and "sod it! Lets get drunk!"
The other thing that anyone with a military background will be very familiar with is something to the gist of- "Shut up. Everyone else is using the same thing so get on with it!"
The first lot of Osprey armour used in Afghan by Brit forces was notorious for not having enough pouches and flapping open if you put too much weight on the cheap velcro.
If you are playing an RPG with studded leather and you wanted to pretend they meant plates riveted to leather... how would you rank it compared to leather and chain mail? :)
Treat as "scale mail" or "laminar armour" or "lorica segmentata" or whatever your RPG calls it.
cygil1 Lamellar armor has nothing to do with scale armor, completely different way of assembly.
Legion McRae yep, uber metal!
Brigandine is better than chainmail. Brigandine and splint armor are usually combined with chainmail and gambeson or leather though (EDIT: Actually, I don't know if this true). Good for parrying deep impacts.
Splint was what was shown in the video (riveted to a leather frontage; giving the 'studded leather' look, although less flexible piece-by-piece than actual studded leather - the upside being that splint actually protects you and is thus 'armor' rather than fashion accessory). I think the leather frontage of medieval armor is what confused Gary Gygax (or whoever) when he first wrote studded leather into D&D (first edition? the white box? whatever you nerds call it).
Brigandine on the other hand, would have more of a cloth frontage and backing.
The difference between brigandine and splint (reading wiki here), is that splint is more longitudal than brigandine. Brigandine is more square.
Lamellar is connected more tightly together (I think). Then there's lorica segmentata (or banded armor), which curves across the surface it's protecting.
Then there's scale armor, which is fish or leaf shaped scales that drape over the wearer's body.
Then there's plated chain, which is plates attached directly over the chain, favoured in russia and persia (I think).
Then there's actual plate armor that everyone thinks of, which is molded into a single shape (or a bunch of larger shapes) that specifically conform to different parts of the wearer's body. Such could be greaves, or lobster-tail gauntlets, or any old helmet (formed in a single piece; some helmets are formed from multiple pieces, I think), a visor, breast plate, back plate, etc. Each piece is given more unique shape than just a simple square or 'splint'.
And then there's full plate, which is all those pieces of plate armor being connected together in a lot of places, with hinged and pivoting joints and what not, to allow for the best possible coverage.
These are ALL forms of plate armor. Confused? :D
If your RPG has Brigandine this stuff is that. Brigandine armor was generally worn over a padded jack and mail. Brigandine is a step below plate armor.
Ranking real late medieval armor. Padded Jack, Mail over Padded Jack, Brigandine over Mail and Padded Jack, Partial Plate which could include a Brigandine over Mail and a Jack, Full Plate.
Brigandines provide almost as good of protection and a Cuirass but are somewhat flexible so more comfortable to wear they were also generally cheaper in the late Medieval period.
You may have noticed I did not mention leather armor. The truth is, for the most part, leather armor is no more real than studded leather. There was boiled leather but that isn't supple like most people think of leather armor. It was hard stiff and quite heavy and not actually very common. Far more common and closer to what we think of as leather armor would be a padded jack with a leather outer layer.
that cliffhanger to "hideous" is one of the best piece of entertainment on the internet imho, thank you sir
That poorly-fitting kettle hat - I couldn't see well from the video, but wouldn't it have some generous padding on the inside, and if it's a bit too big, people could just add more padding until it fit?
The kettle hat you see does have a padded cap inside it. It would take a LOT of padding to make this enormous hat fit me. Possible, though.
Yes. It may be a one-size-fits-all thing made en masse by smiths for armies, like modern helmets that are adjustable.
I suppose that with lots more padding (I thought I saw some in there, but I wasn't sure, nor about the thickness), it might be a bit more uncomfortable during the summer sun.
Yeah, I read that people would just stuff straw into those things.
God damn the more of this channel i watch the better it gets
Honestly found you off-putting at first but i really enjoy all the information (and warranted complaints) you provide.
I wonder if that style of jewel use is so ugly to us because it reminds us so heavily of those big fake plastic jewels that encrusted the cheap, gold-painted toys of our youths?
Yes, such questions of nurtured taste often come to mind. This mix of colours and lack of symmetry I think are factors.
