Hi Jay , I have a pair of Dynaudio Contour 20 connected to a Parasound Halo A 21+ , can you recommend me which cable to buy for this combination?? Thanks!!
Appreciate your video, but there are a couple of things that I have to point out. I would disagree with. First, it’s based on your opinion to some extent I agree that you do need clean power in regards of your gear, so you have no distortions speaker. Cable counts to some extent. My biggest thing is with this particular video as you don’t show the science like some other channels and videos that argue the wiring point obviously, personal opinion is very subjective in the realm of audio but if you’re going to make a opinion/factual debate video to instill knowledge I think it’s important to show the science not just the opinion meaning charts meaning comparisons between wires. Are there really legitimate results that justify the ridiculous prices of these wires?
@@stevenoconnor5693he’s trying to explain his journey with his own gear and environment. I don’t think we can all just bluntly trust the spec sheet or measurements, he knows his system, his room and everything else, probably has spent double or triple of what is inside that room just trying back and forth. I have to agree with him on the speaker cable, it was the first thing I changed on my very humble system (honestly, Yamaha A-S501, monitor audio bronze 2), everything stock - no fancy cables, first time I spent money was to replace the copper speaker cables for van den Hul “the Clearwater” and it was immediately different sounding. The subjective part is if it was better or worse sounding… but it sounder different. 2 years later a lot has changed on my gear and I’m currently changing the power cables and the main sockets and looking for noise leaks … it’s all a hobby, enjoy the best you can. Btw, I don’t know his system personally but I bet the noisiest thing he has in the system is that USB cable.
1) The importance of speaker cables cannot be denied. However, there is no need to waste your money on over-priced cables. 2) Speak about expensive power cables all you want but, if you are not talking about the copper wiring in your walls and the electrical distribution wiring and transformers in your neighborhood then your are full of it.
2) All that stuff comes before your power conditioner, so it doesn't matter.
7 месяцев назад+4
So the short power cable fixes all the issues that the non-audiophile wiring from the power station right up to the power outlet in your wall caused? Or maybe there is no there there and any old power cable will do, provided your electronics have implemented good filtering? If only we had a methodology to answer questions like that, say something where we provide listeners with two options to compare without them knowing what they are listening to. And then repeat the test until we get a statistically significant result. Maybe we could call it a "blind test". Oh, wait, these have been done, and they confirm what the measurements and the experts who have studied electronic engineering tell us: power cables do not make any fucking difference! But then you are a "cable believer", and belief is impervious to facts.
This is how an electrical engineer who has spent countless millions of dollars of other peoples money on more kinds of wire and cable than most people know exists sees cable in electrical systems. I'm not here to argue or debate. I know you guys would fight me to your last dying breath to prove me wrong but my knowledge comes from engineering textbooks and people who make the stuff, not from audiophiles or those who manufacture products for audiophiles. This is how we mathematically model cables. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegrapher%27s_equations If you scroll down a little you will see what we call the equivalent lumped sum parameters of a distributed parameter filter network. What does that mean? It means that the properties of cables depends on among other things on their length. So if you don't know the length, you can't do any calculations. Engineers have relied on this model for nearly 150 years because it works well. But that is not all you need to know. Here's how this model is used. The actual method starts at around 5:42 but you might want to go back slightly to see where the presenter got the source information from. ruclips.net/video/O1LQ6r4n4mk/видео.html The middle section is the model of the cable. You can see Gdx is missing. Why? Because for all practical intents and purposes in this problem and any other problems related to audio it is virtually zero and so can be ignored. On the left you can see a model of the source. This model comes from Thevenin's Theorem. This is the voltage model. There is a corresponding alternative current model called Norton's Theorem. They will give identical mathematical results. On the right side is the impedance of the load which in this case is the input stage of a phono preamplifier. If the source impedance was zero and the load impedance was infinite it wouldn't matter what the wire was as long as it was not an open or short circuit. It would have no effect. Then why don't manufacturers use a small class AB solid state output stage that has an output impedance of nearly zero instead of a cathode follower or emitter follower stage as was traditional from the days when tubes had an input impedance, so high the cable hardly mattered? Don't ask me, ask them. So a transistor amplifier might have an input impedance of 20,000 ohms or less, even as low as 5000 ohms while the output stage of much equipment is as high as 600 ohms or more. Now the cable really does matter. What's more in a worst case the input of the next stage can actually load down the output of the prior stages due to an inadequate amplifier. See John Atkinson's measurements of some Nagra preamplifiers costing $10,000 or more. Tubes usually have an input impedance of at least 100,000 ohms. This is why some manufacturers use them for the input stages of their equipment even though the rest of the circuit is solid state. This model is universally used for pretty much all circuits. As you can see, the parameters affect the frequency response of the circuit. There are many ways to alter it. IMO changing cables is the worst way. They cannot be adjusted and unless you can perform these mathematical computations you have only trial and error. Trial and error is NOT engineering, it is tinkering which is what I relegate all of the "experts" in this industry as, tinkerers. They design what they like and hope others will like it too even though they will be used under entirely different conditions. So how did this man improve the FR of the cartridge with the high frequency peak? Here's how and it didn't involve using different cables. ruclips.net/video/oUGWnGwI4_o/видео.html Electrical engineers are taught a concept called G(j*omega) spoken as G of j omega. What does it mean? G is gain. j is the symbol electrical engineers use for the square root of minus one. Why when the rest of the world uses i? Probably because they already used i for current. Why didn't they use a for amperes or c for current instead? Unfortunately they all died a long time ago so we can't ask them. If you think that's bad this is much more confusing and worse. They performed circuit calculations before they knew current flow was the result of negative particles called electrons. They thought it flowed from positive to negative. They had a 50/50 chance of being right. Unfortunately they got it wrong and so now all of the calculations are done with what is called "conventional current" which is backwards from the way current really flows. Omega is pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter times the frequency. So it is gain as a function of frequency. So what is my conclusion? It's not my money and I have no dog in this fight so I couldn't care less what you believe. The best way to adjust the overall frequency response of a sound system is by use of an equalizer. Personally I like graphic equalizers with linear sliders myself. Others prefer parametric equalizers. You can use both in series. They are inexpensive, adjustable, and introduce no noise, hum, or non linear distortion. But what about phase? Ha, tyros talk so much about phase. The electrical signal passes through what is called a zero phase system (the term didn't exist when I studied it in school.) What this means is that there is a direct correlation between the amplitude frequency response and the phase frequency response. If you know either, you can calculate the other. So if you manufacture or sell audiophile cables the first thing you have to do is convince your market that equalizers are the devil's work. And in a sense they are. If you don't have the skill to use this powerful tool you can do far more harm than good.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast Okay I confess. We electrical engineers know absolutely nothing. We've been faking it all these decades. We had a lot of people fooled but not audiophiles. You guys are just too smart for us. I told you I wasn't going to argue.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast I didn't say there was no difference. You assumed I was a denyer. Try reading my post again. If there is a difference I explained why and gave you an infinitely better solution to get the same results. BTW, the best audible test for wire is not A versus B but A versus A shunted. I will say it a different way. Using wire as a control element stinks as an engineering solution to a problem. Expensive, unpredictable, unadjustable, it has every disadvantage and no advantage. It's the worst possible choice.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast My opinions are based on four of the most grueling years of mental work in my life, my amazing education in engineering and science and nearly 50 years of having practically every wire peddler in America in my office at one time or another. I've had one hell of a career. My last job 5 years ago was as the chief electrical engineer at Bell Labs in Murray Hill NJ. Too bad the current owner Nokia ran out of money for facilities work or I'd still be there. On one of my last projects I was trying to figure out how to test the remaining life expectancy of all of the 15,000 volt feeder cables that would have to be replaced. I read half a dozen technical papers, contacted 12 sources including the Department of Energy, manufacturers of this type of wire, utilities, manufacturers of test equipment, contractors who specialize in doing this work, consultants, and others. At the end I had 18 different opinions. With nearly 60 double ended substations on that site each with duplex switching at both ends there were thousands of miles of 15 KV cable. A cable failure could ruin data from an experiment that ran for months. The total replacement cost would ultimately be in the tens of millions of dollars and take years. The problem was to find the ones that had the shortest life expectancy and replace them first. It's hard to believe how much there is to know about 15 kv cables right down to the molecular and physical changes in the insulation. They were all in underground conduits and manholes that had been flooded out with every rainstorm for over 30 years since their last replacement. This is just one of countless jobs I did that involved knowledge about wire. Now where did you get your information about wire from?
