The current problem with PVP is that there's no reason for someone NOT to attack. There's no reputation penalties, the prison system is laughably easy to get out of, there's no security forces in the "secure" system. There's no reason not to other than losing your own armor or what ever when you die.
As a PvE player, I am 100% against PvE-only servers. There is a level of interaction, emergent gameplay, threat, risk, reward, etc... They are completely deleted from the game, when you remove that aspect. I am 100% for the "per system security with varying levels of player protection". Give me a safe place to go, but don't remove that level of threat if I want to risk things. The best moments of gameplay I've had in SC have almost always involved successfully fighting off other players, or escaping by the skin of my teeth. The reward for that always tastes sweeter. However, the systems for law and security NEED to get a pass already, because there is no consequence for players looking simply to ruin someone else's hour or two of play. It's one thing to disable a ship, take the cargo, and leave the pirated player with the capacity for rescue. It's another to ram someone on their way into a hangar and leave their cargo, just for the sake of lulz.
I would still prefer the option of a pve server and/or at least a separate role play server to stop the derpy style other players always bring like sprinting everywhere in white space suits or robes and I totally agree with you there will be lost gameplay from either but it gives players the option which is all we are asking for. I do agree that they really need to do the pass on security as it will help generally but for role players that won't help enough.
@Crivicus I could get down for a PvPRP server. Force pirates to actually have to negotiate/board, etc. When a player has more options to defend, as opposed to just getting rammed or utterly dunked on, PvP doesnt feel as bad.
@CitizenScott Both can be circumvented via ramming. Someone decides they want to use their ship as a missile just to fuck you over, there's nothing to stop them. There needs to be an actual player bounty system, where players manually assign a bounty via a payout, each player that adds to the bounty report increases that payout. That promotes hunting griefers, as they have found ways to circumvent traditional bounty and crimestat systems already.
On the topic of player experiences good/bad and bugs: "It's ok for both to exist. People focus too much on one to prove a point." You're really hitting the nail on the head there.
This is such a good interview/discussion! So many good points brought up that just speak directly to the zeitgeist of what's been the culmination of the 2024 year. I think the biggest thing with 4.0 is managing expectations on what was promised not just this year ... but as a whole of the last decade. You've both listed so many of the pain points. For so long, the tech was said to be the limiting factor and it's seemingly out of the way finally. Now, they need to deliver all these supporting game play systems and mechanisms that they promised. We need to see concrete steps forward.
15:39 or if you conduct PvP in 'safe zones' there is more than just a crime stat or or ship getting shot at by the space-cops, you could do things like it lowering your faction reputations or even the the reputations of the guild your in. Reason to discourage people beyond in-game money.
I believe most people don't want PvP because they know the players are going to act out of character with the rest of the world that Star Citizen provides. Another thing is, you're going to see those that are excellent at PvP doing exploits to gain advantages in one way or another. Essentially most NPCs are fighting within the confines of the system, humans try to typically break those systems so playing against a player is going to be like a Dark Souls encounter in which PvE players are going to detest. I really don't know a good way of balancing. EvE is balanced because things are straight up confined in that game. Versus this game where there are going to be way more variables.
the most annoying part of pyro, stanton and pvp is that there's no good way to talk in game. foxhole shows the power of voip and how it can make a 100% pvp game have moments of cooperation between enemies and halt ganking or have the social mmo story moments everyone craves from SC
I do like all this dreaming about what PvP could be, but the sad reality right now is that PvP is just kill on sight. Imagine this, I land at an outpost and I get out my ship. I walk to the elevator console and observe an elevator go down slowly... now I put cargo on the elevator and now I have to watch an elevator slowly come up. Meanwhile, a PvPer shows up... starts shooting me from the safety of his ship. What can I do? What safety is there? I'm just roleplaying my profession and get clapped without any means of protection! Now I made if off the surface? Hey, another PvPer? Boom get clapped. Now I lost my cargo, my entire day is ruined and what does the PvPer do? He just flies off because there is ZERO incentive for them to loot you. That is what PvP is in the minds of everyone, you just kill other players and don't bother with anything else.
38:25 inter departmental comms is 100% not up to par. While it might not seem like a big deal to everyone you can still find corsair specs on their website telling people you get 6x guns as a pilot. As part of any changes to these ships, those pages need to reflect that. Changes ALL likely have a ticket/jira whatever. Part of those should have tasks for the marketing or equivalent team to make updates and scrub incorrect information.
Thanks Xerostate for the shout out! I'm a 23 year old gamer that's excited about this game and I agree. I'd like to be able to play this game before I'm 35 too lol
Nope it's still 2024, but I do agree that 2025 must be of great impact for CIG. We can't have three back-to-back years of Core Tech development woes, delays, and failures.
I started playing in March and 4.0 has been pretty great. Usual issues with elevators at times, a wonky hanger or two, public chat failing, unsharable contracts, contracts not working... but.. man there's just something great about the ai working and even been aggressive, improved frame rates, and the look of pyro as a whole. Certainly I'm new in the scheme of things but I can but be hopeful for the future. SC just does something I've wanted in so many games over the years. There's moments of just pure awe at the systems at play and, when it works, it's just amazingly immersive.
@@stuartburns8657stay out his pockets. How does not spending money help? The game would never get funded without us financing the game. You just have to be adult and not cry about open development. Development is going to go on for forever in an online MMO. How does cutting the funding for it help? We wouldn’t be here without funding and game may crash without it and any money spent will be for nothing, even starter ship money. The argument of only buy a starter ship is self defeating. They ain’t going to be able to do anything faster just because funding drops. This conspiracy thinking is so missed placed and logically dumb.
i think the major flaw that all pvp players suffer from and this is a general across all mmorpg, they truly believe they are the center of the gaming universe. i think what cig did here with pyro is at best just a test to how poorly designed their mindset is behind pvp and how current in game systems or lack there of, leads to a toxic gaming experience. i agree with zero only in the idea you cant really seperate out pvp as a toggle switch, but that is it. the systems like pyro ultimately need systems in place like reputation that actually impact what you are doing and again will agree 100 percent with zero that systems like base defense and ai attack ships need to actually work and actually clear things out around key points. like for example jump points. until that time comes the game is just straight up toxic filled pvp idiots who live to just troll people. even with systems in place and content actually working i suspect cig will be very busy banning people for being idiots.
I don't suspect that CIG thinking about PvP in terms of immediate dev goals at all, and I wouldn't blame them if it was put on the back burner. They still have to work out falling through planets and getting Quantum Drive to go where you want it, ffs. But yeah, trolls are taking advantage, and I don't blame them. I just hope the message goes out for the miners and haulers out there that it's best to treat the experience as a bug testing build, stay in Stanton, have Nvidia instant replay running to record griefing as CIG defines it, and don't take it personally when they are taken advantage of for someone else's entertainment. People say that it's the most ambitious game ever to maybe one day exist but at the end of the day, all we're doing is pushing pixels around on a screen. If a different game is less frustrating or provides a better experience, it's best to give your money to them instead.
As for a potential solution for better meshing between the teams would be for Chris to automate his vision through an internal only AI so he can be everywhere all the time. The game is built around him as it is, optimize for the model.
