All the "jam on the side" was an old method of trying to get enough Vit C in the winter. Rose hips were especially good for that. Preserve as many fruits as possible, by making as much jam as possible during the short summers. Also, most berries were foraged, so gathering and preserving was time consuming. Jam, must have been very important !
The most disturbing thing about this video is that written Icelandic is not incomprehensible to me. I had some smattering of old Norse in secondary school, but I never truly learnt it. I have never studied French or Spanish, but I can read some. I would not be as surprised if I read and understood an instruction written in French. Perhaps the familiar sentence structure facilitates my understanding.
My great grandmother immigrated from Iceland to Canada with her parents. Her name was Ingebjord but went by Emma. Her father's name was Bergthor but she went by the last name Johnson which was her father's (Kjartansson) anglicised name. So instead of Ingebjorg Bergthordottir we got Emma Johnson. Genealogy is a nightmare (but Iceland kept excellent records)
Could it have been, "Ingibjörg" originally, but later anglicised to Ingebjord? I've never heard that name, but I know quite a few Ingibjörg. Including my mother in law!
Ingibjörg was born and baptized in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada in 1891. Her parents and 2 oldest sisters emigrated from Seyðisfjörður in 1888. Upon her father's death in 1936 his wife was still alive but in ill health. Oldest daughter Helga Johnson lived in Vancouver. Elin Newell in Aberdeen WA USA. Jorunn Christina Wolfe in Winnipeg. Ingibjörg Emma Whitworth in Winnipeg. Mary Dawes in Winnipeg. Berþór Kjartansson (Johnson) b. 17 april 1852 on the farm Sandbrekka in the northeast of Iceland was the son of Kjartan Jónsson b. 30 june 1802, son of Jón Bergþórsson b. 1752, son of Bergþór Stefánsson b. ~1720 Jóhanna Ólafsdóttir (Emma's mother) was born in Steinsnes, Seyðisfjörður to Ólafur Guttormsson b. 6 june 1813 and Helga Vilhjálmsdóttir b. 29 december 1825. Her parents both emigrated to the Americas in 1889.
@@bjarnisigurdsson1911 That makes a lot of sense! According to Íslendingabók, Bergþór Kjartansson emigrated to the western world in 1888 from Háfnefsstaðir in Seyðisfjörður (East Iceland). According to Priest Einar, who kept the record, he was a handsome man
Hello, resident Faroe Peasant here. 🇫🇴 We have almost exactly the same naming standards, except that we almost always have family names. Patronyms and matronyms are usually only reserved to middle names. For example, Jóhan Martinsson Joensen. We can invent new Family names. In fact, my family and i did this. The rules are the same as for Iceland. The name must be considered traditionally Faroese, it needs to work, grammatically, and it can't be considered rude. Two of my uncles were given Patronyms, and they don't have my grandfather's last name. The ruling body for this is quite new in the Faroes. I'm not sure exactly when it was established, but it's some time in the last 20 years. They also dictate how you are to pronounce your name.
Toponymic last names should also be included when discussing Faroese last names. They have old roots, became less common during amtmannstíðin (the time of the greatest Danish influence), but are now common again. Examples from the current squads of the Faroese National Handball and National Football teams: Norðberg, av Teigum, á Skipagøtu, Mittún, Klakstein, Lamhauge, á Reynatrøð, Vatnhamar, Færø (also common during amtmannstíðini), Kallsberg, Klettskarð, Bjartalíð. There are many other examples as well, just easier to use names from published squads. Wonder why Icelanders never went big on toponymic last names. There have been some prominent examples, such as Laxness, Eldjárn and Hafstein, but definitely not as common as it is in the Faroes.
Read something close to that from a swede below... As a German you sometimes loose your brains about all those Müller, Maier, Schröder names (not sure about the correct word for that, but they are basically derived from someones occupation or profession at a time. Some more obvious like Müller, in Englisch the comparable name would be Miller, and others today not easily recognized like that, because that job either vanished or uses a different name today), and their varieties. But like a quarter of the country being somone Johansson... thats a whole different level...
My Great Grandfather came over (Jóhann Jónsson) and worked in the logging camps in Northern Manitoba. He said people with similar sounding names were stealing his pay. So he changed his last name to Hrappstead named after the farm he was from.
Reminiscent of a naming system used in Dalarna in Sweden in older times (and still allowed, apparently). Name of farm, person name, patronymic. Used because everyone just used the same names. Erik Jonsson, yes but which one? Ah, the one from the Maria farm. Maria Erik Jonsson. Yes, the first name can thus be the "wrong" gender and no-one local bats an eye. Best case I've head of: Bengt Bengt Bengtsson. Even did radio interview, apparently it can create issues at airports :D
@@GustavSvard Many English last names are either based on location (Hamilton, London, etc.) or profession (Baker, Smith, Carpenter etc.). But many are also patronymic (Johnson, Anderson, Thompson etc), they are just not used in the same way anymore. A large amount of Scandinavian surnames (Hansen, Jacobsen, Olsen) are clearly patronymic to begin with.
It was relatively recently that Sweden moved away from the traditional naming system, similar to Iceland's today. On my dad's side, my family adopted fixed surnames in the 1850s, while on my mom's side, it happened closer to 1900. However, the challenges with the son/dottir naming system had been apparent for centuries before that. One major issue was the sheer number of people with identical names, especially since it was common to name the first son after his father. For instance, you’d have Erik Jonsson, son of Jon Eriksson, who was himself the son of Erik Jonsson, and so on. Names like Erik and Jon were extremely common, leading to situations where you might have multiple “Erik Jonssons” in a single village-or worse, in the same military platoon. To address this, Sweden developed the soldier naming system (soldatnamn). Soldiers were assigned unique bynames to distinguish them in military records. These names often reflected personal traits, animals, or objects, such as Oxe (Ox), Fjäril (Butterfly), or Kämpe (Champion). If a soldier liked their assigned name, they might keep it after their service, turning it into a family surname. In rural areas, gårdsnamn (farm names) were another way to resolve the confusion. These names could be added either before or after a person’s patronymic. For example, someone might be called "Lillgårda Erik Jonsson" or "Erik Jonsson Lillgårda" to show their connection to the farm Lillgården. The farm name often bent grammatically to indicate affiliation, much like a descriptor, linking the person to their place of origin or residence. Also it was fairly common with more than one middle name, and when names would conflict in a village, you just used another of your given names as the patronymic. So Karl Erik Johan Petterson could have kids with a total of six different surnames.. All of them fairly common of course.. Weee :D
@MrZnarffy My grandfather and his sister (born in the 30s) were told by Skatteverket (the taxministry) sometime in the 50s that they had to choose if they wanted to keep their old -son/-dotter surnames and make them their family names or if they wanted to choose something else for their surnames. A lot of people in our area didn't like naming their daughters something that ended in -son so they opted to take the name of the vårdträd at their farm or something similar, some families did the transition earlier but that's one of the explanations for the surnames Björk (birch), Ask (ash), Lönn (maple), Ek (oak) and so on.
@@helenahsson1697 Yeah, even though my father was born after the family name had sorta been chosen, he was still only written down with his given names in churchbooks, and this was in the late 1920s. By then having a surname was in the law, but still not completely adapted yet..
Thanks for the informative comment! I learned just today that it's still legal to give your child a patronymic instead of a surname in Sweden, even if it's still very uncommon. I was reading about the history of the Pirate Party in the Europarliament when I realized their first ever MEP (from Sweden) had no surname. Up until now I thought that was a only thing in Iceland in this day and age. Then this video gets recommended to me and I went looking in the comments to learn more about the naming conventions in other Nordic countries. 😅
Fixed surnames don't really make full names more distinguished from one another. It works well in my case, because barely anyone has my last name, but if the names you have are common, it's a problem, regardless of whether your last name is fixed or not. If half the population is called Nguyen or something, it's not exactly helpful.
Fixed surnames don't really make full names more distinguished from one another. It works well in my case, because barely anyone has my last name, but if the names you have are common, it's a problem, regardless of whether your last name is fixed or not. If half the population is called Nguyen or something, it's not exactly helpful.
All of my children (all daughters, just the way it worked out) are adopted. But to point out and emphasize that they have a permanent home with us I will often call a child '(her first name) Danasdottir'. We are family.
I will say the patronymic naming system really helps when it comes to genealogy. I have deep Norwegian and Swedish roots, and while by the time they came to the States, the Swedes regardless of gender had adopted Peterson as a family name, I am able to trace further back tracing the -son and -dottir names. The Norwegian who came, used the patronymic name of Oleson as his middle name and the name of the farm where his family lived as his family name. But again, that Oleson as a middle name helped me trace the roots. Also, it helps that people at that time tended to stay in the area they were born.
The first name-patronymic-farm naming convention was extremely common in Norway in the 19th century, but for potential genealogists out there it is worth mentioning that the farm is *whatever farm they currently occupy*. People might change last names several times as they move, and this also means that you will see husbands taking their wives last names in cases where the couple move to the wife’s family’s farm.
