I bought the QS138 kit with the 60 amp hour battery from Electro & Co. I put it in my CRF250L frame and the bike comes in at 305 lbs with wind shield , hand guards and crash bars, ( I;m 75 and I need a bit more protection) . The bikes street legal, but I still ride off road on week ends. This bike has extended my riding life and is soooo smooth. I really like being able to hear the birds on slower trail rides. I also like the power delivery. It' way easier to ride than the old CRF 250 L. I wish they had the 75 amp hour battery when I bought the kit, but I guess I'll wait until they come out with a 120 amp battery that's the same size as mine. It may be awhile. Really enjoyed the comparison, mines no Yamaha, but it really makes me smile. Aloha Pat
Another great video, Tucker. I would love to see a range comparison between the Varg and EMX. I currently have a Varg and use it for hard enduro and single track. I love the idea of the EMX for its lighter weight but even with a swappable battery my rides don't often loop back to the truck. So if the range was comparable between the two, I'd think hard about finding a YZ rolling chassis. Looking forward to a range comparison particularly in mountain single track. I can get 40 miles comfortably on my Varg starting the ride at about 100% and ending at 10%. Since my weight and riding style are not the same as yours Tucker, I'd like to see that comparison with you on both bikes hitting single track. Could be very eye opening for me. Thanks again for all the great content.
I would love to see your Varg when you ride Hard Enduro. I think Hard Enduro would kill the Varg. The Varg has virtually no battery protection in the front and I want to see how you ride it up big tree trunks, ride rocky fields, ravines, ... The YZ EMX is the best for me because it has a full Enduro frame with perfect protection for the engine and battery. The advantage is that other smaller 72V batteries can also be used, e.g. from Talaria, Surron, .... which also fits in the frame. For MX the Varg is well built, but for hard Enduro it's a bad concept = bad frame and protection
@@JaneKLX agreed the protection is lacking. In my experience the bike is phenomenal in hard enduro. But it's my only electric bike. I have seen guys with some sort of plastic cover over the battery to protect it. But so far it's not been an issue for me. Finding other protection bits has been a challenge. But they are out there.
At the current sale price it seems like the the Varg is a the obvious choice. With the Varg at MSRP the YZ-E deserves a hard look provided you're open to a bit of a project. I was intrigued by the Arctic Leopard until I saw one in person. The quality is simply not there for the money. Ultra Bee quality is significantly better. Stark Varg quality is the best in the business. The YZ-E advantages are parts availability and likely easier DIY repairs down the road along with the slightly lower weight. I still don't think it's worth doing with the current Varg pricing. Varg also has a two year warranty that the company has been very good about.
If you do it yourself you can convert way cheaper. My 2020 CRF build all in with a 30 hour roller is just under $4k. The fab work is honestly pretty easy.
their $3200 60AH at 76V is still only 4.5kwh, quite a bit less than the Stark’s 6.5 when range is the limiting factor for this market. Maybe it’s the even smaller 48AH that you were thinking about being $2k?
@davidawaters yeah I agree which is why I didn't even bother to reply. I ride trails. I need the biggest battery i can get. Absolutely zero chance I could build anything even remotely useful for 4k.
The result i would expect. The Alta MXR is still a great bike, and an absolutely bargain value if you can get one for less than 7k. The Varg is on a planet of its own though! Swappable battery isn't a deal breaker for me as I'm typically tired before the bike is spent. If Varg had a little faster charging it would be even better. Kudos to Electro and Co for offering a competitive option that slots between!
You can set the varg phone to auto-update the system and apps. It might help your issues. Also, it's an old version of Android so rebooting often would probably help.
If so, it will be a very complex concept with water cooling, ... The YZ EMX is a simple and smart concept where the motor costs 500-700 dollars. This machine is so simple, it couldn't be simpler. The purchase price is not important to me. More importantly, how much does the material cost for service and maintenance, how much does another set of plastics cost. How much does a graphics kit cost? This is on the YZ EMX side. I will buy everything for it and everywhere very cheaply, I will do the service myself at home. But Varg, Alta, ... ???? The new electric factory Honda, Yamaha, KTM, .... will be very expensive for everything and for the hobbyist it will all be very expensive.