7:50 same thing here, set spawn at checkmate, mess around for 2 days with almost no problems, jump to stanton and got interdicted around hurston by a gaurdian qi and 4 other players and got ganked
As im listening to the podcast im getting reddit notifications that are literally "4.0 is the buggiest mess ever made" followed by "i am speechless!" and other posts that talk about how good 4.0 is
Go into arena commander keep changing the region your in there and going back to the main menu for the pu until you get the option to edit character, switch from male to female and try jump back on the pu
A guy i know has his character stuck on a shard. He was pissed and said that he wasn't going to put money into it...only to turn around spending money on an alt account. Missions are just pissing me off because a lot of them don't recognize your delivered or pickup cargo
@@yous2244 and I agree, CIG as a company is a mess right now… but replying with a negative response to a honest comment doesn’t make sense… we will see maelstrom in game eventually even if CIG keeps there devs. there’s no reason to get negative towards someone who has no active power with cig just because you are unhappy with the development path SC and SQ42 have taken
As 95% of my time in the verse being solo. The only times I’ve been griefed and or experienced PvP were on foot and due to things outside my control like being drugged and stripped of my gear in a station. Or it was due to me not paying attention. Whenever I’ve experienced PvP in a ship it was because I was looking for it. I really think it just comes down to luck and being vigilant and knowing what to avoid doing.
We also have to factor in that SQ42 is probably requiring less and less developer resources in its polishing phase, and that Static Server Meshing (sort of Part 1 of 2 of Server Meshing) is in and working. That'll free up capacity potentially allowing CIG to finally improve backstage things that have been lacking ever since 3.0 launched - cleanup processes to try and keep the entity count low(er) over time, horrendous NPC AI (includes turrets) and its complete inability to function during low server fps, long-standing bugs with elevators, hangar spawning, item persistence, falling through surfaces, ... overall I think, yes, SC can afford "just another year of development progress", and the gameplay aspects and content additions coming together will suffice to bring in new players and funding sufficient for 2026. 2026 is SQ42 release year.
The problem PVP avoidant players have with PvP isn't being impacted by others, it's the loss of time and possessions, and for some it's their anxiety and blood pressure. SO arguing about how PVE actions for control of a station affecting others when they can no longer dock, while it IS technically PvP it's not in the realm of something the PvP averse will really care about because it can be corrected by PvE play.
When it comes to size of ship the Vulture is three feet longer than the landing pad it uses, not a problem until the Polaris and the bay is just a little to small, three feet to small. I would really like the vulture to lose those extra three feet.
Approximately 58% of homicides in 2023 were "cleared" (solved) in the US. Lower than I thought, but still constitutes "most"...though it's been steadily declining (it was 65% in 2013). But, it very much depends on where you live. Some places are like 80%, some places are more like 30% (Chicago is an example) Also thanks for the cute compliment.
Great show guys. The discussion was all rounded and enjoyable to listen to, especially the dangers of Pyro, SC would be boring with no PvP. It just the murder hobos need to be delt with, which give PvPers a bad name.
It is definitely too early for Pyro to do its job. Stanton lacks real security, and the economy isn't yet balanced for meaningful choices between the two systems. An even bigger missing feature is the removal of armistice zones. It's still too easy to feel safe in Pyro, and not enough reward for going there.
On the point of going to 1.0, they have to at-least have a couple more systems ready to go for launch. They must realise this, plus Terra for 1.0 would be a big boost for them and us.
The diffrence between Murder Hoboo and PVP for a reason, is one is doing it to get something. The fix is make ammo, missles and repairs costly. Also make claim timmers longer and not give you back ammo or missles. This would make the Murder Hoboo run out of money. Fines and paying gangs for access to landing spots, through Rep. We need more money sinks, this would make just being a Murder Hoboo not thecost effective in the long run.
@@CitizenScott So you think killing a minner over and over again with no reason is fun for both players? it is a game to have fun in. Now if you killed the minner for the ore or parts or salvage then that if PVP. I am saying PVP needs to be balance like all parts of a game if you do an action there needs to be a downside.
@@ianwilson4286 Well, losing is typically not fun for anyone, and the PvPers motivation doesn't change the outcome at all, so not sure what your issue is there, but that's not really the point. I just see a lot of people like yourself talking as if PvP is a problem, when CIG have consistently said since day one up to now that even what you call "Murder Hoboo" is an intended part of the game. Many CIG devs play that way themselves, and they've built a whole Crimestat/Prison system around it to add fun and challenge to criminal gameplay. So it kinda sounds like you just don't understand or like the game. Is that what you're saying?
Arena Commander will never suffice to meet the promise of private servers. Those of us who are interested in that aren't even looking for the entire back end to be there like CIG thinks when they tell us we'd never be able to run it; we're looking for something like ourselves and our friends on what would be at most two DGS at a time running, say, mining operations to and from the base we built. We're not looking to wander around the entire game with thousands of other players we don't even know; we want our small group to affect OUR world without some jerk with an A2 or a Polaris coming along and burning off some ordnance for kicks. We're not even opposed to PvP. We just don't want the random people coming along to gank/grief everyone in sight.
I've been playing since June of 2022. Honestly PVP needs to be left in the game and not be on separate servers. Mainly as Pyro is a high risk, high reward area. On the other topic, CIG needs to really get the basic gameplay ironed out for both new and old players. I agree, the game is not going to grow if they can't take care of the basics for people to play, they will attract and keep so many new players (the end result make even more money and have more backers) if the basic gameplay and things in game worked. That should really be the main focus.
Elite dangerous handles the pve experiemce perfectly because they have npc ships and npcs! Also pve players are forced to step out of their comfort to get the high rewards but pvp players are rewarded for staying in their comfort zone. Instead of forcing pvp players to go to high security for their high rewards where they are at risk
Now I don't know who will read this but, Stanton pyro who is safe, put one right in the middle 3 system's, can't shot in one, can't leave without your gun in another an just protect yourself in the middle...?
I feel like its a good decision to use 2025 for improving stability, However if they dont get this game pushed in the next few years its never gonna take flight. Currently alot of the servers I’ve connected to have had a count of 300 ish each time Do we even have a playerbase big enough to keep this game running when it launches
Ive hated on SC alot the past year or 2 because lets be honest they didnt do much but since 4.0 patch the performance improvments have been insane and the pvp element of pyro is going to create massive replayerbilty which this game needed i really do hope they polish there server meshing so that its backers can really start enjoying what they paid for!
I don’t mind fighting PvE or PvP, but I’m not a fan of constantly being outnumbered in every PvP encounter when all the best gear is locked behind it. 😅
I had an Aurora for 10 years and the majority of patches there were issues with it, currently for a couple patches now where you cant load cargo. I did end up upgrading it to a 300i to enjoy it with my friends. I do regret it as no dev should be rewarded with additional oirchases with the new player experience being so poor with the one of the most purchased ships. I wont be outting more money into SC because of such a bad experience with my initial (and should have been only) ship purchase. Id be more inclined and feel positive to purchase an extra ship, likely a Hull A if my past experience was more positive. Fully aware its Alpha, but CGI is blatantly run by marketing to get the biggest ships out to sell rather than improve new player experience
The servers are on fire, 50% of players locked out of the game, and the other 50% going hard on the dupe exploit.... Yeah, Things are looking pretty good...... this is just an ID10T error
Unfortunately Xero just defined any thing in game that affects another player is "PvP". So player driven economy is PvP. So SC is completely a PvP because the economy applies to everything.
