IBM Model 50 486-50, Wait, what?!! Restoration

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  • Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 284

  • @vwestlife
    @vwestlife 29 дней назад +144

    IBM had to change the power switch from red to white because of a government regulation that red buttons and switches could only be used for an emergency stop/shutoff function. That's also why the red reset button on Tandy computers changed from red to white around the same time (circa 1990).

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад +37

      That's a bummer. I really liked the red switches :)

    • @tarajoe07
      @tarajoe07 29 дней назад +16

      Government ruins everything

    • @spokehedz
      @spokehedz 29 дней назад +19

      And what would a hard-power cut off switch be, but an emergency stop switch?

    • @shiroshine7227
      @shiroshine7227 29 дней назад +8

      The reason computers had a bland era was because German regulations saying computers should blend in and be "unoffensive" to the office space.

    • @mindaugasstankus5943
      @mindaugasstankus5943 29 дней назад +14

      Likely not 100% accurate and kind on BS side. Power strip have red buttons, plenty other appliances on/off switch was, are and will be red, record buttons are red. Someone took few line from multi-tome/page regulation and twisted interesting ways for some purpose and/or just was incompetent.
      Bright Red and Green usage are regulated on railways (direct sight of locomotive operator and stuff), red brick house and green pain not banded and plentiful around railways.

  • @agh8459
    @agh8459 29 дней назад +57

    Well that was a trip down memory lane LOL.
    I remember these; I worked for a company in London around 1993 that had a ton of Model 50's that they wanted upgraded to be capable of running Windows 3.1. The 286 wasn't going to cut it and they didn't want to splash out the budget for new 386 or 486 PC's... so I and my team were tasked with installing these exact CPU upgrades into their Model 50's... I personally must've installed 15-20 of them. They worked... they definitely weren't as fast as a true 486 mostly because the RAM was still running at 286 speeds, but they provided a relatively cost effective way of extending the lifespan of these Model 50's they had already and performed on par or slightly better than my PC which was a newer 55 Model 386.
    The badge was shipped with the card, and yes we were expected to remove the old badges and install the new ones. They came directly from IBM and had a 1 year warranty as I recall.

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +13

      Thanks for adding this comment - It is great to hear from someone in the computer production area, even if it wasn't directly for IBM. I believe the FRU P/N for this CPU upgrade is listed on the 50/50Z page of the "IBM PC and PS/2 Pocket Reference", and was aware of the included badge with the like-minded "System Board Upgrade" (a rebranded Reply planar) for the Model 70.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад +11

      Poor me had to cope with the original 10MHz 286 on my Model 50 running Win3.1 back in the day :D

    • @SockyNoob
      @SockyNoob 28 дней назад +4

      Amazing insight!

    • @PaulGrayUK
      @PaulGrayUK 28 дней назад +3

      Did you ever have the models with the internal slots on a riser card (Model 55 SX)? Had fun with those as if you had a heavy monitor on top of the case, it could bow and wobble the riser card with any small vibration (like somebody closing an officer door) and cause it to crash. What fun root causing that issue was. Solution - stop using the case as a monitor stand.

    • @seahorsecorral
      @seahorsecorral 27 дней назад +3

      I worked in computer retail late 80s thru early 90s. Our store was heavily into selling IBM's to banks and businesses. Besides field technician and programmer, I was database and inventory manager. We had thick catalogs of part numbers that would contain those FRU numbers. Sadly I don't have them anymore, but we definitely sold upgrades like that.

  • @IBM_Museum
    @IBM_Museum Месяц назад +30

    I have the identical CPU upgrade (and FPU assembly) in a 7541/7542 "Industrial" system that was also based on the 50Z planar - We have it documented at the 'Ardent-Tool', of course.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад +5

      Interesting. Is there more documentation about this besides the info on Ardent?

  • @mrmike1972
    @mrmike1972 7 дней назад +1

    This was the PC we used to run our restaurant POS system back when I started working there in 1999. Just without the upgrade.

  • @doctordapp
    @doctordapp 17 дней назад +3

    That machine is build like a tank.
    Also looks really good with all those pcb connectors instead of wires.
    Really a product of quality.

  • @IBM_Museum
    @IBM_Museum Месяц назад +15

    IBM included stickers with the upgrade parts - even for modifying the submodel number to the correct CPU encoding. This wasn't a factory release, but was modified later - likely at a hefty price. There's supposed to be a (delicate) PCB with PALs/GALs in the 287 FPU socket. It does bear the question of why do the upgrade rather than get the 386 or 486 level system.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      Cool, do you have any documentation about this?

    • @schubi42
      @schubi42 29 дней назад +1

      not every customer had the funds to replace tech, upgrades ran through different channels, made perfect sense in its day

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +3

      @@Epictronics1: Another limiting factor was that the IBM 386SLC, 486SLC2/486SLC3, and 486DLC2/486BL CPUs could only be used in IBM systems since that was the licensing from Intel for using the 386SX codemask to derive better performance - Hence the Intel copyright on the chip as well. IBM also had produced Intel 386DX CPUs for the Model 70 and 80 that were in the 'silver-cap' packaging during the same era. Of course that preceded later CPU battles that Intel had with competitors.

  • @tsr207
    @tsr207 28 дней назад +4

    First call on one of these was to follow an engineer who had taken every board out the Micro Channel bus. Normally you would reinstall the cards and ask the user for their back up with the driver files as the system would not run if the driver file was not re-installed. The customer did not have one - but luckily on the last day of training an IBMer had given everyone a master disk with all the adf files for every possible configuration.
    Took 15 minutes to load but it fixed it !

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 28 дней назад

      And now *every* ADF (in some cases, multiple versions of the same POS ID) is available at the 'Ardent-Tool'! - The problem now is that the diskette drives don't often work.