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast That is obvious. I tried my best to give you the benefit of 140 years of knowledge about wire but as they say you can bring a horse to water but...
After about 30 years into high end audio; I've learned not to assign any hierarchy to cable importance because it is system dependent and it varies from system to system. That each is equally important is closer to reality. Synergy between the cables (and cables to components/speakers) is more important than each cable alone. Yes sometimes the F-in expensive speaker cable is the missing integral piece of the puzzle. It can also be the #4 usb cable. Sometimes what is required for balance/musicality is not the $10k fancy power cord but the stock one - the cheap ass one that came with the component. In audio - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I do agree that ethernet cables are not as important as the other cables especially when one already has a Qnet. However I do have a valhalla2 ethernet cable to play with :D
"the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" Wholeheartdely agree. Proper system building( (inc cables) takes diligence and experience. It is like a form of art.
In the signal path speaker cables are last. If great speaker cables receive a signal that has been compromised, (possibly by interconnects) your speaker cables and speakers can't restore what was lost. If you want to get the best possible performance from an audio system and have any critical thinking skills you will build from the beginning to ensure that the integrity of your signal is as high as possible before it gets to the speaker cables...not ranking which cables do the most to change the sound of a system, just pointing out some factual stuff that quite a few audiophiles ignore.
Well if you go that way, you can even think even further. Speakers cable actualy transfer the most amplified signal, and most important the longuest cable of all.It is lot easier to ensure the integrity of signal on 50cm cable than 3meters, that why i think speakers cable are the most important too
@@davenull9037, If you go that way, you may be overestimating the role cable length plays in preserving signal integrity. There are lots of great sounding monoblock systems w/ interconnects that are longer than the speaker cables. If you compared a 3m pair of Audioquest RCA Dragon interconnects ($18.500) w/ let's say a 1m pair of Audioquest RCA Water interconnects ($650) in a system with superb source components, would you expect the shorter run to sound better? Of course building the best system you can is generally not simply a matter of guessing which cable run is the MVP, (have to agree w/ Hansen Dy on this). The bottom line is every part of the system has a specific job and the best speaker cable in the world cannot improve the quality of the signal it receives.
This is a very good video. This type of findings you can only find after days, weeks, months of experimenting. This is what a LAB should be doing. Thanks Jay.
@@jaysaudiolab These types of findings? All of this is hearsay until we see the scientific data (the comparable measurements) that a "Laboratory" provides.
In the grand scheme of things - can any cable make as much a difference as changing a MKP capacitor or adding a bypass capacitor or even changing the whole amp or source?
I'm glad I watched this video. I am just now in the process of Looking for wire for a brand new system I'm having made?. I'm having a Black Ice F35 intigrated amp, custom factory modified. Current speakers are Klipsch RP-600 mkll. Now i'm looking for wire. I will now be starting with speaker wires, Then power up cords. Then I'll finally do my inner connects In that order. What a great informational video.... Thanks.!
hi, what speaker and power cable would you recommend for the gryphon diablo 300 system? and which speakers would you recommend for this amplifier? I am deciding between focal scala utopia evo and gryphon pantheon. thanks Milan
I love your way of stating buying in steps and your batting order is helpful. Other high enders on RUclips: one says RCA interconnects and the other says speaker wires make the biggest difference, but there is one who swears $50 Blue Jean speaker wire is good enough on even his $15k bookshelf speakers. I have also heard that power cords make the smallest change. I bought Odin II XLRs and a USB cable. I was sold that Nordost is onto something and am waiting on a power cord and interconnects to arrive. Thx for the most informative wire video out. Good luck with your biz taking off: fan for life here!
Interesting video. I mostly agree, except I find differences among similar level speaker cables are subtler than power cords or interconnects. I understand you ranked the cables in importance when compared to stock cords, but the ranking would be the same when upgrading from an already good cable to a better one, in terms of impact?
Most of my cables are 10+ years old. Should I be concerned about advancing technology, or are well-engineered, good sounding cables from 10 years ago still relevant? Thank you for this very informative video!
If you have the same cables in your system for over 10 years, and have been happy with the results, I would think long and hard before I replaced them with something else. Some companies come out with new stuff all the time and they kind of make you feel like you need to upgrade. But not all of them. Kimber is probably the best example. He goes by the do it right the first time philosophy. Kimber has cables in production for over 30 years, and they are still selling well today. AQ is number one, and Kimber is probably 2 or 3. Just to be clear, I'm not telling you do anything either way. Only you know your system and where you went to take it. I think its great you've been happy with the same product for so long.
Friend of mine used viborg gold plated c15 iec connector for few years. Then changed the iec connector to rhodium plated and synergy changed balance also seperation & sound quality immediately changed. The gold plating on iec it seems to masks lots of fine details. Now again going to chang to pure solid silver (red carbon fibre) viborg iec c15. The iec connector alone can make a big difference in sound quality. Won't use gold plated iec again. Better using rhodium or silver for better separation and balance. Even the iec connector can make a big difference let alone the cable
You're right, rhodium plugs are very neutral sounding, gold is warmer, I have no experience with silver AC plugs. Try Furutech AC plugs with rhodium if You can. The Neotech ones (with rhodium) are less competent, they cut the ambience, strange.
To me speaker cables are not the last cables where the electricity runs through. The last cables are after the terminals of your speaker namely inside your speaker ?
IMHO and from my experience: first are power cable for the digital source and interconnect from CD-DAC to preamp; second speaker cable; third power cable for preamp; the others are important but a bit less. It's obvious that big solid state power amps need a thick power cable, minimum 14 awg conductors. I noted that the AC connectors of the power cords have a lot of influence on the sound.
I agree Jay, speaker cables carry the last result. Powercords to me are last. As long as you are using a good gauge wire with pure copper, the gear will not starve for power.
Jay, thanks for all the great information. I think you have the best system that I have ever seen and I'm just curious about why you don't use a really great cd player into your dac. Wouldn't that be higher quality than streaming?
I just purchased a new stereo system. Connected everything up and noticed one speaker sounded a little flat and was a little lower in volume. I looked at the speaker cables and found they were directional. The cable for the speaker that sounded flat was backwards. I switched it so it was in correct direction. Now this speaker sounds the same as the other speaker. I never thought it would make a difference.
Funny cause in actual testing of power cords they produce NOTHING in the audible range. In fact even outside the audible range a factory molded cord does EXACTLY what a fancy looking cord does. One function get whatever is at the source to the equipment. The biggest placebo in audio. Sorry for being so blunt but facts are facts.
I have pretty much followed this exact path, (new speaker cables, all upgraded power cords, now the question is when improving your interconnects do you start at the source or between the pre amp and amp first? (If you were to only be able to do one at at time?)
On my opinion I don't think it makes sense to rank cables importance in a full performing system. They are all equally important since a system will always perform at the level of the weakest link. Nevertheless, it makes sense to prioritise the cables purchase sequence starting by Speaker Cables and Power Cables
Regarding "Digital Music Sources" - it seems that nearly all "modern run of the mill" music is too loud / clipped? I have also found that some flacs, e.g.: "Sia's Best Of", seem "overdriven" too.
