"Albrech Entrati to his dying days..." hm. In a zariman tablet Wally questions what happened to Albrecht so we are unsure if he is dead, his daughter seems to believe he is in the void too. Also another thing: just noticed how the Red veil insanity on the Steel maridian ship is the same as adults' insanity on Zariman
When you run across Duviri, the children tend to say the darndest things... little rhymes and songs... I overheard this during the Envy Spiral: "Something's watching through the window, Watching you and watching me... wants what we have. wants to *BE* us! we know that can never be." "Something's waiting, getting closer, watching, waiting for its day, Something needy, cruel and greedy....keep that hungry thing at bay!"
I thought of the Lotus being taken by wally as well. Like she's been trapped in her chair in her chair for even longer than us. Void exposure is toxic to Sentients. But she actually has het own form of void powers now. Oh and I think the reason why Ballas has a Duviri version now, is because at the end of the New War, Ballas his dead body got sucked into the void portal. Just like how our dying body got thrown into the void by Ballas.
Ballas being present in Duviri may be due to the fact that he was the one to sentance Kullervo, a free-willed frame, so it wouldn't be so wild to assume the warden was created purely through Kullervo's guilt
During the final part of the new war, just before the lotus does the creepy smile, if you look at her hand you will notice a void effect. Its easy to miss, and honestly i think your graphic settings could cause it not to appear, but its there. Pretty sure she struck a deal with wally to save us from the situation. Ya know, fighting directly next to the sun, on a vessel with a declining orbit. I think he pops up and offers people a choice during critocal moments, as he did with us on the zariman. He was like ill save you from all this but you have to shake my hand. We did and now the lotus has. Edit: also when the wall comes in he is saying vome fass xata etc. I subscribe to the theory dominus thrax is rell. His emotions literally change duviri, rell had problems with emotions. Dsiege im not sure if you checked out the lore fragments in duviri, but they have stories of islands that thrax set adrift. Farming island with blood from the soil, school island where a bunch of creepy smile dopplegangers showed up, etc. I think duviri is the last bastion in the void, and the void is slowly but surely encroaching on it. Taking one island at a time until nothing is left. The lighthouse keeper was crushed by falling chains, and before he died he said he saw a hand slowly approaching everyday. The hand was missing a finger.
I, personally, am entirely happy to work with void daddy for whatever -nerfarious- definitely _beneficient_ ends hes seeking... so long as he gives me more power and shiny things.
@@TheDsIEGE All the more reason to remain on his side. And it doesn't even cost us much, Wally is True Neutral, he doesn't care what we use our powers for all that much, which makes him an excellent patron. Besides, he's right, we are nothing without him; not just our powers and immorality are due to him, everything we've done since the Zariman incident was only possible because he saved us and subsequently stopped other potential deaths. We really do owe him big time.
That effect used for when the Warden and Wally disappear looks an awful lot like the radiation gore effect. Either A) there is some connection or B) it is just DE saving time and money.
@@tdw745 It's the despawn/disintegrate animation. Killing with Corrosive is extremely similar or identical. Many other materials and other objects disappearing do it as well. Additionally, the reason the eyes fade right toward the end is 'cause typically eyes are rendered separately in many games (sometimes with other details like teeth) which is also a pretty big giveaway as well that it's just a standard anim applied to both of those NPC models.
@@TheDsIEGE I was going to make the point that if we do need to face Wally, maybe our capacity to form bonds and feel emotions would be the advantage we have, but I was struck by an interesting thought; what if, by Wally taking our light, he gained the ability to feel that sorta stuff. It would even partially explain why he's never hurt us and has just followed us around a lot; maybe he's fascinated by us, maybe it's the first time he's cared about anything and he doesn't know what to do about it. The "Light" he took from us has to mean something, and while our Oro or Soul would also work, a newfound capacity to feel emotions would explain his somewhat erratic behavior. Or course, this would beg the question of why we can still feel things, but perhaps him taking our light doesn't mean he can't share it with us; one fire can warm many, after all.
See this is why I love this game, Warframe may have one of the best Sci-Fi lore ever if they keep on focusing more on Wally and the mysterious aspect of the void.
This is probably one of the best videos you have done regarding the actual lore of Warframe. DE should push this video if they ever want to bring people back to their game. I think you should definetly do more, like videos on the views we have had on the void itself or how about the derelict or the orokin? But this video is amazing, very good job
Thank you, and yes, I feel like it's time to revisit some of the old quests to see how the new war and duviri effect it, at the same time giving people (what I feel at least) is an entertaining synopsis of what happened. We all could use a refresh on some of this stuff, I'm sure. But thank you again, I appreciate ya!
@@maarek71 Everyone I have ever played with, has quit the game long ago. I quit when The New War came out, because at that point the game lots its sense of meaning, they are just never going to give us anything straight story-wise and gameplay-wise they keep pushing the game to be less Warframe and more everything else.
Maybe he's just smiling because he sees, that we are indeed following down the path he saw before us. Or maybe we're one of the tenno that despite the odds ended up succeeding where we were supposed to fail.
To me this reaffirms the concept of the Man in the Wall as God, the Void as the Holy Spirit, and the Tenno Jesus, both entirely man and entirely God. Warframe plays with these concepts a lot more, such as Transference and Eternalism, but at the core I think that Trinity remains. Maybe because of this I am drawn towards the Man in the Wall. I have never, in my entire playthrough, seen him as an enemy. I remember when Lotus left I was comfortable following and trusting him without question. I think his plan and unorthodox means of executing it are meant to mimic that of the real God, and like the real God, these methods cause people to doubt both his existence and intentions.
It's funny you should mention that. I have a video coming up soon regarding the concept of the trinity in warframe, as it's all over the place in the lore, not just with the tenno. Also... I'll be talking about how I see the overarching story going in one of two ways, oedipal in that we are forced to kill our father or... what it looks like now, we are to be sacrificed for the entirety of the universes salvation, and there's a Zariman tablet that specifically says "I said I'd save them all, Tenno. Never said I'd save you" which leads me to believe we are currently on the path of the latter...
@@TheDsIEGE The major problem with that, is that the Tenno dying/sacrificing themselves/their power would make future play impossible; something DE will never do.
I also never saw The Man In The Wall as an enemy, though for different reasons. He's demonstrated that he has the power to effect reality and potentially harm us whenever he wants, yet he's only ever given us tough love at worst. He may be hostile to the system or life in general (possibly by his sheer presence being harmful to mortals), but he's at the very least nominally on our side so far. Nothing he's done so far has been harmful to us (aside from during CoH, during which he was lashing out at the world over being trapped, and the Lotus shades after she left, which were weak and arguably more a harsh way to help us get over the pain of her betrayal than a real attack) and he's provided help we would be utterly powerless without.
This is a interesting concept. The idea of Warframe using biblical parallels in it's core lore. But that also begs the question, is Wally more along the lines of God, or Lucifer? If we're talking biblical. Wally reminds me more of Lucifer, in the fact he represents forbidden knowledge and that the void is more akin to a warping Hell as mortals who are not protected usually end up become corrupt creatures prone to suffer until they are ultimately put down. Wally could very well could be the Serpent luring us into temptation, instead of the loving but firm father of creation. I don't know why, but I feel the exact opposite of comforted everytime I interact with the Man in the Wall. There's a layer of uneaseiness. The confident charismatic way he seems to behave thinly veils his manic undertones (the infamous unhinged grin comes to mind.) The way he appears to feed off our emotions mimics how Lucifer uses the flaws of man to corrupt them and turn them away from the righteous path. The way he appears to make "deals" isn't hidng the fact it's a "deal with the devil" situation. You get something you desperately want, in exchange for your soul. Perhaps the whole concept is a twisted version of the holy trinity. I just don't see Wally being akin to God himself. He strikes me more along the lines of the devil luring victims to do his bidding by manipulation and taking advantage of one's desperation. *I.E like a child losing their mother figure and is in desperate need of guidance and comfort...*
@@nirablackfire2792 while I understand this correlation, specifically the “deal with the Devil” aspect, I think Wally still is more of a good figure. As the user above mentioned, he is a seemingly omnipotent being that has not harmed us. As I said in the original comment, the unorthodox means by which Wally gets what he wants are akin to God’s. God made many deals throughout the Bible with many people. The Jews weren’t supposed to worship other gods and he would give them the promised land, but they did and he made them all die and gave it to their children. David was meant to reign peacefully his whole life, but Bathsheba and what he did to her changed that. Solomon was meant to reign equally calmly after his father, but his womanizing was his destruction. In every instance God told them that if they obeyed him he would grant them prosperity, and at every instance they didn’t and he took it from them. I see Wally like that. He is asking for our obedience, and if we obey he will do as we wish too. I see failed obedience resulting in our destruction. Again, as I said before, this trade off will make a lot of people not trust Wally, just like it makes a lot of people not trust God.