  • @86smoke
    @86smoke Месяц назад +34

    I absolutely adore the madness behind this PC. Someone in IBM must have said:
    - we must upgrade our 286 model 50 system to 486!
    - but boss, it is completely different architecture ..
    - GET IT DONE
    - okaaaaay

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +7

      lol. This IBM doesn't make any sense! I'm starting to think it's a prototype that wasn't intended to go into production

    • @86smoke
      @86smoke Месяц назад +9

      @@Epictronics1 Well, there are evidences that it was past prototype, like CPU board had its FRU number, case was made up to production standard, a 'model 50 486-50' badge that was obviously made using its own mold and is of good quality. Maybe it was sold on limited number of markets, like Asia only.
      The Internet seems to acknowledge this as 286 at 10 MHz as base model and 486 SLC2 as factory upgrade. It only had 1M-2M RAM options, enything more was only available through MCA memory expansions. It was also released as two floppy drive system with no HDD.
      Much respect foir IBM engineers for fitting 486 into 286 board.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад +3

      @@86smoke It has an international PSU marked "EN" (none of my other 50Zs are marked "EN"), so it's hard to tell what market it was intended for. I agree, amazing engineering to make a 486 work on a 286 board!

    • @PaulDriverPlus
      @PaulDriverPlus 29 дней назад

      It's not a real 486, but a 486slc weirdo.

    • @Lady_Zenith
      @Lady_Zenith 29 дней назад +4

      @@Epictronics1 It is not that hard but its a bad idea. The point is 286 uses 16-bit bus, so, by throwing 486 at it, your FSB/RAM bandwidth is cut by half, and SLC models are also not really full fat 486 they have very small L1 cache. Sure this will still beat any 286 or 386 but the actual performance compared to any normal 486 machine will be pretty bad.

  • @RinoaL
    @RinoaL 28 дней назад +4

    The internet also doesn't think the Thinkpad 385CD exists sometimes, turns out it was just so obsolete by the time it came out that even IBM didn't want to acknowledge it. haha

  • @danielktdoranie
    @danielktdoranie Месяц назад +12

    I would love to see you install AIX and OS/2 on some of these IBM computers. I know the PS/2 line had support for both AIX and OS/2 for example. I really want to see “AIXwindows Desktop” running!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +3

      I'm definitely considering it!

    • @DjRobin6969
      @DjRobin6969 3 дня назад +1

      Was a special model 80 that could run AIX

  • @jamesdavis727
    @jamesdavis727 26 дней назад +2

    From ChatGPT - Later, there were upgrade options, including IBM and third-party upgrade kits that allowed some Model 50 systems to adopt faster CPUs, like the 386SLC or even the 486SLC, for increased performance without replacing the entire system. This made it possible to run some 32-bit applications and extend the system’s life in business settings where the PS/2 series had a significant user base. These upgrades allowed the system to remain useful well into the early 1990s for certain tasks.

  • @jasmijndekkers
    @jasmijndekkers Месяц назад +7

    Nice machine. I repair and configured this systems back in the day. I love to see you work on IBMs. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands and i see you next week

  • @leodf1
    @leodf1 28 дней назад +2

    I love you professor tapping everything with the stick

  • @SockyNoob
    @SockyNoob 28 дней назад +2

    You should add flux to the component you're removing before you use hot air. Makes removal much faster and it minimizes hot spots that could damage the board.

  • @anthrobug
    @anthrobug 4 дня назад +1

    Wow this brings back memories. Thank you!

  • @kjamison5951
    @kjamison5951 25 дней назад +2

    Okay, you have me hooked. Liked and subscribed!
    I used the Model 50 in university for machine code programming. I’m pretty sure they were 286s.
    Nice to see you work on this and I’m keen to see more and the upgrades.
    Thank you!

  • @odonkers
    @odonkers 27 дней назад +2

    Worked as a tech on all of the ps/2 models. Extremely easy to take apart and reassemble. Weighed a ton though :-)

  • @GreenAppelPie
    @GreenAppelPie 24 дня назад +1

    I ran a 386-DX40, that’s a HELL of an upgrade

  • @PixelPipes
    @PixelPipes 29 дней назад +7

    Dude what the heck?! This is an insanely rare find!

    • @raven4k998
      @raven4k998 29 дней назад +1

      an old IBM upgraded system so cool very rare find

  • @danpedersen55
    @danpedersen55 28 дней назад +2

    I love the modules for this machine, very well thought out.
    Nice video, very calming and informative...

  • @bkbreyme
    @bkbreyme 29 дней назад +5

    At least some of the Hypertec upgrades sold under the "Options by IBM" branding included replacement badges so you could proudly show off your "Official" upgrade. This may have been purchased as a 50Z and upgraded later with the "official" IBM upgrade. Interestingly, they don't appear to have blacked out the Hypertec chips on this upgrade, as opposed to the 13h6698 upgrade for the model 70/80. At least that is the case on my example...

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +1

      Roman's 50Z system is missing the PCB assembly (there's a picture of it linked from the 'Ardent-Tool' page he referenced - it appears to be *extremely* delicate, and I didn't want to remove it from the 50Z planar of my 7541/7542) that would have gone in the FPU socket; That may be an issue if he tries to use a 387SX/387SL on the CPU upgrade board. The Hypertec CPU upgrade for the 70/80 also had a PAL/GAL PCB that would be installed in the 387DX socket.