Yeah my experience so far and I've spent roughly 2/3 of my play time in pyro since 4.0 went to live preview, is I've been ganked and attacked way, waaaaay more often in stanton than I have in pyro. It's been an incredibly strange feeling for me.
Especially if they’re shooting ghost rounds at you and besides the flashing “hit” in the mfd, there are no indications or tracer rounds showing they are shooting
I love xerostate such an even tempered dude ❤. Also, podcast with two best easy listening radio voices in SC. I think the polarised opinions are because people do different content - 4.0 sandbox has improved, but 4.0 themepark/missions really suck l.
@@fffx2 It wont be forever, and just the fact that we have 2 playable systems in game is pretty massive. The introduction of Pyro also means the introduction of jump gates, which is another big deal for the game.
I got nothin els ta do so, ... I started star citizen in November of 23 I turned 65 in November of 24 and I'm just hoping for 2025 a finished game, ... hay when I started I did not even have a gpu on this mini pc, ... was going to go through so much stuff to add gpu then ask geevs AI an wala I just ordered a dell thing i7 an gigabyte 3060 gpu I think. I don't know but AI did, ... the game looked good before my frame dropped to one. ... see you in a few weeks
In all the talk about what CIG wants, its wants will be trumped by how people are. There's ample evidence from multiple years and multiple games that some player styles are incompatible.
Some might call me a white knight. I backed in 2014 spent quite a bit on the game, play every patch for many hours. I have friends that would love this game, I won’t ask them to join due to the state of the game.
I absolutely hate Pyro. Don't get me wrong I play PVP in games like destiny and COD, I don't mind doing PVP when I know it's coming. Getting sniped or bombed just because I wanted to stroll around a planet to explore isn't fun for me. I'm fine with dealing with actual pirates because they just want either cargo or money and they'll leave me alone. I think what a lot of people in pyro think is PVP is just straight up griefing, they aren't after you're loot they don't want some epic battle, they just want you dead because they have nothing better to do. Also locking up the good guns and ship parts behind contested zones sucks. I understand the Lord of it, yeah cool, but if they want players to go get it at least make it doable. Having an org block the doors on both sides so no one can get in sucks. In my opinion I think it would be better if CZ were instanced. You don't fight player and NPCs instead just NPCs. They can make them tougher if they want but I think making it instances would make it easier for people that just PVE to come in get what they need and then get back to Stanton. I love this game and i want it to do well, but I've seen so many people in the Global chat and Reddit say they are leaving because of the state of Pyro or constantly getting killed for exploring. There are ways to do PVP but I don't think making an entire system PVP is it. That's just my opinion and I'll leave it at that.
CIG wants to have its cake AND eat it, or in other parlance have your money and spend it. To speak to the whole wider issue discussed pvpve etc, the problem basically not to be confused with that it couldnt be done by anybody, its CIG cant make what is needed.
I haven't played for a few yrs, until 4.0 came about - so I updated, it took a day or 2 for me to figure out I had to download the preview - haa! I found the gate and tried it - gosh it even took a few times just to get out of the apartment - then i was looking for this hanger folks were talking about - I was thinking of the hanger we had back when - but I have yet to find it - I own a bunch of goodies to decorate the hanger - is the hanger not out yet?? and also, the progress they got so far seems to me sq42 still has a lot more work I would think, yet they say sq42 is finished and in polished state and NPC are still F*cked up in the game just for staters ''I don't know''- For me it was like learning how to play again - the control keys seem to always change - I wish they would just keep to one set of controls - it would be nice if they give a option for single or mmo - we have sq42 as single - i wish we could continue the game as single into the Star citizen - that's just my opinion - ✌
@@stuartburns8657 we all will be -HAA! 1st chapter of sq42 they say 30hrs of gameplay -''Q'' is that actual gameplay or watching a movie with little gameplay?? ✌
It's kinda crazy as a veteran player the amount of complaining about PVP, borderline griefing in Pyro... But as a new player, I can see why they could be frustrated with the experience. I think it's the inevitable growing pains of having a system without the robust reputation system to make a place like Pyro a little more "safe". But yeah, CIG has been talking Pyro up as a lawless, dangerous system for a decade lol I'm not a big PVP player, but I accept the game they are trying to build!
Good chat! There is so much effort of many to identify themselves as PvP or PvE, but I really believe most of us identify as both. Haulers enjoy the tranquility of solo play, but they sure enjoy competition with other haulers... miners, salvagers, explorers, everyone wants to brag about exploits in a way its compared to others efforts. Combat in player versus players is specifically scary for a whole bunch of people because the systems are just not easy to understand. Too many secret details that give big advantages... time to kill is low so not a lot of ground to learn. And there is a smell of aggressiveness between styles, like "my team is better than yours", which does not help since we are pretty much the same team since we want the game out You both nailed, the necessity for safety and danger so people can tip toe into different game styles and learn (focus on this word). Police must be gamified like in Ultima Online, you scream guard and they appear like a divine punishment in super safe systems... and a progressive downward efficiency toward dangerous zones
changing the game environment is not PVP. that's just a living universe. the station could flip allegance on a timer and it would have the same affect on pve player it would just be boring and i say that as someone who isn't into hardcore pvp
changing the game environment in a way that directly affects another player? PVP (in my opinion). at the very least, it creates an opportunity for players to "affect" other players even in a "PVE server" ...which creates issues of it's own
I prefer PvE but I am not opposed to keeping my ears on to join a defense sortie. The melded PvE/PvP system design, as it it stands, doesn't work without real world organized crime. Don't dig too deep into the goings on at Eve Online or Nintendo.
To be clear, what I want and what I feel is inevitable are entirely separate things. I agree with Xero, basically. However, 12:00 onward. PvE servers will be designed, ideally, such that their server meshing allows for challenging PvE combat. More dangerous systems would still be more dangerous, again ideally, as a result of more frequent attacks, stronger ships, and better application of the AI's capabilities. Regarding station control, that would simply be one of the drawbacks to residing in more dangerous space; it would be PvP-via-PvE. Capture and control nodes, then have a timer where players are guaranteed control for X number of days (or whatever duration) before it's opened to the possibility of control. This could even be the PvP flag option where if you choose to control a station or settlement in one of those null sec systems then you are opting into PvP, and your PvP Enabled flag turns on during the limited window where control of locations can change hands.
Yep. That sounds like the PvP slider set to PvE. I also agree with Xero that Pyro is fine, it's the lack of security in Stanton where in places where it's supposed to be in Stanton that's the issue. Even going to the extreme with separate servers, Escape from Tarkov has a PvE mode with a separate player flea market and it's been a completely fine experience for me. Buzzcutpsycho has a great take that the problem that some PvE miners and haulers have is that the SC is building a low trust society that precipitates from factionless PvP.