Very, very good video sir!! I have long thought about the handshake that started everything. It was the Lotus' right hand, attached to the Wally version of us just like it is attached to the Drifter's right hand. In addition, if you watch the ending of the New War again, it looks like Wally absorbed itself into her left hand, smoke trailing from it as she shakes it off. When we carry her back to her room, the first thing she does is look at that hand, kinda favoring it as she grabs her arm with it, looking unsure of herself. Of course, that handshake was before she received that hand chop from Ballas, meaning she has been "infected" by Wally for a while...centuries. Lotus...is a mimic. She can be anyone at anytime and, if her initial voyage through the void was her first encounter with Wally, then perhaps her deal was to have "children" again, in exchange for Wally being able to travel within her. Lastly, the New War trailer has a different scenario than what we actually play. This is also the case from the last TennoCon's Duviri demo, where the Drifter picks up her hand instead of it attaching. Could this be intentional moves by DE?
I think you're the first commenter to pick up on that... I have a video on her coming up. So interesting that she is the mimic queen, and the man in the wall likes to make copies of himself. Ever see another sentient do ANYTHING like what the Lotus can, LOL?
@@TheDsIEGE We see some sentient mimics in the first cinematic for the sacrifice, but that's about it. Lotus does seem to be unusually powerful for a sentient, I mean she hid the moon in the void for gods sake. Maybe that was also infused by Wally somewhat? Hiding the Zariaum children in his domain for who knows how many years
My takeaway from Chains of Harrow is that it was Rell who was bound there, but he was being possessed by Wally, who was using him to reach out and finally break through from the Void into our world via helping him. Albrecht, Rell, Lotus and the Operator all share a connection of not only making direct contact with Wally, but also in that their memories and connections are exposed and exploited during times of immense importance/stress to achieve results that cause dramatic shifts in the world around them. Each of us effectively becoming sleeper agents to be activated when needed to cause the balance of things to change, and bring our world that much closer to the Void.
i think DE will never reveal what or who is the man in the wall. The character itself was meant to be eldritch and a lovecraftian kind of entity. Shrouded in eternal mysteries, never to be understood its goal or the point of it existence. Its just...there, and it exist, and we dont know what, why or how. Perhaps he existence might be way beyond our human comprehensiveness, and thats what makes The Man In The Wall so interesting yet haunting. He makes us questions everything.
Amazing video. The new quests that were showed at TennoCon had me going down a rabbit hole of all the lore. You realize how deep the story really does go.
Mind blowing as always. I don't have anything more insightful to say as of now; just dropping a like and a comment to help appease the algorithm. Happy to have you back, Siege
I have the presumption that wally was actually about to escape from rell and paladino simply got tenno within wally's sight to divert his attention away from red veil. The fact that rell was actually "tired" points in this direction.
I see the Drifter as the Rell of his timeline, with Dominus and his Dax being Tenno equivalents, and Teshin the man-in-the-wall stand-in. It's an alternative timeline built through parallel. One in which Drifter isn't saved from the trauma, but gets to rely on a father figure. Everything about the lore and nature of Duviri suggests that it never featured any of the other children, as only the Drifter survived. Even the holdfasts aren't part of the Drifter's native reality, but rather those who lived through the catastrophe on the Operator's side of the timeline.
I swear these videos always come in whenever I feel bored about the game. The storylines Future is extremely exciting. My guess is for DE's plan for this Man in the wall story, is probably to do 1-2 more small story quests with the man in the wall uniquely in them for some integral way. Moving into the next big story line quest being about the Lotuses Visions / backstory besides the stuff we already know. This all leading up to the next big New War style quest being about figuring out who is the man in the wall.
It's interesting to consider the possibility we only interacted with Rells mimic, however I find it unlikely given the content of the "memories" we are shown. Understanding emotions and making connections with people who have been hurt are not just key themes of warframes story, they are fundamental aspects of the tenno's power. Given what we saw with whispers in the walls Wally actively tries to prevent the tenno from gaining knowledge which helps us connect with Loid and "take his pain away". With that context I think its unlikely Rells mimic would show us flashbacks demonstrating how his understanding of emotion made him resistant to Wallys influence.
First 40k with Eldritch Concepts of Being, then Lancer with Eldritch Math, and now Warframe with Eldritch Biology. What's next, Eldritch Language Arts? Wait, that's just Cthulhu... At this rate, I'll be able to take Eldritch School Classes.
The thing behind Rell I guess he was chained too looks like the mother and others from Deimos that come out of those tentacles pod things. I’m surprised I haven’t seen more people talk about that
i forgot your channel existed, and now this got recommended to me, I'm genuinely so excited to sit here and listen, i already know its gonna be incredible
An interesting twist would be that Wally isn't the antagonist, but rather a being preparing us for something far more dangerous, tho his methods are suspicious due to his alien nature. Might sound lazy, but given that he helps us in many ways, despite it seeming like it's only for his own benefit, his "deal" with us may be meant to get us ready for something more.
An awesome video as always. A lot to think about. And speculate. But I just had some really insane idea. As you were playing video from Chains of Harrow and I was listening at the voice of Rell's mother... I got a feeling that she is speaking in a very simmilar manner like Mathila in Duviri. (The joy character)... Anyway.... can't wait for another video...
I think the man in the wall has to follow the void logic of emotions and thought manifesting things. So in the Chains of Harrow quest, because we (the tenno, lotus and palladino) expected Rell, it looked like Rell (at least if it is really Wally and not the real Rell). All the other times we see it in a quest, it is in moments where the Tenno is deeply connected with themself (like in the War Within). To be honest, I don't think the Man in the Wall has too much agency in its actions, and I would even go so far as to say that it is not really an individual entity, but more like a half-being that represents the void itself. I think a good analogy are the old gods from the lovecraftian mythos, as they also act as individuals, but without any self-awareness, and are bound to their "path" of what they are supposed to be. Also, concerning the question of Albrecht Entrati, it is well wihtin the knowledge about the void that we gain on the zariman that actually both came back (the question about whether tha father or the mother survives). That could also be why palladino is acting so strange: It might be stretch, but due to how close we came to the void in the chains of harrow quest, that might just be a kind of uncertainty of which reality we are in: the one where it is rell or the one where it is wally who contacted us.
I wonder if the operator is the other to the drifter? The drifter is within the void, as he says to the operator in The New War, he is “the one who never got out of this mess” (quote was something similar) so maybe when the zariman entered the void (and everyone else that ever enters the void) that itself was what created a doppelgänger of the zariman and all of its passengers and that ship was the one to leave the void? Now the remaining questions would be what caused it to leave the void and how does wally fit in, id say that wally is what actually creates the doppelgängers as he is obviously connected to the operator, entrati, rell, lotus. Using this im suggesting that he creates the doubles by somehow merging his void body/ spirit with our corporeal one, making a complete copy of the original person but with a unseverable connection to the void (or at least to him), allowing wally to interact with them in a limited way but as he has no influence on the solar system he cannot take advantage of the double as easily and must taunt and attempt to coerce them mentally, the tenno are the only instance of a further connection to wally through the handshake/ deal we make and rell choosing to outright fight against him by trapping himself and wally in the somatic link (i think its called that). which gives us our void powers(drifter only gets his powers after somehow connecting with operator in TNW). Im also suggesting that wally sent the operators zariman out of the void because he finally achieved an actual foothold of the physical world
You are cooking for sure. From what I've seen I believe everybody misinterprets how the man in the wall speaks. His goal isnt to make us trust him, it's to make him real (similar to the ahamkara in destiny [oh _ mine]). It seems to me that he belittles, scares, and taunts his victims in order to break down their will and then take control from there. He takes the form of his victims to make them think that he IS them and that he is in control. It makes sense to me that transference / mind control is a power given by the void, and that a God of the void would be able to use such power on any being he wants, so long as he is able to break down their will. I understand rell now, his work was beyond noble. But now... Whatever you do, don't welcome him into your orbiter.