Great job guys. Comparison videos are where the most learning happens. I missed knowing what the actual weight with a full tank of electrons were for each bike and also wondered how much an original 250 YZF weighs compared to the Electro conversion. Would have been awesome to have the YZ gasser in the ride comparison too but that might be another video. Looking forward to my Dust Moto next year which might be more of a midsize bike with target weight of 200 lbs but track capable too. Thanks again for focusing on the electrics.
Hello ECR, I hope you'll be able to get your hands on the new KTM Freeride E and its sister bike Husqvarna Pioneer. It will be interesting to see if they have different characters while sharing the same platform. Keep up the great work!
I don't have any issues with the phone/app on mine. I've had it for over a year, and at one point it lost connectivity with the bike after an update, but support sorted that one out quickly
There aren't any big problems, it's the frequent small hiccups that are frustrating: sometimes the bluetooth loses the bike as a saved profile, sometimes the app freezes, sometimes it doesn't record rides, sometimes it looses the map presets, sometimes the phone just overheats. The problem is a low end phone combined with a not very good optimized app. I have a stark too, and i got it more than an year ago. Fortunately the app can be improved
Mine flies out after occasional big hits. Even after double checking the mount it doesn’t make a difference. Leads me to back tracking 20-30 minutes each time to hunt down where it landed on the trail
It be fun if you guys would do a review on the Lizcat conversion kit for the Yz 250 or 450. It is a bit pricy tho, but it looks really good once converted.
I’ve never once had to log back in to my stark phone . And have never heard of this happening to anyone else …. The phone charges in the dock so I don’t know what yorue talking about their either. . Worst thing I’ve had with phone is 2 tiles out of 40 hours I didn’t connect to Bluetooth after an update and I just held 2 buttons and did a hard reset on bike and it was fixed . I think you guys are doing something wrong or being a bit dramatic
Phone works fine on my Varg. You don't even really need it. It operates fine without but you don't have you battery level info. Also the weight difference over the YZ-E is simply battery size. Why no range test? The giant battery in the Varg is barely adequate for any off road riding.
I won't touch anything Electro & Co sells they burned me with their EMXron kit. What about the Storm Bee? It'a fullsized and has swappable battery. There is also the Zero FX (with the chain conversion). I own a Redshift SM and I've ridden a Varg and Redshift EX and they seem very similar to me. But I didn't have a lot of time with them and not back to back.
Great question and we considered mentioning this in the video but the Surron Storm Bee and the KTM Freeride are close but just not up to the task of real MX riding (without modification) - we had to test bikes that could handle it in stock form.
It was great to see a shootout in NorCal at Riverfront MX and Georgetown OHV! I really wish the range issue could be addressed sooner than later so I can ride an eMoto on longer rides or days at the track. Until that happens, the ICE bikes will have a place in the garage. For me, the sweet spot would be, at least, 50 miles of range at a weight of 230-235. In short, can't wait until eMotos can go head-to-head with a competition ICE bike. The Varg comes close and I really like it but it's not always practical to charge at the track or trail and the range is too limiting for all-day rides.
50 miles @ 230 lbs. I'm trying to find one that'll go 35 miles ridden aggressively. 35 to 50 will be a H-U-G-E (multi-year decades?, orders of magnitude) technological step. Rapidly improving battery technology is the biggest lie of the past 50 years. Maybe?? your grandson will have that bike, but it won't be in our lifetime.
@@Mauipat I saw a video of someone with a 12Kw Ultra Bee with a 5.5Kwh battery barely make 35 miles in a not particularly hilly race. What are your bike's Kw & Kwh, & are you talking 45 - 50 miles in a race ridden by an expert level rider ? At 230 lbs you're back to riding 300 sized bikes & I 've done that & not interested in a 38" seat height for technical 15 -35mph woods riding. I want something about the size of an Ultra Bee (36" seat height/ 180 lbs) with 15 - 20Kw that can be raced 35 miles.
