THE ULTIMATE GRUDGE | Dwarfs vs Chaos Dwarfs - Total War Warhammer 3
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Grombrindal's goofy face will never fail to make me smile
thats a grudge
sucks that 1vs 1 he loses, The white dwarf looses to robo dwarf.
GOOFY!?
its his default "chop down elf tree" face
>Calling Astragoth a Keebler _elf_
Now you’ve done it
The real grudge match would be the White Dwarf vs the Black Dwarf. That was a thing a long while ago, the Black Dwarf was a Chaos Dwarf sorcerer who'd made himself invincible using a magic cauldron, though the White Dwarf did eventually manage it by destroying said cauldron.
Did he wear the cauldron as a suit of armor lol
I kinda can't imagine Grombrindal failing anything tbh. Although I don't read Warhammer source material, for me he is like the main character who doesn't just die.
@@Nostradevus1 No, his soul was in the cauldron and he was puppeting his body like a necromancer puppets the undead. Because of this, it doesn't matter what you do to his body, he wouldn't die.
@@haesung2148He kinda is at least to the Dwarfs. He’s like the avatar of Sigmar for the empire or the green knight for brettonia… basically a spirit of vengeance that comes and saves the day
Wasn't it an anvil, rather than a cauldron..? I seem to _vaguely_ recall reading the issue of White Dwarf where they actually did the table top battle... that's going back a LOT of years, though!
edit - go away YT... you're drunk.
As long as astragoth is priced appropriately. what a hilariously powerful little guy. Size of a dwarf, speed of horse, armour of demigryph, weapon strength of dragon, and spellcaster
Imho Astragoth is a wee bit broken. He's basically a infantry sized Taurox with more mass than the brass bull (like tf?) and can cast spells.
Astrogoth is definitely getting nerfed, the guy has literally no weaknesses
How about a flight of stairs?
Oh his wheelchair has legs!
Truly a monster with no weaknesses!
personally I prefer to buff weaker stuff to good standards instead of nerfing strong things
Make him large sized and that should do it.
@@-Kidzin that's no ideal because then everything would get more inflated with every update/new unit, in my opinion.
@@-Kidzin that's fine in theory but Astrogoth is just silly, and once the shine wears off I think the content creators are going to admit this as well. You've got an armored, functionally unsnipeable caster that's unaffected by anti-large, is a powerful duelist, and has both the mass and the speed to escape almost anything that could threaten him. LLs who were considered broken in the past, like say Grom the Paunch or Count Noctilus, had maybe three of those things, and thus had a corresponding way to play around them. How do you play around Astrogoth? You either have to blow all of your gold and hero slots to try and outduel him (which probably won't work anyway) or bring a ton of AP ranged and hope you get a chance to gank him.
it seems like Astragoth is way underpriced, he is a great melee fighter, great caster and fast as well. Definitely needs a price increase imo
Yeah its kind of crazy how he can challenge an actual demi-dog in melee and win
He needs a nerf to stats, not a price increase
Grombrindal has very good AP damage and magical attacks to boot, he should be the ideal choice against Astro-Man
And well we see the problem here. Not only is Astragoth insanely powerful in combat, he has REALLY strong mobility as well, so anything that can counter him in a head to head fight he can just run away from.
He has too much of everything, something's gotta give. He's too cheap for how powerful he is, he's too mobile for the fact that he's considered a foot lord by the game and not a large target so dedicated anti-large weapons can get their bonus against him.
@@ktvindicare the power creep is real
@@ktvindicare I agree his OP as it stands. If we are talking about this particular matchup in land battles, snaring him down for Thunderers and Grombrindal should work. He probably needs nerfing, but I would have to play myself to find out
@@nicklindberg90 To be fair, the Chaos Dwarfs OVERALL are in a really good place from the point of view of Power Creep. They aren't NEARLY as bad as High Elves, Vampire Coast or especially Skaven were in WH2 with the kinds of stupid shit they are getting.
