I'm glad you did a video on HEMA and got to do some sparring. I enjoy your videos showcasing Martial Arts that are not as well known and this was a good general representation of HEMA. It's been my hobby for 10 years, so I enjoy it when people make content that is minimally sensational and shows how fun and interesting it is. I hope you get to put on all the gear and fight with steel some day.
I notice the change of distance when adopting the Kali sticks. You began starting the exchange within the measure of the longsword rather than stepping into measure and then closing - cutting down the reach advantage of the longsword. (Both fighters are responsible for this - no shade thrown.)
In general: Am happy you did a video on my favourite hobby! In the video itself: It's telling that despite that you don't have prior HEMA experience, you still did very well in the sparring. Distance, timing, measure, and *the ability to squat and rise powerfully and at will* to make for great footwork are damn near king everywhere :D On kali two-weapons vs longsword: Online, there was a controversy based around HEMAists trashing the idea of fighting with two weapons at once. That got amended over time to two cutting weapons, then two long cutting weapons, because a HEMA manual was uncovered explicitly showing twin rapiers, and then exactly this - two short swords were shown to work *if your skill and coordination was godly and you trained it* !
Excellent video. As a Hema instructor (and Kali fan) i'm very happy to see such a nice introduction to Hema with , also, a friendly sparring. Those are so rare (and sparring in Kali is not very common on youtube wich is sad). Thank you !
I’m glad we got to cross the two styles in the manner we did. Kevin surprised us with the sticks. I wanna see how he would fight with sword and buckler.
When I was back in college, I saw these guys on the campus lawn in chain mail and padded medieval weaponry sparring. This was NOT the local LARP, but a true collection of HEMA practitioners, and I as a lifetime FMA practitioner wanted to see how I would fare vs things like Longsword, Sword and Board, etc. Turns out pretty F'n well. Doble Baston and Espada y Daga were my chosen tools every week, and every week was basically live-sparring, learning and comparing, and just general overall FUN. Some of my personal caveats: 1. Angles: FMA triangle footwork and general "panastas" concepts were GREAT against single weapons, but honestly REALLY shone against large shields, as long as one moves REALLY fast to get outside. Those suckers can be HEAVY and tend to block vision, so lil brown guys like me can use either daga or even live hand to grab it, use the momentum to fling the partner (and kinda throw oneself behind them) for a neat kidney shot. 2. Speed: Kevin's partner mentioned dealing with the initiative and re-engagement of the doble baston, especially if within range. Florete and abaniko hits can be really hard to deal with with a longer weapon, especially against TWO shorter weapons in range. But another speed factor I encounters was how unused my training partners were to arnis gap-closing. Hard to explain, and possibly made feasible by #1 and traping/locking drills from balintawak making me used to crowding and control, but getting into range was less of an issue than I originally thought. Yes, spears will ALWAYS suck, especially if only armed with single dagger.. but I can say with confidence that the adage "just keep them away" is harder against an aggressive FMA mindset. 3. Coordination: perhaps it was the limited availability of opponent Destreza players I had, but the ambidexterity and multi/simultaneous attacks from Sinawali-based FMA seemed to be of higher quality. I found my Destreza opponents would get into action/counteraction grooves more easily, allowing me to attack on half-beats. The weaving practice also allowed me to find "hidden" affordances that allow me to bind both their weapons with my one, leading to "accidental" but badass looking disarms or locks. I know for a fact these DO exist in double- blade HEMA practices, and YES I know of the influence of rapier/dagger European and Spanish fencing into Escrima. But somehow the execution tended to favour the FMA practicioner in most exchanges. Anyway, THANK YOU as always to Kevin for really stepping out there with ALL martial arts! The goal as always is learning and having fun together, and watching you charge in brought me back decades. My wife even saw me watching and said I hadn't smiled like THAT in years. So thank you, and best of training to ALL martial artists! 🤜🤛
@@micahthecomfortablehuman1324 I never looked up the specific style they mimic'd but it was when I first watched the training sequence in the first modern Zorro movie and saw the footwork pattern that I went "Hey now...." because I was well into FMA and Silat at the time. Granted geometry and physics is universal but the overlap was obvious . I think we all forget just how long humans have been fighting and would logically apply the same intelligence to it as we would to all other endeavors . I mean what good is being able to build bridges and castles if you can't defend them.