  • @lharris428
    @lharris428 28 дней назад +1

    I have one for a a PS/2 Model 60, 50, and 50Z... It's a 50mhz 486 SLC2. IBM had them made and they came with upgrade badges. I have an imgur link of the package contents and another showing benchmarks if you want it.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад

      Thanks. Yes, that would be very interesting to see. I think YT automatically removes comments with links. Please send the link to epictronicsyt@gmail.com

  • @Dawwwg
    @Dawwwg Месяц назад +5

    Congrats on the awesome find; and it indeed looks really cool too with the blue and red. Can't wait for next weeks' video about it !!!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад

      Thanks! It's going to take a few weeks to find all the parts I need for the upgrade

  • @mikes989
    @mikes989 28 дней назад +1

    man. I really need to finish the restoration and repair of my Model 50. The owner, a neophyte, when he was going to throw it away (and I rescued it) took it apart and with a couple of slips of the screwdriver he made some scratches that destroyed several lines and some resistors. But I already fixed everything. Now I'm about to start with the power supply. But I got distracted with a 386 motherboard that was badly damaged by the battery, with which I'm close to finishing its restoration. But the thing is that I have a lot of things to do and try, and I do a little of each, but I don't complete any of them, hahaha

  • @GreenuniverseEuro
    @GreenuniverseEuro 15 дней назад +2

    Holy crap I had it as a kid and I used to learn turbo pascal and basic on it

  • @drewnewby
    @drewnewby Месяц назад +3

    I clicked this so fast, now to wait 5 more minutes. You got me!

  • @rrhalo
    @rrhalo Месяц назад +4

    Top notch video, as usual here! Great time watching these production of yours. Cheers

  • @klaatubob
    @klaatubob 28 дней назад +4

    Ah yes, nostalgia for the worst move IBM every made. MCA made the IBM PC not compatible with the IBM PC.

  • @danielktdoranie
    @danielktdoranie Месяц назад +8

    My understanding is if you put in the i487 FPU it’s just a i486DX, it turns off the 486SX processor on board

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +1

      Now that is a very interesting thought. That's exactly what we did in the IBM PS/1 486SX video. I disabled the onboard 486SX with a bodge wire and installed a 5x86 in the 487 socket. The only problem is that I don't think there is a 487 in this form factor.

    • @danielktdoranie
      @danielktdoranie Месяц назад

      @@Epictronics1well that IBM/Hypertech(?) accelerator has an FPU socket, right? It also comes with a 486/SX soldered processor… so some 487 FPU has to fit it. If it has an FPU socket some FPU should fit in is my logic

    • @matthewday7565
      @matthewday7565 29 дней назад +3

      @@Epictronics1 The SLC is a 386sx replacement, so the FPU would be a 387sx or clone

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      @@matthewday7565 That kinda sucks a little bit :)

    • @josephlunderville3195
      @josephlunderville3195 29 дней назад +2

      486 SLCs, from what I see online, are not actually i486s. There is a Cyrix design, and a different one that IBM made based on the i386, and in any case they have a 386 electrical interface and would interact with a 387 coprocessor in the normal way.

  • @jerther_
    @jerther_ 27 дней назад +2

    The backwards power switch mod is pretty neat too! ;P
    Can't wait to see Doom run on this!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  27 дней назад

      I didn't think anyone would notice lol

    • @jerther_
      @jerther_ 26 дней назад +1

      ​@@Epictronics1 Hahaha :) I think I totally understand why though! Must be quite the effort to get to that switch once everything's reassembled.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  26 дней назад +1

      @@jerther_ Apparently this Arrow P/N is "upside down" :) We'll flip it in the follow up vid

    • @jerther_
      @jerther_ 26 дней назад +1

      Oh the switch itself is made upside down! Interesting! Are you going to mod it? That'd be quite a feat 😁

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  26 дней назад +1

      @@jerther_ I'm gonna try to install it upside down first

  • @mowersman
    @mowersman 28 дней назад +1

    Thats pretty cool.
    Got an MCA 386 upgrade card in my model 50, but its no 486!

  • @iammrsparkle84
    @iammrsparkle84 Месяц назад +6

    I've been kicking myself the last few months. In the very early 2000s, I also had one of these oddballs, though it was labeled as a 50Z 486 (yes, with a factory-looking label as well). The floppy drive died. And then, I (possibly) inadvertently removed the battery. No more booting from the hard drive without booting from the reference disk. Repair for the drive was out of my wheelhouse, and sourcing a replacement drive was impossible at that time. I had many 486 machines at that time, so off to junk it went.
    Recently, I had been thinking about all the machines I've had in the past, and remembered that one. With more knowledge of IBM PS/2 systems, I started to second-guess myself. 50 and 50Zs are 286 machines. Am I misremembering? I found a photo of the computer, and though the label is blurry, I can still make out that it does have "PS/2 Model 50Z 486" on it. Searched the Internet for any information about this guy, and just like you, came up with absolutely nothing.
    I would love to know the history behind this computer. Having extra stock of Model 50 parts lying around makes sense. Date codes on the upgrade CPU card are from 93. 1993 is pretty late to still be pushing a 286. But then the bigger question is... why would yours just have a "PS/2 Model 50 486" badge and mine would have a "PS/2 Model 50Z 486" badge, especially since your planar is from a 50Z. We may never have an answer.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +2

      Every time I upload a video about an oddball like this, I hope one of the engineers who designed it will see it and comment :) So far, my best guess is that they cleared out the stock of 50Z boards with this crazy upgrade

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +1

      Yes, the Model 50 and 50Z (as well as the tower Model 60) were based on the 286 CPU; With the Model 50 and 60, it was in PGA (Pin-Grid Array) packaging, and the 50Z had a PLCC (Plastic-Leaded Chip Carrier) 286. The 50Z (aka "Model 50 Type 2") also had a single 72-pin SIMM (instead of two 30-pin), the DBA-ESDI 30Mb or 60Mb HDD (compared to the MFM 20Mb of the Model 50), and "zero wait-states" that gave it the model designation. Another IBM system that had the 50Z planar is the 7541/7541 (whether it was a 'desktop' system with rubber feet, or rack-mount) "Industrial" model - and mine has the same CPU upgrade as shown here.