It's really just Astragoth having a little too much of everything for his price, Bull Centaurs being underpriced compared to similar units from other factions that perform worse than them, and the fact that Magma Cannons are easily the best Dawi Zharr Siege weapon despite being the cheapest that stand out as noticeable balance complaints.
That's not bad. If CA takes their time on balancing it, tournaments can easily just ban Astragoth and put a limit on the Centaurs until they do.
A price increase for him, and larger speed debuff when slowly turning to stone might help. -10% speed is next to nothing when you have a base of 60. Make it -20% or even -25%(that would still put him at 45 speed).
Astrogoth is Inspector Gadget!!! Who is that old with me!? 🕵🏻♂️
8:45 mechadwarf heals the cannon squad with his hammer. Such a nice mechadwarf.
Im stoked about the chorfs but im real sad they didnt use this opportunity to gives the dwarves some new stuff too.
one of the next few DLCs will probably be a dwarf vs chaos dwarf one.
@@mvpmvp2980 don't count on it. A dlc for a dlc coming out soon is unlikely.
@@mvpmvp2980 Probably no, CA seems to really dislike the dwarves for some reason.
@@bleflar9183 they might give then another cheap FLC character again and update a campaign mechanic or two then done. Dwarfs got an update.
I really hope Dwarfs and Norsca get a DLC at some bloody point, I mean the Skaven in wh2 got so much more content compared to the Dwarfs for example it's just stupid.
skavens deserve it,not the ugly dwarves >:(
To be fair skavens are way more interesting that small dudes, I honestly hope we get another DLC for them in this game, there's so many cool things they could still add with Skavens
@@lflpolp7852 bro you got rat fetish? How in the hell rats are more beautiful than dwarfs lmfao
Fun fact - Skaven still miss their Verminlord unit, and their most famous LL. There will be more Skaven DLC, probably End Times themed
Agreed, dwarfs need more variaty, factions like skaven (and now also chaos dwarfs) already have so many options they don't know what to do with them.
I know I speak for literally everyone here that we're not happy that the real Dwarves lost.
FOR CLAN AND KIN!
CDwarfs seem to be most balanced DLC faction yet, save for 3 massively overtuned units: Astrogoth, Bull Centaurs and Magma Cannon.
Astrogoth: He has more mass (5K) and better melee stats than fucking Taurox. His melee stats and mass needs severe nerfing. I suggest 2K mass (Same as Grimgor), and 15-20 reduction to his MA/MD. He was supposed to be a paralyzed old man using WH equivalent of wheelchair. He has no buissiness having those melee skills.
Centaurs: Based on unit cards, they seem to be nearly identical to Dragon Ogres (which cost 1650) with slightly better stats. Just adjust their price to 1600-1700, or nerf their stats accordingly.
Magma Cannon: First, nerf their range to ~250 match Flame Cannons. Also, make their vortex just deal damage and not hold entities in place like Pit of Shades.
Also, pls change how fire damage/resist works. K'daii should not be defeating Skarbrand.
I want a speed nerf too. 60 going down 10% is nothing. 50 is fair I feel. I don't even like that as lore like you said he is described as crippled, not superhuman iron man. The mass is one of his biggest problems tho as he just plows through anything. Whoever gave him 5k needs slapped or at very least a refresher on what mass is and what it does and what comparable units are currently at.
@@joshmilner4864 He can be turned to a slightly faster, less mass, less HP, much higher armour Slann tbh.
Speaking of which, I also believe Ku'gath should also lose a lot of his MA/MD, especially MD as he is a huge blob sitting on a toilet seat. He shouldn't be outdueling Skarbrand even without magic.
Also, can we implement weapon strength buffs to increase max splash targets as well?
Maybe it would have been a different ending if the miners used the blasting charges against the ironsworn instead of Gordo.
and if one unit of Miners didn't get wiped without using their charges at all.
Non-AP charges vs 130 armor, wouldn't have done much. It seems Chaos Dwarfs hard-counter Dwarfs in the infantry dept by Infernal Ironsworn. They can kill miner spam very effectively due to high def, and hammerers/ironbreakers will be getting rekt by the charges (and also the artillery). Thunderers will also struggle against silver shields. I think Ulthar's rangers are possibly the only effective response, after baiting the Ironsworn charges with miners or single entities.