@@johanmildethanks for that info. There’s a Norwegian-American library about an hour from me, I need to go there one of these days and do some research in “farm books”.
Swede here, did I understand you correctly that Swedes that came to the States primarily in the 1800s adopted the last name Peterson regardless if that was their native Swedish last name back home?
The best known Icelandic person to people in the UK is the late TV presenter Magnus Magnusson. He was actually born Magnus Sigursteinsson, the son of Sigursteinn Magnússon but spent most of his life in Scotland and his family adopted the British naming convention and used his father's patronymic as a surname. Thus his daughter, also a TV presenter, was called Sally Magnusson and not Magnusdottir. Her married name is Stone and her son is film director Jamie Magnus Stone, which almost sounds like a patronymic itself.
And to confuse matters, there is also a Magnús Ver Magnússon, who was the World Storngest Man in the 90s. And just looking this up, there's another Magnús Magnússon, also a Strong Man, but not quite as strong. But I've started, so now I'll finish
The patronymic naming system occurs in other countries too. Malays in Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei have patronyms, not surnames. Ahmad bin Hasan and Hasnah binte Hasan are the son and daughter of Hasan. Most Indonesians don't have surnames but may adopt a patronym to satisfy Saudi authorities when they go for Hajj. The Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto doesn’t have a surname. That's just the double name that his parents gave him. He's addressed as Mr Prabowo.
every time I stumble across your stuff I always leave thinking "this guy is actually pretty interesting. I have to subscribe" and then I wind up forgetting to subscribe. time to fix that right now.
An Icelandic dorm mate of mine when studying in Japan told us of travelling to the US with his parents and brother. Upon arrival, they were separated for 2-3 hours, had to have the embassy call and explain the naming convention and confirm their identities with the registrar in Iceland, and were interrogated in the meantime, because the last names didn't match up, and the customs officers were worried it was a case of child trafficking because both boys were minors under 16...😅 Great way to start your US holiday...😅
In Spain people have 2 surnames. The father's surname and the mother's. It used to be the father's name first but recently people can choose the order. Older people all had Catholic saint names. There are loads of Marias, Antonios etc. Pepe is 'short' for Josef. Because Joseph was only the putative father of Jesus. Padre Putativo or PP. Francisco was shortened to Paco No one seems to know why. Lots of women are called Mari Carmen, Maria or Pilar, for Maria del Pilar or ''the support of life chosen by God'. Mar is for Maria del Mar. So many women's names are variations on a theme. 😅
It’s not from an acronym, just a regular sound change between /f/ and /p/ and reduplication. ‘Jose-pe’ → ‘Pe-pe’ like Italian ‘Giuseppe’ → ‘Peppe’. ‘Fra-ncis-co’ → ‘Pa-co’ also involves a cluster reduction of /pr/ to /p/, like ‘puncto’ → ‘punto’ reduces /kt/ to /t/; compare Basque ‘Patxi’ as a nickname for ‘Frantzisko’.
Really cool! England had a plethora of different names - and names from different sources - that just go down through generations, although originally they meant something (Johnson, Robinson, Thompson are patronymics, Baker, Smith, Brewer are occupational names - things like that). I'm an English person with (apparently) an old-fashioned sounding Danish name. Or an old-fashioned Danish-sounding name, something like that, which is also a place-name in England. I think Iceland is one of the few places left where surnames depend on the parents' names, and that is so cool - something very Icelandic, I think.
Patronymic names still persist in Wales, though they're rare nowadays. One simply inserts "ap" (a corruption of 'mab' - 'son') or 'merch' ('daughter/girl') between the given name and the father's name: Ioan ap Griffydd (Ioan son of Gryffydd); Catryn merch Tomos (Catryn daughter of Tomos).
What a wonderfully education video. Thank you for explaining this, it is fascinating and I really enjoy your cheerful tone when you talk about your culture
As a massive fan of all things Icelandic and also trying to learn the language, I find the whole naming system and declension of names fascinating. I’ve even seen them decline foreign names - Kamölu is a recent one I’ve spotted. Thanks for the informative videos.
I have of course no clue of how far you are on your Icelandic learning journey, but if you’re still somewhere near the beginning I need to tell you about Alaric Hall’s audio course. Just google his name and Icelandic and you’ll find it. It’s free and it’s great. It got me to the point where I could read a book for middle schoolers after two weeks (though of course only with dictionary).
@ Hi, thanks for telling me about this resource. I’m pretty much a beginner at Icelandic so I’ll definitely check it out. I’ve just had a quick browse of the website on my phone but might have to use my laptop to download the mp3s. Thanks again 😀
@@BR-jt6ny Firstly a disclaimer: While I'm spending about 4 hours a day listening to and speaking with Icelanders, I'm not Icelandic myself, I don't live there, it's not my language (although I do love it to bits). Now for your question: It depends a lot on the individual name. If the name is one that can be declined according to usual Icelandic rules, most people will decline them automatically without thinking about it. Some names just don't lend themselves to it very nicely, so people will just awkwardly use it as is. I, for example, am not Icelandic, but my name is a woman's name that ends with an a. This is very handy. Kira, um Kiru (about Kira, þolfall/accusative), frá Kiru (from Kira, þágufall/dative), til Kiru (to Kira's, eignarfall/genitive). My sister's name is Lilli. This, in Icelandic, means little one, but for something masculine. So her name is very awkward. You could decline it the same way as little one, but then it might mean that you're implying she's a boy... So I would probably just call her Lilli and then have Lillis as possessive.
@@ninijuraI’m guessing It’s pronounced similar to Lily right? If so it could be changed to Lillý which is allowed, or going further, change it to Lilja which is the Icelandic equivelant to Lily. Otherwise, yes, Lilli is a masculine word for someone/something that’s small, so it would be doubtful that it would be accepted as is for a female name
As a Swede, I have a patronymic name as a middle name. My father liked the old practice, so he applied it for me and my siblings but as a middle name, since patronymic names as a family name have, as I understand it, been outlawed here because it was deemed confusing (also we have a family name that I think he wanted to pass on as well). So I am "Name Middlename1 son Familyname". I usually go by just "Name Familyname" though, because it's more convenient.
Some of our surnames have a similar origin in Dutch. The most common surname we have is Jansen/Janssen. Which literally comes from the son of Jan, which was a very popular first name for boys for a very long time. Patronyms are very common. Matronyms are far less common to have survived, but we still have some. It's also only in 1811 that every Dutch person had a surname, when Napoleon made it into law that we should all have one. Patronyms were very popular at that time as well, but so were geographical surnames (van Leiden = from the city Leiden) and job related surnames (Schilder = painter). There are some theories the weirder surnames are also from that time. Made up by people who thought that silly surname stuff would go away with time. Weird names like Naaktgeboren (born naked) and Pannekoek (pancake). But they usually are traced back to different eras and the names were given for different reasons. Anyway, patronyms and matronyms are actually a very good naming convention. And I think a lot of countries could use a first name commity. For example, just look at the weird names some "celebrities" come up with.
We have a similar thing with the "whose people are you" here in the south west of Germany A question all children hear all the time, if they come from the black forest is "wem g'härsch du", which means "to who to you belong". And the answer all children will give you is "Mama und Papa". Once they say what the name of mom and dad are, the old granny, or whoever asked the question will immediately go through all the people they know and try to put them somewhere in this spiderweb of relationships. That just isn't really a thing elsewhere in Germany.
It kind of happens in other regions, too. Last month I (adult) ate cake with the elderly in some Franconian village. The first question they asked me was to whom I am related. So I had to explain my lineage in detail until they finally heard a name of someone they used to know. Funny
I come from the Ruhrgebiet and I think we are not so much into this anymore. When I was a child I was asked something like that by a neighbor of my grandmother too and when I said my name he answered „Oh…Musterfrau Marianne ihre Tochter“ (name is of course different), referring to my mothers maiden name.
Ólafur, that case 66/2024 regarding Hroði is from an adult man, a singer of the metal band Une Misere. He really wanted to change his name to this and mannanafnanefnd denied him that.
This is truly fascinating!! Thanks for making it informative and fun! Still can't get over the fact that your name needs to go through an approval process!
My german lastname is apparently of scandinavian origin. My father said once he looked at a phone book out of curiosity and found 7 pages of our lastname in a Swedish phone book. There are only 2 unrelated families with my lastname in my city which is quite sizable.
"-Bur" doesn't have the same obvious English counterpart as "-Dóttir" or "-Son", so in case anyone else was wondering, it means "child", cognate with Scottish-English "bairn", or "barn" in the other Scandinavian languages.
I was wondering if it was cognate with bairn. According to Wiktionary, you have to go all the way back to Proto-Indo-European for them to be connected. "Bur" is cognate with the Old English "byre", which doesn't have a modern descendant. "Bairn" is cognate with the Icelandic "barn". They all mean either "child" or "son" and ultimately come from the Proto-Indo-European word for bear/carry.
it is not really cognate (etymologically the same word), that would be barn, the normal icelandic word for a child but bur IS related to barn, both from the root of "to bear", as in "to bear a child"
This is just fuel for my DnD characters and worldbuilding. One day I'll put a party through some border patrol officer, making them adjust to the naming rules conventions of the nation they are visiting, just for the common folk not addering to this rules and making them look weird.
