The color shifts in NLP, especially in the teals, blues, and greens, is because you are using the "Frontier" color conversion mode. The "Basic" mode should shift those hues back to normal. I used to like the sort of teal and orange look that Frontier and Noritsu provide but basic is definitely more neutral. Blues don't go so teal, and oranges don't lean as red. Also, I would recommend leaving autocolor-2.0 on, maybe even autocolor-warm for films like ektar. As for tonal qualities I prefer linear with some contrast added but that is personal preference, all soft is great too.
The new LUTs added in Negative Lab Pro v2.2 (in beta) will also give you way more control over this... the "Natural" LUT better reproduces the hue range of photographic paper, and makes blues and reds much closer to the real thing. The new "Frontier" LUT (my favorite) more closely reproduces the colors of Frontier scanners, with purer neutrals, "peachy" skin tones, and better separation between greens and yellows. Can't wait for you to try it out!
I've been using Negative Lab Pro with Epson Scan the last couple of months. You can scan a "positive" in Epson Scan to a tiff file that Negative Lab can and will process. I think the results are pretty decent and compared to vue scan (used before to get the DNG) I think it might be faster and just as good.
I’m still not at a point to where I’m developing or scanning my film yet so this video has me really thinking about what I think I like or dislike about certain film stocks. I find it very interesting that I could possibly be disliking Cinestill 50d because of the way that a particular lab may be scanning it. This really brought the entire process into full focus for me because I’m fairly new to film and I’ve only gone through two different labs at this point. We commented back and forth recently about 50d regarding our lack of being impressed so far with it but I gotta say that those negative lab scans really impressed me.
It seems that NLP tries to correct the colors of films towards a unified target, since all the film stocks don't end up looking too dissimilar after conversion. Vuescan seems to be showing more of the colors of the actual film stock, which might be a double edged sword.
Really interesting with the color differences. I dont shoot film anymore, but have a lot of older images I still haven't scanned. I often struggle with the colors so any software that would give a good (better) starting point than I currently get is of interest. Not sure what you have/use of digital, but one test that would be interesting to see if you could take the same shot with digital and film on one of your shoots and include a ColorChecker Passport (or similar) in the shot. Then you could get a pretty accurate color corrected image for comparison with the scans.
Seeing what to me are tremendous hue differences, I would immediatley be shooting some Color Checker charts to see if I could come up with default adjustments for both Vuescan and Negative Lab Pro to give comparable starting points for further manipulation. I would also be seriously questioning the use of any automatic color adjustments in the software. I think this video illustrates a workflow that is out of control and needs to be modified to give a stable starting point for further adjustments.
Great video, have been bouncing around between just the VueScan conversions and processing with NLP. Maybe for a next video try portraits? I feel the saturated look NLP has makes skin tones look way too red. Also NLP's guide says to set your white balance off of the unexposed edge of your film before cropping, that was something I missed. Other than that thanks for the video, just what I needed.
Glad you enjoyed. And yes, you can WB off the border, but for me, 9 out of 10 times when I try to do that, it tells me to pick a different area because it's too bright. In that case, NLP suggests to use AWB.
When I was shooting film I remember I used to take a quick image with my phone of the same scene. It really helped me remember the colours and tones of it! Sometimes I edit my scans after weeks and there's no way to remember the exact colours of the landscape. Really interesting video as always. It really makes me think to pick my girlfriend film camera and give it another go in the outdoors
Just FYI, Cinestill 50D is actually Kodak Vision3 50D with remjet removed. That being said - both films are really for ECN-2 process, labs use C-41 probably, which is cross processing at this point.
Thanks for the video Kyle! I used to be both a Silverfast and NLP user. I liked the NLP workflow but I was very disappointed with the results I was getting, especially with my Fujifilm stocks. My main problems were that a) it had trouble dealing with saturated reds which always looked magenta instead of red b) it had the tendency to neutralize everything to the point that every film stock looked the same. Silverfast on the other hand was messy in its workflow but gave me good results. Recently I got a Minolta Elite 5400 scanner and I tried its original software (it needed some digging to get it to work with Windows 10 but nothing crazy) and I am amazed by the results! By far the easiest of them all from a usability standpoint and most importantly my different film stocks look like they were supposed to. I assume there is a Nikon equivalent, perhaps give it a try?
Hey there, interesting to hear your results. There was an original Nikon Scan software, but I believe you need an older mac, or a Windows machine to use it. I have thought about buying an old iMac just to test it... something I may do in the future as I know many people were happy with the results.
@@KyleMcDougall perhaps you could try it with a virtual machine/Windows partition before committing to a new device. If Nikon Scan is as good as the Minolta software it's definitely worth a try!
My local lab kept making all my Gold 200 scans look sickly yellow and all my Pro 400H scans look sickly green... guess they thought hitting the auto button would fix all the colors lmao
yeah my local labs havent been great when it comes to my scans either I sent over a roll of superia 400 and the colours were horrendous they were pinkish-blue with some images and it was a really yellow/orange/brown area that I shot in the skin tones were completely diluted as well definitely getting myself a scanner in the next couple of weeks, cheaper and I can actually get the colours I want
Epson scan and Vuescan tend to be more green/magenta and more pale compared to NLP. I think NLP does a better orange mask neutralization so it can get truer colors.
I love the quality you're getting from the 9000ed, even on 35mm. I've been looking into an 8000ed that's for sale locally, any major differences that you were apprehensive about before buying?
Yeah, I'm definitely impressed by the results with 35mm. It makes me actually want to shoot some more of it. The 8000ED is apparently very close in terms of results. I don't have any direct experience with it, but there are a lot of articles and discussions comparing the two.
The 8000 is essentially the same scanner but a bit slower. It has *some* known banding issues that can be fixed by running it in fine mode, taking longer but adding quality on top of removing banding
I have an 8000ED. I love it! It's hard to judge images online because some people are not skilled scanners and they look BAD. It definitely takes learning the machine to get the best results. Image quality between the 8000 and 9000 are comparable but the 9000 is significantly faster. I've used imacons and drum scanners professionally and I don't feel like I'm missing anything for my needs with my 8000ED.
Hey Kyle, been really enjoying your scanning videos (well, all your videos), as I have a pretty similar setup (Nikon Coolscan 8000, VueScan, NLP). One thing I wanted to mention on your initial Coolscan 9000 vid but didn't get around to, I don't believe the 9000 has the banding issue so Fine Mode may not actually be a necessity, plus it REALLY slows down the scanning. I don't have this issue with my 8000, so I leave that off. Have you tried it without to see if you're actually getting banding? Second thing, you might see some benefit from having the "Number of Samples" set to 2. This essentially makes the CCD scan twice over the same line as it scans and helps to reduce noise in the shadows. After testing I've seen that with regular (non E6) films a setting of 2 Samples per line is enough to make a difference, but anything higher doesn't yield a noticeable improvement, and it doesn't slow the scanning much (certainly with Fine Mode off you'd significantly be saving time in the end). For E6 slide film I might set it to 4 or even 6 samples for a really dense, black heavy image, but you could try out different settings and see what you get. Final thing, in testing I haven't noticed any drop in sharpness from my scans with the Digital ICE set to "Light" under the Filter tab in VueScan when scanning C41 or E6 films--I've compared two scans against each other, one with ICE off and one with ICE set to Light, and couldn't tell them apart, but the Light filter setting does make a huge difference in terms of dirt/dust and the time spent having to deal with them in post, despite the fact that I use a cotton gloves, an air puffer and a microfiber cloth to keep my negs clean.
