Star Wars: The Acolyte "CHOICE" Episode 7 Review
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- Time to see the other side of story...
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Chekov's Wookie, well known trope.
I know this trope, it was inwented in Russia
I was pleasantly surprised that the Jedi council advised against intervening with the coven. Obviously we knew that the four Jedi did something unsanctioned, but I thought for sure the Order would be shown in a more imperialist/authoritarian light
Nah telling a kid their twin killed everyone she loved while trying to teach emotional balance makes no sense
Right; they were protecting themselves.
Interestingly, it’s established in the High Republic books that Padawans frequently have romantic and sexual involvements with one another, and that the senior Jedi of course know and just look the other way, only giving advice when asked. And generally letting Padawans know that it is a perfectly acceptable part of the process to ask these questions, have such experiences, etc. But that being a knight would be (probably) forswearing such involvements.
I say “probably” because there is a Jedi Master on the High Council in the High Republic who separates “attachment” and caring sexual relationships, arguing that it is not forbidden in the code to care about people and have sex with them, and thus to have what we might term “health attachments,” but rather it’s only forbidden to form what we might terms “anxious,” “avoidant,” or “chaotic” attachments with them.
And, again, she’s on the High Council. And there’s an implication that her position is closer to the traditional Jedi position, but that recent times has seen an increase in knights choosing to be more-or-less celibate to the point it was becoming culturally expected.
oh thats super interesting...
@@jessiegenderafterdark5287 Yeah High Republic changes sooo much stuff.
I do like that idea. In the old republic game there’s a side quest where relationships cause issues because it’s forbidden. I much preferred the legends attitude with Luke’s Jedi order.
@@ausnetscience yeah, the goal of the rule doesn't really require you to not have relationships at all..
I think with Torbin, it was the mind control and dark side influences of the planet that took a small thought and amplified it into something much greater than it otherwise would have been. I think the witches used that small desire to first control him, but it kind of stuck with him for awhile afterwards. That's how I interpreted that. Which is also why the Wookie had those lingering thoughts years later after he was mind controlled. Sort of how Anakin's desire to save Padme became something that overwhelmed him after Palpatine's influence. Though these things should have been spelled out better.
This is, I think, how 'The Dark Side' actually works. Not as anything inherently malevolent, it's just 'The Force' channeled through strong emotion. The Force reacts strongly with these emotions and this amps-up a force-user's power, but it also amplifies the emotions themselves. We see this with the other Force Witch and she's deliberately provoking Mei to get her Angry so she'll be amped-up and powerful enough to resist the Jedi (another example of people in this situation doing what they thought was right in the moment and only making things worse) but also that feeding back into Mei and clouding her judgement and oops everything is fire now.
I understood this too. Torbin was the weak link, so break the Jedi there.
Torbin having a love interest would have explained why he was so anxious to get back. It would also explain for why he punished himself so harshly. Him braking the jedi code led to life's lost and community destroyed. I still have questions after this episode. Were the girls in danger or not? What is the hole for? They didn't explain everything.
I agree about Torbin, though the hole is implied to be the Vergence/force nexus the Jedi sought (and as with much of the force worldbuilding as a soft power system we are unlikely to get a crystal clear vision of what such a thing can and can't do).
I think the hole is the vergence. In regards to the girls being in danger or not, I think that's not the point of the episode. How I read it is that The point is that sol saw the girls as being in danger. He assumed his first instincts was right and while they were noble he didn't bother to fully think through the situation which led to them rushing in. I think sols story in this episode is essentially meant to mirror the jedi in the prequel era. The jedi had noble intentions but they were also arrogant. They assumed that their actions were correct no matter what which led to them being involved in a war as generals etc. sols mindset this episode is meant to essentially represent that. In regards to the torbin thing, I think it's more that torbin thought this assignment was beneath it. Trapped on a nowhere planet analysing plants. I think his story was a little rushed but I do see the basis for it..ultimately that's my problem with this show. I think they've got good concepts but they don't give themselves the time to fully explore them. Like why torbin was so insistent on leaving etc. I do agree that the show essentially gives us very few answers about the witches way of life and the vergence and I dont really think we're gonna get any unfortunately with the last episode coming up
Maybe Tobin missed civilization. 7 weeks in the woods is insane for a city kid. Remember he grew up on Correscant.
Torbin dying to get back to a love interest would make him look like a weak simp and this show like a manga for 12 year old girls . Thank god you were not one of the writers . This show is getting enough hate. Making it into a middle school drama would of made the hate astronomical
@@majorlazor5058 He is also a trained Jedi, I would expect that behavior from a regular teen, but not from some with the patience and discipline they taught in the academy.
Abigail had lines!!!
I was hoping she would be a republic spy or something. But Her casting just seems like a performative activism and a ribbon to wear on a meh show. Now in full context
Speaking as someone who has worked in the school system, even back in episode 3 I recognized that the way the Jedi were behaving was consistent with how you behave when you think a child is being abused. Glad I didn't read that wrong.
I also like the tragedy that both sides love the twins and are trying to protect them, and that leads them to darkness. Love and justice rarely mix well, because love demands that some are exceptional and justice demands that no one is, hence why the Jedi are so careful to detach love from justice. When you are wielding a weapon, you must be absolutely just, because if you make a mistake you can't take that back.
And, to me, it seemed like so many small decisions compounded each other, a bad choice by Torbin, Sol, Koril and Mae, all coming from places of protection or fear, snowball in the worst way. If it had just been Anaseiya and Indara talking as equals, which they both wanted, none of it would have happened.
This is completely different than a school setting were relationships are built and it's their job to protect children.
Sol is a weird creep that imprinted on a child he stalked while hiding behind a tree. There was literally no reason for Sol to want to take this kid away.
