I worked at the Clam Lake site. There were NO M-16s. It was run by civilian contractors...no Navy personnel on site. The antenna cables were considerably larger in diameter than that ground wire shown. The Laurentian Shield's low conductivity did indeed make the antenna a bit more "efficient" by forcing the signals to go deeper into the Earth. As the current flowed deeper, at some point the current would be able to flow from one grounded end of an antenna, through the Earth and then back to the opposite grounded end of that antenna, essentially forming a loop antenna. Also, contrary to popular belief, was that ELF could order the subs to launch nuclear weapons. It could not. It basically sent the same 3 digit code 24/7 and for lack of a better term, indicated "all clear". You could physically hear the MSK and after a short time, we learned the rhythm of it's sound, droning on day after day. Just prior to the first shots of the first Gulf War, I was working and the sound changed dramatically and the 3 digit code was different. I knew something was up, just not what it was. All ELF was intended for was to cause the sub to go up to receive orders from systems that was much faster than the 4-8 BAUD rate of the ELF MSK signal.
Very interesting. In fact, such a so slow short message of 3 bytes could in fact send a great variety of alert ground status message. And I think it was really the case... Indeed we perceive the good and powerful American (and also British) ears since iiww. As an old German captain said to an American admiral on board of the nuclear submarine SSNR Seaview "you have developed wonderful machines... ... I wonder where they will lead you..." more or Iess like this... Brasil
A baud rate of 4 to 8 means there is no way it took 15 minutes to send a 3 character code! BAUDOT uses a 5 bit per character format. At 4 baud, 3 characters could be sent in 4 seconds for example.
In the mid 80's I was a Second Mate (Navigator) on a small research ship researching submarine communications in the Med. and North Atl. I wasn't a researcher, I just navigated the ship's speed and direction as per orders from the researchers below decks. We would move at about 2 to 5 knots for a while then change directions. We did, however attract Soviet spy ships that trailed us at a distance of about 8 to 10 miles. The researchers said that they are too far away to learn anything. And, we attracted whales. Giant whales would come up and swim along side our ship as we drifted along. One really big one stayed with us for a day, roll to one side once and a while and he would look up at us. I still remember staring into that big whale eye looking up at me.
Related....in the late 1980's, I worked for a defense contractor who had a contract with the Navy for a communications buoy on the Poseidon and Trident submarines. This was not ELF but for several other frequencies. The subs could deploy the buoy from depth....it was leashed to the boat by a heavy steel cable, and electrical/signal cabling bound to the cable. Behind the sail, there was a large hydraulically -operated reel which stored and deployed the cable. The reel and the communications buoy were housed in a fiberglass "pod" with two opening door panels. The doors were opened, the cable payed out and thr buoyant buoy would rise to the surface. The radio communications would occur and then the bouy would be wound back down. Our shop within the company produced the buoy itself. It was about the size and shape of a two person Zodiak skiff...but with an integral top deck. There were numerous antennae and stuff inside. There were two flotation tanks....about 12" diameter and maybe 8' long that provided the main flotation. They were manufacturered elsewhere to high tolerances. They were filled with air and had an explosive cap. If the cable ever severed, thr caps would blow, seawatt would infiltate the tanks and sink the buoy to prevent it from getting into enemy possession. Pretty cool stuff. Messy, fairly toxic work.
Very interesting. I was on board the a sub that received some of the first test ELF transmissions. We did it on our return trip from the Med in late 1972. Engineers brought their special equipment on board and we "stopped" at predetermined spots in the north Atlantic to test reception. The engineers were very pleased with the results, so pleased, that we cut the experiment short and headed home to New London early. The boat was SSN 606, USS Tinosa.
There’s a plan in the works to try to set up ELF systems around Lake Superior. My grandpa was a biology professor who not only really cared and fought for the upper peninsulas Pristine nature to stay in tact and non adulterated, but wrote and published his own textbook that’s still taught, created and invested in the biology dpt, who I’ve met many students of his who tel me that he inspired their care and love for biology, which still has students in memory of him today attending. One of their recent projects is protesting the Project Elf that the government claims will help keep us safe in a nuclear attack, but many are arguing that it won’t serve much use, and serves more of a risk to nature and wildlife. I see a lot of knowledgeable, well informed, first hand experienced people in the comments here and was wondering if anybody could help give me insight to as if this is still a meaningful/useful technology, and maybe insight as to any known effects the infastructure/frequencies/stations may have on the surrounding areas! I’d love to hear any feedback or ideas! Thanks in advance!
Mike: An excellent video about the Sanguine system. Back in the in the late 60ies & early seventies, I was the system operator /technician on several Canadian registered A/C . DHC-3's known as a "single Otter" because it had one radial engine, several PBY-5A (Catalina) , Norman-Britain Islander, , DHC-2 "Beaver" & possibly others, flying airborne geophysical survey in Wisconsin & the upper peninsula of Michigan. We were contracted by a suite of US mining & exploration companies. I was unaware of Project Sanguine, & on a fine Sept. morning we took off to fly an area about 100 miles long by 70 miles wide, with lines separated by 1/4 mile. . On the 2nd or 3rd line we crossed a gap in forest & the equipment went crazy. ! We flew on heading about 1/2 a mile, possibly a little less & normal ops returned. I ran confidence tests on the equipment & all was well . We were flying a Catalina flying boat which has a 104 foot wingspan & we had a loop that ran from the nose of the A/C to one wingtip, & from that wingtip to the top of the vertical fin on the tail, to the other wingtip, & from there to the nose. That huge loop was our "antenna". We had a transmitter that supplied pulses of 330 Hz energy to the loop antenna, & in between Tx pulses our receiver "listened" for a return from the ground. Depending on what ores we were looking for we chose frequencies between 30 & 915 Hz, carefully avoiding power line frequency, or multiples of same. On our return flight a 1/4 mile west of our original line I watched carefully the equipment went crazy again & looking out the window, We appeared to be flying over a power line. Our receiver had filters for 60hz, so I couldn't figure out why the "power line " was interfering with our gear. I called the pilot & told him to break the line & turn back to the power line & turn to fly up or down the line. We were flying at 200ft AGL, & He had to climb to about 500 ft before I could measure the frequency. The frequency appeared to be 75 Hz. I had the pilot fly us back to the airport ( it was south & west a few miles from K.I.Sawyer AFB. I made several phone calls enquiring about any non 60 Hz powerline frequencies. I was assured that there were no power lines anywhere in the state that weren't 60 Hz. I made a call to one of my RCAF buddies & after I answered several questions he gave me the dope on "Sanguine". I went into town to a Radio Shack & purchased several op amps & I built a filter board to put in the receiver. I put a 4 stage notch filter in the receiver centered on 75 Hz, It really made a difference, but I tuned above and below 75 Hz., & discovered that 76 Hz worked best. We took off in the A/C & flew directly to the Sanguine antenna, & I had ridded the signal of almost all the interference....at least 95%. The client never complained about a "dirty " signal, so all was well. I noticed that a few responders were on the DEW line. I spent a few years at Komakuk Beach, Cambridge Bay, & Hall Beach, also known as Fox 58. Great video mike. Cheers! Brian, VE6XX/VE7CRA ex VE8DX. I will be 83 in July, & it is great to see how many of us old guys are still around
I'm 76 and a former US Navy Radioman 2nd class. I was stationed at the NAVCOMSTA base in Iceland in 1966 /67 where I remember participating in this program which was especially interesting because my initials are ELF ! My involvement was while working at a receiver complex and antenna farm known as Garrity. I was only told the name of the program and what my assignment was, to pick up a signal in Iceland relayed from a submerged submarine, to a helicopter and then to eventually to me after which it would be relayed to Thurso Scotland. I successfully picked up the signal, so did Thurso and I don't know anything else.
As a ham I became aware of ELF in the mid 60's. I remember a project where a few of us modified an audio music amplifier to act as a 16KC receiver with a tuned front end circuit and rectifier and then a mixer stage in the output fed to a detector and headphones.. Low frequency noise was a problem but we detected a deep hum by using the electric fence around an 80 acre field as the antenna, which we believed was the ELF transmission. It would have been easier to prove if it was if they had down time (ran 24/7) so we could be sure that is what the hum we heard, was. k8do
I was a young lad, but well into electronics. I remember reading about this somewhere and building a receiver. Not having a 'natural' antenna like a fence I started to bury a wire around the property line on out subdivision-sized lot. Dad came out and asked what I was doing, he was retired COMSEC with the AF and he already knew something about it. IIRC part of the rcvr was from a 100-in-1 Radio Shack Electronics kit and a transistor radio provided another part. Too many years and miles to remember more...73!