The conclusion of speaker cables first is valid only if you have appropriate power cords for each type of component. Powerful amps require larger gauge power cords and that same larger gauge power cord may not perform as well as a smaller gauge cord on your CD player for example.
And if the wiring in your house and coming from the electric company are a smaller gauge or lesser quality than your anaconda power cord then... you get my point?
@@R.Curtis Yes, it's sounds counter intuitive but if you delve inside some powerful amps you will find busbars of such dimensions they dwarf the gauge of some cables. In my experience thicker gauge wires were better able to release the expression of my 200 watt amps. In other words, the amp sounded like it was being shackled when connected with smaller gauge cable. I used my credit card to borrow many well regarded cables for assessment and invited people with interesting cables over for evenings that focused purely on what each cable brought to the party. One evening we had power cords from Gryphon, Nordost, Cardas, Shunyata, JPS Labs, VooDoo cables and one home made cable that was sheathed in cling wrap, not compliant with electrical standards at all but it was tremendously musical.
There are so many cable brands out there. How do you choose what brand to go with? Do you mix and match cable brands or does your whole system have the same brand cabling? Thanks jay.
I use the supplied power chords on every component. The noise floor is mega quiet. It's the components that effect that, not power cables. If cheap power cables can provide a dead silent noise floor, the expensive ones are simply snake oil. How on earth can a power cord improve soundstage? It's simply not possible as that is determined only by the components. The more you spend on components, the better those elements become. Cables cannot affect those elements in any way. Even speaker cables have their limitations and most will only hear very negligible differences. They can talk about skin effect, dialectrics, air insulation and colour them purple and make potential buyers believe that, but it's the listening that ultimately counts. I too have kit in that range, many do. I've gone down those roads. Buy the best kit you can afford and use decent cheap, thick cables. Don't waste money on things that will have no benefit. Of course manufacturers and expensive cable dealers will say I'm talking bs. Let them.
It looks like you potentially have a pair of Vanta speaker cables up for sale on Audiogon. Is that true? Do you have two pair or have you decided to experiment with other speaker cables with your Boulder/S7 setup?
After I watched this video, looked up the Gryphon cables on Audiogon as a next upgrade as I’m currently running Monster cable with my Liutos and LK280. But still too expensive for me.. Will look for more budget friendly cables..
I agree with the fact that speaker cable is the most important, but it doesn't mean power cords is not important. You only need one pair of sc or two if you biwire. Power cords on the other hands often need more than a few. So value to effect ratio is the highest with speaker cord.
jay. great video. re ethernet have you tried any switches? your system is so hi end you may not need them but just wondering...ethenet cables can make a big difference ...depending on what you are connecting with them...
Jay, this is one of the most valuable videos you have made, and I have watched a lot of your videos. I have saved it for my future reference. Thanks much!
I love your videos, thanks for sharing your experiences. Although I have a huge doubt about the impact of the cables after making several unsuccessful attempts. I want to change my DIY audio server (under Roon). I have hesitations between Aurender N30sa and Taiko sgm extreme. I just saw that you have both audio servers. Could you tell me which one you think is better in terms of SQ? Congratulations again for your videos, continue your work which fascinates us.
Jay, at the beginning of the video near the the 2:15 mark, you say that your system is using the StromTank to power your system. In another video, you say that when the StromTank is used, that you don’t need expensive power cables. This might explain why you are seeing speaker cables as more important than power cables.
Someone made a good point i never thought about, y'all have these expensive cables but the wires inside the speaker themselves aren't that expensive wire, that's literally tge bottle neck being talked about but somehow they missed that part
I believe in ' one or two step up ' from often still recommended. 16 ga zip chord... the 12 ga 'pure copper' in Monsters original for example. thou I wonder if the plastic tube is anything except advertising.... of course my entire audio system cost less than $4000. seems very very decent to me.
I would argue: 1. Power Cables first 2. Dedicated circuit breaker and good inwall cable and inwall plug (this really activates the benefits of everything else working more efficiently) 3. Speaker cables 4. XLR or RCA 5. Coax or USB/AES 6. Getting a CAT 7/8 standard ethernet cable Because even though the speaker cable is maybe the most influencial cable in the system, it is usually also the most expensive one and there aren't a lot on the market that are really good unless you typically use 5-15k USD, and that will prevent a lot of users in simply doing anything cable related in their system. Whereas if you go for power cables, you can gradually get some really good ones that you make yourself for only 1k USD per cable including the plugs that is really good quality, and that will give the end user a lot of wins that they can build on so they don't quit, so they maybe every second month can buy a new one and not get stuck in their journey, so they finally can afford a proper speaker cable that they then also will believe more in. But yeah I still agree with Jay that the speaker cable is the most influencial cable. This is just IMO a more bulletproof plan that makes sure that the sound keeps on evolving on small gradual/financial steps.
For me I have found the power cables have made the biggest difference. You don't need to spend $1,000 on a single cable, just get some FP-3TS20 and make up your own. There comes a point where you are just paying someone more markup, not getting a better product. Agree with the rest of the list. Way too often people ignore the power in the house wiring. Don't need to go insane, but definitely upgrade from a standard wire job.
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So, are you guys trying to sell us on the idea that the power cable from the wall-plug must cost more than the wiring throughout the entire house, correct?
Jay I really like your new preamp I think they bring timber and natural to your system like MSB DAC . Now what I really really want to see in your channel is comparison between your Taiko extreme local file and Vinyl ...... of course with your Magico S7 . I really like your speaker wilson audio & Magico s7 they bring the best for your system .
Think you are being a bit generic in your advice. I think it depends on the power supply unit in the device as to which devices are going to respond best to power cables. My source seems to benefit least from a power cable upgrade.
Someone with multi dollar XLR cables probably won't use a lamp cord speaker cable either. In the end everything matters, super good speaker cable will eventually let you hear better, if you use a budget digital cable in the beginning, your chain is already broken at the source, and can no longer be repaired, not even with transparent Opus Jay!
It depends on the position ... If connecting ethernet to a DAC, as important as usb cable . I'm using ethernet port on a Soulution DAC and ethernet cable makes a Hugh difference. From my experience, Shunyata Omega is the best.
While I totally get what you're saying I am a disabled veteran and the best speakers cables I could afford I think we're like $50 for two. Any recommendations on the best pair of speaker cables I can get for about $50 please? Thanks
I would recommend 94744 Soundsational 14/4 AWG speaker cable by Coleman Cable / Southwire. It needs to be wired (terminated) in a star-quad configuration. Cable is made in different colors.
When streaming, the content travels a long way along hundreds of cables and gear you don't control or even know. Spending a lot on a network cable is like upgrading your driveway for a smooth ride on a transcontinental journey home. But, the last 50 yards do feel good.
Good topic and true. Cables important in the chain and has a big role, but first thing you have to do is room treatment, it is much cheaper than high end cables and any other hiend tweaks. Ethernet cables makes huge difference as any other cables. But you need a very good network. Switchs, lan filters, galvanic isolations, 10Mhz clock etc to play digital files with minimum jitter. If you have this kind of network system than you can hear the difference very easily. If you are streaming you have to have good network...
Mr. Jay, firstly - thank you for the courage to stand up against what is the common and most perpetuated philosophies in the audio realm about the importance of cabling. Secondly, your assessment about the importance of speaker cable makes all the sense to me in the world. However, many in the audio realm, including some of the gurus, would say power cables make the most difference. I recognize that you have those state of the art pieces of sonic jewelry in the way of the StromTank offerings in your system. Do you think your assessment is based on the drastic sonic difference that the StromTanks offer, or do you think you'd draw the same conclusion in the absence of those spectacular StromTank Power units?