Lindybeige It looks like a gold jewel encrusted wedding cake :/
Lindybeige No no no no, you got this all wrong! It's obviously ugly to ward off thieves.
I thought it looked awesome. Like a friggin' mountain of jewels and gold. Looks sorta like something from skyrim.
I've watched enough of these videos and you've convinced me to subscribe. I ain't mad. I knew it happen eventually.
You know, I just treat all D&D Armor types as basically it's whatever within theme. So 'studded leather' is any sort of light armor that isn't as protective as a chain shirt but is more protective than basic leather or padding. So maybe you have leather with some reinforcing plates or other bits, or even a light brigandine or jack.
I've actually seen reconstructors using face protection helmets with the same system (being mounted above the eyeline) and they used a pair of leather straps attached to it, which they tied on the around the helmet to lock the plate either in opened or closed possition.
I now feel guilty that my hobgoblin archer is wearing studded leather. Damn you, Lloyd!
Excellent as always...and deft utilization of the levitation situation I might add!
1:34 the clap visor bassinet helmet would historically had much stiffer hinge has to prevent it from flopping around and stay closed or open, and if it got to lose over time from being warn down (like the musume example, wich might I add that level of floppyness would simply not be considered exeptible by any man at arms or knight) you simply would just replace it with a new pin produced by your local blacksmith.
I just love the Scandinavian museums. They got the most amazing collections at the Swedish Naval and Army museum of Stockholm and it was no charge when I was there the last time with my Swedish girlfriend.
If you want a historically accurate armor to put between leather and mail, I would suggest lamellar. Lamellar is very similar to scale armor, and while it was sometime made out of metal plates, more often than not, they were made from harder than leather natural materials such as horn, bone, tusks, turtle shell, and yes even "wood" as Lindybeige suggests. Another approach is to differentiate hardened leather vs soft leather. Hardened leather armor is made out of plates that are treated in much the same way as the rawhide bones you might give your dog whereas the soft leather class of armor would be more representative of the flexible leathers you would normally make clothing out of.
I really like your sense of humour. I just saw a video of yours and insta-subscribed. Great stuff :)
~ 2:45 - his reaction to getting interrupted is very funny.
2:48 I love how he looks up as he is being interrupted by that rude speaker lady.
1:57 Lindy rocks the Doeboy!
I love the Bassinet because it looks so comfortable.
Though I had previously written on your Facebook page regarding flaws of Wooden Armor, there was one thing that occurred to me after rewatching your Greaves video.
Perhaps Wooden Armor DID exist in many cultures, but the problem was the fact that wood rots. Much like how Iron rusts away. Makes finding examples very difficult.
A/ studded leather armor is very effective for what it was invented for; wrecking a motorcycle on a paved road, so you slide across it with the abrasion kept off your flesh. B/ some later fighting gloves for the left hand did have mail palms used for parrying/blade grabbing.
Haha - maybe I should be slighlty offended, being a Swede and hearing some of your comments. But instead I feel rather honoured that you took time visit us in this forsaken nation lol. The misconceptions about studded leather armour is probably something we have to live with for generations. Mostly because it is so deep rooted in RPG games and that leather armour many times are styled in a way many people find more appealing than "real" armour. thanks for the video :D
3:36 Looks like a pizza with strange toppings. xD
Might I suggest making "A point about crowns"? When you talked about the Cabochon near the end I was very interested but it was too short
Would brigandine be a good substitute for the _idea_ behind studded leather? Where it's a piece of armor that's just a more reinforced piece of armor?
Wow, those reproduction gauntlets are amazing! The fact that they had those beautifully hand stitched gloves as the base for the armor instead of cheap modern welding gloves from a local hardware store, speaks to the quality. Id love to own those!
We've found welding gloves too thick and too stiff for sword handling. Better to outfit yourself with supple leather drovers' gloves, and if you want a gauntlet cuff, cut your own in matching leather and sew that to the cuff end of the drovers' glove.
Any suit of armor worn by knights that incorporated a helmet, left them with a disadvantage that could have been used to exploit them. Duck slightly and side step when close to a knight, and you're free to get behind them and kill them, because they wont see where you went
Cracked me up, in addition to the usual historical insights. XD
Man, you're pretty cool for not liking things other people like, and knowing more about old stuff than they do.