This was an great video! Really filled in the background from my submarine days as a radioman. The floating wire antenna was continually being chopped off by our junior officer of the deck. If they forgot the antenna was deployed and came to the surface real quick thousands of dollars of wire would be lost, and that mode of comms would be lost. Great video! AD2Z
You drive by the Michigan station to get to my family cottage. My grandparents said the only reason the cottage has power and paved roads most of the way was because of the ELF transmitter. My uncle also told us about the time he rode his dirt bike up to the fence and he was greeted by the guys with M16's you talked about.
My family had a cottage in the Clam Lake area since the early 50's. The County Highway system was blacktoped, but the roads were narrow and barely maintained. When you approached the ELF site, all of sudden the blacktop became very wide and well maintained. The locals use to joke about how easy it was for an adversity to locate. After the Elk herd was established we'd go in the early evening and park on one of the antenna paths to watch for Elk. The PEACE protesters had spray painted the ELF roads with PEACE symbols and other graffiti. Never once were we ever approached by armed guards.
Michael. Nice video. I used to work at Project ELF in 95-97. I did security. We were not armed. We wore the same uniform as Ashland County Sheriff deputies. But I had the radio. I would call the control room and they would make the call to the county Sheriff and every agency in the area responded. Local, county and USDA. Many squad cars were wrecked, do to hitting deer at high speeds. From what I had heard. The reason the trespass fine in Wisconsin was so high, was because of Project ELF. It was to deter trespassing. The arresting deputies were nice to the protesters. They usually didn’t take them in. But he told you can pay it or not. But someday you’ll be a soccer mom or dad, involved in a little accident, then you’ll go to jail. I had a piece of the antenna cable. It was about 1.25 in diameter. I just went looking for it. It’s somewhere in that mess in the garage.
What an absolutely marvelous video about very captivating subject. The technology of developing and testing transmitting and receiving electromagnetic signals AT OR AROUND 50 Hz is mind boggling - especially to we hams who view our "Top Band" of 160 meters (1.9-2.0 MHz) as low frequency. We also have been granted the use of two bands I the 100-500 KHz range where antennas and components approach astronomical proportions to us. Per the video and not to trivialize the subject, the two antennas - in Wisconsin and Michigan - are merely "tuning stubs" for the entire earth! Wow and double wow! Thank you again for the terrific presentation! 72/73 de k6whp dit dit
I remember this project Michael. I rode nukes in the Atlantic and Mediterranean and a diesel boat in the Pacific. As an aside I could copy VLF signals at a keel depth of 200 feet with our VLF loop “bumped” maybe 12” above the sail (which a non-submariner might call the conning tower)…
That's awesome. Thanks for the info. I wonder if state-of-the-art of receivers progressed to the point that VLF signals could be received at greater depths, making ELF redundant.
I remember reading about ELF in Popular Mechanics back in the 70s. That was during the pause between the beginning of the project and its resumption in the 80s. I worked with former submariners who said they knew of its use and that it did take forever for a short message to come through.
In my navy days in Australia I worked as a tech at the Belconnen Naval Transmitter Station in Canberra there was had the '44' which was a 250Kw 44Khz transmitter, from memory the antenna was an 'inverted L' type with a huge capacitive top hat, the antenna was supported by 3 600ft towers. This was in the 1980's. The other VLF station is at NWC (North West Cape, in Western Australia). The final 'TANK Circuit' was housed in it's own building, and fluorescent lights did not need to be connected to power. 73 from ex VK1DRL.
@John Cliff We used to take a capacitor shorting rod and go to the tower base guy wire insulator and with the shorting rod draw a 6 foot arc. They soon got the idea you don't touch ANYTHING in or near the station. Plus the plaque on the entrance listing the 8 people who had died at the transmitter station over the years. But for me it was one of the best jobs (post) ever.
@@kizzjd9578 I was in the RAN, but we were very much a 'part' of the NATO system with the US Navy we worked very closely (even though we are not in NATO)..
My late father was a Chief Radio Supervisor (Special) in the UK Royal Navy. One of his regular jobs was testing the VLF transmitter at Rugby (GBR). on 16kHz.
Interesting. I understand that they had/have one in Scotland too. I recall much uproar when they filed a planning application for a station at Port Apin in Argyll. So much for top secret!😂
@@robinwells8879 The 60kHz time signal moved to Anthorn Radio Station in Cumbria. Two vlf stations I believe are at Inskip and Skelton. Skelton operates on 22.1 kHz (callsign GVT).
I grew up in Clam Lake while Project ELF was here. There is a book called "Midwestern Strange" that features a chapter on it amidst the controversy and the locals reactions to it. Most of us liked it being here as it brought business and provided good jobs. Trust me - there were no M-16's being pointed at anyone. There were guards and you weren't allowed to just walk in but, it was pretty low key. I saw it from the days when it was being built as Project Sanguine to it's conclusion and dismantling.
When this video first aired, I had a conversation with a person that was a security guard at the facility in the mid '90s. You can search for the comment, but briefly; they were mostly unarmed, and had Ashland county sheriff on speed dial. Reinforcements came pretty quickly when it was needed.
Way back in the "duck and cover" days I think it was Life Magazine or maybe the Saturday Evening Post that had an article calculating the best first strike location in the U.S. It was about 10 miles west of the Chicago Loop. Back then the rail transportation system was considered highly important and that was the number one crossroads. The article said there was no point dropping it directly over, say, the Loop because that is next to Lake Michigan so half the blast would have been over the water. So, they went ten miles in and even designated the intersection of Lake Street and Harlem Avenue in Oak Park, Illinois. I grew up there and was living there at the time, about six blocks southeast of that location. Even as a kid, I could figure out that "duck and cover" just wasn't going to work.
Back then I lived a hop, skip, and jump from Oak Ridge. This during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We had to walk home from school during Atomic air raid drills because EMP would have fried Bus ignitions - or would it?
A neighbour who was an engineer on a RN sub during the Cold War told me he could listen to the cricket on BBC radio longwave (200 kHz) while on the seabed in the North Sea! The VLF systems are very much alive these days on many continents.
Interesting! I worked on the Airborne command post equipment for a while. We had a VLF 5 mile antenna and reel on the belly of the planes. Some times during testing, the wire would get jammed with it extended way out and the hydraulic cutter as well as the manual cutter would not work. So they would go out and land in the dessert dragging this long wire. The system used FSK to code messages. In the shop we had a big copper screen faraday cage to work on stuff.
Great video! Growing up here in northern WI, every once in a while protests at the ELF site would make the local news. The Cold War definitely was a fascinating time.
I remember those protests. Back then they were more abstract as I didn't realize what the base totally was about. Growing up in the '70s and '80s and coming of age during the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union; Cold War history fascinates me. Hopefully more videos will be on the way.
Would think most ppl wouldn't mind the safety factor in mind having ELF in operation.. surprisingly there are still groups of ppl protesting against keeping people safe from danger/ terrorists..although at the age of 35 and witnessing what today's youth is being indoctrinated into, communism will always be an issue for the young and old.
@@KB9VBRAntennasyup currently the UP is protesting new plans to set up stations! Do you think they’d still be much of use today? I would imagine they’ve become pretty obsolete compared to most other more efficient technologies?
I toured the Navy's one million watt low frequency transmitter at Jim Creek in Washington state around 1972. It was said to be for communicating to submarines.
I worked at Pine gap tracking station in central Australia They also use ultra low frequencies towers for coms as well as satellite dishes ray domes. Certainly used massive amount of power to run. ⚡⚡⚡🗼🗼📡📡📡📡📡
A guy I worked with in the Navy had a previous assignment, flying long sorties in a C-130. They flew to a designated area, then deployed a trailing 3 mile long wire antenna. The signals they then transmitted to submarines had been pre-recorded on a Crown industrial reel to reel tape deck.
When I copied TACAMO VLF on a boomer out of SUBRON16 in the early 1970's it was being sent by an RM on a handkey in the C-130 and he had a lousy fist. But then banked like he was pulling 1 G made it difficult...