Ringling Bros and Barnum and Bailey made a living from taking cash from what people perceived as real. As the old saying goes " A fool and his money are soon parted". The most delicate signal is through the IC, speaker cable just needs correct size for current going through and solid connections at either end.
All in All a Very Accurate Assessment of the Pecking Order of Cables! The only other Addition to this Application would be up to the Audio Industry to Improve Fiber Optic Connections to Broadcast Quality Connectors that would completely Eliminate the need for Shielding from RFI/EMI! Great Presentation Jay!
Great first part of the video, and totally agree on speaker cables and power. Totally wrong on USB cables. Even the highest end front end manufacturers--dCS and MSB--do not recommend them.
I put cheap speaker cables on my system and they sounded miserable I do use expensive cable I was just doing a comparison, if you want and serious you need to spend money but what you get back is just heavily.
Jay, this totally jives with my pecking order on cables as well. Also, I recently tried an Avanti Audio Vivace Ethernet cable between Server and Streamer and was pleasantly surprised at the difference and improvements, after trying many. This one stays. Highly recommend.
In earlier vids you have explored cables extensively. In my recollection mainly power chords whereas common knowledge suggests interconnects are the first priority for impact on sound. Speaker cables are another major influence. And then power chords. Let me listen to your discussion shortly and see if we are aligned… as you would say, stay tuned.
Ok for you, speaker cables as endpoint cables are priority one. I can’t argue based on logic. Typically in a well established system with good cables across the cable chain… each upgrade makes a difference provided the upstream cables are up to showing the difference. My XLR silver Paradigm were compared with Chord reference XLR and beat it hands down. Again you could hear the difference because the upstream cables and system could produce the differences.
Good video. I wanted to give a tip to those who have tube pre-amps. I recently changed out my Prima Luna tubes that came with it for a mix of more vintage tubes from the 1950's and 1960's and up. To replace 8 tubes was about 500 dollars as these tubes have more limited stock. The sound difference was incredible about a 25% difference. Something for those that want a big bang for the buck difference to consider. I have about 20 hours into the tubes so as they roll over 100 hours of burn in time should get a little smoother and sweeter.
Jay, great post as always. But you never mention the quality of the AC line current. If current at the AC terminal is not up to snuff, all else is a waste of time. So seems like your video would have said something about this initial power link in any system.
There is only so much they can do with cables. Do some sound better than others? yes. Do some really cheap ones sound almost as good as the ones that cost in the thousands? Yes. Try Miccah 14 gauge pure copper speaker wires. They are $40 for the pair and sound better than $1,100 Nordic Blues. The Monosaudio power chord really improves sound at a decent price too.
Jay the real reason your system sounds the best it has ever sounded is because……..drumroll…….most of your components now match in the same beautiful bare aluminum finish. J/K
Great video. I've had good experiences with inexpensive triple shielded cat8 cables on Amazon. There's better, but you pay a lot for very little difference.
Lol, the truth about high end cables is that the manufacturers are engineering them to use as tone controls. How else can they make their cable "stand out" from other cables, when listening to systems through them? Many of them even use various gizmos to achieve a particular sound signature.
Very impressive Jay. You add credibility when you give suggestions because of such a transparent system. I trust that you've heard differences. Thank you.
I remember buying power cords and noticing better sound, more detail primarily, when I placed them on the preamp and power amps first. Putting them on sources didn't give the same effect. When I put a Transparent HPPC on my preamp in place of a Wireworld Electra my first response was, "whoa!" Then I replaced that with a Premium, and more details emerged. Differences with interconnects were quite subtle by comparison. This is from someone whose system isn't on the level yours is. When I replaced Kimber Hero with Transparent Plus, there was a bit more smoothness on the top end, but that was it; they were otherwise about the same, and going from Plus to Super didn't make much of a difference either. It may be that those power cords placed further down the chain opened up what the interconnects were passing along but couldn't themselves reproduce/resolve.
Every cable is important think of it this way a chain is only as strong as the last link hifi is no different however I do agree with your ethernet I use dee vee cat 7 and it works fine playing with the idea of a network switch from English electrical chord company owned who I use throughout my system 😀 the epic range I will go to the signature series as after upgrades pushes my system well above the 10% range 😀
Stupid question after listening to many of these type of videos! Does anyone have data on all these claims, or is it all opinion? If there is noise indeed, then I would expect that there is a spectrograph showing it
I think Jay needs to check out ASR - The definitive test of the GR Research power cable-B24 revealed absolutely no fidelity gain from this high end product. No evidence to support Jay's claims - not even a blind test Give us a video of a controlled blind test Jay please.
There's no difference, there are literally cheap wires connecting the speaker internally so overspending makes no sense unless you switch those cables too since that's literally what a bottle neck would be if true
Jay, I have to build you a couple of SAT, Super Analog Transcenders. When I'm ready to release the Technology, they are add ons. Great presentation by the way!
I'm watching him shaking those speaker cables next to those very expensive amps and I'm thinking please don't accidentally make contact and scratch the finish
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Hi Jay , I have a pair of Dynaudio Contour 20 connected to a Parasound Halo A 21+ , can you recommend me which cable to buy for this combination?? Thanks!!
@@altchavez wireworld platinum
Appreciate your video, but there are a couple of things that I have to point out. I would disagree with. First, it’s based on your opinion to some extent I agree that you do need clean power in regards of your gear, so you have no distortions speaker. Cable counts to some extent. My biggest thing is with this particular video as you don’t show the science like some other channels and videos that argue the wiring point obviously, personal opinion is very subjective in the realm of audio but if you’re going to make a opinion/factual debate video to instill knowledge I think it’s important to show the science not just the opinion meaning charts meaning comparisons between wires. Are there really legitimate results that justify the ridiculous prices of these wires?
@@stevenoconnor5693he’s trying to explain his journey with his own gear and environment. I don’t think we can all just bluntly trust the spec sheet or measurements, he knows his system, his room and everything else, probably has spent double or triple of what is inside that room just trying back and forth.
I have to agree with him on the speaker cable, it was the first thing I changed on my very humble system (honestly, Yamaha A-S501, monitor audio bronze 2), everything stock - no fancy cables, first time I spent money was to replace the copper speaker cables for van den Hul “the Clearwater” and it was immediately different sounding. The subjective part is if it was better or worse sounding… but it sounder different.
2 years later a lot has changed on my gear and I’m currently changing the power cables and the main sockets and looking for noise leaks … it’s all a hobby, enjoy the best you can.
Btw, I don’t know his system personally but I bet the noisiest thing he has in the system is that USB cable.
nice
1) The importance of speaker cables cannot be denied. However, there is no need to waste your money on over-priced cables.
2) Speak about expensive power cables all you want but, if you are not talking about the copper wiring in your walls and the electrical distribution wiring and transformers in your neighborhood then your are full of it.
2) All that stuff comes before your power conditioner, so it doesn't matter.
So the short power cable fixes all the issues that the non-audiophile wiring from the power station right up to the power outlet in your wall caused? Or maybe there is no there there and any old power cable will do, provided your electronics have implemented good filtering?
If only we had a methodology to answer questions like that, say something where we provide listeners with two options to compare without them knowing what they are listening to. And then repeat the test until we get a statistically significant result. Maybe we could call it a "blind test". Oh, wait, these have been done, and they confirm what the measurements and the experts who have studied electronic engineering tell us: power cables do not make any fucking difference!
But then you are a "cable believer", and belief is impervious to facts.
I'm expecting either the power cable to the source or the interconnect from the source to the pre-amplifier would be the #1 most important cable.
