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Elden Ring and the Gatekeeping Myth
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- This commentary will discuss the recent discourse surrounding Elden Ring and the Souls community. The Souls Community has garnered a reputation for being gatekeepers and elitists with a "Get Good" mindset which, in turn, has potentially turned off a lot of players from giving these games a try.
This video will act as a defense of the Souls community and From Software's design philosophies and will attempt to shed a light on the true nature of these games and their fans. While the fanbase is not perfect, I think anyone who comes in with an open mind will find most of the Soulsbourne fanbase to be welcoming, helpful, collaborative, and extremely passionate.
Topics include the "git gud" narrative, backseat gaming, accessibility, easy modes, game difficulty modifiers, the click moment, and the influence of "Letmesoloher", a well known Elden Ring player who utilizes the summoning system to help players overcome Malenia, on of the hardest bosses in the game. This character has inspired lore videos, fan art, and various articles that were highlighted in this video.
Elden Ring is developed by Fromsoft and published by Bandai Namco. It is available on Microsoft's Xbox One, Series X, Series S, Sony's Ps5, Ps4, and PC via Steam.
Gameplay is of Elden Ring with some misc clips from a few other titles.
This video essay was written and recorded by Favyn. Please subscribe for more game analysis, critiques, reviews, impressions, video essays, and commentaries and feel free to join the discussion in the comments below.
Video was edited by FoxyDubz, please check out his channel here: / foxygrandpa410
Thumbnail is by Chubby and his work is here: www.behance.ne...
References:
Angry Joe's Elden Ring Review: • Elden Ring - Angry Review
Noah Caldwell Gervais's Dark Souls Trilogy Retrospective Video Essay: • I Beat the Dark Souls ...
Let me solo her video: • Let me solo her. 3rd s...
Thank you for watching!
I started playing the souls games with demons souls. The git gud mantra I think came about during dark souls 1, and with the much smaller souls community at the time, people were looking for tips and tricks to help them get through the game. But no matter how many tips and tricks you could take advantage of, at the end of the day you had to git gud. You had to learn how to play the game. You can't farm and button mash your way through the game. You need to learn the systems and practice and get better as you learn. That was the original sentiment behind git gud. It may have morphed into gatekeeping over a decade but for the OGs it's always a signature of what the games need you to do in order to get through it.
Good point. I think when you've already reached that click moment I talked about get good takes on a whole new meaning.
@Zack Keogh I'm gonna repost a comment I made about a month ago on another video about "git gud," though I am gonna reword some things.
I'm a latecomer to the Soulsborne series. I only started playing DS3 right around the time Bloodborne was dropping, and I only went back and actually completed my first game of DS3 in late 2020/early 2021 when I heard Elden Ring was coming out. It took me two weeks of in-game time to beat it, and quite literally most of that was me sucking ass against the Soul of Cinder. I beat every other boss in ten tries or less (except the Twins, who took like thirty), but the Soul of Cinder took me forever, and I ended up having to farm up Embers numerous times, to the point I got sick of the game again, and then restarted and beat Dad of War, and then came back, farmed some more Embers and levels, and finally beat the SoC at around level 110 or so. I meant to restart and beat Bloodborne, but I quite honestly couldn't bring myself to attempt it because I was worried I wouldn't be finished before Elden Ring dropped.
As for Elden Ring itself? I can finally say that I feel like I've gotten good. I'm already level 160, and while the Fire Giant was difficult, I managed to struggle through. After that, I ran around and finished some catacombs and other things I'd missed previously, and just yesterday I beat Godskin Duo first try, with my Spirit Summon barely doing anything beyond splitting their attention. The dragon sentinel on the bridge is giving me trouble now, though. I've almost beaten it twice, but I keep getting greedy and not letting the poison do its job.
And a large part of that is that I'm actually experiencing the community at its most active, and it's wonderful. And that's how I realized "Git gud" isn't something the Soulsborne community tells newcomers. It's what they say to people who bitch and moan and won't stop complaining about every little thing, while also resisting any and every offer of help and camaraderie. Because if you don't want help against a boss, if you won't read a guide or listen to a tips video, if you won't even attempt to understand the controls or how to set up even a basic Quality build (which is something I didn't know existed until I started my second DS3 playthrough), then quite literally, the only thing someone can do is tell you to git gud.
But that’s a lot of games not just soulsborn games most games you have to get good. soulsborn fans just try to make the biggest deal out of the games. I’ll just say there is a lot harder games then soulsborn games to play souls is really only difficult cause it doesn’t tell you anything so either you figure it out or you watch or read online on how to do something which can be annoying for people to go and look at something online and I would say it would take you out of the game which no game should ever do in my opinion yet some people like this because you can interact with the community. Once again soulsborn game are not the most difficult game it’s just that a some souls fans come off a bit arrogant in my opinion that pushes other people away if you truly want people to experience games you all love you should have a different Moto like “if you fail try again”
Doesn’t come off as arrogant now does it
@@tyeekessaris4682 It just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Thanks for watching this video!
So obviously I speak very highly of these games, but I do want to point out that they are NOT perfect. And even beyond that "click moment" there are discussions to be had about how these games can improve and get better...especially Elden Ring.
But it's hard to discuss those types of things with people. Stuff like... how spirit summons might negatively impact the game by bypassing too much of an encounter....without first knowing why difficulty is important in the first place. And then when the discussion of how to add new difficulty modifiers comes up, it's important to have an understanding of how the game works to know what solutions would fit best (expanded kindling, environmental aids etc)
Just wanted to say this because obviously I presented my thoughts from the standpoint that these are very special games....and they are. But I also want to encourage discussions on how they can improve within this lense I spoke of throughout the video.
Imagine a game developer protecting the elements that make their game unique, rather than trying to create a watered down version of every other game in an attempt to appeal to a broader audience...
I left a comment on the essay explaining that “gitting gud” is exactly what he spent a large portion of the video describing. That learning how to use all of the mechanics and systems the games offer to succeed is “gitting gud.”
The only time I ever see it used dismissively, and rightfully so, is when people who don’t play these games or quit early whine about wanting an easy mode.
Same, never seen it used as an offense by a actual Souls player.
In my experience it usually means that there is no secret way out, you're not doing anything wrong, you're doing what you are supposed to be doing, you just have to execute it better. You need to, quite literally, get good, that's all.
I have seen some people saying that to others about summons, like it's an easy mode. But most of the times I've seen that it's between 2 fans and typically in jest
No shot does getting good means using all the systems including stuff like magic, summons, and Spirit ashes.
