Seriously though. It’s strange to bother including cards in the cube that the people don’t take/play even when they are in the right deck for them, especially given the abundance of quality alternatives.
Craterhoof is a pretty clear cut in the current meta. A fatty that can't be played with tinker, sneak, or reanimate just isn't good enough. Tough draws, always a risk with reanimate, but your draws were significantly below average. I think you should have mulled a couple of hands that you kept (the 3 fatty hand is already basically a mull), I think you are just priced in to mulling more aggressively with this build.
I don't think running 2x eldrazi is worth it with only a single Dance to combo with them. Either play show and tell/oath and try to cheese people, or cut at least one of them.
58:13 I couldn’t find any great plays using this info, but if you can get initiative and go to the forge, you can target the grissel attempting to give it two counters, killing it without using your bitter triumph (since it’s Phantasmal image).
Craterhoof does seem pretty niche compared to a lot of more modern cards, that can do so much more. He's a homie that's been around for so long though, it'd be sad to see him go.
This does feel more like a metagame shift away from mono green. Everyone values removal highly as well as the elves, so mono g struggles and hoof is on his way out, but if the mtgo cube dropped it as well I would be surprised
Definitely doesn't help that with cards like Fury and Bowmasters being such a high pick the X/1 mana dorks have fallen off a lot, which makes the hoof even harder to really pull off. Very sad day for big dumb green things
Very serious question - why not play the unmarked grave? it gives outs to binning Grave titan/Troll/white plume/From the Catacombs. It just feels like it would have given you some needed redundancy
The outs at 58:20 are either to Bazaar first into exactly Fatal Push and Troll, or Bitter Triumph first discarding Kozilek, so you can try to Bazaar into exactly Lotus Petal and Troll. Pretty suspicious no matter how you slice it.
My argument for Hoof is more gameplay than power. It’s not as desirable as in the past, sure, but the Overrun effect is a good one to have. There’s some good play I’ve always liked of “can I survive to Hoof/can I close this game out with Hoof before they can come back/should I focus my energy on the Hoof out, or try a different path” that is overall a net-positive.
Their cube doesn't really have a wide token archetype in it. So if you are just playing wienies it just isn't as good enough due to the amount of removal.
I think the 'Hoof needs more Elfball in the cube to be good, otherwise it's trying to play Modern in a Vintage format. Without cards like Priest of Titania, Elvish Archdruid, or the Nettle Sentinel combo, there's no way to explode onto the board.
I definitely think Craterhoof needs to get retired, if for no other reason than to see if people can even recognize its absence. Green ramp decks just ain't what they used to be. You're not trying to ramp into Hoof anymore, you're trying to cast Minsc & Boo or Seasoned Dungeoneer ahead of schedule.
@@rizlawow diversifying content isn't necessarily bad, they aren't suggesting completely replacing team draft with stip, just that some stip drafts occasionally would be cool
Green is the worst color and craterhoof is one of the best payoffs being base green Natural order/ Gaea's cradle. Don't cut one of the main reasons to be base green! There's very little support for natural order in the cube already. Craterhoof rewards someone for playing something that is correctly under drafted. There's other sideboard riding green cards or low priority fixing spells that don't have anywhere near the upside of craterhoof.
I wouldn’t get rid of Craterhoof because then it hurts Natural Order and therefore green in general? What other big Greene creature would replace it? Aren’t Prime Time and the 7 drop already in the cube?
I think Craterhoof has reached it's time. It's done a lot of overrunning and a lot of Natural Ordering to win games but at this point, it's probably just in for nostalgia purposes Still hurts to type it out though
G: Draw cards equal to the number of lands you control, then each creature you control gets +X/+X and gains trample until end of turn, where X is equal to the number of lands you control, plus the number of creatures you control, plus the number of cards in your hand. At the beginning of the next end step, you win the game. Something like that, I imagine.
Mono green never was that viable in vintage cube. The least interactive color which cannot kill fast enough to get under combo and control decks. Green needs a way to interact or it needs to kill faster. Interaction could be more cards like mawloc and legolas quick reflexes in mono green. To kill faster mono green needs more powerful 3 drops. T1 elf into t2 3 drop beater should be a common play pattern. Right now all the 3 drops in green kind of suck.
