I started with Moldvay's edition of D&D in 1982, but like a lot of people I went and bought Mentzer's reboot a year later anyway before being brow beat into AD&D by all the older kids who played it. I always maintained that Moldvay's iteration of the rules, and by default Mentzer's as well, is the truest form of the game that Gary Gygax originally envisioned. Like a lot of people I imagine, I became steeped in AD&D because that was by default what everyone else around me played when someone said, "We're playing D&D this weekend." In my neighborhood in Southern Ontario back in the early eighties, the pejorative "Basuck" was attributed to BX/BECMI by those older kids, and I was one of the only holdouts who still bought modules and supplements for BX/BECMI, while still doing the same with AD&D.
48:25 "You can't just pick it up and play. You have to prepare." Regarding your comments on how well the "Starter Set" of BECMI's "Basic Red Box Set" got new players and DM's actually playing D&D adventures is that if you were using ONLY that set, yes, it took a lot more work for a new DM to get a "real" adventure going. The thing with BECMI's design, which I actually really like, is that it introduced players and DM's to the game in a step-wise manner starting small and expanding little by little with each set of rules. The Basic Red Box set was Levels 1-3 and adventures were meant to be "local" and new DM's essentially were supposed to be designing very simple games. If you look at the descriptions for how many spells a Cleric can cast (page 25 at 32:18) and Magic-Users can cast (page 38 at 32:59) they use the words "per adventure" and then adds in more advanced games adventures may last more than a day. This means that the type of adventuring new DM's were meant to design were very simple and straight-forward "party lives in town, they get up in the morning, hear about some nearby ruins, buy some supplies, go check out the ruins and come back to town at the end of the day" type of adventures. New DM's only had to come up with a story, and maybe an NPC or two to hire or guide the characters to the dungeon, design a dungeon, place monsters and treasures in each room, and run the game. Characters at levels 1-3 in the Red Box set were local heroes in the same town and their world is what ever nearby ruins and dungeons within less than a day's travel. The Blue Box Expert Set expanded the rules to include wilderness travel, the Green Box Companions Set expanded the rules for establishing strongholds. The Black Box Masters Set expands the rules on dealing with kingdoms, other realms, multiverses, and planer travel and it's all capped off by the Gold Box Immortals Set where the characters become gods and master of the universe. Which each successive set the DM builds on the concepts of the earlier rules set starting with how to make and run a dungeon encounter, fleshing out the details of a town, creating the wilderness and locations of other dungeons around that town, fleshing out the details of other towns in the surrounding territory, creating the kingdoms and regions those territories make up, add details and history of the world in which these kingdoms belong, and designing the gods that rule over that world. Collectively the 5 sets are everything a DM would need to know for total world building of their own D&D campaign setting. You are absolutely right to count the 5 sets for BECMI as a single complete "edition" because that is what it is and how it was designed. Those 9 books are the equivalent to PHB, DMG, MM, and Manual of the Planes that DM's would use for their world building in the AD&D editions, but boiled down into simpler presentation.
A lot of materials published in the late '70s through the mid-'80s were printed in light blue ink because they didn't photocopy as well with the technology that was most common at the time. (It's also why lots of people still sign legal documents in blue ink -- it makes it easier to identify the original from a photocopy.)
My road to D&D started with a documentary about the first Clash of the Titans movie, the original stop motion one, and they had a segment about DD and it totally intrigued me so went to the local model shop who stocked miniatures and had the 1981 basic set which I got for my birthday and my life was never the same again!
I stumbled upon a $5 copy of Moldvay Basic in a second hand book shop in the early 2000's. I began playing D&D with 2nd Edition, years before, and was running 3.5 at the time I found this worn old copy of Basic, but I was curious about the seemingly simple older booklet. I ran a one-off Basic game for my group that weekend and everyone fell in love with it. After we concluded the adventure, we spent the rest of the night coming to terms with the fact that an old floppy basic book outdid the polished, hardcover tomes in which we had placed our trust. I can't speak for everyone in my group, but I never fully recovered from that experience. After 4th Edition proved to be a terrible mistake and waste of money, and after 5th became too stretched out and unfortunately politicized, I finally went back and fully committed to B/X D&D. It's my game of choice now, and I move between Old School Essentials and the old Rules Cyclopedia. They got D&D right decades ago. Sadly, it took me many years to realize that truth and fully accept it. Better late than never, I guess.