I hope they don't outright tell us what he is, but that they heavily imply it with a simple "...I. Am... I... Am." with the seeming entirety of the void(or the rift between The Zariman and Duviri) behind him when someone inevitably asks "...what are you?"
I don't think he's that kind of god... Way too mischievous to make it that simple. If you play Destiny I'd akin his personality to that of Savathun, a trickster god, only Wally is cosmically powerful and infinite in nature.
@@TheDsIEGE it's that infinite aspect which would have it make sense, and just because he tells us he's infinite himself couldn't mean he isnt still just a filthy cosmic memester at his core lol... and nah, I don't play Destiny. I play warframe :v
Ya know, that part you mentioned about the Lotus smiling? I remember that part when finishing the quest and I remember thinking to myself, "well that's weird" LOL. Of course, I got myself distracted and forgot all about it, until now. Man, every time I watch one of your videos you just end up smacking my brain cells around. 😂 WF lore has always had me intrigued, I definitely look forward to your thoughts, great video.
In the same way rell could be analogous to dominus thrax, similar but not the same, kullervo is almost analogous to ordis, both killed a blue skinned despot only to be tortured for effectively eternity only for the drifter/operator to help redeem them :)
something that changed my entire perspective of Wally recently is also something that I have not seen *anybody* talk about... In Duviri, if you find Sythel in her barred up house, one of the things she says is, "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started." Pretty much everyone I've talked with or listened to about Wally talk about Wally as though he's an entity that originates from, or is an embodiment, of the Void. Which is what I previously thought, but Sythel directly states that The Man in the Wall was the first ever case of Conceptual Embodiment (from a Zariman tablet in Duviri: Q: What is Conceptual Embodiment? A: Concepts taking on form in the Void.) There are a ton of things in Duviri that talk about how travel through the void requires a calm mind, because the Void manifests emotions, thats what the entire story of Duviri is about, its a story book for children to teach them about how they need to calm the dragons of their emotions lest they become real in the Void. And what do we know of Albrecht's first ever voyage into the Void? He was terrified of it. He feared that he would die empty in that void, losing all of himself. So thus, the Void, given its very first ever interaction with emotion, took shape, just as Sythel says. The Man in the Wall did not exist before Albrecht Entrati first voyaged into the Void. It couldn't have.
We are BOTH. The tenno AND the man in the wall. The 10-0 child AND the doppelganger. The man in the wall is inside us and once exposed to the indifference we cannot escape. Algorithm fuel.
While I might not be right, the man in the wall gives me a similar feel to Happy Chaos from the Guilty Gear story, some guy who's incredibly smart and gifted taps into a space between worlds and dimensions and uses it to become all powerful and after a while(thousands of years of while) shows themselves to humanity again to offer a sort of bargain. For Happy Chaos he gives humans magic in return for entertainment, but the Mitw seems to give us void powers(basically void magic lets be honest) in return for, something, probably either loyalty or us doing dirty work for him. Additionally the name "The Man in the Wall" makes him seem mortal and trapped, that despite his seemingly god-like power he's still mortal, still vulnerable, and still possibly trapped in the void. And maybe he's trying to get us to get him out of the void, like we did for Parvos, maybe even having his hands in getting parvos out of the granum void as a sort of test in order to see if we can release him, and now knowing we can he's going full throttle, trying to start a war with the lotus because maybe he knows the lotus would have told us what he is planning so he has to take out the lotus first in order to lead us to setting him free. Just a few thoughts, again I'm probably wrong as I haven't been doing any lore hunting of my own but I still thought it might be worth it to share y'know
After this video I took a look at the Harrow scene in Captura and it's interesting if you look at what Harrow is viewing. That source of the light at Harrow looks awfully like an eye.
This reminds me of bloodborne. think of the man in the wall as an eldrich being and the tenno as a baby eldrich being . the babies are in a different state of "sleep" than the adults and therefore not fully under their control. So maybe we are just baby "wally's" the huske of former humans turned eldrich by a simple handshake (and agreement). my question would then be "what are the other "wally's" diong? How much more chaos is going on in other (unknown to us) parts of the universe?"
What if Drifter was the real Tenno but we were “the other”? What if Rell wasn’t tired and instead his doppelgänger said that to help convince us that releasing the chains was the right thing to do?
-"But the man in the wall. Who will... ?" -"They will have to. All of them. They owe you this. We all do." Maybe the whole question was "But the man in the wall. Who will keep hit at bay?" Also I would not call MITW/Void a virus. The way he talks about Tenno being nothing without him is exacly what Venom (from Marvel) says to it's host. He is parasite/symbiote.
oh the good old existencial paradox, yeah, we deffinitly are "the other" since the untainted and unfused tenno was the drifter, but doesn't matter if we are an impostor, we are what we are and that is what matters, but those paralels are great and make a lot of sense and its a shame that I feel like half of what became plausible after the new war must be unintended and DE just didn't have any idea of the can of worms they opened. I feel like up to The Sacrifice, the loremaster of DE had a clear vision and had a great team to make things tight, but then, staff changed and the game isn't the same anymore. =/
It should be noted that the dev team has taken some major liberties from the Southern Reach trilogy for the void lore. Especially when Annihilation, the 2018 film came out. Albricht never left the Void.
Well, there's the idea of the Trinity. The drifter is one part, the operator is the final form and given that all of this doesn't happen without the man in the wall... he's the third.
Thinking out lound here but might Walley be a manifestation of cosmic chaos. Basically an in the beginning everything was dark and void then creation happened if you want to use a religious version. So when creation happened the void was pushed back as it were leaving the void on the outside looking in and reflecting it in a way but constantly trying to worm its way in. The more it gets in the more chaos happens and the material universe comes apart at the seams in the form of void storms and the like. Tldr my logic is that there is a cosmic scales that shift depending on which cycle is dominant the material plain of the cosmic energy and the balance changes between order and chaos. Just a thought though.
Between the operators, albrecht and rell; isn‘t it kind of obvious that what returns is always changed? It‘s always a demon (that is to say, an impossible question). It‘s always Wally. Now, I‘m still convinced there has to be some connection between the Wall of Bones and the infested. we‘ll see where that goes.
They do but what makes theses two unique is that they are npc's. I can't think of any other npc's that act in this manner. Even the vagabond character in duviri doesn't do this. He will stay until you look away, like the way the Man in the wall used to work. Not sure if it's anything but I wanted to include it because it does seem odd
I still have my head cannon that the drifter is the human of the Tenno and not some sort of different timeline like is implied, and the (what I’m dubbing ‘void clones’) are the Tenno, sons and daughters of the ‘Man in the wall’. We may be considering the wrong possibility of what Entrati thinks. The main thing that makes me think the is that there is a sold them of parenthood in the majority of the games main antagonists, Hunhow lotas father and our disapproving grandfather, Balis an aregent manipulative stepfather who would rather see us dead, and this does apply to the main characters, lotus, margulus, tenshen, heck even Vore has a strange uncle vibe even if he doesn’t follow the trend I’ve pointed out. I think the man in the wall was and possibly still is going to be our “bio father”. This is why our human selves has been kept away form us, in the form of the drifter but because balis even if a void clone is did in my opinion work against the man in the wall trying to destroy the sun and all of that. Anyway thank you for coming to my tedtalk I wish you all a great day
my stance on wally... cthulhu isn't inherently evil.. just the stories about him show that his existence is toxic to the human mind wally isn't evil.. wally isn't good.. wally just exists. and he doesn't really care about us in the long run. he's just poking to see what we do
Paladino is trustworthy. She didn't lie once in the context of the quest, and is willing to help us. She didn't "free" the man in the wall, she freed Rell from his permanent position as the jailer for Wally. She said it was our job now, it is the least we could do for Rell after how we treated him on the Zariman.
I have not doubt that Paladino believes what she said. However I think we should all take what she says with a grain of salt. First of all I think it's important to note that Red Veil are canonically a religious group. So you'll forgive people for not taking a religious zealots word as law. I don't think Paladino meant to free the man in the wall but that doesn't mean she didn't do it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Also I don't think Rell was fully holding back the man in the wall. If he was we wouldn't have came into contact with our tenno in the War Within as chronologically Chains of Harrow comes after. I don't think it's too crazy to think that Rell had been overtaken by Wally since the beginning of the quest. After all if he could trick a well learned man such as Albretch why not a child like Rell? He also was able to trick our operator as well. Also interestingly enough Paladino means " to make oneself a champion of liberty" just thought that was an interesting find.
