Hi Chris, Just watched this one of yours. It is the same lens/shutter that came on my Perkeo 2. I suspect that mine needs to be disassembled and cleaned as well however having spent months a couple of years ago working on mechanical watches, I know that I don't have the eyes or dexterity. You make it look like you could do a Prontor-S in your sleep!
Thank you for doing these videos! Saved my Franka Solida III with a Prontor SV (most things identical to your tutorial) that I tried to quick fix for too slow speeds from 1/10 and slower but which instead forced me to a full (first time) disassembly, cleaning and reassembly (oil all over shutter and aperture blades...). The aperture blades took 12 hours, three times giving up and a night's sleep before a satisfying click of the last pin seated in its pivot. All easy from then, I thought. But then was the (feeling of an) impossible task of putting the shutter mechanism holder over the shutter blades (couldn't get the flash contact out of the way and nudged blades out of position) that made me give up, pack it up with a note of my failed attempts and in storage. Until a few days later when I thought, maybe I can put the blades at open position then slowly, carefully close the shutter and then fit the cover. Worked perfectly! However I would never have managed without your clear, careful and detailed tutorial. Truely grateful as the camera now works perfectly and fun to shot giving nice photos.
I have one of those small magnets on the end of a telescopic arm for things that go 'ping'. These pingers can not only travel a surprising distance but seem to be able to adapt to their surroundings as well as a Chameleon can sometimes. A good tip I've found is to always check the soles of your feet before giving up. One tiny spring I had go awol turned up in a different room. I can only imagine it was taken there on the sole of my shoe, or someone else's.
@@ChrisSherlock the next one it's going to be a Baldaxette II with a compur-rapid with T-B not working. I will look in your channel for the servicing guide that fits more closely. I am pretty sure there will be one. Thank you again and greetings from your antipodes.
Happy to see you worjing on a Perkeo, one of my favorite vintage cameras. You overhauled a Retina for me, three or four years ago, and it's still going strong.
Hi Chris, I am working on a Perkeo 1, my first attempt at camera repair and getting off to a difficult start, I had quite a job to get the centre lens group out, had to to take your advice and as all else had failed, I cut two grooves across the flange, didn't want too, put a six inch rule across and after nearly giving up it finally came off, then the next step of moving the retainer ring proved a nightmare, it is very tight and refuses all attempts to get it off HELP!!! Regards John
I'm new to servicing my own vintage cameras. Can I ask what is that black friction something you said I didn't quite catch that you used to remove the lens elements? I would like to get one. Great video as always. Many thanks.
HI Chris, I have a Perkeo II Color skopar and Prontor shutter. it has 2 issues: First, the long times are not accurate (way too long and also inconsistent) Second, the shutter release button does not work (seems stuck), only if I trigger it on the connection next to the lens (dont know how that is called) Do you have any recommendation?
Chris--This is inspirational! I'm awaiting a Perkeo II from eBay. It would be gratifying to send it to you for CLA. Do you take on such projects for folder lovers?
Chris, when I cock the shutter the cocking lever returns a bit and allows the shutter leaves to peek open slightly. Everything seems to fire correctly otherwise. Do you have any advice on where I should look? Thank you.
Hello, I have a Prontor-SV (from an Agfa Isolette III, it's pretty much the same shutter to my eye) and it wasn't cocking properly and it was moving quite janky, so I opened the first lid up and found a loose piece of very thin wire which I suspect is from that tricky spring under the main cocking lever, is this replaceable/fixable? It's the spring you mention here 24:03 I'm kinda frustrated that this broken spring is the issue since I think it's basically the one you wind up by cocking the shutter :(
Anything is fixable, the main problem is determining which parts are required, and where you can find them. Generally, you will need to find an organ-donor for anything special. Simple springs can be formed from suitable spring wire.
@@ChrisSherlockwell, true, is there any Prontor manual or parts diagram that shows what i might need to do? Would it require to be an specific tension and length etc?
@@tomasdahuabe Spring wire of the same thickness generally works much the same. You can find a copy of the manual here. retinarescue.com/files/PRONTOR-S-SV-SVS1.pdf
@@ChrisSherlock I found the issue! Thankfully it's not the winding spring what's broken (though it's out of its place but seems easy to fix), what's broken is the spring that pushes outwards the "Driving Arm of Cocking Lever" (as mentioned on that manual, page 17), making it loose. I was thinking of replicating the spring with guitar wire, do you have any suggestions? I was searching for a pen around my house with a spring of the same thickness but had no luck. Thanks for the help
@@ChrisSherlock Do you have a video of you placing the cocking lever spring back into its intended position and tension? I ask because I just replaced the Driving Arm spring (I made my own with a guitar string and it surprisingly works) I mentioned on my last reply, put it back together and it fires nicely until I place back the spring that forces the Blade Driving Ring to go counterclockwise, as soon as I put that spring one back, it becomes sluggish and doesn't complete it's cycle unless I help it by pushing it. I suspect this is because the cocking spring is either not correctly positioned or not wound enough so it doesn't have enough tension to push the entire mechanism. Or it could be that I just simply tightened something up way too much? Are these videos (this one and the one of you fixing a Retinette type 017) the only ones you address Prontor shutters like this? Oh and thanks for all your help so far and encouraging me to repair this. I really lost hope for a moment.