Are you new to this channel?
The reason the visors were lose is so that a soldier could quickly raise and lower his visor to shield him from arrows and to be able to actually see what's around him.
The myth of studded leather armor comes from leather armor with parts plate or chain actually where the outer layer was leather. It can realistically be listed between leather and chainmail because it's leather with plates of metal or sheets of chainmail attached to parts which often get struck but no joint protection as would be the case with scale, chain and plate.
Great video as always sir. I always find things you say on the more historical side very fascinating :)
Awww man! I was there yesterday! God damn! God fucking damn it, we could've met Lindybeige!
I feel amazing you're wearing the same helmet I was wearing.
the people who make the "studden leather" armour are usually trying to reproduce the look of the "brigandine" armour. which is leather armour with steel plates rivited inside. the people who make RPG games probably saw the costumes and thought "oh it's leather with studs" so called it studded leather without doing any of the research (and considering that many RPGs were first made at a time before the internet research wasn't that easy for them.
some RPGs have corrected this by including brigandine and jack of plate armour.
both were designed as lighter armour either for pesant infantry (as it was cheep to make) or to wear when out and about among the lower classes (kind of like how some people these days wear conceilable body armour) many were even designed to be fashionable for everyday wear outside of the battlefield
You can date the collar (comparative dating to other collars worked in the same era) using the "gillette " rule.
Razors had one blade for the first twenty thousand years then the number of blades increased by one every "time period" and the period decreased by half each time the number was incresed and so on and so on
I believe that on the bascinet, the pin on that particular example is too loose. On other examples of Klappvisor and Hounskull bascinets they have no additional fixtures, but it is the tension of the hinge that keeps the visor up or down.
that cabochon work is pretty beautiful, I cant quite understand how you could not appreciate it... ah well, it takes all kinds
a teacher in elementary school told us that peasants forced in war that were poor often wore studden leather armor filled with some liquid. i never thought it would be too effective nor efficient with the terrible mobility caused by the liquid that would just flow off when the leather is cut through anyway, but teacher told me she's seen examples in musems and even got hit with something with it on to demonstrate...
This is the description for the studded leather armour from Baldur's Gate:
"Studded leather armour has little in common with normal leather armour. While leather armour is a hardened shell, studded leather armour is soft and supple with hundreds of metal rivets affixed. The rivets are so close together that they form a flexible coating of hard metal that turns aside slashing and cutting attacks. The soft leather backing is little more than a means of securing the rivets in place."
It sounds reasonable, though the "coating of hard metal" part suggests to me that you can't see the leather beneath at all, so it is obviously not a description of the studded leather armour you see in movies.
Wow, those gauntlets are beatiful! And they seem so well articulated, almost comfortable. A far cry from the later examples I've seen and tried, all of which seem stiff and limiting, though they propably would protect you better from blunt trauma than these ones would.
You're quite right in mentioning that the visor claps around, That style of helm is called a Klappvisor bascinet from Germany. One can see where the name comes from =]
I am soooooooooooooo late the to Lindybeige party but holy frick am I ever glad I found this channel!! :D
As a leather worker, I know people like 3 dimensions and glitz. Rivets, done properly, can make drab looking gauntlets look better. Fine line between rivets and studding. I guess that is where the concept of conchos in Southwestern U.S. apparel came about.
have you been to any other museums here in Sweden? like the one with the Vasa-ship? I think the museum you visited now has a viking (VIKINGS!) exhibit right now.
My girlfriend is from Gotland (where Visby is) and they got a museum there where I got to try on the armor that probably goes with that brim-styled hat. It was sturdy and made out of boiled leather and plate. If I remember correctly a coiled head piece was supposed to go under the over sized helmet.
How could I miss this exhibition. I live in Stockholm damnit.
I'm glad you pointed out that was a shield, otherwise I wouldn't of known what hell that was.
Mr. Lindybeige, I totally understand your question at the beginning about visor locks. I had the same question once! They weren’t always like that, and the ones that were had a good reason. Check out Knyght Errant’s video on visor locks for an in depth explanation.