2T Re-sleeving Process
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- In this video we look at the process to re-sleeve a 2 stroke cylinder. One of these days I'll do it myself and shwo you how its done. Pictures from John Tice.
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Good video. I've had that process done. Used SEP in Kegworth. Old school motorcycle engineers. Did a great job. Thought it was a bit expensive at the time but now think it was a bargain after seeing whats involved.
On our dirtbikes sometimes if a ring or piston shits the bed we have to send them off to be resleeved , but usually the nikasil coating is all that needs repaired
Hey I have a 2002 Yamaha Aerox 50 which I like tinkering on muchly so. As you said, it's cheaper with these to buy the whole cylinder assembly for these than to go out and having the rebuilding process done. I love the whole 2 stroke powerband kick-in-the-pants feeling, and you don't get that with 4 stroke, I don't care what anyone says. It's got a generic 70 kit and a leo vince exhaust at the moment, but it's soon to get a stage 6 mid race 70 cylinder , a 21mm carb, vforce reeds,12mm crank, digital ignition and overrange variator kit. They're the best for around town mopeds.
I completely appreciate the fact that you're busy mate and of course in your own time but a video going into more detail about why engines need sleeves/liners would be brilliant bud.
No need for a video on why engines need sleeves mate i've been intouch with darton who's focus is more towards cars but they've explained that sleeves are needed when increasing power because the stock cast iron/aluminium block would crack under the increased pressure from combustion. Cheers anyways mate.
Crack? Lol that's bollocks. Aluminium is too soft. Sleeves are inserted to extend the life of the block.
Aluminium cylinders can be coated instead of sleeving.
Whoever told you that is talking bollocks.
Look up hoop stress.
@@dirtygarageguy Wow, I fucking believed them as wel i'm just a gullible bastard mate 😂
@@dirtygarageguy looked it up mate, from what I can gather hoop stress causes the cylinder to expand, I take it sleeves would prevent this from happening?
I have used LA sleeve 2stroke sleeves which have ports CNC machined into them, just mark a compelling on top & on the sleeve top hat, machine barrel 0.1 smaller, heat barrel in a oven, then line up centre lines & quickly hammer sleeve with block of wood, then leave in hydraulic press to cool for shrink fit so it doesn't lift.
Thank you for the well explained video. The last video I looked at was the work only not one word was spoken. Perhaps it was a video for the def IDK. I will look for your video of the procedure for sleeve R&R in the future thanks again.
Im working on resleeving a mcculloch 790 . . I attempted to bore it over before the correct boring head arrived. I was inpatient and stupid, which ruined it, and a resleeve seems like an impossible task normally with these. But after watching several videos of other peoples way of doing it i think i can do it. But ill have to lathe my own sleeve.. videos to come in a couple months. I will be boring the steel sleeve out, machining my own sleeve to match my piston and the jug, nikasil coating, then press it in.
Fantastic video, very precise and helpful , can’t wait to see the next one
been trying to figure out for many yrs now how to get a port impression on a sleeve. very detail video. thanks
Great videoi always wanted to know how it was done my a10 is having this work also putting iron head on how it was supposed to be originally
Whoa! 😱
You are going to do one of these jobs online, that is forking awesome! 👍🏻
all your videos are great
Honing makes sense, when you press er in she squeaks and creaks the material into the voids?
Grampian motors still do resleeving for anyone needing it!
I think I remember hearing someone talking about drilling the new sleeve close to its final bore when mounted for good, then heating the whole cylinder to relieve any stress that might cause it to warp when being run to full temperature for the first time. After heat cycling it you would then drill the last 0.5mm or somthing
"drilling"? - Do you mean boring?
@@dirtygarageguy yeah sure did, my mistake
LOL no worries - I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. As to the question - sounds like bollocks. The piston to cylinder clearance is defined by the piston OD and thermal expansion. If the bore was 0.05 too small the piston WILL seize, even during the 1st heat cycle
@@dirtygarageguy Yes I understand, but from what i remember the guy said the bore could deform a little(like 0.02) during the first heat cycle and thus the piston clearance would be to tight in spots not by much, but enough to want to heat cycle it once before doing the final bore. Since aluminium and whatever you use for the sleeve has different thermal expansion rates and there is not an even amount of material around the sleeve I guess it would not be impossible for it to deform a little bit when heat cycled. Might not matter anyway but just a thought.