In Denmark we also used patronymic names until we ‘froze’ them more than a century ago. However, when king Frederik X studied at Harvard in the 90’s he enrolled as Frederik Henriksen, because his father was Prince Consort Henrik.
Intresting. In the UK, prince and princesses don’t officially have surnames, but generally use their parent’s title. So Prince William when the son of the Prince of Wales, when he joined the RAF was called William Wales. There is the legal surname of Mountbatten-Windsor that they can use, but it’s not commonly used.
@@Wut3225I think it is weird to force nobles or royals to squish their weird names into the very modern naming system. In Germany for example, all nobles had to adopt a new weird naming system after the monarchy was abolished in 1918. So for example Prince George Frederick of Prussia, great-great-grandson of German Emperor William II, is officially named Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preußen, with Prinz von Preußen being his surname, which obviously is BS. This means that this kind of surname changes gender for women: a daughter of His Royal Highness would have the surname Prinzessin von Preußen. It is obvious how weird that sounds, because German surnames donʼt work like that.
Semitic languages also feature patronymics such as ibn and bint in Arabic and ben and bat in Hebrew. In fact, Ashkenazi Jews in Eastern Europe often used Hebrew patronymics in everyday speech until the 19th century.
Someone may have already told this, but I will tell it as well. In Sweden, surnames are often first name-sson. (This is incidentally named Patronymic, a name based on the name of ones father/ancestor) Here is the story of how it went. Up until early 19th century only nobles had surnames and the common folk was not allowed. As the Socken (Local Church Area) was the ones to keep the taxation of the inhabitants straight, they were never more than "Johan, son of Axel, the smith." But when the taxation was centralized, everyone required surnames and had to register at the Socken church and chose a surname, this lasted until early 20th century. As most people only knew each other as "Well, that is Johan, the blacksmith's son!" many people kept to that naming convention, hence why Smithsson (Smiths son) or Johansson (Johans Son). Others chose based on where they lived, like my surname being Nordmark (Something like "North Steading" is the best translation I can give) because... Well, my ancestor was the one from the North Steading. Others picked things like "Björklund" (Birch Grove) or things like that.
My great-grandmother was Anna Matilda Carlsdottir from Västergötland, Sweden. Her daughter, my grandmother, Pitronella Frederika Peterson was the first in the family to have a "last name".
My family was briefly stopped at security at O'Hare because no one in my family had identical last names. That was until the supervisor came and went. Icelandic? Yeah yeah they're good.
So, Olafur, may I take that as an indicator that you‘re the descendant of a sailed individual who thought that the German word for scales (as in the device to weigh something) sounded cool and Continental European?
Interestingly "Waage" is apparently Scandinavian in origin, despite the fact that the letter "w" is rarely used in Scandinavian languages. The Icelandic Wikipedia even has an article about the name "Waage", which seems to suggest that the name originated in Norway.
@@gerardvanwilgen9917 Most Scandinavians doesn't understand how pronounce "W", they think it's just a "V" while being a double "U". In Swedish at least it might have to do with a "wave". The ones who have to do with the seas even if that doesn't apply to Norwegian.. But what do I know..
Thank you! Very interesting to understand how it works. Some of it we used to have in Sweden until there were to many people called the same -son name, so in the army the soldiers got names that fitted som attributes of theirs like valient, strong, healthy, paias, tall, short and so on. When one soldier died the next soldier moved into his house, often married his widow and took over the former soldier’s name, so even if you very tall your name could be Short… Then later on when all the farmers moved into the bigger cities the same problem arose so now the people could choose their sirname so many people got names with a nature theme like names of different trees, or names like brook, stream, river, mountain and so on, or they could lock in their sirname so everyone in the family was called Svensson even though the Sven that had given the name to the family was generations back. People could also make up a name that the thought sounded cool and nobody else was called and that became the new sirname for the family. Love you videos! ❤❤❤🇸🇪
Interestingly, some Icelandic people abroad have their patronymic as a family name: Erik Brynjolfsson, a Stanford professor, isn’t the son of Brynjolf, but of Ari Brynjolfsson (who invented how to make food safe with irradiation), naturalized American but born Ari Brynjólfsson (note the accent) in Iceland and son of… Brynjólfur Sigtryggsson.
Very interesting/informative video. Combined with your super chill delivery and accent made it a joy to listen to. I would love to see nore longer form content.
In Denmark, patronymics are uncommon these days but they are allowed, provided that you also have a surname at the end. It's very rare for males to have them because it would just look like any other surname in -sen. But I do have female acquaintances called Jensdatter and Herlufsdatter as their middle name.
It’s a fairly recent addition, even more recently a legislation was put forth regarding anyone being able to bear the -son, -dóttir or -bur suffix, alongside them dropping the neccessity for names being gendered on the basis of gender neutrality, but I’m not sure whether that legislation passed or not. But Bur was accepted as a suffix to patronyms/matronyms on the basis that it’s an old word meaning “Child”, giving it a gender neutral suffix for people that are non-binary or simply don’t want their last name to be gendered despite them not neccesarily being non-binary themselves
I don't have a -son name since I'm Finnish. But my dad is pretty well known in eastern Lapland, for being a municipal politician and genealogist. And since everyone in his family has the exact same nose, anyone who knows him and looks at my nose can immediately tell I'm his child. It's absolutely infuriating, trying to become known for who I am and what I do instead of who my dad is. "Whose son/daughter/child are you?" is an annoyingly common question in rural Lapland.
Great video. I remember how this patronymic system clashes with the Czech system, where female surname usually ends with -ova. I was watching some cross country skiing race and the comentators of the Czech television kept naming Kristrun GUDNADOTTIR as Kristrun GUDNADOTTIROVÁ. And I was watching it, thinking every time "It's not a f*cking surname, stop it". Well, if they knew, they may have called her "Kristrun, dcera Gudnova" (Czech for Kristrun, daughter of Gudna), which also sounds terrible to me :)
Meanwhile here in Germany (or England for example) your surname is the profession of an ancestor of yours. Or a circumstance that has something to do with aforementioned profession. My surname means something like "Farmer that has shitty land to work with". That could mean many things from "that ancestor lacked the means to get better land" or lack of knowledge for keeping good land in good condition". Think about it, the people in that blood line of my family are kinda stubborn and they sometimes lack the means of keeping something in a good condition. I guess there is a bit of truth with our surnames. In your case Olafur, you must be a very balanced person. Because Waage means Scale in german.
In The Netherlands people were forced to choose a surname when Napoleon took over. Some took it serious, some chose their profession, some thought it would be funny to call themselves “Naked born”, “Arse”, “Little shits”, “Without money” et cetera et cetera.
@@RustOnWheels Man, good old Napoleon. The holy saint of all bureaucrats, because whenever he had a little freetime, he produced enough red tape to build a rope ladder to the moon. Arse in dutch is the same as in german, Arsch, right?
My father's family name is (probably) the Norman French version of a Bretons saint's name; it is very common in Ireland, London, and the East Midlands. My mother's family name comes from a medieval English nickname for a dark-haired person. Most Welsh surnames are anglicised patronymics, but nowadays some Welsh-speaking Welsh people have revived the Welsh form; then there are Scottish clan names and Irish family names derived from patronymics. but of course, just like Germany we have names derived from professions like Clark, Farmer, Monk, Brewster (an odd one out - it's female, brewing beer was a woman's job back in the Middle Ages), and so on. My favourite weird British surname is Gotobed. Who knows where that came from?
Patronyms and how they're either forced into last names, normalized, or eliminated always fascinate me (ex. Mac, the welsh Ap/Ferch, the old english Fitz, the russian Ovich/Ovna)
- ovich/ovna - evich/evna - ich/ichna Patronyms are fascinating. When I was a child, I remember being very confused when family friend called my grandmother Vasilevna and she responded to it. Concept of middle name vaguely existed in my brain at the time, thanks to an aunt who would jokingly refer to me with a combo of full name and middle name (like I was some respected adult). But it never occur to me that Middle name could be used separately (and of course I didn't know my grandmother middle name). So, it's kinda fascinating to find out that Icelanders kinda "none-using" them the same way we do. In a sense, in your day-to-day life you wouldn't call your friend/colleague by their middle name. In our case, most of the time you don't even know their middle name... I mean, I still remember middle names of all my elementary school teachers; 3 or 5 uni professors; my 1st boss; and whole 2 best friends... cause I met their parents in person)))
06:29 It was not unheard of people having matronymic names back a thousand years ago. Incredibly, incredibly rare, but not unheard of. Hrafna-Flóki had the last name Vilgerðarson, Vilgerður being the name of his mother.
I thoroughly enjoy being able to (mostly) follow your Icelandic with English. Not the words themselves but just how they flow 😊 my biological grandparents were those bloody Danes, tho I’m grateful for my curiosity in languages in general and where that’s led me. Have a great Yule, Merry Christmas, I hope you get to eat much rye bread!
