It's comical how they recognize that it's really bad behavior when it's done to them (narcissists) but they don't see anything wrong, doing worse things to you and others.
Yeah, they guy I dated bragged about stealing money from one his former employers but when, after months of gaslighting (he basically got back together with his 'ex' behind my back and kept denying it even after they got into couples therapy together!!), he once forgot to log out off Facebook on my computer and I checked his messages to stop feeling like I'm losing my mind.... basically all hell broke loose... And ofc he ignored all the evidence of his multiple blatant lies because of the fact that the way I found out was 'unethical' lmao
@@alltheliliesbloomed Yes, the bragging about getting away with something shows a superior and entitled attitude. There is also a screaming double standard in that he is holding you to the standards you would be in court (fruit of the poisoned tree) regarding how you obtained your 'evidence'.
@@lt827 And forgetting to log out of his Facebook account is his own action (although I would never take advantage of that in any other context or situation); it's not like I hired a private detective to spy on him 😉 And after I tried to go 'no contact' with him, I found out spyware on my computer & multiple fake accounts started harrassing me through social media..
And they still do, maybe to a slightly lesser extent, to this very day even though it's been more than a year at this point (+ I had to pay a lot of money to get rid of the spyware, sold my computer and changed all the passwords + enabled two-step verification everywhere & and did a factory reset on my phone as well).. What an ugly & demented world we live in. I wanted to report it to the police and they told me that if the computer guy wrote a note on paper that he found spyware on my device, it would be enough to start a case but unfortunately, when I contacted the guy, he told me he's no longer working 'due to health issues' as soon as he heard the word 'police' and therefore he cannot help me...
I am still considering reporting the whole thing though (if the police refuses to help, I can always appeal their decision but it's a lot of additional paper work, additional stress and lost time + I was kind of hoping that the guy would get tired of making my life miserable by now but life is full of suprises it apparently...)
Just ask yourself: "is this who I am?", "Is this who I was before?", "did I behave like this in my past relationships?" Most likely the answer is "no".
I didn't understand gaslighting and narcissism and was so frustrated I would "lose it" but I always wanted to "fix" the relationship. That wasn't her plan.
I've blown so many gaskets by yelling and screaming at my narcassistic abusive husband and horrible mother. It will sound dramatic saying this...its pretty amazing I didn't have an aneurysm or heaŕt attack. All while they'd sit so calm and coy. Looking at me like I was the freakazoid!
You getting upset is the result they need. I'd typically get their "I know you get upset" maneuver to put me on the defensive. I finally learned to stay calm and carry on.
We did and do what we had to to survive. Not wanted to, HAD to. When you are pushed down so far you only have limited choices -lay there and die that way, or come up mentally swinging, lying, and plotting how to escape.
As an Empath, I absolutely knew some of the things I did when I was in that narcissistic relationship was sooooooo unhealthy and unsettling to my insides… that it was a huge red flag to say “you have to get out - just leave”. It all stemmed from what I suspected he was doing behind my back… and I was right in the end. My gut told me something was off. …and I did. I left. Never looking back. Never having to worry about any of that any longer. I took care of Me. I was true to Me. ❤
Since, this is a part of a "process," that has employment significance, I will admit that I spoke too long and too frequently with a married male co-worker. He had invited me to a family gathering, but I said no when he revealed that he was married. It was a very stressful job situation for me and it was hard figuring out my next career move. In any case, it was inappropriate. I had already broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years. I still talked with this ex, but he was not as interested in friendship. I did nothing physical with my coworker. I still feel like this process is warped and I still stand by my criticism of the employer. We are in a new world. I don't care so much that this is seen as a valid screening tool. This does not make me fearful of my career direction. I will add that when I told a long-time female friend about the invite to the family gathering, she told me that I should not have assumed that he was interested in me when he invited me. She did not agree with me that he acted single before his invitation. My gut said something different. It does count as an emotional affair, and we mostly talked about our experiences in the lab.. On the job, sometimes we talked about my past relationships as well and he kept trying to get me to slip up and reveal my age. He also indicated that he had girlfriends on the side in the past. He said other things that made me unsure if he had an open relationship, but I was not interested in dating him either way.
I can’t tell you how helpful this is! When the narcissist(s) are family members you feel so hurt, angry, and confused! Thank you Dr Ramani for understanding and putting a voice to our feelings! Your videos are so helpful!
I did things in my narcisstic relationship I never thought I'd do. It wasn't me, I came to really dislike that version of myself. Thank goodness I finally recognized what I was doing and came back to my normal self. I did go no contact with the two narcissists in my life that brought out the worst in me. Thank you for this Dr. Ramini. ❤
So much self-doubt being ingrained into me from narcissists always telling me that I’m wrong and making me feel like I’m worthless. For a long time I was unemployed because I had so many toxic coworkers and bosses constantly telling me that I’m not doing the work correctly, so for many years I was afraid to work thinking I’m not good enough.
During the sociopath relationship I was a mess!! I couldn’t even hold a conversations with an adult. I would walk the children and assume everyone driving by thinking bad things about me. Standing at traffic lights my mouth would be quivering from the anxiety so no. I never partook in their sneaky evil behaviour. But after I broke up with him, in prayer I studied every self help book their was on confidence self esteem, neuroscience, narcissistic abuse and clawed myself out of anxiety without doctors or medication. It was hard! But I developed hyper independence, “strong single women” 🙄 lonewolf self identity and isolated myself never allowed anyone into my life. I was still scapegoated at work too, people taking credit for my work, lying about me I felt like covert narcs were everywhere. But God was still there. My whole life narc abuse has been part of my journey but I’m grateful that God has utilised it all to give me great compassion. I serve the community now, in a food ministry, making a meaningful impact on the lives of many people I can relate too with sincerity. God had turned my pain and the plans meant for evil, into character traits He can use for good. 🥳✨🙏
That really helps Dr Ramani. I have always had this belief that if I was a mature and stable person, I would never get angry or upset or "bubble over", because I would have inner confidence and good self-esteem as described in all the self-help books I've read etc. So when I do crumble and behave in ways I don't want to and that go against my values of how I want to treat people and how I'd like them to treat me, then I see myself as broken and that I am the cause of the troubles. But it's true, this only happens with the toxic relationships and not with my other relationships, so I should be more compassionate to myself and stop expecting to be perfect....
I have felt this same exact way as you! Let's remember to be kind and patient with ourselves. We give that out so freely to so many others but crazy how we don't give it to ourselves, sometimes I feel guilty for giving it to myself.....but not any longer as I navigate this healing journey.
I have felt the same too. On top of it, I felt in moments when I was really angry or unstable with the narcissists I was angry and unfair towards other normal people around me. And I hated it, I hated becoming a crazy person who behave badly for no reason and make upset other normal people around.
I have felt the same too. I have also said most of the things Dr.Ramani pointed out. I am also feeling terribly guilty when I self-reflected, but it is hampering my healing process. Suddenly, this video pops up on RUclips. Thank you God for showing me the path and thanks Dr. Ramani !!!
I tried very hard to remain calm and not scream back at him. Then one day after 25 years together I lost my composure and screamed right back in his face. Well several months later I was able to walk again without pain and I got a tattoo to cover the scars from him slamming me into a wall. No regrets though because I have 1.5 yrs of no contact under my belt and I live a peaceful, yet isolated, existence.
So sorry you had to go through this. Your story high-lights how hard it is to understand Narcs and what they are capable of. Many survivors are afraid to speak up or leave, and rightfully so. I hope your future will be less isolated and you find some trustworthy decent people to be friends with.
Fighting BACK against abuse is NOT "also abuse." People who tell you that it is, are gaslighting you. This includes the Narcissist, so-called "well meaning" others... AND yes, even yourself.
Wow. I've been told by a friend probably over 10 years ago something similar. But put in the frame of "abuse" (abusive is how I've come to think of and even describe myself to others), I really needed to hear that. Holy moly. Thank you.😢
@@CherylWithASea The only time the fight response is accepted is in life and death, and then sometimes not. If you can get out, don't stay in an abusive situation. Follow your gut.
I said I hated him,I wish I never met him and I smashed a gift he gave me . He was going out to cheat but I still feel guilt for losing it like that. I'm a gentle and empathic person and believe it or not,I've never wished him harm or tried to hurt him on purpose.
They deliberately bring out the worst in their victims so they can feel superior. He probably loved your behavior and any protest he made was performative and another excuse to criticize you.
Reading Doc Ramani's book, and this woman is as sharp as a tack-she leaves no stone unturned, no nuance untouched. Her acute ability to see what others miss comes, sadly, perhaps from her own suffering. This is a person with firsthand experience. Had she not gone through what she attests to in this video-probably countless forms of it in her life-she wouldn’t be able to help countless people in this particular manner. It feels almost eerily like a sacrifice by divine appointment. Things I feel are in my head, or so twisty-turny and difficult to explain when you've been twisted into a pretzel by those bastards-Ramani just straightens it all out. And in the process, she helps gently straighten you out. I’ve got an unwanted experiential PhD in narcissism, and though I’m otherwise articulate, I cannot find words to describe my suffering. Yet, there it is-every word of it-in her book. I fell into a hole wondering if I am the narc, constantly falling into self-blame after each incident with a narc. (By the way, how come interactions with these bastards always have to be filed as incidents, collisions, problems, or challenges?!) I felt deeply ashamed as I was the common denominator in all these situations, so naturally, I began to think there is a problem with me and that I even have a personality disorder. Meanwhile, those demonic wankers are riding into the horizon without a hair's breadth of accountability. My well-meaning therapists just don’t 'get it.' Get countless sessions of therapy for 15 bucks in her book ITS NOT YOU: please buy it for yourself!