In the 80's I worked at a company that built the signal generator. Whenever I visited Manistque paper I was told not to talk about ELF as it was unpopular to residents in that area.
Whow... Its amazingly interesting to hear someone refer to the old K. I. Sawyer AFB. I was stationed at Wurtsmith AFB, MI before it closed in '93 and I loved the time I spent there. In the winter months, we would refer to K.I. as "K.I. Siberia". Mike... I know this/your channel is about ham radio, but you just took me way back. Thanks.
Growing up in the '70s and '80s and coming of age during the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union; Cold War history fascinates me. Hopefully more videos will be on the way. I'd love to do something on K I Sawyer- I didn't realize B-52s were stationed there.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I grew up right next to the base. Remember those big B-52s rumbling the house when they flew over. There was also Tankers and F-106s. I still live close and we still see a few KC 135s flying around when they come up here for training missions. Great video.
Back when it was operational, geophysicists used the induced signal to trace conductors for base metal prospecting. When it was shutdown, they had to come up with other methods of signal generation.
Great video. Thanks for the update. I remember reading about E.L.F. wave program when I was in high school (This was around 1968 or 1969, and I am not sure where I read it.) I asked one of the officers in our Junior Naval ROTC program about the E.L.F. wave program. He got very upset and angry at me. He told me there was no such thing as E.L.F. waves. I always thought his reaction to my question was out of proportion to the subject matter. I must have hit a nerve with him. I don't know what his problem was, I just remember his reaction.
@@bobabraham5060 ..Yes. I was reading Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, and Popular Electronics magazine religiously back then. I miss all that great content. I learned a lot from those magazines.
Excellent! So much to be learned here as a radio person. Thanks for entertaining the idea and taking the time to elaborate on past present and future of the area. I would like to do a similar cold war relic video of an area here in Northern Illinois. We are home to the training area of over the horizon radar and troposcatter for the DEW line. There was a site in Pecatonica, IL and in Seward, IL that a pair of, I believe, 6 meter dishes with a couple thousand watts of power used to communicate back and forth. These areas were training areas for the guys that went up to man the DEW line systems in northern Canada and Alaska. If I can find the info site again I'll attach it to my comment below for others to read if they want. Thanks for the mention about the idea for the video! I appreciate your efforts!
That would be fun, I find the DEW line really interesting. We have a SAGE RADAR site about 30 miles away from Wausau. I'd like to do a video on that, but unfortunately the area is a legitimate hazmat site and closed to the public.
Thank you for taking the time to properly subtitle your video's. A self-described 'radio-nut' family member has sadly gotten hard of hearing, and this helps him out tremendously enjoying his hobby!
I used to live near an old Nike site in the northern suburbs of Boston. These old Cold War sites are interesting and a good reminder of how crazy the world was that we took it all in stride, that at any moment: BOOM. The world is still a crazy place, just a bit different. Thanks for the video and all the work put into it.
I was close to the Project Manager for Seafarer and Elf. Got up to see it in the eighties, and we inspected it via small aircraft by flying over it. There were still bait buckets around, saved souvenirs from the environmentalists who bought worms, dumped 'em on the ground, and told news crews it was driving the worms out of the earth. Was quite a thing.
@@consilienc3 He's departed, sadly. I did go visit the ELF system with him once. Thought it was in Clam Lake or Haywood, in that area. Was a pretty cool. We went to some fish museum and walked up a four-story muskie where you could stand in an observation area in it's mouth. Different.
Great video...this ties together all the bits, parts and pieces that we've heard about for decades but weren't able to put together to make a complete story....but now you have! The study that the USN undertook to to identify the resonant frequency of the Earth's crust was very close to that realized by Nikola Tesla, although he never made his calculations or methods public. So many fascinating elements to the story of ELF!
J: No, not really. 1. Soil is a very poor conductor of RF. Copper is over 1,000 times more conductive. Lesson: Throw down a radial or two. 2. RF doesn't conduct very deep in soil. Not much conductance below 5-10 feet. Well casings really don't offer an advantage over a typical ground rod. 73, bill
Being a submarine boomer type. Just because there were these sites like this, does not mean we were on the edge of destruction. it was always about maintaining communications with deployed assets. Maintaining numerous methods in the ability to deliver communications was a good thing, ELF VLF, UHF, EHF, SATCOM were all about maintaining the ability to communicate at any given time or requirement.
Exactly, the more ways to communicate the LESS chance of that old favorite of the anti-military left… an accidental launch triggering a full on nuclear response!
@@KB9VBRAntennas The frequency is 24khz.its NAA from Cutler Maine.You can pick it up with a sdr,sounds like fsk.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler
I did some deer hunting near the Clam Lake facility back in the 90s. Wasnt much to see, just some not very tall poles with two thick wires...cables?...mounted to them. I say "cables" due to the large diameter, much bigger than typical rural electric. Beautiful area, we saw a few deer but even back then the area was mostly torn up from rutting elk. EDIT: The 12:47 mark is incorrect, that cable is nowhere near the diameter that used to hang from the poles, which I would say were no more than 18 or 20' off the ground. Think of a cable being the diameter of say 1.5 or 2".
Nice one Michael! I’ve been racking my brains on how the subs transmit back an acknowledgment now? Raising something to the surface or transmitting through the long antenna towed behind has its risks. Any ideas? Cheers
I live in Brunswick Maine and on the property behind me is a 65 acre field. It was formerly owned by the Navy. To my understanding it was a ELF site. The ground there is a mass of copper wire. In some of the places where the towers were nothing has ever grown back. I moved in my house in 1983 and the site was inactive but the main building was I place. I was constructed like a fortress. It was raised about 1990. The copper wire stuck up from the ground for several years till it was harvested and sold.
Very interesting presentation. Earth conductivity, fascinating stuff. Kinda like tapping two stones together underwater. Person on the other side of the lake underwater hears the tapping at near same volume/intensity. Thank you for the video. 73 W8DYE
Very Interesting, I served on an Attack Submarine in the early 70s. I was an Electronics Tech but a Nuke. Reactor Operator/maintained instrumentation and controls for the Reactor. Ken, N4FLG.
I served on the USS Sam Rayburn SSBN 635 and the USS Haddo SSN604, both nuclear powered subs. The Rayburn trailed a very long VLF floating wire antenna, but the Haddo received with a mast mounted VLF antenna. The VLF transmission site was Cutler, Maine. (DE K8QLW)
Grew up in Hayward and when my sister was learning how to drive on the backroads around Clam Lake/Moose Lake area we stumbled upon the gate here in 2009-10 area. Neat, secret stuff and I've been obsessed with it ever since!
In `1978 while finishing COLLEGE at UW Superior I finished my Naval Reserve duty. I Was a Radioman who supported P3 Orions tracking Russian Subs and did work a few times a year to test the ELF. It did not ORDER a launch but any disruption to the signal was an order to US SUBS to follow wartime footing and go to a preplanned position to receive a message from a brown wire PLANE. (that is all I can say) You can assume all clear message were receive by our SUB as there was never a war. The US SUBS received sealed positions and were in the CO XO Safe and placed new each time a US SUB went ON STATION
Thank You for the video. During the late sixties o mid 70' s I served in the submarine reserve unit and sailed in the North Atlantic this was very informative, l enjoy all your videos!
I spent 2 months in that area in the summer of 1974. I was a graduate student on geophysics and we worked on measuring the electrical properties of the near surface and upper crust (the upper 10 miles or so). Don't remember what the results or conclusions were, but I remember the beauty of the Wisconsin woods in the summer. Haven't been back there since then in the summer, it's on my list of things to do.
At my university in the 1980s, I worked in a lab that studied the effect of low-frequency RF on simple leaf mold. I helped build power supplies and data collection.
There's an elf station in Washington State. Jim Creek Naval Airstation. When you're driving north on I-5 leaving Everett, you can see the towers that hold up the antenna as they are higher than 200 feet above the ground and need the red strobes on the towers.
Great video! Fascinating stuff. I used to drive through there all the time when I was in college going between the Twin Cities and Houghton. I knew about the site but never took the time to check it out when going through. Next time I go through I'll have to look more carefully.