@@BradYaegerThe Zorro movie jumbled the two primary Spanish systems of Escrima Común and Verdadera Destreza together, but that's okay in my book because I train both and enjoy them. Escrima Común is definitely the one that influenced it. For starters, as the name implies, Escrima Común was favoured by the lower classes ever since Destreza made a splash after Carranza. Destreza shirks off-hand weapons and shields in favour of dynamic circular footwork and careful placement of angles and leverage with the sword alone. The Spanish sailors and settlers of the Philippines would probably predominantly practice Escrima Común, which is reflected in the fact that some people continue to call Kali "Esgrima". Destreza diestros explicitly refuted the term Escrima for their art, so if they had been the influence, it wouldn't be called that. Destreza was a rich man's style around the time the Philippines was colonized. In addition, the only book of Escrima Común (from Godinho) we have has chapters on espada y daga and duo espadas. For sword and dagger, it is unique in that Godinho recommends using the sword to entangle the enemy weapon and wound their arms with the dagger. And in the two swords, Godinho recommends whirling them with wide cuts to keep foes away from you. Now, I know for a fact that Kali predates Spanish colonialism of the region, so I am not at all suggesting that Escrima Común alone is the source of Kali's behaviors and techniques. Instead, I'm saying this to point out that Escrima and Kali are *compatible* with each other, and thus could have melded together far better than Destreza would.
I appreciate that as a shorter fencer he did exactly what he needed to do and stayed low while focusing on highguards. Made it hard for his opponent to do much. He was also smart to keep his guard unreadable when switching to two weapon fighting, he did well despite his weapons being shorter, lighter, and guardless.
Saw this video pop up in my feed and knew I had to see it. I've been very lucky this year, because just a month ago i met a member of the Dog Brothers, and he's been teaching me Kali. As soon as you started i immediately recognised so many of the techniques you were using. It really makes me grateful that i have an amazing teacher, and an even better friend to show me this incredible martial art.
Okay, we have to take into account that these are sparring weapons. If Kevin and his opponent were using real blades and no armor, would the techniques be the same? But, wow what a great comparison of techniques at the end! Awesome job everyone! Edit: Thanks for the explanations below. Hope I'm not coming off as critical or insulting of Kevin or his opponent. Both were cool. And Kevin's rapid attacks made me proud. Hope to see more FMA, HEMA, or other martial arts in the future!
Yes, they would be the same. In tournaments, going for the head and torso (fatal strikes in a real fight) is encouraged and rewards more points. So the training is the same.
There are some differences. The Nylon practice weapons they are using flex more and slide on each other more than steel weapons. Steel is more rigid and binds. This means that the weapons don't quite interact in the same way. Neither fighter can parry as effectively because the weapon can easily slide and free itself from the other weapon. Certain techniques such as deflecting the other person's blade by striking it don't work as well because of how much the nylon weapons flex, don't bind, then immediately return on line of attack. As for fighting with real weapons, this is very difficult to simulate. People behave differently and fence differently when there's something on the line. The best simulation I've seen is putting a high dollar buy in to a tournament where any touch puts you out immediately, and if fighters strike each other at the same time they both lose. Even very experienced and confident fencers fought very tentatively and conservatively.
@@mathhews95 I am personally on board with the movement in hema to consider ranking hand hits higher than we usually do for unarmoured fights. Hands are so fragile I personally see a hand hit as a seriously potential fight ender.
@@Jesse-b1vidk about scoring them higher but I just about got a knuckle broken a couple weeks ago doing single stick so I agree that they can be fight enders. At least, more often than not.