Awesome, thanks for the tips! I'll have to try multi pass and see what it's like. As for fine mode, unfortunately, if I leave it checked off, I do get banding. I heard this wasn't an issue with the 9000, but it must be something to do with VueScan.
@@KyleMcDougall That's strange, I'd heard it was fixed with the 9000, and I use VueScan as well and don't get banding. I wonder whether there's any difference using multi-sampling. Though it sounds like if you need to use Fine Mode to eliminate banding then multi-sampling might just slow your scan down more
Thank you for this Video! How do get out just the negatives (NON-CONVERTED VERSION) from VueScan, so get apply NLP in the next step? Thanks for your help!
Hey buddy. This has blown my mind! I have a project all on CineStill800T and i dont quite trust the lab scans, so have bought a epson V600 and (thanks to your tutorials) am going to scan myself. Would you advise i use Negative lab for this project?
@@KyleMcDougall great! thanks mate really appreciate your advice. If you have a minute or two, could you check out my project on IG @christopherbutton ?
The colors of the ‘lavaca meat market’ intrigued me. It was quite easy to find the place in Google Street View ... looks like both results are incorrect 😅
testing out the epson perfection 2580 on virtual XP machine... what a sweet scanner for the price if you shoot only 35mm! it has an auto film loader. 😮✨
Dear Kyle, I have always used negative lab pro, but I have always used a digital camera and macro lens to shoot negatives, and then imported NLP, I also got some good results, I hope you can also do some of this method For evaluation, it is also a good choice to make good use of the tools you already have (no need to purchase additional scanners)
Am I the only one that feels that this is not a fair comparison? My opinion is to scan the NLP scan the way he is doing it in the video, but scan the VueScan version using the film stock settings in VueScan. then bring them over to lightroom. And for the record throw colorperfect into the mix. Love your work Kyle, great videos!
Hey Larry, this is just my workflow. Not trying to sway or trick anyone. I used to use the Vuescan film profiles in the past, but now prefer just using the generic profile to get a nice base image. I found the film profiles to be somewhat inconsistent. Sometimes they'd give me decent results, other times the colours would be way off.
For NLP - Are you not using the border of the negative to set the color balance? The part where you set the color profile to a Negative Lab Pro v2.1 caught me off guard because I either don't have that or am not using that in my workflow.
I always start there, but most times, it tells me it's too bright. In that case, NLP suggests to use AWB. As for the profile, you should have them. Have you followed the instructions on the NLP website? Maybe that could help solve the issue why they aren't showing up.
@@KeinanBossi A Macbeth colour reference card has a set colour and grey colour samples that you can use to neutralise the colour cast firstly then use the colour palate to align colour hue and saturation. You then save those settings and apply them to the rest of your pics in that same exposure conditions. Where you have placed the card, it should be in an area where you can clone out the colour card when you have finished colour correction.
@@leemccurtayne9489 Well you're assuming you're shooting new. If you have archival film you need to do historical correction--like white. Then pull in any color you have a reference for in the real world. Like car paint..I wonder if there is an original reference for car paint from the factory that you could grab with a color puck or enter with RGB values? And let's not forget what you're scanning. Unless your processing is brand new, all your film will shift color. And if you went back to the original scene to capture true colors, you'd find that the ORIGINAL colors have shifted too. It's only a moment in time which is why we take pictures in the first place -- to freeze time. You'd be unhappy with an accurate representation of the scene. You want something that's pleasing to the eye and spurs the imagination. So, pump up the saturation and spin the hue. Bury the blacks and attenuate the whites. Sharpen as much as you can stand then make a print that's over the top. That's my philosophy. We're not doing science here where color matters. Then we'd put a chip chart in the shot and adjust from there. And you wouldn't like it because it would probably be boring.
Kyle, do you think that a 35mm and a 120 image of the same scene, on the same film, will look "the same". I've often heard that the two images should be identical with the exception of resolution. But 120 film always seemed a lot softer in terms of contrast in colors compared to 35mm.
IMO, there will definitely be a difference in the tones because of the larger surface area. From a far, yes, they should look very similar. But if you're printing or presenting larger, there will definitely be a difference.
I imported my images scanned by The Darkroom. I didn't use Vuescan or NLP. Once in Lightroom, I made two edits. One in LR the other in PS. A curves adjustment and dust removal and that was it.I printed the images and I was gently reminded that my eyes have been digitized over 20 years. The prints looked like a film capture. I stepped outside and looked at my backyard. I did not see a photoshop scene. I saw a billion year old sky, not a Kodak moment.
I’ve stayed at Holbrook’s wigwams more times than I can count, I know that old Ford Ranch Wagon! It is one of those oddball 1950s colors, turquoise, sort of a blue green. Definitely not mint green. I can check some other shots but an oldie of mine shows it pretty well. There are green neons overhead so if the office is closed and the overhead lights are off the car shoots as green. In skylight like you have in your shot the blue photographs more prominently. I’d have to look at my newer shots of the place to say for sure but I think the real color of the car is somewhere between the two examples, with NLP a little closer to correct. BTW, all these issues with color negative is no doubt why all the old print media art directors wanted photos on transparency. There still isn’t a one button and nail it solution for color negative color but NLP is the closest I’ve seen. Here is how my Canon 5D2 saw the wagon back in 2011 under a gawdawful mix of lighting: flic.kr/p/aDJoMe
Hello Kyle, amazing video! Very interesting to see the differences between both softwares. Do you know if any of these can remove that magenta cast present in old slides? I have a lot of my dad´s slides to photograph with my dslr, and individually editing each of them is not an easy task. Regards!
Since the LS-9000 is no longer made and expensive to acquire have you ever looked at the Plustek Optifilm 8200 Ai ? It’s only 35mm but it’s reasonably priced. Thanks.
As always Kyle, it has been an interesting and educational view. Ive been using Silverfast Ai almost exclusively because for one it was bundled with my scanner and two it has profiles for many B&W film stocks. I was unfamiliar with NLP and I must say it does makes the CineStill50D pop right away, and I like that stock when it comes to halos around specular highlights but like you I also have mixed feelings. Anyway my question here is do you have any experience using NLP on silver based films and if so is it just as brilliant for B&W silver as it is for colour negs? All best Kyle thx for putting this out there.