This is how an electrical engineer who has spent countless millions of dollars of other peoples money on more kinds of wire and cable than most people know exists sees cable in electrical systems. I'm not here to argue or debate. I know you guys would fight me to your last dying breath to prove me wrong but my knowledge comes from engineering textbooks and people who make the stuff, not from audiophiles or those who manufacture products for audiophiles.
This is how we mathematically model cables.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegrapher%27s_equations
If you scroll down a little you will see what we call the equivalent lumped sum parameters of a distributed parameter filter network. What does that mean? It means that the properties of cables depends on among other things on their length. So if you don't know the length, you can't do any calculations. Engineers have relied on this model for nearly 150 years because it works well. But that is not all you need to know. Here's how this model is used. The actual method starts at around 5:42 but you might want to go back slightly to see where the presenter got the source information from.
ruclips.net/video/O1LQ6r4n4mk/видео.html
The middle section is the model of the cable. You can see Gdx is missing. Why? Because for all practical intents and purposes in this problem and any other problems related to audio it is virtually zero and so can be ignored.
On the left you can see a model of the source. This model comes from Thevenin's Theorem. This is the voltage model. There is a corresponding alternative current model called Norton's Theorem. They will give identical mathematical results.
On the right side is the impedance of the load which in this case is the input stage of a phono preamplifier.
If the source impedance was zero and the load impedance was infinite it wouldn't matter what the wire was as long as it was not an open or short circuit. It would have no effect. Then why don't manufacturers use a small class AB solid state output stage that has an output impedance of nearly zero instead of a cathode follower or emitter follower stage as was traditional from the days when tubes had an input impedance, so high the cable hardly mattered? Don't ask me, ask them. So a transistor amplifier might have an input impedance of 20,000 ohms or less, even as low as 5000 ohms while the output stage of much equipment is as high as 600 ohms or more. Now the cable really does matter. What's more in a worst case the input of the next stage can actually load down the output of the prior stages due to an inadequate amplifier. See John Atkinson's measurements of some Nagra preamplifiers costing $10,000 or more. Tubes usually have an input impedance of at least 100,000 ohms. This is why some manufacturers use them for the input stages of their equipment even though the rest of the circuit is solid state. This model is universally used for pretty much all circuits.
As you can see, the parameters affect the frequency response of the circuit. There are many ways to alter it. IMO changing cables is the worst way. They cannot be adjusted and unless you can perform these mathematical computations you have only trial and error. Trial and error is NOT engineering, it is tinkering which is what I relegate all of the "experts" in this industry as, tinkerers. They design what they like and hope others will like it too even though they will be used under entirely different conditions.
So how did this man improve the FR of the cartridge with the high frequency peak? Here's how and it didn't involve using different cables.
ruclips.net/video/oUGWnGwI4_o/видео.html
Electrical engineers are taught a concept called G(j*omega) spoken as G of j omega. What does it mean? G is gain. j is the symbol electrical engineers use for the square root of minus one. Why when the rest of the world uses i? Probably because they already used i for current. Why didn't they use a for amperes or c for current instead? Unfortunately they all died a long time ago so we can't ask them. If you think that's bad this is much more confusing and worse. They performed circuit calculations before they knew current flow was the result of negative particles called electrons. They thought it flowed from positive to negative. They had a 50/50 chance of being right. Unfortunately they got it wrong and so now all of the calculations are done with what is called "conventional current" which is backwards from the way current really flows. Omega is pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter times the frequency. So it is gain as a function of frequency.
So what is my conclusion? It's not my money and I have no dog in this fight so I couldn't care less what you believe. The best way to adjust the overall frequency response of a sound system is by use of an equalizer. Personally I like graphic equalizers with linear sliders myself. Others prefer parametric equalizers. You can use both in series. They are inexpensive, adjustable, and introduce no noise, hum, or non linear distortion. But what about phase? Ha, tyros talk so much about phase. The electrical signal passes through what is called a zero phase system (the term didn't exist when I studied it in school.) What this means is that there is a direct correlation between the amplitude frequency response and the phase frequency response. If you know either, you can calculate the other. So if you manufacture or sell audiophile cables the first thing you have to do is convince your market that equalizers are the devil's work. And in a sense they are. If you don't have the skill to use this powerful tool you can do far more harm than good.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast yep
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast Okay I confess. We electrical engineers know absolutely nothing. We've been faking it all these decades. We had a lot of people fooled but not audiophiles. You guys are just too smart for us. I told you I wasn't going to argue.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast I didn't say there was no difference. You assumed I was a denyer. Try reading my post again. If there is a difference I explained why and gave you an infinitely better solution to get the same results. BTW, the best audible test for wire is not A versus B but A versus A shunted. I will say it a different way. Using wire as a control element stinks as an engineering solution to a problem. Expensive, unpredictable, unadjustable, it has every disadvantage and no advantage. It's the worst possible choice.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast My opinions are based on four of the most grueling years of mental work in my life, my amazing education in engineering and science and nearly 50 years of having practically every wire peddler in America in my office at one time or another.
I've had one hell of a career. My last job 5 years ago was as the chief electrical engineer at Bell Labs in Murray Hill NJ. Too bad the current owner Nokia ran out of money for facilities work or I'd still be there. On one of my last projects I was trying to figure out how to test the remaining life expectancy of all of the 15,000 volt feeder cables that would have to be replaced. I read half a dozen technical papers, contacted 12 sources including the Department of Energy, manufacturers of this type of wire, utilities, manufacturers of test equipment, contractors who specialize in doing this work, consultants, and others. At the end I had 18 different opinions. With nearly 60 double ended substations on that site each with duplex switching at both ends there were thousands of miles of 15 KV cable. A cable failure could ruin data from an experiment that ran for months. The total replacement cost would ultimately be in the tens of millions of dollars and take years. The problem was to find the ones that had the shortest life expectancy and replace them first. It's hard to believe how much there is to know about 15 kv cables right down to the molecular and physical changes in the insulation. They were all in underground conduits and manholes that had been flooded out with every rainstorm for over 30 years since their last replacement. This is just one of countless jobs I did that involved knowledge about wire.
Now where did you get your information about wire from?
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast That is obvious. I tried my best to give you the benefit of 140 years of knowledge about wire but as they say you can bring a horse to water but...
Do the high, high end equipment likein your system come with the same black, generic power cords as lesser components?
After about 30 years into high end audio; I've learned not to assign any hierarchy to cable importance because it is system dependent and it varies from system to system. That each is equally important is closer to reality. Synergy between the cables (and cables to components/speakers) is more important than each cable alone. Yes sometimes the F-in expensive speaker cable is the missing integral piece of the puzzle. It can also be the #4 usb cable. Sometimes what is required for balance/musicality is not the $10k fancy power cord but the stock one - the cheap ass one that came with the component. In audio - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I do agree that ethernet cables are not as important as the other cables especially when one already has a Qnet. However I do have a valhalla2 ethernet cable to play with :D
😎
As long as you're getting the results you want, you're doing it the right way.
"the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" Wholeheartdely agree.
Proper system building( (inc cables) takes diligence and experience. It is like a form of art.
In the signal path speaker cables are last. If great speaker cables receive a signal that has been compromised, (possibly by interconnects) your speaker cables and speakers can't restore what was lost. If you want to get the best possible performance from an audio system and have any critical thinking skills you will build from the beginning to ensure that the integrity of your signal is as high as possible before it gets to the speaker cables...not ranking which cables do the most to change the sound of a system, just pointing out some factual stuff that quite a few audiophiles ignore.
Hmm.