This was extremely interesting. I know the names Björk Guðmundsdóttir and Hildur Guðnadóttir and I always wondered how those surnames work, given that they are clearly women's surnames - but then what are their fathers' surnames for example. I was confused. Now I understand the naming system much better. Thank you.
@@pelleoh I'm talking about Guðmundsdóttir and Guðnadóttir. I originally assumed those were standard surnames -- but ending in *dóttir ?! Clearly they are meant for women (someone's daughter). Thanks to this video I now understand they are NOT really surnames (family names) that would be shared between both men and women.
Did "the king" refer to the actual king of Denmark, though? In Sweden up to the 70's we used to address grievances and other messages to "Kungl. Majt." (short for Kunglig Majestät, "Royal Majesty") when we sent letters to e.g. the government.
It’s fascinating that rules for names are quite strict in Iceland. I am familiar with Americans being flabbergasted that Germany does not allow EVERYTHING parents seem to come up with but actually the rules are rather lax (the gender should be clear from the name - or at least one of the names - and the name should not be harmful for the kid) but this already seems to be super weird for some people. And then you lot come along and demand accordance with grammar and spelling and whatnot :) I just love this stuff :)
In Shetland (Hjaltland) the patrynomic and matrynomic naming convention continued until the mid 1700's. From 1735 the British Government clamped down on it and forced the population to conform with the rest of the UK under pain of imprisonment and loss of children
I do find it rather ironic they brought back family names that were originally also patronymic, such as Hansen (Hans-son) and acted like they were fancy new concepts.
Ah so this is why Eiður Guðjohnsen’s family use Guðjohnsen as a family name. We used to use to do that with our names in Wales too. We used Ap to denote son of so Ieuan Ap Hywel, was Ieuan son of Hywel. Went away a long time ago now unfortunately.
We had this in Sweden not so long ago, e g Johansson and Johansdotter as the children of Johan. It is only like the latest 100 years or so that we stopped this and people started having family names of Johansson (my father's last name when he was born) and Andersson and Eriksson and so on. I can see this in my family tree right up to the end of the 1800's. I would have been Georgsson with the old system.
Would've been interesting to also mention how in famous spectator sports like football, the Icelandic players are wearing shirts with the name of their fathers instead of their own names in international games. And for the fans at home it's just confusing, since they are always refered to by their first name.
Very interesting! Looking at that list of fancy names, I see 1) Waage/Vaage was one of thos fancy names; 2) Zoega was as well - that finally (partly) answers the question why Geir T. Zoëga, the author of the Old Icelandic dictionary, didn't go by a normal Icelandic patronymic (but the T. stood for Tómasson, Wikidata tells me!).
Oh, no no no, you misunderstand. I'm not a peasant! I'm not Hanson, the son of Hans. I'm Hansen, from the house belonging to Hans (Hans is my father, that's why I grew up in his house.)
I worked In Iceland in the 1970's and found the naming conventions really simple, my boss was Valar Magnusson, his father was Magnus Valarsson as was his son, and to find someone in the phone book you looked up the name and added to that was their occupation so you knew who was who.
Thank you for a great video. Coming from Australia we a a multitude of different first and last names. Some have meanings reflecting different aspects of family, my middle name and family name was my father's, some reflect past family vocations like Smith meaning someone in the past was a blacksmith or especially in Australia illegitimate children who's father's name was not know were also given the family name of Smith.
Some rural areas in Norway kept to the patronymic tradition even into the earliest 1900’s. Anecdotally, people at my mom’s birth place doing their everyday work when she was quite young, she was born 1939. Just one generation before her, the «last» father’s name stuck with her mother - and I carry that as my first name (no tradition, just mom’s idea back in ‘1966). This place is on the east coast less than two hours from Oslo today. Not too remote from «modernity» around 1900… 😅
The “who are your forefathers” questions are/were common in a lot of places. I grew up in the southern USA and when I grew up, anytime you meet someone new without an introduction by someone else, they ask “Which [last name]’s are you from? Oh, you’re [father/mother full name] who grew up with [aunt/uncle]? Ok then.” It is far less common today though. I remember that happening multiple times in the Divine Comedy by Dante, and that was from the 1300’s Italy! I want to say I remember it being a big deal in places/countries where civil wars were common so you knew whose side the new person you met was on.
Great video! Add me to the list of students that forgot to change my peasant Icelandic name to something more continental like Hansen lol. tbh I probably would've picked Svenson.
Yes it is fascinating. German names also used to follow a declension (cf. Goetheʼs Werther: Lotte, Lottes, Lotten) Latin names also must follow a declension: Julius, Julī, Julii, Julio, Julium, Juliō or Tertia, Tertia, Tertiae, Tertiae, Tertiam, Tertiā
Hm nah not really. For example a Minister in the Hessian state government has the surname Mansoori, which has Iranian roots. But it is spelled according to English orthography, which I find to be mildly annoying. I think foreigners should have an easier time adjusting their names to German orthography, e.g.: Mansuri.
In Norway, the patronymic names sort of got stuck as family names ending in "sen". To avoid too many families with identical names, the government even made a long list of plausible but fake names that sounded like Norwegian farms, so people could just take one of those as a family name without annoying an existing family. If a family name is very rare, you are not allowed to switch to it if you think you old one sucks, but most names are free. For first names, we have the same golden rule as mentioned in the video, so you can't name your daughter Poopypants, even if it seems like it suits her perfectly.
In the library I couldn't find the books written by Arnaldur Indriðason. They told me to look under the letter 'A' as those are sorted by the Icelandic system. But why? We're in the Netherlands, where names are sorted primarily by family name, but all of the sudden Icelandic names are sorted by the Icelandic system? They thought it would be more 'authentic', but I'm a bit confused. Nice touch, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around it to date.
Being protective of such heritage-type things is often looked down upon these days, but it's good to see that Iceland is protective of its unique language.
This is so interesting, I have recently listened several novel books that are located to Iceland (both from Finnish and Icelandic authors) and this 'name thingy' has baffled me 🤣
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Theyre like that because of the jam on the side
It's a must.
@@olafurw Ahh, but is it a påskmust or julmust; that's the real question
@@LiveAnotherDaveActually well the realer question is; does it go well with a lefse
All the "jam on the side" was an old method of trying to get enough Vit C in the winter. Rose hips were especially good for that. Preserve as many fruits as possible, by making as much jam as possible during the short summers. Also, most berries were foraged, so gathering and preserving was time consuming. Jam, must have been very important !
The most disturbing thing about this video is that written Icelandic is not incomprehensible to me. I had some smattering of old Norse in secondary school, but I never truly learnt it. I have never studied French or Spanish, but I can read some. I would not be as surprised if I read and understood an instruction written in French. Perhaps the familiar sentence structure facilitates my understanding.
I love that all your examples of "fancy european names" are just Danish patronyms instead of Icelandic ones.
My great grandmother immigrated from Iceland to Canada with her parents. Her name was Ingebjord but went by Emma. Her father's name was Bergthor but she went by the last name Johnson which was her father's (Kjartansson) anglicised name. So instead of Ingebjorg Bergthordottir we got Emma Johnson. Genealogy is a nightmare (but Iceland kept excellent records)
Thank goodness for that! *waves from the Borgfjord and Gunnnarson side of New Iceland*
Could it have been, "Ingibjörg" originally, but later anglicised to Ingebjord? I've never heard that name, but I know quite a few Ingibjörg. Including my mother in law!
Ingibjörg was born and baptized in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada in 1891. Her parents and 2 oldest sisters emigrated from Seyðisfjörður in 1888.
Upon her father's death in 1936 his wife was still alive but in ill health.
Oldest daughter Helga Johnson lived in Vancouver.
Elin Newell in Aberdeen WA USA.
Jorunn Christina Wolfe in Winnipeg.
Ingibjörg Emma Whitworth in Winnipeg.
Mary Dawes in Winnipeg.
Berþór Kjartansson (Johnson) b. 17 april 1852 on the farm Sandbrekka in the northeast of Iceland was the son of Kjartan Jónsson b. 30 june 1802, son of Jón Bergþórsson b. 1752, son of Bergþór Stefánsson b. ~1720
Jóhanna Ólafsdóttir (Emma's mother) was born in Steinsnes, Seyðisfjörður to Ólafur Guttormsson b. 6 june 1813 and Helga Vilhjálmsdóttir b. 29 december 1825. Her parents both emigrated to the Americas in 1889.
@@bjarnisigurdsson1911 That makes a lot of sense! According to Íslendingabók, Bergþór Kjartansson emigrated to the western world in 1888 from Háfnefsstaðir in Seyðisfjörður (East Iceland). According to Priest Einar, who kept the record, he was a handsome man
Incidentally, he was my great grandfather's fifth cousin 😄
Hello, resident Faroe Peasant here. 🇫🇴
We have almost exactly the same naming standards, except that we almost always have family names. Patronyms and matronyms are usually only reserved to middle names.