LSV doesn't tend to draft towards decent Craterhoof decks (and if he starts he abandons it at least partly at critical junctures). Plenty of people aren't playing sweepers and/or have slow decks. Craterhoof is fine.
Big fan of the videos. I wonder how your winning stats are? It seems your decks have become progressively harder to make function, over the last year or so. And the line of plays now is less spectaculiar that what it used to be. Initiative should be removed - too much focus on the 5-6 cards..
i couldnt disagree with the line you took in the draft. always tough to pull off a combo deck without tutors or card selection. you're basically just relying on magic gods for your opening hand and top of deck
Passing on sinkhole twice in a video titled mono-black broke my heart LSV. Just want you to know that.
This Comment made me resign of watching the video
Seriously though. It’s strange to bother including cards in the cube that the people don’t take/play even when they are in the right deck for them, especially given the abundance of quality alternatives.
Still hurts
Craterhoof is a pretty clear cut in the current meta. A fatty that can't be played with tinker, sneak, or reanimate just isn't good enough. Tough draws, always a risk with reanimate, but your draws were significantly below average. I think you should have mulled a couple of hands that you kept (the 3 fatty hand is already basically a mull), I think you are just priced in to mulling more aggressively with this build.
I'm just impressed at how much better Headliner Scarlett is at being a "hellrider" type card in the cube without being as all-in as hellrider.
Appreciating the addition of looking at teammates decks and going over what they are doing. Great video!
I don't think running 2x eldrazi is worth it with only a single Dance to combo with them. Either play show and tell/oath and try to cheese people, or cut at least one of them.
58:13 I couldn’t find any great plays using this info, but if you can get initiative and go to the forge, you can target the grissel attempting to give it two counters, killing it without using your bitter triumph (since it’s Phantasmal image).
Earthshaker Giant we found is a hoof for 2 less. Might be worth it for you.
The draft portion is the perfect amount of time to stretch!
man, talisker really has your number!
Would be refreshing to see you guys play cube without monarch/initiative. Also is Fire/Ice cut from this cube? Its one of my favourite cards :(
It really does feel like a large portion of games revolve around who controls the initiative.
Craterhoof does seem pretty niche compared to a lot of more modern cards, that can do so much more. He's a homie that's been around for so long though, it'd be sad to see him go.
This does feel more like a metagame shift away from mono green. Everyone values removal highly as well as the elves, so mono g struggles and hoof is on his way out, but if the mtgo cube dropped it as well I would be surprised
Definitely doesn't help that with cards like Fury and Bowmasters being such a high pick the X/1 mana dorks have fallen off a lot, which makes the hoof even harder to really pull off. Very sad day for big dumb green things
Very serious question - why not play the unmarked grave? it gives outs to binning Grave titan/Troll/white plume/From the Catacombs. It just feels like it would have given you some needed redundancy
The outs at 58:20 are either to Bazaar first into exactly Fatal Push and Troll, or Bitter Triumph first discarding Kozilek, so you can try to Bazaar into exactly Lotus Petal and Troll. Pretty suspicious no matter how you slice it.
My argument for Hoof is more gameplay than power. It’s not as desirable as in the past, sure, but the Overrun effect is a good one to have. There’s some good play I’ve always liked of “can I survive to Hoof/can I close this game out with Hoof before they can come back/should I focus my energy on the Hoof out, or try a different path” that is overall a net-positive.
Griseldaddy was very useful Match 3 game 1... for our opponent 😂😂
Man, 1pm truely is the best time of the day
Was anyone else yelling for him to take Portal, knowing Show and Tell might wheel from pack 1?
Last time I vintage cubed in person I had the nuts mono green deck and it was butt craterhoof is past his prime
craterhoof being on the chopping block is so weird to hear, it explodes people
Doesn’t nothing 90% of the time and green decks don’t need help winning
i like the card, but i think its time has come in this cube.
Their cube doesn't really have a wide token archetype in it. So if you are just playing wienies it just isn't as good enough due to the amount of removal.
I think the 'Hoof needs more Elfball in the cube to be good, otherwise it's trying to play Modern in a Vintage format. Without cards like Priest of Titania, Elvish Archdruid, or the Nettle Sentinel combo, there's no way to explode onto the board.
yeah, they could expand theirs. mine has a couple hundred more cards in it to allow more archetypes and variety.