Hello Chris,Is there anybody else that you know who would service my voigtlander perkeo 1 cameras? I am living in Ireland.A lovely camera technician here who was going to look at them has died of cancer just recently.Kind regards,Fiona
Hey Chris, Ive got a Prontor SV in front of me right now. My problem is that the shutter cannot be released anymore. Its cocked permanently and pressing the release lever doesnt start off anything. Also, the selftimer doesnt work properly anymore. It cannot be released by pushing the lever. Already opened up the mechanism and I can only release the selftimer with a slight push to one of the dials which makes it jump instantly instead of working properly like a selftimer does. Do you have any advice (especially for the cocked shutter)? :)
Most likely the shutter blades or the blade-actuating ring are stuck with oil or dried-out lubricants. The shutter will probably need to be stripped and serviced. Warm the shutter up with a hair-dryer and see if it magically starts to work, often they will. This a diagnostic test, not a repair.
@@ChrisSherlock Hey Chris, thanks for your advice! I will try that. For now while reassembling the lens again, I just wondered how to slide on the focus ring again. In part 4 of this series, I couldnt really understand what youve said at the end when youve proceeded to that bit (Im not a native English speaker). Do I start off from the infinity position?
It is easiest to use the infinity position. Commonly the focus ring is held to the front group with three tiny screws. Usually I get the focus correct at infinity using a ground-glass screen, a loupe, and a suitable infinity target. Then all that is needed is to slip the focus scale ring over the lens up against the infinity stop, and tighten the three screws.
@@ChrisSherlock Ah I see! But I will first need to fix the shutter problem because I cannot open the blades. The hair dryer test has not worked so far, unfortunately. Do you have any other idea what might cause the shutter to not be release once I press the release? :/
I have a shutter like this one (prontor-s), but it’s a large size from a Balda camera with f2.9 aperture. I am stuck at removing the middle element, it won’t budge. I assume that it’s supposed to be removed the same way like in this video. I was thinking that they might have sealed the threads and I need to use a little solvent. Any ideas on how to go about it?
I'd need to see that to give an opinion. It is not unknown to have the centre element of a triplet cemented into the mount. If you can open the shutter with the centre element still in place, then do so, and clean the lens in place.
The triplet lens is highly sensitive to lens spacing so Schneider may have fixed the central element as a reference for the others. Answer given for a Radionar lens.
I have got it apart finally. I had to drill holes for a spanner wrench and then let it sit in alcohol. It broke loose with difficulty. There was a sealant used on the threads and some corrosion as well. I am cleaning it all up now.
James Jacocks could be the case. I ll put it in exact same position as before. From what I can tell it’s pretty much a radionar, albeit a little different. Middle element is supposed out come apart with a friction tool and there were no holes for spanner. It’s an isco westar (early one, still says US zone on it). I have a franka with a radionar in a compur shutter to compare later.
Hi Chris, I need your help please. It's to do with the main spring under the main lever that you advised not disassemble 'unless in great need'. On mine (Voigtlander Bessa I), the lever would only release half way and as I suspected, it's the main spring that's the culprit which is loose and not tensioned as you demonstrated (24:10). As a newbie, I can't tell whether the spring is buggered, fitted wrong, or someone refitted the wrong one! Any chance of adding a short clip showing how it actually works and fitted please? Have searched everywhere but no luck. Many thanks. Tim. PS: Here's a link showing the loose spring ruclips.net/video/A0HDGzjLoeE/видео.html
Wooaooo…. You are just a magician :). Thx a lot for this serie of videos very explainative and well filmed. Great job.
Hi Chris, Just watched this one of yours. It is the same lens/shutter that came on my Perkeo 2. I suspect that mine needs to be disassembled and cleaned as well however having spent months a couple of years ago working on mechanical watches, I know that I don't have the eyes or dexterity. You make it look like you could do a Prontor-S in your sleep!