My father was a narcissist to the nth degree and it was the only thing in which he excelled. I was the truth teller and scapegoat and felt the need to stick up for mom while my sister would either deny or justify his actions. By the time I was 13 I gave as good as I got and it infuriated him and that’s why I loved every minute of it.
I finally stood up for myself after years of emotional abuse from the narcissistic in law when she verbally assaulted me for no reason at my mother’s house. My family tried to blame me because I stood up to her, but they are enablers. I know the truth so standing strong in my convictions. I have not felt safe with them and don’t like how I became an unhealthy version of myself from all their toxicity. Giving myself lots of grace that I did the best I could in some awful situations and that it’s not all my fault even if I finally yelled back. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
I definitely can relate. Nobody knows my narc father in law like I do. Been married 39 years. He was a church leader. Then of all things, I’m the one that catches him in questionable situations with two other women. Being scared to death of him I was afraid to tell my mother in law. It’s uncanny. He’s threatened my life. He hugged a strange woman in front of me at a pro golf tournament. Then said “You didn’t see that”. Then silence. Caught him behind the counter at the local store with a beautiful red head. Nothing. It’s so easy to fall into the trap of doing things that you’re not proud of to deal with them.
My only bad behavior was eventually snapping after enough verbal abuse. It took a marriage counselor educating me on my wife being a narcissist, her treatment of me being abuse, and that it would never stop, to finally get steered down the path towards Dr. Ramani's content, and learning about gray rocking.
This video is very helpful and very insightful. Honestly, I have felt I was worse than the narc between dealing with the narc, dealing with a narc parent, and dating previous narcs. At 50 years ago, I have said I don't like who I am, especially in romantic relationships. All this toxicity being oh so "familiar", I know it the reason I have allowed myself to remain stuck and many time halt my healing journey. I am exhausted and want to know what it is like on the other side of the unknown and finally let go of "the familiar."
I am not boastful, nor proud of my behavior during the narcs discard . My actions and comments came from a place within, to protect my safety, sanity, and emotional security. I never want to be in a situation or relationship like that again.
Thanks. I own my toxic behavior, but I'm trying to heal and stop settling. I notice that most aren't interested in taking accountability or doing the work (changing). Don't settle. We got this.
Since, this is a part of a "process," that has employment significance, I will admit that I spoke too long and too frequently with a married man at my job. He had invited me to a family gathering, but I said no when he revealed that he was married. It was a very stressful job situation for me and it was hard figuring out my next career move. In any case, it was inappropriate. I had already broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years. I still talked with this ex, but he was not as interested in friendship. I did nothing physical with my coworker. I still feel like this process is warped and I still stand by my criticism of the employer. We are in a new world. I don't care so much that this is seen as a valid screening tool. This does not make me fearful of my career direction. I will add that when I told a long-time female friend about the invite to the family gathering, she told me that I should not have assumed that he was interested in me when he invited me. She did not agree with me that he acted single before his invitation. My gut said something different. It does count as an emotional affair, and we only talked about our experiences in the lab. He also indicated that he had girlfriends on the side in the past. He said other things that made me unsure if he had an open relationship, but I was not interested in dating him either way.
After years of a narcissistic abuse and toxic behavior from my family and people, I finally decided to walk away and get space from it all, for my own well being. Life has been good ever since and I’m proud of myself for staying strong! 😁
I'm doing that too. It's not easy, I feel lonely sometimes, but also much lighter and less anxious. Navigating those relationships felt like walking across a floor filled with broken glass, not egg shells, glass. I'm still treating the cuts and the only way to do it is by not being anywhere near it. Good luck to you :)
Absolutely matched her yelling. When she wouldnt stop cursing at me, I'd curse back. I've said some mean things too, that cut deep and based on her mental health. I do feel shitty. But I know that isnt my normal personality.
On a serious note, I have been a shadow of myself, putting my needs on the backburner for 20 + years. And was treated very badly, and today, I'm ashamed of letting this abuse go on for so long. I started to inform myself through online channels, such as yours, and I finally understood what I was going through, so for the last 16 years, I have been protecting myself . I never try to be on his good side by adhering to his expectations, I never try to break his never ending silent treatments, I never engage, don't personnalize, don't take the bait, and I now see plain as day, all the cycles. I now listen to my interests, am independant from him, though we are married and live with him, I do not feel like I' m in the wrong by protecting myself and cutting off all supply for him.
You are absolutely not in the wrong. I'm just sad you can't be completely free of him. However, knowledge is power and will help protect you from accidentally getting involved with others like him, like friends or others.
This video had really shaken me. I didn't do any of the things you talk about. I didn't fight back or stand up for myself. I abandoned myself. I sort of knew that but all of a sudden I understand everything.
Every action has a reaction and narcissists always bring out the worse in everyone. She was the problem and had the nerve to sound concerned about me having a heart attack🤦♂️, when she's also the solution.
Talk about a person taking us to our limit!! I also have a heart condition dealing with these trolls! At the time to get out of the problem would had landed me in prison! I didn’t have the ability or the knowledge of exactly what a narcissist is!! Or ARE! They can push another human being to their absolute limit. I lost my mind too btw.. I had three attackers! ❤
I’m experiencing this exact thing right now! The narc in my life always refers back to an incident in which I did the same thing he has done to make his case. And I’ve always felt so horrible about that moment in my life. 😢
I treated him with digust like he has me for years. He tried saying he went off on me on Christmas because I triggered him. I just yelled “oh shut up you just always want to be a victim!” He said “see now you’re telling me shut up!” --He has laughed at me, told me “I don’t care!” Has called me a narcissist for crying when he’s going off on me. It felt good but that’s not who I am. I’m leaving now and never looking back. 15 years of emotional abuse is DONE
I know the world is not divided into two groups-good people who occasionally do bad things and bad people who occasionally do good things but it feels that way when sorting through the rubble of narcissistic abuse. Like so much of your content, this brings much needed light into a once dark space
I was trying to compensate for my own feelings of being out of control of myself. I felt like I lost myself doing so. I really only felt balance come back when I was out of it. Once that feeling of worrying about when the next silent treatment would come, or what I might say could trigger her to do one, or something I did. Once all those perceived dangers left my psyche, was I slowly able to dig myself out of the hole I found myself in.
So Brilliant. "Listen, I'm not here to get into the philosophical elements of lying. If you have been through one of these relationships, you know what this is about. A philosopher would say it is still a lie. A trauma-informed therapist would probably frame it in a larger context."
I needed that today. Thank you! The synchronicity is unreal. I was driving myself crazy the last couple of weeks thinking all kinds of bad stuff about myself. Gotta remind myself often though that I have been dealt a whole lot of crazy on my plate! Being in therapie really is tough but at least I have some help at the moment.
I've addressed much of the points,reactions, and personal perspectives that you outline. I'm well clear by many years of my main narcissist relationships. I'm getting older. So I simply don't have the same drives as I did while young. I feel like I'm cleaning up much that was put in front of me in this life to learn. The path forward isn't clear other than wrapping this life up. Narcissism is, and was part of difficult challenge to a next step in consciousness. I've had glimpses of the higher state of being. But haven't so far been able to stabilize. The high low experience is a roller coaster that I'm tired of.
I set myself free when my trust was undercut. I saw that trying to address my concerns resulted in my personal safety being threatened. And they ****all**** showed me they just don't care. I never liked the unfairness. I've learned it's up to me about what I choose to do next.
I feel like I did a lot of my behaviors for my safety and to protect myself. The one or two times I lost my temper and screamed/raged I think was bc he pushed an issue despite me not wanting to engage any longer.
I try to keep my conscience clear. But any interaction with a toxic person can be fraught with a sense of shock at the other’s entitlement, victimhood, untruths and seeming lack of awareness. Having to decide what or what not to do or say in the moment can become an overplayed mental rerun for the one receiving the abuse. Exhaustion may settle in, which may, in turn, press the one enduring the abuse to blow out or to cede too much to the narcissist.
Yes. There is absolutely no response that makes me feel good about myself. If I fight back, I feel bad. If I fight back with the amount of anger I have, I hate who I become. If I don't respond with being clear and direct, I feel weak. I can't just leave, I'm a prisoner. There's no reasonable discussion or dialogue-- there's no chance of voicing my feelings with a reasonable response. EVERYTHING is a TRIGGER.
Knowledge is power. Get all the info about narcs you can, try to figure out exactly what the payoff is for him in each instance where he is triggering you, so you know how to respond. Don't share your inner truth. He will use it as a weapon. What's recommended is to gray-rock in a trapped situation -- be as uninteresting and unemotional as possible.
@@margomcguire7167 Thank you! That sounds reasonable. Easier said than done. I'm very direct, stubborn and NOT good at passive aggression. lol. I'm like the worst person for a narc to prey on. And, yet, here I am.
Yes I became a liar in my abusive marriage… just to be myself. Do what I want to do . He would belittle me criticise me rage at me for anything I did or said. Now out I am so afraid of men even healthy relationships I notice I have to lie to feel safe. I hate the feeling .