Getting good is more about learning the boss's move sets and how to dodge or navigate around them properly.
I see it used dismissively nonstop becaase people are scum. I'm not saying the souls community is scum. PEOPLE are scum. and therefore the souls community is no exception.
"Git Gud" is not helpful. Not in the least. If you want to be helpful offer a tip on HOW one might "Git Gud" more effectively, or just be silent.
The souls community is terrible- but so are most. It doesn't mean the games are bad.
Great masterpieces of games- Awful people, like everyone is awful.
Elden Ring was my first Souls game and I have problems with it like any other game. Yet, the feeling of killing Margit after two billion tries was absolutely awe-inspiring, I celebrated it more than any Liverpool goal scored this season 😂 truly memorable. This isn't my style of game but wow, what a game, the intimidation that I felt at the start has evaporated.
Ah yes Margit. I tried many many things, from quickstep dagger to wild strikes greatsword.
I eventually gave up and went Golden Halberd. I studied his movement patterns and found openings large enough to smash his face in with a charged heavy. I died probably 10-15 more times but i eventually smashed his head in.
Shit felt good.
Elden ring wasn't my first (my first was DS3 then I went back and played the others) but it is by far my favorite and the only one I can play nearly nonstop and have fun.
The craziest thing about all this is that it's also the Souls community accusing itself of being toxic, not just journalists. There's plenty of discussion from personalities and fans about how terrible the community is. Personalities and fans, the people who are LITERALLY THE COMMUNITY IN QUESTION. It's honestly comparable to the self-gaslighting that happened with Halo: Infinite's multiplayer launch
"Trust no one, not even yourself."
-The Souls Community
The thing is, the primary perpetuators of the "Elitist Souls community" stigma aren't the bad apples, but instead the people who refuse to engage with the game and its mechanics how they are now. It could be for many reasons, their ego, their self-perceived level of skill, their FOMO, but whatever it is they have decided to build their own gate to keep themselves in it, and created a elitist boogeyman on the other side. The whole thing about "easy mode" is summed up perfectly here, the people asking for it haven't engaged with all the mechanics and don't know what they're talking about.
Also, a bit of a long off-topic rant, but I feel like if you're someone who's played through all of FromSoft's past Souls-style games, Elden Ring unfortunately has a "click moment" that is somewhat like the Assassin's Creed example. For newcomers the "click moment" is great, they get to have a great time feeling the game's mechanics come together. For veteran players though eventually exploring the open world starts to require less careful examination as it used to in other Souls titles. You don't have to carefully engage or maneuver around every enemy group on the road or giant crab that pops out of the ground. You can often tell when something's not worth your time and just easily ride your horse past it. If you're scraping every edge of a map and find a corner without much of a special ambush there besides a few enemies, chances are the rewards are nothing more than crafting materials. It's hard to accurately describe this feeling, but I'm sure if you've played enough of these games you get a sense for what value of item you're about to receive based on how the area is designed around it. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but in most cases my predictions ended up being correct. It's just something that comes with the territory of the game being so massive, another concession of it being open world. I'm looking forward to hearing some of your criticisms of these aspects if/when you make a ER game analysis video.
( 12:06 ඞ )
I think you're right about Elden Ring almost having a "second click" for those who have thoroughly played these games and deeply understand them.
There is definitely a moment where you've seen everything and start to see stuff like enemy reuse and there's definitely stuff to improve on.
But that's usually when you compare it to previous souls games. When you compare it to other open world games it blows them out of the water.
@@FavynTube Absolutely agreed on that. Even with its flaws I'd still take Elden Ring over most other open world games. The concessions they had to make for it to be open world are well worth the experience of exploring such a vast game in my opinion.
I still very much think souls community is the most elitist community in gaming. Lots of decent people in it too but you should never in any situation tell a souls player that you are new to the series. Never openly ask veteran players for advice on a boss, because you will get hit with git gud and never get actual advice out of anyone. Made me quit the games multiple times of the years and still came back because the game git gud
favyn, love you even more than you mention NCG’s video, just shows me you expose yourself to a lot of commentary like myself, always excited to see your sub notif
I had my “click” moment against the Death Rite Bird in Caelid. He was kicking my ass and I could not figure out a good strategy to go with. Then all of a sudden it hit me and I said “Wait. Isn’t he an undead type enemy?” I whipped out my Inseparable Sword and hit him with the AOW and it took a huge chunk of his health bar. I literally hollered at the screen “Oh! I got you now!”…….and that was all she wrote.
1:43 "HAHA! Suck it Souls community i have unlocked the fabled EASY MODE on your precious butt clenching murder games! And there is NOTHING you can DO ABOUT IT!!!!!"
SOULS COMMUNITY: "Congratulations... you got gud."
This is always how I personally interpreted gitting gud, finding the ways the game allows you to bend the difficulty in your favor with the different encounters and boss fights. I mean that's why the games mechanics are even there in the first place, right?
I always viewed the souls community as a pie chart:
you have your casual enjoyers, making up a large majority of the fanbase. They aren't as vocal with their experience because it's not one of their MAJOR interests, but they still enjoy it.
then you have your lore-keepers, people who are enamored by the series multitude of stories, and characters, that they could tell you the meaning behind why a lot of the major NPC's do what they do and react the way they do during gameplay. They can tell you why bosses are where they are or why their boss music is the tone it's in.
next you have the pvp ashen undead tarnished ones, They enjoy creating builds built for killing you and your friends, (and sometimes themselves) These guys are usually what are under fire the most for their use of the Git Gud mentality since getting your booty clapped by someone who is WAY better at the game than you, then to have them either point down or tea bag your corpse would leave a bad taste in anyones mouth, but can you blame them? their blood pressure is probably sky high and full of adrenaline cuz they just pulled off a sweat sweep and their popping off.
and lastly the smallest category... The would not recommends, the people who are just a little too sensitive or impatient, or even easily overwhelmed. They pop in to see what all the hype and hub ub is about, they struggle (NOTE: you are supposed to struggle these games are about overcoming adversity through creative and skillful means) they give up. they shit on the game.
wow this is a wall of text...
Edit: grammar ( probably not all of it lol)
Yeah, but then you have the "git gud" crowd that lambasts and insults players who use magic and summons, for not "playing the game correctly". And that part of the community is the loudest, and is the reason why the community has the stigma of hating new players.
Also, you have to admit, if a new player asks for some help on something in game, and is told dissmissevly "git gud", then the only thing that player is getting from the community is that the community is a bunch of dicks.