Project Seafarer or something similar may be what I was told existed in a band between the southern boundary of the U.S. Amry Pohakuloa Training Area (PTA) and Mauna Loa volcano. In the late 1980s I was a civilian environmental specialist with the Army Corps of Engineers in Honolulu, HI, and was preparing an environmental impact statement for new training range faclilty near the south central part of PTA. This included botanicial, bat, and archaelogical idnetification studies, some of which might have resulted in our contractors coming across the Navy antenna fields. I never saw any antennas but was just told about them.
Very interesting topic. I'm old enough to remember the concerns over ELF & always wondered how the project progressed & if it was worth all the trouble.
Great video. We have the Cutler VLF station still up communicating with subs today at 24khz. I would bet that the ELF buildings have very extensive underground grounding systems you do not see (exceeding Moto r56 standards, etc..)
Cutler was the station where we copied the submarine broadcast when on patrol in the North Atlantic back during the Cold War - always reliable with a very strong signal…
Cutler is very interesting. I have driven by it. Some of the antenna masts are almost 1000 feet tall and the array can be seen from Canada on a clear day.
When living on K.I. Sawyer back in the late 80's my Dad told me local farmers were not happy with project E.L.F. Claims of disturbing livestock and cattle. Low character transmission rates were also rumored about this technology. Thank you for this video, the research and travelling to the Wisconsin site.
I remember back in the '80s that there was much concern over EMI and electrical ground loops from high voltage power lines disrupting dairy cattle production. Some of the concern was warranted and power companies improved their transmission systems. But I think ELF got caught up in that controversy; there isn't much for farming in northwestern Wisconsin (and that part of the UP for that matter).
@@KB9VBRAntennas you are correct. I don't miss the Winters. Although the UP was prettier then than it is now with all the logging going on around the base. The homes have fallen into disrepair. Being a lifelong military brat and serving myself, seeing the area deteriorated is just sad. I'm sure Wurtsmith, Blytheville and other SAC bases suffered the same fate.
In researching for this video I was reading about K I Sawyer. Its closure in the early '90s impacted over 30% of the workforce. I'm sure Marquette would have been decimated if it wasn't for the university. We were up there back in May, Gwinn is a shell of its former self, but Marquette is a vibrant community.
Fascinating stuff thank you! Can you do a feature on the old AN-FLR9 HF - aka "Elephant Cage" antennas which were dotted around the world? We had one in the UK at RAF Chicksands. Looking on Google satellite view the groundworks are still very apparent from the aerial view even though the antennas themselves were removed long ago? 👍
Fascinating, thanks for the video! I would guess that the braided wire dangling behind the building is part of a lightning rod system and not a part of the old transmission wire system. We have a similar abandoned project here in Northern Virginia, a couple miles south of Alexandria in the Washington, DC suburbs. Not sure of the dates or technology, but it’s a huge, circular network of wires that are in the water and muck of a large marsh. It’s now called Huntley Meadows Park and is a great place for bird watching. There are raised boardwalks leading around park and some of the wires are still visible. Don’t know much off the top of my head, but believe it acted as a giant radar dish that was used to communicate with P-3 Orion “Sub Searcher” planes around the globe.
Great mini documentary...... Like you, I think it is so cool to actually visit these historical sites to get a feel for the area...... I’m from Michigan and wasn’t aware of this operation..... Thanks for sharing..
Living in Wisconsin, I remember all the news stories about the protests. It was good to be able to do this video and get a bit of closure on the program.
My family had a cabin slightly north of Clam Lake on Sider lake (now owned by my uncle) 70’s - to early 90’s, we were totally unaware of this. Very interesting though! ⚡️
Hi Michael that was a wonderful video I’m going to history lesson I never knew about. It’s really amazing that it is your backyard. Thank you for taking your time and the others to help to you to produce this video I really enjoyed it. WD5ENH Steve
We had a great time exploring the forest and the ELF site. If you saw my 'Black Lake POTA adventure," (last week's video), you will see the other side of our weekend hijinks.
Jim Creek is a Navy VLF station in WA that is still in use I believe. Wires are strung across the valley. They have a military recreation area and we were able to cabin camp there a few years ago in a lovely deep forest environment. While I understood the nature of the place and some irony that they allowed people to recreate so close to a vital communication network, a few years later when Putin wanted to put on a threatening posture a supposed list of likely first targets was put out, and there was Jim Creek, it was humbling.
I live in the south of France & am a diver in the Mediterranean. About 15 years ago whilst undertaking a dive at St Jean Cap Ferrat in the bay of Villafranche sur mer, 8 miles east of Nice. We were told my some military personal not to go beyond a certain point as it was restricted & if we did we would be arrested & equipment confiscated. Some time later I chanced upon a very small printed press article, I forget were, The piece mentioned that underwater communications were being experimented with. Maybe this has something to do with ELF. I am aware that various subsonic sounds are transmitted through water some 5 times faster than through air, probably marine mammals communicate this way, very interesting subject, thanks
Back in the 70s, an engineer friend of mine, described how, during WWII, when amateur radio was shut down, hams experimented with ground communications. For transmitting, two rods were driven into the ground, some distance apart. The output of an audio amplifier was connected to them, with a mike for the input. The receiver was the opposite, the rods connected to the amp's input. Apparently, effective voice communication was achieved, but I don't know what the range was. This scheme would be useful today, for communicating secretly--at least until those who snoop figured out what you were doing.
Great video. The only thing I take argument with is the statement that we are not at risk for nuclear war. Sadly, we are just as much at risk of nuclear war as we ever were and that was before Ukraine. Now with the war between Russia and Ukraine and with China making noise over Taiwan, we are actually closer to nuclear war than ever. It is time the population of the US woke up to that fact.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I worked at the Clam Lake site. There were NO M-16s. It was run by civilian contractors...no Navy personnel on site. The antenna cables were considerably larger in diameter than that ground wire shown. The Laurentian Shield's low conductivity did indeed make the antenna a bit more "efficient" by forcing the signals to go deeper into the Earth. As the current flowed deeper, at some point the current would be able to flow from one grounded end of an antenna, through the Earth and then back to the opposite grounded end of that antenna, essentially forming a loop antenna. Also, contrary to popular belief, was that ELF could order the subs to launch nuclear weapons. It could not. It basically sent the same 3 digit code 24/7 and for lack of a better term, indicated "all clear". You could physically hear the MSK and after a short time, we learned the rhythm of it's sound, droning on day after day. Just prior to the first shots of the first Gulf War, I was working and the sound changed dramatically and the 3 digit code was different. I knew something was up, just not what it was. All ELF was intended for was to cause the sub to go up to receive orders from systems that was much faster than the 4-8 BAUD rate of the ELF MSK signal.
Since we are AGAIN on the verge of WWIII THERMO NUCLEAR WAR. Do you think the U.S. government will reopen rebuild that facility there?
Most interesting add to a most interesting gnome tome.
Very interesting. In fact, such a so slow short message of 3 bytes could in fact send a great variety of alert ground status message. And I think it was really the case...
Indeed we perceive the good and powerful American (and also British) ears since iiww. As an old German captain said to an American admiral on board of the nuclear submarine SSNR Seaview "you have developed wonderful machines... ... I wonder where they will lead you..." more or Iess like this...
Brasil
Sounds like we got the war time propaganda version in this video.
A baud rate of 4 to 8 means there is no way it took 15 minutes to send a 3 character code! BAUDOT uses a 5 bit per character format. At 4 baud, 3 characters could be sent in 4 seconds for example.
In the mid 80's I was a Second Mate (Navigator) on a small research ship researching submarine communications in the Med. and North Atl. I wasn't a researcher, I just navigated the ship's speed and direction as per orders from the researchers below decks. We would move at about 2 to 5 knots for a while then change directions. We did, however attract Soviet spy ships that trailed us at a distance of about 8 to 10 miles. The researchers said that they are too far away to learn anything. And, we attracted whales. Giant whales would come up and swim along side our ship as we drifted along. One really big one stayed with us for a day, roll to one side once and a while and he would look up at us. I still remember staring into that big whale eye looking up at me.
@John Cliff ME TOO, 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣!!!!!