Scanning out of viewscan when you export for the NLP process are you exporting as a tiff? I saw Nate made a comment on another video that for NLP with tiff scan files he recommends using the "Tiff Scan Prep" (File -> Plugin Extras -> Tiff Scan Prep) which clones the original tiff and then does some gamma adjustments on it instead of doing the auto whitebalance off the negative edge like you do with the raw file from a DSLR scan. Then after that you crop/convert using NLP as usual. I've been trying the "tiff scan prep" workflow using the un-adjusted tiffs out of Epson Scan and it definitely seems to produce a warmer file, at least with my portra scans. One thing I don't like with that workflow is the enormous tiffs produced. I've found that when I export with epson scan, if I use a tool like irfanview or imagemagick I can convert the raw scanned tiff to an LZW compressed tiff which is significantly smaller (380mb -> 45mb for example). LZW is lossless (no loss in image fidelity) and my processor is fast enough that the compressed file actually speeds things up significantly since the file sizes are so much smaller. One thing I've learned after 10 years of scanning negatives is just when you think you have it figured out something else comes along to prove you wrong.
Always enjoy your vids Kyle.. have you tried Grain2Pixel? I’ve been enjoying it recently - it’s a free photoshop plugin which I use to covert linear tiffs from Epson Scan. Scan needs to be pretty flat and a little under saturated to get the results I like.. but the results are great. Great colours and a nice workflow. Give it a go..
Unfotunately there is no magic button that lets images appear on the screen as you want to. I only use VueScan and create preset/profiles for each film typoe according to my liking. In my opinion there is no need for Negative Lab Pro and then probably tweaking them further in lightroom. Too much software involved. Most people I know of would not consider diving into the settings of VueScan but it is not that difficult. I tried different methods. Scanning raw, saving as TIFF, saving as JPG. Changing every raw image in photoshop by selecting the white point and what not. Now I scan as TIFF and as JPG since I scan all images to review them. I only review them in JPG and I work with TIFF. The selected photos I then edit in Capture One or light room. Each photo needs their own little attention anyway. As of now, I only can recommend to create your very own profile to each film type you scan. Especially as a beginner. The films I scan most of the time are: Portra 400 Portra 160 Tmax 100 Tmax 400 Delta 100 Delta 400 Hp5+ Pancro 400 Plus some experimental films for me Pan F, Pan, Kosmo, and a few others.
Thanks for the information! Is there a way to Show or tell how you tweak the settings in Vuescan? Locking exposure in the Film Mask and then just with the Red/Green/Blue Brightness sliders? When you adjust this for one picture it will not match up with all of the rest of the roll i would guess because of lightning situations? Hope you read my comment. Very interessted in your workflow.
I really wish reviews like this would include something like a MacBeth Color Checker chart in the photo so the actual neutral balance and color accuracy could be compared more objectively. “I like this one better” isn’t really fair to the developers of these color tools.
I definitely agree that for an exact test between the two, that would be most accurate, but I'the point of this video is to show how the two programs perform for my workflow. I don't shoot a macbeth chart for every roll, nor do many people, I'd imagine.
Kyle McDougall but the moment you started making subjective color judgments (“I like this better”) you crossed over from pure workflow evaluation to one of subjective color evaluation. Not sure if you stated from the outset what your goal was, but you made it about color and tone evaluation once you voiced your opinion about it. I enjoyed the video otherwise.
Kyle McDougall ....and I’m one of those weirdos that shoots a ColorChecker Passport at the beginning of each roll and whenever the light changes...for color neg film only. 😉
FYI: I purchased VueScan's professional version being I wanted to scan negatives and have a IR scan. After purchasing I discovered their IR Scan won't work because my Canon 5600F doesn't have an infrared lamp in the scanner lid.
When you scanned the film, in the VueScan Color tab, the Negative Vendor/Brand/Type was left set to Generic Color Negative. But VueScan comes with film profiles, including Portra at least. I’m curious why you didn’t apply the VueScan film profiles at scan time; did you intend to compare straight generic conversions in both VueScan and NLP, or was there another reason? I was wondering how the VueScan colors vs NLP would look if the VueScan film profiles had been applied. (I have used VueScan for years and sometimes I do like the Generic conversion better than the VueScan film profile conversion, but was interested in your reason.) I did like the video because I have not yet used Negative Lab Pro, and I’m interested in how it might be better/different than just VueScan plus Lightroom Classic, which is what I currently do.
I actually did a VueScan video about a year ago, where I showed my process, and I used to often use the built in profiles. But over time, for me, they became hit or miss, so my workflow changed to just using the generic profile to get a base image out of the program.
One virtue of Vuescan is that it will allow you to adapt its current operating system drivers to the original scanner management programs for scanners dating from the XP era. For example, this allows me to use the excellent Minolta XP software in current Windows as an alternative to running the old Minolta scanners in Vuescan alone. The full functionality of my old Minolta scanners is restored. Why bother? These older scanners are hugely better scanners than consumer scanners you can buy new today.
@@AnchorTH The 35mm only top of the line was the 5400 II. The best medium format model name escapes me, but it is on a par with the Nikon 8000/9000 models, but a little lower on maximum dpi. Frankly, the intermediate so-called Duoscan models at about 2900 dpi were selling on ebay for around $75 at one time, but are now up to $300-400, I assume based on lack of modern competition. Unless you have a hefty wallet. picking up the biggest medium format model is probably going to cost well over $2,000 and the 5400 or 5400 II are going for around $1000, assuming that they have all of their parts and accessories. One issue in hunting down and forking over for these older scanners is that there are no new parts and few shops to do repairs, so they can be a risk. If you do not need medium format, a 5400 II is a rather special device, as well as the highest resolving consumer scanner ever sold.
This was very informative. I'm trying to understand what a scanner does. When you use Vuescan or Silverfast or whatever scanning assist, are you really adjusting any hardware setting in the camera or are you just filtering the OUTPUT from the scanner. IOW, I would want the scanner to ingest as much raw information as it can and I'll do the dirty work in Lightroom. This moves the project along without fiddling and maybe loosing something in the software. Give me flat log and I'll crank up the rest. So my question is..is it your opinion that the scanner can't adjust its luminance or bit depth with hardware. Just with software on the way out. So scan flat into raw (big file) or TIFF then go to LR to correct. Help me out here.
Just a note on the car shot, the trees in the negative lab pro shot have gone a bit blue cast, too. Because of that, I'd expect that the VueScan conversion is probably more scene accurate.
Interesting as I kinda like the Vuescan ones a bit more - or rather they seemed more accurate? I agree though that Cinestill show was great! Curious how Vision3 50 in ECN2 may have looked in both. I tend to meander around the options, landing lately on Silverfast Negafix which lately has been very good (I think they improved it in some later updates). NLP is my goto if I feel like I'm not getting good results. For me the workflow for NLP can be a bit jarring with having to manage original copies + TIFFs. Minor gripe but it really adds up when dealing with things like 4x5.