@@SiphonRayzar I think they are the minority, a great majority of the dark souls playerbase has tutorials on how to get all the magick miracles and pyromancies and encourage them as easier ways to defeat certain enemies, or more enjoyable ways to play the game.
I have platinumed every soulsbourne game except dark souls 2 due to its weird summoning system, and I can tell you I always built hybrid, so I would get a healthy variety in combat and strategic choice, being able to heal your team or support them with magick and the like is very satisfying.
I think there was only really one dark souls game that you had to Git Gud and that was Dark souls 3's DLC, since summons would increase slave knight gales health, and cheesing him was difficult. Apart from that git gud almost feels like a joke in the soulsborne community at times at least in all the help groups I was in (Where we would help players beat all the bosses) it was used almost as a joke, since if you lost you just needed some backup or to do a little more research on what to wear or use during the fight.
I don't know maybe I am being redundant in what I'm saying but the groups I hanged out in no one meant "git gud" as playing wretch solo with bare hands for the whole game; I felt like we always meant it as we know you can do better with a little homework or help.
I'm not sure if it is a false memory but I could've swore we would joke about "gitting gud" every time we had to help someone with something like the orphan of kos.
I really do think "Git Gud" is just a thing reviewers latch onto when they don't do well against something they shouldn't have fought say the golden knight on horseback, and don't want to avoid the enemy or have to research anything about the game to do well so they just complain about "git gud" since it is a buzz word. One decent example of this is how (I think it was quantam tv) attacked the starting npc despite the npc's warnings thus getting his butt kicked and spawn killed leading to him complaining about the "git gud" thing when he reviewed it.
@@MONSTERDROID And yet, everytime I see magic being brought up, it's always brought up as the easy option for scrubs, and that by using magic, you're not playing the game correctly.
@@SiphonRayzar Idk the people you mention sound like very narrow minded individuals who want to do nothing but spam circle and r1 all day, with no thought beyond boss patterns.
My experience with the ps4 soulsborne community has thankfully been very positive outside of invaders.
I've yet to see a single video or community member who talked that way about magick outside of talks of Darkbead smurfs in DS1.
@@SiphonRayzar Since I just got back into Soulsborne again I decided to watch a few elden ring guides since it is my first time playing elden ring, and I have run into the mentality you mentioned, where the guys go and say "You cheating mage you" or "cheating the game" ect ect. It is sad to see this, Imagine you are playing bloodborne and there are no switch weapons, runes, or magic, sure it might still be playable, but would it have been viewed as being anywhere near as good as it is today? I don't understand why people think we all have to use a basic sword with no helpers to "play the game right" I don't think I would've been such a huge fan of soulsborne if there was never any magic it is the only series I feel like scratches that itch for me with the Nioh series following close second.
A lot of this seems to have shown up exclusively during elden ring from my perspective; though it is hard for me to tell for sure since playstation communities has been taken down so I can't just ask my groups anymore, I doubt I'll be able to ever meet those people I used to play with again sadly, but I would bet they would not share the "cheating" and "git gud" view.
The complaint you filed was incoherent. You acknowledged the phrase is often used dismissively then was was upset when one guy referenced it as such. I understand you are upset there are a fraction of players that supposedly intend for it to be used constructively but acting as if people aren't spouting it pretentiously on the whole is dishonest as hell.
It's the context of its use and the fact that it is ultimately not applicable.
Also... incoherent would not be the correct word here
Did you not watch the video? Sure there are people that say that pretentiously. They are a minority and who cares really. It's clear your upset someone else doesn't think it's a big deal.
Git Gud was once a joke, but it was co opted by some very toxic players and used for evil. They do not represent the Souls community at large but have seriously caused it harm with their behavior.
I'm so glad I found your video! I've been trying to explain these things here and there, but I don't think I've *ever* put it so well! I gotta save this video somewhere so I can send a link or rewatch it when I have to argue these points to someone. It's a beautiful video and you capture the exact sentiment I've always had about these games, even down to backseating WAY too hard because I wanted the other person to have fun. I still remember after weeks and maybe even months of begging I got my best friend to play DS3 for a while, and at first he played it at my place and I was desperately trying to explain dodge rolling and stamina management to him because I wanted to accelerate his "click moment" acquisition, which put him off for a while. I shut myself up, watched on in pain for a while as he helplessly flailed around, but the moment he finally got it, he immediately bought it for himself and for a while it was a game the both of us played non-stop. Those were some of the best days of my life, to be honest. Still, I couldn't manage to convince him to play DS1 (it was "too slow and clunky", cheeky little shit has no idea). He likes Bloodborne but had no money to buy it, and right now he's enjoying Elden Ring while I rot away at college, haha. Guess it'll finally be time for him to backseat MY game!
Anyway, sorry for the rant. The video just really relieved and moved me, it put to words what I always wanted to say.
Was helping a friend through just last night, had a guy invade us and wipe the floor with us, same guy invades again, exact same result, same guy invades a 3rd time, this time he follows us through the level dropping warming stones, follows us all the way to the boss door, waves and cuts his connection.
People who say "souls has a bad community", I believe those people don't really play the games, they just argue with fans on reddit, twitter, etc
As someone who's beaten all of these games within a few months of their release since the days of Demon's Souls, I can thoroughly say that the perception that new players or people who haven't played the games at all have is wildly different from reality. People encourage each other with every step of progress, sharing in their victories together, teach each other tips and trick to succeed. If there's one stereotype that rings true, it's that a lot of Souls fans love to talk about their builds and their play style and maybe show off some pictures of their characters. Someone in one of my groups on discord posted a screenshot where he was calling me out for my lame joke that I left in a message on the ground in the Roundtable Hold. There are literally hundreds of pages (maybe even thousands) of conversations to scroll through about Elden Ring on that discord, and the 1 single instance of someone saying "git gud" was to say that they can ignore it.
This idea that these elitists want other players to fail and give up just runs so counter to what most people who actually play these games are like. Even the memes are things like "Don't give up, skeleton!" and "Don't you dare go hollow!"