Yes it is, the lore indicates it will not be a valible place to be but an place to over come to get to better places if you choose too. It will be the only place the criminals can be safe from UEE, bounty hunters will have to work hard to get a high end bounty. They will have to battle NPC an other players for resources in Pyro.
@@wraith511802003 Being "risky" doesn't automatically mean it is "end game"... End game means you will need to have achieved multiple difficult achievements in order to be able to then proceed to this "end game" content and be successful... Being in Pyro is not "end game" .. There will be end game content in all the systems I am sure. Pyro is a starting location for goodness sakes. Trying to argue that the entire system is "end game" is literally the dumbest thing when it says its not right on the menu of the darn game. Major *eye roll*
If one PVE player flipping a statrion's alignment is PVP against another PVE player, then Elite Dangerous solo mode is till PvP. You can still affect the background simulation, you can still affect trade prices and supply & demand, you can still Unknown Artifact bomb stations and repair those stations with meta alloys (I think? It's been a while since that has happened I think), you can still participate in powerplay, etc etc etc. I hear the argument you are making, but your argument is self defeating because the only logical conclusion is that there *is no such thing* as pve only servers, so *no one can get mad about* pve only servers. If you don't think players should be able to opt out of PVP then great, by your own logic they aren't, even if they want to play in solo mode. Sounds good, everyone gets what they want. Solo players can play solo and PvP players can still PvP against the solo players (in a small way).
As a 10+ year backer, jumping into 4.0 was a blast, I did a bunker mission and for the first time ever for me, the AI behaved like AI, they shot at me, pursued, and didn't shoot at the walls, it sounds small but that really made me think 2025 was going to be special with the server tech in place
Pyro is not going to be the way it is now when the other systems are in. Pyro is a wasteland, nothing there should be valuable. It is a safe place for the criminals who don't want UEE life. It will be a short cut to other locations, but not a destination, an will be just a place for the PVP edge lords to pretend they are winning in a game that does not have a win state.
Star citizen developers need to ignore both pve and pvp players. Chris roberts needs to make the game that he invisioned. If you dont like the game play something else. As for 2025 we need them to pick it up. They cant survive much longer waiting indefjnitely.
CIG can probably afford to have as many "just another years" as it needs. Anecdotally, I don't think I've ever seen as many e mails from RSI. The product hasn't been exciting to play last year, which I think was reflected in the slight downturn in sales numbers. But they still have a lot of features to make & old ones to refactor, several years of work before this comes out of early access. They should be slashing features, but they aren't. They'll continue to move along at whatever pace they can achieve. There will be no big moment where SC wins/fails. It won't die or succeed in 12 months. It'll either slowly improve and ramp up. Or active players, funding & staffing will decrease until it just falls into obscurity.
Xerostate is way over complicating pvp. “Ohh changing the political alignment of this and that would be like turning a gun on a player and you used the game to PvP! Ohh towing is PvP”. No really it’s not. That becomes environment and towing your shit is some you can avoid simply by putting your shields on. You have a bias, xero. You’re seeing this through the lense of someone wanting to be allowed to hurt others. You are on a platform that delivers you voice to devs and the greater community. Chill out just because there are pve servers doesn’t mean you can’t have your pvp.
Ironic that one of the things I talk about in this podcast is how industry and PVE players should have a good experience, and PVE-focused players should have safe place they can go to relax. One of my favorite things the game has done pretty well so far is mining and salvage. You have no idea how players could affect the playspace in a "PVE server" in order to "proxy PVP" - my argument is that CIG should avoid creating that issue by making a game where PVE-focused players can feel safe, giving them an actual "PVE space" rather than arbitrary "PVE servers"
@ Thanks for taking the time to read and reply. The safe space approach is a bit like shoving people onto a reservation. My problem w being jumped when I’m not participating in that kind of game play is that especially in this game it is costing the attacked player time. Time is the most valuable resource in existence. When a player kills another in game yea it’s just a game, however they did steal someone’s time from them which is not ok. Shoving people onto a reservation and saying here you go here’s your SC experience and get F’d if you want to go and explore or play the rest of the game because everywhere else people a free to inflict harm w impunity. ED as you mentioned does a great job of this w separate servers. You are able to effect the economy, pledge and support political factions etc just the same as in the PvP version. Why would that not work here?
The current problem with PVP is that there's no reason for someone NOT to attack. There's no reputation penalties, the prison system is laughably easy to get out of, there's no security forces in the "secure" system. There's no reason not to other than losing your own armor or what ever when you die.
THIS
Fun Fact: The coffee machines work in the Habs, you just need a mug which is sometimes already there.
classic CiG, working coffee machines that noone knows about or cares about in habs, but inventory hasnt worked since 2016...
As a PvE player, I am 100% against PvE-only servers. There is a level of interaction, emergent gameplay, threat, risk, reward, etc... They are completely deleted from the game, when you remove that aspect. I am 100% for the "per system security with varying levels of player protection". Give me a safe place to go, but don't remove that level of threat if I want to risk things. The best moments of gameplay I've had in SC have almost always involved successfully fighting off other players, or escaping by the skin of my teeth. The reward for that always tastes sweeter.
However, the systems for law and security NEED to get a pass already, because there is no consequence for players looking simply to ruin someone else's hour or two of play. It's one thing to disable a ship, take the cargo, and leave the pirated player with the capacity for rescue. It's another to ram someone on their way into a hangar and leave their cargo, just for the sake of lulz.
I would still prefer the option of a pve server and/or at least a separate role play server to stop the derpy style other players always bring like sprinting everywhere in white space suits or robes and I totally agree with you there will be lost gameplay from either but it gives players the option which is all we are asking for.
I do agree that they really need to do the pass on security as it will help generally but for role players that won't help enough.
@Crivicus I could get down for a PvPRP server. Force pirates to actually have to negotiate/board, etc. When a player has more options to defend, as opposed to just getting rammed or utterly dunked on, PvP doesnt feel as bad.
Crimestat and prison exist. Just sayin.
@CitizenScott Both can be circumvented via ramming. Someone decides they want to use their ship as a missile just to fuck you over, there's nothing to stop them.
There needs to be an actual player bounty system, where players manually assign a bounty via a payout, each player that adds to the bounty report increases that payout. That promotes hunting griefers, as they have found ways to circumvent traditional bounty and crimestat systems already.
Thank you for taking the time to articulate your post and coming from your perspective.
On the topic of player experiences good/bad and bugs:
"It's ok for both to exist. People focus too much on one to prove a point."
You're really hitting the nail on the head there.
This is such a good interview/discussion! So many good points brought up that just speak directly to the zeitgeist of what's been the culmination of the 2024 year. I think the biggest thing with 4.0 is managing expectations on what was promised not just this year ... but as a whole of the last decade. You've both listed so many of the pain points. For so long, the tech was said to be the limiting factor and it's seemingly out of the way finally. Now, they need to deliver all these supporting game play systems and mechanisms that they promised. We need to see concrete steps forward.
Man I wish it was out of the way, but even though it’s definitely working, it still has a long way to go.
15:39 or if you conduct PvP in 'safe zones' there is more than just a crime stat or or ship getting shot at by the space-cops, you could do things like it lowering your faction reputations or even the the reputations of the guild your in. Reason to discourage people beyond in-game money.