Thank you for doing these videos! Saved my Franka Solida III with a Prontor SV (most things identical to your tutorial) that I tried to quick fix for too slow speeds from 1/10 and slower but which instead forced me to a full (first time) disassembly, cleaning and reassembly (oil all over shutter and aperture blades...). The aperture blades took 12 hours, three times giving up and a night's sleep before a satisfying click of the last pin seated in its pivot. All easy from then, I thought. But then was the (feeling of an) impossible task of putting the shutter mechanism holder over the shutter blades (couldn't get the flash contact out of the way and nudged blades out of position) that made me give up, pack it up with a note of my failed attempts and in storage. Until a few days later when I thought, maybe I can put the blades at open position then slowly, carefully close the shutter and then fit the cover. Worked perfectly! However I would never have managed without your clear, careful and detailed tutorial. Truely grateful as the camera now works perfectly and fun to shot giving nice photos.
Hi there. Just fixed my Perkeo 1 and your videos were amazing. Thank you very much indeed Sir from the UK :-)
That brass bush/spacer took off like a rocket!
I have one of those small magnets on the end of a telescopic arm for things that go 'ping'. These pingers can not only travel a surprising distance but seem to be able to adapt to their surroundings as well as a Chameleon can sometimes. A good tip I've found is to always check the soles of your feet before giving up. One tiny spring I had go awol turned up in a different room. I can only imagine it was taken there on the sole of my shoe, or someone else's.
Pieces that go 'ping' have a guidance system that directs them into a pile carpet, under a piece of furniture.
I have the Bessa 66 with a shutter that needs cleaning. This give a good example of how to open, disassemble and clean the shutter. Thanks.
Amazing work in your channel, many thanks for sharing! You helped me greatly in bringing back to life a recently acquired Perkeo.
I'm pleased to hear that my video helped you.
@@ChrisSherlock the next one it's going to be a Baldaxette II with a compur-rapid with T-B not working. I will look in your channel for the servicing guide that fits more closely. I am pretty sure there will be one. Thank you again and greetings from your antipodes.
Happy to see you worjing on a Perkeo, one of my favorite vintage cameras.
You overhauled a Retina for me, three or four years ago, and it's still going strong.
Understood, Chris. Thanks for quick reply...and for saving fine, old cameras!
Wow! So delighted that you’re doing a Prontor shutter! Thanks.
just my luck, the part you said not to disassemble is the part i need to see reassembled!
Hi Chris, I am working on a Perkeo 1, my first attempt at camera repair and getting off to a difficult start, I had quite a job to get the centre lens group out, had to to take your advice and as all else had failed, I cut two grooves across the flange, didn't want too, put a six inch rule across and after nearly giving up it finally came off, then the next step of moving the retainer ring proved a nightmare, it is very tight and refuses all attempts to get it off HELP!!! Regards John
I'm new to servicing my own vintage cameras. Can I ask what is that black friction something you said I didn't quite catch that you used to remove the lens elements? I would like to get one. Great video as always. Many thanks.
HI Chris, I have a Perkeo II Color skopar and Prontor shutter.
it has 2 issues:
First, the long times are not accurate (way too long and also inconsistent)
Second, the shutter release button does not work (seems stuck), only if I trigger it on the connection next to the lens (dont know how that is called)
Do you have any recommendation?
Chris--This is inspirational! I'm awaiting a Perkeo II from eBay. It would be gratifying to send it to you for CLA. Do you take on such projects for folder lovers?
I've had to stop taking any cameras for repair other than Retina and Retinettes now, sorry. I have too much work!
Chris, when I cock the shutter the cocking lever returns a bit and allows the shutter leaves to peek open slightly. Everything seems to fire correctly otherwise. Do you have any advice on where I should look? Thank you.
Check that the spring visible at 13:15 is present. This keeps the blade actuating ring firmly parked with the blades closed.
Hello, I have a Prontor-SV (from an Agfa Isolette III, it's pretty much the same shutter to my eye) and it wasn't cocking properly and it was moving quite janky, so I opened the first lid up and found a loose piece of very thin wire which I suspect is from that tricky spring under the main cocking lever, is this replaceable/fixable? It's the spring you mention here 24:03
I'm kinda frustrated that this broken spring is the issue since I think it's basically the one you wind up by cocking the shutter :(
Anything is fixable, the main problem is determining which parts are required, and where you can find them. Generally, you will need to find an organ-donor for anything special. Simple springs can be formed from suitable spring wire.
@@ChrisSherlockwell, true, is there any Prontor manual or parts diagram that shows what i might need to do? Would it require to be an specific tension and length etc?
@@tomasdahuabe
Spring wire of the same thickness generally works much the same.
You can find a copy of the manual here. retinarescue.com/files/PRONTOR-S-SV-SVS1.pdf
@@ChrisSherlock I found the issue! Thankfully it's not the winding spring what's broken (though it's out of its place but seems easy to fix), what's broken is the spring that pushes outwards the "Driving Arm of Cocking Lever" (as mentioned on that manual, page 17), making it loose.
