I find that at the micros a good adjustment is to extend the "value" part of your calling range slightly, but then fold the pure bluff catchers. This both adjusts for population under-bluffing most nodes, but also accounts for polarization mistakes (like that KQ hand) where they end up value-cutting themselves.
This might be too big of a stretch, as there are spots where micro population grossly overbluffs. Best example: Hero on the BTN vs BB Villain Hero Cbets Flop small, turn goes check-check, Villain snapleads river for half Pot In this scenario you should usually call all bluffcatchers vs population, as most of population doesn't bet thinly enough for value with weaker pairs, but bluffs (close to) all of their air. Also mostly no Nuts in the halfpot size~
@@TheOnlyToastwhat do you do against stations? I keep running into stations calling me down super light on boards that I wouldn't even continue on facing major aggression.
@@RUFFRIDE unfortunately anonymous zoom pools, you can't really identify stations. If I knew the guy was a station I wouldn't bluff him, I would value bet his face off. As well as some of these boards are super scary, like 3 flush or 4 flush, 3 to Broadway, 4 to straight, where those types of hands would be in my range easily. To me it is almost psychotic to be calling down with 6th pair, because I might be bluffing there, but the pool likely is not. One of my favorites is the guys who call down when I bluff raise river, I have gotten raised on the river 1 time in the hour that I played today, on a straight and flush completing board, do you think I would ever call that with top pair shit kicker?
Great video! I think it's important to mention that in the AA hand, Villain almost never has KK, JJ (as even fish usually 3bets that), also 99, QT and KJ is reduced at least on the river as it would be very unusual to just go halfpot here, no? I think fish would mostly size up turn already (and definetly jamm river after turn B50) with these kind of hands. I also think half pot is probably the most overbluffed and mergy size as it's the way to go for many fishes who don't know what they should do. Also notable that if we give villain KJo preflop, it's not a stretch to say he's got KTo aswell which therefore probably plays just like he did with KQo. If he only has KTs and KJs pre then villains value is such a tiny part of the range... Maybe the calldown ain't so bad in this exact configuration and with the sizes used? 🧐 But even if call was winning a blind or two, folding flop is the easiest play & definetly not a bad one either as bigger mistakes on later streets are 0. 👍
honestly, this is incredible. I fall into some of these traps sometimes. I just need to fold more when they show aggression out of nowhere after being passive
Pete, I want to thank you for this video as I think hit highlighted an issue with my game that I think subconciously I knew I had, but now I'm certain is my biggest leak. The difference in river bluffing frequencies by the pools as you move up stakes is not something many coaches talk about, or at least haven't articulated it as well as you guys did here.
Regarding the Aces hand I really like the FIRST part of Pete's assessment on the flop just fold. If you are up against some stupid King getting out of line it's such a rarity that you are definitely saving money down the line. HOWEVER, and this is a MASSIVE however - on the turn EVERYTHING changes. Once I see that "normal" 2/3 pot bet on the turn THERE ISN"T A HYDRAULIC CROWBAR ON EARTH that's gonna part me from my cards. NO WAY a recreational player is going to size to anything less than pot or 2x pot with the goods (2 pair or better). Think about it. They've reached nirvana, a hand that can even beat Aces AND hero is willing to even continue calling. They are PILING the money in, in fact often jamming. You were smart to just check call all the way.
Disagreed with the analysis on both AA hands, lol.... First one, I think the mistake was betting the turn He might not even bet the river when the flush drops, if he does, you can call, either way you lose much less, but it's easier to get away from a river bet now, and if you are good and fold, you haven't lost much either Certainly, calling the times you are good won't pay for the times you are not good. Even 1 of 4, you can fold, and I think that is not reasonable to think. 1 in 5 or 6 at best. Cz he limps-calls raise, check -flat calls, check -raise,. Limp-calls raise - that is broadway/mid-board material, or suited cons, that board and action are high danger area. You needed to back off turn. On the second AA, I was opposite again, I think being scared on the flop is too quick to feel defeated. I don't think any villain is going to be there with QT, or 2 pair. KJ maybe, but w/e, yes shitty flop, be cautious.. then you are not cautious... I think I bet flop too, but I call his raise quickly, putting him on AK or KQ It's true the check raise says 2 pair or set, but I think the bet size hurts that narrative, he should be betng bigger if he's trying to shut it down. Then it's a good run out, I call him down if he keeps betting. If he shoves turn or flop, Idk,.. but I will check flop sometimes too. I think you can just check it down from flop is ok too, or call reasonable open if he does. Thing is, is it is a shitty board, you are entering a chess game you don't have to. Esp if you are a player that doesn't like folding, then keep the pots manageable. I think yo are looking for reasons why your aces might be good instead of why they are just 2 cards. After the flop comes, they drop from #1 to like #10, even 20. You'd never spend that much preflop on 33 or JQ. Honesty, Idk anything tho... fkng game lol
Im never calling K8s on the river there vs 3.5x overbet jam at 25nl. I don't care if villain is aggressive reg, if he was going to bluff I'm pretty sure he'd choose a smaller sizing, probably something like 80% pot - 1.5x pot. But 3.5x overbet jam is NEVER a bluff at these stakes. He's always gonna have a set or a straight
@charlieyhp Your hand has to be good here 44% of the time just to breakeven. You really think that your hand is good nearly half the time here? I don't. Our hand is a pure bluff catcher. I very much doubt he's shoving 3.5x pot with a worse 2 pair
Spot one, do you really win 17% of the time on the river holding these suits? I don't think so tbh. Ac is a bad blocker here vs this size, I'd rather call a jam
negative feedback is not necessarily good, you can easily make people feel bad without it being actionable, just or fair. So to just share this nonchalant idea that we must embrace and accept negative feedback is quite simplistic and particularly bad in the context of poker where one must re educate their emotional responses.