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord He saw the girls getting Force shoved during a lesson, the girls had been isolated from the outside world, and Mae accidentally implied they were going to be used as human sacrifices. I'm not saying Sol's actions are excusable, that's the whole point, but I'm saying that 'there was literally no reason he wanted to take this child away' is oversimplifying.
As for him 'stalking' the children, he was doing basic reconnaissance on an unknown people. It's not like he was following the kids specifically, just trying to figure out who these people were.
@@nomisunrider6472 Ok, but.... he has no actual right to interfere. This episode has an odd bifurcation. It says the Jedi can test anyone inside their jurisdiction... but also says this planet is outside their jurisdiction. It also says the twins are too old to be taken for training anyways.
Also... the Force shove... is AFTER he spends hours sneaking inside the repurposed mining complex.
And at no point is it explained why he's suddenly obsessed with Osha.
@@marhawkman303what do you mean he didn’t have a right ? He didn’t want to a child get sacrificed
This may have been mentioned already, but I took Torbin's headstrong actions to be motivated by Aniseya's dip into his head. She exploited his weakness and desire in order to destabilize the group, ramping up a general adolescent discontent into an obsessive need to act. But I agree that it was a missed opportunity to give Torbin a stronger character.
16:59 (The Witches Die?)
i don't think they're dead.
now that I've seen this episode from the Jedi perspective and how they might not fully get and understand stuff, I don't think they're dead. I think at most, that group energy mist steering thing just took a lot of energy out of them and just collapsed them. And since Sol didn't see that, he saw them all on the ground and was probably super rushed up in the moment and wasn't able to really look into this. So he assumed they were dead and kept running since Osha and Mae were his priority.
Probably if Carrie-Ann Moss's character took a look at that section of the fortress and the place wasn't burning up, she might've noticed they still had some life in them.
After watching this, I think The Witches probably got out of there a little bit after the jedi left and their window escape time was much smaller, since i assume the fire and destruction would've been way bigger by the time they woke up. Also the surviving members probably didn't force sense wherever Mae landed and were probably super rushed to get out of there at that point.
I'm not sure how Mae got off the planet and where the Sith guy came in though. 🤷♂
Or how Mae ended up under the yellow poison tree...... Since THAT happened despite everyone else not being around.
I thought the coven mother was trying to teleport herself and Mae to safety given we saw Koril pull the same move a few seconds later?
Then again I took Shimi Skywalker saying 'there was no father' to mean she didn't know who the father was (or didn't want to know) but apparently we are actually supposed to take all of star wars exactly at face value and care about the vaguely defined rules of the force.
I disagree about Torbin, I would HATE to spend two months in the middle of nowhere with the same three people doing the same menial tasks over and over and over again without a real break.
And at the end of that, following one of your colleague's wild hunches and entering this creepy fortress full of creepy witches and one of them GETS IN YOUR MIND! Yeah, "What's this? A single straw leading to Off This Planet? I'll grab that with both fists please!"
I think it actually might have been better if the vergence itself was making him feel uneased
@@chadvansyoc11 Nah, vergence was past already. as some people pointed out.. as aired... he doesn't even know what he's there looking for!!! They don't tell him until he's been there 7 weeks!!!!
Queen Aniseya will forever be a favorite character of mine ;-; I assumed she turned to that ethereal form as soon as she saw Sol and Korill going at it, so she attempted to intervene and her desire to stop the two was misinterpreted as aggression by Sol.
It's funny how Sol and Indara have such reversed roles in this episode and the previous perspective on that night.
I have this feeling, Sol was being controlled by the other mother. Forcing his actions, right after he felt guilty, and sorrow. He didn't mean to use his lightsaber on Aniseya
Oh same. She’s one of my favorites for sure. Such a vibe and a presence.
Where do they ever call her Queen?😂
@@penpointredbut she died and didn’t get to evolve. They could have done more.
Yeah this show has weird issues with characterization.. people have whatever motive the current scene wants them to have.... and ignores the previous scene.
I absolutely loved this episode! Carrie-Anne Moss's performance subtleties were definitely a highlight.
Lucky you, I’m envious. I’m not particularly enjoying it at all.
Really? To me it was excruciating to see an actress of her caliber trying to act a mind boggling dumb dialogue. Who writes these scripts? GPT??
I was frustrated by the "both sides" ignorance/arrogance. I agree they could have worked it out in a Twin Twains talk.
Still confused why Indara didn’t recognize Mae by at least thinking “hey, it’s Sol’s padawan”In ep1
Because the last time she saw her she was a small child who was assumed dead.
but she did recognise her. she said "you!" when seeing mae's face and then moved to check for the witchy tattoo
I really gotta wonder why these flashback episodes were placed where they were. Why did they need to be the third and seventh episodes, respectively? What about those points in the present day story made them think these were two good places to halt the plot and go back? And the worst thing is I don’t think this new info changed much at all about how I feel about any of these characters. Well, that and there’s ABSOLUTELY NO WAY they’re wrapping this all up satisfyingly next episode.
Especially since last episode implied Sol’s talking to Mae about this. She is standing right next to them as Sol murders her mother. There’s nothing he can reveal to her.
I don’t have an issue with the placement of a flashback being episode 7, but I think the first flashback should have been episode 2.
i still maintain that the mae sections last ep were largely unnecessary. they were only there to stall until the flashback re-reveal. not to mention, the replies are right, this tells mae nothing new! the only thing she didn't know are the jedi's intentions, and those are not worth a dime to her nor would she believe him
I think they thought they were being clever when in reality we barely even learned anything here that we didn't learn in the previous flashback. They could have easily combined them into one and had that be the intro, with us knowing and wondering when or if Sol would finally reveal things. It stinks that so many stories are more about withholding something for a mystery instead of telling the audience something a character doesn't know and exploring the tension and dynamic between the characters from that point of view.