  • @AnthonyRBlacker
    @AnthonyRBlacker 26 дней назад +2

    1:30 in and talk about a possible diamond in the rough here! I'm sure there were a handful out there, but by the time the 486 was out, well.. there were MUCH cheaper alternatives to anything other than the largest companies. Maybe I'm wrong but you may well have a quite rare machine here!! Nice find!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  26 дней назад +1

      Yes, I think we have a pretty rare machine here. The video has been up for a few days now. A few comments about people remembering these machines from back in the day but no comments so far from owners

  • @nathanahubbard1975
    @nathanahubbard1975 29 дней назад +1

    Very interesting to see. The first computer I built was an SLC2-50 machine. It was a soldered on CPU and obviously more like a 386 board, but it was very cheap in mid 1993.

  • @rediband
    @rediband 28 дней назад +1

    I remember setting these up for a college back in the day. One user used hers as a footrest, she took her shoes off and rubbed her feet on it all day until dead skin got caked on. It was not fun to work on that one..

  • @psilimit
    @psilimit 6 дней назад +1

    Noctua fan and MORE goodies?! Yes!!!

  • @RetroTechChris
    @RetroTechChris 29 дней назад +4

    Very nice. What a fancy upgrade!!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      Thanks. Yeah, this upgrade is unreal!

  • @deviljelly3
    @deviljelly3 29 дней назад +1

    This one is a keeper.... create the perfect picture you always wanted to

  • @bikkiikun
    @bikkiikun 28 дней назад +1

    If I may add to your explanation as to to how the Chip Quick works, it stays molten for longer, because the melting point is so low (hence it needs a lot more time to re-harden).

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад +1

      Yeah, I realized my mistake while editing :D It's kinda the same thing

  • @UpLateGeek
    @UpLateGeek 29 дней назад +1

    Wow! I've got a 386 upgrade in one of my model 50s, but I've never seen a 486 upgrade! I imagine it would be a little limited with a 16-bit bus at 24-bit address space, although I'm sure it would still see some big performance improvements for software that ran marginally on a 286. Glad to see the hard drive was still running and no issues with sticky heads. Anyway, looks like this was a relatively easy restoration, but it's always good to see another one back up and running.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад +1

      Yes, I don't expect it to be as fast as a "proper" 486DX2-50 but the benchmarks indicated that it's not too far off!

    • @tw11tube
      @tw11tube 29 дней назад +2

      @@Epictronics1 That always depends on how much of the benchmark fits into the caches. The RAM speed on that machine is obviously brutally slow for a 486 system, but looking at the cachechk output at @24:10, the L2 cache (which does not even get recognized by cachechk) is only marginally faster. There were 4 of the 256kBit cache chips (and a tag ram chip) on the upgrade PCB, and indeed, you will find the time for 32, 64 and 128K to be around 220ns/byte, whereas bigger blocks are 245ns/byte.
      As long as the code and data of the benchmark (mostly) fits into the 16K L1 cache on that "super little chip", you will get 486-like performance, and even the clock doubling will work out perfectly. But as soon as your working set exceeds 16K, this machine starts to be mostly waiting for RAM, and the SLC2-50 will just wait twice as many internal cycles than SLC-25 would have waited.
      Great props to IBM for shipping their 486SLC with a decent amount of L1 cache. The L1 cache of the early Cyrix 486SLC chips is just 1K, and it mostly helps benchmarks, while all real-world software is starved on FSB performance. It always felt completely silly to me that you combine a 486 core with a heavily undersized bus interface (the 386SX interface), then add clock doubling to the core that is already bus starved, and at the same time only provide an eigth of the cache size of a proper Intel 486 processor. IBM did exactly the correct thing by increasing cache size to compensate for the slow bus interface.

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +3

      The IBM 486SLC2-50 CPU is derived from the Intel 386SX codemask, and is still a 24-bit address/16-bit data bus design, with the same (286/386SX, 16Mb of RAM maximum) limitations. The IBM 386SLC has 8Kb of on-die L1 cache (like an Intel 486-class CPU), and the 486SLC/486DLC versions have 16Kb cache (only done by Intel with late-model 486DX4 CPUs). All of the IBM SLC/DLC CPUs (even the 386SLC) support the Intel 486SX (no FPU) instruction set.

  • @bad.sector
    @bad.sector 24 дня назад +1

    Interesting find! I had a Model 50Z as first machine, too - albeit upgrading from an Atari XE ;). Mine also had a white switch - and it was off a batch of which a lot of the machines went to my school - all of them with white switches. So that was standard at some point.
    I personally never liked it because it was a 286 (all the cool stuff needed a 386), no standard upgrades worked (so no Soundblaster off the shelf), and only standard VGA, so no 256 colors at 640x480, which was the cool stuff at the time. A 486 SLC might have changed my opinion...
    Then went onto a standard Pentium based machine, and never looked back. Imagine going suddenly more than 100 times faster... (0.9 Mips on 286-10 vs. 126 on P75)

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  22 дня назад +1

      Same thing here. I upgraded from a C64 to the Model 50 and then later to a Pentium. Things changed rapidly back then!

  • @Vermilicious
    @Vermilicious 29 дней назад +1

    Nice find there. Please make sure to document it :)

  • @radio-ged4626
    @radio-ged4626 20 дней назад +1

    I made a fortune in overtime back in the '90s replacing endless delay lines on the Model 50Z. £100 a time for the company, I got 20%. I used to do about 20 boards over a weekend. Did it for months. Unfortunately I was young and dumb and spent it most of it on beer and night clubs. Often doing overtime with a stinking hang-over - great times.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  20 дней назад

      Sounds like fun! What do you mean by replacing delay lines?