Well if you go that way, you can even think even further. Speakers cable actualy transfer the most amplified signal, and most important the longuest cable of all.It is lot easier to ensure the integrity of signal on 50cm cable than 3meters, that why i think speakers cable are the most important too
@@davenull9037, If you go that way, you may be overestimating the role cable length plays in preserving signal integrity. There are lots of great sounding monoblock systems w/ interconnects that are longer than the speaker cables. If you compared a 3m pair of Audioquest RCA Dragon interconnects ($18.500) w/ let's say a 1m pair of Audioquest RCA Water interconnects ($650) in a system with superb source components, would you expect the shorter run to sound better? Of course building the best system you can is generally not simply a matter of guessing which cable run is the MVP, (have to agree w/ Hansen Dy on this). The bottom line is every part of the system has a specific job and the best speaker cable in the world cannot improve the quality of the signal it receives.
EXACTLY!
In other words crap in crap out 😎
This is a very good video.
This type of findings you can only find after days, weeks, months of experimenting.
This is what a LAB should be doing. Thanks Jay.
Thanks
@@jaysaudiolab These types of findings? All of this is hearsay until we see the scientific data (the comparable measurements) that a "Laboratory" provides.
@@LLL-us9lw I'm the testing lab. Don't worry 😂
@@jaysaudiolab hey Jay he wants you to put your lab coat on and glasses. 😅🤣😂
In the grand scheme of things - can any cable make as much a difference as changing a MKP capacitor or adding a bypass capacitor or even changing the whole amp or source?
Lol you're giving things too much thought.
Huh lol.
What are your thoughts on the power cable for the power conditioner?
I'm glad I watched this video. I am just now in the process of Looking for wire for a brand new system I'm having made?. I'm having a Black Ice F35 intigrated amp, custom factory modified. Current speakers are Klipsch RP-600 mkll. Now i'm looking for wire. I will now be starting with speaker wires, Then power up cords. Then I'll finally do my inner connects In that order. What a great informational video.... Thanks.!
Nice video, Jay. So glad that you're here for us.
Thanks Ken!!!
hi, what speaker and power cable would you recommend for the gryphon diablo 300 system? and which speakers would you recommend for this amplifier? I am deciding between focal scala utopia evo and gryphon pantheon.
thanks
Milan
I love your way of stating buying in steps and your batting order is helpful. Other high enders on RUclips: one says RCA interconnects and the other says speaker wires make the biggest difference, but there is one who swears $50 Blue Jean speaker wire is good enough on even his $15k bookshelf speakers. I have also heard that power cords make the smallest change. I bought Odin II XLRs and a USB cable. I was sold that Nordost is onto something and am waiting on a power cord and interconnects to arrive. Thx for the most informative wire video out. Good luck with your biz taking off: fan for life here!
Thanks Chris
What about IC. Thats what you are getting your music traveling from source to your amp.
Interesting video. I mostly agree, except I find differences among similar level speaker cables are subtler than power cords or interconnects. I understand you ranked the cables in importance when compared to stock cords, but the ranking would be the same when upgrading from an already good cable to a better one, in terms of impact?
Keep up the good work and when you say source is a music server a source then place power cable there first?
Thanks 👍
Yes, a source is referring to the source of the audio signal. CD player, PC via USB, turntable, etc.
Do u think it will change the character of your speaker cables when u change other cables in your system?
Most of my cables are 10+ years old. Should I be concerned about advancing technology, or are well-engineered, good sounding cables from 10 years ago still relevant? Thank you for this very informative video!
Thanks man
If you have the same cables in your system for over 10 years, and have been happy with the results, I would think long and hard before I replaced them with something else. Some companies come out with new stuff all the time and they kind of make you feel like you need to upgrade. But not all of them. Kimber is probably the best example. He goes by the do it right the first time philosophy. Kimber has cables in production for over 30 years, and they are still selling well today. AQ is number one, and Kimber is probably 2 or 3.
Just to be clear, I'm not telling you do anything either way. Only you know your system and where you went to take it. I think its great you've been happy with the same product for so long.
Hey Jay, thanks for the video! Really quick, what is that round thing on top of the 3010? Thanks!
Damper
@@jaysaudiolab which model and brand? What do you think about those extra products ?
Friend of mine used viborg gold plated c15 iec connector for few years. Then changed the iec connector to rhodium plated and synergy changed balance also seperation & sound quality immediately changed. The gold plating on iec it seems to masks lots of fine details. Now again going to chang to pure solid silver (red carbon fibre) viborg iec c15. The iec connector alone can make a big difference in sound quality. Won't use gold plated iec again. Better using rhodium or silver for better separation and balance. Even the iec connector can make a big difference let alone the cable
You're right, rhodium plugs are very neutral sounding, gold is warmer, I have no experience with silver AC plugs. Try Furutech AC plugs with rhodium if You can. The Neotech ones (with rhodium) are less competent, they cut the ambience, strange.
To me speaker cables are not the last cables where the electricity runs through. The last cables are after the terminals of your speaker namely inside your speaker ?
Have you ever tried kimber 4tc or 8tc ? If yes, hows they sound?
IMHO and from my experience: first are power cable for the digital source and interconnect from CD-DAC to preamp; second speaker cable; third power cable for preamp; the others are important but a bit less. It's obvious that big solid state power amps need a thick power cable, minimum 14 awg conductors. I noted that the AC connectors of the power cords have a lot of influence on the sound.
I agree Jay, speaker cables carry the last result. Powercords to me are last. As long as you are using a good gauge wire with pure copper, the gear will not starve for power.
Understood
Jay, thanks for all the great information. I think you have the best system that I have ever seen and I'm just curious about why you don't use a really great cd player into your dac. Wouldn't that be higher quality than streaming?
No!
Great video! I like your take on things. Main question I have is what do you do for a living?? How are you able to afford such an amazing set up??
Personal question
I just purchased a new stereo system. Connected everything up and noticed one speaker sounded a little flat and was a little lower in volume. I looked at the speaker cables and found they were directional. The cable for the speaker that sounded flat was backwards. I switched it so it was in correct direction. Now this speaker sounds the same as the other speaker. I never thought it would make a difference.
Funny cause in actual testing of power cords they produce NOTHING in the audible range. In fact even outside the audible range a factory molded cord does EXACTLY what a fancy looking cord does. One function get whatever is at the source to the equipment. The biggest placebo in audio. Sorry for being so blunt but facts are facts.
I have pretty much followed this exact path, (new speaker cables, all upgraded power cords, now the question is when improving your interconnects do you start at the source or between the pre amp and amp first? (If you were to only be able to do one at at time?)
Source to preamp.
On my opinion I don't think it makes sense to rank cables importance in a full performing system. They are all equally important since a system will always perform at the level of the weakest link. Nevertheless, it makes sense to prioritise the cables purchase sequence starting by Speaker Cables and Power Cables
Regarding "Digital Music Sources" - it seems that nearly all "modern run of the mill" music is too loud / clipped? I have also found that some flacs, e.g.: "Sia's Best Of", seem "overdriven" too.
Jay? Did you ever compare XLR to RCA?
The conclusion of speaker cables first is valid only if you have appropriate power cords for each type of component. Powerful amps require larger gauge power cords and that same larger gauge power cord may not perform as well as a smaller gauge cord on your CD player for example.
And if the wiring in your house and coming from the electric company are a smaller gauge or lesser quality than your anaconda power cord then... you get my point?
@@R.Curtis Yes, it's sounds counter intuitive but if you delve inside some powerful amps you will find busbars of such dimensions they dwarf the gauge of some cables. In my experience thicker gauge wires were better able to release the expression of my 200 watt amps. In other words, the amp sounded like it was being shackled when connected with smaller gauge cable. I used my credit card to borrow many well regarded cables for assessment and invited people with interesting cables over for evenings that focused purely on what each cable brought to the party. One evening we had power cords from Gryphon, Nordost, Cardas, Shunyata, JPS Labs, VooDoo cables and one home made cable that was sheathed in cling wrap, not compliant with electrical standards at all but it was tremendously musical.