So might the man in the wall be similar to the lotus in a way since he can also control the tenno like the lotus did or am i misunderstanding something?
Well... what I'm saying is she might already be in the same boat as we are. The man in the wall can overtake us at any point. Why wouldn't he be able to do the same with her? Every entity he's come into contact with has been either copied, assimilated or both, and she's seen him too.
I finished the video: yeah no I think this is overthinking it, almost to a problematic extent. Rell lost the battle to Wally, allowing him to overtake his being and possess him. However, because Rell had chained himself in body and spirit, Wally was chained as well. In order to save Rell from a fate of eternal torment, we had to free him from his mortal coil-by extension, freeing Wally. Paladino knew this, WE by extension knew this, we simply didn't care, because as Paladino and Rell put it, holding off Wally was going to be our burden now. My biggest issue with the theory presented is that it completely undermines the emotional impact of the quest, to little gain, but to overly complicate an already complicated story.
Well, it is just a theory based on info in the game but... We still don't know what the man in the wall is to this day definitively, but you think we willingly unleashed such a malevolent entity? Seems a bit irresponsible, don't you think? Further... We purposely don't owe Rell anything, and Palladino just telling us that we do shouldn't be a catalyst for unleashing an obvious threat into the system. You don't think there's any room for misdirection here given all the contradictions we see in quest? I respect it, but... also respectfully disagree. I suppose we'll see in the end tho. Best part about theory crafting, you never REALLY know where things will go next.
@TheDsIEGE you assume the Tenno, and warframe in general, is about doing what is considered 'responsible' and 'correct', that's where your entire theory falls apart. The Tenno, by their very nature, do what is 'moral', and 'honorable'. Releasing a child from eternal torment and also releasing a eldritch entity seems irresponsible to you, but if you were to try to sway the Tenno from that course of action on that basis, they'd look at you with the same contempt as they do any typical grineer or corpus tyrant. No matter the path you choose in-game, whether light, dark, balance, they are all reflections of the very core of a Tenno, to fight with honor. Releasing Wally is irresponsible, but releasing Rell is honorable, and so release him we must. If we did not, could we call ourselves true Tenno? Or would we be like the Stalker and his pitiful followers, little more than slaves to our bloodlust. So the question shouldn't be 'was releasing Rell and Wally correct?' And instead should be 'WOULD THE TENNO release a force of pure evil, if only to save a fellow Tenno in torment?'
"the Tenno who rejected you have come to your aid" always bugged me. First thought was "what did my tenno do to him?" then "how da feck do you know that?" But sick theory as always man edit: just an after thought what if the tenno that rejected Rell was his doppleganger? Since his face is shadowed and all
Honestly... Probably about 50 50. That's why lore speculation is always so hard. They can retcon things, they can completely change stances if a new idea is something they want to go with... but, it does appear some of this has to have been in the works for a while.
I don't think spoiler warnings are necessary anymore. A lot of this game's content is kind of old so if a handful of people don't know about certain things by now that is on them.
Hmmm going off of the video the operator could be the man in the wall and the drifter is the actual tenno or vice versa. I also have a theory about who thrax might and that be he might be the drifter/the operator. so basically he's the child part of the operator, the reason i think that is haven't you noticed on how overly mature the operator is for their age? (granted it might be due to the trauma they went through and or some other stuff the orokin did, anyways) theres the drifters loss of emotion, i think those parts of the operator and the drifter lost they manifested as thrax and why the drifter is able to get their emotions back at the end of the quest. also I'd like to remind that the drifter/the operator created duviri, so how does someone like thrax become in charge of our creation? unless he's us.
So... the overarching idea is... if the man in the wall is the void manifested as a conscience, then it would have unfettered access to really whatever was already utilizing it in any way, and I think with how we've seen the tenno be taken over by the man in the wall at times, he probably can do the same to all of them, with exception of maybe the drifter because he didn't take the deal. However... Neither did Albrecht Entrati and it didn't seem to affect him getting a version so... it might just be all of it.
@@TheDsIEGE the part of Albrecht saying that he's doesn't know who actually escaped idk to me i thought it was he doesn't know if he's the real one or just a doppelganger actual Albrecht.
Oh, I know this already and agree but... while as I'm not sure that DE had always intended it as such, emotions now play a huge role in the grander warframe story overall, building entire worlds, creating the worst of monsters and potentially even making entire ships. Rell was very special, although I'm not sure we still even know why as far as the story itself goes. To me it's interesting how relevant chains of harrow still is all these years later, a sign of the same people crafting the story throughout and making it an incredibly intricate web, especially now, with... Emotions really being a major driver for the narrative.
warframe is the only true hard sci-fi game out there. the themes, concepts and event it touches are all incredibly dark, and full of hidden meaning. too bad more people don't even try to engage with this stuff.
"Albrech Entrati to his dying days..." hm. In a zariman tablet Wally questions what happened to Albrecht so we are unsure if he is dead, his daughter seems to believe he is in the void too.
Also another thing: just noticed how the Red veil insanity on the Steel maridian ship is the same as adults' insanity on Zariman
When you run across Duviri, the children tend to say the darndest things... little rhymes and songs... I overheard this during the Envy Spiral:
"Something's watching through the window, Watching you and watching me... wants what we have. wants to *BE* us! we know that can never be." "Something's waiting, getting closer, watching, waiting for its day, Something needy, cruel and greedy....keep that hungry thing at bay!"
I thought of the Lotus being taken by wally as well. Like she's been trapped in her chair in her chair for even longer than us. Void exposure is toxic to Sentients. But she actually has het own form of void powers now.
Oh and I think the reason why Ballas has a Duviri version now, is because at the end of the New War, Ballas his dead body got sucked into the void portal. Just like how our dying body got thrown into the void by Ballas.
I was thinking the same thing... on all of this!
Ballas being present in Duviri may be due to the fact that he was the one to sentance Kullervo, a free-willed frame, so it wouldn't be so wild to assume the warden was created purely through Kullervo's guilt
This video has shifted my entire perspective on the story, wow
I know right? All the old quests have such a different feel now!
All I'm saying is... Some pages are lost then replace, rewrite, then forgotten, and lost again...
During the final part of the new war, just before the lotus does the creepy smile, if you look at her hand you will notice a void effect. Its easy to miss, and honestly i think your graphic settings could cause it not to appear, but its there. Pretty sure she struck a deal with wally to save us from the situation. Ya know, fighting directly next to the sun, on a vessel with a declining orbit. I think he pops up and offers people a choice during critocal moments, as he did with us on the zariman. He was like ill save you from all this but you have to shake my hand. We did and now the lotus has.
Edit: also when the wall comes in he is saying vome fass xata etc.
I subscribe to the theory dominus thrax is rell. His emotions literally change duviri, rell had problems with emotions. Dsiege im not sure if you checked out the lore fragments in duviri, but they have stories of islands that thrax set adrift. Farming island with blood from the soil, school island where a bunch of creepy smile dopplegangers showed up, etc. I think duviri is the last bastion in the void, and the void is slowly but surely encroaching on it. Taking one island at a time until nothing is left.
The lighthouse keeper was crushed by falling chains, and before he died he said he saw a hand slowly approaching everyday. The hand was missing a finger.
A DE writer confirmed that Wally isn't saying "oull ris xata vome", but something else, we haven't found out what
@DakkaLunae the end is for sure Mara Lohk. There are more requiem words we found on Duviri and that one fits perfectly
@@DakkaSolae would you happen to have a link? I've never heard that before.
@@securatyyy during Tennocon 2022's sounds of the system, they confirmed that it was something else he was saying
But the Lotus is a sentinel, how would she be able to wield the void?
I, personally, am entirely happy to work with void daddy for whatever -nerfarious- definitely _beneficient_ ends hes seeking... so long as he gives me more power and shiny things.
I think he's willing to give us all if we just go along with him... Again, I think at this point he's proud of us.