@@Enjoyurble especially since they've made it Pretty obvious basically from the get go that Something was up. and the "mystery" ended up being rather underwhelming. Yes, knowing the mystery without _knowing_ it isn't always bad, but when you hinge too much of the plot on *not* knowing, it sours
To be fair :
1: Sol sees children using dark side torturing animals
2: weeks she the Children using darkside aggression in combat training
3: the children were being manipulated to fail the test first
3: they violated Torbin’s mind
4: writing wise most of the actions were nonsensical
5: Jedi are empaths and most of the coven wanted to kill them
The Coven wanted the Jedi gone, they came to this planet trying to AVOID the Jedi. Soo... all the hostility came from that.
Shallow is definitely the word for me here. The basics of the plot are an interesting idea, but I wasn’t fully convinced.
Yeah there's a skeleton of what could be a good story... but it's not written to be one.
How did the generator still get destroyed this time? One electric door fire couldn't do all that cascading systemic failure in a stone fortress. Did it even show it being sabotaged?
someone else was definitely there. That fire didn't do that.
maybe this is where Sith Helmet guy comes in?
I think, if you look close enough, there are exposed wires near the kid’s door. They start to shoot small bursts of lightning which could have led to the chain reaction but I still find that kind of contrived.
It's star wars. Generators spontaneously combust if someone sneezes near them. I wonder why the empire even bothered shooting them out at the start of a new hope when they could have waited for the natural eb and flow of the universe to make it catch fire.
@@Blackhawk19892thats bull that has never happened without sabotage.
Carrie Anne Moss channeled a lot of school principal vibes in this episode
Wild that the answer to the big mystery turned out to be “a really long complicated series of misunderstandings”
Also I can’t help but feel like this episode turned whatever critique they were trying to make about the Jedi order as a structure into more of just a story about how one or two people messed up once??
Feels like the story was more about excuses for plot to happen, and.. just doesn't work.
In the last few weeks of the show we had the notion that this show is basically showing us the beginning of the Downfall of the Jedi. And when we saw in the first few minutes how the Jedi were basically on a science mission to find about the vergence, I somehow got the feeling that this basically looks like a group of Starfleet scientists on an away mission. Together with what we have seen on Prodigy and Picard, it‘ll be really interesting to compare how those institutions slowly erode due to wars, miscommunication and fear and it really takes immense strength to sustain the balance of inner peace and freedom against inside and outside forces who want to clear out the common basis of society and pervert it
Actually Leslye Headland in interviews when talking about writing this used a bunt of Star Trek analogies... so... you're REALLY close to the truth probably.
ok so about the mothers mist move, i just watched that scene again and she does it right as torbin and the other mother draw their weapons, also when she does it, mae begins to turn to mist as well, so i think we can assume she is trying to teleport mae and herself away from any fighting to protect her daughter. i think all it is is a teleportation ability, yeah initially i thought it had something to do with the mind control, but i think later the witches literally just teleport themselves into another room to do the mind control, and they are separate powers.
maybe this is like you say, making it work in my head lol, but to me that scene and her motivations totally worked
I thought the same, especially since Mae just came in screaming for help. I think Aniseya realized that Osha must be in danger, so she tried to go and save her while taking Mae with her to not leave her alone in the middle of a potential fight.
@@Nejvyn Another perspective of that scene is that it also comes across as her about to dust her daughter, with no prior knowledge of what that power is and Mae's earlier comment to Sol about having to make sacrifices only added to the misunderstandings the need for action.
Torban ran off because mother anysia mind tricked him to get back to coryscant at all costs
For me, when the Mother started to turn to mist, so did Mae (more slowly), I read the scene as Sol killing the Mother to try to save Mae, thinking mother was sacrificing them both to escape the Jedi (maybe?). The rescue of Kelnacca I read as psychic feedback that killed the sisters when Indara broke their hold on him. Not a deliberate attack against them, but the result of the rescue of the Wookiee.
May get flamed for this. But I don't think the women fainted and died in the fire. I felt that Indara straight up killed them. That's why she was so emotional at the end, I felt it was: "look at what you made me do" sort of anger.
I took Torbin's impulsiveness after his possession by the Mother to be that possession is not something you just shake off - it always with you, like PTSD. Torbin is definitely overcome by PTSD in this series.
The Wookie was never the same after either, turning into a hermit and doing witchy stuff.
Regarding Mae and Osha's mother, it might have worked better if she used her powers to possess Kelnacca in such a way that Sol and Indara's efforts to stop Kelnacca led to the mother's death.
Nah.. Sol killing her is better storytelling. Much more interesting having it be clearly Sol’s doing. I wouldn’t want muddying the waters with Indara being partially responsible.
when Mother was doing her smoke move, I think she was going to check on what May was warning about, and the smoke mode would make her able to check faster - as the reason she was going into smoke mode. Sol happened to catch her mid-transition when she was vulnerable
still seems like a strange thing to do.
16:05 (The Mother Black Mist)
i sort of assumed she was trying to do some kind mist force push people apart and get some distance between two sides and preventing them from slashing each other. But Sol stabbed her before she could complete whatever that was.
and i think from the 2nd Mother doing the mist thing it looks like it went into some form of possession thing.
so that makes me think that maybe Mother #1 was going to Mind Mist both the aggressors to at least get them to stop and go into that weird mind space that Torbin was in earlier or something.
I don't think i found it as dumb as you did. But I think i was headcanon writing as the thing went along to sort of have a mental explanation for what I was seeing and being able to understand and stuff even though it wasn't clearly said.
From the overall context, and me thinking about Force Essence Transfer for weeks already, I knew what it was on first viewing. Mother Aniseya was using Force Essence Transfer to permanently take over Mae's body. With Mae's greater Force power, Aniseya would be able to take on the Jedi.