Not only a land battle but a thematic one with cool units?
I might just have to become a channel member soon.
So excited just to see the whole meta unfold with the new race and some of the balance updates, always lets people get creative and try out new things which is amazing to watch!
Keep the land battles rolling.
Astragoth has the more magnificent beard, that is the real grudge tbh!
Look at these braids!
He used that Hammer ability, which almost deleted 1 dwarf warriors and 1 ranger unit, 4 times in one match... are you sure it is a balanced spell like you said ?
Btw, dwarfs have magical resist. In another unit it would delete from existance.
Got to STRONGLY disagree with you that they dont have anything over tuned.... Not sure if you are white knighting or what but its blatantly obvi to me Ironhand at 60 speed is silly his stats are insane for 1800ish. Bulls all out trade everything that is even designed to counter them for 300-500 or more less gold. And Mamagas have no right having AOE and Vortexs and what feels like 100% accurcy.
Ironhand and the magma are OP, perhaps this was an early one I recorded
Love the land battle!
Awesome video Turin. I'd love to see a 2v2 with Dwarfs and Empire against Chaos Dwarfs and something thematic. Maybe a chaos faction or even greenskins.
I feel like Chaos Dwarves are just Metal head Dawi teenagers that ran away from home to Worship Khorne and ended up creating what we know today as Chorfs
@@jansendawe9212 Not taking you too seriously, but I did hear that they were essentially lost when the Chaos Wastes expanded and couldn't be saved by their kin. They ended up worshipping Chaos to survive T_T
They did dwarfs mighty dirty. No new units. Chorfs just wiped the floor with dwarfs
man, I have been waiting almost a decade for some rock hard Turin casted DWARF BOWL matches! so excited to see more and how the meta develops!
very much enjoyed seeing a 'normal' land battle
Oh, oh, astrogoth just needs to be time-machine! Set up his -10% speed reduction to devastating -60%, with physresist for 40%. And make the calculation for 90 seconds of fight to empower that ability to full strength. And make that ability embedded with casting spell - to 8 spells for full strength.
And change nothing else. So he would be really cheap and powerhouse at the start, but in the late of a battle he just would turn into literally stone (add fatigue effect, so effective speed would be about 20). Then he would lose his tactical power, magic winds would be nearly zero by the time - but he still would be decent melee fighter. Endless pain for evil shorty boyz, I like that ;3
Astragoth needs to be nerfed hard.
He's as fast as a horse, has better stats than Taurox, is relatively cheap, and is a powerful wizard.
It's stupid.
reminds me of the "daniel vs cooler daniel" meme. its like everything the dwarfs dont have the chorfs get.
Great battle, and I like the thinking from both sides. I wonder if instead of Felix you had a Runesmith or maybe in addition, he would be able to help with the dueling but could also provide some buffs to your other units so that they fare better in some trades as well. But yea it seems like Enticity just out tech'd you by anticipating the two cannons and not bringing any Magma Cannons of his own and instead going extra hard on the elite infantry instead. You didn't really have anything for them except for the Skyhammer which has limited ammo so can only do so much. Bull Centaurs are an absolute nightmare in the late game for the Dawi to deal with since Enticity could confirm kills on your units and you really couldn't.
Fun stuff. Wonder how a similar army comp from both sides would have fared if this was a Domination game instead of a Land battle. obviously Astragoth's insane mobility would be possibly even more valuable there.
I do expect to see Astragoth toned down either in terms of stat nerfs or even better cost increases in the future. He does seem very overtuned as a Lord right now for what he costs.
I've seen Bull Centaurs beating the brakes off Dragon Ogres and Skullcrushers for less cost. Does it seem to shake out that way in real battles?
Astrogath and the Centaurs are ~500 gold underpriced, and the magma cannons probably need a 50-100 range nerf... but outside of that, CDwarfs just have a much more well-rounded roster than their non-chaotic counterparts.