For example, Jóhan Martinsson Joensen.
We can invent new Family names. In fact, my family and i did this. The rules are the same as for Iceland. The name must be considered traditionally Faroese, it needs to work, grammatically, and it can't be considered rude.
Two of my uncles were given Patronyms, and they don't have my grandfather's last name.
The ruling body for this is quite new in the Faroes. I'm not sure exactly when it was established, but it's some time in the last 20 years. They also dictate how you are to pronounce your name.
Toponymic last names should also be included when discussing Faroese last names. They have old roots, became less common during amtmannstíðin (the time of the greatest Danish influence), but are now common again.
Examples from the current squads of the Faroese National Handball and National Football teams: Norðberg, av Teigum, á Skipagøtu, Mittún, Klakstein, Lamhauge, á Reynatrøð, Vatnhamar, Færø (also common during amtmannstíðini), Kallsberg, Klettskarð, Bjartalíð. There are many other examples as well, just easier to use names from published squads.
Wonder why Icelanders never went big on toponymic last names. There have been some prominent examples, such as Laxness, Eldjárn and Hafstein, but definitely not as common as it is in the Faroes.
Read something close to that from a swede below... As a German you sometimes loose your brains about all those Müller, Maier, Schröder names (not sure about the correct word for that, but they are basically derived from someones occupation or profession at a time. Some more obvious like Müller, in Englisch the comparable name would be Miller, and others today not easily recognized like that, because that job either vanished or uses a different name today), and their varieties. But like a quarter of the country being somone Johansson... thats a whole different level...
@@NorlanderGT incidentally, the name my family and I changed to is a Toponym, and it is exclusive to us.
love the long-form content!
agree, it was interesting.
Fascinating stuff.
- a non-Icelandic person with a decidedly non-fancy European last name.
How fancy and posh and upper class of you.
My Great Grandfather came over (Jóhann Jónsson) and worked in the logging camps in Northern Manitoba. He said people with similar sounding names were stealing his pay. So he changed his last name to Hrappstead named after the farm he was from.
Reminiscent of a naming system used in Dalarna in Sweden in older times (and still allowed, apparently). Name of farm, person name, patronymic. Used because everyone just used the same names. Erik Jonsson, yes but which one? Ah, the one from the Maria farm. Maria Erik Jonsson. Yes, the first name can thus be the "wrong" gender and no-one local bats an eye.
Best case I've head of: Bengt Bengt Bengtsson. Even did radio interview, apparently it can create issues at airports :D
@@GustavSvard Many English last names are either based on location (Hamilton, London, etc.) or profession (Baker, Smith, Carpenter etc.).
But many are also patronymic (Johnson, Anderson, Thompson etc), they are just not used in the same way anymore.
A large amount of Scandinavian surnames (Hansen, Jacobsen, Olsen) are clearly patronymic to begin with.
It was relatively recently that Sweden moved away from the traditional naming system, similar to Iceland's today. On my dad's side, my family adopted fixed surnames in the 1850s, while on my mom's side, it happened closer to 1900. However, the challenges with the son/dottir naming system had been apparent for centuries before that.
One major issue was the sheer number of people with identical names, especially since it was common to name the first son after his father. For instance, you’d have Erik Jonsson, son of Jon Eriksson, who was himself the son of Erik Jonsson, and so on. Names like Erik and Jon were extremely common, leading to situations where you might have multiple “Erik Jonssons” in a single village-or worse, in the same military platoon.
To address this, Sweden developed the soldier naming system (soldatnamn). Soldiers were assigned unique bynames to distinguish them in military records. These names often reflected personal traits, animals, or objects, such as Oxe (Ox), Fjäril (Butterfly), or Kämpe (Champion). If a soldier liked their assigned name, they might keep it after their service, turning it into a family surname.
In rural areas, gårdsnamn (farm names) were another way to resolve the confusion. These names could be added either before or after a person’s patronymic. For example, someone might be called "Lillgårda Erik Jonsson" or "Erik Jonsson Lillgårda" to show their connection to the farm Lillgården. The farm name often bent grammatically to indicate affiliation, much like a descriptor, linking the person to their place of origin or residence.
Also it was fairly common with more than one middle name, and when names would conflict in a village, you just used another of your given names as the patronymic. So Karl Erik Johan Petterson could have kids with a total of six different surnames.. All of them fairly common of course.. Weee :D
@MrZnarffy
My grandfather and his sister (born in the 30s) were told by Skatteverket (the taxministry) sometime in the 50s that they had to choose if they wanted to keep their old -son/-dotter surnames and make them their family names or if they wanted to choose something else for their surnames. A lot of people in our area didn't like naming their daughters something that ended in -son so they opted to take the name of the vårdträd at their farm or something similar, some families did the transition earlier but that's one of the explanations for the surnames Björk (birch), Ask (ash), Lönn (maple), Ek (oak) and so on.
@@helenahsson1697 Yeah, even though my father was born after the family name had sorta been chosen, he was still only written down with his given names in churchbooks, and this was in the late 1920s. By then having a surname was in the law, but still not completely adapted yet..
Thanks for the informative comment! I learned just today that it's still legal to give your child a patronymic instead of a surname in Sweden, even if it's still very uncommon. I was reading about the history of the Pirate Party in the Europarliament when I realized their first ever MEP (from Sweden) had no surname. Up until now I thought that was a only thing in Iceland in this day and age. Then this video gets recommended to me and I went looking in the comments to learn more about the naming conventions in other Nordic countries. 😅
Fixed surnames don't really make full names more distinguished from one another. It works well in my case, because barely anyone has my last name, but if the names you have are common, it's a problem, regardless of whether your last name is fixed or not. If half the population is called Nguyen or something, it's not exactly helpful.
Fixed surnames don't really make full names more distinguished from one another. It works well in my case, because barely anyone has my last name, but if the names you have are common, it's a problem, regardless of whether your last name is fixed or not. If half the population is called Nguyen or something, it's not exactly helpful.
All of my children (all daughters, just the way it worked out) are adopted. But to point out and emphasize that they have a permanent home with us I will often call a child '(her first name) Danasdottir'.
We are family.
I will say the patronymic naming system really helps when it comes to genealogy. I have deep Norwegian and Swedish roots, and while by the time they came to the States, the Swedes regardless of gender had adopted Peterson as a family name, I am able to trace further back tracing the -son and -dottir names. The Norwegian who came, used the patronymic name of Oleson as his middle name and the name of the farm where his family lived as his family name. But again, that Oleson as a middle name helped me trace the roots. Also, it helps that people at that time tended to stay in the area they were born.
The first name-patronymic-farm naming convention was extremely common in Norway in the 19th century, but for potential genealogists out there it is worth mentioning that the farm is *whatever farm they currently occupy*. People might change last names several times as they move, and this also means that you will see husbands taking their wives last names in cases where the couple move to the wife’s family’s farm.
@@johanmildethanks for that info. There’s a Norwegian-American library about an hour from me, I need to go there one of these days and do some research in “farm books”.
Swede here, did I understand you correctly that Swedes that came to the States primarily in the 1800s adopted the last name Peterson regardless if that was their native Swedish last name back home?
@ no, just my direct ancestors adopted Peterson as their family name.
yeah, modern Swedish names are sometimes a bit confusing - everybody is either Pet(t)erson, Svenson or Johanson…
"Hello? Yes, this is Gunnar Gunnarsson. Is this about my son, Gunnar Gunnarssonsson?"
Is this from a video i watched? 😳
The redhead funny man?
“There has been another murder.”
@@pohjanvanamo Yeah, Alasdair Beckett-King
@@swisski The killer could be anyone in Helgasund. That's over 7 people!
"No it's about your daughter, Gunna Gunnarsondottir"
The best known Icelandic person to people in the UK is the late TV presenter Magnus Magnusson. He was actually born Magnus Sigursteinsson, the son of Sigursteinn Magnússon but spent most of his life in Scotland and his family adopted the British naming convention and used his father's patronymic as a surname. Thus his daughter, also a TV presenter, was called Sally Magnusson and not Magnusdottir. Her married name is Stone and her son is film director Jamie Magnus Stone, which almost sounds like a patronymic itself.
And to confuse matters, there is also a Magnús Ver Magnússon, who was the World Storngest Man in the 90s. And just looking this up, there's another Magnús Magnússon, also a Strong Man, but not quite as strong. But I've started, so now I'll finish
I was looking for somebody to mention Magnus Magnusson. I didn't know it was more complicated than that.
That sounds like Magnus named his house Jamie: Jamie Magnusstone 🙃
There is also Premier League player Eiður Guðjohnsen.
I have spent so much time on the Wikipedia page for Icelandic names, so I like this video.
The patronymic naming system occurs in other countries too. Malays in Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei have patronyms, not surnames. Ahmad bin Hasan and Hasnah binte Hasan are the son and daughter of Hasan. Most Indonesians don't have surnames but may adopt a patronym to satisfy Saudi authorities when they go for Hajj. The Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto doesn’t have a surname. That's just the double name that his parents gave him. He's addressed as Mr Prabowo.