I just kept giving more. And I bought myself a lot of stuff I couldn’t afford. I lied to everyone he was nice. I lost sight of my mental health. I drove myself crazy. I allowed so much to happen and I did nothing to stop it. I napped a ton to avoid being present
After awakening , when you do n0t feel safe and its a survival situation , you listen to your gut and as far as the other person is concerned all bets are off
I was scapegoated by a violent overt narcissist father and a toxic family and I became very reactive. As a child I had screaming emotional arguments with family members and then later as an adult I would feel very guilty about my actions. After a lot of time, rumination and self work I have slowly realized that my dad was a huge overt narc, that my mom had many emotional issues and that my brother was himself a covert narc and that they all created a very hostile family environment for me as the family scapegoat. My guilt about acting out as child evaporated when I finally realized that my toxic family's actions had been very harmful to my emotional development and that I had simply been acting out against abuse, as any child would naturally do. 🌻🌻🌻
I beg and sob. Only gets me more abuse and “It’s your fault you’re upset”, “You caused this”. So I plead and give up my boundaries and say I’ll change and go along with what he wants, discarding my own wants. Not proud of that.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I know that having experienced depersonalization and sabotage in narcissistic relationships is the worst. Romantically attempting to get to know a person authentically and feel safe with the person, while being ghosted right away is the worst feeling, particularly when you are being friendly, respectful and trying to establish trust in reciprocity as mature adults are supposed to. I appreciate you for this is healing me from the trauma that these experiences cause.
As empaths, of course we're gonna feel bad about what we may have done to survive or get the strength to get out! That only highlights the huge IMBALANCE of the relationship. If a dog that's constantly abused ends up attacking his abuser, no one gets surprised. Only the abuser puts him down... Peace, strength and growth to all. ❤️
I was literally just talking to my therapist about this tonight. I have to tell other survivors… being away from a narcissist elucidates a lot; being with a non-narcissistic partner makes you want to be as good of a person as you can be.
I've felt guilty for years about how I treated someone in a former friend group because of how my narc (at the time) husband felt about her. I knew disagreeing would result in days of guilting, gaslighting, silent treatment, hours long lectures on loyalty, etc. I unconsciously became the kind of person I despise to protect myself from him. I regret it still 15 years later & have no way to make amends. I feel like I was a bad person while I was with that man.
I enjoyed being loyal to my marriage vows for many years even in the face of serious ongoing abuse but eventually realized there was nothing I could do to fix the problem - "Going Along to Get Along" didn't work. I get no satisfaction from doing anything mean, it's not in my nature, but I've saved my sanity by developing good friendships with people at work and even with strangers. So, if this is a way of sticking it to the narc, I can live with it.
Right, I can't win. Accepting that is a freeing win. But, what was I trying to win? Change! From last week's video I also learned I was still leaning on hope that he might change into a decent human with humanity. At the core of this hope was the lingering belief that he just didn't know any better. All he needed was some knowledge about how to communicate, treat others and act civil. The childhood lessons my Mom taught me. I didn't understand why that for decades my empathy seemed to be shrinking. I wondered what was happening to me. Was the vision I had of myself as a good and empathetic person fake? Might I also be a narcissist? My current healing is taking notes about the past me, remembering who I was and validating that is the true me and keep reclaiming me.
Since, this is a part of a "process," that has employment significance, I will admit that I spoke too long and too frequently with a married male co-worker. He had invited me to a family gathering, but I said no when he revealed that he was married. It was a very stressful job situation for me and it was hard figuring out my next career move. In any case, it was inappropriate. I had already broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years. I still talked with this ex, but he was not as interested in friendship. I did nothing physical with my coworker. I still feel like this process is warped and I still stand by my criticism of the employer. We are in a new world. I don't care so much that this is seen as a valid screening tool. This does not make me fearful of my career direction. I will add that when I told a long-time female friend about the invite to the family gathering, she told me that I should not have assumed that he was interested in me when he invited me. She did not agree with me that he acted single before his invitation. My gut said something different. It does count as an emotional affair, and we mostly talked about our experiences in the lab.. On the job, sometimes we talked about my past relationships as well and he kept trying to get me to slip up and reveal my age. He also indicated that he had girlfriends on the side in the past. He said other things that made me unsure if he had an open relationship, but I was not interested in dating him either way.
I gossiped with my mother, I also put myself down. I regret it every single day. The guilt and shame I feel is very hard to overcome. It's holding me back from healing. I got attention and love from her that way. She loved dirt, spreading it and hearing about it, especially MY dirt. For over 50 years I didn't see it. I thought what was said was between us because she said it was, I didn't gossip about her to anyone, I shared my EVERYTHING with her - good and bad. She used it to destroy my relationships with my family and my mental health. I am now completely isolated from my siblings, their spouses and children because of her actions. They no longer speak to her either. My dad was useless too. We are all "dead" to him. She also told me I was the cause of it all. That was when I finally saw what was happening to me. I'm digging out of a pretty deep hole. It's slow going, but this helps. Thanks Dr Ramani
I’ll be honest and it’s not because I blame psychotherapist advice. But, if you are empathetic, by default, there’s nothing you do, that you’re going to feel 100% good about, despite it being the best, most appropriate advice. When I sift through my actions and reactions, everything I did was “wrong”. It feels like even going no contact, is much the same as running into a fist. And I “think” I’m not only fully aware of my own actions AND understanding of the narcissists reactions, in terms of how most people’s enabling ideals are, which is, “OF COURSE you should’ve never left. OF COURSE you shouldn’t inherit anything. OF COURSE you should be being abused, by your mother before she passed and now your sibling. What’s WRONG with YOU, that you cannot accept that!?” But, I’m also aware of what that person does not understand, that contributes heavily to their rage - but that explaining it would make no difference, with someone who has an underlying agenda and disorder anyway. The ONLY thing that people have more consistently said, that I “should’ve” done, was to walk away from my share of the estate and let my nut job of a former sibling inherit everything, especially as it is the only thing that would’ve ever “satisfied” that beast. However, knowing what I know about my own future and economics and learning what I have about the general, global future, that’s probably a more important battle, I felt I had to protect myself from bigger issues . I DO know I could be wrong, as I might get maimed or murdered, because of my decision. That’s the risk I’ve taken, over growing old, alone, destitute and homeless. Probably, as many have found out, in dealing with these emotionally-retarded people, there are often no good answers or at least one that fits all.
kind of scary, im sort of in this situation, like what you are describing. do you feel comfortable sharing any more about it? my mother hasnt passed away yet. i feel so tied, having to be completely available to her and with no life of my own. stuck so hard
I had this epiphany today. I was the deposit of all my family's insecurities and weaknesses. Consequently I developed this "third eye" which constantly judged me. I remember when I was doing my postdoc. I was in on a weekend and the instrument I was working on was giving me problems. A senior scientist happened to stop by. He helped me fix the problem. The problem was not the result of anything I had done. When we solved the problem he asked why I had gotten so upset. I had no answer then but I do now. I saw everything as my fault with that "third eye" forever judging me as a failure.
Dr R…this was my internal conversation last night. When I think back to the actions more than the words-I realized that this was a scary person. Nobody was safe.
It’s like with an antagonistic relational abuser they’re trying to catch you with your guard down and then use reaction abuse to confuse you. Setting the stage and encouraging impulsive behavior by creating an illusion of scarce of time.
It is tricky to know when you can reach out. I wanted to study a specific subject at Texas A&M but was turned off when it included experimenting. That felt non-negotiable. I think I have to believe in goodness. I don't know why. True altruism is not data gathering. When I hear therapists try to set up a client to feel confident (recent reveal on another channrl) that feels wrong. When someone comes to another for help or just simple acknowledgment that was their experience is is not okay, they are most vulnerable and may never reach out again. Then laughably they get criticized for staying. It's so tricky, scary, icky depending on how you feel it but it is breaking out beyond the confines that person has been chained in. The friends I have are also guarded. I think what makes us stronger is the experiences and going light with each other, giving space.
That self recrimination feedback loop is pretty brutal, I'm very much an empath but I often find myself questioning if maybe I wasn't the problem now that I've established a fairly stable perfunctory and indifferent relationship with the co-dep parent involved. They has some masters degree psych courses and weaponized them quite well through my teens and twenties, in my 30s I went to some therapy which really helped me to identify exactly what was toxic in the relationship and I ofc tried to use that to "win" the decades long war of words and thoughts and reality, it took until my 40s to understand that mistake and create the less toxic but also "lesser" relationship we now have.
I experienced a heck of a lot of violence during my time married to a malignant Narrcissist I blamed myself & rationalised his behaviour for a while, i also went through some insane behaviour of reacting . I didnt know it had a name called narrsistic abuse If i had all the knowledge back then that i have now i would have seen what the love bombing was about & not have stayed trauma bonded for so many years Im years out of it & a couple of years with no contract . Im a much stronger & confident woman now compared to the shell of a woman i once was Thanks for educating me Dr.Ramini i am a grateful member of this community.
Shoutout to all those on the autistic spectrum who got entwined with a narcissist. Our sense of justice after we realise we were used, our propensity to believe what they say and take them at face value, our empathy, our sense of fairness were all exploited to the max. The processing after they’ve discarded us, is, for someone with ASD very hard. It’s not something that’s spoken about much. I’ve heard that if it’s hard to get over, then we might be narcissistic ourselves, but those with ASD find these discards both confusing and deeply painful and we need to deal with our deep sense of justice which will never be calmed as the narcissist isn’t interested in closure or taking accountability at any level.