And then there's the issue of the way you improve. This isn't a game that demands frame perfect button timings and hard-to-execute button inputs. These games may be tougher to learn that most other games, but when you get the basic knowledge down, the more you learn stuff, the more you learn about how easy these games actually are. They may be obtuse to learn in some instances, but once you know what you're doing, they're not all that hard of games to play. Super Meat Boy? Celeste (without assists)? SMB The Lost Levels? Those are games that can be very HARD to play, no matter how much you learn about them. You need to get good to beat those. But Dark Souls or Elden Ring? I can be a scrub with a vast amount of knowledge and just casually breeze my way through the game with a greatshield with >100 stability or comet azur melting bosses in a few seconds or a high poise fast rolling tank in DS1 or a a tank in DS3 getting high damage from a raw long sword or a mage in DS3 that stays invisible and fires of spells that cause the enemies to attack each other...
So, are you saying you don't look down on players who play pyromancer or use summons?
Not if they're having fun
@@FavynTube And yet the "git gud" crowd continues to lambast players that use magic or summons.
@@SiphonRayzar I talk about it in the video.
@@FavynTube Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that the "git gud" crowd will continue to hate on players for using magic and summons. And said crowd will always be dicks that drive away new players.
People need to understand that their actions will get an equal reaction. If you go to the internet and make some rage post about a game being bad, you're gonna get sarcastic and negative responses.
What a great video. I'm glad this was recommended to me. You definitely earned a sub! Elden Ring was my first souls game, and it has quickly become my favorite game of all time. I just checked my steam account, and I have 267 hours played. That's insane!
The community has been extremely inviting and hillarious (the memes and banter are top notch). I'm currently playing as "Swole Marika" wearing only a skirt and wielding Marika's hammer to help people beat Malenia and Radagon/ EB. I'm doing this because it's fun as hell and I want to help others in the community as well 😄
I got 100% in Elden Ring and it was my first Fromsoft game and beat ng+7 and beat the game 8 times its nothing short of a masterpiece and in my top 5 games of all time. Recently bought Sekiro and maxed the achievements on it and currently working on DS3 these games deserve more praise and I can't wait to beat the rest especially Bloodborne if I can ever get a PS5
Souls community: "Yeah, we do have an Easy Mode, it's called summons and magic."
Souls community: "NO NOT LIKE THAT REEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
I have never used get good meme, but if anyone thinks some people saying git gud are the worst gaming community, then it seems that they haven't seen any other gaming community at all. Have they seen any online multiplayer shooter community from COD to Halo to CS? Sony/Xbox/Nintendo fanboys? Those JRPG people? Has anyone played League of Legends or DOTA? Smash community? Any fighting game community? I can go on and on. The vile stuff said and done by the "worst" part of those communities is unreal.
But hey, some memelords said git gud to me. Gotta be the worst people on planet.
Spitting the big TRUE, as always.
Amazing video, thank you for explaining the "git gud" mentality very well!
Thanks for posing for the thumbnail
this is an amazing video. the "click" theory makes so much sense, thanks to you my love for from games just clicked, I know why I'm so attached to them. I hope this gets to more people
When I was struggling with Owl Father and jerks came to tell me "git gud"... Far from helping me, infuriated me. It actually made me enjoy the game less. THAT I hate about the fandom.
GDC had a video game consultant do a talk where he discussed how Dark Souls caters to a relatively narrow target audience that want a more challenging experience. I think the key thing to take away from it is when he talks about doing everything is not strategy, it’s indecision. I think the fact that Souls have become their own sub genre speaks to how effective sticking to their guns was.
My first souls game was DS3. When I no-hit the dancer that’s when it finally ‘clicked’ with me and I understood why people loved this combat so much
I've never once touched a souls game till elden ring, and I picked it up pretty fast and got so interested I started looking at wikis, class builds, etc to make myself as powerful and to have as much fun as possible.
The thing about this game clicking is that I feel like I need to be knowledgeable about everything in the game but it's not designed to show you things that would be very useful. I had to look up over half of the stuff so that the experience went smoothly. If you want to use multiple weapons that are upgraded decently, you need bell bearings. The majority of people are not figuring out where to find them without help. Some people don't even know about smithing stone bell bearings. There is absolutely nothing that explains which buffs can stack so you have to look it up. The game never once mentions body, aura, weapon, and misc. buffs and how they interact. A decent number of people also completely miss whetblades which is not something that should be missable. Every new person had to look up how to do pvp. So when you say that everything to make the game easier already exists, you're right but that doesn't mean anyone would be able to find stuff without outside help. I dove deep into this game and I can overcome any challenge because I know almost everything related to gameplay. I have 439 hours. I realized that the game is perfectly accessible but it hinders itself by not being user friendly. I can guide anyone to beating malenia (a boss that breaks the rules of the game btw [you can break enemy stance even if they are hyperarmoring but malenia can't be stance broken out of water fowl for example. she also breaks the animation commitment rule by being able to cancel her animations]). But I remember seeing someone actively and openly trying to cheese her but didn't have the knowledge because they didn't look up stuff online all the time. And as Favyn says it in the video, people try to help others all the time. They need help for a reason which I see as a problem when simple fundamental parts of the game can be missed so easily. It's frustrating because they do tell you some things very blatantly and even have a tips section but that can actually make it harder for a new person because at least if you were told nothing, you would always expect to need to look something up. Technically you only need to know how to level and upgrade weapons but that's not good enough when the game benefits, thrives on variety. Why give people the tools to success and fun, then hide half of them? When I eventually play through the other fromsoft games, I wish I could do so without outside help but I know from how much stuff is hidden in elden ring that I have to do that. It still doesn't manage to take away from the gameplay and world. It just could be better. Not that it isn't one of the top games of all time already but I think it would be very very difficult to beat out as number 1 if they designed a couple things better and could completely avoid the need for looking stuff up while being unintrusive, giving players a seamless path, and/or leading players to the discovery indirectly (good design). Lastly, it's ignorant to assume that outsiders perspectives aren't equally as valid as people who have played every fromsoft game. Sure there are people who don't understand certain aspects of their games, but as someone who used to only play a handful of games as recent as like 2016 and as someone who likes to think about how the games are designed, I can tell you that you NEED outsider perspectives sometimes (playing elden ring gave me a unique perspective that I'm glad I now have to combine with various others). You still need to be smart about it but there is not a single game in existence that can't be improved by something that's been done better in another game. Sekiro seems like a good example because it clearly deviates the most from the formula and it didn't invent every new/different aspect of the game, and it won game of the year. The same can be said for elden ring (very likely to win goty as well). Even if you disagree with me saying the need to look a lot of stuff up is not a good thing, this second point is undeniable. I want fromsoft to continue to make elden ring amazing and maybe even top it in the future. I know I probably gave the wrong Idea of how I view the game but I do feel the need to mention something that if changed could help people enjoy the games more. I don't need these changes for myself. Sure it'd make blind playthroughs with zero researching more fun and immersive but the games already so good that I can live with it. I could mention a ton of specific things I'd like to see added or changed but I just wanted to comment on the video topic. Oh and I forgot to mention that I understand that the design can help create a community but that would still be there. Secrets, unique strategies, and stuff like that would still be there to talk about, the game would just be easier to play through fully immersed while still actually experiencing the full game (the game would have never clicked with me if I hadn't watched people play and looked a bunch of stuff up). For example, making whetblades or bell bearings more obvious/clear or at least guiding players to it better would only be helpful, as long as they do it well which they clearly have the capacity to do
Edit: I should also mention that the challenge/speed run community has been amazing and there I learned new strategies and skills. This is something I value and is not what I'm talking about when I say I wish the basic functions and capabilities of the game were better communicated. I'm not asking fromsoft to teach us how to script fights, I just want to be able to reliably get through one of their games on my own without missing something fundamental
Never tell a Souls player that you're thinking about picking up a Fromsoft game for the first time. They'll never sut up. You'll never get rid of them. They'll anoy you until the end of time, or until you play the game, whichever one comes first.