You are right, what we see is great sportmanship. In a real unarmored fight no one would fight in such an aggressive forward pushing way, because every hit could be fatal. No disrespect, great skills, great sportmanship and an interesting comparison of different fighting styles.
My two favorite weapons arts, showcased by respectful, talented practitioners. Thank you for this. Also, I'm really quite impressed by how you translated your kali footwork to longsword. It's not a huge jump but it's definitely cool to see.
Awesome video Kevin. I fight with the dog brothers and a heavy wooden rattan really changes the dynamics of the fight with the introduction of significant pain and fear. I’d really like to see a similar video to this with wooden rattans or metal training weapons if you ever get the chance. Either way you’re an awesome martial artist and I love your videos, oss
Oh it absolutely works. After a bit over a year of doing escrima I can also report that learning to coordinate two weapons properly is an insane amount of effort. My brain scrambles after an hour of training as if Id been trying to solve riddles nonstop. Kevin has demonstrated a ton of skill in this video.
Truth. ☝️ Both great comments. I will add that one of Japan's greatest swordman Myamoto Musashi, was a big promoter & example of the effectiveness of dual welding or fighting with 2 blades. Unlike many people in this modern age who say it doesn't work, Musashi had real life & death battlefield experience where his theories & ideas were rigorously tested.
If you look closer, the guy gets a number of cuts in. They're not all lethal by any means, but they would leave Kevin bleeding from a number of places, including the head. The speed is impressive and Kevin would most likely have beaten the guy if it was for real, but some of the damage he took would be pretty damn bad, simply because of the fact that the sword would actually be sharp. We'd be talking cut muscles and tendons, head wounds, cut hands... Also a sword cut to the hand/arm would make holding onto the stick a *_lot_* harder.
Great speed & distance management with the dual wielding. And, even when using the unfamiliar two handed weapon, Keven's use of measure was outstanding.
Impressive how you take the possitions to heart and use them in sparring. I am also impressed how well you picked up the moves in a short period of time. Nice job!
@ I got pregnant, almost died during pregnancy took me few years to get back to some what health, then we moved & the academy I trained at went out of biz, 12 yrs went by in that time, I was not in good shape, I saw a 10th planet near us, put my son in jiu jitsu I joined 6 mths later to help him learn….its been almost 4 years started back into Muay Thai year ago….life is strange how some things just come back around guess its meant to be. 😁
@77stephani77 I just started learning Kali. They came from wrestling, then went into BJJ and Muay Tai. Could go because I just had a baby boy so I heard about someone offering and decided to check it out. Putting everything together is such a beautiful journey. Hopefully, you can get back into it or incorporate it into your BJJ
You know what to do now Kevin...Ultimate Historical Weapons Championship. Wushu vs Wing Chun vs HEMA (German, Italian, Roman Empire) vs Fencing vs Kenjutsu/Kendo vs FMA
This is great. I actually joined the Saber Legion just so I could spar (most FMA guys in my area were not keen on sparring). I did find it challenging to use only 1 long weapon and the rules did not allow for checking with the other hand (both hands on the saber). One time the organizer let me use 2 short sabers against his one, long saber, and it did not go well for him. It just wasn’t fair for him.
@@regulus6773 ALL comes down to the wielder my man. What they have plays a part, like I prefer to use double sword against shields to try and overwhelm them, while using a staff is easier for them to block and control, but it's not the full story. I've done Kali, HEMA and more, and it's all the person not the style. One of my most one-sided losses was going double sword vs a guy with a single long-handled sword. I was barraging him with strikes, but he kept a cool head and just blocked or evaded them then counter attacked and bonked me whenever he had a clear shot. It was like *Ratatat-BONK-Ratatata-BONK-Ratata-BONK*. What we saw in this video is that the HEMA guy wasn't used to flurries of strikes. You can see him turning his head away or trying to walk out of the barrage. I've been there so I recognised it, everything is happening in your face and your brain just says 'nope' and you lock up. But that's a skill issue, if he fought against that style more often he wouldn't have that reaction, and would instantly fight better without having to change his style at all.