Sometimes it’s for the “let’s bet to see where I’m at”. Also a cheap bluff in their eyes. I’ve found when they do ip on the turn for example it’s extremely weak because the have a middling pair and they want you to check river to them so they can get to showdown
@@archie2281 I don't want to say I bet to " see where I am at", but I do in a way, especially against passive fish. Like the one with James Arakkarshar, where he said fish will let you know their hand, was basically my theory behind it. The above is JTO, so not solver approved at all.
Seems like we’re just leveling ourselves @nl25…….all of this thought and effort at a level where 90% of the pool is watching Naruto while they click buttons….that being said great video, Steve move up my guy
But I disagree on leveling. Fish tend to have a lot of similar spews and polarization errors. Seems like by accepting variance and understanding these exploits are a big part of my win-rate (4bb over 250k hands mostly NL25)
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I find that at the micros a good adjustment is to extend the "value" part of your calling range slightly, but then fold the pure bluff catchers. This both adjusts for population under-bluffing most nodes, but also accounts for polarization mistakes (like that KQ hand) where they end up value-cutting themselves.
This might be too big of a stretch, as there are spots where micro population grossly overbluffs.
Best example: Hero on the BTN vs BB Villain
Hero Cbets Flop small, turn goes check-check, Villain snapleads river for half Pot
In this scenario you should usually call all bluffcatchers vs population, as most of population doesn't bet thinly enough for value with weaker pairs, but bluffs (close to) all of their air. Also mostly no Nuts in the halfpot size~
I agree that you can pick off river stabs like this profitably in many pools - I was more thinking about the more aggressive lines. @@TheOnlyToast
@@TheOnlyToastwhat do you do against stations?
I keep running into stations calling me down super light on boards that I wouldn't even continue on facing major aggression.
@@jeffshackleford3152 dont bluff stations
@@RUFFRIDE unfortunately anonymous zoom pools, you can't really identify stations.
If I knew the guy was a station I wouldn't bluff him, I would value bet his face off.
As well as some of these boards are super scary, like 3 flush or 4 flush, 3 to Broadway, 4 to straight, where those types of hands would be in my range easily.
To me it is almost psychotic to be calling down with 6th pair, because I might be bluffing there, but the pool likely is not.
One of my favorites is the guys who call down when I bluff raise river, I have gotten raised on the river 1 time in the hour that I played today, on a straight and flush completing board, do you think I would ever call that with top pair shit kicker?
Great video!
I think it's important to mention that in the AA hand, Villain almost never has KK, JJ (as even fish usually 3bets that), also 99, QT and KJ is reduced at least on the river as it would be very unusual to just go halfpot here, no? I think fish would mostly size up turn already (and definetly jamm river after turn B50) with these kind of hands.
I also think half pot is probably the most overbluffed and mergy size as it's the way to go for many fishes who don't know what they should do.
Also notable that if we give villain KJo preflop, it's not a stretch to say he's got KTo aswell which therefore probably plays just like he did with KQo. If he only has KTs and KJs pre then villains value is such a tiny part of the range... Maybe the calldown ain't so bad in this exact configuration and with the sizes used? 🧐
But even if call was winning a blind or two, folding flop is the easiest play & definetly not a bad one either as bigger mistakes on later streets are 0. 👍
honestly, this is incredible. I fall into some of these traps sometimes. I just need to fold more when they show aggression out of nowhere after being passive
lol yup, villain hit random 2 pair, set, or straight😂
Pete, I want to thank you for this video as I think hit highlighted an issue with my game that I think subconciously I knew I had, but now I'm certain is my biggest leak. The difference in river bluffing frequencies by the pools as you move up stakes is not something many coaches talk about, or at least haven't articulated it as well as you guys did here.