Same in Russian and other Eastern Slavic languages-“Ivanovich” = “son of Ivan”, “Ivanovna” = “daughter of Ivan”
Every single time I see and hear Icelanðic, my mind immediately thinks of Old English or Old Norse. Your language and names are very cool.
every time I stumble across your stuff I always leave thinking "this guy is actually pretty interesting. I have to subscribe" and then I wind up forgetting to subscribe. time to fix that right now.
An Icelandic dorm mate of mine when studying in Japan told us of travelling to the US with his parents and brother. Upon arrival, they were separated for 2-3 hours, had to have the embassy call and explain the naming convention and confirm their identities with the registrar in Iceland, and were interrogated in the meantime, because the last names didn't match up, and the customs officers were worried it was a case of child trafficking because both boys were minors under 16...😅
Great way to start your US holiday...😅
In Spain people have 2 surnames. The father's surname and the mother's. It used to be the father's name first but recently people can choose the order.
Older people all had Catholic saint names. There are loads of Marias, Antonios etc. Pepe is 'short' for Josef. Because Joseph was only the putative father of Jesus. Padre Putativo or PP. Francisco was shortened to Paco
No one seems to know why.
Lots of women are called Mari Carmen, Maria or Pilar, for Maria del Pilar or ''the support of life chosen by God'.
Mar is for Maria del Mar. So many women's names are variations on a theme. 😅
Ohmygod. Thank you for finally explaining how Pepe is the nickname for Jose. The Philippines inherited a lot of Spanish naming conventions.
It’s not from an acronym, just a regular sound change between /f/ and /p/ and reduplication. ‘Jose-pe’ → ‘Pe-pe’ like Italian ‘Giuseppe’ → ‘Peppe’. ‘Fra-ncis-co’ → ‘Pa-co’ also involves a cluster reduction of /pr/ to /p/, like ‘puncto’ → ‘punto’ reduces /kt/ to /t/; compare Basque ‘Patxi’ as a nickname for ‘Frantzisko’.
Really cool! England had a plethora of different names - and names from different sources - that just go down through generations, although originally they meant something (Johnson, Robinson, Thompson are patronymics, Baker, Smith, Brewer are occupational names - things like that). I'm an English person with (apparently) an old-fashioned sounding Danish name. Or an old-fashioned Danish-sounding name, something like that, which is also a place-name in England.
I think Iceland is one of the few places left where surnames depend on the parents' names, and that is so cool - something very Icelandic, I think.
Patronymic names still persist in Wales, though they're rare nowadays. One simply inserts "ap" (a corruption of 'mab' - 'son') or 'merch' ('daughter/girl') between the given name and the father's name: Ioan ap Griffydd (Ioan son of Gryffydd); Catryn merch Tomos (Catryn daughter of Tomos).
What a wonderfully education video. Thank you for explaining this, it is fascinating and I really enjoy your cheerful tone when you talk about your culture
So glad you decided to make full videos about the Icelandic culture and society!
As a massive fan of all things Icelandic and also trying to learn the language, I find the whole naming system and declension of names fascinating. I’ve even seen them decline foreign names - Kamölu is a recent one I’ve spotted.
Thanks for the informative videos.
I have of course no clue of how far you are on your Icelandic learning journey, but if you’re still somewhere near the beginning I need to tell you about Alaric Hall’s audio course. Just google his name and Icelandic and you’ll find it. It’s free and it’s great. It got me to the point where I could read a book for middle schoolers after two weeks (though of course only with dictionary).
@ Hi, thanks for telling me about this resource. I’m pretty much a beginner at Icelandic so I’ll definitely check it out. I’ve just had a quick browse of the website on my phone but might have to use my laptop to download the mp3s.
Thanks again 😀
If you are speaking Icelandic you still have to decline foreign names or it will lead to confusion.
@@BR-jt6ny Firstly a disclaimer: While I'm spending about 4 hours a day listening to and speaking with Icelanders, I'm not Icelandic myself, I don't live there, it's not my language (although I do love it to bits).
Now for your question:
It depends a lot on the individual name. If the name is one that can be declined according to usual Icelandic rules, most people will decline them automatically without thinking about it. Some names just don't lend themselves to it very nicely, so people will just awkwardly use it as is.
I, for example, am not Icelandic, but my name is a woman's name that ends with an a. This is very handy. Kira, um Kiru (about Kira, þolfall/accusative), frá Kiru (from Kira, þágufall/dative), til Kiru (to Kira's, eignarfall/genitive).
My sister's name is Lilli. This, in Icelandic, means little one, but for something masculine. So her name is very awkward. You could decline it the same way as little one, but then it might mean that you're implying she's a boy... So I would probably just call her Lilli and then have Lillis as possessive.
@@ninijuraI’m guessing It’s pronounced similar to Lily right? If so it could be changed to Lillý which is allowed, or going further, change it to Lilja which is the Icelandic equivelant to Lily. Otherwise, yes, Lilli is a masculine word for someone/something that’s small, so it would be doubtful that it would be accepted as is for a female name
Ólafur, this was soOOooo good, fun, and interesting. I want MORE!
I did learn something. Very well explained and very interesting.
As a Swede, I have a patronymic name as a middle name. My father liked the old practice, so he applied it for me and my siblings but as a middle name, since patronymic names as a family name have, as I understand it, been outlawed here because it was deemed confusing (also we have a family name that I think he wanted to pass on as well). So I am "Name Middlename1 son Familyname". I usually go by just "Name Familyname" though, because it's more convenient.
Some of our surnames have a similar origin in Dutch. The most common surname we have is Jansen/Janssen. Which literally comes from the son of Jan, which was a very popular first name for boys for a very long time. Patronyms are very common. Matronyms are far less common to have survived, but we still have some. It's also only in 1811 that every Dutch person had a surname, when Napoleon made it into law that we should all have one. Patronyms were very popular at that time as well, but so were geographical surnames (van Leiden = from the city Leiden) and job related surnames (Schilder = painter). There are some theories the weirder surnames are also from that time. Made up by people who thought that silly surname stuff would go away with time. Weird names like Naaktgeboren (born naked) and Pannekoek (pancake). But they usually are traced back to different eras and the names were given for different reasons.
Anyway, patronyms and matronyms are actually a very good naming convention. And I think a lot of countries could use a first name commity. For example, just look at the weird names some "celebrities" come up with.
I'm learning so much from your channel
Thank you.
This is the first video of yours I have stumbled upon - but you earned my instant sub for your self-description of 'certified dork' 😂
I have the paperwork and everything.
We have a similar thing with the "whose people are you" here in the south west of Germany A question all children hear all the time, if they come from the black forest is "wem g'härsch du", which means "to who to you belong". And the answer all children will give you is "Mama und Papa". Once they say what the name of mom and dad are, the old granny, or whoever asked the question will immediately go through all the people they know and try to put them somewhere in this spiderweb of relationships. That just isn't really a thing elsewhere in Germany.
that was a very evocative telling.
It kind of happens in other regions, too.
Last month I (adult) ate cake with the elderly in some Franconian village. The first question they asked me was to whom I am related. So I had to explain my lineage in detail until they finally heard a name of someone they used to know. Funny
I come from the Ruhrgebiet and I think we are not so much into this anymore. When I was a child I was asked something like that by a neighbor of my grandmother too and when I said my name he answered „Oh…Musterfrau Marianne ihre Tochter“ (name is of course different), referring to my mothers maiden name.
Ólafur, that case 66/2024 regarding Hroði is from an adult man, a singer of the metal band Une Misere. He really wanted to change his name to this and mannanafnanefnd denied him that.
This is truly fascinating!! Thanks for making it informative and fun! Still can't get over the fact that your name needs to go through an approval process!
Very informative and entertaining. Thank's for giving a window into your culture.
My german lastname is apparently of scandinavian origin. My father said once he looked at a phone book out of curiosity and found 7 pages of our lastname in a Swedish phone book. There are only 2 unrelated families with my lastname in my city which is quite sizable.
"-Bur" doesn't have the same obvious English counterpart as "-Dóttir" or "-Son", so in case anyone else was wondering, it means "child", cognate with Scottish-English "bairn", or "barn" in the other Scandinavian languages.
From Old Norse burr meaning descendant or child-of. "Bearing children". In Icelandic Twin is Tvíburi.
I was wondering if it was cognate with bairn. According to Wiktionary, you have to go all the way back to Proto-Indo-European for them to be connected. "Bur" is cognate with the Old English "byre", which doesn't have a modern descendant. "Bairn" is cognate with the Icelandic "barn". They all mean either "child" or "son" and ultimately come from the Proto-Indo-European word for bear/carry.
it is not really cognate (etymologically the same word), that would be barn, the normal icelandic word for a child
but bur IS related to barn, both from the root of "to bear", as in "to bear a child"
Great video, Olafur! Do more long - form content, it's great. I am Ukrainian, but love geography and history of other countries :)
That's the idea, now if only I had more time :D
A last a clear explanation! Thank you.