For sure. I personally really like NLP, but yeah, my only critique is having to always make a TIFF copy to edit in LR. Just adds an extra step to the process and can get a bit sloppy if you're not careful.
@@KyleMcDougall I'll go on record as saying I am not careful and my process IS, as a result, quite sloppy :) Sykil made a good point and it makes me wonder if that's why I've had better results with using NLP with Ektar at least in the past. I feel like Silverfast may have caught up a bit since but, especially for 120 and 4x5, I tend to expect I'll need to use NLP to get Ektar to look right. FilmLab is another interesting contender. It is easy to use, I really like the workflow, and got some really nice results with it for quite a few shots with very little work. It feel apart for more challenging negatives (like night shots) where I noticed it tended towards broad color casts (like subtle colors in the details were getting removed). The subscription concept turned me off of it but I think it's worth a look, especially as it matures.
Might need to do a Lock Film Base for a more accurate scan on VueScan. Also, would you like to try my photoshop action? It only takes 2 clicks to get a corrected negative.
It looks like vuesan us the best at giving you the negative with correct shades as they would appear if the negative were developed. And znLzp is trying to give u a warmer negative.
I'm curious how you feel about scanning raw negatives and converting manually with levels. I've been doing so recently with capture one after what feels like endless comparison between nlp and silver fast. In the time nlp does a conversion I can swap values with the levels tool then edit fairly normally from there. Seems like very few people do this anymore.
@@mattanderson354 thank you for your response. Are you just inverting and settings the White Point in the Film mask? And from there on just a little adjustment?
Not to be too cynical, but can’t scans using both softwares be made to appear more or less the same using intrascan and postscan processing and manipulation? Or am I missing something?
Hi Kyle, thanks for a great video. I am having some quite large colour shifts when importing into NLP. When you create the file in Vuescan for Lightroom classic -NLP how do you export the file eg what colour space in Vuescan do you use? Do you make corrections eg colour balance etc or scan the image file with no colour changes. Thanks
Hey Garo, I'm using a camera to 'scan' with now, so no longer using Vuescan. But from what I can remember, I was using AdobeRGB on export. And then always using the eyedropper to balance off the film border before conversion.
@@KyleMcDougall Thanks Kyle, was going to do the same but sticking with my scanner as have everything set up. My resent scans were best and that was scanning with no colour grade, DNG TIFF, and Yes the eyedropper certainly makes a difference.
i prefer vuescan almost every time in this video. nlp looks like its trying to push the saturation which imo results in an image that is less true to life.
Does anyone know how he did that NLP conversion with the profile he selected? I thought you had to do that whole process where you need to keep some of the borders of the film to white balance first then crop and then convert? Kyle just had the cropped negative and converted it with a NLP profile, how's that possible?
Vuescan has very sophisticated but simple control systems for an accurate result, Why not using them ? Vuescan has individual brand and ISO profiles for negative films, you have just to select them. Vuescan has a film lead scanning function that uses the real mask color of the film to compensate specific development inconstancy of the film to be scanned.
NLP четко выставляет точку черного и белого. Если это делать в Фотошоп с помощью кривых, получается результат как в NLP Но если вы умеете находить еще точку серого, то в ваших руках оказывается еще больше арсенал!
Are you getting paid by NLP? This feels biased. You don't bother to do even basic color balancing of the VueScan files in Lightroom, it makes it a pretty iffy comparison. I think that you can achieve nearly identical images with very little work here.
Considering I bought a scanner a couple days ago, this question has been in my head for the last 24 hours. Impeccable timing!
Hope it helps!
The color shifts in NLP, especially in the teals, blues, and greens, is because you are using the "Frontier" color conversion mode. The "Basic" mode should shift those hues back to normal. I used to like the sort of teal and orange look that Frontier and Noritsu provide but basic is definitely more neutral. Blues don't go so teal, and oranges don't lean as red. Also, I would recommend leaving autocolor-2.0 on, maybe even autocolor-warm for films like ektar. As for tonal qualities I prefer linear with some contrast added but that is personal preference, all soft is great too.
Good call. I'll have to check that out. I've always just left it set to Frontier, as that's my preference for labs scans.
The new LUTs added in Negative Lab Pro v2.2 (in beta) will also give you way more control over this... the "Natural" LUT better reproduces the hue range of photographic paper, and makes blues and reds much closer to the real thing. The new "Frontier" LUT (my favorite) more closely reproduces the colors of Frontier scanners, with purer neutrals, "peachy" skin tones, and better separation between greens and yellows. Can't wait for you to try it out!
@@NatePhotographic two years later, I'm still wondering if Kyle knows who you are...lol
Another great video. I would love to see Nikon 9000ED vs quality DSLR scan comparison.
+1
I've been using Negative Lab Pro with Epson Scan the last couple of months. You can scan a "positive" in Epson Scan to a tiff file that Negative Lab can and will process. I think the results are pretty decent and compared to vue scan (used before to get the DNG) I think it might be faster and just as good.
I’m still not at a point to where I’m developing or scanning my film yet so this video has me really thinking about what I think I like or dislike about certain film stocks. I find it very interesting that I could possibly be disliking Cinestill 50d because of the way that a particular lab may be scanning it. This really brought the entire process into full focus for me because I’m fairly new to film and I’ve only gone through two different labs at this point. We commented back and forth recently about 50d regarding our lack of being impressed so far with it but I gotta say that those negative lab scans really impressed me.
Hey Mike, yeah, I agree. I was definitely surprised with how NLP converted the Cinestill. Definitely going to give it a shot with some other images.
It seems that NLP tries to correct the colors of films towards a unified target, since all the film stocks don't end up looking too dissimilar after conversion. Vuescan seems to be showing more of the colors of the actual film stock, which might be a double edged sword.
Really interesting with the color differences. I dont shoot film anymore, but have a lot of older images I still haven't scanned. I often struggle with the colors so any software that would give a good (better) starting point than I currently get is of interest.
Not sure what you have/use of digital, but one test that would be interesting to see if you could take the same shot with digital and film on one of your shoots and include a ColorChecker Passport (or similar) in the shot. Then you could get a pretty accurate color corrected image for comparison with the scans.
silverfast for the sharpening + dust removal, NLP for color inversion is my go to and it works wonders
Seeing what to me are tremendous hue differences, I would immediatley be shooting some Color Checker charts to see if I could come up with default adjustments for both Vuescan and Negative Lab Pro to give comparable starting points for further manipulation. I would also be seriously questioning the use of any automatic color adjustments in the software. I think this video illustrates a workflow that is out of control and needs to be modified to give a stable starting point for further adjustments.
Great video, have been bouncing around between just the VueScan conversions and processing with NLP. Maybe for a next video try portraits? I feel the saturated look NLP has makes skin tones look way too red. Also NLP's guide says to set your white balance off of the unexposed edge of your film before cropping, that was something I missed. Other than that thanks for the video, just what I needed.