@@TheDsIEGE All the more reason to remain on his side. And it doesn't even cost us much, Wally is True Neutral, he doesn't care what we use our powers for all that much, which makes him an excellent patron. Besides, he's right, we are nothing without him; not just our powers and immorality are due to him, everything we've done since the Zariman incident was only possible because he saved us and subsequently stopped other potential deaths. We really do owe him big time.
@@notsae66 question is, what is going to ask in return?
@@Adrian-ow6pr He already told us, our light. And we gave it to him willingly, even if we didn't understand the full context.
Least greedy/hoardy tenno:
That effect used for when the Warden and Wally disappear looks an awful lot like the radiation gore effect. Either A) there is some connection or B) it is just DE saving time and money.
Very good observation, I've just only seen two npc's do that...
Radiation has a gore effect? Never seen it so far.
@@TheDsIEGELephantis’s heads do it when you kill them in the fight, I’m pretty sure it’s just the effect used to despawn an NPC with animations
@@tdw745 It's the despawn/disintegrate animation. Killing with Corrosive is extremely similar or identical. Many other materials and other objects disappearing do it as well. Additionally, the reason the eyes fade right toward the end is 'cause typically eyes are rendered separately in many games (sometimes with other details like teeth) which is also a pretty big giveaway as well that it's just a standard anim applied to both of those NPC models.
@@tdw745lephanits heads explode, dont just dissappear, like wally
I feel that us tenno will end up alone against it all in the long run.
Most likely... But, we'll have each other and that's gotta count for something!
@@TheDsIEGE most definitely
Aren't we alone alredy??
@@ArgKnoxville86 I mean without the lotus, ordis, and all the other allies
@@TheDsIEGE I was going to make the point that if we do need to face Wally, maybe our capacity to form bonds and feel emotions would be the advantage we have, but I was struck by an interesting thought; what if, by Wally taking our light, he gained the ability to feel that sorta stuff. It would even partially explain why he's never hurt us and has just followed us around a lot; maybe he's fascinated by us, maybe it's the first time he's cared about anything and he doesn't know what to do about it. The "Light" he took from us has to mean something, and while our Oro or Soul would also work, a newfound capacity to feel emotions would explain his somewhat erratic behavior. Or course, this would beg the question of why we can still feel things, but perhaps him taking our light doesn't mean he can't share it with us; one fire can warm many, after all.
See this is why I love this game, Warframe may have one of the best Sci-Fi lore ever if they keep on focusing more on Wally and the mysterious aspect of the void.
It's a cool ideia to see us playing as a doppelganger of ourselfs, DE loves the idea of changing the rules of the game and the player
This is probably one of the best videos you have done regarding the actual lore of Warframe. DE should push this video if they ever want to bring people back to their game. I think you should definetly do more, like videos on the views we have had on the void itself or how about the derelict or the orokin? But this video is amazing, very good job
Thank you, and yes, I feel like it's time to revisit some of the old quests to see how the new war and duviri effect it, at the same time giving people (what I feel at least) is an entertaining synopsis of what happened. We all could use a refresh on some of this stuff, I'm sure. But thank you again, I appreciate ya!
Agree
Bring people back? LOL the community is bigger than ever right now. Swarms of players joining my clan these days.
@@maarek71 Everyone I have ever played with, has quit the game long ago. I quit when The New War came out, because at that point the game lots its sense of meaning, they are just never going to give us anything straight story-wise and gameplay-wise they keep pushing the game to be less Warframe and more everything else.
Maybe he's just smiling because he sees, that we are indeed following down the path he saw before us. Or maybe we're one of the tenno that despite the odds ended up succeeding where we were supposed to fail.
To me this reaffirms the concept of the Man in the Wall as God, the Void as the Holy Spirit, and the Tenno Jesus, both entirely man and entirely God. Warframe plays with these concepts a lot more, such as Transference and Eternalism, but at the core I think that Trinity remains. Maybe because of this I am drawn towards the Man in the Wall. I have never, in my entire playthrough, seen him as an enemy. I remember when Lotus left I was comfortable following and trusting him without question. I think his plan and unorthodox means of executing it are meant to mimic that of the real God, and like the real God, these methods cause people to doubt both his existence and intentions.
It's funny you should mention that. I have a video coming up soon regarding the concept of the trinity in warframe, as it's all over the place in the lore, not just with the tenno. Also... I'll be talking about how I see the overarching story going in one of two ways, oedipal in that we are forced to kill our father or... what it looks like now, we are to be sacrificed for the entirety of the universes salvation, and there's a Zariman tablet that specifically says "I said I'd save them all, Tenno. Never said I'd save you" which leads me to believe we are currently on the path of the latter...
@@TheDsIEGE The major problem with that, is that the Tenno dying/sacrificing themselves/their power would make future play impossible; something DE will never do.
I also never saw The Man In The Wall as an enemy, though for different reasons. He's demonstrated that he has the power to effect reality and potentially harm us whenever he wants, yet he's only ever given us tough love at worst. He may be hostile to the system or life in general (possibly by his sheer presence being harmful to mortals), but he's at the very least nominally on our side so far. Nothing he's done so far has been harmful to us (aside from during CoH, during which he was lashing out at the world over being trapped, and the Lotus shades after she left, which were weak and arguably more a harsh way to help us get over the pain of her betrayal than a real attack) and he's provided help we would be utterly powerless without.
This is a interesting concept. The idea of Warframe using biblical parallels in it's core lore. But that also begs the question, is Wally more along the lines of God, or Lucifer?
If we're talking biblical. Wally reminds me more of Lucifer, in the fact he represents forbidden knowledge and that the void is more akin to a warping Hell as mortals who are not protected usually end up become corrupt creatures prone to suffer until they are ultimately put down. Wally could very well could be the Serpent luring us into temptation, instead of the loving but firm father of creation.
I don't know why, but I feel the exact opposite of comforted everytime I interact with the Man in the Wall. There's a layer of uneaseiness.
The confident charismatic way he seems to behave thinly veils his manic undertones (the infamous unhinged grin comes to mind.)
The way he appears to feed off our emotions mimics how Lucifer uses the flaws of man to corrupt them and turn them away from the righteous path. The way he appears to make "deals" isn't hidng the fact it's a "deal with the devil" situation. You get something you desperately want, in exchange for your soul.
Perhaps the whole concept is a twisted version of the holy trinity. I just don't see Wally being akin to God himself. He strikes me more along the lines of the devil luring victims to do his bidding by manipulation and taking advantage of one's desperation.
*I.E like a child losing their mother figure and is in desperate need of guidance and comfort...*
@@nirablackfire2792 while I understand this correlation, specifically the “deal with the Devil” aspect, I think Wally still is more of a good figure. As the user above mentioned, he is a seemingly omnipotent being that has not harmed us. As I said in the original comment, the unorthodox means by which Wally gets what he wants are akin to God’s. God made many deals throughout the Bible with many people. The Jews weren’t supposed to worship other gods and he would give them the promised land, but they did and he made them all die and gave it to their children. David was meant to reign peacefully his whole life, but Bathsheba and what he did to her changed that. Solomon was meant to reign equally calmly after his father, but his womanizing was his destruction. In every instance God told them that if they obeyed him he would grant them prosperity, and at every instance they didn’t and he took it from them. I see Wally like that. He is asking for our obedience, and if we obey he will do as we wish too. I see failed obedience resulting in our destruction. Again, as I said before, this trade off will make a lot of people not trust Wally, just like it makes a lot of people not trust God.
Very, very good video sir!!
I have long thought about the handshake that started everything. It was the Lotus' right hand, attached to the Wally version of us just like it is attached to the Drifter's right hand. In addition, if you watch the ending of the New War again, it looks like Wally absorbed itself into her left hand, smoke trailing from it as she shakes it off. When we carry her back to her room, the first thing she does is look at that hand, kinda favoring it as she grabs her arm with it, looking unsure of herself. Of course, that handshake was before she received that hand chop from Ballas, meaning she has been "infected" by Wally for a while...centuries.
Lotus...is a mimic. She can be anyone at anytime and, if her initial voyage through the void was her first encounter with Wally, then perhaps her deal was to have "children" again, in exchange for Wally being able to travel within her.
Lastly, the New War trailer has a different scenario than what we actually play. This is also the case from the last TennoCon's Duviri demo, where the Drifter picks up her hand instead of it attaching. Could this be intentional moves by DE?