Related....in the late 1980's, I worked for a defense contractor who had a contract with the Navy for a communications buoy on the Poseidon and Trident submarines. This was not ELF but for several other frequencies. The subs could deploy the buoy from depth....it was leashed to the boat by a heavy steel cable, and electrical/signal cabling bound to the cable. Behind the sail, there was a large hydraulically -operated reel which stored and deployed the cable. The reel and the communications buoy were housed in a fiberglass "pod" with two opening door panels. The doors were opened, the cable payed out and thr buoyant buoy would rise to the surface. The radio communications would occur and then the bouy would be wound back down. Our shop within the company produced the buoy itself. It was about the size and shape of a two person Zodiak skiff...but with an integral top deck. There were numerous antennae and stuff inside. There were two flotation tanks....about 12" diameter and maybe 8' long that provided the main flotation. They were manufacturered elsewhere to high tolerances. They were filled with air and had an explosive cap. If the cable ever severed, thr caps would blow, seawatt would infiltate the tanks and sink the buoy to prevent it from getting into enemy possession. Pretty cool stuff. Messy, fairly toxic work.
Very interesting. I was on board the a sub that received some of the first test ELF transmissions. We did it on our return trip from the Med in late 1972. Engineers brought their special equipment on board and we "stopped" at predetermined spots in the north Atlantic to test reception. The engineers were very pleased with the results, so pleased, that we cut the experiment short and headed home to New London early. The boat was SSN 606, USS Tinosa.
There’s a plan in the works to try to set up ELF systems around Lake Superior. My grandpa was a biology professor who not only really cared and fought for the upper peninsulas Pristine nature to stay in tact and non adulterated, but wrote and published his own textbook that’s still taught, created and invested in the biology dpt, who I’ve met many students of his who tel me that he inspired their care and love for biology, which still has students in memory of him today attending.
One of their recent projects is protesting the Project Elf that the government claims will help keep us safe in a nuclear attack, but many are arguing that it won’t serve much use, and serves more of a risk to nature and wildlife.
I see a lot of knowledgeable, well informed, first hand experienced people in the comments here and was wondering if anybody could help give me insight to as if this is still a meaningful/useful technology, and maybe insight as to any known effects the infastructure/frequencies/stations may have on the surrounding areas! I’d love to hear any feedback or ideas! Thanks in advance!
Mike: An excellent video about the Sanguine system. Back in the in the late 60ies & early seventies, I was the system operator /technician on several Canadian registered A/C . DHC-3's known as a "single Otter" because it had one radial engine, several PBY-5A (Catalina) , Norman-Britain Islander, , DHC-2 "Beaver" & possibly others, flying airborne geophysical survey in Wisconsin & the upper peninsula of Michigan. We were contracted by a suite of US mining & exploration companies. I was unaware of Project Sanguine, & on a fine Sept. morning we took off to fly an area about 100 miles long by 70 miles wide, with lines separated by 1/4 mile. . On the 2nd or 3rd line we crossed a gap in forest & the equipment went crazy. !
We flew on heading about 1/2 a mile, possibly a little less & normal ops returned. I ran confidence tests on the equipment & all was well . We were flying a Catalina flying boat which has a 104 foot wingspan & we had a loop that ran from the nose of the A/C to one wingtip, & from that wingtip to the top of the vertical fin on the tail, to the other wingtip, & from there to the nose. That huge loop was our "antenna". We had a transmitter that supplied pulses of 330 Hz energy to the loop antenna, & in between Tx pulses our receiver "listened" for a return from the ground. Depending on what ores we were looking for we chose frequencies between 30 & 915 Hz, carefully avoiding power line frequency, or multiples of same. On our return flight a 1/4 mile west of our original line I watched carefully the equipment went crazy again & looking out the window, We appeared to be flying over a power line. Our receiver had filters for 60hz, so I couldn't figure out why the "power line " was interfering with our gear. I called the pilot & told him to break the line & turn back to the power line & turn to fly up or down the line. We were flying at 200ft AGL, & He had to climb to about 500 ft before I could measure the frequency. The frequency appeared to be 75 Hz. I had the pilot fly us back to the airport ( it was south & west a few miles from K.I.Sawyer AFB. I made several phone calls enquiring about any non 60 Hz powerline frequencies. I was assured that there were no power lines anywhere in the state that weren't 60 Hz. I made a call to one of my RCAF buddies & after I answered several questions he gave me the dope on "Sanguine". I went into town to a Radio Shack & purchased several op amps & I built a filter board to put in the receiver. I put a 4 stage notch filter in the receiver centered on 75 Hz, It really made a difference, but I tuned above and below 75 Hz., & discovered that 76 Hz worked best. We took off in the A/C & flew directly to the Sanguine antenna, & I had ridded the signal of almost all the interference....at least 95%. The client never complained about a "dirty " signal, so all was well. I noticed that a few responders were on the DEW line. I spent a few years at Komakuk Beach, Cambridge Bay, & Hall Beach, also known as Fox 58. Great video mike.
Cheers! Brian, VE6XX/VE7CRA ex VE8DX. I will be 83 in July, & it is great to see how many of us old guys are still around
That's a great story, thanks for sharing it.
I'm 76 and a former US Navy Radioman 2nd class. I was stationed at the NAVCOMSTA base in Iceland in 1966 /67 where I remember participating in this program which was especially interesting because my initials are ELF ! My involvement was while working at a receiver complex and antenna farm known as Garrity. I was only told the name of the program and what my assignment was, to pick up a signal in Iceland relayed from a submerged submarine, to a helicopter and then to eventually to me after which it would be relayed to Thurso Scotland. I successfully picked up the signal, so did Thurso and I don't know anything else.
This was AWESOME! Huge Cold War history buff. Mix it with radio and I'm all in!
As a ham I became aware of ELF in the mid 60's. I remember a project where a few of us modified an audio music amplifier to act as a 16KC receiver with a tuned front end circuit and rectifier and then a mixer stage in the output fed to a detector and headphones.. Low frequency noise was a problem but we detected a deep hum by using the electric fence around an 80 acre field as the antenna, which we believed was the ELF transmission. It would have been easier to prove if it was if they had down time (ran 24/7) so we could be sure that is what the hum we heard, was. k8do
How kool
I was a young lad, but well into electronics. I remember reading about this somewhere and building a receiver. Not having a 'natural' antenna like a fence I started to bury a wire around the property line on out subdivision-sized lot. Dad came out and asked what I was doing, he was retired COMSEC with the AF and he already knew something about it. IIRC part of the rcvr was from a 100-in-1 Radio Shack Electronics kit and a transistor radio provided another part. Too many years and miles to remember more...73!
This was an great video! Really filled in the background from my submarine days as a radioman. The floating wire antenna was continually being chopped off by our junior officer of the deck. If they forgot the antenna was deployed and came to the surface real quick thousands of dollars of wire would be lost, and that mode of comms would be lost. Great video! AD2Z
I heard from other commenters that was a common problem.
I was an MM and wound up repairing/replacing them...
Many times!
You drive by the Michigan station to get to my family cottage. My grandparents said the only reason the cottage has power and paved roads most of the way was because of the ELF transmitter. My uncle also told us about the time he rode his dirt bike up to the fence and he was greeted by the guys with M16's you talked about.
My family had a cottage in the Clam Lake area since the early 50's. The County Highway system was blacktoped, but the roads were narrow and barely maintained. When you approached the ELF site, all of sudden the blacktop became very wide and well maintained. The locals use to joke about how easy it was for an adversity to locate. After the Elk herd was established we'd go in the early evening and park on one of the antenna paths to watch for Elk. The PEACE protesters had spray painted the ELF roads with PEACE symbols and other graffiti. Never once were we ever approached by armed guards.
Michael. Nice video. I used to work at Project ELF in 95-97. I did security. We were not armed. We wore the same uniform as Ashland County Sheriff deputies. But I had the radio. I would call the control room and they would make the call to the county Sheriff and every agency in the area responded. Local, county and USDA. Many squad cars were wrecked, do to hitting deer at high speeds. From what I had heard. The reason the trespass fine in Wisconsin was so high, was because of Project ELF. It was to deter trespassing. The arresting deputies were nice to the protesters. They usually didn’t take them in. But he told you can pay it or not. But someday you’ll be a soccer mom or dad, involved in a little accident, then you’ll go to jail.
I had a piece of the antenna cable. It was about 1.25 in diameter. I just went looking for it. It’s somewhere in that mess in the garage.
That's an awesome story. Thanks for the background information.
I worked there as a technican 1993 - 2004 when they shut the site down. Forest is right no armed guards.