We agree the Ultra Bee is a great bike but we consider the Ultra Bee to be a mid size bike, this is the full size shootout. Mid Size Shootout is next, stay tuned!
I bought the QS138 kit with the 60 amp hour battery from Electro & Co. I put it in my CRF250L frame and the bike comes in at 305 lbs with wind shield , hand guards and crash bars, ( I;m 75 and I need a bit more protection) . The bikes street legal, but I still ride off road on week ends. This bike has extended my riding life and is soooo smooth. I really like being able to hear the birds on slower trail rides. I also like the power delivery. It' way easier to ride than the old CRF 250 L. I wish they had the 75 amp hour battery when I bought the kit, but I guess I'll wait until they come out with a 120 amp battery that's the same size as mine. It may be awhile. Really enjoyed the comparison, mines no Yamaha, but it really makes me smile. Aloha Pat
Another great video, Tucker. I would love to see a range comparison between the Varg and EMX. I currently have a Varg and use it for hard enduro and single track. I love the idea of the EMX for its lighter weight but even with a swappable battery my rides don't often loop back to the truck. So if the range was comparable between the two, I'd think hard about finding a YZ rolling chassis.
Looking forward to a range comparison particularly in mountain single track. I can get 40 miles comfortably on my Varg starting the ride at about 100% and ending at 10%. Since my weight and riding style are not the same as yours Tucker, I'd like to see that comparison with you on both bikes hitting single track. Could be very eye opening for me. Thanks again for all the great content.
I second this request. The review was great, but range was missing.
I would love to see your Varg when you ride Hard Enduro.
I think Hard Enduro would kill the Varg. The Varg has virtually no battery protection in the front and I want to see how you ride it up big tree trunks, ride rocky fields, ravines, ...
The YZ EMX is the best for me because it has a full Enduro frame with perfect protection for the engine and battery. The advantage is that other smaller 72V batteries can also be used, e.g. from Talaria, Surron, .... which also fits in the frame.
For MX the Varg is well built, but for hard Enduro it's a bad concept = bad frame and protection
@@JaneKLX agreed the protection is lacking. In my experience the bike is phenomenal in hard enduro. But it's my only electric bike. I have seen guys with some sort of plastic cover over the battery to protect it. But so far it's not been an issue for me. Finding other protection bits has been a challenge. But they are out there.
At the current sale price it seems like the the Varg is a the obvious choice. With the Varg at MSRP the YZ-E deserves a hard look provided you're open to a bit of a project.
I was intrigued by the Arctic Leopard until I saw one in person. The quality is simply not there for the money. Ultra Bee quality is significantly better. Stark Varg quality is the best in the business. The YZ-E advantages are parts availability and likely easier DIY repairs down the road along with the slightly lower weight. I still don't think it's worth doing with the current Varg pricing. Varg also has a two year warranty that the company has been very good about.
If you do it yourself you can convert way cheaper. My 2020 CRF build all in with a 30 hour roller is just under $4k. The fab work is honestly pretty easy.
@@RMZ298$4k? A decent sized battery costs most of $4k
@@davidawaters The electro and co ones are around $2k, you can get similar from Amorge for $1k or build your own.
their $3200 60AH at 76V is still only 4.5kwh, quite a bit less than the Stark’s 6.5 when range is the limiting factor for this market. Maybe it’s the even smaller 48AH that you were thinking about being $2k?
@davidawaters yeah I agree which is why I didn't even bother to reply. I ride trails. I need the biggest battery i can get. Absolutely zero chance I could build anything even remotely useful for 4k.
Great review, makes me want to order the electro and co kit today.
Looking forward to seeing how long it takes to install the YZEMX kit. I’d also love to see that bike put on a scale⚖️
I was Smiling from ear to ear just from the thumbnail 👍👍
The result i would expect. The Alta MXR is still a great bike, and an absolutely bargain value if you can get one for less than 7k. The Varg is on a planet of its own though! Swappable battery isn't a deal breaker for me as I'm typically tired before the bike is spent. If Varg had a little faster charging it would be even better. Kudos to Electro and Co for offering a competitive option that slots between!