Aniseya's mist was moving toward Mae. Koril's mist was moving toward Kelnacca.
it's still kind of dumb cos it takes a relatively long time and seemingly leaves her _extremely_ vulnerable, right as she's standing right next to an armed jedi who doesn't know what exactly it is she's attempting to do
@@mel-burnesalso they were all talking in a high stress and tense moment and you think black smoke demon is the correct move to defuse the situation to help the girls. Like she could have stand back or trust me as I’m trust osha to you and turn but no sudden demon smoke
@@mel-burnes Yeah, I went back and watched it and by the time Sol stabs here she's basically all shadows and darkness, anyway. Especially when you see them transport later it makes it feel incredibly contrived and that she should have been able to teleport without getting stabbed.
I read Torbin's strong desire to go back to Coruscent as more of home sickness and general anxiety. At that age, it was painful for me to go on extended trips, and he has been away from home for months, living in the woods, away from all of the basic comforts of city life that he has known since he was maybe 4 years old. I totally get the impulsiveness when you feel trapped in a situation like that. I've seen people exactly like him
Huh... that was interesting.
This episode was a 10 out of 10 . I’m more of a Star Trek fan than Star Wars . Star
Wars is generally nothing but action . But this series was awesome. We need a season 2 and yea they need to put out all episodes at once .
The more I thought about it, the more I enjoyed it! I like that there's no single character you can point a finger at and call the baddie. I feel bad for Kelnacca, though - to my memory, he's the only Jedi who didn't really do anything wrong but he still lived with the guilt of what they all did
To be honest this episode was quite underwhelming. The revelations are both the most predictable and not enough to be interesting.
Tropes abound for sure. I was really hoping for an actual mystery and twist; the most surprising thing in this was that Mae did actually start the fire. Really disappointed, I feel like there was so much potential with some good actors, but this feels bland and flat to me.
18:20
I think i was ok with this.
i don't think it killed the witches, but it probably did take a lot out of them. I'm not sure what what mental mirrors or fortitude a Jedi Knight's mind has over a regular Padawan's mind. (I'm not sure of the Wookie was a knight or a master) But I assume the wookie could do way more stuff and was the equivalent of a Jedi Tank in comparison to Torbin. And the witches needed someone who could do a lot of damage, so they took control of the wookie. And it probably needed a full group to possess and control him that it would need far more than the 2nd in Command Mother. Whom I assume would've been a pretty high Spin-off Force user for whatever aspect of the force they use. (I think they called it The Weave, right? It's been a while.) And maybe to use The Weave and do the Mind Thing, maybe you need a bunch of users to back you up to take on more fortified jedi minds or something.
this is what i think my mind is sort of guessing at and making up as far as how I think it could've worked.
Yes indeed & Sol reacted just as any Jedi would've done if unfamiliar power starts forming at melee range 😐 If only Aniseya (played by talented Jodie) would've first said that "hey hang on, i'll release her as she wants & you go your Merry Way" 😑 Seeing Torbin deflecting arrows like a Champ was very nice. Another if only: Kelnacca hadn't had disgraceful death to Sitting posture on a chair, but fought against Qimir with his Jedi allies 🤔 Qimir would've lost even with Cortosis on his armor ✅ I streamed in a dark room on last night via D+ & had a good wind-down after day's activities 🙂
They subtly explain why Torbin went off when he gets possessed. He was born on a mining backwater, and he is back stuck on a planet that is the same when he is supposed to be a Jedi. It maybe wasn't obvious enough.
New headcanon is that the high council jedi let padawans do a Rumspringa and do crazy stuff like have monogamous relationships and own their own studio apartment.
This episode keeps reminding me of Obi-Wan’s line in Empire “what I told you was true from a certain point of view. You’ll find most of the truths we cling to depend on our own point of view.”
I also reflect on a line from Yoda, I think from Ep2, about the prophecy of the one and how they will bring balance to the force. Yoda’s line was something to the effect of Prophecies can be difficult to interpret correctly. I know that one is not spot on forgive me. I think and feel this series is showcasing that yes the force was out of balance but not to the bad rather to the good. Balance is just that an equal measure of both light and dark but here in this time things seem to be unbalanced in the favor of the light side and is showing how corruption and deception remain even among those we perceive to be good. This idea was also touched upon in clone wars with the force beings of the father daughter and son. And also in rebels with the grey force wielders who were not good nor bad but lived happily in the middle. It’s also a bit akin to what is going on in our world where corruption is undermining our police forces. The state is stepping in to “save the children” at the cost of the rights of the individuals freedom to live how they wish and follow their own path.
Its all an interesting point of view and right now, aside from all the killing, I can clearly see the point of Smiley in that he just wants to do his own thing with out someone else telling him what is right and what is wrong.
i also find it interesting that the witches' tattoo designs somewhat resemble the yin yang symbol aka the symbol of balance. from my understanding they use the light and the dark side both, not really differentiating. they're way more committed to the balance than any of the jedi lol
The floor catching fire makes total sense because it's the kerosene in the lamp that's burning on the floor, not the stone
I luuuuuuved this episode. I luv Sol but I knew he was going to be troubled from the start….but his weakness to attachment and really messed things up here. I can’t wait for the finale
I was more intrigued this time around. And Abigail Thorn being more visible in front of the camera and getting a line or two was an absolute bonus. I also award them extra points for showing a Wookie lightsaber fight. Ridiculously entertaining. 😂 Definitely glad we got to see a little more Carrie Anne Moss as well.
Sol wanted a padawan so much that he left Mae to die, failed Osha (she left the Jedi) and got Jeckie killed - the force knew what it was doing when it denied him a padawan
There was also a ship firing on the witches place, so it wasn't just May's fire
i'm behind in the episodes, but the fire also spread fast because of all the oil lamps everywhere. Mai used one to light the book with one. And I also feel that the episodes were too short for a good mystery.