I was thinking of replicating the spring with guitar wire, do you have any suggestions? I was searching for a pen around my house with a spring of the same thickness but had no luck.
Thanks for the help
@@ChrisSherlock Do you have a video of you placing the cocking lever spring back into its intended position and tension?
I ask because I just replaced the Driving Arm spring (I made my own with a guitar string and it surprisingly works) I mentioned on my last reply, put it back together and it fires nicely until I place back the spring that forces the Blade Driving Ring to go counterclockwise, as soon as I put that spring one back, it becomes sluggish and doesn't complete it's cycle unless I help it by pushing it. I suspect this is because the cocking spring is either not correctly positioned or not wound enough so it doesn't have enough tension to push the entire mechanism. Or it could be that I just simply tightened something up way too much?
Are these videos (this one and the one of you fixing a Retinette type 017) the only ones you address Prontor shutters like this?
Oh and thanks for all your help so far and encouraging me to repair this. I really lost hope for a moment.
Hello Chris,Is there anybody else that you know who would service my voigtlander perkeo 1 cameras?
I am living in Ireland.A lovely camera technician here who was going to look at them has died of cancer just recently.Kind regards,Fiona
Hey Chris, Ive got a Prontor SV in front of me right now. My problem is that the shutter cannot be released anymore. Its cocked permanently and pressing the release lever doesnt start off anything. Also, the selftimer doesnt work properly anymore. It cannot be released by pushing the lever. Already opened up the mechanism and I can only release the selftimer with a slight push to one of the dials which makes it jump instantly instead of working properly like a selftimer does.
Do you have any advice (especially for the cocked shutter)? :)
Most likely the shutter blades or the blade-actuating ring are stuck with oil or dried-out lubricants. The shutter will probably need to be stripped and serviced. Warm the shutter up with a hair-dryer and see if it magically starts to work, often they will. This a diagnostic test, not a repair.
@@ChrisSherlock Hey Chris, thanks for your advice! I will try that. For now while reassembling the lens again, I just wondered how to slide on the focus ring again. In part 4 of this series, I couldnt really understand what youve said at the end when youve proceeded to that bit (Im not a native English speaker). Do I start off from the infinity position?
It is easiest to use the infinity position. Commonly the focus ring is held to the front group with three tiny screws. Usually I get the focus correct at infinity using a ground-glass screen, a loupe, and a suitable infinity target. Then all that is needed is to slip the focus scale ring over the lens up against the infinity stop, and tighten the three screws.
@@ChrisSherlock Ah I see! But I will first need to fix the shutter problem because I cannot open the blades. The hair dryer test has not worked so far, unfortunately. Do you have any other idea what might cause the shutter to not be release once I press the release? :/
Taking a wild stab in the dark, I'd say the self-timer is jammed most probably.
How can I send you mine! The shutter button is stuck and the shutter might need work
Please email me at retinarepair@gmail.com
I have a shutter like this one (prontor-s), but it’s a large size from a Balda camera with f2.9 aperture. I am stuck at removing the middle element, it won’t budge. I assume that it’s supposed to be removed the same way like in this video. I was thinking that they might have sealed the threads and I need to use a little solvent. Any ideas on how to go about it?
I'd need to see that to give an opinion. It is not unknown to have the centre element of a triplet cemented into the mount. If you can open the shutter with the centre element still in place, then do so, and clean the lens in place.
The triplet lens is highly sensitive to lens spacing so Schneider may have fixed the central element as a reference for the others. Answer given for a Radionar lens.
I have got it apart finally. I had to drill holes for a spanner wrench and then let it sit in alcohol. It broke loose with difficulty. There was a sealant used on the threads and some corrosion as well. I am cleaning it all up now.
James Jacocks could be the case. I ll put it in exact same position as before. From what I can tell it’s pretty much a radionar, albeit a little different. Middle element is supposed out come apart with a friction tool and there were no holes for spanner. It’s an isco westar (early one, still says US zone on it). I have a franka with a radionar in a compur shutter to compare later.
Hi Chris, I need your help please. It's to do with the main spring under the main lever that you advised not disassemble 'unless in great need'. On mine (Voigtlander Bessa I), the lever would only release half way and as I suspected, it's the main spring that's the culprit which is loose and not tensioned as you demonstrated (24:10). As a newbie, I can't tell whether the spring is buggered, fitted wrong, or someone refitted the wrong one! Any chance of adding a short clip showing how it actually works and fitted please? Have searched everywhere but no luck. Many thanks. Tim. PS: Here's a link showing the loose spring ruclips.net/video/A0HDGzjLoeE/видео.html