He deserved the brunt of my anger and frustration. I am glad I fought back and didn’t take it lying down. But, I am not glad I let it get there. I wish I’d had the courage to choose myself before… but the fact he is scared of me? Good.
@@suzeystapleton7797 Isn't this channel mainly for survivors of narcissistic abuse? 🤷♂️ Although, the comment section lately looks like it's split between survivors and perpetrators to me 😉
@@alltheliliesbloomed Was he abusive? Absolutely. Was I abusive back? No doubt (some professionals call it reactive abuse). To call him (possessive) MY abuser, insinuates something that I don’t agree with. I think you should be careful distance diagnosing strangers on the internet with ‘narcissism’. I am sorry that the little snapshot of my own experience I placed in the comments section, doesn’t fit into your narrative of what abuse looks like.
@suzeystapleton7797 I never said you were and the word 'narcissistic' isn't a diagnosis anyway but rather a descriptive term. I wish you well in your recovery though and have a good day
I am not proud of drinking with the narcissist - not seeking help for alcoholism until the relationship was near ending. It kept me complacent for 7 years.
I called them spoiled. I don’t regret that. They were. I was completely rejected in every way and all I did was fall in love. Not one single person said a word or stood up for a person who did nothing wrong. It’s disgusting and I don’t have to accept that treatment from anyone. Call me what you want but I tried and I was rebuffed in every way a human can be. I’m fine with being the villain because people will always be influenced by their subconscious belief that their own version is the only valid iteration of a story. I’m too tired to fight. I need peace.
'People pleasing' at the expense of prioritzing my needs for them to 'avoid' their negativity. My healthier response is communicate preemptive expectation of my limit/boundary on how I spend my time and following through in real time. When I need to leave , I leave.
Question; is it common for narcissists to constantly whisper in your ear bad things about everyone else you try to form a connection with? I’m just realizing my best friend is probably a narcissist and she has a reason to dislike and disapprove of anyone I try to date, befriend, or hangout with. Inevitably I feel like I have to stop talking to those people in order to not lose my friendship with her…
Very common. It's a deliberate tactic to isolate you from all the sane voices in your life. What she is offering you is not friendship. She wants you to become a minion in her crazy self-entitled universe.
Somehow the list that Doctor Ramani told sounds good. It is human to react, it shows that the person is actually alive and doesn't just take whatever kind of shit that the other person is burying them with. The best thing to do when possible is to exit the relationship for good. We need to care for ourselves, especially when other people are busy not caring and don't give a shit for how we are doing when they're "allowed" to treat us however they like.
I basically stonewalled the last narcissists in my life. It was more of grey rocking them (it was a couple, family of my partner that we allowed to live in our home while they found a house). It got so bad... I could not be in the same room as them! My entire body felt everything and all I could do was squeek out a "Hello" or the most minimal respnse to them if they asked a question. They were narcissists and so they took over the house and I felt I could not speak up because my partner was so accomodating to them until I knocked some sense into him and explained narcissistic behavior. I am angry at my partner for allowing his family to take over our house, but they were so aggressive that I don't think he had a choice. I still look back at that time and feel shame for how I acted. I wish I would have spoken up, let them know I was not okay with their behavior! But I was so disregulated, all I could do was hide and find safety wherever I could...
I want to add that I felt I betrayed myself for not speaking up. I still have that thought every now and then, but now, I think my body was simply protecting me. We later found out pretty fowl things about my partner's family member and I think my childhood experiences with narcissistic parents gave me good intuition and made it to where I cannot tolerate toxic and abusive behavior. And now I see that as a gift.
I had a quick deranged memory! I was reacting absolutely!! I was beyond mad. I should had taken a hike right out of the relationship then and there. But hung around for three years anyway! Well anyone who lies to me isn’t going to always get the truth from me either! Idk!!
It's normal to get the feeling to reflect the way a narcissist treats you, don't blame yourself, that on itself does not make you a bad person. Acting upon it when frustration is high is also very normal, again don't blame yourself and again that on itself does not make you a bad person. Is it a logical choice? Yea, sure is. But is it the right choice? And to that I'd say; no, most likely not. Even if logical to show someone the effects of their actions, these people don't tend to learn and you will not feel good about yourself by reflecting those behaviors, even if it feels like a win at the time and you'll feel proud for standing up for yourself. It feels wrong to put yourself in that mindset of spite/revenge and manipulation. (At least I hope, else check yourself 😜) But yea... That said, you also don't feel good about yourself if you just let someone walk all over you. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's a big part of the reason why you can't win, no matter what, you'll forsake yourself one way or the other. That's why it's best to just leave and stop engaging, even though that is probably also one of the hardest things to do. Don't become them, don't let them make you become less you.
Oh my god, this is where I've been stuck for months now. Just feeling like complete crap about who I was and not wanting to justify my behavior and not sure what to do with that. Rumination ad nauseum.
Here's a question....I really didn't understand the 28 yrs with my narc professor who "neatly developed" entitlement into sociopathy. As in drive without a licence type after failing his test 3x for decades.....plus all the other goodies in the bag of Entitlement including real "boundary-less" porn use- secretly. You get the idea. When it all came apart-discard phase- it felt like being on the cover of a tattler mag- I married an axe murder sort of unreal. Does this type of serious exposure "warp" ones filter? I recently had a careless exchange from a "superior". And, instead of saying, tra la ever-what! My bad. It struck me to my core integrity. And after being surprised and confused, I came out angry. I suppose the question or maybe a video.....does serious narc abuse seriously mess you up and ruin your filters?
Your filters definitely get messed up. It could take years of healing, whatever form that can take for you, to get your head on straight. At least you know what kind of people to beware of, but keep in mind they keep the mask on at first, sometimes even for years...
Some family (specifically a couple of my brother in law's have had to lie to their narcissistic wives just to visit family. One wife has gone as far as to say "you have no business being there" (talking about my brother in law visiting his own mother. Years ago out of the blue this wife said she was "done with us" without explaining what was wrong. Then she wouldn't "allow" her husband to visit family anymore either.
I was at that reactive abuse point when i exploded after post separation abuse. My fight style and coping mechanism when exasperated s is sarcasm and moral ridicule. I know. Not cute. Maybe some projective identiftion in there. It takes me a lot to get angry, but when I do, I say things that I regret later if pushed into the proverbial corner no one else sees. One of those things at my worst was when I told my narcissistic ex and his family that they just live in an ACE SCORE FACTORY. 🤦♀️ that ended up being an exhibit used against me in our divorce. I was entirely pathologized for years after that. Still am
Hadn't realized the ACE score existed, so thanks. That actually sounds like a perfect retort to such unhealthy people. Surprising they understood what it meant.
Well let's just say that that comment was modest as compared to when I really lost my mind. I didn't want to share many others bc I was so angry and betrayed that i became someone who I'm not. I really am not proud of them. Let's just say that my actions and comments and entrapment were analogous in the spirit of my state of mind back then. I'll also say that everything he did during our divorce and kidnapping of my kids via coercive control and legal abuse is illegal now (In Canada coercive control and legal abuse are entirely illegal) and so it would never happen again. Looking back it was awful. When you're in that space and have no options except and only barriers and obstacles to just be able to be heard in court without a lawyer was beyond unfair and abusive. Thank you for pointing that out. We've been there. The only thing I can say is that s*** can never be done to me twice. That's how normal people grow they don't make the same mistakes all the time
It's comical how they recognize that it's really bad behavior when it's done to them (narcissists) but they don't see anything wrong, doing worse things to you and others.
Yeah, they guy I dated bragged about stealing money from one his former employers but when, after months of gaslighting (he basically got back together with his 'ex' behind my back and kept denying it even after they got into couples therapy together!!), he once forgot to log out off Facebook on my computer and I checked his messages to stop feeling like I'm losing my mind.... basically all hell broke loose... And ofc he ignored all the evidence of his multiple blatant lies because of the fact that the way I found out was 'unethical' lmao
@@alltheliliesbloomed Yes, the bragging about getting away with something shows a superior and entitled attitude. There is also a screaming double standard in that he is holding you to the standards you would be in court (fruit of the poisoned tree) regarding how you obtained your 'evidence'.
@@lt827 And forgetting to log out of his Facebook account is his own action (although I would never take advantage of that in any other context or situation); it's not like I hired a private detective to spy on him 😉 And after I tried to go 'no contact' with him, I found out spyware on my computer & multiple fake accounts started harrassing me through social media..
And they still do, maybe to a slightly lesser extent, to this very day even though it's been more than a year at this point (+ I had to pay a lot of money to get rid of the spyware, sold my computer and changed all the passwords + enabled two-step verification everywhere & and did a factory reset on my phone as well).. What an ugly & demented world we live in. I wanted to report it to the police and they told me that if the computer guy wrote a note on paper that he found spyware on my device, it would be enough to start a case but unfortunately, when I contacted the guy, he told me he's no longer working 'due to health issues' as soon as he heard the word 'police' and therefore he cannot help me...
I am still considering reporting the whole thing though (if the police refuses to help, I can always appeal their decision but it's a lot of additional paper work, additional stress and lost time + I was kind of hoping that the guy would get tired of making my life miserable by now but life is full of suprises it apparently...)