Until I watched this episode I assumed the coven faked the destruction of their home, to make the Jedi go away and have zero reason to return. I didn't think an entire group of skilled witches could be killed that easily. I'm still not 100% convinced they're all dead.
It was about time that we learned everything that had gone down, and in many ways, for me, it didn’t disappoint.
Frankly, I was happy you see that May was not the evil killing jealous angry kid the initial story showed her to be. She was about to lose her sister and she acted rashly, mostly intending to lock Osha in her room and burning the book. It was purely an accident.
The end result of Sool getting what he wanted, based on his feeling, came off to me as cops covering for each other. Your explanation of it and Indarah explaining it makes sense, but for as much as I thought it was going to be all showing up to kidnap children despite having no legal authority, in some ways what we got felt worse, way worse.
Osha lost her family, he friends, her sister, all because some Jedi wanted her. When Osha, or if, finds out the truth, if she doesn’t try to kill Sool herself, I’ll be frigging surprised as heck.
Also, a Jedi Wookie is fucking scary. They can already pull your arms off, but one who can force pull you into arm-ripping range is doubly scary.
Why didn't the jedi know the seven weeks that they were there that within walking distance there was a huge stone structure on top of a mountain full with people?
If Sol's bond was so strong with Osha, how couldn't he tell it was Mae on the ship with him?
So Sol is to blame, if he only listen to Indara things would've different outcome.
I really love to see a Wookie (Kelnacca) with a lightsaber, most epecially the lightsaber fight. It's my favorite part of this episode.
It's sad that this will be the last time will see Indara and Kelnacca. I really like to know more of them.
I just went in assuming that because of his inexperience and lack of patience it wasn't just simple boredom, the entire Seven Week experience on that planet was more intensely unpleasant for Torbin. And then to cap it off Force-Witches Crawling In His Mind! Of course he wants to get off that thrice-damned cursed haunted hell-planet.
concerning the death of the covent I assumed they were all ... smokefying their consciousness, their souls or something and transfered them into the wookie Jedi's body, so they can control him.
and when Trinity Jedi cleared his mind of their influence, they were unable to return to their bodies, and thus collapsed or even died in that moment.
it's like leaving your house and walking 50 miles to enter someone elses house, but then you are suddenly thrown out and cannot find the way back to yours so to speak ...
at the end of the day I think you're right, it's just a convenient way to have them all die without having the jedi actually murder them explicitly.
but anyway, it was engaging af for me.
Torbin left so suddenly not because he was just a bored teenager. He wanted to be important, he wanted to do something, he wanted to make the jedi proud of him and prove himself. The same themes and structures apply to yord constantly trying to amount to something with blind obedience. Not being good enough is a theme across many characters in the show. the jedi constantly deny the humanity of their students and drive them to their ends (anakin).
I think the mother went to mist form to stop the two from fighting and stop the situation with her mind control (her hands reached for the two that were about to fight), which is shown right after with the other mother using the power to control minds.
The show doesn't really feel like it was withholding mysteries to drag out the plot or for the point of just keeping us on the edge of our seat. I think some of the slow pacing is totally present in some moments that you presented in previous videos, but i fear you are missing a lot of the story waiting for mysteries to be unveiled. The series shows us the mysteries before they happen everytime through reading the characters themselves. So many motivations are explored in the "frustrating" episodes that paint the picture for how everything will play out like in ep4. I think it feels like bad pacing because learning about the characters is what is advancing the plot, which is happening constantly. The dark force user showing up at the end of ep4 is the reveal that Qimir is him, by revealing the character's motivations throughout the episode. The show wasn't withholding the mystery of who the dark user was. Notice how in ep5 Qimir getting his mask knocked off isn't pointing towards his identity, but rather his disturbing motivations for risking himself. He's trying to kill Mae the whole fight, but then reveals after the mask is off that it's Osha he really wants.
Hopefully that shows my viewpoint, I'm not just trying to be contrarian to the criticisms. I think people miss some of this because some of the scenes weren't as strong as they should be.
pls let me know what you think.
This episode was kind of a mixed bag for me. A lot of stuff happening that doesn't make sense. The other mom getting amped to the point of not really thinking. The leader trying to transform and getting stabbed. I do like that Moss was actually the voice of reason. It makes me wonder who the Stranger is though.
I liked the episode as well and agree with your criticisms. I liked the parallels between the two witch moms and Sol/Indara. The tragedy of the episode is if everyone just sat down and talked it out, there would have been no need for any conflict, but the fire adds a ticking clock element that makes that all impossible. I'm really hoping the series sticks the landing because hoo boy this has been a frustrating show to watch.
Stray thoughts:
-Can anyone blame Torbin for wanting to go home? Seven weeks of collecting moss would make anyone desperate to leave lmao
-Wait so they were there for SEVEN WEEKS and are JUST NOW noticing this giant mining facility nearby their camp?
-This sure would have been a different episode if Indara just once told Sol "fuck you I'm the master, I'm charge, we do what I say."
-huh, so that little fire did in fact burn down the whole place. I kind of assumed that the Jedi fighting the witches would have caused the destruction. Okay.
-turning into a scary ghost is probably not the best way to diffuse a tense situation
-Abi gets another line, yay!
-I was thinking that the witches would lose control of the Wookie and he'd go on a rampage, killing them all. Them just...uhhh...fainting sure is a choice.
-"Your noble intentions will be the death of us all" I see what you did there
Take care Jessie, talk to you soon
🎋⚔🔥💖🌈🏳⚧
Jedi hubris will always be their downfall.
It was nice to get a fuller explanation of what we only saw Osha's view of before.
I was disappointed that Indara acquiesced to the desires of her underlings. Who's the master here?
For the Jedi famously eschewing desires, fears and emotional attachments, they do seem to lead with these qualities an awful lot.
I'm still unclear why the structure began to collapse unless it's a side-effect of the exhausted witches collapsing after they were "cast out" of the Wookie.