Shout out to Princess Kenny, wherever/whoever you are- ty for help on the final boss!
I really agree with the entire video, i even left some comments in Noah's video pretty much saying the same thing. But after some time reading and talking to people that have this negative perception of the souls community ive realized the amount of real gatekeepers is gigantic. I think possibly half of all the online discussion around the souls games is just gatekeepers being toxic, and the other half is the type of community you described in this video, we are on the not asshole side of community and we do not see the other side. So now when people say the community is toxic i kinda have to agree with them, if half of something is rotten then i cant blame someone for throwing it away.
So what can we do about this? Content creators could be more vocal about not being toxic, dont belittle people because they play in a way you dont like, try to make the assholes less assholes. Or we could try to make a line in the sand distinction. Those over there are the toxic assholes and they are not the souls community, and we are gonna get rid of the toxic idiots on this side. Its a complicated issue that has no easy answer.
Sorry if i made any mistakes, english is not my first language
Excellent video man! You’re very well spoken and I agree with all your points.
When elden ring launched I was obviously very excited and was telling my friends about my experience. This made one of my friends decide to revisit Dark souls, which he gave up on very early into the game, before he checks out ER. I told him to go in blind but be warned the game is not going to hold your hand and that you’d eventually HAVE to get the mechanics down to kill the later bosses. His opinion from when he first started to when he finished the game was completely different. He finally understood the accomplishment of beating the whole game and how impactful it felt. It felt like you actually went on a journey and became stronger. Now he can’t wait to start elden ring! 😁
I've slept on this series for awhile because of my low confidence in skill. This makes me want to play them. Thanks, Favyn!
I love “Git Gud”. It describes the game perfectly because the fights are mostly super fair and most mistakes are done by the player. On the other hand with the player perspective it’s inviting you to literally get better, keep playing, get used to the controls, find your identity with a build and preferred characters in the world and at the end of the day all Miyazaki/Fromsoft games become sandboxes and works of art.
I only dislike 2 types of people when it comes to this.
1, fanboys. There are so many people that refuse to Git Good themselves. So many people love to see “perfect kills”, no matter if the uploader 1-hit kill the boss or fought for 30 minutes. Understandable but the sad part is that they view the content as unique and unobtainable, there are so many small channels that are talented at the game yet people will always reference the big names and in order to justify their own mediocrity they act like perfect kills are unobtainable by the average Joe.
The second group are the ones that probably created this negative vision of “Git Gud”. Like I said, the word was originally inviting, yet some people just throw it around and refuse to elaborate any further. If you are to help a noob you would tell them to get descent equipment, explain level caps and basically help their fundamentals. If you are to give help to a veteran you should give them tips on how enemies have 50/50’s and each combo will requiere different answers as well as tips on positioning against a certain enemy. Sadly this positive look dies when you just say “git Gud” and refuse to elaborate any further. How does this mechanic work? How much damage does this weapon deal on a quality build? What is the most optimal path to reach the next checkpoint? If any of those questions are answered by some random saying “git Gud”, I can understand the hatred to the phrase… I play these games blind first playtrough so I’m theorizing the experience of people seeking help online.
You do have to admit though, if new player asks for help on something, and is dismissevely answered with "git gud", then that doens't tell the new player anything except that the community is a bunch of dicks.
I legitimately have never been told to "git gud" and ive played all souls games and engaged with their communities except for demon souls and sekiro and I've never really seen anyone say this to anyone.
Instead, most of the time I've seen people giving out tips, tricks, maybe even exploits sometimes.
If anything, the only times I've heard the "git gud" is from online games like ow, halo, cod, etc.
12:06 - the most important part of video
Unfortunately, it has been my interactions with the souls community members that stopped me from getting Elden Ring.
The number of time I was told to "gIt GuD" by complete strangers when asking how these games play to new souls players was mind blowing. Legitimately was pushed away solely because of how many elitist pricks I came across.
Well usually the git gud answer to "how do I do it?" means that that's literally the answer. It's not meant to be mean (outside of the ocasional dramatic 12 year old being toxic), it means that there is no secret sauce.
You have to git gud. That's all there is! That's how you play the game! There's no secret, you're not doing it wrong.
You're doing what you are supposed to be doing, you just have to execute it better. You have to, quite literally, get good at the game. That's how you play.
@@nicolasaudy2567 I would say learning the game’s systems is another valid way to git gud. Sometimes it’s as easy as googling “dark souls beginner’s guide”.
People have this idea that From Software makes ultra high skill testing games for True Gamers. The reality is it’s more of a mystery and exploration that is challenging enough to be worthy of the age of the internet.
To “get good” you really just need to understand the game’s core mechanics, and be somewhat patient and observant.
You had a lucky escape. I streamed the whole game and got almost nothing but abuse and flexing incels
@@deriznohappehquite Definetly, a guide is really the go to. I used one for dark souls 3 and found a shield which blocked all damage.
Save my life tons of times. Let alone all the pyromancy and routes. Souls games are most like metroidvanias. And trust me, you'll need a guide for those as well.
Hopefully getting the game this week 🙏
Everyone needs to see this video. Perfectly put into words why these games and the community that loves them are so special.
Lots of great points made here the souls community was 100% something I was intimidated by when starting elden ring but very quickly became a crucial part of the games enjoyment for me. If it’s just in game notes or summon signs or tip and tricks videos I really loved how the devs got you to interact with the community. Great video.