What you are talking about was developp during the Citizencon😊
Or… and just hear me out here… or… people could protect themselves.
@@CitizenScott game designers will take the decision at the right time, soontm
I believe most people don't want PvP because they know the players are going to act out of character with the rest of the world that Star Citizen provides. Another thing is, you're going to see those that are excellent at PvP doing exploits to gain advantages in one way or another. Essentially most NPCs are fighting within the confines of the system, humans try to typically break those systems so playing against a player is going to be like a Dark Souls encounter in which PvE players are going to detest.
I really don't know a good way of balancing. EvE is balanced because things are straight up confined in that game. Versus this game where there are going to be way more variables.
I gank out of anger caused by people in bear masks acting out of character by jumping around and breaking my immersion.
the most annoying part of pyro, stanton and pvp is that there's no good way to talk in game. foxhole shows the power of voip and how it can make a 100% pvp game have moments of cooperation between enemies and halt ganking or have the social mmo story moments everyone craves from SC
I do like all this dreaming about what PvP could be, but the sad reality right now is that PvP is just kill on sight.
Imagine this, I land at an outpost and I get out my ship. I walk to the elevator console and observe an elevator go down slowly... now I put cargo on the elevator and now I have to watch an elevator slowly come up.
Meanwhile, a PvPer shows up... starts shooting me from the safety of his ship.
What can I do? What safety is there? I'm just roleplaying my profession and get clapped without any means of protection!
Now I made if off the surface? Hey, another PvPer? Boom get clapped. Now I lost my cargo, my entire day is ruined and what does the PvPer do? He just flies off because there is ZERO incentive for them to loot you.
That is what PvP is in the minds of everyone, you just kill other players and don't bother with anything else.
38:25 inter departmental comms is 100% not up to par. While it might not seem like a big deal to everyone you can still find corsair specs on their website telling people you get 6x guns as a pilot. As part of any changes to these ships, those pages need to reflect that. Changes ALL likely have a ticket/jira whatever. Part of those should have tasks for the marketing or equivalent team to make updates and scrub incorrect information.
Nah. They have ppl's money, they're not going to retrofit stuff like that
Thanks Xerostate for the shout out! I'm a 23 year old gamer that's excited about this game and I agree. I'd like to be able to play this game before I'm 35 too lol
Nope it's still 2024, but I do agree that 2025 must be of great impact for CIG. We can't have three back-to-back years of Core Tech development woes, delays, and failures.
I started playing in March and 4.0 has been pretty great. Usual issues with elevators at times, a wonky hanger or two, public chat failing, unsharable contracts, contracts not working... but.. man there's just something great about the ai working and even been aggressive, improved frame rates, and the look of pyro as a whole. Certainly I'm new in the scheme of things but I can but be hopeful for the future. SC just does something I've wanted in so many games over the years. There's moments of just pure awe at the systems at play and, when it works, it's just amazingly immersive.
Just do yourself a favour, and don't do anything other than spend money on the base game
@@stuartburns8657stay out his pockets. How does not spending money help? The game would never get funded without us financing the game. You just have to be adult and not cry about open development. Development is going to go on for forever in an online MMO. How does cutting the funding for it help? We wouldn’t be here without funding and game may crash without it and any money spent will be for nothing, even starter ship money. The argument of only buy a starter ship is self defeating. They ain’t going to be able to do anything faster just because funding drops. This conspiracy thinking is so missed placed and logically dumb.
Yeah.. dont spend more unless you want to. There are way more ships around then pilots or gunners.
Really good podcast! Love the conversation and level of keeping it real between Tomato and Xero.
i think the major flaw that all pvp players suffer from and this is a general across all mmorpg, they truly believe they are the center of the gaming universe. i think what cig did here with pyro is at best just a test to how poorly designed their mindset is behind pvp and how current in game systems or lack there of, leads to a toxic gaming experience. i agree with zero only in the idea you cant really seperate out pvp as a toggle switch, but that is it. the systems like pyro ultimately need systems in place like reputation that actually impact what you are doing and again will agree 100 percent with zero that systems like base defense and ai attack ships need to actually work and actually clear things out around key points. like for example jump points.
until that time comes the game is just straight up toxic filled pvp idiots who live to just troll people.
even with systems in place and content actually working i suspect cig will be very busy banning people for being idiots.
Or do nothing as long as ships sell.
I don't suspect that CIG thinking about PvP in terms of immediate dev goals at all, and I wouldn't blame them if it was put on the back burner. They still have to work out falling through planets and getting Quantum Drive to go where you want it, ffs.
But yeah, trolls are taking advantage, and I don't blame them. I just hope the message goes out for the miners and haulers out there that it's best to treat the experience as a bug testing build, stay in Stanton, have Nvidia instant replay running to record griefing as CIG defines it, and don't take it personally when they are taken advantage of for someone else's entertainment.
People say that it's the most ambitious game ever to maybe one day exist but at the end of the day, all we're doing is pushing pixels around on a screen. If a different game is less frustrating or provides a better experience, it's best to give your money to them instead.
Concerning the kitchen sink.. It sure would be cool to refill empty water containers with water from my sink~
Don't worry, CIG's hydration solutions tech is due to hit servers right after the survival mechanics update, which is due out in two years.
that WOULD be really cool.
As for a potential solution for better meshing between the teams would be for Chris to automate his vision through an internal only AI so he can be everywhere all the time. The game is built around him as it is, optimize for the model.
Gotta say. Those little Gatling turrets saved my life a couple times when I ran out of ammo...
Thanks!
7:50 same thing here, set spawn at checkmate, mess around for 2 days with almost no problems, jump to stanton and got interdicted around hurston by a gaurdian qi and 4 other players and got ganked
Ayyy my 2 favorite SC streamers!
As im listening to the podcast im getting reddit notifications that are literally "4.0 is the buggiest mess ever made" followed by "i am speechless!" and other posts that talk about how good 4.0 is
Both are true lol
60030 error , 5 days now with no access to my game :(
Go into arena commander keep changing the region your in there and going back to the main menu for the pu until you get the option to edit character, switch from male to female and try jump back on the pu
@@cblack3470 i will try
A guy i know has his character stuck on a shard. He was pissed and said that he wasn't going to put money into it...only to turn around spending money on an alt account. Missions are just pissing me off because a lot of them don't recognize your delivered or pickup cargo
35:00 I think the maelstrom tech is all being developed for sq42 right now, so we shouldn't expect it in the PU for quite some time.
Wow the copium, you've been saying that for 8 years
@@yous2244dude, literally no need to comment that… it makes sense it doesn’t matter how long it’s supposed been
@@williamhoney3827 it doesn't make sense, uts wrong
@williamhoney3827 what's actually wrong and what Cig really needs to do is fire half of its devs
@@yous2244 and I agree, CIG as a company is a mess right now… but replying with a negative response to a honest comment doesn’t make sense… we will see maelstrom in game eventually even if CIG keeps there devs. there’s no reason to get negative towards someone who has no active power with cig just because you are unhappy with the development path SC and SQ42 have taken
As 95% of my time in the verse being solo. The only times I’ve been griefed and or experienced PvP were on foot and due to things outside my control like being drugged and stripped of my gear in a station. Or it was due to me not paying attention. Whenever I’ve experienced PvP in a ship it was because I was looking for it. I really think it just comes down to luck and being vigilant and knowing what to avoid doing.