I mean there were explosions and everything. I had to watch closely to make sure the Jedi ship wasn't actually firing on the place.
I lived in Springfield, Missouri for fourteen years. Southwest MO is a unique area of the state where they actually pronounce Missouri "Missouri."
Abigail Thorne was the best part
As someone that just caught up at ep 7. Ya, the pacing is actually really good. There is a lot of neat changes in dialogue as well that really help show the different perspectives, and overall everything just kinda works for the series from what I've seen. Like I know you're saying it's kinda building a mystery, but it never really felt like that to me. To me this is building a narrative to Osha turning into the Acolyte with the way everyone in her life betrays her. Like a lot of what the Acolyte needs to land for me is simply Osha turning, and I rather this be kept to a one season as they could use Osha for other star wars stuff as the baddie. Plus like, being totally disconnected to the hillbilly feud (Ep1 - 9) really brings life into the universe again.
Te: Torbin’s motivation…
They really should have had him (maybe they did?) latch onto the idea of the vergence and start going on about how it was so important and they had to do anything to figure it out!
…
This mythical thing you just found out about? Sure you don’t have another motivation buddy?
I do feel that was the set up but it just needed a few more lines to pay it off
I gotta say, I wasn't expecting so much gray, also we still don't know how the witches died, was it strain from the psychic fight over Cal's mind??? Did the Zabrak kill them???
I wonder how much of Sol's need for a padawan is about suppressing parental desires in Jedi? What do you think?
When a series would have been better as a binge, I wonder if it should have been a movie.
Kelnacca wearing clothes just looks goofy. I appreciate Wookies might wear aprons in certain situations, such as if there's sparks etc, but it's kinda distracting.
They should've given Torbin a girlfriend or boyfriend. Just a line in the vision "someone is wanting for you on Couscent" and people would've been on board with his rash motivation.
Jedi do and can have romantic partners especially in the high republic era they just aren't supposed to form an attachment that compromises them
The mist thing made me think of the teleporting the witch character did in Jedi Survivor, which I think are like mini hyperspace jumps. Maybe not the exact same thing, but their magik might look spooky but not always some threat like I think Sol took it as.
can we talk about the episode titles??? I enjoy the duality of the titles, (many of which are in this/format,) especially this episode's title "choice" vs the first flashback "destiny"
If you guys want to, I encourage you leaving a honest review of the episode on imdb where this show is being constantly being reviewed bombed. This episode, before airing, had 3/10 and around 100 votes.
Thanks, I just left a honest review on the site (0)10)
@@GilesMcRiker if that's your "honest" opinion than be it.
Pacing is definitely an issue. I'm planning on rewatching all the episodes next week when the finale drops, and see if it works better that way.
I also liked this episode, and its what a proper flashback episode should be. And it makes the 1st one redundant, you could have accomplished its goals by having characters have specific flashbacks during the other episodes. Its a bit of a trope, but it would have worked better, imo, showing how each character experienced what happened before we got this episode and tied it all together.
I also think that Indara's motives weren't all so "pure". She knew Sol was compromised because of his feelings toward the twins, and she send him after Torbin? She should have gone after her padawan herself, Sol was more likely than not to cause a confrontation, and that's exactly what happened.
8:20 Well.. yes and no. regular tattoos... yes. absolutely true. But... this wasn't and that's exactly what Seoul saw. He SAW Mae get branded with the Force.
That's the problem: we got to stop with this grading on a handicap. It was always bad if these conflicting concepts were an issue (they were always there). It is again another show supported for the wrong reasons, leading us into the same issues and then playing coy about why this keeps happening.
At this point, you get what you asked for and realize it's not good, and being well-intentioned is not enough.
At this point, it's time to be honest so we can finally course-correct. We have to be able to be honest about the entertainment.
This entire thing is good simply because it's Disney, progressive, or has representation, is a concept that is ruining great IP.
We can't keep weaponizing nostalgia to push the agenda of tomorrow. We can't keep holding it hostage; however, we think it is good or important.
it was the lamp liquid that caught fire
Glad to have your commentary. This episode made me think which I like. I agree, on a first viewing, there were so many twists and turns some of them felt clunky or at least, I felt like I missed a ton of what must have happened for such a turn. I want to compare it with some of the detective noir where people are thinking or acting on weird assumptions. The moment when Sol and Indara find themselves fighting and slowly come to their better selves really rang home. Both of them want to be their better selves but it didn't happen just then. That rings true for me despite the larger story being a little bit too complicated to be shown convincingly. But, yeah, I can believe that even "good" Jedi lose their compass and find loosed or conflicting emotions in charge of their actions. That's very human if you will, or very sentient being for the non-humans. I also thought of Galadriel in Lord of the Rings. We don't get to see Boromir's experience of Galadriel confronting him with his hidden motives but I bet it was new and very terrifying for him. Galadriel might have turned to good at some point but its also clear Galadriel is rough often exerting dominating control. So is the Mother, Aniseya good or evil? Its ambiguous to me. What I think happened is that Mai went Valdemort first, then Aniseya went Valdemort in order to contain Mai's bad conduct. But since Mai entered the scene with pleas of help Sol assumed Mai was Osha and Aniseya was attacking Osha.
I do think a lot went wrong with Korii telling Mai to stop Osha on Mai's own ideas, which soon went to arson. And I think controlling people is very sus. The episode made me so mad at both Jedi and Witchery which I didn't expect. Reform of all the child-recruitment is looking very sus to me. What is Broom Boy doing for his own Force-attunement programme? I'm sure it has to be better than this. I agree, children and dangerous matches or whatever are bad judgment, Sol offering a lightsaber or Obi-Wan offering Luke a saber, like it was an old bowling trophy it was their time to inherit, there is something not sensible. Lucas didn't invent laser cutters, I'm pretty sure, it was just that previous sci-fi was more realist in portraying inevitable tragic accidents using them. There is the classic The Green Millennium by Fritz Leiber which I recommend tracking down because mobsters are using laser cutters that shoot out both directions for, like 100 yards, and it falls to an alien cat to calm everyone down with some righteous purrs, but not before a lot of collateral death. None of that level of death-dealing is safe around children and parents should have made other life choices to avoid what was probably inevitable given recklessness of encapsulated sentient beings.