You just missed all of the forest for the trees.
But, if I dont tell other people how to enjoy a single player video game I've wasted so much time dying, grinding and watching loading screens on, how do I prove I am better than them? 😮😮
Very well put. Thank you.
So basically, the guy was told to get good, he got angry, played the game and got good? 😅😅😅
While on the topic of community and collaborative experiences, I would be interested if favgn made a video talking about how a game can reward players to work as a team. Mostly because if you play the modern first person shooters in the triple a gaming industry (halo, call of duty, etc), it seems as though unless you play an objective based mode, everyone runs around the maps to either kill a few players or get killed themselves with little to no strategy or cooperation. Without the incentives of teamwork in a game, every player (as angry joe puts it) is their own little Rambo.
That is not to say I am always a team player when I play an online match but at the same time it is not talked about a lot or rarely do I feel like my team is actually a team playing against another. It feels like it is more the players I don’t shoot and the players I do shoot.
“Git Gud” toxic players get mad at people who “git smart”
main problem is that souls fans act like they ain't going to get filtered by ketsui or ikaruga when 99% of them are guaranteed to get filtered by ketsui or ikaruga
I came in a full noob with dark souls 3 . It kicked my a** like no game had before , but when I reached that click moment I fell in love . I have since played them all, and I can say first hand that even with all the smart a** git gud players it's still a fantastic community !!!
My dream, to play the whole soulsborne games
One day perhaps 🥺
Anyone who cries about muh gatekeeping isn't someone you want in your community to begin with. Those people have an ego so huge and pathetically easily bruised that if you recommend they get better at something instead of trying to fix it, they take it as a personal attack. How could they be wrong? No, its the game and everyone else who's wrong. Participation trophy kids. If they aren't winning, there's something wrong with the game in their mind. These people should be ignored and gate kept.
Another great Favyn video. Eldin Ring is my first From Soft game and the first 5 hours or so I almost regretted my purchase but I kept going and am now 125+ hours trying to find everything this game offers.
The gatekeeping accusations largely have to do with how people play the game through builds.
As a long time soulsborne fan this community is extremely gatekeepy and it has only gotten worse with Elden Ring including newer, more casual players in the community.
"If you didnt beat the game using X,Y,Z then you didnt actually beat the game."
Good old jolly cooperation is eternal
When it comes to the defensiveness of the community there are two things.
1) Changing the mechanics/ it's too hard/ I don't like the story. While those are valid individual complaints but not something that needs to be changed
2) Actual technical issues like the camera or some of the weird jank that it would be nice to see FS change. Playing the Demon Souls remake on PS5 feels so smooth and so nice.
Thank god yt always reccomends content from channels I've subcribed to and have a high watch count of... Also this vid slaps, I used to use a guide on how to get everything from area's in DS3 but when I stopped I had a ton more fun and enjoyed the story cuz that's the visioin FS had. Is it a pain? Oh definetly, but still one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had.
"if this game clicks for you, you won't think it like other game"
the glaze is real lmao. Video game isn't that deep, it's either you like it or don't.
@@littlelw319 it's true
Love the Elden Ring videos Fav! The Souls series has climbed to the top of my favorite games list, and I seldom play games now that reach that peak
Maybe back during the DS1 days, but with Elden Ring, I don't get it. It has been the most welcoming community I have every played with.
I think my problem with Elden ring is that I can't stand the exploration I prefer more it to be more linear like demon souls dark souls and bloodborne, I love open world games I just don't love them in a soulsborne game but after seeing this video I might try Elden ring again and see if I can finally get into it.
just a bunch of toxic fanboys who think they're hot stuff for beating a game that's honestly not even that difficult
Still dumb that people with disabilities won't be able to enjoy a single player.
They do. Elden Ring is actually beatable at a fairly low reaction time threshold (it's not solely based on reactions unlike a game like Tekken or Street fighter which I have heard disabled gamers say "I can't play that kind of game") the main thing with accessibility is things like controllers, color filters or visual prompts like subtitles. There are people out there without the use of arms that beat Elden Ring with their chin and mouth using a specific controller. They can still have that click moment.
No, this online community is like any other online communities there are will always be gatekeepers, and the souls community is littered with gatekeepers/elitists. The souls community will always be associated with neckbeards and obnoxious speed runners in the end of the day and that's fine. Everyone has a right to pick their poison.
Found this video linked in a 4chan /v/ thread.
I will agree that I am a purist - I shun mechanics like summoning, spirit summons and magic. But I liked this video. You made some solid points.
I also think your voice would be well suited for audiobooks. It's quite soothing and would be a perfect voice for a male teenager protagonist.
Absolutely spot on video btw!
“This boss is too hard, this game fucking sucks and I’m literally about to give up, I can’t believe y’all find this shit fun!”
“Lol git gud”
“Wow the souls community is so toxic!”
Yeah no, the “Git Gud” mentality is an unhelpful meme at best and a toxic gatekeeping at worst.
If someone is asking for genuine advice on how to be better or how to beat something and your only response is “Git Gud” then you deserve your finger nails pulled.
Best case scenario, they shrug off your comment and continue to struggle with varying results, maybe succeeding, maybe giving up and abandoning the game.
Worst case scenario, they will find the community as unhelpful as the game is and move on to something else.
Ironic really, how FromSoft fans want so everyone to play Soulsborne games but do absolutely nothing to help new players.
It’s honestly why I’ve straight up abandoned and denounced Doom Eternal and absolutely refuse to even touch Soulsborne games. Jedi Fallen Order was the only one I really got into, mainly because the community wasn’t awful. I might be able to be convinced to get Elden Ring if it goes on sale, but that is a STRONG maybe.
Now the community does suffer the existence of their git gud scrubs and have them ruin anything. Until the community as such no longer exists and the trolls starve lonely in their basements. Who believes in gaming communities in 2023 anyway?
It’s actually spelt ‘git gud’
As a Veteran who played these games for years I aprove of Gatekeeping if it's for the good.
But if it's for other people not learning the core mechinc's and complaining then I'm against the new players I'm not going to say git gud because that's not always the case but I wish games we're more skilled for new & old players
elden ring was my first experience with a soulsborne.
it was brutal, but when i joined the discord for tips, or looked at tutorials online, i got every bit of information i needed, and THEN some that would cause me to discover a new questline.
the community is ridiculously open and welcoming. the problem isn't the community, it's often the newbie response to a difficulty this high.
and you know what? i'm on newgame plus 2, and i haven't stopped. hell, LMSH made me want to join the bandwagon and help people fight mohg! (because he's honestly my favorite fight outside of radahn)
I’m not congratulating anyone who leans on actual other people to beat bosses. Sorry you and I aren’t the same.