Great video coverage on these great 'old' editions! I loved BECMI, and played it a time (well into the Rules Cyclopedia), along with BX and 1st edition, prior to running 2nd edition for a long time into the late 90's-2000's. Thnx for sub as well, sir!
@@TheBattlinBarrowGaming Thnx! I'm still wanting to revisit that topic for more of what we do by showing still more use of the tiles and those little Madeline Hale books. They're pretty cool!
17:50 "Building strongholds. So players can actually buy there own castles and populate it and be their own lords of the land. I don' think you can do that in modern D&D can you?" This was the reason BECMI was so useful, that I recall, it had the most detailed rules for stuff like that. Strongholds, followers, henchmen, and hirelings were a much bigger part in BECMI rules that were not particularly elaborated on in 1E and I think for 2E it was in the Castle Guide, which was a separate "splat book" from the core PHB and DMG. I was blending parts of BECMI into 1E and when I got into 2E A&D I was blending a lot of 1E into it, but was still using some the BECMI stuff as well. Playing 2E combined with stuff from 1E and BECMI really fleshed out things for me and my group.
Interesting video. The Mentzer version of D&D was the one I played, having graduated to it from Fighting Fantasy. In retrospect I still think this version is the best of the early D&D/AD&D as the presentation was so much more professional (to my eye at least) and seemed a natural progression from the top notch art from FF. I'm sure many will disagree! 😀 I still think this was the best D&D ruleset. The scope (particularly as the line progressed through the Gazetteer period in the late 80s/early 90s) was far wider than even AD&D. You get a nice progression from dungeon crawling, to wilderness exploration, to political intrigue (in the Companion set) and finally the quest for Immortality! Some of the rules in the later sets aren't that "basic" either (eg Weapon Mastery). As others have mentioned, the Rules Cyclopedia is probably the definitive version. Although not perfect it is arguably one of the two best single volume RPG rulesets (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is the other). Incidentally D&D demons turn up in the Immortals Set (later Wrath of the Immortals). As even the weaker ones can throw the same number if spells as a 36th level magic user, they aren't really cannon fodder... Looking forward to the next installment! 😀👍
Initiative in BECMI isn’t purely random. High or low dexterity scores and some monster abilities (e.g. the special ability of Pit Vipers to always win initiative) affect initiative. Also, combatants using 2-handed weapons automatically lose initiative.
LOL, love the reminiscence. Just to correct you, there were Demons in BECMI, but they were Immortal Level monsters and so were found in the Immortal Set.
Blue was used as copy protection as Xerox copiers at the time could not reproduce light blue. Incidentally comic and other artists would use light blue pencil for therapeutic reason, rough out the image, then go over the top in black then photocopy to get a clean line drawing. If you want rules cyclopedia you are unlikely to find a 2nd hand copy at a reasonable price. Might be better to get a print on demand from drivethrurpg (depending on shipping costs to your location).
That was it! I could remember there was a reason for it being blue but not what that reason was haha. I am going to be doing a PoD with drivethru this week. I did a "test order" with Ruins of Myth Drannor earlier in the month and was really impressed with the quality of them!
Books of D100 Dungeon A Solo Adventuring Game like GM's guide The Lost Tome Extraordinary like Players handbook The Dragons Return like Monster manuel. D100 Dungeon is the game system I love! Started with D&D red box over 30+ years ago.
@47:52 The best D&D starter set for that is the box set that followed Mentzer Basic, called the "New, Easy to Master D&D Game" aka the 1991 Black Box. You can literally open the box and immediately start playing with no prior experience whatsoever, as you learn each element as you play.
Very nice with the 70th original rules! I just published a vid on the 40 years anniversary of the D&D boxed set on my channel (part 1) -- there even has been the "Immortal's Set", the golden box. Different from the other rules in some respect (like the power fighting system). Know it?