I think you're the first commenter to pick up on that... I have a video on her coming up. So interesting that she is the mimic queen, and the man in the wall likes to make copies of himself. Ever see another sentient do ANYTHING like what the Lotus can, LOL?
@@TheDsIEGE We see some sentient mimics in the first cinematic for the sacrifice, but that's about it. Lotus does seem to be unusually powerful for a sentient, I mean she hid the moon in the void for gods sake. Maybe that was also infused by Wally somewhat? Hiding the Zariaum children in his domain for who knows how many years
Really great video! It feels like it's all coming together.
Thank you so much and yes, warframe's lore is just killing it right now!
My takeaway from Chains of Harrow is that it was Rell who was bound there, but he was being possessed by Wally, who was using him to reach out and finally break through from the Void into our world via helping him.
Albrecht, Rell, Lotus and the Operator all share a connection of not only making direct contact with Wally, but also in that their memories and connections are exposed and exploited during times of immense importance/stress to achieve results that cause dramatic shifts in the world around them. Each of us effectively becoming sleeper agents to be activated when needed to cause the balance of things to change, and bring our world that much closer to the Void.
"Speak"
"listen"
".... between the dust to the Void"
I love that that line
i think DE will never reveal what or who is the man in the wall. The character itself was meant to be eldritch and a lovecraftian kind of entity. Shrouded in eternal mysteries, never to be understood its goal or the point of it existence. Its just...there, and it exist, and we dont know what, why or how.
Perhaps he existence might be way beyond our human comprehensiveness, and thats what makes The Man In The Wall so interesting yet haunting. He makes us questions everything.
Nah I'm pretty sure the man in the wall is the Sergeant
Amazing video. The new quests that were showed at TennoCon had me going down a rabbit hole of all the lore. You realize how deep the story really does go.
Mind blowing as always. I don't have anything more insightful to say as of now; just dropping a like and a comment to help appease the algorithm. Happy to have you back, Siege
I have the presumption that wally was actually about to escape from rell and paladino simply got tenno within wally's sight to divert his attention away from red veil. The fact that rell was actually "tired" points in this direction.
I see the Drifter as the Rell of his timeline, with Dominus and his Dax being Tenno equivalents, and Teshin the man-in-the-wall stand-in. It's an alternative timeline built through parallel. One in which Drifter isn't saved from the trauma, but gets to rely on a father figure. Everything about the lore and nature of Duviri suggests that it never featured any of the other children, as only the Drifter survived. Even the holdfasts aren't part of the Drifter's native reality, but rather those who lived through the catastrophe on the Operator's side of the timeline.
I swear these videos always come in whenever I feel bored about the game. The storylines Future is extremely exciting.
My guess is for DE's plan for this Man in the wall story, is probably to do 1-2 more small story quests with the man in the wall uniquely in them for some integral way. Moving into the next big story line quest being about the Lotuses Visions / backstory besides the stuff we already know. This all leading up to the next big New War style quest being about figuring out who is the man in the wall.
It's interesting to consider the possibility we only interacted with Rells mimic, however I find it unlikely given the content of the "memories" we are shown. Understanding emotions and making connections with people who have been hurt are not just key themes of warframes story, they are fundamental aspects of the tenno's power. Given what we saw with whispers in the walls Wally actively tries to prevent the tenno from gaining knowledge which helps us connect with Loid and "take his pain away". With that context I think its unlikely Rells mimic would show us flashbacks demonstrating how his understanding of emotion made him resistant to Wallys influence.
First 40k with Eldritch Concepts of Being, then Lancer with Eldritch Math, and now Warframe with Eldritch Biology. What's next, Eldritch Language Arts? Wait, that's just Cthulhu...
At this rate, I'll be able to take Eldritch School Classes.
The thing behind Rell I guess he was chained too looks like the mother and others from Deimos that come out of those tentacles pod things. I’m surprised I haven’t seen more people talk about that
the sound effect on this quest scared the crap out of me as i had good headphones
When I drank the kuva at the quest instead, space-dad told me "what took you so long?" the ramifications are now a little more...daunting.
The more you stare inside abyss, abyss stares back at you
i forgot your channel existed, and now this got recommended to me, I'm genuinely so excited to sit here and listen, i already know its gonna be incredible
Bro this is the only warframe content I neeeeed. So glad you're back 🤧
Thank you and I'm glad you liked it! It was really fun to make!
Amazing video , thank you . i think we will get some answers or more questions in tennocon .
An interesting twist would be that Wally isn't the antagonist, but rather a being preparing us for something far more dangerous, tho his methods are suspicious due to his alien nature. Might sound lazy, but given that he helps us in many ways, despite it seeming like it's only for his own benefit, his "deal" with us may be meant to get us ready for something more.
Well.. if we are the 'other' Tenno, wouldn't that make sense, given the existence of The Drifter?
So we went from space ninjas too kids with ptsd too kids with ptsd and derealization, sounds like warframe lore to me
You got it, complete with an eldritch god who likes to mess with us just for the fun of it, Good times!
An awesome video as always. A lot to think about. And speculate. But I just had some really insane idea. As you were playing video from Chains of Harrow and I was listening at the voice of Rell's mother... I got a feeling that she is speaking in a very simmilar manner like Mathila in Duviri. (The joy character)...
Anyway.... can't wait for another video...
I think the man in the wall has to follow the void logic of emotions and thought manifesting things. So in the Chains of Harrow quest, because we (the tenno, lotus and palladino) expected Rell, it looked like Rell (at least if it is really Wally and not the real Rell). All the other times we see it in a quest, it is in moments where the Tenno is deeply connected with themself (like in the War Within). To be honest, I don't think the Man in the Wall has too much agency in its actions, and I would even go so far as to say that it is not really an individual entity, but more like a half-being that represents the void itself. I think a good analogy are the old gods from the lovecraftian mythos, as they also act as individuals, but without any self-awareness, and are bound to their "path" of what they are supposed to be.
Also, concerning the question of Albrecht Entrati, it is well wihtin the knowledge about the void that we gain on the zariman that actually both came back (the question about whether tha father or the mother survives). That could also be why palladino is acting so strange: It might be stretch, but due to how close we came to the void in the chains of harrow quest, that might just be a kind of uncertainty of which reality we are in: the one where it is rell or the one where it is wally who contacted us.
These videos are very well done. I adore your content!
Thank you!!!
It's so good that you're back, and really made me change how I see the story.
Very comprehensive. I wonder if the void was capable of forming anything before Albrecht entered.
I feel like it needed a "muse", if you will...
@@TheDsIEGE Albrecht Entrati loosely means "all bright entered", talk about nominative determinism.
I wonder if the operator is the other to the drifter? The drifter is within the void, as he says to the operator in The New War, he is “the one who never got out of this mess” (quote was something similar) so maybe when the zariman entered the void (and everyone else that ever enters the void) that itself was what created a doppelgänger of the zariman and all of its passengers and that ship was the one to leave the void? Now the remaining questions would be what caused it to leave the void and how does wally fit in, id say that wally is what actually creates the doppelgängers as he is obviously connected to the operator, entrati, rell, lotus. Using this im suggesting that he creates the doubles by somehow merging his void body/ spirit with our corporeal one, making a complete copy of the original person but with a unseverable connection to the void (or at least to him), allowing wally to interact with them in a limited way but as he has no influence on the solar system he cannot take advantage of the double as easily and must taunt and attempt to coerce them mentally, the tenno are the only instance of a further connection to wally through the handshake/ deal we make and rell choosing to outright fight against him by trapping himself and wally in the somatic link (i think its called that). which gives us our void powers(drifter only gets his powers after somehow connecting with operator in TNW). Im also suggesting that wally sent the operators zariman out of the void because he finally achieved an actual foothold of the physical world
You are cooking for sure. From what I've seen I believe everybody misinterprets how the man in the wall speaks. His goal isnt to make us trust him, it's to make him real (similar to the ahamkara in destiny [oh _ mine]). It seems to me that he belittles, scares, and taunts his victims in order to break down their will and then take control from there. He takes the form of his victims to make them think that he IS them and that he is in control. It makes sense to me that transference / mind control is a power given by the void, and that a God of the void would be able to use such power on any being he wants, so long as he is able to break down their will.
I understand rell now, his work was beyond noble. But now... Whatever you do, don't welcome him into your orbiter.