Maybe if the Dwarfs got a sky barge, or a Gronti, or could paradrop units they could match up, but otherwise, these matches will probably always end this way
Magma cannons need more like a 200 range nerf AND a 300g increase. Far better projectiles than the dwarven flame cannon and none of the weaknesses of traditional arty.
I'm waiting for Astragoth vs Thorgrim, an epic Steel Chair duel.
Astrogoth's speed debuff should definitely be way higher. It'd be more interesting if he lost his speed advantage.
IMO Astragoth is underpriced, should be at least 2-300 more. The magma cannon is also a bit overtuned, especially when compared to flame cannons. The two cannons should probably have the same range at the very least (magma cannon being a single entity then has its pros and cons, ie less firepower in exchange for more durability)
I'd also argue that the ironsworn and ironbreakers blasting charges should be more similar, with higher AP on the ironbreakers. Miners can remain with the low AP blasting charges.
Bull Centaurs should also probably get a gold increase as they are better than K'day Fireborn and Dragon Ogres while costing less.
Cool stuff getting in the credits man!
0:59
You do the dragonborn proud
For me it seems like the counter play against this would be Miners with 50% of them with blasting charges vs slaves, and thunderers and rangers with throwing axes + 2 cannons. Warriors with great weapons dont make much sense if they get blasted anyway.
8:46 Astrogoth actually heals the cannon crew? xd
i swear canon health goes up after attack from Astragoth at 8:34ish
I knew I wasn't just imagining things!
That's because artillery health measures the artillery pieces first, but if they get destroyed or abandoned, it will switch to the health pool of the crew instead
Chaos Dwarfs are not OP, Chaos dwarfs proceed to win every match I've seen.................the nerf hammer will fall
Is the Grumbling Guard not that good anymore? I remember always bringing them in warhammer 2, and they would seem like a good pick against chaos dwarfs.
deleted by blasting charges, magma canon and infernal glaives
The grumbling guard is good when you can get an extended clash and grind down your opponent. Chorfs can just delete units way too quickly for vigour to make a major difference.
Chaos Dwarfs are Dwarf/Beastmen without there weaknesses.
Astragoth really feels too stacked. Good armor, good health, fast, decent melee attack and defence, deals AP and is a decent caster. If I had to tone him down I'd halve his armor and make his attacks do mostly non-AP damage. Even then he would still be fine.
I think Dawi players should just bring 2-3 thunderers if they're too afraid of magma cannons to bring hammerers. Rely on cannons to counter magma cannons, and just try to outmicro. Can serve dual purpose of taking out monsters while dealing with heavy infantry late game. Gyros just seem cute, but that's probably my own bias.
2:05 That's a given with naptha bombs.
Astragoth just looks utterly busted for his price
To the loremasters: since Grombrindal = Snorri, it is correct to say he was the one that gave the Chaos Dwarfs for dead and did not look into their fate?
Hey @Turin do you think Astrogath should be changed to large?
Chaos dwarfs need some balancing. Faction looks really cool but stuff like that LL costing 1800!? Come on CA, you're better than that.
first thing i will do when those overpowered i-got-it-alls come in game is fight them with regular dawi in multiplayer and show them who is the real dwarf
Same here brother, khazukan kazakit ha!
i could see brimstone gyros usefull against the flame canons since its basicly a sem, just a theorie, still waiting for the release :D
I've been waiting to see this one D vs CD.
Are irondrakes not effective against chords?
I would still prefer more dwarf stuff over chaos dwarfs but its cool to have them in the game!
I’ll fight anyone who doesn’t root for the Dawi
Maybe using master engineer to re up ammo on the gyrobomber would be good
Love the land battle grudge!!
Astragoth needs a speed nerf, or a huge price increase. He has too much of everything, and for the price of 1800 it's just too strong. I cannot think of a single LL that is even close to as powerful for that price range.
If he only had 30 speed, so his mobility was a stress point that you could exploit, than he'd be fine, but that goofy sprint he does is way too OP in tandem with being a better duelist than Taurox while also being a full caster.