Glad you enjoyed. And yes, you can WB off the border, but for me, 9 out of 10 times when I try to do that, it tells me to pick a different area because it's too bright. In that case, NLP suggests to use AWB.
When I was shooting film I remember I used to take a quick image with my phone of the same scene. It really helped me remember the colours and tones of it! Sometimes I edit my scans after weeks and there's no way to remember the exact colours of the landscape. Really interesting video as always. It really makes me think to pick my girlfriend film camera and give it another go in the outdoors
*Patiently awaits Nate's inevitable appearance in the comments*
Here I am! 😂
The NLP seems to give nicer colour separation and nails the white balance right out of the gate.
Another awesome video, would love to see you compare positive scanning + NLP & camera digitalization + NLP
I need to give negative lab pro a try, these results are so much better then im getting from just using epson scan and lightroom
It's definitely worth trying out. They have a trial you can download to test. That's what I did at first.
Kyle McDougall Thank you!! I’m going to give it a try! Another great video! 🙌
I like your all Video. You have done really good work. Thank you for the information.
Latest NLP beta has a WB picker now. Not sure if you’ve tried that out. It helps with some of the trickier scenes.
I'll check it out. Thanks.
great video! love seeing NLP in action.
🙏
Just FYI, Cinestill 50D is actually Kodak Vision3 50D with remjet removed. That being said - both films are really for ECN-2 process, labs use C-41 probably, which is cross processing at this point.
For sure. Always been of big fan of 50D when developed correctly. Not so much with C41.
Thanks for the video Kyle! I used to be both a Silverfast and NLP user. I liked the NLP workflow but I was very disappointed with the results I was getting, especially with my Fujifilm stocks. My main problems were that a) it had trouble dealing with saturated reds which always looked magenta instead of red b) it had the tendency to neutralize everything to the point that every film stock looked the same. Silverfast on the other hand was messy in its workflow but gave me good results. Recently I got a Minolta Elite 5400 scanner and I tried its original software (it needed some digging to get it to work with Windows 10 but nothing crazy) and I am amazed by the results! By far the easiest of them all from a usability standpoint and most importantly my different film stocks look like they were supposed to.
I assume there is a Nikon equivalent, perhaps give it a try?
Hey there, interesting to hear your results. There was an original Nikon Scan software, but I believe you need an older mac, or a Windows machine to use it. I have thought about buying an old iMac just to test it... something I may do in the future as I know many people were happy with the results.
@@KyleMcDougall perhaps you could try it with a virtual machine/Windows partition before committing to a new device. If Nikon Scan is as good as the Minolta software it's definitely worth a try!
Hey Kyle! Could you please do a review of negmaster? Love that software for converting negatives!
My local lab kept making all my Gold 200 scans look sickly yellow and all my Pro 400H scans look sickly green... guess they thought hitting the auto button would fix all the colors lmao
yeah my local labs havent been great when it comes to my scans either I sent over a roll of superia 400 and the colours were horrendous they were pinkish-blue with some images and it was a really yellow/orange/brown area that I shot in the skin tones were completely diluted as well definitely getting myself a scanner in the next couple of weeks, cheaper and I can actually get the colours I want
Excellent, really illuminating indeed.
Epson scan and Vuescan tend to be more green/magenta and more pale compared to NLP. I think NLP does a better orange mask neutralization so it can get truer colors.
Very nice video, Kyle. How do you handle dust and scratch removal with the Vuescan NLP process?
Great video. Did you see any differences in the sharpness/detail in the scans? Is one sharper or softer? (new to film scanning!)
I love the quality you're getting from the 9000ed, even on 35mm. I've been looking into an 8000ed that's for sale locally, any major differences that you were apprehensive about before buying?
Yeah, I'm definitely impressed by the results with 35mm. It makes me actually want to shoot some more of it. The 8000ED is apparently very close in terms of results. I don't have any direct experience with it, but there are a lot of articles and discussions comparing the two.
The 8000 is essentially the same scanner but a bit slower. It has *some* known banding issues that can be fixed by running it in fine mode, taking longer but adding quality on top of removing banding
I have an 8000ED. I love it! It's hard to judge images online because some people are not skilled scanners and they look BAD. It definitely takes learning the machine to get the best results. Image quality between the 8000 and 9000 are comparable but the 9000 is significantly faster. I've used imacons and drum scanners professionally and I don't feel like I'm missing anything for my needs with my 8000ED.
Yeah NLP has made my work flow so much easier. I do like you do I use Vuescan first then NLP
This is a very useful video.
Thank you Kyle.
Cheers, Ali. Glad you enjoyed it.
Hey Kyle, been really enjoying your scanning videos (well, all your videos), as I have a pretty similar setup (Nikon Coolscan 8000, VueScan, NLP). One thing I wanted to mention on your initial Coolscan 9000 vid but didn't get around to, I don't believe the 9000 has the banding issue so Fine Mode may not actually be a necessity, plus it REALLY slows down the scanning. I don't have this issue with my 8000, so I leave that off. Have you tried it without to see if you're actually getting banding? Second thing, you might see some benefit from having the "Number of Samples" set to 2. This essentially makes the CCD scan twice over the same line as it scans and helps to reduce noise in the shadows. After testing I've seen that with regular (non E6) films a setting of 2 Samples per line is enough to make a difference, but anything higher doesn't yield a noticeable improvement, and it doesn't slow the scanning much (certainly with Fine Mode off you'd significantly be saving time in the end). For E6 slide film I might set it to 4 or even 6 samples for a really dense, black heavy image, but you could try out different settings and see what you get. Final thing, in testing I haven't noticed any drop in sharpness from my scans with the Digital ICE set to "Light" under the Filter tab in VueScan when scanning C41 or E6 films--I've compared two scans against each other, one with ICE off and one with ICE set to Light, and couldn't tell them apart, but the Light filter setting does make a huge difference in terms of dirt/dust and the time spent having to deal with them in post, despite the fact that I use a cotton gloves, an air puffer and a microfiber cloth to keep my negs clean.
Awesome, thanks for the tips! I'll have to try multi pass and see what it's like. As for fine mode, unfortunately, if I leave it checked off, I do get banding. I heard this wasn't an issue with the 9000, but it must be something to do with VueScan.
@@KyleMcDougall That's strange, I'd heard it was fixed with the 9000, and I use VueScan as well and don't get banding. I wonder whether there's any difference using multi-sampling. Though it sounds like if you need to use Fine Mode to eliminate banding then multi-sampling might just slow your scan down more
I also sometimes get banding on the 9000.
Thank you for this Video! How do get out just the negatives (NON-CONVERTED VERSION) from VueScan, so get apply NLP in the next step? Thanks for your help!
You have to make sure you’re scanning as a RAW DNG. The option is on the output page.
Hey buddy. This has blown my mind! I have a project all on CineStill800T and i dont quite trust the lab scans, so have bought a epson V600 and (thanks to your tutorials) am going to scan myself. Would you advise i use Negative lab for this project?