@@regulus6773really depends on context. spear dominates in general, but it’s also hard to fit through a tavern door. the best weapon is the one that fits your needs.
He didn't look like a beginner when he was sparring with a longsword. Sure, he wasn't wielding it like an expert, but he had a decent understanding of range, and footwork, and he did a few things beginners wouldn't even consider, such as disengages and switching between one- and two-handed grips. Then of course, once he had his favoured weapons out, it was a difference like night and day... BTW: I haven't practiced either style. I did something closer to kong fu and I used to spar with blades similar to the two options in the last sparring session. I can't say that I'm as good as either of these fighters, but I can make some observations: 1) Range is usually the deciding factor even above skill. If you have a spear and the other a one-handed sword, you win 99 out of 100 times. 2) This would obviously change with armour, and to some degree also with secondary weapons, such as a shield, or as I practiced with a second sword. 3) You can't really block a fully committed blow with a greatsword by using your one-handed sword(s) and you'll be at a disadvantage until you managed to dodge the first attack. Then, you can press one of your weapons against his so that he cannot redeploy it and you close in and do what you want to him... Suddenly, the understanding of ranges and angles becomes essential. 4) Since I never did Kali, I use the swords far more static. I usually attack and defend at the same time, or use one sword for feints, or binds. Naturally, people expect a right-handed person to predominantly use his right sword for offense, but that won't help much...
This is great 👍 I've been curious about how the styles of fighting would interact with each other! This might be further down the line, but if there's ever a chance, do you think you could spar with them again with kali/Filipino sparring-safe blades? Or some good stand-ins for them?
I've experienced kendo vs arnis (I was doing kendo) and yeah fighting against someone with two weapons is very difficult They can use one to block my attack and then enter range and hit with the other Just that... Having swung a real sword before, I know it feels very different with the weight distribution I really feel like real short swords cannot be swung that deftly The same can be said with kendo and a real katana Doing kendo moves with a real katana, and doing arnis moves with a real bolo or whatever shortsword can be quite taxing on the wrist This is why I feel like HEMA has the best approach in practicing swordfighting They try to replicate that weight distribution with their practice swords, hence their body knows to be careful with their wrists In my experience with Kendo & Arnis, this has never really been considered... And Kendo is way too stuck in its traditions, it doesn't want to change
those were some really great exchanges with enough time to display reasonable feedback using controlled technique. if you watch sport filipino stick fighting it looks nothing this - just two ppl flailing their arms trying to wack one another without much discernible technique. ive also seen videos of balintawak duels in the backstreets of the philippines that last several seconds involving advanced practitioners actually using discernible techniques and strategy - but that’s the reality of how fast it can end. i much prefer to watch these interactions like what i saw in this friendly humble exchange any day of the week 👍
Leg attacks are inherently risky and require set up. Generally attacks made against the legs require you to sacrifice your guard on your upper body and allow your opponent to attack your head. The distance between the two is also unequal, so the person attacking a leg without a set up is also attacking a target that is further away, while their opponent can strike their head which is closer. They just need to step back and attack the head when an attack comes for their leg. This shows up in almost every HEMA source about longswords and several historical manuals from Asia. There are ways to safely strike at the leg, but they almost all involve positioning and setups.