My 2 strokes with sleeves always had a pin location to locate the sleeve correctly, clock wise....yes, it was race stuff so that might have a part in the equation.
I should add there was no reason to etch because the liner came with the ports pretty close. You just do light work to match for port timing and such.
the press fit is not required on most applications ,heat expansion is enough room for the sleeve to fall out or in . your hone size with expansion is in mind is the interference fit that holds the sleeve in place. some casting are so massive a press type fit is required but only in that type of situation.
In India, the 2 stroke blocks are not heated up, the factory sleeve is not removed. The Lathe guys bore out the factory sleeve and then they press the local sleeve onto the block.
So now you have the remains of the factory sleeve + the local sleeve, the ports don't match, the engine often overheats and there have been cases where the local sleeve starts to rotate and you blow the whole thing up.
So yeah :/
Great video , thanks.
Good job
you still need to chamfer the ports so you dont snag piston rings. cool video have never seen anyone make there own sleeve considering LA sleeves has all the hard parts done for you.
Tommy Kennedy
he also botched the sketch of what happens with mismatched attack angle of milling.
if you're milling away the etched part the ports in the casting will line up but air has to hook at a sharp angle and the milled ports at the inside of the bore are what ends up wrong.
mondayfool
run a spot drill around the edge. you can chamfer anything you can profile.
I'd be inclined to do the whole job start to finish on a rotary table set on end milling in the A rotation axis.
*edit* scratch the spot drill, I forgot it's inside. dovetail cutter.
mondayfool most guys just use a right angle Pencil grinder to chamfer the ports. No point in doing it on the mill if you are just going to bore it out again
"he also botched the sketch of what happens with mismatched attack angle of milling."
- what?
The Workshop
at 13:40. if the sleeve is already etched and you have the sleeve in the mill, you're looking at the OD of the sleeve and milling on that. assuming you take away the etched part and leave the non etched it would be the ID where the milled thru ports don't line up the way they should. the sleeve would still line up with the casting but the air has to make a sharp angle or potentially the ports end up in a shape on the interior of the sleeve that fucks piston rings.
nice work
Id never hone 2mm tho lol thats how you get wavy walls. Stones do not wear evenly. Old Mccullochs have caps to access all ports with a mill which is handy for adding ports
Hi , I have a job needing something like this.
My cylinder is nickel coated.
Plan was to bore out , fit a new iron cylinder and port to suit .
Woukd you take on a job like that ?
It's a rare engine , new parts are not available.
Thanks
No, sorry.
when you explained the cuts on the new sleeve arround minute 13:30 something, the cuts are starting from the outside of the sleeve in to the inside, because thats where you have the markings from the acid, so the holes are going to match just with an abrupt change of angle from cylinder to sleeve.
what? You totally missed what I said
what about cast alusil vs nicasil plated?
when you fuk up a nikasil cylinder you have to plate it again, you have at least 4 bores on a cast iron sleeve. i bought a cast iron cylinder for my 87 kx 250. it was sleeved in other words.
Yes nicasil is like that but alusil is aluminum alloy with high content of silicon. Alusil cylinders are not sleeved or plated.
Good stuff👍
Do you address motorcycle only topics, or are there other, unrelated, subjects you would cover?
Engineering, engines, motorcycle - NOT cars
More 2stroke tech info please
When you say most of the time 2T cylinders are just replaced not resleeved.... My local bike shop that recently sent my 2T motocross cylinder off to be resleeved said that they hardly have anyone buy a new cylinder, and that most people just get them resleeved.
a sample of 1 - well done
Is there a limit to how many times a two stroke can be resleeved?
The only issue you have with a thick sleeve is one of heat conductivity. We use 2 stroke race engines that are air cooled, and a thick liner means you have to run more fuel to cool it which produces less power. So whilst it's good from a structural point of view, from a performance point of view, not so much :)
You scared the hell outa me man. I have a new bike and it was just blown by a guy I was gonna trade to. So I just bought a stock replacement sleeve and piston. Then I realized you are talking about making a new sleeve for the jug. Not a pre-made one for a original popular bike
Hello my son has a 04 rm 85 is a sleeve a good choice cylinder is scratched pretty good? Thank you
I dont understand the question
we learned about this in school
Okay mate but where do you get good quality sleeves from?