Seems I've been lucky with the phone/app on my Varg. While I don't love it I've not had any problems with it.
Wow, finicky tech for the Stark is the Achilles. Being light weight is definitely a plus, especially after a long day of riding.
You can set the varg phone to auto-update the system and apps. It might help your issues. Also, it's an old version of Android so rebooting often would probably help.
Will Yamaha or Honda ever release an equivalent electric dirt bike?
Iv'e seen the Honda electric bike. I expect you will see CF MOTO come first.
Eventually, they will have to. Electric tech has too many advantages to ignore.
Yes but who knows when
If so, it will be a very complex concept with water cooling, ...
The YZ EMX is a simple and smart concept where the motor costs 500-700 dollars. This machine is so simple, it couldn't be simpler.
The purchase price is not important to me. More importantly, how much does the material cost for service and maintenance, how much does another set of plastics cost. How much does a graphics kit cost? This is on the YZ EMX side. I will buy everything for it and everywhere very cheaply, I will do the service myself at home. But Varg, Alta, ... ????
The new electric factory Honda, Yamaha, KTM, .... will be very expensive for everything and for the hobbyist it will all be very expensive.
It’s called the Honda CRE!🫶🏻❤️
Great job guys. Comparison videos are where the most learning happens. I missed knowing what the actual weight with a full tank of electrons were for each bike and also wondered how much an original 250 YZF weighs compared to the Electro conversion. Would have been awesome to have the YZ gasser in the ride comparison too but that might be another video. Looking forward to my Dust Moto next year which might be more of a midsize bike with target weight of 200 lbs but track capable too. Thanks again for focusing on the electrics.
Thank you Tucker!!
Hello ECR, I hope you'll be able to get your hands on the new KTM Freeride E and its sister bike Husqvarna Pioneer. It will be interesting to see if they have different characters while sharing the same platform. Keep up the great work!
I don't have any issues with the phone/app on mine. I've had it for over a year, and at one point it lost connectivity with the bike after an update, but support sorted that one out quickly
awesome vid!
100 hours on my Stark, never have I had any issues with the stark app or phone. So what’s the deal?
There aren't any big problems, it's the frequent small hiccups that are frustrating: sometimes the bluetooth loses the bike as a saved profile, sometimes the app freezes, sometimes it doesn't record rides, sometimes it looses the map presets, sometimes the phone just overheats. The problem is a low end phone combined with a not very good optimized app. I have a stark too, and i got it more than an year ago. Fortunately the app can be improved
Mine flies out after occasional big hits. Even after double checking the mount it doesn’t make a difference. Leads me to back tracking 20-30 minutes each time to hunt down where it landed on the trail
@@roadrenegade9349 the easiest solution to drive without a phone
You should test the yz again with the that zapper controller. I think it will have more power.
I think that this engine can produce 35-37 hp on a Dyno stand, no matter what controller is installed there
The Artic Leapords are sick
It be fun if you guys would do a review on the Lizcat conversion kit for the Yz 250 or 450. It is a bit pricy tho, but it looks really good once converted.
Awesome video, care to share the name of the trail? I'm always in the El Dorado forest camping with my bike
Nvm I found it lol
Great review!!!
I think you would also need to see about the local support for making that decision as well.
Dang... you were in my area!
Storm Bee? Altis Sigma? Mototec Venom?
The Altis is a mini bike
RANGE?
Stark all the way.
I’ve never once had to log back in to my stark phone . And have never heard of this happening to anyone else …. The phone charges in the dock so I don’t know what yorue talking about their either. . Worst thing I’ve had with phone is 2 tiles out of 40 hours I didn’t connect to Bluetooth after an update and I just held 2 buttons and did a hard reset on bike and it was fixed . I think you guys are doing something wrong or being a bit dramatic
I also found it strange
Phone works fine on my Varg. You don't even really need it. It operates fine without but you don't have you battery level info. Also the weight difference over the YZ-E is simply battery size. Why no range test? The giant battery in the Varg is barely adequate for any off road riding.