This is just fuel for my DnD characters and worldbuilding. One day I'll put a party through some border patrol officer, making them adjust to the naming rules conventions of the nation they are visiting, just for the common folk not addering to this rules and making them look weird.
In Denmark we also used patronymic names until we ‘froze’ them more than a century ago. However, when king Frederik X studied at Harvard in the 90’s he enrolled as Frederik Henriksen, because his father was Prince Consort Henrik.
Intresting. In the UK, prince and princesses don’t officially have surnames, but generally use their parent’s title. So Prince William when the son of the Prince of Wales, when he joined the RAF was called William Wales.
There is the legal surname of Mountbatten-Windsor that they can use, but it’s not commonly used.
@@Wut3225I think it is weird to force nobles or royals to squish their weird names into the very modern naming system. In Germany for example, all nobles had to adopt a new weird naming system after the monarchy was abolished in 1918. So for example Prince George Frederick of Prussia, great-great-grandson of German Emperor William II, is officially named Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preußen, with Prinz von Preußen being his surname, which obviously is BS. This means that this kind of surname changes gender for women: a daughter of His Royal Highness would have the surname Prinzessin von Preußen. It is obvious how weird that sounds, because German surnames donʼt work like that.
Semitic languages also feature patronymics such as ibn and bint in Arabic and ben and bat in Hebrew. In fact, Ashkenazi Jews in Eastern Europe often used Hebrew patronymics in everyday speech until the 19th century.
Interesting
A lot of Malays in Malaysia also have Arabic-style patronyms (bin/binti + father's first name) instead of family names
@duitseles9687 so Malaysian languages donʼt have retained native names?
@deutschermichel5807 Most Malays in Malaysia have Arab-style names. In Indonesia it's a different matter.
Danke!
much love
Someone may have already told this, but I will tell it as well. In Sweden, surnames are often first name-sson. (This is incidentally named Patronymic, a name based on the name of ones father/ancestor)
Here is the story of how it went. Up until early 19th century only nobles had surnames and the common folk was not allowed. As the Socken (Local Church Area) was the ones to keep the taxation of the inhabitants straight, they were never more than "Johan, son of Axel, the smith."
But when the taxation was centralized, everyone required surnames and had to register at the Socken church and chose a surname, this lasted until early 20th century. As most people only knew each other as "Well, that is Johan, the blacksmith's son!" many people kept to that naming convention, hence why Smithsson (Smiths son) or Johansson (Johans Son).
Others chose based on where they lived, like my surname being Nordmark (Something like "North Steading" is the best translation I can give) because... Well, my ancestor was the one from the North Steading. Others picked things like "Björklund" (Birch Grove) or things like that.
My great-grandmother was Anna Matilda Carlsdottir from Västergötland, Sweden. Her daughter, my grandmother, Pitronella Frederika Peterson was the first in the family to have a "last name".
"Well, this is Iceland. But no."
Loved your shorts, this longer format was also great hope you’ll continue doing them
So informative! Very cool. Keep it up. I always enjoy your content, regardless of the format, topic and “genre”.
My family was briefly stopped at security at O'Hare because no one in my family had identical last names. That was until the supervisor came and went.
Icelandic? Yeah yeah they're good.
Finally, long form content.
So, Olafur, may I take that as an indicator that you‘re the descendant of a sailed individual who thought that the German word for scales (as in the device to weigh something) sounded cool and Continental European?
You do know that all Scandinavian languages are all germanic right? That doesn't mean that they have a German root, just Germanic.
Interestingly "Waage" is apparently Scandinavian in origin, despite the fact that the letter "w" is rarely used in Scandinavian languages. The Icelandic Wikipedia even has an article about the name "Waage", which seems to suggest that the name originated in Norway.
@@gerardvanwilgen9917 Most Scandinavians doesn't understand how pronounce "W", they think it's just a "V" while being a double "U". In Swedish at least it might have to do with a "wave". The ones who have to do with the seas even if that doesn't apply to Norwegian.. But what do I know..
@@gerardvanwilgen9917 And yes, a scale is another possible meaning to "Waage".
@@gerardvanwilgen9917 W was used a lot in the past before we had spelling rules.
Thank you! Very interesting to understand how it works. Some of it we used to have in Sweden until there were to many people called the same -son name, so in the army the soldiers got names that fitted som attributes of theirs like valient, strong, healthy, paias, tall, short and so on. When one soldier died the next soldier moved into his house, often married his widow and took over the former soldier’s name, so even if you very tall your name could be Short… Then later on when all the farmers moved into the bigger cities the same problem arose so now the people could choose their sirname so many people got names with a nature theme like names of different trees, or names like brook, stream, river, mountain and so on, or they could lock in their sirname so everyone in the family was called Svensson even though the Sven that had given the name to the family was generations back. People could also make up a name that the thought sounded cool and nobody else was called and that became the new sirname for the family. Love you videos! ❤❤❤🇸🇪
Interestingly, some Icelandic people abroad have their patronymic as a family name: Erik Brynjolfsson, a Stanford professor, isn’t the son of Brynjolf, but of Ari Brynjolfsson (who invented how to make food safe with irradiation), naturalized American but born Ari Brynjólfsson (note the accent) in Iceland and son of… Brynjólfur Sigtryggsson.
Very interesting/informative video. Combined with your super chill delivery and accent made it a joy to listen to. I would love to see nore longer form content.
I am Icelandic and I learnt something. Keep doing stuff like this!! ❤❤
In Denmark, patronymics are uncommon these days but they are allowed, provided that you also have a surname at the end. It's very rare for males to have them because it would just look like any other surname in -sen. But I do have female acquaintances called Jensdatter and Herlufsdatter as their middle name.
Denne var god, Ólafur.
Great video! I didn’t know about the gender neutral version of the naming convention.
It’s a fairly recent addition, even more recently a legislation was put forth regarding anyone being able to bear the -son, -dóttir or -bur suffix, alongside them dropping the neccessity for names being gendered on the basis of gender neutrality, but I’m not sure whether that legislation passed or not. But Bur was accepted as a suffix to patronyms/matronyms on the basis that it’s an old word meaning “Child”, giving it a gender neutral suffix for people that are non-binary or simply don’t want their last name to be gendered despite them not neccesarily being non-binary themselves
gay nonsense
I don't have a -son name since I'm Finnish. But my dad is pretty well known in eastern Lapland, for being a municipal politician and genealogist. And since everyone in his family has the exact same nose, anyone who knows him and looks at my nose can immediately tell I'm his child. It's absolutely infuriating, trying to become known for who I am and what I do instead of who my dad is. "Whose son/daughter/child are you?" is an annoyingly common question in rural Lapland.
I think the Christmas Cat should sort it out & if they survive, then so does their name. Harsh, but fair.
Great video. I remember how this patronymic system clashes with the Czech system, where female surname usually ends with -ova. I was watching some cross country skiing race and the comentators of the Czech television kept naming Kristrun GUDNADOTTIR as Kristrun GUDNADOTTIROVÁ. And I was watching it, thinking every time "It's not a f*cking surname, stop it". Well, if they knew, they may have called her "Kristrun, dcera Gudnova" (Czech for Kristrun, daughter of Gudna), which also sounds terrible to me :)
1:16 Any "naming committee" called "Mannanafnanefnd" should disqualify itself.
lol, true. It looks insane.
It’s a compound noun consisting of manna-nafna-nefnd. Something like “human/people naming committee”
Doo doo doo-doo-doo
@@Lemonz1989 I'll take your word for it.
Meanwhile here in Germany (or England for example) your surname is the profession of an ancestor of yours. Or a circumstance that has something to do with aforementioned profession. My surname means something like "Farmer that has shitty land to work with". That could mean many things from "that ancestor lacked the means to get better land" or lack of knowledge for keeping good land in good condition". Think about it, the people in that blood line of my family are kinda stubborn and they sometimes lack the means of keeping something in a good condition. I guess there is a bit of truth with our surnames.
In your case Olafur, you must be a very balanced person. Because Waage means Scale in german.
In The Netherlands people were forced to choose a surname when Napoleon took over. Some took it serious, some chose their profession, some thought it would be funny to call themselves “Naked born”, “Arse”, “Little shits”, “Without money” et cetera et cetera.
@@RustOnWheels Man, good old Napoleon. The holy saint of all bureaucrats, because whenever he had a little freetime, he produced enough red tape to build a rope ladder to the moon. Arse in dutch is the same as in german, Arsch, right?
@ almost: it’s Aars.
My father's family name is (probably) the Norman French version of a Bretons saint's name; it is very common in Ireland, London, and the East Midlands. My mother's family name comes from a medieval English nickname for a dark-haired person. Most Welsh surnames are anglicised patronymics, but nowadays some Welsh-speaking Welsh people have revived the Welsh form; then there are Scottish clan names and Irish family names derived from patronymics. but of course, just like Germany we have names derived from professions like Clark, Farmer, Monk, Brewster (an odd one out - it's female, brewing beer was a woman's job back in the Middle Ages), and so on. My favourite weird British surname is Gotobed. Who knows where that came from?