Regarding the Aces hand I really like the FIRST part of Pete's assessment on the flop just fold. If you are up against some stupid King getting out of line it's such a rarity that you are definitely saving money down the line.
HOWEVER, and this is a MASSIVE however - on the turn EVERYTHING changes. Once I see that "normal" 2/3 pot bet on the turn THERE ISN"T A HYDRAULIC CROWBAR ON EARTH that's gonna part me from my cards. NO WAY a recreational player is going to size to anything less than pot or 2x pot with the goods (2 pair or better). Think about it. They've reached nirvana, a hand that can even beat Aces AND hero is willing to even continue calling. They are PILING the money in, in fact often jamming. You were smart to just check call all the way.
I watch these for the comedy; the poker stuff is a nice bonus 😁
Best Jordan Peterson impression ever
I was crying at that
7:05 is unreal thing to remember
Disagreed with the analysis on both AA hands, lol.... First one, I think the mistake was betting the turn He might not even bet the river when the flush drops, if he does, you can call, either way you lose much less, but it's easier to get away from a river bet now, and if you are good and fold, you haven't lost much either Certainly, calling the times you are good won't pay for the times you are not good. Even 1 of 4, you can fold, and I think that is not reasonable to think. 1 in 5 or 6 at best. Cz he limps-calls raise, check -flat calls, check -raise,. Limp-calls raise - that is broadway/mid-board material, or suited cons, that board and action are high danger area. You needed to back off turn.
On the second AA, I was opposite again, I think being scared on the flop is too quick to feel defeated. I don't think any villain is going to be there with QT, or 2 pair. KJ maybe, but w/e, yes shitty flop, be cautious.. then you are not cautious... I think I bet flop too, but I call his raise quickly, putting him on AK or KQ It's true the check raise says 2 pair or set, but I think the bet size hurts that narrative, he should be betng bigger if he's trying to shut it down. Then it's a good run out, I call him down if he keeps betting. If he shoves turn or flop, Idk,.. but I will check flop sometimes too. I think you can just check it down from flop is ok too, or call reasonable open if he does.
Thing is, is it is a shitty board, you are entering a chess game you don't have to. Esp if you are a player that doesn't like folding, then keep the pots manageable. I think yo are looking for reasons why your aces might be good instead of why they are just 2 cards. After the flop comes, they drop from #1 to like #10, even 20. You'd never spend that much preflop on 33 or JQ.
Honesty, Idk anything tho... fkng game lol
Im never calling K8s on the river there vs 3.5x overbet jam at 25nl. I don't care if villain is aggressive reg, if he was going to bluff I'm pretty sure he'd choose a smaller sizing, probably something like 80% pot - 1.5x pot. But 3.5x overbet jam is NEVER a bluff at these stakes. He's always gonna have a set or a straight
At these stakes it is either nutted or maniacs clicking buttons with these sizing. Not sure which one is more likely. But I think I will call K8o
@charlieyhp Your hand has to be good here 44% of the time just to breakeven. You really think that your hand is good nearly half the time here? I don't. Our hand is a pure bluff catcher. I very much doubt he's shoving 3.5x pot with a worse 2 pair
Spot one, do you really win 17% of the time on the river holding these suits? I don't think so tbh.
Ac is a bad blocker here vs this size, I'd rather call a jam
negative feedback is not necessarily good, you can easily make people feel bad without it being actionable, just or fair. So to just share this nonchalant idea that we must embrace and accept negative feedback is quite simplistic and particularly bad in the context of poker where one must re educate their emotional responses.
I didn't take it like that.
I took it as meaning, we have to suck it up and call because calling is profitable here.
What is the deal with the fish min raise?
I don't understand where that even enters in someone's mind.
I think they're scared you will fold, might just be an exploitative fold
Sometimes it’s for the “let’s bet to see where I’m at”. Also a cheap bluff in their eyes. I’ve found when they do ip on the turn for example it’s extremely weak because the have a middling pair and they want you to check river to them so they can get to showdown
@@TSH-sx3ecI usually fold my bluff catchers to min raise.
@@archie2281 I don't want to say I bet to " see where I am at", but I do in a way, especially against passive fish.
Like the one with James Arakkarshar, where he said fish will let you know their hand, was basically my theory behind it.
The above is JTO, so not solver approved at all.
@@archie2281 I didn't notice that in my hole card evaluation.
I will have to check, thanks for the tip
Is all salt sand or is all sand salt?
...lets see what he does on the river!
Seems like we’re just leveling ourselves @nl25…….all of this thought and effort at a level where 90% of the pool is watching Naruto while they click buttons….that being said great video, Steve move up my guy
Damn no shot 😂 I actually used to watch Boruto and autopilot
But I disagree on leveling. Fish tend to have a lot of similar spews and polarization errors. Seems like by accepting variance and understanding these exploits are a big part of my win-rate (4bb over 250k hands mostly NL25)
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