Just ask yourself: "is this who I am?", "Is this who I was before?", "did I behave like this in my past relationships?"
Most likely the answer is "no".
I didn't understand gaslighting and narcissism and was so frustrated I would "lose it" but I always wanted to "fix" the relationship. That wasn't her plan.
I've blown so many gaskets by yelling and screaming at my narcassistic abusive husband and horrible mother. It will sound dramatic saying this...its pretty amazing I didn't have an aneurysm or heaŕt attack. All while they'd sit so calm and coy. Looking at me like I was the freakazoid!
When you realize they wanted you to be anxious and to undermine any sense of equanimity and security, things start to click into place. It sucks.
@@JAYNEYOUNG-z1o
Thank you for your comment! It is SPOT ON! You just explained the person I want to leave.
@@NJones-lb1lnMake a plan and get out. As fast as you can!
You getting upset is the result they need. I'd typically get their "I know you get upset" maneuver to put me on the defensive. I finally learned to stay calm and carry on.
Complete and utter frustration was usually why I'd yell. To no avail, obviously.
We did and do what we had to to survive. Not wanted to, HAD to. When you are pushed down so far you only have limited choices -lay there and die that way, or come up mentally swinging, lying, and plotting how to escape.
So true
As an Empath, I absolutely knew some of the things I did when I was in that narcissistic relationship was sooooooo unhealthy and unsettling to my insides… that it was a huge red flag to say “you have to get out - just leave”.
It all stemmed from what I suspected he was doing behind my back… and I was right in the end. My gut told me something was off.
…and I did. I left. Never looking back. Never having to worry about any of that any longer.
I took care of Me. I was true to Me. ❤
Since, this is a part of a "process," that has employment significance, I will admit that I spoke too long and too frequently with a married male co-worker. He had invited me to a family gathering, but I said no when he revealed that he was married. It was a very stressful job situation for me and it was hard figuring out my next career move. In any case, it was inappropriate. I had already broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years. I still talked with this ex, but he was not as interested in friendship. I did nothing physical with my coworker.
I still feel like this process is warped and I still stand by my criticism of the employer. We are in a new world. I don't care so much that this is seen as a valid screening tool. This does not make me fearful of my career direction. I will add that when I told a long-time female friend about the invite to the family gathering, she told me that I should not have assumed that he was interested in me when he invited me. She did not agree with me that he acted single before his invitation. My gut said something different. It does count as an emotional affair, and we mostly talked about our experiences in the lab.. On the job, sometimes we talked about my past relationships as well and he kept trying to get me to slip up and reveal my age. He also indicated that he had girlfriends on the side in the past. He said other things that made me unsure if he had an open relationship, but I was not interested in dating him either way.
@@kathryncothern3433
Your awesome and have alot of courage and strength. I’m praying God will give me more courage and strength.your amazing. 👍
I can’t tell you how helpful this is! When the narcissist(s) are family members you feel so hurt, angry, and confused! Thank you Dr Ramani for understanding and putting a voice to our feelings! Your videos are so helpful!
I did things in my narcisstic relationship I never thought I'd do. It wasn't me, I came to really dislike that version of myself. Thank goodness I finally recognized what I was doing and came back to my normal self. I did go no contact with the two narcissists in my life that brought out the worst in me.
Thank you for this Dr. Ramini. ❤
I resonate! I was so lost in it I could barely recognize myself. I’m so much lighter n happier now and my family and friends comment on it
Thank you Dr Ramani for all that you do!!❤
So much self-doubt being ingrained into me from narcissists always telling me that I’m wrong and making me feel like I’m worthless. For a long time I was unemployed because I had so many toxic coworkers and bosses constantly telling me that I’m not doing the work correctly, so for many years I was afraid to work thinking I’m not good enough.
During the sociopath relationship I was a mess!! I couldn’t even hold a conversations with an adult. I would walk the children and assume everyone driving by thinking bad things about me. Standing at traffic lights my mouth would be quivering from the anxiety so no. I never partook in their sneaky evil behaviour.
But after I broke up with him, in prayer I studied every self help book their was on confidence self esteem, neuroscience, narcissistic abuse and clawed myself out of anxiety without doctors or medication. It was hard!
But I developed hyper independence, “strong single women” 🙄 lonewolf self identity and isolated myself never allowed anyone into my life.
I was still scapegoated at work too, people taking credit for my work, lying about me I felt like covert narcs were everywhere.
But God was still there.
My whole life narc abuse has been part of my journey but I’m grateful that God has utilised it all to give me great compassion.
I serve the community now, in a food ministry, making a meaningful impact on the lives of many people I can relate too with sincerity.
God had turned my pain and the plans meant for evil, into character traits He can use for good. 🥳✨🙏
That really helps Dr Ramani. I have always had this belief that if I was a mature and stable person, I would never get angry or upset or "bubble over", because I would have inner confidence and good self-esteem as described in all the self-help books I've read etc. So when I do crumble and behave in ways I don't want to and that go against my values of how I want to treat people and how I'd like them to treat me, then I see myself as broken and that I am the cause of the troubles. But it's true, this only happens with the toxic relationships and not with my other relationships, so I should be more compassionate to myself and stop expecting to be perfect....
I have felt this same exact way as you! Let's remember to be kind and patient with ourselves. We give that out so freely to so many others but crazy how we don't give it to ourselves, sometimes I feel guilty for giving it to myself.....but not any longer as I navigate this healing journey.
I have felt the same too. On top of it, I felt in moments when I was really angry or unstable with the narcissists I was angry and unfair towards other normal people around me. And I hated it, I hated becoming a crazy person who behave badly for no reason and make upset other normal people around.
I have felt the same too. I have also said most of the things Dr.Ramani pointed out. I am also feeling terribly guilty when I self-reflected, but it is hampering my healing process. Suddenly, this video pops up on RUclips. Thank you God for showing me the path and thanks Dr. Ramani !!!
I tried very hard to remain calm and not scream back at him. Then one day after 25 years together I lost my composure and screamed right back in his face. Well several months later I was able to walk again without pain and I got a tattoo to cover the scars from him slamming me into a wall. No regrets though because I have 1.5 yrs of no contact under my belt and I live a peaceful, yet isolated, existence.
Omg. I’m glad you’re away from him.
So sorry you had to go through this. Your story high-lights how hard it is to understand Narcs and what they are capable of. Many survivors are afraid to speak up or leave, and rightfully so. I hope your future will be less isolated and you find some trustworthy decent people to be friends with.
Fighting BACK against abuse is NOT "also abuse."
People who tell you that it is, are gaslighting you. This includes the Narcissist, so-called "well meaning" others... AND yes, even yourself.
Yes, there are reasons the fight response is the right response.
Wow. I've been told by a friend probably over 10 years ago something similar. But put in the frame of "abuse" (abusive is how I've come to think of and even describe myself to others), I really needed to hear that. Holy moly. Thank you.😢
@@CherylWithASea The only time the fight response is accepted is in life and death, and then sometimes not.
If you can get out, don't stay in an abusive situation. Follow your gut.
I said I hated him,I wish I never met him and I smashed a gift he gave me . He was going out to cheat but I still feel guilt for losing it like that. I'm a gentle and empathic person and believe it or not,I've never wished him harm or tried to hurt him on purpose.
They deliberately bring out the worst in their victims so they can feel superior. He probably loved your behavior and any protest he made was performative and another excuse to criticize you.
Me too, I’ve done the same., then very sad I behaved like that, because they throw it back in your face…later
I’m true to myself and I don’t need his approval or validation. I validate myself and so do those who truly love me.
Reading Doc Ramani's book, and this woman is as sharp as a tack-she leaves no stone unturned, no nuance untouched. Her acute ability to see what others miss comes, sadly, perhaps from her own suffering. This is a person with firsthand experience. Had she not gone through what she attests to in this video-probably countless forms of it in her life-she wouldn’t be able to help countless people in this particular manner. It feels almost eerily like a sacrifice by divine appointment.
Things I feel are in my head, or so twisty-turny and difficult to explain when you've been twisted into a pretzel by those bastards-Ramani just straightens it all out. And in the process, she helps gently straighten you out. I’ve got an unwanted experiential PhD in narcissism, and though I’m otherwise articulate, I cannot find words to describe my suffering. Yet, there it is-every word of it-in her book.
I fell into a hole wondering if I am the narc, constantly falling into self-blame after each incident with a narc. (By the way, how come interactions with these bastards always have to be filed as incidents, collisions, problems, or challenges?!) I felt deeply ashamed as I was the common denominator in all these situations, so naturally, I began to think there is a problem with me and that I even have a personality disorder. Meanwhile, those demonic wankers are riding into the horizon without a hair's breadth of accountability.
My well-meaning therapists just don’t 'get it.' Get countless sessions of therapy for 15 bucks in her book ITS NOT YOU: please buy it for yourself!
My father was a narcissist to the nth degree and it was the only thing in which he excelled. I was the truth teller and scapegoat and felt the need to stick up for mom while my sister would either deny or justify his actions. By the time I was 13 I gave as good as I got and it infuriated him and that’s why I loved every minute of it.