Your comment made me want to go through and tally up all the strikes to the legs. I only counted what seemed to be intentional. 5:59 6:25 8:32 9:44 10:09 10:20 11:19 11:24 12:09
The moments you're referencing are good examples. The first he engages and draws the opponents guard high and cuts low while his opponent is still on the defensive then withdraws covering his head, good setup. The second is what's called a Giezlyn, where you attack their leg at maximal range so they can't follow up with a simultaneous attack to the head as easily. The third is with bucklers, which make leg attacks easier since you can engage their weapon with the buckler and attack the leg. The fourth is a classic suicidal trade from Kevin where he strikes low and gets his head cut off on the double. The fifth is another Giezlyn but, closer and a little riskier. The sixth is actually a good low attack from Kevin, he crouches instead of leans to make a line on the leg with a thrust. The only disadvantage here is it takes time to get out of that position. The seventh is a very good attack from Kevin, he draws the sword high while his opponent was neutral the strikes the leg. The seventh is just a messy exchange where no one is really controlling or covering lines and Kevin could have gotten his hand cut off before the leg shot he lucked into. The eighth is another Geizlyn with a leg slip from Kevin. Some of these were good safe set ups, some were tricks, some were messy exchanges where neither person was in control, and some basic mistakes from not doing much weapon sparring that can easily be correct. Even experienced fencers make bad trades or covers sometimes.
I wonder how effective wing chun sword technics would do. Also, im interested in doing Wing chun but have no place around my area. Are there any online classes that are good that you know of?
@KevinLeeVlog im going to try one out. It's a month free trial type thing. I'll let you know if it's any good. I have done wing chun for about 2 years before i moved.... so i kinda know what to look for in a good program, but do you have any advice?
Not saying that sticks can't do damage, just that the lethality is much lower than a long blade. Having had authentic rattan staves before and having worked in a prison, those rattan staves while hard and durable, are very light and will need a good wind up to do significant damage. Plus I've encountered inmates that were able to fight through the long, wooden batons we had. The metal ones did more damage to bone. Once again, takes a bit of a swing to do fight stopping damage (outside of a clean head shot), versus a weapon that can do lethal damage with the slightest of touches.
in transliterations to english the german ch sound is supposed to be shown as kh, but few people will know that so its not as helpful as it should be unfortunately
That's what a buckler is, it's the dagger of shields. Like a dagger it's not a battlefield weapon, but something you can wear on your belt to balance out your rapier and grab quick for fights in the street.
vor - nach isnt pronounced like "Vor and knock" , but like "for and nakhh" (the V sounds like a letter F and the A as in 'calm' and the ch sounds like when those israelis say khhhamas)
... I do not think the longsword was used properly against dual viewlding weapons, the Kali guy does not have any other chance than get closer but there was any attempt from the HEMA guy to keep distance when attacked. I would have expected one hand thrusts with upside movement (there was plenty of chances to do so).
Longsword guy clearly tried to be technical and snappy for the video, but it really looks like these 'sticks' would not stop an energetic oberhau, more so if both had steel.
there is a channel of kenjutsu channel called let's ask seki-sensei, i think the sensei there would be happy if you or the hema guys there come and exchange techniques with him :p
hey I am early! Hema will win depending on the wepon. If they only have a dagger they can be as good as they want but their chances are slim, a spear in the hands of a noob on the other hand can best almost everyone with just a bit of luck.
Sword vs stick, Hemaist would have won that. The afterblows wouldn't have mattered as the oppoinet with sticks would have died. Hema team was being kind.
@@konstantin3374 I mean it technically is when every warrior has the skill of a elite hand-to-hand combatant. At that point every warrior you have is a precious resource.
@@KevinLeeVlog Well me too (I am in Kali for 3months now), but you know the saying. Devil is hidden in details. So there is plenty of small concepts witch are completly different. For me I like that they have even sticky hands.
hehe of course those swords are probably at least 1\5th the wait of a real sword , every time the leg is sitting there out in the open asking to get smacked
The HEMA guy clearly won big time. I don’t know what everyone is seeing in the comments by praising the stick fighting though the evidence is clear, but if this had been real, those sticks did nothing. The sword man did shoulder and kneecap damage. In the ancient era this would be a done deal. Good video Kevin but HEMA won. The first few shots to shoulder and kneecap would’ve already incapacitated you. After that, the guys were just being nice to you because you gave them a platform and held back.