Doesn't Quinn sense 2 people in us and ask us which we think is real ?
yeah this quest freaked me out the first time i played it.
I hope they don't outright tell us what he is, but that they heavily imply it with a simple "...I. Am... I... Am." with the seeming entirety of the void(or the rift between The Zariman and Duviri) behind him when someone inevitably asks "...what are you?"
I don't think he's that kind of god... Way too mischievous to make it that simple. If you play Destiny I'd akin his personality to that of Savathun, a trickster god, only Wally is cosmically powerful and infinite in nature.
@@TheDsIEGE it's that infinite aspect which would have it make sense, and just because he tells us he's infinite himself couldn't mean he isnt still just a filthy cosmic memester at his core lol... and nah, I don't play Destiny. I play warframe :v
Ya know, that part you mentioned about the Lotus smiling? I remember that part when finishing the quest and I remember thinking to myself, "well that's weird" LOL. Of course, I got myself distracted and forgot all about it, until now. Man, every time I watch one of your videos you just end up smacking my brain cells around. 😂 WF lore has always had me intrigued, I definitely look forward to your thoughts, great video.
Thank you! I have a video on her coming up in the near future going over the lotus after the new war... There's a lot to go over, lol...
In the same way rell could be analogous to dominus thrax, similar but not the same, kullervo is almost analogous to ordis, both killed a blue skinned despot only to be tortured for effectively eternity only for the drifter/operator to help redeem them :)
I think "the New War" and "the Duviri paradox" were a pretty good payoff to the story setup so far
Saw the void entity on my ship yesterday. Been quite a while.
I think the warden is simply a copy of the ballas kullervo remembers, the executor he hated so much, just like our memory brought the different daxes.
Sure could Kiddo...
Warframe really knows how to do cosmic horror
100% agree, and I'd love another quest in this way.
More questions than answers, my brain can handle that
Really glad to see you back man; I've been a long time viewer and was missing your breakdowns. Will you be attending Tennocon this year?
Thank you for this video dude !
Now I need to re re replay all the quests
something that changed my entire perspective of Wally recently is also something that I have not seen *anybody* talk about...
In Duviri, if you find Sythel in her barred up house, one of the things she says is, "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started."
Pretty much everyone I've talked with or listened to about Wally talk about Wally as though he's an entity that originates from, or is an embodiment, of the Void. Which is what I previously thought, but Sythel directly states that The Man in the Wall was the first ever case of Conceptual Embodiment (from a Zariman tablet in Duviri: Q: What is Conceptual Embodiment? A: Concepts taking on form in the Void.) There are a ton of things in Duviri that talk about how travel through the void requires a calm mind, because the Void manifests emotions, thats what the entire story of Duviri is about, its a story book for children to teach them about how they need to calm the dragons of their emotions lest they become real in the Void. And what do we know of Albrecht's first ever voyage into the Void? He was terrified of it. He feared that he would die empty in that void, losing all of himself. So thus, the Void, given its very first ever interaction with emotion, took shape, just as Sythel says. The Man in the Wall did not exist before Albrecht Entrati first voyaged into the Void. It couldn't have.
We are BOTH. The tenno AND the man in the wall. The 10-0 child AND the doppelganger. The man in the wall is inside us and once exposed to the indifference we cannot escape. Algorithm fuel.
YES!!!
9:24 I knew it was coming and it still made my hair stand up 😭
While I might not be right, the man in the wall gives me a similar feel to Happy Chaos from the Guilty Gear story, some guy who's incredibly smart and gifted taps into a space between worlds and dimensions and uses it to become all powerful and after a while(thousands of years of while) shows themselves to humanity again to offer a sort of bargain. For Happy Chaos he gives humans magic in return for entertainment, but the Mitw seems to give us void powers(basically void magic lets be honest) in return for, something, probably either loyalty or us doing dirty work for him. Additionally the name "The Man in the Wall" makes him seem mortal and trapped, that despite his seemingly god-like power he's still mortal, still vulnerable, and still possibly trapped in the void. And maybe he's trying to get us to get him out of the void, like we did for Parvos, maybe even having his hands in getting parvos out of the granum void as a sort of test in order to see if we can release him, and now knowing we can he's going full throttle, trying to start a war with the lotus because maybe he knows the lotus would have told us what he is planning so he has to take out the lotus first in order to lead us to setting him free. Just a few thoughts, again I'm probably wrong as I haven't been doing any lore hunting of my own but I still thought it might be worth it to share y'know
The Void and everything relating to it is as wibbly wobbly as real physics.
After this video I took a look at the Harrow scene in Captura and it's interesting if you look at what Harrow is viewing. That source of the light at Harrow looks awfully like an eye.
When the Donda activates, it says "Yara"
This reminds me of bloodborne. think of the man in the wall as an eldrich being and the tenno as a baby eldrich being . the babies are in a different state of "sleep" than the adults and therefore not fully under their control. So maybe we are just baby "wally's" the huske of former humans turned eldrich by a simple handshake (and agreement). my question would then be "what are the other "wally's" diong? How much more chaos is going on in other (unknown to us) parts of the universe?"
I just realized Lotus's glove does not cover her index finger and thumb
What if Drifter was the real Tenno but we were “the other”? What if Rell wasn’t tired and instead his doppelgänger said that to help convince us that releasing the chains was the right thing to do?
He could be in this very room! He could be you! He could be me! He could even be-
I guess we now know who's the biggest threat in the story of Warframe.
"The Man In The Wall".
He is our God and Demon.
-"But the man in the wall. Who will... ?"
-"They will have to. All of them. They owe you this. We all do."
Maybe the whole question was "But the man in the wall. Who will keep hit at bay?"
Also I would not call MITW/Void a virus. The way he talks about Tenno being nothing without him is exacly what Venom (from Marvel) says to it's host. He is parasite/symbiote.
oh the good old existencial paradox, yeah, we deffinitly are "the other" since the untainted and unfused tenno was the drifter, but doesn't matter if we are an impostor, we are what we are and that is what matters, but those paralels are great and make a lot of sense and its a shame that I feel like half of what became plausible after the new war must be unintended and DE just didn't have any idea of the can of worms they opened.
I feel like up to The Sacrifice, the loremaster of DE had a clear vision and had a great team to make things tight, but then, staff changed and the game isn't the same anymore. =/
It should be noted that the dev team has taken some major liberties from the Southern Reach trilogy for the void lore. Especially when Annihilation, the 2018 film came out.
Albricht never left the Void.
If that's the case, why are there two of us now running around as both the Operator and the Drifter?
Well, there's the idea of the Trinity. The drifter is one part, the operator is the final form and given that all of this doesn't happen without the man in the wall... he's the third.
glad you are back !!! great vid
Thank you!!!
Ngl, I have autism and the quest with Rell felt like DE put a mirror in front of me.
Assuming Albrecht's copy was right, and it was Wally that came back through--breaking OG Albrecht out would make for awesome story content.
He is back!
Thinking out lound here but might Walley be a manifestation of cosmic chaos. Basically an in the beginning everything was dark and void then creation happened if you want to use a religious version.
So when creation happened the void was pushed back as it were leaving the void on the outside looking in and reflecting it in a way but constantly trying to worm its way in.
The more it gets in the more chaos happens and the material universe comes apart at the seams in the form of void storms and the like.
Tldr my logic is that there is a cosmic scales that shift depending on which cycle is dominant the material plain of the cosmic energy and the balance changes between order and chaos. Just a thought though.
Between the operators, albrecht and rell; isn‘t it kind of obvious that what returns is always changed? It‘s always a demon (that is to say, an impossible question). It‘s always Wally.
Now, I‘m still convinced there has to be some connection between the Wall of Bones and the infested. we‘ll see where that goes.
Consider too we at least have two other confirmed dopplegangers in universe. Archimedian Yonta saw hers as did Baro Kiteer...
One thing i could add is how the dead bodies of our fallen enemies fade away in almost the same manner.