We also have to factor in that SQ42 is probably requiring less and less developer resources in its polishing phase, and that Static Server Meshing (sort of Part 1 of 2 of Server Meshing) is in and working. That'll free up capacity potentially allowing CIG to finally improve backstage things that have been lacking ever since 3.0 launched - cleanup processes to try and keep the entity count low(er) over time, horrendous NPC AI (includes turrets) and its complete inability to function during low server fps, long-standing bugs with elevators, hangar spawning, item persistence, falling through surfaces, ... overall I think, yes, SC can afford "just another year of development progress", and the gameplay aspects and content additions coming together will suffice to bring in new players and funding sufficient for 2026. 2026 is SQ42 release year.
The problem PVP avoidant players have with PvP isn't being impacted by others, it's the loss of time and possessions, and for some it's their anxiety and blood pressure.
SO arguing about how PVE actions for control of a station affecting others when they can no longer dock, while it IS technically PvP it's not in the realm of something the PvP averse will really care about because it can be corrected by PvE play.
Xero’s right. The economy itself, as it’s been presented, has major PvP elements.
When it comes to size of ship the Vulture is three feet longer than the landing pad it uses, not a problem until the Polaris and the bay is just a little to small, three feet to small. I would really like the vulture to lose those extra three feet.
I think it's cute Xero thinks most homicides in America get solved.
Approximately 58% of homicides in 2023 were "cleared" (solved) in the US. Lower than I thought, but still constitutes "most"...though it's been steadily declining (it was 65% in 2013).
But, it very much depends on where you live. Some places are like 80%, some places are more like 30% (Chicago is an example)
Also thanks for the cute compliment.
@@XeroStateLIVEI love that you took the time to look that up and answer this. 👍
So will we lose our ship if we crash it or a PVP or base turret takes it out? As in will it be gone and we will have to buy or build a new one?
Great show guys. The discussion was all rounded and enjoyable to listen to, especially the dangers of Pyro, SC would be boring with no PvP. It just the murder hobos need to be delt with, which give PvPers a bad name.
1:22 Engineering will change the game dramatically.
They just need to follow in Eve's footsteps regarding security and punishment for breaking the law.
I believe they said the squadron 42 prologue was built using maelstrom
About the work from home vs in-office thing: Imagie not knowing about screensharing lol
It is definitely too early for Pyro to do its job. Stanton lacks real security, and the economy isn't yet balanced for meaningful choices between the two systems. An even bigger missing feature is the removal of armistice zones. It's still too easy to feel safe in Pyro, and not enough reward for going there.
Need Stanton to ramp up its Security. Pyro is what it is a PVP lawless zone.
On the point of going to 1.0, they have to at-least have
a couple more systems ready to go for launch.
They must realise this, plus Terra for 1.0 would be a big boost for them and us.
The diffrence between Murder Hoboo and PVP for a reason, is one is doing it to get something. The fix is make ammo, missles and repairs costly. Also make claim timmers longer and not give you back ammo or missles. This would make the Murder Hoboo run out of money. Fines and paying gangs for access to landing spots, through Rep. We need more money sinks, this would make just being a Murder Hoboo not thecost effective in the long run.
Who said it was a problem?
@@CitizenScott So you think killing a minner over and over again with no reason is fun for both players? it is a game to have fun in. Now if you killed the minner for the ore or parts or salvage then that if PVP. I am saying PVP needs to be balance like all parts of a game if you do an action there needs to be a downside.
@@ianwilson4286 Well, losing is typically not fun for anyone, and the PvPers motivation doesn't change the outcome at all, so not sure what your issue is there, but that's not really the point.
I just see a lot of people like yourself talking as if PvP is a problem, when CIG have consistently said since day one up to now that even what you call "Murder Hoboo" is an intended part of the game. Many CIG devs play that way themselves, and they've built a whole Crimestat/Prison system around it to add fun and challenge to criminal gameplay.
So it kinda sounds like you just don't understand or like the game. Is that what you're saying?
@@CitizenScott Surveys show one quarter of players like PvP. The problem for CIG will be funding SC with just one quarter of players remaining.
Great show!
Yes, if you said no it’s because of your passion
A great look a refreshing view Sorry Xerostate I don't do twitch much as I catch it on RUclips later when I have the time but II'll look you up
Arena Commander will never suffice to meet the promise of private servers. Those of us who are interested in that aren't even looking for the entire back end to be there like CIG thinks when they tell us we'd never be able to run it; we're looking for something like ourselves and our friends on what would be at most two DGS at a time running, say, mining operations to and from the base we built. We're not looking to wander around the entire game with thousands of other players we don't even know; we want our small group to affect OUR world without some jerk with an A2 or a Polaris coming along and burning off some ordnance for kicks. We're not even opposed to PvP. We just don't want the random people coming along to gank/grief everyone in sight.
CIG has 1200 employees? That's ...something.
I've been playing since June of 2022. Honestly PVP needs to be left in the game and not be on separate servers. Mainly as Pyro is a high risk, high reward area. On the other topic, CIG needs to really get the basic gameplay ironed out for both new and old players. I agree, the game is not going to grow if they can't take care of the basics for people to play, they will attract and keep so many new players (the end result make even more money and have more backers) if the basic gameplay and things in game worked. That should really be the main focus.
Elite dangerous handles the pve experiemce perfectly because they have npc ships and npcs! Also pve players are forced to step out of their comfort to get the high rewards but pvp players are rewarded for staying in their comfort zone. Instead of forcing pvp players to go to high security for their high rewards where they are at risk
We all know it will be like every other year.
High expectations followed by disappointment
Now I don't know who will read this but, Stanton pyro who is safe, put one right in the middle 3 system's, can't shot in one, can't leave without your gun in another an just protect yourself in the middle...?
PvP should be in and the fact that you might get attacked is good it’s risk vs reward. And it’s also a mmo friends are good
I remember being wrong on the Internet once... ONCE.
I feel like its a good decision to use 2025 for improving stability,
However if they dont get this game pushed in the next few years its never gonna take flight.
Currently alot of the servers I’ve connected to have had a count of 300 ish each time
Do we even have a playerbase big enough to keep this game running when it launches
Ive hated on SC alot the past year or 2 because lets be honest they didnt do much but since 4.0 patch the performance improvments have been insane and the pvp element of pyro is going to create massive replayerbilty which this game needed i really do hope they polish there server meshing so that its backers can really start enjoying what they paid for!