What an absolutely marvelous video about very captivating subject. The technology of developing and testing transmitting and receiving electromagnetic signals AT OR AROUND 50 Hz is mind boggling - especially to we hams who view our "Top Band" of 160 meters (1.9-2.0 MHz) as low frequency. We also have been granted the use of two bands I the 100-500 KHz range where antennas and components approach astronomical proportions to us.
Per the video and not to trivialize the subject, the two antennas - in Wisconsin and Michigan - are merely "tuning stubs" for the entire earth!
Wow and double wow!
Thank you again for the terrific presentation!
72/73 de k6whp
dit dit
I remember this project Michael. I rode nukes in the Atlantic and Mediterranean and a diesel boat in the Pacific. As an aside I could copy VLF signals at a keel depth of 200 feet with our VLF loop “bumped” maybe 12” above the sail (which a non-submariner might call the conning tower)…
That's awesome. Thanks for the info. I wonder if state-of-the-art of receivers progressed to the point that VLF signals could be received at greater depths, making ELF redundant.
It’s called the fin in the British Navy.
RAN also called a sail the fin. I have received the 22kHz from NWC at 180 feet from our ALM aerial (your bump) in the middle of the Tasman Sea.
I remember reading about ELF in Popular Mechanics back in the 70s. That was during the pause between the beginning of the project and its resumption in the 80s. I worked with former submariners who said they knew of its use and that it did take forever for a short message to come through.
In my navy days in Australia I worked as a tech at the Belconnen Naval Transmitter Station in Canberra there was had the '44' which was a 250Kw 44Khz transmitter, from memory the antenna was an 'inverted L' type with a huge capacitive top hat, the antenna was supported by 3 600ft towers. This was in the 1980's. The other VLF station is at NWC (North West Cape, in Western Australia).
The final 'TANK Circuit' was housed in it's own building, and fluorescent lights did not need to be connected to power. 73 from ex VK1DRL.
@John Cliff We used to take a capacitor shorting rod and go to the tower base guy wire insulator and with the shorting rod draw a 6 foot arc. They soon got the idea you don't touch ANYTHING in or near the station. Plus the plaque on the entrance listing the 8 people who had died at the transmitter station over the years.
But for me it was one of the best jobs (post) ever.
Was that RAN or UsNavy?
@@kizzjd9578 I was in the RAN, but we were very much a 'part' of the NATO system with the US Navy we worked very closely (even though we are not in NATO)..
My late father was a Chief Radio Supervisor (Special) in the UK Royal Navy. One of his regular jobs was testing the VLF transmitter at Rugby (GBR). on 16kHz.
Interesting. I understand that they had/have one in Scotland too. I recall much uproar when they filed a planning application for a station at Port Apin in Argyll. So much for top secret!😂
@@robinwells8879 The 60kHz time signal moved to Anthorn Radio Station in Cumbria. Two vlf stations I believe are at Inskip and Skelton. Skelton operates on 22.1 kHz (callsign GVT).
I grew up in Clam Lake while Project ELF was here. There is a book called "Midwestern Strange" that features a chapter on it amidst the controversy and the locals reactions to it. Most of us liked it being here as it brought business and provided good jobs. Trust me - there were no M-16's being pointed at anyone. There were guards and you weren't allowed to just walk in but, it was pretty low key. I saw it from the days when it was being built as Project Sanguine to it's conclusion and dismantling.
When this video first aired, I had a conversation with a person that was a security guard at the facility in the mid '90s. You can search for the comment, but briefly; they were mostly unarmed, and had Ashland county sheriff on speed dial. Reinforcements came pretty quickly when it was needed.
Way back in the "duck and cover" days I think it was Life Magazine or maybe the Saturday Evening Post that had an article calculating the best first strike location in the U.S. It was about 10 miles west of the Chicago Loop. Back then the rail transportation system was considered highly important and that was the number one crossroads. The article said there was no point dropping it directly over, say, the Loop because that is next to Lake Michigan so half the blast would have been over the water. So, they went ten miles in and even designated the intersection of Lake Street and Harlem Avenue in Oak Park, Illinois. I grew up there and was living there at the time, about six blocks southeast of that location. Even as a kid, I could figure out that "duck and cover" just wasn't going to work.
I grew up 5 miles from the Ford Rouge plant!! You want to talk "primary target"?? Those stupid "duck and cover" ads would make me laugh!!!
Back then I lived a hop, skip, and jump from Oak Ridge. This during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We had to walk home from school during Atomic air raid drills because EMP would have fried Bus ignitions - or would it?
It was more like "Bend over and kiss it goodbye!".
A neighbour who was an engineer on a RN sub during the Cold War told me he could listen to the cricket on BBC radio longwave (200 kHz) while on the seabed in the North Sea! The VLF systems are very much alive these days on many continents.
Interesting! I worked on the Airborne command post equipment for a while. We had a VLF 5 mile antenna and reel on the belly of the planes. Some times during testing, the wire would get jammed with it extended way out and the hydraulic cutter as well as the manual cutter would not work. So they would go out and land in the dessert dragging this long wire. The system used FSK to code messages. In the shop we had a big copper screen faraday cage to work on stuff.
Why didn’t the cutters work?
I was fortunate to have toured the ELF Facility in Upper Michigan while it was still an active military installation.
Great video! Growing up here in northern WI, every once in a while protests at the ELF site would make the local news.
The Cold War definitely was a fascinating time.
I remember those protests. Back then they were more abstract as I didn't realize what the base totally was about. Growing up in the '70s and '80s and coming of age during the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union; Cold War history fascinates me. Hopefully more videos will be on the way.
Would think most ppl wouldn't mind the safety factor in mind having ELF in operation.. surprisingly there are still groups of ppl protesting against keeping people safe from danger/ terrorists..although at the age of 35 and witnessing what today's youth is being indoctrinated into, communism will always be an issue for the young and old.
YEAH duck and cover was a REAL HOOT in the 50s!
@@lifeindetale I hate communists and communism....
@@KB9VBRAntennasyup currently the UP is protesting new plans to set up stations! Do you think they’d still be much of use today? I would imagine they’ve become pretty obsolete compared to most other more efficient technologies?
I toured the Navy's one million watt low frequency transmitter at Jim Creek in Washington state around 1972. It was said to be for communicating to submarines.
Yes it is. Jim Creek is a VLF or Very Low Frequency transmitter site.
I worked at Pine gap tracking station in central Australia
They also use ultra low frequencies towers for coms as well as satellite dishes ray domes.
Certainly used massive amount of power to run. ⚡⚡⚡🗼🗼📡📡📡📡📡
A guy I worked with in the Navy had a previous assignment, flying long sorties in a C-130. They flew to a designated area, then deployed a trailing 3 mile long wire antenna. The signals they then transmitted to submarines had been pre-recorded on a Crown industrial reel to reel tape deck.
Do you know if he was in VQ-3 or VQ-4?
TACAMO
My uncle was a flight engineer on C130's during this project. Take charge and move out. TACAMO.
When I copied TACAMO VLF on a boomer out of SUBRON16 in the early 1970's it was being sent by an RM on a handkey in the C-130 and he had a lousy fist. But then banked like he was pulling 1 G made it difficult...
In the 80's I worked at a company that built the signal generator. Whenever I visited Manistque paper I was told not to talk about ELF as it was unpopular to residents in that area.
Whow... Its amazingly interesting to hear someone refer to the old K. I. Sawyer AFB. I was stationed at Wurtsmith AFB, MI before it closed in '93 and I loved the time I spent there. In the winter months, we would refer to K.I. as "K.I. Siberia". Mike... I know this/your channel is about ham radio, but you just took me way back. Thanks.
Growing up in the '70s and '80s and coming of age during the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union; Cold War history fascinates me. Hopefully more videos will be on the way. I'd love to do something on K I Sawyer- I didn't realize B-52s were stationed there.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I grew up right next to the base. Remember those big B-52s rumbling the house when they flew over. There was also Tankers and F-106s. I still live close and we still see a few KC 135s flying around when they come up here for training missions. Great video.
Been wanting to visit here for YEARS! Thanks for the great history of the site. I remember it well in the news. Well done Michael and Joe!
Back when it was operational, geophysicists used the induced signal to trace conductors for base metal prospecting. When it was shutdown, they had to come up with other methods of signal generation.