You don't gotta congratulate anyone. You don't gotta congratulate em even if they beat a boss without help.
Tell that to the people asking for validation and posting their trophies after a “me and my buddy finally did it” headline. They’re asking for validation and they want that pat on the back, they want people to say great job! And it usually backfires.
Elden Ring being the first of the Soulsborne games that I’ve played in the series, has made me want to go back and play the previous games.
Miquilla, Blade of Melania (I reversed her name on purpose, that boss fight itself doesn’t deserve me saying her name correctly) is the only boss I decided to get random people to help me, and that was the only reason I was able to defeat that fucker.
IMO dark souls 3 is elden ring without the open world part
@@falleneagle8294 without the bullshit too.
Oh no. Not every game reveals to every gamer its "click moment". For me Crash 4 even lost something and had me stop playing it altogether. Clicking my ass I guess, huh?
Wut?
Bottom line - Toxic vocal minority exists in every community and they don't represent nor define the community as a whole.
I think the "get good" ideology is for the people who throw literal tantrums for the game being hard.
Wrong. It's been used for people asking for legit advice on certain game mechanics. I also vividly remember when i was a newer player and people just flat out called others stupid for asking about rings and stuff on beginner guides and stuff
Great vid
It’s a red pill
I think a lot of this applies to Halo fans too.
Favyn deserves 500k subs minimum. Every video this guy makes is spot on you're awesome man
you gonna make a new halo video or hwat
i just clicked on the video and im already been told to get good. this is gonna be a good one
I completely agree. I loved how people would reach out for assistance in PSN forums and, within seconds, there would be replies: "Summons Down at the boss gate!" Not once did I ever see someone say, "Well, you could just git gud instead."
But in the RUclips world, things seem to be different. There is a strong chorus of people who talk as if they are fighting against a flock of easy-mode amateurs trying to ruin their game. And that does leak over into even well-intentioned people who tell folks that they're not getting the real or most fulfilling Souls experience if they [fill in the blank with your favorite assist].
Even a nice-sounding guy like Ratatoskr falls in to this, when he all but calls every strategy that makes your learning curve too easy "cheese." And telling people that they are cheesing a boss by using the strongest magic they can isn't coming, I think, entirely from a place of gratitude and community-building.
I don't understand the aversion people have with the concept of cheesing... look, afk rune farms and broken builds are 100% cheesing, let's be real here, it's abusing exploits. If the devs knew it was possible during testing they would have patched it out and that's a fact.
But again, I have no idea why people go nuts when something they do is called "cheesing"? Do they think killing the boss by peppering it with arrows from a safe spot doesn't count or something? We've all done it, what are they so ashamed of? Theres nothing wrong with abusing the cheese, no need to be so insecure about it.
Being totally honest I've never picked up a from software game because everyone says how it's literally so difficult and if you can't beat something its you're fault, and I've solo flawlessed destiny dungeons and I'm a mythic halo infinite ranked player, so I can imagine how the really casual players feel about the community
I think my biggest issue I've seen the git gud meme used for in the community is not a gatekeeping one (fans have been writing those guys off for years now), but when you raise criticisms of the game for being too difficult for unfair reasons.
I've seen people raise that some bosses in the past were unfair or that an enemy had an attack that might not have been well designed, and because the Souls community rallied wrongfully under the rhetoric of the Souls games being "the most difficult barrier to overcome", if you had an issue with a design of the game, you'd get hit with "git gud" and dismissed.
Yo Favyn have you ever held a baby duck? They kinda ugly till they grow up a bit.
Articulated perfectly
it’s still gatekeeping, there’s no defending it, whether you’re passionate about the souls games or not, stop telling others how to play the game
Spirit ashes ruined Elden Ring somewhat. Casualized the game to the point of dividing the player base. Impossible to compare experiences between using and not using summons. It's a different game entirely.
Sooooo goood! Thank you
I’m not going to play elden ring. All I hear about it is normies gushing about how good it is, and 90% of the time that’s enough for me to assume something is bad or mediocre.
Fucking lol.
Missing out
im not crying you're crying😭😭😭
No offense, but your Gears of War chainsaw example is bad and dismissive. You are watering down the mechanic as just a brainless spectacle, just because on the surface it is gory and loud. And your dismissiveness of it is a symptom of a problem in the souls community.
The chainsaw in Gears of War (Gears 1 especially) is a deeper mechanic (in multiplayer) than any of the combat mechanics in souls games and Elden ring. It creates many interesting interactions between players. In multiplayer, you can hide in corners and chainsaw people. If you successfully ambush them multiple times, that will cause the person to be more cautious. You can rush in for boomshot (usually people expect a shotgun duel over it) and surprise the other person, if you dodge their gnasher shot you can quickly rev your chainsaw, saw them, and win the battle for boom. In the next start of the round, the person might hold back and try to lancer you to avoid getting sawed. You can also risk it and run at the person medium range with the saw revving, the person will either try to stand their ground and shoot you, melee you and stun you, back off and shoot, or just run away. These cause interesting interactions. Wallbouncing or dodging gnasher shots can be used to avoid taking damage to prevent you from being stunned when you try to chainsaw them. If you are evasive enough, you can kill them at critical moments when fighting for boomshot or longshot. It isn't just a "press b for kill button" you have to know when to hide, ambush, rev your saw, dodge, and walk forward.
Dark souls and Elden ring are not deep games, it all just boils down to timing. Know when to press B for invincibility, half the time you can just spam and you'll be fine, look for an opening to drink estus, which you learn by trial and error, which is not deep at all, if you are lazy, have poise and many heals, you can just spam estus to tank it and end up with net positive health, that is about as deep as it goes.
I'm saying all of this because this is part of the git gud mindset, you misrepresent other games and tote dark souls as the premier deep game with mechanics that are so good, "once you understand it will be irresistible". There is no "click" for dark souls, the entire game is surface level, titanite for damage, b for invincibility, x for estus, titanite requires basic exploration, healing and dodging just requires basic pattern recognition. It doesn't require a "click" to understand that is what you have to focus on and what the game revolves around.