Jesus Guys, you really look like just woke up without coffee😀
I don’t mind fighting PvE or PvP, but I’m not a fan of constantly being outnumbered in every PvP encounter when all the best gear is locked behind it. 😅
I had an Aurora for 10 years and the majority of patches there were issues with it, currently for a couple patches now where you cant load cargo. I did end up upgrading it to a 300i to enjoy it with my friends. I do regret it as no dev should be rewarded with additional oirchases with the new player experience being so poor with the one of the most purchased ships. I wont be outting more money into SC because of such a bad experience with my initial (and should have been only) ship purchase. Id be more inclined and feel positive to purchase an extra ship, likely a Hull A if my past experience was more positive. Fully aware its Alpha, but CGI is blatantly run by marketing to get the biggest ships out to sell rather than improve new player experience
I havent been able to log in for 3days 30060 and 30018 errors. Stuck in dead shard apparently
The servers are on fire, 50% of players locked out of the game, and the other 50% going hard on the dupe exploit.... Yeah, Things are looking pretty good...... this is just an ID10T error
Unfortunately Xero just defined any thing in game that affects another player is "PvP". So player driven economy is PvP. So SC is completely a PvP because the economy applies to everything.
Y’all are tripping. Pyro is and feels WAY more dangerous than Stanton.
this might also be somewhat skewed by the fact that a lot of players want to be in pyro right now (concentration is a bit higher, probably)
Yeah my experience so far and I've spent roughly 2/3 of my play time in pyro since 4.0 went to live preview, is I've been ganked and attacked way, waaaaay more often in stanton than I have in pyro. It's been an incredibly strange feeling for me.
Space should get a PVE focused guest on for their perspective. That said, Xerostate is very well balanced and reasoned. Great guest.
the normal IT employee does not work before 10 a.m. 🙂
1. where do you work
2. send job application
I hope 2025 will be like 2024, that is that the game improves as radically as it did this year !
Almost nothing changed in 2024...
@@fffx2 server meshing, cargo hauling, MFD, pyro, mobiglass, minimap, ...
AAAARRRR! beeing locked out for 5 days will make me the most evil pirate and all your cargos will be mine! No remorse =D
Station turrets in Pyro are brutal.
Can’t fk around them at all
Especially if they’re shooting ghost rounds at you and besides the flashing “hit” in the mfd, there are no indications or tracer rounds showing they are shooting
I love xerostate such an even tempered dude ❤. Also, podcast with two best easy listening radio voices in SC. I think the polarised opinions are because people do different content - 4.0 sandbox has improved, but 4.0 themepark/missions really suck l.
While most murder cases are solved, the rate is only 57%, so white true the statement it was attached to is unrealistic.
It’s the headphones lmao
The only 2 things of note this year were server meshing and cargo. 2025 needs to be much better.
Pyro? lol
Manually moving cargo into poorly designed holds isn't thrilling gameplay in many ppl's opinion
@Arms2 it's red stanton
@@fffx2 It wont be forever, and just the fact that we have 2 playable systems in game is pretty massive. The introduction of Pyro also means the introduction of jump gates, which is another big deal for the game.
@@Arms2 Pyro is just stanton with a different colour scheme and no law system.
I got nothin els ta do so, ... I started star citizen in November of 23 I turned 65 in November of 24 and I'm just hoping for 2025 a finished game, ... hay when I started I did not even have a gpu on this mini pc, ... was going to go through so much stuff to add gpu then ask geevs AI an wala I just ordered a dell thing i7 an gigabyte 3060 gpu I think. I don't know but AI did, ... the game looked good before my frame dropped to one. ... see you in a few weeks
In all the talk about what CIG wants, its wants will be trumped by how people are. There's ample evidence from multiple years and multiple games that some player styles are incompatible.
Some might call me a white knight. I backed in 2014 spent quite a bit on the game, play every patch for many hours. I have friends that would love this game, I won’t ask them to join due to the state of the game.
I absolutely hate Pyro. Don't get me wrong I play PVP in games like destiny and COD, I don't mind doing PVP when I know it's coming. Getting sniped or bombed just because I wanted to stroll around a planet to explore isn't fun for me. I'm fine with dealing with actual pirates because they just want either cargo or money and they'll leave me alone. I think what a lot of people in pyro think is PVP is just straight up griefing, they aren't after you're loot they don't want some epic battle, they just want you dead because they have nothing better to do. Also locking up the good guns and ship parts behind contested zones sucks. I understand the Lord of it, yeah cool, but if they want players to go get it at least make it doable. Having an org block the doors on both sides so no one can get in sucks. In my opinion I think it would be better if CZ were instanced. You don't fight player and NPCs instead just NPCs. They can make them tougher if they want but I think making it instances would make it easier for people that just PVE to come in get what they need and then get back to Stanton. I love this game and i want it to do well, but I've seen so many people in the Global chat and Reddit say they are leaving because of the state of Pyro or constantly getting killed for exploring. There are ways to do PVP but I don't think making an entire system PVP is it. That's just my opinion and I'll leave it at that.
60030 error has kept me out of 4.0 for the past week.
CIG wants to have its cake AND eat it, or in other parlance have your money and spend it. To speak to the whole wider issue discussed pvpve etc, the problem basically not to be confused with that it couldnt be done by anybody, its CIG cant make what is needed.
It can definitely "afford" it. 100M in funding yeah they might be able to scrape by
Dan Truffin left? That stinks, never heard that story…
I haven't played for a few yrs, until 4.0 came about - so I updated, it took a day or 2 for me to figure out I had to download the preview - haa! I found the gate and tried it - gosh it even took a few times just to get out of the apartment - then i was looking for this hanger folks were talking about - I was thinking of the hanger we had back when - but I have yet to find it - I own a bunch of goodies to decorate the hanger - is the hanger not out yet?? and also, the progress they got so far seems to me sq42 still has a lot more work I would think, yet they say sq42 is finished and in polished state and NPC are still F*cked up in the game just for staters ''I don't know''- For me it was like learning how to play again - the control keys seem to always change - I wish they would just keep to one set of controls - it would be nice if they give a option for single or mmo - we have sq42 as single - i wish we could continue the game as single into the Star citizen - that's just my opinion - ✌
It's a mess yes.
If it releases in 2026 I'll be amazed.
Correction, if it releases in 2026 in anything other than a broken mess I'll be amazed
@@stuartburns8657 we all will be -HAA! 1st chapter of sq42 they say 30hrs of gameplay -''Q'' is that actual gameplay or watching a movie with little gameplay?? ✌
@anthonyvasquez486 Certainly looked like a quick time event lol
Sinks are not a waste lol. That’s were all the juicy talk happens 🥴
doh! that's why I never get any of the good gossip. I'm always hanging around the water cooler alone :(
Pvp players need pve players to exist.
It's kinda crazy as a veteran player the amount of complaining about PVP, borderline griefing in Pyro... But as a new player, I can see why they could be frustrated with the experience.
I think it's the inevitable growing pains of having a system without the robust reputation system to make a place like Pyro a little more "safe".
But yeah, CIG has been talking Pyro up as a lawless, dangerous system for a decade lol I'm not a big PVP player, but I accept the game they are trying to build!
Nothing kinda matters to me right now but 60030...me and thousands of other people who havent been able to play for WEEKS. CIG???
Good chat!
There is so much effort of many to identify themselves as PvP or PvE, but I really believe most of us identify as both. Haulers enjoy the tranquility of solo play, but they sure enjoy competition with other haulers... miners, salvagers, explorers, everyone wants to brag about exploits in a way its compared to others efforts.