I would, personally. I've been most happy with NLP out of any other software/conversions I've tried.
@@KyleMcDougall great! thanks mate really appreciate your advice. If you have a minute or two, could you check out my project on IG @christopherbutton ?
The colors of the ‘lavaca meat market’ intrigued me. It was quite easy to find the place in Google Street View ... looks like both results are incorrect 😅
Assuming the google image is correct.
testing out the epson perfection 2580 on virtual XP machine... what a sweet scanner for the price if you shoot only 35mm! it has an auto film loader. 😮✨
Dear Kyle, I have always used negative lab pro, but I have always used a digital camera and macro lens to shoot negatives, and then imported NLP, I also got some good results, I hope you can also do some of this method For evaluation, it is also a good choice to make good use of the tools you already have (no need to purchase additional scanners)
By the way, great video, I will continue to follow your new video 😄
Thank you. I'm happy with the results from the Nikon, and don't own a digital camera setup that would be good for scanning.
Am I the only one that feels that this is not a fair comparison? My opinion is to scan the NLP scan the way he is doing it in the video, but scan the VueScan version using the film stock settings in VueScan. then bring them over to lightroom. And for the record throw colorperfect into the mix. Love your work Kyle, great videos!
Hey Larry, this is just my workflow. Not trying to sway or trick anyone. I used to use the Vuescan film profiles in the past, but now prefer just using the generic profile to get a nice base image. I found the film profiles to be somewhat inconsistent. Sometimes they'd give me decent results, other times the colours would be way off.
@@KyleMcDougall I get it its a comparison of NLP and manual adjustments in lightroom. And not a one vs another.
Thank you for another great video. Is there a tutorial for Capture One Pro?
For NLP - Are you not using the border of the negative to set the color balance? The part where you set the color profile to a Negative Lab Pro v2.1 caught me off guard because I either don't have that or am not using that in my workflow.
I always start there, but most times, it tells me it's too bright. In that case, NLP suggests to use AWB. As for the profile, you should have them. Have you followed the instructions on the NLP website? Maybe that could help solve the issue why they aren't showing up.
You seriously need a “repeatable color reference card “ in the shot, then retouch it out later
what do you mean? Like a grey card for wb in the scene?
@@KeinanBossi A Macbeth colour reference card has a set colour and grey colour samples that you can use to neutralise the colour cast firstly then use the colour palate to align colour hue and saturation. You then save those settings and apply them to the rest of your pics in that same exposure conditions. Where you have placed the card, it should be in an area where you can clone out the colour card when you have finished colour correction.
@@leemccurtayne9489 a very methodical approach. Thank you
@@KeinanBossi cheers, mate. Pleased to help
@@leemccurtayne9489 Well you're assuming you're shooting new. If you have archival film you need to do historical correction--like white. Then pull in any color you have a reference for in the real world. Like car paint..I wonder if there is an original reference for car paint from the factory that you could grab with a color puck or enter with RGB values? And let's not forget what you're scanning. Unless your processing is brand new, all your film will shift color. And if you went back to the original scene to capture true colors, you'd find that the ORIGINAL colors have shifted too. It's only a moment in time which is why we take pictures in the first place -- to freeze time. You'd be unhappy with an accurate representation of the scene. You want something that's pleasing to the eye and spurs the imagination. So, pump up the saturation and spin the hue. Bury the blacks and attenuate the whites. Sharpen as much as you can stand then make a print that's over the top. That's my philosophy. We're not doing science here where color matters. Then we'd put a chip chart in the shot and adjust from there. And you wouldn't like it because it would probably be boring.
Kyle, do you think that a 35mm and a 120 image of the same scene, on the same film, will look "the same". I've often heard that the two images should be identical with the exception of resolution. But 120 film always seemed a lot softer in terms of contrast in colors compared to 35mm.
IMO, there will definitely be a difference in the tones because of the larger surface area. From a far, yes, they should look very similar. But if you're printing or presenting larger, there will definitely be a difference.
Nice video Kyle. I'd like to have your opinion on Grain2Pixel (action for Photoshop) though.
Haven’t used that yet, Pascal. Sorry.
I imported my images scanned by The Darkroom. I didn't use Vuescan or NLP. Once in Lightroom, I made two edits. One in LR the other in PS. A curves adjustment and dust removal and that was it.I printed the images and I was gently reminded that my eyes have been digitized over 20 years. The prints looked like a film capture. I stepped outside and looked at my backyard. I did not see a
photoshop scene. I saw a billion year old sky, not a Kodak moment.
I’ve stayed at Holbrook’s wigwams more times than I can count, I know that old Ford Ranch Wagon! It is one of those oddball 1950s colors, turquoise, sort of a blue green. Definitely not mint green. I can check some other shots but an oldie of mine shows it pretty well. There are green neons overhead so if the office is closed and the overhead lights are off the car shoots as green. In skylight like you have in your shot the blue photographs more prominently. I’d have to look at my newer shots of the place to say for sure but I think the real color of the car is somewhere between the two examples, with NLP a little closer to correct. BTW, all these issues with color negative is no doubt why all the old print media art directors wanted photos on transparency. There still isn’t a one button and nail it solution for color negative color but NLP is the closest I’ve seen. Here is how my Canon 5D2 saw the wagon back in 2011 under a gawdawful mix of lighting: flic.kr/p/aDJoMe
If there's one person out there who would know the colour of this car, it's you Tim! 😁
@@KyleMcDougall It's definitely much closer to the NLP color in real life
Hello Kyle, amazing video! Very interesting to see the differences between both softwares. Do you know if any of these can remove that magenta cast present in old slides? I have a lot of my dad´s slides to photograph with my dslr, and individually editing each of them is not an easy task. Regards!
Since the LS-9000 is no longer made and expensive to acquire have you ever looked at the Plustek Optifilm 8200 Ai ? It’s only 35mm but it’s reasonably priced. Thanks.
I own the 8200ai, It is brilliant and blows my Epson v600 out of the water.
I've heard good things about the 8200. I may try to grab one to do a test between both.
NLP has a Cinestill colour preset. Might be worth seeing what that gives you.
I’m using the latest version actually and I don’t see it. Is it the “cinematic T or D”?
@@KeinanBossi Yeah so Cine-T is for like 800T, and Cine-D is for 50D
Negative Lab Pro 2.2 upgrade is out now with apparent HUGE upgrades, according to Nate.
Yep. Downloaded and looking forward to playing around with it.
As always Kyle, it has been an interesting and educational view. Ive been using Silverfast Ai almost exclusively because for one it was bundled with my scanner and two it has profiles for many B&W film stocks. I was unfamiliar with NLP and I must say it does makes the CineStill50D pop right away, and I like that stock when it comes to halos around specular highlights but like you I also have mixed feelings. Anyway my question here is do you have any experience using NLP on silver based films and if so is it just as brilliant for B&W silver as it is for colour negs? All best Kyle thx for putting this out there.