@ no it’s not that. He got him in the shoulder swiftly and accurately, and then the kneecap? Game over. The rest is Kevin being hero worshiped. He’s great I love his show, but the truth is the truth.
@@TheMaverickunleashed Kevin did fine. The longsword scored a few lethal blows that would have stopped it, but Kevin did great for it being his first time. The kali sticks can also represent shorter swords.
@ in this they didn’t represent shorter swords. There are foam weapons for that. But I like the fact that you saw what I saw. And by the way read all my comments, what you said is exactly what I’ve been saying all this time. That the Longsword won, but that Kevin did good. And that he’s talented. Check out my other comments.
Kevin's response to me disarming him was a chef's kiss. I'm glad he replayed that in slow motion because it was highly impressive the way he switched hands and attempted to counter.
As someone who's done hema for years, I don't think the hema guys did themselves any favours. The guy in the demo talks about hanging and winding, but in the sparring it's all jumpy, single-intent stuff. Then, longsword tends to fair poorly in asymmetrical match-ups, I think sword and buckler- or even better, messer and buckler- would have given a better showing against the paired weapons.
@joadams8022. It's the same with close range MA for self defense when it comes to sparring. Mainly it's for self defense & requires closing the distance.
@@MustAfaalik It's the opposite reason in hema- this is very tournament- focused to my eyes. For actual self defence, you'd want to manage the distance and control the other sword before closing in, rather than gambling on leaping in with one strike. The weird back-calf-parallel-to-the-floor is a tell- great for leaping in, not so good for moving around.
Nice video, it was worth the wait. If you're more interested in HEMA, check out the Battle of the Nations (the hema world championship), it's pretty interesting.
I'm sorry, but the Battle of Nations is not a Hema world championship. It is a world championship but not for Hema. It's the world championship for buhurt/hmb/Acl or Acs. It's two very different groups, with some tiny overlap. Just because they wear medieval armor doesn't mean they do Hema
Best thing i know of, is CombatCon, is a dynamic event that brings together newcomers, experts, and highly skilled professionals to learn, practice, and celebrate Western and European Martial Arts. Share knowledge across disciplines, pursue your passion, and find your next obsession with an inclusive community of students, instructors, fighters, and enthusiasts. Test your skills against combatants from around the world, study and train with leading experts, and immerse yourself in a weekend of fun, fighting and learning.
Other than Combat Con You probably only come in contact with in Czech and Slovakia, they are crazy and very diligent in HEMA things. It think even over 50 years of experience meanwhile. Their sword fighting is almost on another level, except that you cannot take your sword into the disco with you
@@regulus6773 All you need is to move fast enough. That's exactly how the native Filipino scalped the Spanish. The Hema guy was honest enough to say he was overwhelm.
@@regulus6773 The Hema guy did a count of 180++ from Kevin. And was clearly overwhelmed once the distance was closed, & very quickly at that, due to Kevin's familiarity with long blade & sparing in Kali.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think?
I'm glad you did a video on HEMA and got to do some sparring. I enjoy your videos showcasing Martial Arts that are not as well known and this was a good general representation of HEMA. It's been my hobby for 10 years, so I enjoy it when people make content that is minimally sensational and shows how fun and interesting it is. I hope you get to put on all the gear and fight with steel some day.
Awesome! :-)
Is there any MA you're not great at?
I prefere Kali
I notice the change of distance when adopting the Kali sticks. You began starting the exchange within the measure of the longsword rather than stepping into measure and then closing - cutting down the reach advantage of the longsword.
(Both fighters are responsible for this - no shade thrown.)
In general: Am happy you did a video on my favourite hobby!