I finally stood up for myself after years of emotional abuse from the narcissistic in law when she verbally assaulted me for no reason at my mother’s house. My family tried to blame me because I stood up to her, but they are enablers. I know the truth so standing strong in my convictions. I have not felt safe with them and don’t like how I became an unhealthy version of myself from all their toxicity. Giving myself lots of grace that I did the best I could in some awful situations and that it’s not all my fault even if I finally yelled back. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
@@costelloandlizzievolk2233 They’re in such a low vibe. And sage doesn’t work!!
I definitely can relate. Nobody knows my narc father in law like I do. Been married 39 years. He was a church leader. Then of all things, I’m the one that catches him in questionable situations with two other women. Being scared to death of him I was afraid to tell my mother in law. It’s uncanny. He’s threatened my life. He hugged a strange woman in front of me at a pro golf tournament. Then said “You didn’t see that”. Then silence. Caught him behind the counter at the local store with a beautiful red head. Nothing. It’s so easy to fall into the trap of doing things that you’re not proud of to deal with them.
I'm here for daily dose of Dr. Ramani 😍😍
My only bad behavior was eventually snapping after enough verbal abuse. It took a marriage counselor educating me on my wife being a narcissist, her treatment of me being abuse, and that it would never stop, to finally get steered down the path towards Dr. Ramani's content, and learning about gray rocking.
This video is very helpful and very insightful. Honestly, I have felt I was worse than the narc between dealing with the narc, dealing with a narc parent, and dating previous narcs. At 50 years ago, I have said I don't like who I am, especially in romantic relationships. All this toxicity being oh so "familiar", I know it the reason I have allowed myself to remain stuck and many time halt my healing journey. I am exhausted and want to know what it is like on the other side of the unknown and finally let go of "the familiar."
I am not boastful, nor proud of my behavior during the narcs discard . My actions and comments came from a place within, to protect my safety, sanity, and emotional security.
I never want to be in a situation or relationship like that again.
Thanks. I own my toxic behavior, but I'm trying to heal and stop settling. I notice that most aren't interested in taking accountability or doing the work (changing). Don't settle. We got this.
Since, this is a part of a "process," that has employment significance, I will admit that I spoke too long and too frequently with a married man at my job. He had invited me to a family gathering, but I said no when he revealed that he was married. It was a very stressful job situation for me and it was hard figuring out my next career move. In any case, it was inappropriate. I had already broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years. I still talked with this ex, but he was not as interested in friendship. I did nothing physical with my coworker. I still feel like this process is warped and I still stand by my criticism of the employer. We are in a new world. I don't care so much that this is seen as a valid screening tool. This does not make me fearful of my career direction. I will add that when I told a long-time female friend about the invite to the family gathering, she told me that I should not have assumed that he was interested in me when he invited me. She did not agree with me that he acted single before his invitation. My gut said something different. It does count as an emotional affair, and we only talked about our experiences in the lab. He also indicated that he had girlfriends on the side in the past. He said other things that made me unsure if he had an open relationship, but I was not interested in dating him either way.
After years of a narcissistic abuse and toxic behavior from my family and people, I finally decided to walk away and get space from it all, for my own well being. Life has been good ever since and I’m proud of myself for staying strong! 😁
I'm doing that too. It's not easy, I feel lonely sometimes, but also much lighter and less anxious. Navigating those relationships felt like walking across a floor filled with broken glass, not egg shells, glass. I'm still treating the cuts and the only way to do it is by not being anywhere near it. Good luck to you :)
Absolutely matched her yelling. When she wouldnt stop cursing at me, I'd curse back. I've said some mean things too, that cut deep and based on her mental health. I do feel shitty. But I know that isnt my normal personality.
I know it sounds terrible, but it funny hearing Dr Ramani did some of those things! 😊 At least she still human like the rest of us.
On a serious note, I have been a shadow of myself, putting my needs on the backburner for 20 + years. And was treated very badly, and today, I'm ashamed of letting this abuse go on for so long. I started to inform myself through online channels, such as yours, and I finally understood what I was going through, so for the last 16 years, I have been protecting myself . I never try to be on his good side by adhering to his expectations, I never try to break his never ending silent treatments, I never engage, don't personnalize, don't take the bait, and I now see plain as day, all the cycles. I now listen to my interests, am independant from him, though we are married and live with him, I do not feel like I' m in the wrong by protecting myself and cutting off all supply for him.
You are absolutely not in the wrong. I'm just sad you can't be completely free of him. However, knowledge is power and will help protect you from accidentally getting involved with others like him, like friends or others.
Thank you Dr Ramini for clarifying the distinction between person and behavior, as THAT relates to what the survivor needs.
This video had really shaken me. I didn't do any of the things you talk about. I didn't fight back or stand up for myself. I abandoned myself. I sort of knew that but all of a sudden I understand everything.
Every action has a reaction and narcissists always bring out the worse in everyone.
She was the problem and had the nerve to sound concerned about me having a heart attack🤦♂️, when she's also the solution.
Yes they did. I took this chance to start my long way healing, it's hard but i believe i eventually find myself back.
Talk about a person taking us to our limit!! I also have a heart condition dealing with these trolls! At the time to get out of the problem would had landed me in prison! I didn’t have the ability or the knowledge of exactly what a narcissist is!! Or ARE! They can push another human being to their absolute limit. I lost my mind too btw.. I had three attackers! ❤
I’m experiencing this exact thing right now! The narc in my life always refers back to an incident in which I did the same thing he has done to make his case. And I’ve always felt so horrible about that moment in my life. 😢
I treated him with digust like he has me for years. He tried saying he went off on me on Christmas because I triggered him. I just yelled “oh shut up you just always want to be a victim!” He said “see now you’re telling me shut up!” --He has laughed at me, told me “I don’t care!” Has called me a narcissist for crying when he’s going off on me. It felt good but that’s not who I am.
I’m leaving now and never looking back. 15 years of emotional abuse is DONE
I know the world is not divided into two groups-good people who occasionally do bad things and bad people who occasionally do good things but it feels that way when sorting through the rubble of narcissistic abuse. Like so much of your content, this brings much needed light into a once dark space
I was trying to compensate for my own feelings of being out of control of myself. I felt like I lost myself doing so. I really only felt balance come back when I was out of it. Once that feeling of worrying about when the next silent treatment would come, or what I might say could trigger her to do one, or something I did. Once all those perceived dangers left my psyche, was I slowly able to dig myself out of the hole I found myself in.
So Brilliant. "Listen, I'm not here to get into the philosophical elements of lying. If you have been through one of these relationships, you know what this is about. A philosopher would say it is still a lie. A trauma-informed therapist would probably frame it in a larger context."
This video was beyond helpful thank you!
I needed that today. Thank you! The synchronicity is unreal. I was driving myself crazy the last couple of weeks thinking all kinds of bad stuff about myself. Gotta remind myself often though that I have been dealt a whole lot of crazy on my plate! Being in therapie really is tough but at least I have some help at the moment.
I've addressed much of the points,reactions, and personal perspectives that you outline. I'm well clear by many years of my main narcissist relationships. I'm getting older. So I simply don't have the same drives as I did while young. I feel like I'm cleaning up much that was put in front of me in this life to learn. The path forward isn't clear other than wrapping this life up. Narcissism is, and was part of difficult challenge to a next step in consciousness. I've had glimpses of the higher state of being. But haven't so far been able to stabilize. The high low experience is a roller coaster that I'm tired of.
I set myself free when my trust was undercut. I saw that trying to address my concerns resulted in my personal safety being threatened. And they ****all**** showed me they just don't care. I never liked the unfairness. I've learned it's up to me about what I choose to do next.
I feel like I did a lot of my behaviors for my safety and to protect myself. The one or two times I lost my temper and screamed/raged I think was bc he pushed an issue despite me not wanting to engage any longer.
💯🙏
💯🙏
I try to keep my conscience clear. But any interaction with a toxic person can be fraught with a sense of shock at the other’s entitlement, victimhood, untruths and seeming lack of awareness. Having to decide what or what not to do or say in the moment can become an overplayed mental rerun for the one receiving the abuse. Exhaustion may settle in, which may, in turn, press the one enduring the abuse to blow out or to cede too much to the narcissist.
Yes. There is absolutely no response that makes me feel good about myself. If I fight back, I feel bad. If I fight back with the amount of anger I have, I hate who I become. If I don't respond with being clear and direct, I feel weak. I can't just leave, I'm a prisoner. There's no reasonable discussion or dialogue-- there's no chance of voicing my feelings with a reasonable response. EVERYTHING is a TRIGGER.
Knowledge is power. Get all the info about narcs you can, try to figure out exactly what the payoff is for him in each instance where he is triggering you, so you know how to respond. Don't share your inner truth. He will use it as a weapon. What's recommended is to gray-rock in a trapped situation -- be as uninteresting and unemotional as possible.
@@margomcguire7167 Thank you! That sounds reasonable. Easier said than done. I'm very direct, stubborn and NOT good at passive aggression. lol. I'm like the worst person for a narc to prey on. And, yet, here I am.
Yes I became a liar in my abusive marriage… just to be myself. Do what I want to do . He would belittle me criticise me rage at me for anything I did or said. Now out I am so afraid of men even healthy relationships I notice I have to lie to feel safe. I hate the feeling .
Dr Ramani thank you for all the effort and love you put in your channel, i am watching you from a small island of Europe.