Thanks for watching. I've only used NLP for colour, so far.
What is that desktop monitor you got there? Super pretty looking.
Thank you
Scanning out of viewscan when you export for the NLP process are you exporting as a tiff? I saw Nate made a comment on another video that for NLP with tiff scan files he recommends using the "Tiff Scan Prep" (File -> Plugin Extras -> Tiff Scan Prep) which clones the original tiff and then does some gamma adjustments on it instead of doing the auto whitebalance off the negative edge like you do with the raw file from a DSLR scan. Then after that you crop/convert using NLP as usual.
I've been trying the "tiff scan prep" workflow using the un-adjusted tiffs out of Epson Scan and it definitely seems to produce a warmer file, at least with my portra scans. One thing I don't like with that workflow is the enormous tiffs produced. I've found that when I export with epson scan, if I use a tool like irfanview or imagemagick I can convert the raw scanned tiff to an LZW compressed tiff which is significantly smaller (380mb -> 45mb for example). LZW is lossless (no loss in image fidelity) and my processor is fast enough that the compressed file actually speeds things up significantly since the file sizes are so much smaller.
One thing I've learned after 10 years of scanning negatives is just when you think you have it figured out something else comes along to prove you wrong.
I've been exporting as a DNG, but this sounds interesting. I'll have to test it out.
It’d be interesting to see a SilverFast vs. NLP comparison.
Always enjoy your vids Kyle.. have you tried Grain2Pixel? I’ve been enjoying it recently - it’s a free photoshop plugin which I use to covert linear tiffs from Epson Scan. Scan needs to be pretty flat and a little under saturated to get the results I like.. but the results are great. Great colours and a nice workflow. Give it a go..
I haven't yet, but I'll check it out!
Such a good video so useful
Unfotunately there is no magic button that lets images appear on the screen as you want to. I only use VueScan and create preset/profiles for each film typoe according to my liking. In my opinion there is no need for Negative Lab Pro and then probably tweaking them further in lightroom. Too much software involved. Most people I know of would not consider diving into the settings of VueScan but it is not that difficult.
I tried different methods. Scanning raw, saving as TIFF, saving as JPG. Changing every raw image in photoshop by selecting the white point and what not.
Now I scan as TIFF and as JPG since I scan all images to review them. I only review them in JPG and I work with TIFF.
The selected photos I then edit in Capture One or light room. Each photo needs their own little attention anyway.
As of now, I only can recommend to create your very own profile to each film type you scan. Especially as a beginner.
The films I scan most of the time are:
Portra 400
Portra 160
Tmax 100
Tmax 400
Delta 100
Delta 400
Hp5+
Pancro 400
Plus some experimental films for me Pan F, Pan, Kosmo, and a few others.
Thanks for the information!
Is there a way to Show or tell how you tweak the settings in Vuescan?
Locking exposure in the Film Mask and then just with the Red/Green/Blue Brightness sliders?
When you adjust this for one picture it will not match up with all of the rest of the roll i would guess because of lightning situations?
Hope you read my comment. Very interessted in your workflow.
You can use SilverFast，It·s The Best！
I really wish reviews like this would include something like a MacBeth Color Checker chart in the photo so the actual neutral balance and color accuracy could be compared more objectively. “I like this one better” isn’t really fair to the developers of these color tools.
I definitely agree that for an exact test between the two, that would be most accurate, but I'the point of this video is to show how the two programs perform for my workflow. I don't shoot a macbeth chart for every roll, nor do many people, I'd imagine.
Kyle McDougall but the moment you started making subjective color judgments (“I like this better”) you crossed over from pure workflow evaluation to one of subjective color evaluation. Not sure if you stated from the outset what your goal was, but you made it about color and tone evaluation once you voiced your opinion about it. I enjoyed the video otherwise.
Kyle McDougall ....and I’m one of those weirdos that shoots a ColorChecker Passport at the beginning of each roll and whenever the light changes...for color neg film only. 😉
It's definitely something I've thought about. Having that reference would certainly make things easier.
FYI: I purchased VueScan's professional version being I wanted to scan negatives and have a IR scan. After purchasing I discovered their IR Scan won't work because my Canon 5600F doesn't have an infrared lamp in the scanner lid.
When you scanned the film, in the VueScan Color tab, the Negative Vendor/Brand/Type was left set to Generic Color Negative. But VueScan comes with film profiles, including Portra at least. I’m curious why you didn’t apply the VueScan film profiles at scan time; did you intend to compare straight generic conversions in both VueScan and NLP, or was there another reason? I was wondering how the VueScan colors vs NLP would look if the VueScan film profiles had been applied. (I have used VueScan for years and sometimes I do like the Generic conversion better than the VueScan film profile conversion, but was interested in your reason.)
I did like the video because I have not yet used Negative Lab Pro, and I’m interested in how it might be better/different than just VueScan plus Lightroom Classic, which is what I currently do.
I actually did a VueScan video about a year ago, where I showed my process, and I used to often use the built in profiles. But over time, for me, they became hit or miss, so my workflow changed to just using the generic profile to get a base image out of the program.
Kyle McDougall Great, I will watch the earlier VueScan video. Already it looks like we use VueScan in much the same way.
The Vuescan film profiles weren't even up to date 15 year sago. Has Ed ever redone them? I ended up using generic color negative.
What do you think about Silverfast Ai? Apart from the unfriendly user interface, you can create a complex color grading with great results sometimes.
Don't have any experience with it, but I know a lot of people do like it.
One virtue of Vuescan is that it will allow you to adapt its current operating system drivers to the original scanner management programs for scanners dating from the XP era. For example, this allows me to use the excellent Minolta XP software in current Windows as an alternative to running the old Minolta scanners in Vuescan alone. The full functionality of my old Minolta scanners is restored. Why bother? These older scanners are hugely better scanners than consumer scanners you can buy new today.
Mind giving some model numbers of these Minolta scanners? I'd be interested in picking up one.
@@AnchorTH The 35mm only top of the line was the 5400 II. The best medium format model name escapes me, but it is on a par with the Nikon 8000/9000 models, but a little lower on maximum dpi. Frankly, the intermediate so-called Duoscan models at about 2900 dpi were selling on ebay for around $75 at one time, but are now up to $300-400, I assume based on lack of modern competition. Unless you have a hefty wallet. picking up the biggest medium format model is probably going to cost well over $2,000 and the 5400 or 5400 II are going for around $1000, assuming that they have all of their parts and accessories. One issue in hunting down and forking over for these older scanners is that there are no new parts and few shops to do repairs, so they can be a risk. If you do not need medium format, a 5400 II is a rather special device, as well as the highest resolving consumer scanner ever sold.
Another great video! What’s a reasonable price would you say for a Nikon coolscan 9000 ED that’s new in the box still? Thanks
That's tough to say... the prices seem to vary. I paid $3000 CAD, new in box. But right now they seem to be going for more than that, used, on eBay.