I do know the Immortal box, I never managed to buy it back in the day so had to settle for a PDF on drivethru. I have added your video to my watch list!
I remember using roll less than ability score on some arbitrary dice, or 1d20 if unsure -- the Rules Cyclopedia formalized that to roll under on 1d20 -- with uses being determined by the DM ("OK, you want to try to push the boulder, roll...").
I'm English and so descended from anglo saxon, in old English the th comes from the Thorn rune and is so three would be pronounced almost like free. There is an ever so slight difference. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurisaz
Just caught this mention! Thank you so much for the shoulout!
No worries! Can't mention BECMI products without mentioning yourself! That just wouldn't be right
I started with Moldvay's edition of D&D in 1982, but like a lot of people I went and bought Mentzer's reboot a year later anyway before being brow beat into AD&D by all the older kids who played it. I always maintained that Moldvay's iteration of the rules, and by default Mentzer's as well, is the truest form of the game that Gary Gygax originally envisioned. Like a lot of people I imagine, I became steeped in AD&D because that was by default what everyone else around me played when someone said, "We're playing D&D this weekend." In my neighborhood in Southern Ontario back in the early eighties, the pejorative "Basuck" was attributed to BX/BECMI by those older kids, and I was one of the only holdouts who still bought modules and supplements for BX/BECMI, while still doing the same with AD&D.
48:25 "You can't just pick it up and play. You have to prepare." Regarding your comments on how well the "Starter Set" of BECMI's "Basic Red Box Set" got new players and DM's actually playing D&D adventures is that if you were using ONLY that set, yes, it took a lot more work for a new DM to get a "real" adventure going. The thing with BECMI's design, which I actually really like, is that it introduced players and DM's to the game in a step-wise manner starting small and expanding little by little with each set of rules.
The Basic Red Box set was Levels 1-3 and adventures were meant to be "local" and new DM's essentially were supposed to be designing very simple games. If you look at the descriptions for how many spells a Cleric can cast (page 25 at 32:18) and Magic-Users can cast (page 38 at 32:59) they use the words "per adventure" and then adds in more advanced games adventures may last more than a day. This means that the type of adventuring new DM's were meant to design were very simple and straight-forward "party lives in town, they get up in the morning, hear about some nearby ruins, buy some supplies, go check out the ruins and come back to town at the end of the day" type of adventures. New DM's only had to come up with a story, and maybe an NPC or two to hire or guide the characters to the dungeon, design a dungeon, place monsters and treasures in each room, and run the game. Characters at levels 1-3 in the Red Box set were local heroes in the same town and their world is what ever nearby ruins and dungeons within less than a day's travel. The Blue Box Expert Set expanded the rules to include wilderness travel, the Green Box Companions Set expanded the rules for establishing strongholds. The Black Box Masters Set expands the rules on dealing with kingdoms, other realms, multiverses, and planer travel and it's all capped off by the Gold Box Immortals Set where the characters become gods and master of the universe.
Which each successive set the DM builds on the concepts of the earlier rules set starting with how to make and run a dungeon encounter, fleshing out the details of a town, creating the wilderness and locations of other dungeons around that town, fleshing out the details of other towns in the surrounding territory, creating the kingdoms and regions those territories make up, add details and history of the world in which these kingdoms belong, and designing the gods that rule over that world.
Collectively the 5 sets are everything a DM would need to know for total world building of their own D&D campaign setting. You are absolutely right to count the 5 sets for BECMI as a single complete "edition" because that is what it is and how it was designed. Those 9 books are the equivalent to PHB, DMG, MM, and Manual of the Planes that DM's would use for their world building in the AD&D editions, but boiled down into simpler presentation.
Wow seeing the box sets takes me waaayyy back ❤️
They were works of art
Bought the red elmore cover set in the 80’s which I still have.
Eventually found the D&D Cyclopedia hard cover release.
I never got that, I may try to get a second hand copy.
A great look at the very best edition of D&D!