Thanks again Dr. Ramani, for your words of kindness and support and love. Power Persevering in Prayers Psalms 1-150🌹🌺🤲👑🇯🇲🙏
I just kept giving more. And I bought myself a lot of stuff I couldn’t afford. I lied to everyone he was nice. I lost sight of my mental health. I drove myself crazy. I allowed so much to happen and I did nothing to stop it. I napped a ton to avoid being present
This was soul-tisfying. Thank you for your work 🌻
I lied to my parents all the time. Why? To avoid emotional abuse . I feel zero guilt.
After awakening , when you do n0t feel safe and its a survival situation , you listen to your gut and as far as the other person is concerned all bets are off
Yes!!!
I was scapegoated by a violent overt narcissist father and a toxic family and I became very reactive. As a child I had screaming emotional arguments with family members and then later as an adult I would feel very guilty about my actions. After a lot of time, rumination and self work I have slowly realized that my dad was a huge overt narc, that my mom had many emotional issues and that my brother was himself a covert narc and that they all created a very hostile family environment for me as the family scapegoat. My guilt about acting out as child evaporated when I finally realized that my toxic family's actions had been very harmful to my emotional development and that I had simply been acting out against abuse, as any child would naturally do. 🌻🌻🌻
Grateful for this perspective,
I beg and sob. Only gets me more abuse and “It’s your fault you’re upset”, “You caused this”. So I plead and give up my boundaries and say I’ll change and go along with what he wants, discarding my own wants. Not proud of that.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I know that having experienced depersonalization and sabotage in narcissistic relationships is the worst. Romantically attempting to get to know a person authentically and feel safe with the person, while being ghosted right away is the worst feeling, particularly when you are being friendly, respectful and trying to establish trust in reciprocity as mature adults are supposed to. I appreciate you for this is healing me from the trauma that these experiences cause.
As empaths, of course we're gonna feel bad about what we may have done to survive or get the strength to get out! That only highlights the huge IMBALANCE of the relationship. If a dog that's constantly abused ends up attacking his abuser, no one gets surprised. Only the abuser puts him down... Peace, strength and growth to all. ❤️
I was literally just talking to my therapist about this tonight.
I have to tell other survivors… being away from a narcissist elucidates a lot; being with a non-narcissistic partner makes you want to be as good of a person as you can be.
I've felt guilty for years about how I treated someone in a former friend group because of how my narc (at the time) husband felt about her. I knew disagreeing would result in days of guilting, gaslighting, silent treatment, hours long lectures on loyalty, etc. I unconsciously became the kind of person I despise to protect myself from him. I regret it still 15 years later & have no way to make amends. I feel like I was a bad person while I was with that man.
I enjoyed being loyal to my marriage vows for many years even in the face of serious ongoing abuse but eventually realized there was nothing I could do to fix the problem - "Going Along to Get Along" didn't work. I get no satisfaction from doing anything mean, it's not in my nature, but I've saved my sanity by developing good friendships with people at work and even with strangers. So, if this is a way of sticking it to the narc, I can live with it.
Right, I can't win. Accepting that is a freeing win. But, what was I trying to win? Change!
From last week's video I also learned I was still leaning on hope that he might change into a decent human with humanity. At the core of this hope was the lingering belief that he just didn't know any better. All he needed was some knowledge about how to communicate, treat others and act civil. The childhood lessons my Mom taught me.
I didn't understand why that for decades my empathy seemed to be shrinking. I wondered what was happening to me. Was the vision I had of myself as a good and empathetic person fake? Might I also be a narcissist?
My current healing is taking notes about the past me, remembering who I was and validating that is the true me and keep reclaiming me.
Since, this is a part of a "process," that has employment significance, I will admit that I spoke too long and too frequently with a married male co-worker. He had invited me to a family gathering, but I said no when he revealed that he was married. It was a very stressful job situation for me and it was hard figuring out my next career move. In any case, it was inappropriate. I had already broken up with my boyfriend of 3 years. I still talked with this ex, but he was not as interested in friendship. I did nothing physical with my coworker.
I still feel like this process is warped and I still stand by my criticism of the employer. We are in a new world. I don't care so much that this is seen as a valid screening tool. This does not make me fearful of my career direction. I will add that when I told a long-time female friend about the invite to the family gathering, she told me that I should not have assumed that he was interested in me when he invited me. She did not agree with me that he acted single before his invitation. My gut said something different. It does count as an emotional affair, and we mostly talked about our experiences in the lab.. On the job, sometimes we talked about my past relationships as well and he kept trying to get me to slip up and reveal my age. He also indicated that he had girlfriends on the side in the past. He said other things that made me unsure if he had an open relationship, but I was not interested in dating him either way.
This is soooooooo helpful ❤
I gossiped with my mother, I also put myself down. I regret it every single day. The guilt and shame I feel is very hard to overcome. It's holding me back from healing. I got attention and love from her that way. She loved dirt, spreading it and hearing about it, especially MY dirt. For over 50 years I didn't see it. I thought what was said was between us because she said it was, I didn't gossip about her to anyone, I shared my EVERYTHING with her - good and bad. She used it to destroy my relationships with my family and my mental health. I am now completely isolated from my siblings, their spouses and children because of her actions. They no longer speak to her either. My dad was useless too. We are all "dead" to him. She also told me I was the cause of it all. That was when I finally saw what was happening to me. I'm digging out of a pretty deep hole. It's slow going, but this helps. Thanks Dr Ramani
I’ll be honest and it’s not because I blame psychotherapist advice. But, if you are empathetic, by default, there’s nothing you do, that you’re going to feel 100% good about, despite it being the best, most appropriate advice.
When I sift through my actions and reactions, everything I did was “wrong”. It feels like even going no contact, is much the same as running into a fist. And I “think” I’m not only fully aware of my own actions AND understanding of the narcissists reactions, in terms of how most people’s enabling ideals are, which is, “OF COURSE you should’ve never left. OF COURSE you shouldn’t inherit anything. OF COURSE you should be being abused, by your mother before she passed and now your sibling. What’s WRONG with YOU, that you cannot accept that!?” But, I’m also aware of what that person does not understand, that contributes heavily to their rage - but that explaining it would make no difference, with someone who has an underlying agenda and disorder anyway.
The ONLY thing that people have more consistently said, that I “should’ve” done, was to walk away from my share of the estate and let my nut job of a former sibling inherit everything, especially as it is the only thing that would’ve ever “satisfied” that beast. However, knowing what I know about my own future and economics and learning what I have about the general, global future, that’s probably a more important battle, I felt I had to protect myself from bigger issues . I DO know I could be wrong, as I might get maimed or murdered, because of my decision. That’s the risk I’ve taken, over growing old, alone, destitute and homeless. Probably, as many have found out, in dealing with these emotionally-retarded people, there are often no good answers or at least one that fits all.
kind of scary, im sort of in this situation, like what you are describing. do you feel comfortable sharing any more about it? my mother hasnt passed away yet. i feel so tied, having to be completely available to her and with no life of my own. stuck so hard
I had this epiphany today. I was the deposit of all my family's insecurities and weaknesses. Consequently I developed this "third eye" which constantly judged me. I remember when I was doing my postdoc. I was in on a weekend and the instrument I was working on was giving me problems. A senior scientist happened to stop by. He helped me fix the problem. The problem was not the result of anything I had done. When we solved the problem he asked why I had gotten so upset. I had no answer then but I do now. I saw everything as my fault with that "third eye" forever judging me as a failure.
I have thought that about rationalizing.
Dr R…this was my internal conversation last night. When I think back to the actions more than the words-I realized that this was a scary person. Nobody was safe.
Knowing they have to rant/rage/vent daily, and knowing the pressures building up, just Fart to kick things off!
Amen, Dr. Ramani!!! ♥
It’s like with an antagonistic relational abuser they’re trying to catch you with your guard down and then use reaction abuse to confuse you. Setting the stage and encouraging impulsive behavior by creating an illusion of scarce of time.
I’m here❣️
It is tricky to know when you can reach out. I wanted to study a specific subject at Texas A&M but was turned off when it included experimenting. That felt non-negotiable.
I think I have to believe in goodness. I don't know why. True altruism is not data gathering. When I hear therapists try to set up a client to feel confident (recent reveal on another channrl) that feels wrong. When someone comes to another for help or just simple acknowledgment that was their experience is is not okay, they are most vulnerable and may never reach out again. Then laughably they get criticized for staying. It's so tricky, scary, icky depending on how you feel it but it is breaking out beyond the confines that person has been chained in.
The friends I have are also guarded. I think what makes us stronger is the experiences and going light with each other, giving space.
That self recrimination feedback loop is pretty brutal, I'm very much an empath but I often find myself questioning if maybe I wasn't the problem now that I've established a fairly stable perfunctory and indifferent relationship with the co-dep parent involved. They has some masters degree psych courses and weaponized them quite well through my teens and twenties, in my 30s I went to some therapy which really helped me to identify exactly what was toxic in the relationship and I ofc tried to use that to "win" the decades long war of words and thoughts and reality, it took until my 40s to understand that mistake and create the less toxic but also "lesser" relationship we now have.
I experienced a heck of a lot of violence during my time married to a malignant Narrcissist
I blamed myself & rationalised his behaviour for a while, i also went through some insane behaviour of reacting . I didnt know it had a name called narrsistic abuse
If i had all the knowledge back then that i have now i would have seen what the love bombing was about & not have stayed trauma bonded for so many years
Im years out of it & a couple of years with no contract .