Good points. I did enjoy the episode and was happy we finally got some answers! WOW Sol! I do agree about the pacing, the way they could have gone would have been better. I do appreciate the ideas, it's just the execution at times could be improved. Still good episode
Yeah the biggest issue with the episode is definitely the lack of stakes for Torbin. He wants to go home... okay, what for? He's on this beautiful, temperate planet, but it's a little boring. Okay well camping is not for everyone, so? What awaits him on Coruscant that he deems so important that he wants to foolishly rush into a situation like that? Being moderately bored is just not good motivation.
He calls Coruscant 'Home', implying he's a native. Coruscant is basically a planet-sized city. It can sometimes be tough for people accustomed mostly to an urban way of life to find anything rewarding in 'roughing it'. But did we all forget that the Torbin we see desperately grasping at any straw that leads to 'OFF THIS PLANET', (Like, Torbin is clearly in a disturbed frame of mind when he mounts that speeder-bike and takes off) had just had his Mind Invaded yesterday?
Good episode. It should've been the third episode. I'm curious on how they're going wrap things up in the finale.
I think being stuck on a planet for 7 weeks is enough justification for Tobin wanting to leave. Especially if he grew up in a metropolis and he is stuck camping for days on end.
Tobin's log: it's day 49 on Brendok. I looked at some trees. Again. Later I pointed a scanner at some moss, the scan confirmed it was moss.
@@FS_Scott 😂
I’ll have to pass on this one as well
Same. Yet, I'm so ready for season two of "Andor."
@@DonDonP1 Ditto!!! I honestly think Andor was a favorite series so far
I enjoyed this episode, but there was very little character development leading to what happened? Did Sol loose a Padawan? Why did Tarbin want to get home so badly? There was nothing to lay that ground work.
Gosh...honestly outside of the fight scene which was mostly great almost none of it worked for me. The negatives you mentioned were kind of too much for me. Like, honestly, whoever decided Sol should creep around and commit breaking and entering to follow a child should at least think about the optics of it. The title of the episode should have been called CHOICES instead of just choice, because nearly the entire episode EVERY character made worse decisions than Mae did when burning the book. Honestly, they should have had the High Council pressuring the Jedi to find out more about the child/children, and have these Jedi be reluctant to do so but do it anyway, leading to all the problems happening in a similar manner. If the Sisters had "sensed" the reluctance of Sol and the Jedi and assumed it was malice when in reality it was reluctance I think it could have worked.
The fight scene was dope, though. More Wookie Force Users.
The show needed to make Mae unsympathetic until the big reveal was made. We needed to be suckered into the idea that the Jedi were right and that she was just hateful and possessed of the darkside, only to discover that she had very good reasons.
Why didn't Sol lift the kids instead of trying to hold the bridge?
While I like this episode more than I expected (with some highlights in it), I'm a bit more mixed. I will defend the Torbin motive for things as not just "teen who doesn't want to be there" but actually "kid who's legitimately scared of what happened to him and the people that did it so he wants to run away", even if it leads him to counterintuitively go where the people are because that seems to be the objective. While I generally liked Mother Aniseya, I found her "tempting" of Torbin both well done visually, etc., but also narratively weak...it seems like a foolish move for her to make if she wasn't planning to do something with that, more antagonizing the other Jedi than anything else, which seems to go against her stated objectives.
The biggest problem for me is the big conflict. The escalation worked for me, even Torbin & Sol storming in (Sol trying to be the "reasonable" one who just wants people to be safe, Torbin the headstrong one, which is likely why he turned to meditation and took the poison) but the ignition point didn't click. Mae rushing in to yell about the fire is fine, it's what happens next that seems nonsensical: Aniseya starts to go incorporeal (I guess) and a similar effect is coming off of Mae...is that because Aniseya was going to possess her (an idea that seems ridiculously stupid both in character and out) or because she was going to fly over to where Osha is to save her? If the latter's why, then why the effect on Mae? Mirroring? Hopefully that's clarified. Would've been nice if Sol had voiced an "I'm sorry" to Aniseya as she was dying (even "I'm sorry, I had to protect Osha"), but I don't blame the writers for that. The reaction from there is fine, the action decent (I especially liked Sol's not-fight with the other Mother). The other giant problem I had is the apparent death of the other members of the coven...I guess they were just channeling too much of their life force to facilitate the possession of the Wookiee, so the disruption just killed them? Was very weakly laid out, didn't make sense. The finale might fix that for me, but this episode left me in a bad place for it.
Was nice to see Abigail Thorn more, even if her character remains slightly more than an extra (I guess a recognizable extra with a couple lines) - at least this time I could tell it was her the whole time she was on screen, she wasn't hidden by camera distance combined with (lack of) lighting.
Oh, and addressing a criticism mentioned in this video and the last one: I think the idea that Qimir's philosophy was a let down after his "you brought the child to the danger" comment is a little silly. It wasn't a line of deep philosophy, it was a basic (even crass) line meant to justify/twist the knife, even if it highlights a deeper philosophical point about the Jedi, that wasn't what he was doing.
Yes, pacing's a big problem with this show. I think we needed at least 2 more episodes, if not a total of 12/13, to better build characters, delve into philosophy and mystery, etc. This has felt so rushed and so a lot of things very surface level or Cliff Notes-style.