Combat in player versus players is specifically scary for a whole bunch of people because the systems are just not easy to understand. Too many secret details that give big advantages... time to kill is low so not a lot of ground to learn. And there is a smell of aggressiveness between styles, like "my team is better than yours", which does not help since we are pretty much the same team since we want the game out
You both nailed, the necessity for safety and danger so people can tip toe into different game styles and learn (focus on this word). Police must be gamified like in Ultima Online, you scream guard and they appear like a divine punishment in super safe systems... and a progressive downward efficiency toward dangerous zones
I am on mandatory star citizen leave at the moment due to 30018 & 60030 error. See guys in next patch hopefully. 😅
changing the game environment is not PVP. that's just a living universe. the station could flip allegance on a timer and it would have the same affect on pve player it would just be boring and i say that as someone who isn't into hardcore pvp
changing the game environment in a way that directly affects another player? PVP (in my opinion). at the very least, it creates an opportunity for players to "affect" other players even in a "PVE server" ...which creates issues of it's own
@ affecting someone isn’t PVP. If I trade in the auction house I affect people. That’s not PVP.
I prefer PvE but I am not opposed to keeping my ears on to join a defense sortie. The melded PvE/PvP system design, as it it stands, doesn't work without real world organized crime. Don't dig too deep into the goings on at Eve Online or Nintendo.
PVE servers will kill the game and CIG knows it very well
First!
Looking pretty good???😂😂😂😂
What game are you talking about? People can’t even log in to play
To be clear, what I want and what I feel is inevitable are entirely separate things. I agree with Xero, basically. However, 12:00 onward. PvE servers will be designed, ideally, such that their server meshing allows for challenging PvE combat. More dangerous systems would still be more dangerous, again ideally, as a result of more frequent attacks, stronger ships, and better application of the AI's capabilities. Regarding station control, that would simply be one of the drawbacks to residing in more dangerous space; it would be PvP-via-PvE. Capture and control nodes, then have a timer where players are guaranteed control for X number of days (or whatever duration) before it's opened to the possibility of control. This could even be the PvP flag option where if you choose to control a station or settlement in one of those null sec systems then you are opting into PvP, and your PvP Enabled flag turns on during the limited window where control of locations can change hands.
Yep. That sounds like the PvP slider set to PvE.
I also agree with Xero that Pyro is fine, it's the lack of security in Stanton where in places where it's supposed to be in Stanton that's the issue.
Even going to the extreme with separate servers, Escape from Tarkov has a PvE mode with a separate player flea market and it's been a completely fine experience for me. Buzzcutpsycho has a great take that the problem that some PvE miners and haulers have is that the SC is building a low trust society that precipitates from factionless PvP.
omg.. Tomato... Pyro is not "end game" stop saying this.. lol
Yes it is, the lore indicates it will not be a valible place to be but an place to over come to get to better places if you choose too. It will be the only place the criminals can be safe from UEE, bounty hunters will have to work hard to get a high end bounty. They will have to battle NPC an other players for resources in Pyro.
@@wraith511802003 Being "risky" doesn't automatically mean it is "end game"... End game means you will need to have achieved multiple difficult achievements in order to be able to then proceed to this "end game" content and be successful... Being in Pyro is not "end game" .. There will be end game content in all the systems I am sure. Pyro is a starting location for goodness sakes. Trying to argue that the entire system is "end game" is literally the dumbest thing when it says its not right on the menu of the darn game. Major *eye roll*
If one PVE player flipping a statrion's alignment is PVP against another PVE player, then Elite Dangerous solo mode is till PvP. You can still affect the background simulation, you can still affect trade prices and supply & demand, you can still Unknown Artifact bomb stations and repair those stations with meta alloys (I think? It's been a while since that has happened I think), you can still participate in powerplay, etc etc etc.
I hear the argument you are making, but your argument is self defeating because the only logical conclusion is that there *is no such thing* as pve only servers, so *no one can get mad about* pve only servers. If you don't think players should be able to opt out of PVP then great, by your own logic they aren't, even if they want to play in solo mode. Sounds good, everyone gets what they want. Solo players can play solo and PvP players can still PvP against the solo players (in a small way).
Remember when distribution centers were the upcoming pvp/mission gameplay?
I want a solo version of SC and settings to custom it for me. Period!!
As a 10+ year backer, jumping into 4.0 was a blast, I did a bunker mission and for the first time ever for me, the AI behaved like AI, they shot at me, pursued, and didn't shoot at the walls, it sounds small but that really made me think 2025 was going to be special with the server tech in place
Pyro is not going to be the way it is now when the other systems are in. Pyro is a wasteland, nothing there should be valuable. It is a safe place for the criminals who don't want UEE life.
It will be a short cut to other locations, but not a destination, an will be just a place for the PVP edge lords to pretend they are winning in a game that does not have a win state.
Star citizen developers need to ignore both pve and pvp players. Chris roberts needs to make the game that he invisioned. If you dont like the game play something else. As for 2025 we need them to pick it up. They cant survive much longer waiting indefjnitely.
CIG can probably afford to have as many "just another years" as it needs.
Anecdotally, I don't think I've ever seen as many e mails from RSI. The product hasn't been exciting to play last year, which I think was reflected in the slight downturn in sales numbers.
But they still have a lot of features to make & old ones to refactor, several years of work before this comes out of early access.
They should be slashing features, but they aren't. They'll continue to move along at whatever pace they can achieve. There will be no big moment where SC wins/fails. It won't die or succeed in 12 months. It'll either slowly improve and ramp up. Or active players, funding & staffing will decrease until it just falls into obscurity.
Okay doomer.
Xerostate is way over complicating pvp. “Ohh changing the political alignment of this and that would be like turning a gun on a player and you used the game to PvP! Ohh towing is PvP”. No really it’s not. That becomes environment and towing your shit is some you can avoid simply by putting your shields on. You have a bias, xero. You’re seeing this through the lense of someone wanting to be allowed to hurt others. You are on a platform that delivers you voice to devs and the greater community. Chill out just because there are pve servers doesn’t mean you can’t have your pvp.
Ironic that one of the things I talk about in this podcast is how industry and PVE players should have a good experience, and PVE-focused players should have safe place they can go to relax. One of my favorite things the game has done pretty well so far is mining and salvage.
You have no idea how players could affect the playspace in a "PVE server" in order to "proxy PVP" - my argument is that CIG should avoid creating that issue by making a game where PVE-focused players can feel safe, giving them an actual "PVE space" rather than arbitrary "PVE servers"
@ Thanks for taking the time to read and reply. The safe space approach is a bit like shoving people onto a reservation. My problem w being jumped when I’m not participating in that kind of game play is that especially in this game it is costing the attacked player time. Time is the most valuable resource in existence. When a player kills another in game yea it’s just a game, however they did steal someone’s time from them which is not ok. Shoving people onto a reservation and saying here you go here’s your SC experience and get F’d if you want to go and explore or play the rest of the game because everywhere else people a free to inflict harm w impunity. ED as you mentioned does a great job of this w separate servers. You are able to effect the economy, pledge and support political factions etc just the same as in the PvP version. Why would that not work here?