Can you do a video please about cheap Chinese cylinder/top end kit vs genuine Japanese ones
I was thinking about how they put it back in the right way half-way across the video. The dowel is a pretty neat idea but it doesn't really guarantee it does it ? Cannot the sleeve and cylinder be keyed at a safe angle ? You need more machinnery but it would be straightforward then right ?
How much is power affected from dents in two stroke pipe moreover obviously size is a factor but at what point is a pipe not performing it's job
Is sleeving reduces the perfomance of bike?
how?
My 98 and 97 kx250 2 strokes are both sleeved from LA sleeves. I did the sleeves at home with my press, they run strong with lots of power!
Nice vid. X
I just make my own sleeves from the start, light press fit by hand and some stud grade lock tight makes for a perfect fit.
loctite loses it's strength with heat, that's how you remove it. Not a good idea.
I would of thought that that would act as a thermal barrier between the sleeve and the cylinder?
You need one thousandth interference per inch of diameter minimum, freeze sleeve heat cylinder to install.
Hello, what is the right nitric acid concentration to not damage the aluminium? Thank you!
can you sleeve a 2013 ktm250sx and how is it done do they have to bore the cylinder out to fit the sleeve
Thank you uv convince me not to even consider re sleaving my 2 stroke
HARRRDDD!!! 😎
Yesssssssss
Nice ! do you feel any difference when you re sleeve a nicasil plated barrel ? (Suzuki rgv 250 vj22)
Because my barrels are a bit damaged and maybe it can no be replated to the standart bore.
I have seen that pjma from UK does this.
Best regards from Austria
Chris
Revvs it as easy as with nicasil ? And water temperature?
Suggestion for next video:
What'll happen if you put 2T expantion tank on 4T. I would like to know if it mess up the sound and what will happen on 4- bangers?
Gedas alekveravičius there's is a video where they're idling a 4T quad and they put a 2 stroke expansion chamber on it.
behemothfan666 fuck the Pope I saw that, (this inspired me) but I want technical explaination about that
It will sound like shit and may damage the exhaust because 2T pipes aren't meant to handle the higher temperatures of 4T exhausts. Aside from that it won't do anything good or bad.
slightly off topic, but have you done a video on pod filters and jetted carbs vs stock airbox? would like to hear your thoughts on this subject. :)
Not yet but its coming
cheers, looking forward to it..
Hey! Do you know any shop that sells sleeves to europe for 1983 Kawasaki kx 80cc?
Not for something that old no - sorry dude
Try LA sleeve. I'm not sure if they'll ship to europe. But I order sleeves from them in the US for my 97 and 98 kx250's
my honda nsr 125 is blowing up all the gaskets you thing it is due to too much compresion ratio?
Are you using OEM gaskets and what's your squish measurement?
Head and cylinder may not be flat anymore, also if it has had a sleeve installed be sure the sleeve has not sunk in the casting, too many times sleeves are incorrectly installed because the person doing it was in a hurry.
Can you make a video about Nicasil cylinders that motocross have and why you dont hone it with a WallMart hooning tool.
I read in forums that alot of ppl hone their cylinders to make xrosshach everytime they change pistons,
yes I can
And I won't hone anything with anything from walmart!
The Workshop Haha exactly
Hiya matt. Recently i've seen a discussion on the internet involving brake calipers. Discussion was about using brake cleaner or WD40 to clean your brake calliper. what would you recommend?
WD-40 is >25% petrolium oil, never good on brakes. WD-40 the company make this - www.wd40.co.uk/wd-40-specialist-motorbike/brake-cleaner/
End of argument!
I wouldnt use wd40 anyway since brake cleaner was specifically made for cleaning brakes. But the argument against brake cleaner was that it dries out the rubber seals.
Was just wondering about your opinion on the matter. Thanks.
Wow
Any chance you can link the songs used in your intros?
I'd like to know "who gets paid to much for this shit."
David Vermillion Lonely Island - We're back
Yeah Matt this intro sounds so funky, please give us the goods!
Lonely Island - We're back
I already answered that, lol
when you getting the work shop mate
1-2 years depending on everything. Watch the history of the channel video, I explain everthing
I like the video and your style of explaining Johns process, but that is by far not the best way to do it. There are so many reasons why. Did you ever get to trying it out yourself?