There was definitely a lot to like about this episode, but not letting us understand intuitively the nature of the inciting incident for the whole series is an unforgiveable misstep. It doesn't have to ruin the season or anything, in and of itself, but given the other deficiencies, it really feels like the worst possible place to fall on your face at. Nailing the Jedi perspective of the flashback could have really redeemed the season, but as it is now, it's just OK IMO.
I think ultimately, my biggest gripe with this show is that I have yet to really attach myself to any character and their journey. That's made even worse by the fact this show is essentially an ensemble series where we have been obviously meant to follow multiple characters and their journies. In that same vein, I think this episode did one other thing really wrong; it disconnected the reveal of what happened from the story in present day. We learn yes, but we don't get to view this reveal through the lens of any characters whatsoever in the show at all. We don't get to see how Sol feels about re-telling it or how May and/or Osha might feel about learning it when ideally, we should be seeing how multiple characters feel about it, not zero. So while this episode did some interesting things in recontextualizing the flashback, it also kinda wasted its energy by just perfunctorily explaining what happened without offering an in-universe perspective; it's more or less bland visual exposition. Perhaps a better show could have made that a bold and interesting choice, but I don't think this show is capable of that.
May the force be with you
Thank you for clearly articulating exactly what I was feeling!
Does anyone think in all the flashbacks that we’ve seen Qimir?
Hmm curious as well
Steve the Jedi gets to have all the fun
Maybe Torbin was late for Jedi Rumspringa.
I was struck by how the story of this whole series was caused by a comedy of errors. Mae caused a big fire by burning a book. (I thought the floor caught fire because of oil from the lamp.) Mother Coral ignored Mae because she was getting ready to attack the Jedi, so the fire spread. Inara knocked out all the Sisters trying to save her friend. The Jedi rushed to the temple because Torbin was late for Rumspringa. Sol kept making bad decisions because he had an emotional connection with a girl he had seen for a total of 5 minutes, which has creepy vibes. If this were Criminal Minds, he'd be the unsub. Every character did something stupid which set everything in motion.
Yeah, I think this show would work best as an ATLA-style, semi-serialised show. If these plot beats were spread out as they are, but with “filler” episodes in between giving us a chance to really understand and develop the characters so we care about them, I think it could really be a beautiful work. As is, I always feel like I’m missing big sections of the series.
I'm glad it finally had a good episode. If they had more of those, I might still be watching this show. Disney+ is making it so hard to be a Star Wars fan.
This is why they needed Osha, she would have made sure that fire safety standards were enforced.
I wonder if part of the twins mother "essence" was still inside the wookie.
I think the acolyte would have been better with fewer episodes, it would have been tighter
trying to figure out how that Looks Like Stone mine fortress managed to burn at all???????????????????
(Funny the perception I see as though it's 'Dark Side' of Sol to say 'Be honest about what you want,' ...yes, Jedi and Witches both actually tend to share that ethos, Jedi need to be honest about what they want often so they can get *past* it which I think Indara recognizes, and Aniseya similarly recognizes that Osha must be honest about her own desire and see her path through to do *their* thing. (The 'witches' do seem familiar to me as an actual Pagan person that recognizes both a lot of that community and how some might see things, particularly 'law enforcement' primed to believe certain prejudices.)
Funny enough everyone seems to be struggling to be honest here, or being asked to be honest, but there are differing demands of discipline and duty and fear on both sides here as well. I don't really know what the witches were doing but I presume it was not for ill if it revitalized a darn planet and brought life back.
Whatever spooky thing Aniseya was trying to do, it was probably actually also trying to somehow call a time-out somehow. Or just pure 'protect my family' reaction, I dunno. (I am assuming all those sisters died from the strain of conrolling a Wookie Jedi that way and then having that connection busted. )
(Also Indara said to sell the truth.... from a certain point of view.)
I couldn't agree with you more. I really liked this episode, but it just highlighted how the rest of the show to this point has felt like such a waste of time
Particularly your description of how the show hasn't spent the time developing the ideas it has, just teasing the contents of this episode. I think you're spot on about that
When Mother Aniseya threw her arms out in a fit of passion (before turning to mist) I was expecting a powerful force push against both her partner Mother Koril and the Jedi to separate them, an attempt to forcibly de-escalate the situation by enforcing her own (selfless/compassionate) will on everyone before the more selfish wills of Sol and Koril (who both wish to control the twins without regards to their independent feelings) ruined everyone's futures. When Mother Aniseya dispersed to mist we see Mae also getting misty, so I then thought that it was teleportation to save herself and the children, leaving the other mother and militants who defied her nonviolence order to die as a consequence of their own actions (manipulating Mae, escalating violence) if she was supposed to be viewed in a sympathetic light, or sacrificing the entire coven, innocents included, to save the children (referencing her line about choosing the emotions of being a mother over the societal responsibility of being Coven Mother) if she is intended to more morally nuanced.
My memory is short-lived, so perhaps Mother Koril was shown to be definitively dead in a prior episode, but in this one, after dispersing to mist Koril was not shown to be among the witches who possessed Kelnacca (and consequently died), so I think that teleportation is accurate and that Mother Koril will be revealed to be alive in a later season.
One potential way to handle the deaths of the witches possessing Kelnacca more gracefully would be having the witches initially remain aware of their surroundings as Mother Aniseya was when she possessed Torbin (no swaying, white eyes), but be forced to focus on the possession with increasing intensity throughout the battle (dark eyes, swaying), thus dissociating with their surroundings. Perhaps a minor increase when Sol attempts to connect with or disarms Kelnacca and a series of progressive increases during the mental exchange with Jedi Master Indara. Throughout the fight, the fire would creep into the background of the witches' room, initially hidden and extinguishable but becoming obvious and blocking the exit at a point when the witches are too deep in their possession to notice it happen. When Master Indara breaks the force possession, the witches awaken, panic, and attempt to escape the room but die of suffocation, ceiling collapse, and/or explosion before they can.