Im a much stronger & confident woman now compared to the shell of a woman i once was
Thanks for educating me Dr.Ramini i am a grateful member of this community.
Dear Ramani
So difficult when you actually have left but still need to have some kind of relationship due to 'co-parenting' 🤮😔
Shoutout to all those on the autistic spectrum who got entwined with a narcissist. Our sense of justice after we realise we were used, our propensity to believe what they say and take them at face value, our empathy, our sense of fairness were all exploited to the max. The processing after they’ve discarded us, is, for someone with ASD very hard. It’s not something that’s spoken about much. I’ve heard that if it’s hard to get over, then we might be narcissistic ourselves, but those with ASD find these discards both confusing and deeply painful and we need to deal with our deep sense of justice which will never be calmed as the narcissist isn’t interested in closure or taking accountability at any level.
After what he did to me I can’t think of anything I did to him that was bad .
He deserved the brunt of my anger and frustration. I am glad I fought back and didn’t take it lying down. But, I am not glad I let it get there. I wish I’d had the courage to choose myself before… but the fact he is scared of me? Good.
Your abuser is 'scared' of you?...kay
@@alltheliliesbloomed did I call him ‘my abuser’?
@@suzeystapleton7797 Isn't this channel mainly for survivors of narcissistic abuse? 🤷♂️ Although, the comment section lately looks like it's split between survivors and perpetrators to me 😉
@@alltheliliesbloomed Was he abusive? Absolutely. Was I abusive back? No doubt (some professionals call it reactive abuse). To call him (possessive) MY abuser, insinuates something that I don’t agree with. I think you should be careful distance diagnosing strangers on the internet with ‘narcissism’. I am sorry that the little snapshot of my own experience I placed in the comments section, doesn’t fit into your narrative of what abuse looks like.
@suzeystapleton7797 I never said you were and the word 'narcissistic' isn't a diagnosis anyway but rather a descriptive term. I wish you well in your recovery though and have a good day
This is precisely why I continue to question myself whether I'm a narcissist or not.
I am not proud of drinking with the narcissist - not seeking help for alcoholism until the relationship was near ending. It kept me complacent for 7 years.
I called them spoiled. I don’t regret that. They were. I was completely rejected in every way and all I did was fall in love. Not one single person said a word or stood up for a person who did nothing wrong. It’s disgusting and I don’t have to accept that treatment from anyone. Call me what you want but I tried and I was rebuffed in every way a human can be. I’m fine with being the villain because people will always be influenced by their subconscious belief that their own version is the only valid iteration of a story. I’m too tired to fight. I need peace.
'People pleasing' at the expense of prioritzing my needs for them to 'avoid' their negativity. My healthier response is communicate preemptive expectation of my limit/boundary on how I spend my time and following through in real time. When I need to leave , I leave.
Question; is it common for narcissists to constantly whisper in your ear bad things about everyone else you try to form a connection with? I’m just realizing my best friend is probably a narcissist and she has a reason to dislike and disapprove of anyone I try to date, befriend, or hangout with. Inevitably I feel like I have to stop talking to those people in order to not lose my friendship with her…
Very common. It's a deliberate tactic to isolate you from all the sane voices in your life. What she is offering you is not friendship. She wants you to become a minion in her crazy self-entitled universe.
Somehow the list that Doctor Ramani told sounds good. It is human to react, it shows that the person is actually alive and doesn't just take whatever kind of shit that the other person is burying them with. The best thing to do when possible is to exit the relationship for good. We need to care for ourselves, especially when other people are busy not caring and don't give a shit for how we are doing when they're "allowed" to treat us however they like.
I basically stonewalled the last narcissists in my life. It was more of grey rocking them (it was a couple, family of my partner that we allowed to live in our home while they found a house). It got so bad... I could not be in the same room as them! My entire body felt everything and all I could do was squeek out a "Hello" or the most minimal respnse to them if they asked a question. They were narcissists and so they took over the house and I felt I could not speak up because my partner was so accomodating to them until I knocked some sense into him and explained narcissistic behavior. I am angry at my partner for allowing his family to take over our house, but they were so aggressive that I don't think he had a choice. I still look back at that time and feel shame for how I acted. I wish I would have spoken up, let them know I was not okay with their behavior! But I was so disregulated, all I could do was hide and find safety wherever I could...
I want to add that I felt I betrayed myself for not speaking up. I still have that thought every now and then, but now, I think my body was simply protecting me. We later found out pretty fowl things about my partner's family member and I think my childhood experiences with narcissistic parents gave me good intuition and made it to where I cannot tolerate toxic and abusive behavior. And now I see that as a gift.
I had a quick deranged memory! I was reacting absolutely!! I was beyond mad. I should had taken a hike right out of the relationship then and there. But hung around for three years anyway! Well anyone who lies to me isn’t going to always get the truth from me either! Idk!!
And when they would use religiosity against you. You are held to a higher standard even by those who never held to them or those who over-stress them.
After being baited over and over, i would yell. Then I heard, “you ought to hear yourself!” It was a game of gotcha!
My husband used to say I had 2 personalities,The bad Me ,when I was with by my narcissistic mom and my Good Me when I went no contact with her
Present but not perfect. (Me that is)
lol 😆
Gave him the time of day!
It's normal to get the feeling to reflect the way a narcissist treats you, don't blame yourself, that on itself does not make you a bad person.
Acting upon it when frustration is high is also very normal, again don't blame yourself and again that on itself does not make you a bad person.
Is it a logical choice? Yea, sure is. But is it the right choice? And to that I'd say; no, most likely not.
Even if logical to show someone the effects of their actions, these people don't tend to learn and you will not feel good about yourself by reflecting those behaviors, even if it feels like a win at the time and you'll feel proud for standing up for yourself. It feels wrong to put yourself in that mindset of spite/revenge and manipulation. (At least I hope, else check yourself 😜)
But yea... That said, you also don't feel good about yourself if you just let someone walk all over you.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
That's a big part of the reason why you can't win, no matter what, you'll forsake yourself one way or the other.
That's why it's best to just leave and stop engaging, even though that is probably also one of the hardest things to do.
Don't become them, don't let them make you become less you.
Oh my god, this is where I've been stuck for months now. Just feeling like complete crap about who I was and not wanting to justify my behavior and not sure what to do with that. Rumination ad nauseum.
Truth is a privilege that only the truthful are entitled to.
Why? Because I was having a natural reaction to a toxic person or situation for years on end.
"Beware the fury of the patient man" (or woman!)
Man, I just realized that I’ve never been in a healthy relationship. 😢 I can’t think of a single time even as far back as high school…
Thankyou Dr Ramani
Here's a question....I really didn't understand the 28 yrs with my narc professor who "neatly developed" entitlement into sociopathy. As in drive without a licence type after failing his test 3x for decades.....plus all the other goodies in the bag of Entitlement including real "boundary-less" porn use- secretly. You get the idea. When it all came apart-discard phase- it felt like being on the cover of a tattler mag- I married an axe murder sort of unreal. Does this type of serious exposure "warp" ones filter? I recently had a careless exchange from a "superior". And, instead of saying, tra la ever-what! My bad. It struck me to my core integrity. And after being surprised and confused, I came out angry. I suppose the question or maybe a video.....does serious narc abuse seriously mess you up and ruin your filters?
Your filters definitely get messed up. It could take years of healing, whatever form that can take for you, to get your head on straight. At least you know what kind of people to beware of, but keep in mind they keep the mask on at first, sometimes even for years...
Thank you, that was kindly put. Harder still is to determine if a person is a jerk or a professional a-hole.....masks on or off.
Admitted to things I did not do.
Thanks
This is such a great video. Thank you 💐
Some family (specifically a couple of my brother in law's have had to lie to their narcissistic wives just to visit family. One wife has gone as far as to say "you have no business being there" (talking about my brother in law visiting his own mother. Years ago out of the blue this wife said she was "done with us" without explaining what was wrong. Then she wouldn't "allow" her husband to visit family anymore either.
I was at that reactive abuse point when i exploded after post separation abuse. My fight style and coping mechanism when exasperated s is sarcasm and moral ridicule. I know. Not cute. Maybe some projective identiftion in there. It takes me a lot to get angry, but when I do, I say things that I regret later if pushed into the proverbial corner no one else sees. One of those things at my worst was when I told my narcissistic ex and his family that they just live in an ACE SCORE FACTORY. 🤦♀️ that ended up being an exhibit used against me in our divorce. I was entirely pathologized for years after that. Still am
Hadn't realized the ACE score existed, so thanks. That actually sounds like a perfect retort to such unhealthy people. Surprising they understood what it meant.
If that's really your worst, then you're a saint! I probably would've said/done something much worse.
Well let's just say that that comment was modest as compared to when I really lost my mind. I didn't want to share many others bc I was so angry and betrayed that i became someone who I'm not.
I really am not proud of them. Let's just say that my actions and comments and entrapment were analogous in the spirit of my state of mind back then. I'll also say that everything he did during our divorce and kidnapping of my kids via coercive control and legal abuse is illegal now (In Canada coercive control and legal abuse are entirely illegal) and so it would never happen again. Looking back it was awful. When you're in that space and have no options except and only barriers and obstacles to just be able to be heard in court without a lawyer was beyond unfair and abusive. Thank you for pointing that out. We've been there. The only thing I can say is that s*** can never be done to me twice. That's how normal people grow they don't make the same mistakes all the time