    • @radio-ged4626
      @radio-ged4626 19 дней назад +1

      The device in the middle of the board labelled PE-27081 is a 50nS delay line used to correct the time difference on memory address caused by the board track length. These often failed causing the board not to POST.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  19 дней назад

      @@radio-ged4626 That could be useful to know. Thanks

  • @krizator
    @krizator Месяц назад +9

    Very interesting machine 😊

  • @KaiMic718
    @KaiMic718 Месяц назад +4

    No fun in Germany only Wörk, so no Games! Nice Vid, Greetings from Germany 😅

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +2

      haha, thanks. I prefer games to wörk any day lol

  • @alisharifian535
    @alisharifian535 Месяц назад +2

    A few days ago, a blue no-name branded film capacitor blew up in my ATX power supply which was a part of snubber circuit. I think RIFAs are not alone in that league.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +1

      If it's blue, it's probably a WIMA. They smell really bad! I have washed my display with a blown WIMA, but it still stinks of burned electronics!

  • @hooflung128
    @hooflung128 28 дней назад +1

    I have a 286 based PC9801 that has a 486 upgrade very similar to that and there are plenty of parts online. So it seems this was a very common upgrade over seas.

  • @andrewwright1200
    @andrewwright1200 29 дней назад +1

    Found this quite from a 2017 forum post:
    There are other, far more substantial upgrades and peripherals I’d like to add to it, such as the IBM 486SLC2-50/25 processor upgrade kit (incredibly rare and prohibitively expensive if you do find one) or a math co-processor (haven’t been able to find one).

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад

      This must be an exceptionally lucky find

  • @myleft9397
    @myleft9397 29 дней назад +2

    Gets a pretty clean machine. Cleans it even more. Boots! Great video.

    • @raven4k998
      @raven4k998 29 дней назад +1

      according the the innerweb's this computer does not exist

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +1

      @@raven4k998: But the processor upgrade FRU P/N does exist in IBM documentation, like the "IBM PC and PS/2 Pocket Reference"...

    • @raven4k998
      @raven4k998 29 дней назад +1

      @@IBM_Museum so if it was never published means if it was an IBM prototype it never got to the publishing stage simple and was forgotten about otherwise it was simply upgraded later on in it's life

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +2

      ​@@raven4k998: It's not a prototype - I have this CPU upgrade board on a 7541/7542 system myself. IBM had "System Board Upgrade" planars that the marketing and CE personnel were aware of when the customer was hooked into having IBM computers and needed better performance.

  • @ryuquen
    @ryuquen 29 дней назад +2

    neozeed just found something like this, built by third party, for his ps/2 model 60. it's fun to see something similar is done by IBM.

  • @McRocket
    @McRocket 28 дней назад +1

    I know little about fixing computers.
    But I still find your videos interesting and I am a subscriber.
    Just sayin'.

  • @SockyNoob
    @SockyNoob 28 дней назад +2

    The reason the Panasonic batteries rarely leak is because they're lithium. Pretty much all lithium chemistries have similar failure modes, none of which involves a strong base or acid fuming out. It's still technically possible for a lithium battery to leak, but it's rare and nowhere near as corrosive as Ni-Cad or alkaline batteries. Still can ruin electronics regardless.

  • @Darxide23
    @Darxide23 29 дней назад +2

    I have always found ChipQuik to be far more trouble than it's worth. It's incredibly messy and has a chance to contaminate the solder of nearby components. What you really need is a set of tweezer tips for your iron. Makes removing those SMD electrolytics a piece of cake.

  • @johncate9541
    @johncate9541 25 дней назад +1

    That was some really good engineering, if they got 286 motherboard upgraded to a clock-doubled 486/50 to out-perform a 386DX-40. I remember those kinds of upgrades existing and they rarely offered good performance, because they were hobbled by the limitations of the 286 board. Usually, you could hack a 486 onto a 386 design and it would work well enough, but the 286 was a bridge too far.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  25 дней назад

      I wasn't expecting much either, but this thing actually performs

  • @IBM_Museum
    @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +3

    What is the model-submodel encoding? The 50Z came with a 30Mb (8550-031) or 60Mb (8550-061) as shown. The Model 50 came with the blue eject 'big-button' drives (and the red power switch as you like), the 50Z and Model 70 came with 'small-button', having an additional PCB to use the later pin-connect drives. BTW, the Model 70 did have two 486 versions, the 486DX-25 by having the CPU and BIOS update, and also a "System Board Upgrade" that was rebadged from Reply, with a 33MHz base clock (the DX2-33 and even AMD 5x86-133 upgrades could work on it).

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      That's very cool. I need to find one of those boards. I'll check the model number, probably 061

  • @MaxCarponera
    @MaxCarponera 18 дней назад +1

    Check that cache is enabled in BIOS

  • @cameramaker
    @cameramaker 28 дней назад +1

    I have seen that cpu upgrade board in some youtube video, but can not find it now. If you are very curious, it would be worth to image the full hard drive and try data recovery/reconstruction :) a clean install would overwrite just some parts of it. So .. shall we dig deeper?

  • @reidster87
    @reidster87 29 дней назад +1

    What a fascinating system. Since IBM sold so many of the Model 50, it makes sense to me that they commissioned an upgrade path. Replacing the planar with a Model 70 could have been an option, but would also require the addition of a hard drive controller and new hard drive at a minimum. This "plug in" upgrade retains more of the original components and seems like it requires minimal labour to install. The 128KB of cache SRAM on the upgrade board would be crucial for performance since the RAM on the planar is limited to 10MHz on a 16-bit bus. My guess is that this would be a dealer or field technician installed upgrade, and the kit included the CPU upgrade board and the new top case with side vents and 486 badge.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      That makes perfect sense. But why is this the only known IBM to have this upgrade?

    • @samwalker7567
      @samwalker7567 29 дней назад +1

      Would not surprise me if the side vents were also dealer/field installed (or at least a one-in-one-out swap scheme) as punching a few extra cooling holes in the case sides is going to be a lot cheaper than replacing the hole case top.