You do not need the phone to ride the stark lmao😂
I agree, the problem is out of nowhere. Just leave your phone and drive without it.
10:44 Rode with this dude at Carnage ⚡️
Top end has 400 hrs on it. 😂 😂😂 Great video, would be fun to do the YZ EMX kit build.
Lots of disrespect to the Alta. It's got 50hp, in map 4 it hauls @ss. Best bike I've ever ridden by far.
I want to see a video about the new Husqvarna Pioneer
I won't touch anything Electro & Co sells they burned me with their EMXron kit. What about the Storm Bee? It'a fullsized and has swappable battery. There is also the Zero FX (with the chain conversion). I own a Redshift SM and I've ridden a Varg and Redshift EX and they seem very similar to me. But I didn't have a lot of time with them and not back to back.
What city/state you in? You in nor cal?
We did the test at Riverfront MX and Georgetown!
Best electric bikes for hard enduro. That is where arcric leopard belongs. It is not an mx bike. And do a range comparison also.
Modded Surron Storm could not make the list?
Great question and we considered mentioning this in the video but the Surron Storm Bee and the KTM Freeride are close but just not up to the task of real MX riding (without modification) - we had to test bikes that could handle it in stock form.
@@ElectricCycleRider the Yamaha is hardly “stock” form.
range ??
🐝🏁 Video 👍
Forgot about the storm bee
I mean noises coming from Chinese built bikes we would expect that lower quality, yamaha's chassis would be on another dimension
It was great to see a shootout in NorCal at Riverfront MX and Georgetown OHV! I really wish the range issue could be addressed sooner than later so I can ride an eMoto on longer rides or days at the track. Until that happens, the ICE bikes will have a place in the garage. For me, the sweet spot would be, at least, 50 miles of range at a weight of 230-235. In short, can't wait until eMotos can go head-to-head with a competition ICE bike. The Varg comes close and I really like it but it's not always practical to charge at the track or trail and the range is too limiting for all-day rides.
Great job on the video guys!
50 miles @ 230 lbs. I'm trying to find one that'll go 35 miles ridden aggressively. 35 to 50 will be a H-U-G-E (multi-year decades?, orders of magnitude) technological step. Rapidly improving battery technology is the biggest lie of the past 50 years.
Maybe?? your grandson will have that bike, but it won't be in our lifetime.
I've gotten 70 miles on an easy ride on my converted CRF250L, and on Hard rides I get between 45, and 50 miles.
@@Mauipat I saw a video of someone with a 12Kw Ultra Bee with a 5.5Kwh battery barely make 35 miles in a not particularly hilly race. What are your bike's Kw & Kwh, & are you talking 45 - 50 miles in a race ridden by an expert level rider ?
At 230 lbs you're back to riding 300 sized bikes & I 've done that & not interested in a 38" seat height for technical 15 -35mph woods riding. I want something about the size of an Ultra Bee (36" seat height/ 180 lbs) with 15 - 20Kw that can be raced 35 miles.
Is it just my RUclips or are the timestamps wonky?
Besides the Yamaha isn’t a legit bike from Yamaha….but it’s time for them to get in the game and Honda to release theirs
But they're nice
Can you consider manufacturing location? I only want to look at bikes made in North America or Europe
Why do you need Tucker to do this for you? The list of bikes that meet this requirement is quite short...just buy a Varg.
The dangerous part is nobody. Here you're coming. Down the trail
They'll see your dust cloud
My varg is by no means quiet. Only if there are other load bikes around.
🤙🏽⚡️🤟🏽⚡️👌🏽
ultra bee all the way
We agree the Ultra Bee is a great bike but we consider the Ultra Bee to be a mid size bike, this is the full size shootout. Mid Size Shootout is next, stay tuned!
@@ElectricCycleRider In addition to the Ultra Bee, is there any other mid size bike?
@@ElectricCycleRiderDon't forget the Sirris upgraded Ultra Bee vs Stark on trails.
@@ElectricCycleRider Looking forward to that!
Surrons are kids toys
Awesome review!