There are so many cable brands out there. How do you choose what brand to go with?
Do you mix and match cable brands or does your whole system have the same brand cabling? Thanks jay.
You choose cables by talking to folks who have done it before you
I use the supplied power chords on every component. The noise floor is mega quiet. It's the components that effect that, not power cables. If cheap power cables can provide a dead silent noise floor, the expensive ones are simply snake oil. How on earth can a power cord improve soundstage? It's simply not possible as that is determined only by the components. The more you spend on components, the better those elements become. Cables cannot affect those elements in any way. Even speaker cables have their limitations and most will only hear very negligible differences. They can talk about skin effect, dialectrics, air insulation and colour them purple and make potential buyers believe that, but it's the listening that ultimately counts. I too have kit in that range, many do. I've gone down those roads. Buy the best kit you can afford and use decent cheap, thick cables. Don't waste money on things that will have no benefit. Of course manufacturers and expensive cable dealers will say I'm talking bs. Let them.
It looks like you potentially have a pair of Vanta speaker cables up for sale on Audiogon. Is that true? Do you have two pair or have you decided to experiment with other speaker cables with your Boulder/S7 setup?
After I watched this video, looked up the Gryphon cables on Audiogon as a next upgrade as I’m currently running Monster cable with my Liutos and LK280. But still too expensive for me.. Will look for more budget friendly cables..
@@jeffandich3894 cool.
I agree with the fact that speaker cable is the most important, but it doesn't mean power cords is not important. You only need one pair of sc or two if you biwire. Power cords on the other hands often need more than a few. So value to effect ratio is the highest with speaker cord.
Jay, what bass traps are those in the corner? Thanks for another great video
GIK acoustics but my room will be transforming soon
jay. great video. re ethernet have you tried any switches? your system is so hi end you may not need them but just wondering...ethenet cables can make a big difference ...depending on what you are connecting with them...
Jay, this is one of the most valuable videos you have made, and I have watched a lot of your videos. I have saved it for my future reference. Thanks much!
Awesome 👍
I love your videos, thanks for sharing your experiences.
Although I have a huge doubt about the impact of the cables after making several unsuccessful attempts.
I want to change my DIY audio server (under Roon). I have hesitations between Aurender N30sa and Taiko sgm extreme. I just saw that you have both audio servers. Could you tell me which one you think is better in terms of SQ?
Congratulations again for your videos, continue your work which fascinates us.
Consider my consultation service for that type of question please .
@@jaysaudiolab
Ok, I will use the form on your website to contact you.
I'm sorry Jay, but you don't have "Tube Connectors" on the back of those speakers!! So you not getting the best resolution.. 😁😉
Jay, at the beginning of the video near the the 2:15 mark, you say that your system is using the StromTank to power your system. In another video, you say that when the StromTank is used, that you don’t need expensive power cables. This might explain why you are seeing speaker cables as more important than power cables.
Someone made a good point i never thought about, y'all have these expensive cables but the wires inside the speaker themselves aren't that expensive wire, that's literally tge bottle neck being talked about but somehow they missed that part
I believe in ' one or two step up ' from often still recommended. 16 ga zip chord... the 12 ga 'pure copper' in Monsters original for example. thou I wonder if the plastic tube is anything except advertising.... of course my entire audio system cost less than $4000. seems very very decent to me.
I'm right there with you. My system is more like 25k + and I still rock at most 9 gauge ofc copper cables for the front three.
@@theoracleprodigy nothing wrong with that Sandy
I would argue:
1. Power Cables first
2. Dedicated circuit breaker and good inwall cable and inwall plug (this really activates the benefits of everything else working more efficiently)
3. Speaker cables
4. XLR or RCA
5. Coax or USB/AES
6. Getting a CAT 7/8 standard ethernet cable
Because even though the speaker cable is maybe the most influencial cable in the system, it is usually also the most expensive one and there aren't a lot on the market that are really good unless you typically use 5-15k USD, and that will prevent a lot of users in simply doing anything cable related in their system.
Whereas if you go for power cables, you can gradually get some really good ones that you make yourself for only 1k USD per cable including the plugs that is really good quality, and that will give the end user a lot of wins that they can build on so they don't quit, so they maybe every second month can buy a new one and not get stuck in their journey, so they finally can afford a proper speaker cable that they then also will believe more in. But yeah I still agree with Jay that the speaker cable is the most influencial cable. This is just IMO a more bulletproof plan that makes sure that the sound keeps on evolving on small gradual/financial steps.
Can't argue
1. Ac cord
2. In wall ac plug etc.
3. XLR interconnects
4. Speaker cables
and the rest.
I have a hi end Home Theatre system.
For me I have found the power cables have made the biggest difference. You don't need to spend $1,000 on a single cable, just get some FP-3TS20 and make up your own. There comes a point where you are just paying someone more markup, not getting a better product. Agree with the rest of the list. Way too often people ignore the power in the house wiring. Don't need to go insane, but definitely upgrade from a standard wire job.
So, are you guys trying to sell us on the idea that the power cable from the wall-plug must cost more than the wiring throughout the entire house, correct?
Jay I really like your new preamp I think they bring timber and natural to your system like MSB DAC .
Now what I really really want to see in your channel is comparison between your Taiko extreme local file and Vinyl ...... of course with your Magico S7 . I really like your speaker wilson audio & Magico s7 they bring the best for your system .
Or any comments in regards to the Plating? Rhodium vs Silver vs Gold?
Not really
Think you are being a bit generic in your advice. I think it depends on the power supply unit in the device as to which devices are going to respond best to power cables. My source seems to benefit least from a power cable upgrade.
Cool
Why would such high end, expensive electronics not work optimally with the supplied power cable?
👍👍
I've asked and only boulder electronics have sounded phenomenal with stock powercords
What are your thioughts on G.R. research cables ?
Don't have any
@@jaysaudiolab Please get back to me if you do review any of there cables,Thanks!
Someone with multi dollar XLR cables probably won't use a lamp cord speaker cable either. In the end everything matters, super good speaker cable will eventually let you hear better, if you use a budget digital cable in the beginning, your chain is already broken at the source, and can no longer be repaired, not even with transparent Opus Jay!
It depends on the position ... If connecting ethernet to a DAC, as important as usb cable . I'm using ethernet port on a Soulution DAC and ethernet cable makes a Hugh difference. From my experience, Shunyata Omega is the best.
Cool
While I totally get what you're saying I am a disabled veteran and the best speakers cables I could afford I think we're like $50 for two. Any recommendations on the best pair of speaker cables I can get for about $50 please? Thanks
I would recommend 94744 Soundsational 14/4 AWG speaker cable by Coleman Cable / Southwire. It needs to be wired (terminated) in a star-quad configuration. Cable is made in different colors.
When streaming, the content travels a long way along hundreds of cables and gear you don't control or even know. Spending a lot on a network cable is like upgrading your driveway for a smooth ride on a transcontinental journey home. But, the last 50 yards do feel good.
your MSB DAC negates the importance of digital cables. It matters more to budget systems.
I suppose
As far as power cords go, shouldnt you start with the power conditioner?
Yes but i own a Stromtank and powers don't matter
Great video Jay, have a wonderful weekend
You too
This is one of your best videos. Thank you. Subscribed.
Good topic and true. Cables important in the chain and has a big role, but first thing you have to do is room treatment, it is much cheaper than high end cables and any other hiend tweaks. Ethernet cables makes huge difference as any other cables. But you need a very good network. Switchs, lan filters, galvanic isolations, 10Mhz clock etc to play digital files with minimum jitter. If you have this kind of network system than you can hear the difference very easily. If you are streaming you have to have good network...