  • @halitimes2
    @halitimes2 29 дней назад +2

    I had a model 50 as a NetWare Lite file server at one point, the 286 of course

  • @craigrenwick9132
    @craigrenwick9132 Месяц назад +3

    Great video, never knew theses existed!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад

      Thanks :) Neither did I! This IBM is nuts!

  • @nickwallette6201
    @nickwallette6201 27 дней назад +3

    I really wish more SMD caps would PRINT THE VALUES ON TOP instead of obscure codes. WTF is an EFK 4CN? Just say 100 / 25V!

  • @winstonsmith478
    @winstonsmith478 29 дней назад +1

    Beautiful modular design.

  • @skilletpan5674
    @skilletpan5674 29 дней назад +1

    I do think I've seen a similar "model 40 486" or similar many years ago. The converter CPU boards meant that you could indeed put a different CPU in and I think they where supposed to be cheaper than a proper 486 etc. The main issue was the bus width and I think clock speeds? If you had the cash you were better off getting a proper 486.
    Mind you the PS/2 machines were renowned for having custom bios stuff/hardware that broke the usual "standards" of the time. Same with compaq and I think HP. You could get many clone PCs that were running AMI or Phoenix bioses and they ran all the games and other software fine.
    My recollection for the incompatibility were things like GFX(Their implementation of MDA/MCGA etc I think was a bit different),fonts and I think some internal DOS/BIOS/interrupt tables were different than the standard.

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 28 дней назад

      "Their implementation of MDA/MCGA etc I think was a bit different),fonts and I think some internal DOS/BIOS/interrupt tables were different than the standard."
      Only IBM (on the 8086-based Model 25 and Model 30, and a couple derivative systems based on their planars) and the Epson Equity 1e used MCGA - and MCGA was never on a separate adapter. There are a couple fonts that changed with MCGA, and different versions of the IBM CGA adapter. And the IBM BIOS versions add more BIOS calls (like INT 15h, Function C9h for CPU information) than the clone manufacturers had in the CBIOS, and had the IBM-specific ABIOS section.

    • @skilletpan5674
      @skilletpan5674 28 дней назад

      @IBM_Museum yeah my memory is vague with the differences but there were definately some incompatabilities and i know some of them were things like how the memory was layed out etc.
      I had a model 30 xt version at one point and a couple of others later.

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 28 дней назад

      @@skilletpan5674: The 486SLC2 and 486SLC3 are clock doubled and tripled respectively, but are 16-bit external data bus and 24-bit address bus (meaning 16Mb of RAM maximum). The 486DLC2/486BL2 are 32-bit CPUs that are clock-doubled. Very different limitations.

  • @FrancisFjordCupola
    @FrancisFjordCupola 25 дней назад +1

    I know back in the day there were 486DX-50's, as in not-DX/2's. The DX/2's got higher clockspeeds by doubling the bus clock. But the far faster bus on the DX-50 helped a great deal. I thought the DX-50 came quite close to the DX/2-66 at times.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  25 дней назад

      Yes, I've got a DX50. It's great, but picky with VLB cards!

  • @bikkiikun
    @bikkiikun 28 дней назад +1

    What would make me suspicious (about it being a factory 486), is the absence of a CD-Rom drive.
    And I guess, the badges would have been shipped with the upgrade kit.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад +1

      I have finally managed to find one of the silly-rare external PS/2 drives for these machines :) It's in a pretty bad condition though so, we'll have to restore it in a video

  • @PrimroseGuy
    @PrimroseGuy Месяц назад +12

    Can you fix the orientation of the switch? Up is supposed to be On.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад +7

      haha, I didn't think anyone would notice 😅 Apparently, this P/N is "upside down" We'll fix it in the follow-up video!

    • @jasonhaman4670
      @jasonhaman4670 29 дней назад +2

      @@Epictronics1 It weirded me out when you pushed it down and it turned on. I was going to comment that I'd never seen an IBM power switch where down was on, but I assumed that that's how this one was supposed to be.

  • @XeonProductions
    @XeonProductions Месяц назад +2

    I always mentally prepare myself for the exploding tantalums when watching videos about computers of this age.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +1

      The newest tant I have blown so far is from 1986. IBM PS/2s are ready to start blowing up any day now :)

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +1

      @@Epictronics1: And systems that are stored away are more likely to develop the "whiskers" and have ambient humidity saturate the tantalums than electronics that are used...

  • @AnthonyRBlacker
    @AnthonyRBlacker 26 дней назад +2

    Oh, I finally broke down and purchased a 3d printer. I found the Creality Ender 3 S1 Pro (the one to get if you're going 'cheap'. It was $187 BRAND NEW on eBay direct from Creality America.. As far as I'm concerned I STOLE this thing.. it has basically PAID for itself already, I have printed 2 clips to fix the handle on my refrigerator, a few other little things as well, but.. even with some accessories like a filament dryer, 6 kilos of filament (assorted flavors and colors) the enclosure (for temp and humidify control) a vacuum bag machine and bags.. you know, have to have all the goodies to go along with it, but I think I'm in under $400 with enough filament to last probably 6 months of printing. I am SO excited.. I can replace ALL the broken plastics from all my old machines now and do them correct, MYSELF. I am SO excited!!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  26 дней назад +1

      That's awesome! At the moment I'm pretty happy that I can order free prints from a sponsor but looking forward to having my own printer in the future!

    • @kjamison5951
      @kjamison5951 25 дней назад +1

      @AnthonyRBlacker - congratulations on your purchase.
      I hope your supplies last six months. Seriously. Once you start printing, and designing and printing… consumables are consumed.
      They are addictive because unlike most modern electronics, 3D printing involves a tinker element. You find you cannot leave them alone.
      Good luck! It’s rewarding when you design something for work or home that has never existed before.
      When someone sees a print in action as a functional tool and ask,”Where did you get this?” and you tell them that you printed it… people look at you differently.
      It’s still a realm where some folks consider 3D printers to be a form of ‘witchcraft’ and a designer/maker to have supernatural skills.
      I have two filament and two resin printers.
      My friend has four printers. She cannot stop printing new stuff.
      Good luck!