@@RustOnWheels I ❤ Netherlanders.😁
Patronyms and how they're either forced into last names, normalized, or eliminated always fascinate me (ex. Mac, the welsh Ap/Ferch, the old english Fitz, the russian Ovich/Ovna)
- ovich/ovna
- evich/evna
- ich/ichna
Patronyms are fascinating. When I was a child, I remember being very confused when family friend called my grandmother Vasilevna and she responded to it.
Concept of middle name vaguely existed in my brain at the time, thanks to an aunt who would jokingly refer to me with a combo of full name and middle name (like I was some respected adult). But it never occur to me that Middle name could be used separately (and of course I didn't know my grandmother middle name).
So, it's kinda fascinating to find out that Icelanders kinda "none-using" them the same way we do. In a sense, in your day-to-day life you wouldn't call your friend/colleague by their middle name. In our case, most of the time you don't even know their middle name... I mean, I still remember middle names of all my elementary school teachers; 3 or 5 uni professors; my 1st boss; and whole 2 best friends... cause I met their parents in person)))
06:29
It was not unheard of people having matronymic names back a thousand years ago. Incredibly, incredibly rare, but not unheard of. Hrafna-Flóki had the last name Vilgerðarson, Vilgerður being the name of his mother.
I thoroughly enjoy being able to (mostly) follow your Icelandic with English. Not the words themselves but just how they flow 😊 my biological grandparents were those bloody Danes, tho I’m grateful for my curiosity in languages in general and where that’s led me. Have a great Yule, Merry Christmas, I hope you get to eat much rye bread!
This was extremely interesting.
I know the names Björk Guðmundsdóttir and Hildur Guðnadóttir and I always wondered how those surnames work, given that they are clearly women's surnames - but then what are their fathers' surnames for example. I was confused.
Now I understand the naming system much better. Thank you.
What are you talking about? Guðmund and Guðni are MALE first names
@@pelleoh I'm talking about Guðmundsdóttir and Guðnadóttir. I originally assumed those were standard surnames -- but ending in *dóttir ?! Clearly they are meant for women (someone's daughter). Thanks to this video I now understand they are NOT really surnames (family names) that would be shared between both men and women.
Did "the king" refer to the actual king of Denmark, though? In Sweden up to the 70's we used to address grievances and other messages to "Kungl. Majt." (short for Kunglig Majestät, "Royal Majesty") when we sent letters to e.g. the government.
It’s fascinating that rules for names are quite strict in Iceland. I am familiar with Americans being flabbergasted that Germany does not allow EVERYTHING parents seem to come up with but actually the rules are rather lax (the gender should be clear from the name - or at least one of the names - and the name should not be harmful for the kid) but this already seems to be super weird for some people. And then you lot come along and demand accordance with grammar and spelling and whatnot :)
I just love this stuff :)
This was honestly very awesome and interesting. Thanks nerd.
In Shetland (Hjaltland) the patrynomic and matrynomic naming convention continued until the mid 1700's. From 1735 the British Government clamped down on it and forced the population to conform with the rest of the UK under pain of imprisonment and loss of children
In Finland the western parts did the Swedish style house names but in the east clan names were used before settling into family names for all.
Thank you! That was very interesting. Didn't know it was this specific, but makes total sense.
This was fun! Long Ólafur videos would be cool! BTW could you petition the king to get all boxes at the harbour painted yellow?
I do find it rather ironic they brought back family names that were originally also patronymic, such as Hansen (Hans-son) and acted like they were fancy new concepts.
Fr
Ah so this is why Eiður Guðjohnsen’s family use Guðjohnsen as a family name.
We used to use to do that with our names in Wales too. We used Ap to denote son of so Ieuan Ap Hywel, was Ieuan son of Hywel. Went away a long time ago now unfortunately.
We had this in Sweden not so long ago, e g Johansson and Johansdotter as the children of Johan. It is only like the latest 100 years or so that we stopped this and people started having family names of Johansson (my father's last name when he was born) and Andersson and Eriksson and so on. I can see this in my family tree right up to the end of the 1800's.
I would have been Georgsson with the old system.
i love the text commentary
Thanks, I was curtious about this.
Would've been interesting to also mention how in famous spectator sports like football, the Icelandic players are wearing shirts with the name of their fathers instead of their own names in international games. And for the fans at home it's just confusing, since they are always refered to by their first name.
Very interesting! Looking at that list of fancy names, I see 1) Waage/Vaage was one of thos fancy names; 2) Zoega was as well - that finally (partly) answers the question why Geir T. Zoëga, the author of the Old Icelandic dictionary, didn't go by a normal Icelandic patronymic (but the T. stood for Tómasson, Wikidata tells me!).
Oh, no no no, you misunderstand. I'm not a peasant! I'm not Hanson, the son of Hans. I'm Hansen, from the house belonging to Hans (Hans is my father, that's why I grew up in his house.)
I worked In Iceland in the 1970's and found the naming conventions really simple, my boss was Valar Magnusson, his father was Magnus Valarsson as was his son, and to find someone in the phone book you looked up the name and added to that was their occupation so you knew who was who.
Thank you for a great video. Coming from Australia we a a multitude of different first and last names. Some have meanings reflecting different aspects of family, my middle name and family name was my father's, some reflect past family vocations like Smith meaning someone in the past was a blacksmith or especially in Australia illegitimate children who's father's name was not know were also given the family name of Smith.
7:31 "Are we related?" - "Well, this is Iceland but... no!" 😅😂
Some rural areas in Norway kept to the patronymic tradition even into the earliest 1900’s. Anecdotally, people at my mom’s birth place doing their everyday work when she was quite young, she was born 1939.
Just one generation before her, the «last» father’s name stuck with her mother - and I carry that as my first name (no tradition, just mom’s idea back in ‘1966).
This place is on the east coast less than two hours from Oslo today. Not too remote from «modernity» around 1900… 😅
The “who are your forefathers” questions are/were common in a lot of places. I grew up in the southern USA and when I grew up, anytime you meet someone new without an introduction by someone else, they ask “Which [last name]’s are you from? Oh, you’re [father/mother full name] who grew up with [aunt/uncle]? Ok then.” It is far less common today though. I remember that happening multiple times in the Divine Comedy by Dante, and that was from the 1300’s Italy! I want to say I remember it being a big deal in places/countries where civil wars were common so you knew whose side the new person you met was on.
This was great, do more Icelandic history/culture.
Great video!
Add me to the list of students that forgot to change my peasant Icelandic name to something more continental like Hansen lol. tbh I probably would've picked Svenson.
Lol in Northern Germany a Hansen would be a son of Hans
@deutschermichel5807 oh, I didn't know that about Northern Germany - interesting. Hansen is a very Danish name to my ears.
having worked with Danes, Norwegians and Swedes, this is very informative
This is really interesting. I'd love to learn more about the declensions and the impact they have on the use of names.
Yes it is fascinating. German names also used to follow a declension (cf. Goetheʼs Werther: Lotte, Lottes, Lotten)
Latin names also must follow a declension:
Julius, Julī, Julii, Julio, Julium, Juliō
or
Tertia, Tertia, Tertiae, Tertiae, Tertiam, Tertiā
You should have a wikipedia page for the Yellow box!
Does anyone have a good source so wikipedia thinks its legit
lol no, it's just a silly box.
@@olafurw but wikipedias rules do not allow it exept if you could be part of a good source like a universety in iceland or something
that was a great educational video
I think that how the name has to go through approval exist in some form in all of Scandinavia and probably most of Europe.
Hm nah not really. For example a Minister in the Hessian state government has the surname Mansoori, which has Iranian roots. But it is spelled according to English orthography, which I find to be mildly annoying. I think foreigners should have an easier time adjusting their names to German orthography, e.g.: Mansuri.
"Whose people are you" evidently is universal with no barriers 😮😅
Really interesting stuff!
Loksins er gott myndband til að útskýra okkar eftirnöfn
In Norway, the patronymic names sort of got stuck as family names ending in "sen". To avoid too many families with identical names, the government even made a long list of plausible but fake names that sounded like Norwegian farms, so people could just take one of those as a family name without annoying an existing family. If a family name is very rare, you are not allowed to switch to it if you think you old one sucks, but most names are free. For first names, we have the same golden rule as mentioned in the video, so you can't name your daughter Poopypants, even if it seems like it suits her perfectly.
In the library I couldn't find the books written by Arnaldur Indriðason. They told me to look under the letter 'A' as those are sorted by the Icelandic system. But why? We're in the Netherlands, where names are sorted primarily by family name, but all of the sudden Icelandic names are sorted by the Icelandic system? They thought it would be more 'authentic', but I'm a bit confused. Nice touch, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around it to date.
Being protective of such heritage-type things is often looked down upon these days, but it's good to see that Iceland is protective of its unique language.
Merry Christmas Iceland
This is so interesting, I have recently listened several novel books that are located to Iceland (both from Finnish and Icelandic authors) and this 'name thingy' has baffled me 🤣