Great video. Thanks for the update. I remember reading about E.L.F. wave program when I was in high school (This was around 1968 or 1969, and I am not sure where I read it.) I asked one of the officers in our Junior Naval ROTC program about the E.L.F. wave program. He got very upset and angry at me. He told me there was no such thing as E.L.F. waves. I always thought his reaction to my question was out of proportion to the subject matter. I must have hit a nerve with him. I don't know what his problem was, I just remember his reaction.
Probably read about it in Popular Science which published a story about ELF while it was still a secret program. My dad flipped when he saw the story.
@@bobabraham5060 ..Yes. I was reading Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, and Popular Electronics magazine religiously back then. I miss all that great content. I learned a lot from those magazines.
Thanks for putting this together. Extremely interesting and well done. Appreciate all of your videos. Keep up the good work
Excellent! So much to be learned here as a radio person. Thanks for entertaining the idea and taking the time to elaborate on past present and future of the area.
I would like to do a similar cold war relic video of an area here in Northern Illinois. We are home to the training area of over the horizon radar and troposcatter for the DEW line. There was a site in Pecatonica, IL and in Seward, IL that a pair of, I believe, 6 meter dishes with a couple thousand watts of power used to communicate back and forth. These areas were training areas for the guys that went up to man the DEW line systems in northern Canada and Alaska. If I can find the info site again I'll attach it to my comment below for others to read if they want.
Thanks for the mention about the idea for the video! I appreciate your efforts!
That would be fun, I find the DEW line really interesting. We have a SAGE RADAR site about 30 miles away from Wausau. I'd like to do a video on that, but unfortunately the area is a legitimate hazmat site and closed to the public.
Thank you for taking the time to properly subtitle your video's. A self-described 'radio-nut' family member has sadly gotten hard of hearing, and this helps him out tremendously enjoying his hobby!
Excellent video on an important part of our electronic history. It is a great thing to see this documented for future generations. TYFP!
I used to live near an old Nike site in the northern suburbs of Boston. These old Cold War sites are interesting and a good reminder of how crazy the world was that we took it all in stride, that at any moment: BOOM. The world is still a crazy place, just a bit different. Thanks for the video and all the work put into it.
TY for putting this together. Brings back memories.
I grew up around here, iron river Michigan. I grew up hearing about this. seeing these long swaths cut of of the woods is wild.
I studied this program years ago before so much of the antennas were destroyed. The fact that they look like power lines is pretty cool and stealthy!
Not really stealthy. It didn't take much to find out where they were. I'm sure they were primary targets for Russian missiles.
I was close to the Project Manager for Seafarer and Elf. Got up to see it in the eighties, and we inspected it via small aircraft by flying over it. There were still bait buckets around, saved souvenirs from the environmentalists who bought worms, dumped 'em on the ground, and told news crews it was driving the worms out of the earth. Was quite a thing.
Could you ask him if he’s ever heard of Doveland Wisconsin?
@@consilienc3 He's departed, sadly. I did go visit the ELF system with him once. Thought it was in Clam Lake or Haywood, in that area. Was a pretty cool. We went to some fish museum and walked up a four-story muskie where you could stand in an observation area in it's mouth. Different.
Thank you, this was very interesting, I have always been interested in this type of communication on the low frequencies. Great job on the video!
Great video...this ties together all the bits, parts and pieces that we've heard about for decades but weren't able to put together to make a complete story....but now you have! The study that the USN undertook to to identify the resonant frequency of the Earth's crust was very close to that realized by Nikola Tesla, although he never made his calculations or methods public. So many fascinating elements to the story of ELF!
If those well casings are still in place, I'm sure they'd be excellent to clamp your antenna ground onto for a POTA activation,
I'm going to see if I can find some for a revisit video
J: No, not really. 1. Soil is a very poor conductor of RF. Copper is over 1,000 times more conductive. Lesson: Throw down a radial or two. 2. RF doesn't conduct very deep in soil. Not much conductance below 5-10 feet. Well casings really don't offer an advantage over a typical ground rod. 73, bill
you did an amazing job explaining this complex and interesting topic. your no nonsense presentation made me an instant subscriber.
Being a submarine boomer type. Just because there were these sites like this, does not mean we were on the edge of destruction. it was always about maintaining communications with deployed assets. Maintaining numerous methods in the ability to deliver communications was a good thing, ELF VLF, UHF, EHF, SATCOM were all about maintaining the ability to communicate at any given time or requirement.
Exactly, the more ways to communicate the LESS chance of that old favorite of the anti-military left… an accidental launch triggering a full on nuclear response!
Fascinating video, Michael! Using an SDR, I have found FSK signals around 26-28khz, and even the atomic clock signal at 60khz.
VLF or Very Low Frequency communications are still widely used by the military. I believe the Naval VLF stations transmit around 24.8 kHz.
@@KB9VBRAntennas The frequency is 24khz.its NAA from Cutler Maine.You can pick it up with a sdr,sounds like fsk.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler
I did some deer hunting near the Clam Lake facility back in the 90s. Wasnt much to see, just some not very tall poles with two thick wires...cables?...mounted to them. I say "cables" due to the large diameter, much bigger than typical rural electric.
Beautiful area, we saw a few deer but even back then the area was mostly torn up from rutting elk.
EDIT: The 12:47 mark is incorrect, that cable is nowhere near the diameter that used to hang from the poles, which I would say were no more than 18 or 20' off the ground. Think of a cable being the diameter of say 1.5 or 2".
Thanks for your time and outstanding video on the ELF Project. Gary N1PZB
At 13:00 that's a lightning protection cable
Nice one Michael! I’ve been racking my brains on how the subs transmit back an acknowledgment now? Raising something to the surface or transmitting through the long antenna towed behind has its risks.
Any ideas? Cheers
It is unlikely that subs would have responded since that would compromise their location. ELF was a 1 way message. Just like a numbers station.
I live in Brunswick Maine and on the property behind me is a 65 acre field. It was formerly owned by the Navy. To my understanding it was a ELF site. The ground there is a mass of copper wire. In some of the places where the towers were nothing has ever grown back. I moved in my house in 1983 and the site was inactive but the main building was I place. I was constructed like a fortress. It was raised about 1990. The copper wire stuck up from the ground for several years till it was harvested and sold.
Most likely it was VLF or Very Low Frequency. The Navy maintained many VLF stations, especially near the coasts to communicate with submarines.
@@KB9VBRAntennas thanks for that info. I was inside it several times before it was raised. It looked almost abandoned like.
Very cool!! My sister was stationed in Cutler Maine, ever since I've loved antennas. No idea how they worked, but I love them.
Very interesting presentation. Earth conductivity, fascinating stuff. Kinda like tapping two stones together underwater. Person on the other side of the lake underwater hears the tapping at near same volume/intensity.
Thank you for the video. 73 W8DYE
Very Interesting, I served on an Attack Submarine in the early 70s. I was an Electronics Tech but a Nuke. Reactor Operator/maintained instrumentation and controls for the Reactor. Ken, N4FLG.
As a former Navy ET, I’ll just say… “Interesting, interesting indeed!”
I served on the USS Sam Rayburn SSBN 635 and the USS Haddo SSN604, both nuclear powered subs. The Rayburn trailed a very long VLF floating wire antenna, but the Haddo received with a mast mounted VLF antenna. The VLF transmission site was Cutler, Maine.
(DE K8QLW)
I worked on Haddo in Charleston, had many friends on her, mostly nukes.
Fascinating video. Well done Michael (and Joe). 73, George K2WO
Grew up in Hayward and when my sister was learning how to drive on the backroads around Clam Lake/Moose Lake area we stumbled upon the gate here in 2009-10 area. Neat, secret stuff and I've been obsessed with it ever since!
Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing this !
Back in the 90s I used to drive for a air-freight consolidator and I delivered to that location a few times.
I had no idea this even was a thing. Thanks for making the presentation. Good stuff.
In `1978 while finishing COLLEGE at UW Superior I finished my Naval Reserve duty. I Was a Radioman who supported P3 Orions tracking Russian Subs and did work a few times a year to test the ELF. It did not ORDER a launch but any disruption to the signal was an order to US SUBS to follow wartime footing and go to a preplanned position to receive a message from a brown wire PLANE. (that is all I can say) You can assume all clear message were receive by our SUB as there was never a war. The US SUBS received sealed positions and were in the CO XO Safe and placed new each time a US SUB went ON STATION
Thank You for the video. During the late sixties o mid 70' s I served in the submarine reserve unit and sailed in the North
Atlantic this was very informative, l enjoy all your videos!