  • @agentkruger
    @agentkruger Месяц назад +1

    Toujours un plaisir de visionner vos vidéos 🤗🖥️🩺

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад +1

      Merci. J'ai vécu en France de 1982 à 1983 :)

  • @michaelblair5566
    @michaelblair5566 29 дней назад +1

    I forgot about the IBM 486 SLC chips. I built some clone PC's that used them back in the 1990's!

  • @BigBadBench
    @BigBadBench 29 дней назад +1

    What an epic find! Amazing!

  • @17659817265781465781
    @17659817265781465781 29 дней назад +2

    Neat modularity

  • @The_Last_Ninja
    @The_Last_Ninja 23 дня назад +1

    19:44 Hypertec was an Australian PC manufacturer back in the days. That may explain the 50hz crystal on the PCB??

  • @harshbarj
    @harshbarj 28 дней назад +1

    I actually have a 286 to 486 upgrade. It just drops in to the 286 socket. SO I used it as one does on a IBM XT. Now you may be saying an IBM XT is a 8088 based machine, and you would be correct. But I added a 286 upgrade card which replaces the 8088 CPU with a socketed 286. I then installed my 486 upgrade chip into that and had the worst 486 you could have. Why? Because, why not! What else am I going to do with those parts?

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад +1

      That's very cool. I need to find an XT to AT board and try this out :)

    • @harshbarj
      @harshbarj 28 дней назад +1

      @@Epictronics1 I have the "Orchid 286 Tiny Turbo". It came in a large lot of misc. stuff I bought from some website back in the mid 2000's. For I think like $30 you got a box of mixed PC parts. I just wish I would have stocked up on those boxes back then. Some of the stuff I got in those boxes today would be worth a small fortune.
      If you do get one just be sure it comes with the connector cable. The card is worthless without it. Most places I have found that sell it have just the card.

  • @nielsen145
    @nielsen145 29 дней назад +1

    i will say to this, my 286 back in the day, when i was kid, looked this, with holes on the side, the difference is on the front, where the floppy disk was, instead of the big hole you have for the botton, it had a small hole instead, so the floppy drive you had inside, looked original. i will say the 286 came from my moms work and got it in 94, idk if has something to do with design of the case.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад +1

      My other Model 50s have vent holes on one side. This IBM has vent holes on both sides

  • @Infrared73
    @Infrared73 29 дней назад +1

    I had a ALR Powerflex way back when. It was designed as a 286 that had a 386 or 486 daughter board that could be installed. When installed it disabled the onboard 286. I imagine that IBM utilized a similar concept here. As I remember though the performance was pretty limited compared to proper motherboard as there was a significant bottleneck to the memory.

  • @intel386DX
    @intel386DX 29 дней назад +1

    Crazy upgrade. Can you compare the fastest 286 supported by this board and this 486 upgrade ?

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      Yes, I plan to do some comparisons in a follow up video

  • @TheSleepychicken
    @TheSleepychicken 28 дней назад +1

    I threw so many into a skip when we upgraded at work.

  • @g4z-kb7ct
    @g4z-kb7ct 29 дней назад +1

    19:40 Be EXTREMELY careful with that PLCC68 male socket, they are unobtanium now. The 486SLC is really just a 386sx with 16kB L1 cache and 486 instruction set but only has a 16-bit data bus so it's not a true 486. Performance will be somewhere between 386 and 486.

  • @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365
    @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365 29 дней назад +1

    The lack of documentation on this "model" makes me think this must have been a localized upgrade offered by IBM only in specific international markets.
    The badge does indicate to me this was an IBM-installed upgrade. I'm easily imagining some ads in local newspapers and magazines, and you had to bring in your machine to an authorized center for service, where the upgrade would be performed. As part of the upgrade, the badge on your case would be changed as well.
    I'm guessing the upgrade would have been pretty expensive, and very few people did it, preferring to change their computer entirely instead.
    Obviously this is all pure speculation, but this is the story/scenario that makes the most sense in my head.

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +2

      IBM was licensed to use the 386SX codemask from Intel (hence the Intel copyright on the chip) with the limitation that the derived CPUs (386SLC, 496SLC2/486SLC3, and 486DLC2/486BL) only be used on IBM systems. I'm sure IBM charged a premium for installing this upgrade, although the IBM CE would come out to the customer premises as well for a business. Years ago, I was contacted by a (U.S.) power company that wanted to replace a failed diskette drive for a Model 50Z, and declined my offers to replace the entire system with something newer (it probably had an industrial microchannel adapter for monitoring, but I offered a PS/2 Model 77 as a substitute).

  • @SudosFTW
    @SudosFTW 29 дней назад +2

    The only reason this works is because the 386SX was a drop-in for 286 chipset boards. and then tyhe 486SLC was a drop-in for that, all in the name of cost cutting. and in IBM's case, not so much.

  • @bikkiikun
    @bikkiikun 28 дней назад +1

    Will you be trying for the additional FPU??

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад +1

      I'm pretty sure I have one, but I don't think I know of a game that would make any use of it

  • @tomekrv942
    @tomekrv942 29 дней назад +1

    Can't wait for next episode

  • @xephorce
    @xephorce Месяц назад +2

    what a nice little odd ball you found there. now I wonder what else could be installed in its place? like any other cpus?

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад

      There's only one way to find out :)

  • @ghinckley68
    @ghinckley68 Месяц назад +3

    i put a 50mhz crystal on my 486-33 ran like a bat out of hell.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад

      :D

    • @ghinckley68
      @ghinckley68 Месяц назад +1

      @@Epictronics1 It got a little hot to the touch so i just sat a heatsink on it with some paste. I don't remember how i secured it. I must have used and heat sink tape or something.