I definitely think Craterhoof needs to get retired, if for no other reason than to see if people can even recognize its absence. Green ramp decks just ain't what they used to be. You're not trying to ramp into Hoof anymore, you're trying to cast Minsc & Boo or Seasoned Dungeoneer ahead of schedule.
can stipulation drafts come back? maybe on magic online since they mess with your team, but they are fun to see. Love the content
Please no, there are cubers who's bread and butter is stipulation nonsense. Plenty of that to watch out there, already. This channel needs no gimmick.
@@rizlawow diversifying content isn't necessarily bad, they aren't suggesting completely replacing team draft with stip, just that some stip drafts occasionally would be cool
I was shocked that we didnt discard kozilek game 1. Shocked! :D
Would forbidden orchard be a decent inclusion in the cube? Some decks wouldnt care about giving the OP a 1/1 and it would be good in an oath deck
Green is the worst color and craterhoof is one of the best payoffs being base green Natural order/ Gaea's cradle. Don't cut one of the main reasons to be base green! There's very little support for natural order in the cube already. Craterhoof rewards someone for playing something that is correctly under drafted.
There's other sideboard riding green cards or low priority fixing spells that don't have anywhere near the upside of craterhoof.
I wouldn’t get rid of Craterhoof because then it hurts Natural Order and therefore green in general? What other big Greene creature would replace it? Aren’t Prime Time and the 7 drop already in the cube?
Aren't people just mostly Ordering for Atraxa anyway at this point? I dunno, I love Hoof but it's because I play commander and am a Cube casual
Yes LSV getting my coffee asap
The keep at 47:20 is definitely one of the keeps of all time.
In the last game vs Mental Mistep when you conceded, could you have blocked with Grieslbrand to bide time? It has lifelink
Headliner Scarlett makes blocking impossible the turn it comes down.
Talisgur got you 😭😭😭
every time! lol
I think Craterhoof has reached it's time. It's done a lot of overrunning and a lot of Natural Ordering to win games but at this point, it's probably just in for nostalgia purposes
Still hurts to type it out though
1pm siesta n LSV ❤
Cue "Back in Black" by ACDC
Curious what mono green needs to be viable again.
G: Draw cards equal to the number of lands you control, then each creature you control gets +X/+X and gains trample until end of turn, where X is equal to the number of lands you control, plus the number of creatures you control, plus the number of cards in your hand. At the beginning of the next end step, you win the game.
Something like that, I imagine.
Mono green never was that viable in vintage cube. The least interactive color which cannot kill fast enough to get under combo and control decks.
Green needs a way to interact or it needs to kill faster. Interaction could be more cards like mawloc and legolas quick reflexes in mono green. To kill faster mono green needs more powerful 3 drops. T1 elf into t2 3 drop beater should be a common play pattern. Right now all the 3 drops in green kind of suck.
LSV doesn't tend to draft towards decent Craterhoof decks (and if he starts he abandons it at least partly at critical junctures). Plenty of people aren't playing sweepers and/or have slow decks. Craterhoof is fine.
38:10 I think you could have played the From the Catacombs, if you just played a land first.
He didn’t have enough cards in graveyard. There were 5 total including the catacombs. U need 6.
@@bumpasaurus487 ah, my bad
I would miss Craterhoof
____ Craterhoof, this ain’t commander.
Big fan of the videos. I wonder how your winning stats are? It seems your decks have become progressively harder to make function, over the last year or so. And the line of plays now is less spectaculiar that what it used to be. Initiative should be removed - too much focus on the 5-6 cards..
Feeling a bounce back 3-0 tomorrow
Don't cut my boy Hoof :(
Regular or decaff
Am i crazy or is long goodbye not a card you drafted.
I just had a pack like your P1 crack. Also took P1P1 Troll in that spot
i couldnt disagree with the line you took in the draft. always tough to pull off a combo deck without tutors or card selection. you're basically just relying on magic gods for your opening hand and top of deck
3 straight 0-3s yikes
No tutors sure, but you were cut hard on black and missed all the hand disruption. 5/10 reani deck
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