I spent 2 months in that area in the summer of 1974. I was a graduate student on geophysics and we worked on measuring the electrical properties of the near surface and upper crust (the upper 10 miles or so). Don't remember what the results or conclusions were, but I remember the beauty of the Wisconsin woods in the summer. Haven't been back there since then in the summer, it's on my list of things to do.
At my university in the 1980s, I worked in a lab that studied the effect of low-frequency RF on simple leaf mold. I helped build power supplies and data collection.
Excellent video! I really enjoyed this...thank you both for taking the time to research, film, and edit this.
We had a transmitter at NORAD Cheyenne Mountain in the 70's that I was told was a Thru Earth transmitter for talking to subs.
There's an elf station in Washington State. Jim Creek Naval Airstation. When you're driving north on I-5 leaving Everett, you can see the towers that hold up the antenna as they are higher than 200 feet above the ground and need the red strobes on the towers.
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to make it and share!
Good stuff! I learned something today. Thanks
Great video! Fascinating stuff. I used to drive through there all the time when I was in college going between the Twin Cities and Houghton. I knew about the site but never took the time to check it out when going through. Next time I go through I'll have to look more carefully.
Project Seafarer or something similar may be what I was told existed in a band between the southern boundary of the U.S. Amry Pohakuloa Training Area (PTA) and Mauna Loa volcano. In the late 1980s I was a civilian environmental specialist with the Army Corps of Engineers in Honolulu, HI, and was preparing an environmental impact statement for new training range faclilty near the south central part of PTA. This included botanicial, bat, and archaelogical idnetification studies, some of which might have resulted in our contractors coming across the Navy antenna fields. I never saw any antennas but was just told about them.
Glad I could help with this video. It was very cool!
Just came upon this, non expert, found it well scripted and presented, highly informative.
Very interesting topic. I'm old enough to remember the concerns over ELF & always wondered how the project progressed & if it was worth all the trouble.
Interesting how the antenna runs were converted from project ELF to project ELK .
This was incredibly interesting! Thanks for posting this!
Excellent Video Micheal, thx, this will get many views 😀
Great video. We have the Cutler VLF station still up communicating with subs today at 24khz. I would bet that the ELF buildings have very extensive underground grounding systems you do not see (exceeding Moto r56 standards, etc..)
Cutler was the station where we copied the submarine broadcast when on patrol in the North Atlantic back during the Cold War - always reliable with a very strong signal…
Cutler is very interesting. I have driven by it. Some of the antenna masts are almost 1000 feet tall and the array can be seen from Canada on a clear day.
Very interesting. I learned something worthwhile today! Thank you!
When living on K.I. Sawyer back in the late 80's my Dad told me local farmers were not happy with project E.L.F. Claims of disturbing livestock and cattle.
Low character transmission rates were also rumored about this technology. Thank you for this video, the research and travelling to the Wisconsin site.
I remember back in the '80s that there was much concern over EMI and electrical ground loops from high voltage power lines disrupting dairy cattle production. Some of the concern was warranted and power companies improved their transmission systems. But I think ELF got caught up in that controversy; there isn't much for farming in northwestern Wisconsin (and that part of the UP for that matter).
@@KB9VBRAntennas you are correct. I don't miss the Winters. Although the UP was prettier then than it is now with all the logging going on around the base. The homes have fallen into disrepair.
Being a lifelong military brat and serving myself, seeing the area deteriorated is just sad. I'm sure Wurtsmith, Blytheville and other SAC bases suffered the same fate.
In researching for this video I was reading about K I Sawyer. Its closure in the early '90s impacted over 30% of the workforce. I'm sure Marquette would have been decimated if it wasn't for the university. We were up there back in May, Gwinn is a shell of its former self, but Marquette is a vibrant community.
I'm a ham and love history. I'd heard of ELF but knew little about it. Great stuff!
Decent movie made about ELF starring Wil Ferrell.
Fascinating stuff thank you! Can you do a feature on the old AN-FLR9 HF - aka "Elephant Cage" antennas which were dotted around the world? We had one in the UK at RAF Chicksands. Looking on Google satellite view the groundworks are still very apparent from the aerial view even though the antennas themselves were removed long ago? 👍
Fascinating, thanks for the video! I would guess that the braided wire dangling behind the building is part of a lightning rod system and not a part of the old transmission wire system. We have a similar abandoned project here in Northern Virginia, a couple miles south of Alexandria in the Washington, DC suburbs. Not sure of the dates or technology, but it’s a huge, circular network of wires that are in the water and muck of a large marsh. It’s now called Huntley Meadows Park and is a great place for bird watching. There are raised boardwalks leading around park and some of the wires are still visible. Don’t know much off the top of my head, but believe it acted as a giant radar dish that was used to communicate with P-3 Orion “Sub Searcher” planes around the globe.
Fascinating history and science!
Wow, fantastic job. Thank you for this.
Great mini documentary...... Like you, I think it is so cool to actually visit these historical sites to get a feel for the area...... I’m from Michigan and wasn’t aware of this operation..... Thanks for sharing..
Excellent! Thank you for this great content. I have always been interested in the ELF project. Well done.
Living in Wisconsin, I remember all the news stories about the protests. It was good to be able to do this video and get a bit of closure on the program.
No mention of the Naval com base at Dixon CA? 1947-1997 VLF and ELF. It was about 1300 acres IIRC.
We expected radio problems as we drove Sacramento to San Francisco in 1960-1970's. A portion of that site is now a VA national cemetery.
Great job sir! Wonderfully presented. You have me doing a similar video on a local site. 73 God bless
Wow this is fascinating Michael, I did not know about this system. Thank you for reviewing this topic. I am going to research more on this.
My family had a cabin slightly north of Clam Lake on Sider lake (now owned by my uncle) 70’s - to early 90’s, we were totally unaware of this. Very interesting though! ⚡️
Great info, very good vid.
thanks also good to meet you on Sunday
It was a pleasure meeting you. Thanks again.
This dude never blinks.
Hi Michael that was a wonderful video I’m going to history lesson I never knew about. It’s really amazing that it is your backyard. Thank you for taking your time and the others to help to you to produce this video I really enjoyed it.
WD5ENH
Steve
We had a great time exploring the forest and the ELF site. If you saw my 'Black Lake POTA adventure," (last week's video), you will see the other side of our weekend hijinks.
Jim Creek is a Navy VLF station in WA that is still in use I believe. Wires are strung across the valley. They have a military recreation area and we were able to cabin camp there a few years ago in a lovely deep forest environment. While I understood the nature of the place and some irony that they allowed people to recreate so close to a vital communication network, a few years later when Putin wanted to put on a threatening posture a supposed list of likely first targets was put out, and there was Jim Creek, it was humbling.
I live in the south of France & am a diver in the Mediterranean. About 15 years ago whilst undertaking a dive at St Jean Cap Ferrat in the bay of Villafranche sur mer, 8 miles east of Nice. We were told my some military personal not to go beyond a certain point as it was restricted & if we did we would be arrested & equipment confiscated. Some time later I chanced upon a very small printed press article, I forget were, The piece mentioned that underwater communications were being experimented with. Maybe this has something to do with ELF. I am aware that various subsonic sounds are transmitted through water some 5 times faster than through air, probably marine mammals communicate this way, very interesting subject, thanks
This is EXCELLENT. More like this please.
I remember driving through the Chequamegon-Nicolet National Forest and seeing the overhead wires. I knew it by it's original name of project Sanguine.
Back in the 70s, an engineer friend of mine, described how, during WWII, when amateur radio was shut down, hams experimented with ground communications. For transmitting, two rods were driven into the ground, some distance apart. The output of an audio amplifier was connected to them, with a mike for the input. The receiver was the opposite, the rods connected to the amp's input. Apparently, effective voice communication was achieved, but I don't know what the range was. This scheme would be useful today, for communicating secretly--at least until those who snoop figured out what you were doing.
Great video. The only thing I take argument with is the statement that we are not at risk for nuclear war. Sadly, we are just as much at risk of nuclear war as we ever were and that was before Ukraine. Now with the war between Russia and Ukraine and with China making noise over Taiwan, we are actually closer to nuclear war than ever. It is time the population of the US woke up to that fact.
Very interesting and informative!