    • @ghinckley68
      @ghinckley68 Месяц назад +1

      @@Epictronics1 Any way it was more than a match for a dx-2 66

    • @ghinckley68
      @ghinckley68 Месяц назад +1

      @@Epictronics1 any yea the fun days of computers i think i built it around 94 or 95

    • @ghinckley68
      @ghinckley68 Месяц назад +1

      @@Epictronics1 also had amd 386 dx40 that i ran at 80mhzid i did have a fan on it. but did this in 96 just for fun. I ran 95 on it no issues.
      Just fyi i had a 386-20sx that i put the 95 drive in to test and htat thing boot win95 and ran it no issues.

  • @psilimit
    @psilimit 7 дней назад +1

    If you install OS/2 17:32 version 2 on an IBM PS2 and connect a PS2 mouse while its running...the whole thing crashes.

  • @omarguerrero6417
    @omarguerrero6417 27 дней назад +1

    Yes It can be fake but we got to remember some computer models were hidden models use by specific companies with special models of devices that don't have things like camera or microphone

  • @HeavyD6600
    @HeavyD6600 29 дней назад +1

    Nice PC!

  • @dmurphynj
    @dmurphynj 29 дней назад +1

    Wow, this is gorgeous! I’m almost done with restoring a 50Z (also my first x86 PC) - I’m just really struggling finding a working 1.44MB floppy. Any chance you know someone who repairs them (I have several dead ones) or has spare working drives?

    • @dmurphynj
      @dmurphynj 29 дней назад +2

      Now that I’ve finished watching the video, I see you did the floppy repair yourself. I’d be happy to hire your services to fix the drives I have if you’re interested.
      Long story short, my project involves both a 50Z and a Model 70.
      I’ve done a bunch of work to virtualize a Banyan VINES server and plan to use the 50Z and 70 as VINES clients.
      Everything works except the floppy drive. I’ve got an emulator in place that let me install what I need to (including the Ethernet drivers) - but want to get a real floppy drive in place to make it 100% authentic.
      Amazing machines that deserve restoration and preservation!

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      @@dmurphynj Sorry, I'm already working two full-time jobs so no chance to take on any repairs. You could check with your local vintage computer club. Hopefully, someone there could help you. Good luck with the project!

  • @alexanderliverierolavelli1999
    @alexanderliverierolavelli1999 29 дней назад +1

    I have a ps/2 model 55sx (i386sx 16 Mhz) and also had the white power switch lever (apart from being the slowest pc I ever used)

  • @deviljelly3
    @deviljelly3 29 дней назад +1

    What a beauty....

  • @MsKMX5
    @MsKMX5 29 дней назад +1

    It could be a special bid unit that Ibm made for a company or organization. If you provide the numeric model number from the rear, might be able to find some information on it.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад

      Thanks. The numbers at the back are : MH13762(N) and DN556689522

    • @MsKMX5
      @MsKMX5 28 дней назад +1

      @@Epictronics1 it doesn't look like any Ibm model number that I'm familiar with. It should have type/model followed by the serial number.

  • @Raptor3388
    @Raptor3388 29 дней назад +1

    Interesting CPU adapter board.
    Where did you get the production numbers for the computer ?

  • @SwitchingPower
    @SwitchingPower Месяц назад +2

    The 50Z I have does have vents on the side of the case

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад

      Yes, my 50z has vents on one side too. This machine has vent holes on both sides

  • @watchmakerful
    @watchmakerful 28 дней назад +1

    486 with only 1 M RAM? How much RAM can it accept?

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  28 дней назад +1

      Only 1MB on the mobo. To add more I need to find an expansion card for the MCA bus

  • @ocsrc
    @ocsrc 27 дней назад +1

    You can put in a new combo FDD / HDD card

  • @fluffycritter
    @fluffycritter 29 дней назад +1

    IBM at least had the good sense to switch to a red floppy eject button for the 2.88MB drives, but it's deeply unfortunate that they used the same blue for 720K and 1.44MB as far as I can tell.

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 29 дней назад +1

      Red? - I've only seen the blue "small-button" 2.88Mb diskette drives, with one version having an asterisk ('*') as so not to be combined with certain PS/2 models; More information at the 'Ardent-Tool'.

    • @fluffycritter
      @fluffycritter 25 дней назад

      @@IBM_Museum Hm, maybe I'm thinking of a different manufacturer then. I could have sworn I've seen IBM Aptivas with red eject buttons labeled 2.88.

    • @IBM_Museum
      @IBM_Museum 25 дней назад

      @@fluffycritter: Aptivas and PS/2s didn't have interchangable diskette drives - I wasn't aware of 2.88Mb drives on Aptivas, however. The only IBM 2.88Mb drives I have seen not on PS/2s is the PC Server 720 (where they were beige).

    • @fluffycritter
      @fluffycritter 17 дней назад

      @@IBM_Museum Okay, I'm definitely misremembering then.

  • @mrvomit101
    @mrvomit101 29 дней назад +1

    I would assume this might have been a one off thing for certain markets and/or government agencies? Where did you acquire the machine?

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      Could be. This IBM came from Austria

  • @k1lluachan
    @k1lluachan Месяц назад +3

    German key mapping z and y are switched 😉

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  Месяц назад

      I noticed lol

    • @tw11tube
      @tw11tube 29 дней назад +1

      @@Epictronics1 Also remember that the DOS keyboard driver can be switched to "US layout" using Ctrl-Alt-F1 and switched back to local layout using Ctrl-Alt-F2.

    • @Epictronics1
      @Epictronics1  29 дней назад

      @@tw11tube I didn't know that, thanks!

  • @edwinvp
    @edwinvp 9 дней назад

    I never knew the Germans had a QWERTZ keyboard layout