Thank you
This was very informative. I'm trying to understand what a scanner does. When you use Vuescan or Silverfast or whatever scanning assist, are you really adjusting any hardware setting in the camera or are you just filtering the OUTPUT from the scanner. IOW, I would want the scanner to ingest as much raw information as it can and I'll do the dirty work in Lightroom. This moves the project along without fiddling and maybe loosing something in the software. Give me flat log and I'll crank up the rest. So my question is..is it your opinion that the scanner can't adjust its luminance or bit depth with hardware. Just with software on the way out. So scan flat into raw (big file) or TIFF then go to LR to correct. Help me out here.
and next week, we will do Silverfast :)
Looked up the meat market on Google. It's has a green roof.
Hi Kyle. Great video. Can i use a Raw file from Silverfast AI? Thanks
I prefer the view scan version of the red and teal cars.
How do you white balance the vuescan positives without the border?
Auto white balance. I’ve noticed no difference.
@@KyleMcDougall thanks Kyle!
If you scan with a digital camera does Negative Lab Pro helps to reduce scratches from the negative? like VueScan and Silver Fast?
Nope. Strictly conversions.
Same, I found NLP sometimes does a good job, but very unstable
Just a note on the car shot, the trees in the negative lab pro shot have gone a bit blue cast, too. Because of that, I'd expect that the VueScan conversion is probably more scene accurate.
Interesting as I kinda like the Vuescan ones a bit more - or rather they seemed more accurate? I agree though that Cinestill show was great! Curious how Vision3 50 in ECN2 may have looked in both. I tend to meander around the options, landing lately on Silverfast Negafix which lately has been very good (I think they improved it in some later updates). NLP is my goto if I feel like I'm not getting good results. For me the workflow for NLP can be a bit jarring with having to manage original copies + TIFFs. Minor gripe but it really adds up when dealing with things like 4x5.
For sure. I personally really like NLP, but yeah, my only critique is having to always make a TIFF copy to edit in LR. Just adds an extra step to the process and can get a bit sloppy if you're not careful.
@@KyleMcDougall I'll go on record as saying I am not careful and my process IS, as a result, quite sloppy :)
Sykil made a good point and it makes me wonder if that's why I've had better results with using NLP with Ektar at least in the past. I feel like Silverfast may have caught up a bit since but, especially for 120 and 4x5, I tend to expect I'll need to use NLP to get Ektar to look right.
FilmLab is another interesting contender. It is easy to use, I really like the workflow, and got some really nice results with it for quite a few shots with very little work. It feel apart for more challenging negatives (like night shots) where I noticed it tended towards broad color casts (like subtle colors in the details were getting removed). The subscription concept turned me off of it but I think it's worth a look, especially as it matures.
Might need to do a Lock Film Base for a more accurate scan on VueScan. Also, would you like to try my photoshop action? It only takes 2 clicks to get a corrected negative.
May i ask how you do your Photoshop Action?
What settings do you use when scanning positive for negative lab pro? Would scanning positive with Epson Scan be much different?
Hi Kyle, can Vuescan use the Digital ICE of the Nikon Coolscan to remove dust and scratches?
As they would say: Negative Pro is the way to go
It looks like vuesan us the best at giving you the negative with correct shades as they would appear if the negative were developed. And znLzp is trying to give u a warmer negative.
would really love NLP to come to adobe camera raw/bridge. the only reason I am not using it.
I wish that were something I could do! Bridge doesn't have a Plugin SDK - just Lightroom.
@@NatePhotographic ugh that's such a kick in the nuts. Lightrooms file management is a killer.
I'm curious how you feel about scanning raw negatives and converting manually with levels. I've been doing so recently with capture one after what feels like endless comparison between nlp and silver fast. In the time nlp does a conversion I can swap values with the levels tool then edit fairly normally from there. Seems like very few people do this anymore.
Do you scan as RAW?
Is it possible to scan as tiff? Or is the quality not good enough for such heavy editing?
@@WaRe1992 I always scanned raw, tiffs are fine they just handle a little different. I would choose raw when possible. Will be more flexible.
@@mattanderson354 thank you for your response.
Are you just inverting and settings the White Point in the Film mask?
And from there on just a little adjustment?
Not to be too cynical, but can’t scans using both softwares be made to appear more or less the same using intrascan and postscan processing and manipulation? Or am I missing something?
Yeah, pretty much what I said at the start of the video. All comes down to finding a workflow that is best for you.
NLP is great (if you shoot film and expect it to look digital)
Hi Kyle, thanks for a great video. I am having some quite large colour shifts when importing into NLP. When you create the file in Vuescan for Lightroom classic -NLP how do you export the file eg what colour space in Vuescan do you use? Do you make corrections eg colour balance etc or scan the image file with no colour changes. Thanks
Hey Garo, I'm using a camera to 'scan' with now, so no longer using Vuescan. But from what I can remember, I was using AdobeRGB on export. And then always using the eyedropper to balance off the film border before conversion.
@@KyleMcDougall Thanks Kyle, was going to do the same but sticking with my scanner as have everything set up. My resent scans were best and that was scanning with no colour grade, DNG TIFF, and Yes the eyedropper certainly makes a difference.
i prefer vuescan almost every time in this video. nlp looks like its trying to push the saturation which imo results in an image that is less true to life.
what about silverfast ?
Don't have any experience with it, sorry.
@@KyleMcDougall No problem :)
Does anyone know how he did that NLP conversion with the profile he selected? I thought you had to do that whole process where you need to keep some of the borders of the film to white balance first then crop and then convert? Kyle just had the cropped negative and converted it with a NLP profile, how's that possible?
He said i did that off camera :)
@@EMGKPhotographie off camera?
I balanced and cropped all of the images, but didn't show it in the video.
@@KyleMcDougall ah ok thanks so much! :)
try silverfast!!!!
Vuescan has very sophisticated but simple control systems for an accurate result, Why not using them ?
Vuescan has individual brand and ISO profiles for negative films, you have just to select them.
Vuescan has a film lead scanning function that uses the real mask color of the film to compensate specific development inconstancy of the film to be scanned.
i would take a 5 hours long video of this
all my scans come out blue or green, i've had one scan using negative lab pro that I liked so far. its frustrating lol
You typically get large colour shifts like that if your image is underexposed :)
NLP четко выставляет точку черного и белого. Если это делать в Фотошоп с помощью кривых, получается результат как в NLP
Но если вы умеете находить еще точку серого, то в ваших руках оказывается еще больше арсенал!
Silverfast >>>>>>
Are you getting paid by NLP? This feels biased. You don't bother to do even basic color balancing of the VueScan files in Lightroom, it makes it a pretty iffy comparison. I think that you can achieve nearly identical images with very little work here.
You forgot to show us how to generate a RAW file in VueScan.
cant really see which one is better as you cannot recall original colours, you need a colour reference card in the shot.