People don't "give up" dark souls because it is too deep for them to grasp. They give it up because it is a shallow trial and error game where the "trying" part is no fun, so there is no reward in "erroring" besides saying that you did it to someone else on the internet
The souls community is basically like that Rick and Morty meme about needing a 300 iq to understand the deep humor of the show or something. Just like the meme, the reality is, it's not deep at all, you just enjoy the game very much and are overstating how deep it actually is. That mindset is what creates all the hubbub about Git Gud and stuff.
You dismiss dark souls and then defend a chainsaw mechanic in a game with a bunch of nonsense examples of its "depth"
"You can hide behind corners and kill people" and they'll have to be careful.
"You can rev it and walk towards somebody and then they'll have to stop you"
Like bruh you're taking super basic interactions and acting like it's some crazy nuanced stuff.
It's not. Gears of War is deep, as a whole, but the chainsaw is not.
Calling souls surface level is a clear indicator that they have gone way over your head.
World design, storytelling, encounter design, boss design, all are literally the pinnacle of the industry.
It's not about them being easy or hard. It's not about any stupid get good mindset. And you're free to not like them. But to vouche for the depth of gears chainsaw and then say souls is surface level is a pretty clear indicator you have no idea what you're talking about
BTW we could have had a more nuanced discussion. But instead you decided to rip on the games.
I get you're annoyed with how some people act but don't return the favor with equal ignorance
@@FavynTube You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say the chainsaw was super deep. I said it was deeper than anything Dark Souls has because it is super surface level. That is part of the mindset I'm talking about. You also conveniently ignored wallbouncing with a chainsaw. Which that by itself is genuinely deep.
Saying it is going over my head is part of the gate keeping I'm talking about. The only "depth" in the game is reading item descriptions and knowing the correct order to talk to npcs to, there are micro interactions in that, but that is basically the only "depth" there is. There is practically 0 gameplay depth, besides random stuff like the hollow greatsword or something doing more damage to Gaels second phase when he lets the Dark soul overcome him or something. But all of that is realized and figured out after the fact. It is too obtuse and random to be actually good in any enjoyable way to the player in the moment they are physically playing the game.
99% of people only realize this so called "depth" when they watch a youtube video. In that case it is borderline nonsense design and doesn't add anything actually meaningful to the game that people can enjoy. Just because it is unique, it doesn't mean it is pinnacle. It's essentially just easter eggs at that point.
Well i had a huge ass response to this but it looks like you deleted the message and it didnt go through :(.
Ill have to do a short version. The exploration relies on your natural intuition more than just obtuse, i wacked random walls and found a secret path. Its easily the deepest exploration ever made. And even from a combat perspective, jus because it doesnt focus on mechanical agency does not mean it lacks depth. The enemy variety, encounter design. Each weapon scaling different depending on your build, changing the affinity of your weapon so it scales differently while taking on new properties. two handing, power stancing, different attacks based on if youre rolling, performing a step back, or jumping.
I think it dimishes the game to reduce it to "just press b to turn invincible" its more than that. Not every game is about what YOU can do as the player, sometimes its about overcoming limitations and putting pieces together on your own. So even though the combat system is rather simple, the pieces around it is where the depth comes from.
If that makes sense
Favyn.
You should play outer wilds (not outer worlds) It is one of those games that you fall in love with once you understand the mechanics and make s vide about it.
Ps. If you are interested please don't look for spoilers or analysis. This game is at it's best when you don't know anything about it (I think it's on games pass)
Noah's video was amazing, but I found the amount of times he referenced "git gud" to be incredibly annoying and not really necessary. Sure, address it, but he really was beating a dead horse at a point
Honestly if so many people love the games and hate the community, maybe it is the community that's bad lmao
@@EggEnjoyer the halo community is toxic, they hate anything new and suck of Bungie, and ignore all the issues with Bungie’s halos.Souls community is cringe, not toxic because most of them think souls games are the hardest games ever.
Jesus 😂
Elden Ring is my first ever entry into the Souls franchise. As a completely new player, I gotta say, this game is a lot of fun.
12:06 amogus
You know that in this case "Being Protective" could be looked at as "Gatekeeping" right
Like God Damn son your so-called "Community" loves to talk shit on people if they grind which ,I will remind people, is generally a mechanic in RPGs when it comes to leveling (especially JRPGs).
Like literally the reason I play offline with a game like this or Bloodborne (or Demon Souls) is because I REALLY don't wanna deal with people and if I HAD to summon God Damn would it be a headache because I'd spend more time wondering if the person was gonna screw me over rather than help
But yeah trust me when I tell you that this vid did NOTHING to change my mind about this so-called "community" and can take your defense of the practice and stick it somewhere
Have a great day :-)
The irony in this post is painful.
Passive aggressive
Condescending
I think I actually know what the problem has been in your previous interactions. The writing is on the wall and I'll leave it at that.
Thanks for watching
@Jinxed Swashbuckler Nah look
Whenever it comes to players with the game (at least with what I have seen) if you grind for levels it's frowned upon
For a level 1 run I get it but for someone like me (who was introduced to JRPGs by his father playing Dragon Warrior/Quest) who likes to grind for levels according to the community I'd be a scrub right?
It's NOT that that I want to come into the game or the "community" with a chip on ,y shoulder but when you deal with people who look down on people who grind for levels that is arguably the BIGGEST hurdle for anyone to climb
@Jinxed Swashbuckler My big thing is that when it comes to this game (or most SoulsBorne for me) is there never has been a "easier arwa" (and I don't mean that to be rude just a fact)
Like I literally just reinstalled the game to go again ( because I do want to beat a Souls game at some point) but when the designer makes a game where the first step consistently feels like climbing with a pickaxe ,grappling hook and backpack it's kind of one of those things where you wonder what the end goal is.
My end goal with this ,Bloodborne or Demon Souls IS to complete one of these games but there is the problem...getting off the starting block
@Jinxed Swashbuckler the best part is Elden Ring is the least grindy FromSoft game as you can almost always find other places to go where not only can you get runes to level up you can also get new items and gear that will probably strengthen you more then a few levels anyways
@@FavynTube If everywhere you go smells like shit, then you might want to check the bottom of your shoes. I find it humorous that the people who complain about "toxicity" from the this very welcoming and encouraging community are often the most toxic, unappealing ones themselves. He says he can't engage in co-op because he'd have a headache from worrying if that person was going to screw them over, as if that's a normal thing to be worried about, as if that's something that a normal person with a healthy view of others would worry about. I've probably done over 10,000 instances of co-op over the last decade, and can say under no uncertain terms that he is absolutely and unabashedly full of shit. And yet he keep blaming everyone else for the smell which he is emitting.
first