IMO astragoth, bull centaurs and magma cannons are a bit overtuned
I would love to see some 2v2 looking into chaos dwarves and best faction to support them and visa versa.
powercreep vs game 1 units
Dwarf ready need some anti-large fast melee unit to counter chaos-dwarf.
CA, give the normal dwarves some new units. You gave everything to the chaos dwarfs!
I'm too happy when i see gotrek or felix!
we need to see the improved luminark in a game!!
Would not be surprised if magma cannons win artillery duels as well.
Not necessarily. Empire artillery, Luminark in particular, completely shuts down Chorf artillery, which at the moment is only one actually viable unit anyway
I feel the Chorfs really lack a good anti large unit. Sure their bull centaurs and some range are effective, but if a monster comes to munch, they don't really have anything to ward them off (in the same way dwarfs have slayers). They in particular lack a good single entity killing artillery.
Honestly, Bull Centaurs and their glaive firearms are going to be enough in almost all cases. Bull centaurs have too easy of a time trading upward.
Isnt this the full gyro matchup for Dwarfs?
I feel that if the Chorfs had brought at least one unit of ranged unit i think it would have been better for at least screening out the gyrocopter
I think all these battle replays are from before they played on stream. The two Dawi vs Chorfs battles at the end of the stream from a couple days ago were both absolutely one-sided in favor of Chorfs, and Enticity spammed gyros in one them
Need a price/weapon strength increase/reduction on Astragoth and Bull Centaurs need a straight nerf then I think chaos dworfs are balanced!
Close one! I think the dwarves have a lot of potential against Chaos Dwarves, if only the Dwarf lords were better
Atragoth is looking very very overtuned. His stats make the brass bull wheep.
Thanks for the video
TURIN YOU NEVER MISS 😍😍
you can talk at a normal speed
@Turin why did you call the goblin hero “Chaos Dwarf Sigvald” LOL what did I miss?
Dude is kind of a Walmart sigvald with his tankiness his MD is ludicrous and he has access to self healing
@@heartofbone4981 oh damn XD
what a great match!
They ´RONG themselves.
Maybe just the 1 cannon (for land battles) 🤔
Very thematic!
We need malakai and the Spirit of Grugni
Isn't both Grombrindal and Slayers unbreakable? How did army lose happen?
The player probably conceded.
I miss land balttles
Does CA ask the Creators for Feedback on the Chaos Dwarfs?
Yes I have reported that I feel magma/azgo need some cost increases!
you need to limit your game frame rate or adjust your performance balnce, your recording drops like 50% of its frames. Also youtube says you uploaded this video in 60 fps but that is a big mistake as the framerate is a stuttery 20 FPS. Please adjust your recording settings because its quite a ugly to watch. Potentially the game is taking too many resources from your GPU/CPU, so its best you limit it to 60 FPS and record at 30 FPS to make sure you have a more consistent framerate. Potentially get other total war youtubers to help you because this is another level of stuttery
Sounds like your in a large room with echoing
Daemonslayer when?
GG
Need more dwarf vs dwarf, to me seems some chorves are overtuned aswell as having a better overall kit with mobility and magic aswell as certain artillery just being straight up better being a single entity.
HASHUT HASHUT HASHUT
For the dragonborn? Lol
I feel like stats wise they just really hit the mark with chaos dwarves, making them super powerful and fun looking but there's just some pricing issues which I hope are easily fixed
Ironhand has the highest Mass of any char in the game that is not large. Even then he has more mass the most large units. He is completely busted Stat wise and there is ZERO lore to back up any of this. He was a great caster..... half his body is stone and he fights better then duelist char..... major diff between fun and balanced and he is neither atm as he is a unstoppable. Needs nerfs not just price.
noice
fus ro dawi
nothing egregiously over powered... looks over at the bull centaurs yeah nothing to over powered here, or the like easy 60 percent fire weakness when there whole army is pretty much fire attacks
First!
Cannons suck IMO
first ^^