In the video itself: It's telling that despite that you don't have prior HEMA experience, you still did very well in the sparring. Distance, timing, measure, and *the ability to squat and rise powerfully and at will* to make for great footwork are damn near king everywhere :D
On kali two-weapons vs longsword: Online, there was a controversy based around HEMAists trashing the idea of fighting with two weapons at once. That got amended over time to two cutting weapons, then two long cutting weapons, because a HEMA manual was uncovered explicitly showing twin rapiers, and then exactly this - two short swords were shown to work *if your skill and coordination was godly and you trained it* !
Thank you for coming to play with us! We are more than happy to share our passion for HEMA with you and your audience!
Love this exchange! I'm an FMA practitioner and am starting HEMA too. I have respect for both arts.
it was probably my favourite exchange ive seen so far on youtube
Thank you for giving HEMA a platform.
It was fun!!!
Excellent video. As a Hema instructor (and Kali fan) i'm very happy to see such a nice introduction to Hema with , also, a friendly sparring. Those are so rare (and sparring in Kali is not very common on youtube wich is sad). Thank you !
I’m glad we got to cross the two styles in the manner we did. Kevin surprised us with the sticks. I wanna see how he would fight with sword and buckler.
When I was back in college, I saw these guys on the campus lawn in chain mail and padded medieval weaponry sparring. This was NOT the local LARP, but a true collection of HEMA practitioners, and I as a lifetime FMA practitioner wanted to see how I would fare vs things like Longsword, Sword and Board, etc.
Turns out pretty F'n well.
Doble Baston and Espada y Daga were my chosen tools every week, and every week was basically live-sparring, learning and comparing, and just general overall FUN. Some of my personal caveats:
1. Angles: FMA triangle footwork and general "panastas" concepts were GREAT against single weapons, but honestly REALLY shone against large shields, as long as one moves REALLY fast to get outside. Those suckers can be HEAVY and tend to block vision, so lil brown guys like me can use either daga or even live hand to grab it, use the momentum to fling the partner (and kinda throw oneself behind them) for a neat kidney shot.
2. Speed: Kevin's partner mentioned dealing with the initiative and re-engagement of the doble baston, especially if within range. Florete and abaniko hits can be really hard to deal with with a longer weapon, especially against TWO shorter weapons in range. But another speed factor I encounters was how unused my training partners were to arnis gap-closing. Hard to explain, and possibly made feasible by #1 and traping/locking drills from balintawak making me used to crowding and control, but getting into range was less of an issue than I originally thought. Yes, spears will ALWAYS suck, especially if only armed with single dagger.. but I can say with confidence that the adage "just keep them away" is harder against an aggressive FMA mindset.
3. Coordination: perhaps it was the limited availability of opponent Destreza players I had, but the ambidexterity and multi/simultaneous attacks from Sinawali-based FMA seemed to be of higher quality. I found my Destreza opponents would get into action/counteraction grooves more easily, allowing me to attack on half-beats. The weaving practice also allowed me to find "hidden" affordances that allow me to bind both their weapons with my one, leading to "accidental" but badass looking disarms or locks. I know for a fact these DO exist in double- blade HEMA practices, and YES I know of the influence of rapier/dagger European and Spanish fencing into Escrima. But somehow the execution tended to favour the FMA practicioner in most exchanges.
Anyway, THANK YOU as always to Kevin for really stepping out there with ALL martial arts! The goal as always is learning and having fun together, and watching you charge in brought me back decades. My wife even saw me watching and said I hadn't smiled like THAT in years. So thank you, and best of training to ALL martial artists!
🤜🤛
this is what ive been waiting for ever since i discovered hema
What's cool is there are Spanish sword fighting influences in Kali
@@BradYaeger yesssss
@KevinLeeVlog you should try out Destreza to see those specific influences. Spanish Destreza is very different from the German and Italian styles.
For the Aramusha, they wield a set of such swords, using them in the infamous dual-blade style that only few can master.