They do but what makes theses two unique is that they are npc's. I can't think of any other npc's that act in this manner. Even the vagabond character in duviri doesn't do this. He will stay until you look away, like the way the Man in the wall used to work. Not sure if it's anything but I wanted to include it because it does seem odd
@@TheDsIEGE Now you got me wanting to play through it all again to see if i missed anything in the story XD
I still have my head cannon that the drifter is the human of the Tenno and not some sort of different timeline like is implied, and the (what I’m dubbing ‘void clones’) are the Tenno, sons and daughters of the ‘Man in the wall’. We may be considering the wrong possibility of what Entrati thinks. The main thing that makes me think the is that there is a sold them of parenthood in the majority of the games main antagonists, Hunhow lotas father and our disapproving grandfather, Balis an aregent manipulative stepfather who would rather see us dead, and this does apply to the main characters, lotus, margulus, tenshen, heck even Vore has a strange uncle vibe even if he doesn’t follow the trend I’ve pointed out. I think the man in the wall was and possibly still is going to be our “bio father”. This is why our human selves has been kept away form us, in the form of the drifter but because balis even if a void clone is did in my opinion work against the man in the wall trying to destroy the sun and all of that. Anyway thank you for coming to my tedtalk I wish you all a great day
my stance on wally... cthulhu isn't inherently evil.. just the stories about him show that his existence is toxic to the human mind
wally isn't evil.. wally isn't good.. wally just exists. and he doesn't really care about us in the long run. he's just poking to see what we do
HE'S BACK AAYYYE FAM HOW YOU BEEN
Good!!! Better since I've been uploading again. Thank so much for coming back and watching!
@@TheDsIEGE no homie ty for coming back brother I wish you the best of luck in your future videos shedding light on the mysteries of Warframe ✨
for the final question, is there any other response than "both" after duviri/new war?
That's the question, isn't it kiddo?
Paladino is trustworthy. She didn't lie once in the context of the quest, and is willing to help us.
She didn't "free" the man in the wall, she freed Rell from his permanent position as the jailer for Wally. She said it was our job now, it is the least we could do for Rell after how we treated him on the Zariman.
I have not doubt that Paladino believes what she said. However I think we should all take what she says with a grain of salt. First of all I think it's important to note that Red Veil are canonically a religious group. So you'll forgive people for not taking a religious zealots word as law. I don't think Paladino meant to free the man in the wall but that doesn't mean she didn't do it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Also I don't think Rell was fully holding back the man in the wall. If he was we wouldn't have came into contact with our tenno in the War Within as chronologically Chains of Harrow comes after. I don't think it's too crazy to think that Rell had been overtaken by Wally since the beginning of the quest. After all if he could trick a well learned man such as Albretch why not a child like Rell? He also was able to trick our operator as well. Also interestingly enough Paladino means " to make oneself a champion of liberty" just thought that was an interesting find.
So might the man in the wall be similar to the lotus in a way since he can also control the tenno like the lotus did or am i misunderstanding something?
Well... what I'm saying is she might already be in the same boat as we are. The man in the wall can overtake us at any point. Why wouldn't he be able to do the same with her? Every entity he's come into contact with has been either copied, assimilated or both, and she's seen him too.
18:49 Is it just me or is that guy missing the index finger of his right hand?
Oh yeah... he is. That's the vagabond, who only shows up every so often in Duviri. The man is everywhere, lol
Why is our Tenno the only Tenno?
So if it really is walle that escaped from Zariman, Stalker and Hunhow are trying to kill the Void itself 😂
Probably why they are so bad at achieving it, because it might not be possible!
Binging currently
I finished the video: yeah no I think this is overthinking it, almost to a problematic extent.
Rell lost the battle to Wally, allowing him to overtake his being and possess him. However, because Rell had chained himself in body and spirit, Wally was chained as well. In order to save Rell from a fate of eternal torment, we had to free him from his mortal coil-by extension, freeing Wally. Paladino knew this, WE by extension knew this, we simply didn't care, because as Paladino and Rell put it, holding off Wally was going to be our burden now.
My biggest issue with the theory presented is that it completely undermines the emotional impact of the quest, to little gain, but to overly complicate an already complicated story.
Well, it is just a theory based on info in the game but... We still don't know what the man in the wall is to this day definitively, but you think we willingly unleashed such a malevolent entity? Seems a bit irresponsible, don't you think? Further... We purposely don't owe Rell anything, and Palladino just telling us that we do shouldn't be a catalyst for unleashing an obvious threat into the system. You don't think there's any room for misdirection here given all the contradictions we see in quest? I respect it, but... also respectfully disagree. I suppose we'll see in the end tho. Best part about theory crafting, you never REALLY know where things will go next.
@TheDsIEGE you assume the Tenno, and warframe in general, is about doing what is considered 'responsible' and 'correct', that's where your entire theory falls apart.
The Tenno, by their very nature, do what is 'moral', and 'honorable'. Releasing a child from eternal torment and also releasing a eldritch entity seems irresponsible to you, but if you were to try to sway the Tenno from that course of action on that basis, they'd look at you with the same contempt as they do any typical grineer or corpus tyrant. No matter the path you choose in-game, whether light, dark, balance, they are all reflections of the very core of a Tenno, to fight with honor.
Releasing Wally is irresponsible, but releasing Rell is honorable, and so release him we must. If we did not, could we call ourselves true Tenno? Or would we be like the Stalker and his pitiful followers, little more than slaves to our bloodlust.
So the question shouldn't be 'was releasing Rell and Wally correct?' And instead should be 'WOULD THE TENNO release a force of pure evil, if only to save a fellow Tenno in torment?'
"the Tenno who rejected you have come to your aid" always bugged me. First thought was "what did my tenno do to him?"
then "how da feck do you know that?"
But sick theory as always man
edit: just an after thought what if the tenno that rejected Rell was his doppleganger? Since his face is shadowed and all
My guess is Rell told her, or one of her predecessors.
Could be or what if it was OUR doppleganger?
7:50 lol photobomb by some kavat
Come on bro I don't need to be having a existential crisis when playing Warframe I just want to go shoot shoot shoot bang bang
Oh, cmon, it adds to the fun!
@@TheDsIEGE true very true, it's still going to be keeping my lore loving side up at night 😭😂
what is the man in the wall isnt the only one of his kind
That's a real good question...
I really wonder how much of the story is emergent, and how much is pre-written
Honestly... Probably about 50 50. That's why lore speculation is always so hard. They can retcon things, they can completely change stances if a new idea is something they want to go with... but, it does appear some of this has to have been in the works for a while.
HEY KIDDO !
I don't think spoiler warnings are necessary anymore. A lot of this game's content is kind of old so if
a handful of people don't know about certain things by now that is on them.
I still don't think it's as simple as it's 1 or the other. Look into dissociative personality disorder
So rell = kanye west?
Hmmm going off of the video the operator could be the man in the wall and the drifter is the actual tenno or vice versa.
I also have a theory about who thrax might and that be he might be the drifter/the operator. so basically he's the child part of the operator, the reason i think that is haven't you noticed on how overly mature the operator is for their age? (granted it might be due to the trauma they went through and or some other stuff the orokin did, anyways) theres the drifters loss of emotion, i think those parts of the operator and the drifter lost they manifested as thrax and why the drifter is able to get their emotions back at the end of the quest.
also I'd like to remind that the drifter/the operator created duviri, so how does someone like thrax become in charge of our creation? unless he's us.
So... the overarching idea is... if the man in the wall is the void manifested as a conscience, then it would have unfettered access to really whatever was already utilizing it in any way, and I think with how we've seen the tenno be taken over by the man in the wall at times, he probably can do the same to all of them, with exception of maybe the drifter because he didn't take the deal. However... Neither did Albrecht Entrati and it didn't seem to affect him getting a version so... it might just be all of it.
@@TheDsIEGE the part of Albrecht saying that he's doesn't know who actually escaped idk to me i thought it was he doesn't know if he's the real one or just a doppelganger actual Albrecht.
my mind kinda just went with it
Rell has autism. Look into it and come back to me with your thoughts
Oh, I know this already and agree but... while as I'm not sure that DE had always intended it as such, emotions now play a huge role in the grander warframe story overall, building entire worlds, creating the worst of monsters and potentially even making entire ships. Rell was very special, although I'm not sure we still even know why as far as the story itself goes. To me it's interesting how relevant chains of harrow still is all these years later, a sign of the same people crafting the story throughout and making it an incredibly intricate web, especially now, with... Emotions really being a major driver for the narrative.
What if he infected the lotus somehow
My thoughts exactly...
warframe is the only true hard sci-fi game out there. the themes, concepts and event it touches are all incredibly dark, and full of hidden meaning. too bad more people don't even try to engage with this stuff.