It really is the best edition!
A lot of materials published in the late '70s through the mid-'80s were printed in light blue ink because they didn't photocopy as well with the technology that was most common at the time. (It's also why lots of people still sign legal documents in blue ink -- it makes it easier to identify the original from a photocopy.)
My road to D&D started with a documentary about the first Clash of the Titans movie, the original stop motion one, and they had a segment about DD and it totally intrigued me so went to the local model shop who stocked miniatures and had the 1981 basic set which I got for my birthday and my life was never the same again!
Sounds like a good documtary. I will see if I can find a copy.
I stumbled upon a $5 copy of Moldvay Basic in a second hand book shop in the early 2000's. I began playing D&D with 2nd Edition, years before, and was running 3.5 at the time I found this worn old copy of Basic, but I was curious about the seemingly simple older booklet. I ran a one-off Basic game for my group that weekend and everyone fell in love with it. After we concluded the adventure, we spent the rest of the night coming to terms with the fact that an old floppy basic book outdid the polished, hardcover tomes in which we had placed our trust.
I can't speak for everyone in my group, but I never fully recovered from that experience. After 4th Edition proved to be a terrible mistake and waste of money, and after 5th became too stretched out and unfortunately politicized, I finally went back and fully committed to B/X D&D. It's my game of choice now, and I move between Old School Essentials and the old Rules Cyclopedia.
They got D&D right decades ago. Sadly, it took me many years to realize that truth and fully accept it. Better late than never, I guess.
Completly agree with what you say. They got it right early on.
Great video coverage on these great 'old' editions! I loved BECMI, and played it a time (well into the Rules Cyclopedia), along with BX and 1st edition, prior to running 2nd edition for a long time into the late 90's-2000's.
Thnx for sub as well, sir!
I'm going to have a deep delvth of your channel this week! Already got a nice watch list building!
@@TheBattlinBarrowGaming Thank you, sir. Any topic suggestions would be appreciated. 👍
@@retrodmray how to run hex crawls? Not just the technical rules side of things but how to make it fun and atmospheric 😉
@@TheBattlinBarrowGaming Thnx! I'm still wanting to revisit that topic for more of what we do by showing still more use of the tiles and those little Madeline Hale books. They're pretty cool!
17:50 "Building strongholds. So players can actually buy there own castles and populate it and be their own lords of the land. I don' think you can do that in modern D&D can you?" This was the reason BECMI was so useful, that I recall, it had the most detailed rules for stuff like that. Strongholds, followers, henchmen, and hirelings were a much bigger part in BECMI rules that were not particularly elaborated on in 1E and I think for 2E it was in the Castle Guide, which was a separate "splat book" from the core PHB and DMG. I was blending parts of BECMI into 1E and when I got into 2E A&D I was blending a lot of 1E into it, but was still using some the BECMI stuff as well. Playing 2E combined with stuff from 1E and BECMI really fleshed out things for me and my group.
Excellent and useful review ty. I’m going back to BECMI for a campaign with my kids, looking forward to it
Have fun! Let me know how it goes!
Basic is great for quickly teaching the game to kids. New Kids can easily join in at a moments notice, so we can play anytime anywhere!
Did you do it?
I did! Really enjoying it. Getting in about one session per week
@@andrewhaldenby4949 that's terrific!!!!😊
I got into D&D in 1980 when i was 13
The golden age. I was a little younger then at a wee four years old!
@@TheBattlinBarrowGaming I got the blue box basic set for that birthday
What a set the expert was! It still influences my games today
Interesting video. The Mentzer version of D&D was the one I played, having graduated to it from Fighting Fantasy. In retrospect I still think this version is the best of the early D&D/AD&D as the presentation was so much more professional (to my eye at least) and seemed a natural progression from the top notch art from FF. I'm sure many will disagree! 😀
I still think this was the best D&D ruleset. The scope (particularly as the line progressed through the Gazetteer period in the late 80s/early 90s) was far wider than even AD&D. You get a nice progression from dungeon crawling, to wilderness exploration, to political intrigue (in the Companion set) and finally the quest for Immortality! Some of the rules in the later sets aren't that "basic" either (eg Weapon Mastery).