I have an excellent network set up...see my past videos
Btw is this your listening room when you want to enjoy some good music?
Are those speaker cables occ copper?
Copper
I agree with the order that Jay has put the importance of these cables in. l essentially found the same improvements in the same order.
Awesome 👍
Mr. Jay, firstly - thank you for the courage to stand up against what is the common and most perpetuated philosophies in the audio realm about the importance of cabling. Secondly, your assessment about the importance of speaker cable makes all the sense to me in the world. However, many in the audio realm, including some of the gurus, would say power cables make the most difference. I recognize that you have those state of the art pieces of sonic jewelry in the way of the StromTank offerings in your system. Do you think your assessment is based on the drastic sonic difference that the StromTanks offer, or do you think you'd draw the same conclusion in the absence of those spectacular StromTank Power units?
My findings come from the beginning of time. Way before stromtank showed up
Ringling Bros and Barnum and Bailey made a living from taking cash from what people perceived as real. As the old saying goes " A fool and his money are soon parted".
The most delicate signal is through the IC, speaker cable just needs correct size for current
going through and solid connections at either end.
All in All a Very Accurate Assessment of the Pecking Order of Cables! The only other Addition to this Application would be up to the Audio Industry to Improve Fiber Optic Connections to Broadcast Quality Connectors that would completely Eliminate the need for Shielding from RFI/EMI! Great Presentation Jay!
Thanks man
Great first part of the video, and totally agree on speaker cables and power. Totally wrong on USB cables. Even the highest end front end manufacturers--dCS and MSB--do not recommend them.
Standard usb changed to cat8 was a very huge improvement. Didnt try high end cables usb.
I put cheap speaker cables on my system and they sounded miserable I do use expensive cable I was just doing a comparison, if you want and serious you need to spend money but what you get back is just heavily.
What about swapping ethernet to optical to reduce noise? Tried that? Diminishing returns strike here for you.
Haven't tried
Jay, this totally jives with my pecking order on cables as well. Also, I recently tried an Avanti Audio Vivace Ethernet cable between Server and Streamer and was pleasantly surprised at the difference and improvements, after trying many. This one stays. Highly recommend.
Thanks Paul
In earlier vids you have explored cables extensively. In my recollection mainly power chords whereas common knowledge suggests interconnects are the first priority for impact on sound. Speaker cables are another major influence. And then power chords. Let me listen to your discussion shortly and see if we are aligned… as you would say, stay tuned.
Ok for you, speaker cables as endpoint cables are priority one. I can’t argue based on logic. Typically in a well established system with good cables across the cable chain… each upgrade makes a difference provided the upstream cables are up to showing the difference. My XLR silver Paradigm were compared with Chord reference XLR and beat it hands down. Again you could hear the difference because the upstream cables and system could produce the differences.
Good video. I wanted to give a tip to those who have tube pre-amps. I recently changed out my Prima Luna tubes that came with it for a mix of more vintage tubes from the 1950's and 1960's and up. To replace 8 tubes was about 500 dollars as these tubes have more limited stock. The sound difference was incredible about a 25% difference. Something for those that want a big bang for the buck difference to consider. I have about 20 hours into the tubes so as they roll over 100 hours of burn in time should get a little smoother and sweeter.
Awesome
Tube rolling makes a difference in sound quality
I love rolling Tubes ! I wish i could find some different Kt120s besides tungsol but i have 4 different sets of kt88s and they all sound different
Thanks for you valuable experience and suggestions Jay. Thumb up !
Jay, great post as always. But you never mention the quality of the AC line current. If current at the AC terminal is not up to snuff, all else is a waste of time. So seems like your video would have said something about this initial power link in any system.
I wasn't considering it
There is only so much they can do with cables. Do some sound better than others? yes. Do some really cheap ones sound almost as good as the ones that cost in the thousands? Yes. Try Miccah 14 gauge pure copper speaker wires. They are $40 for the pair and sound better than $1,100 Nordic Blues. The Monosaudio power chord really improves sound at a decent price too.
i recently switch to acrolink , pricy but fantastic :)
Jay the real reason your system sounds the best it has ever sounded is because……..drumroll…….most of your components now match in the same beautiful bare aluminum finish. J/K
Lol
Great video. I've had good experiences with inexpensive triple shielded cat8 cables on Amazon. There's better, but you pay a lot for very little difference.
Lol, the truth about high end cables is that the manufacturers are engineering them to use as tone controls. How else can they make their cable "stand out" from other cables, when listening to systems through them? Many of them even use various gizmos to achieve a particular sound signature.
100% , they make their $1000 cable take away things that a $100 cord wouldn’t, then the $10k cable adds those things back in. Old news
Very impressive Jay. You add credibility when you give suggestions because of such a transparent system. I trust that you've heard differences. Thank you.
Thank you
I remember buying power cords and noticing better sound, more detail primarily, when I placed them on the preamp and power amps first. Putting them on sources didn't give the same effect. When I put a Transparent HPPC on my preamp in place of a Wireworld Electra my first response was, "whoa!" Then I replaced that with a Premium, and more details emerged. Differences with interconnects were quite subtle by comparison. This is from someone whose system isn't on the level yours is. When I replaced Kimber Hero with Transparent Plus, there was a bit more smoothness on the top end, but that was it; they were otherwise about the same, and going from Plus to Super didn't make much of a difference either. It may be that those power cords placed further down the chain opened up what the interconnects were passing along but couldn't themselves reproduce/resolve.
Nice presentation. Thank you for your opinions.
Thanks
Every cable is important think of it this way a chain is only as strong as the last link hifi is no different however I do agree with your ethernet I use dee vee cat 7 and it works fine playing with the idea of a network switch from English electrical chord company owned who I use throughout my system 😀 the epic range I will go to the signature series as after upgrades pushes my system well above the 10% range 😀
Yes
Stupid question after listening to many of these type of videos! Does anyone have data on all these claims, or is it all opinion? If there is noise indeed, then I would expect that there is a spectrograph showing it
calling is like cooking, when your system reaches a certain level or flavor, the best cables can do harm as well
Thanks man! I was about to upgrade my ethernet cable from the very good Supra Cat-8 to a particular audiophile brand costing 4x more.
Nope
In my experience, Wireworld starlight ethernet cable provide wow factors in my system.(not very expensive)
I made the choice to roughly spend 20% the value of my amp and DAC. Made sense. Best, D.
I think Jay needs to check out ASR - The definitive test of the GR Research power cable-B24 revealed absolutely no fidelity gain from this high end product.
No evidence to support Jay's claims - not even a blind test
Give us a video of a controlled blind test Jay please.
Jay needs to get invited to other channels. Why don't you ask him to bring me ?
Actually, it revealed this cable is a fire hazard as well as sounding identical to a 50-cent generic one.
The only cable I have ever heard making a difference that is clearly audible is the one between my cartridge and my phono pre-amp.
BUT you also have speakers that more can tell a difference bwteewn spaker cable than most peoples speakers
There's no difference, there are literally cheap wires connecting the speaker internally so overspending makes no sense unless you switch those cables too since that's literally what a bottle neck would be if true
Jay, I have to build you a couple of SAT, Super Analog Transcenders. When I'm ready to release the Technology, they are add ons. Great presentation by the way!
Thanks 🙏
Great video! As a noob I've upgraded in the complete opposite to your recommendations.
Now you are better informed of how to do it
@@jaysaudiolab I guess some new speaker cables are coming haha
I think most important is interconnect and clean power.
Interconnects←power cables←speaker cables←digital cables
I'm watching him shaking those speaker cables next to those very expensive amps and I'm thinking please don't accidentally make contact and scratch the finish
This guy works out with audio equipment.
Yes
Hi, Jay!
Do you have any scientific data that supports your sayings or are them all subjective opinions?