I'd love the hear the 'best way to do it' - over to you
The Workshop
Ok challenge accepted, however it is going to be hard to put 30+ years of doing it in a reply on YT but let’s stick with what is wrong with JT methods.
You need a very good thermal transfer you achieve this by the finish on both the sleeve and the cylinder wall, the cylinder is honed and the outsider the sleeve is ground. You have a interference fit of around 0.012mm depending on the cylinder. Now the issue is once you have heated up the cylinder and dropped the sleeve in (you don’t press it in) and it cools you get distortion to the sleeve and the cylinder, so if you then remove the sleeve you now have a distorted hole and sleeve and you have lost most of your interference fit. You can and should not put the same sleeve back in, you will not get the perfect fit and thermal conductivity.
The next issue is the “acid etch” method, seriously flawed as the ports (mainly the transfer ports) all shot up at a angle, so your etched line is not where you need the port to start and stop, the bottom of the port will usually be 2-3 mm higher than what the cylinder casting is, in some cases GT750/ RD350-400 etc there is no lower part of the port left the new sleeve has to have the port cut in the correct place. This is where port maps and accurately measuring is key to getting a job that is equivalent to the original sleeve that was fitted by the manufacturer.
When I make a sleeve, all the ports are cut into it and on installation they are in the correct place and required minimum and I really do mean minimum fettling.
Let me know if you need any more info
@@MrVee66 hey man coukd you please help me with my cilinder issues? I bought one used from ebay (it175 1977) looks like i was a bad resleeved one because the ports are no aligned, the sleeve sits about 2mm lower than the cilinder. Even the top of the sleeve is below the cilinder, any way to fix that? Thanks
@@carlosdavidgalarza9338 i really cannot see how you can fix it without starting over
@@MrVee66 you mean heating the cilinder to press out the sleeve and reinstall it?
I would like to ask you a question. It doesn't pertain to this video but, after watching many of your videos, you sound like the guy I should ask... Ok I had a main crank bearing pop 1 single ball out and seize up... It did not damage the crank or ANYTHING else besides the case on the opposite side of the bearing that broke???... Scared it up pe pretty good. Here's my question, if I sand the case smooth, just to where it knocks the sharp edges off, then install the crank with the correct feeler gauge for my motor, putting the feeler guage on the seated bearing, that would make my combustion chamber a bit bigger right, or would this not work? Thanks a bunch
So, more less, I would be opening both sides inside the case, because I'm going to sand them as close as possible to the same exact dimensions, but essentially keeping the crank in the center by using the feeler guage on the bearing surface. I think the deepest gouge from the bearing going out may be 10-15 thousands deep. That's why I think I can do it. It'll let me save my cases, put new bearings, but most of all have a bigger combustion chamber. Have you ever heard of this being done before or do u think it'll even work?
Any help would be greatly appreciated... Doesn't have to be him.. Thank you
"It did not damage the crank or ANYTHING else besides the case on the opposite side of the bearing that broke???.."
This is because the bearing can now 'tip' where the ball is missing - think of it like a see-saw, if one end tip the other end pops up.
"then install the crank with the correct feeler gauge for my motor, putting the feeler guage on the seated bearing, that would make my combustion chamber a bit bigger right, or would this not work? Thanks a bunch"
- Do you mean wedge a feeler gauge in between the casing and the bearing and leave it there? Because if that's what you mean then NO.
@@dirtygarageguy no install the main bearing into the housing, but then put a feeler guage on top the bearing to install the crank. As opposed to have the feeler guage resting on the housing.. I guess what I'm really asking is me, very gently, taking out material from the crank case on the sides of the crank would be ok? Not only would I not have to buy a crankcase, but it would make the chamber for air/fuel mixture bigger.
And thanks for the explanation on why the opposite side of the screwed up bearing is damaged more. 👍
can sleeve causes deceases in milege of bike?
do you mean re-sleeving? And no, it increases the life of an engine, if that's what you mean????
is there 2t without sleeve ?
Yes there are, I said in the video
thanks ! skipped this part... probably distracted by my homeworks :')
Still no word on how to re-sleeve yo mrs
No lol
shove in a ham and pull out the bone.
Hi nat
nice abom pic
ooh no rubber....baby whiteboards...
damn, was just watching the replay from IOM from Sunday, TT dudes got balls the size a watermelons!
ruclips.net/video/sjZXaUwYoog/видео.html