As others have mentioned, the Rules Cyclopedia is probably the definitive version. Although not perfect it is arguably one of the two best single volume RPG rulesets (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is the other).
Incidentally D&D demons turn up in the Immortals Set (later Wrath of the Immortals). As even the weaker ones can throw the same number if spells as a 36th level magic user, they aren't really cannon fodder...
Looking forward to the next installment! 😀👍
I am with you on the FF thing. Both had amazing art.
I was under the false impression that B/X was different BECMI, thanks for clearing that up!
I think the Holmes basic is closer to oD&D but moldvay and mentzers are pretty much compatible
Initiative in BECMI isn’t purely random. High or low dexterity scores and some monster abilities (e.g. the special ability of Pit Vipers to always win initiative) affect initiative. Also, combatants using 2-handed weapons automatically lose initiative.
LOL, love the reminiscence. Just to correct you, there were Demons in BECMI, but they were Immortal Level monsters and so were found in the Immortal Set.
Yes I forgot about that. I never owned the immortal set but got the Rules Cyclopedia after recording this
Blue was used as copy protection as Xerox copiers at the time could not reproduce light blue. Incidentally comic and other artists would use light blue pencil for therapeutic reason, rough out the image, then go over the top in black then photocopy to get a clean line drawing. If you want rules cyclopedia you are unlikely to find a 2nd hand copy at a reasonable price. Might be better to get a print on demand from drivethrurpg (depending on shipping costs to your location).
That was it! I could remember there was a reason for it being blue but not what that reason was haha. I am going to be doing a PoD with drivethru this week. I did a "test order" with Ruins of Myth Drannor earlier in the month and was really impressed with the quality of them!
Yeah, rules cyclopedia POD is pretty reasonably priced in DTRPG.
And the hardcover I got from DTRPG was very good quality
I have the Rule Cyclopedia got it when I was a kid, saved up for it, and yeah definitely not selling it.
Books of D100 Dungeon
A Solo Adventuring Game
like GM's guide
The Lost Tome Extraordinary like
Players handbook
The Dragons Return
like Monster manuel.
D100 Dungeon is the game system I love!
Started with D&D red box over 30+ years ago.
@47:52 The best D&D starter set for that is the box set that followed Mentzer Basic, called the "New, Easy to Master D&D Game" aka the 1991 Black Box. You can literally open the box and immediately start playing with no prior experience whatsoever, as you learn each element as you play.
I am thinking of getting that box just for collection reasons :D
Very nice with the 70th original rules! I just published a vid on the 40 years anniversary of the D&D boxed set on my channel (part 1) -- there even has been the "Immortal's Set", the golden box. Different from the other rules in some respect (like the power fighting system). Know it?
I do know the Immortal box, I never managed to buy it back in the day so had to settle for a PDF on drivethru. I have added your video to my watch list!
I remember using roll less than ability score on some arbitrary dice, or 1d20 if unsure -- the Rules Cyclopedia formalized that to roll under on 1d20 -- with uses being determined by the DM ("OK, you want to try to push the boulder, roll...").
Second edition is still the best
The basic rules set you show appears to be the Moldvay version rather than the BCMI from Mentzer. Mentzers version had a DM's book rather than a game.
If you owned it back then you would know copy machines couldn't do blue
Omg.... thanks for making such video!! People like me only know FF and LW. DD is only known by people born in the 70s
Haha Glad to be of some kind of help.
@@TheBattlinBarrowGaming i have seen these covers over at eBay among those role playing books. I have always wondered what the contents are.
I realised that u pronounce three as "free". We Singaporeans pronounce three as "tree".
I'm English and so descended from anglo saxon, in old English the th comes from the Thorn rune and is so three would be pronounced almost like free. There is an ever so slight difference. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurisaz
@@TheBattlinBarrowGaming 3 = 🌳
14:10 come to think of it, I believe we say 'rOWte' and 'rOOte' interchangeably where I'm from (NE US)