@@micahthecomfortablehuman1324 I never looked up the specific style they mimic'd but it was when I first watched the training sequence in the first modern Zorro movie and saw the footwork pattern that I went "Hey now...." because I was well into FMA and Silat at the time. Granted geometry and physics is universal but the overlap was obvious . I think we all forget just how long humans have been fighting and would logically apply the same intelligence to it as we would to all other endeavors . I mean what good is being able to build bridges and castles if you can't defend them.
@@BradYaegerThe Zorro movie jumbled the two primary Spanish systems of Escrima Común and Verdadera Destreza together, but that's okay in my book because I train both and enjoy them.
Escrima Común is definitely the one that influenced it. For starters, as the name implies, Escrima Común was favoured by the lower classes ever since Destreza made a splash after Carranza. Destreza shirks off-hand weapons and shields in favour of dynamic circular footwork and careful placement of angles and leverage with the sword alone.
The Spanish sailors and settlers of the Philippines would probably predominantly practice Escrima Común, which is reflected in the fact that some people continue to call Kali "Esgrima". Destreza diestros explicitly refuted the term Escrima for their art, so if they had been the influence, it wouldn't be called that. Destreza was a rich man's style around the time the Philippines was colonized.
In addition, the only book of Escrima Común (from Godinho) we have has chapters on espada y daga and duo espadas. For sword and dagger, it is unique in that Godinho recommends using the sword to entangle the enemy weapon and wound their arms with the dagger. And in the two swords, Godinho recommends whirling them with wide cuts to keep foes away from you.
Now, I know for a fact that Kali predates Spanish colonialism of the region, so I am not at all suggesting that Escrima Común alone is the source of Kali's behaviors and techniques. Instead, I'm saying this to point out that Escrima and Kali are *compatible* with each other, and thus could have melded together far better than Destreza would.
I appreciate that as a shorter fencer he did exactly what he needed to do and stayed low while focusing on highguards. Made it hard for his opponent to do much. He was also smart to keep his guard unreadable when switching to two weapon fighting, he did well despite his weapons being shorter, lighter, and guardless.
He got soooooo many tags in with those kali sticks. It really did highlight the difference in approach to CQC with weapons.
Saw this video pop up in my feed and knew I had to see it. I've been very lucky this year, because just a month ago i met a member of the Dog Brothers, and he's been teaching me Kali. As soon as you started i immediately recognised so many of the techniques you were using. It really makes me grateful that i have an amazing teacher, and an even better friend to show me this incredible martial art.
Great stuff
Entertaining & fun to see how much really goes into the art of sword fighting
@@spiffnut420 thank you!!
Kevin you are awesome with weapons. Please do a video on escrima sticks
Hahaha. Thanks!
Impressed by Kevin, sincerely! sharp timing and mastery of movements, we want to see more sparring of him !
Thank you for watching!
Okay, we have to take into account that these are sparring weapons. If Kevin and his opponent were using real blades and no armor, would the techniques be the same? But, wow what a great comparison of techniques at the end! Awesome job everyone!
Edit: Thanks for the explanations below. Hope I'm not coming off as critical or insulting of Kevin or his opponent. Both were cool. And Kevin's rapid attacks made me proud. Hope to see more FMA, HEMA, or other martial arts in the future!
Yes, they would be the same. In tournaments, going for the head and torso (fatal strikes in a real fight) is encouraged and rewards more points. So the training is the same.
There are some differences. The Nylon practice weapons they are using flex more and slide on each other more than steel weapons.
Steel is more rigid and binds. This means that the weapons don't quite interact in the same way. Neither fighter can parry as effectively because the weapon can easily slide and free itself from the other weapon. Certain techniques such as deflecting the other person's blade by striking it don't work as well because of how much the nylon weapons flex, don't bind, then immediately return on line of attack.
As for fighting with real weapons, this is very difficult to simulate. People behave differently and fence differently when there's something on the line. The best simulation I've seen is putting a high dollar buy in to a tournament where any touch puts you out immediately, and if fighters strike each other at the same time they both lose. Even very experienced and confident fencers fought very tentatively and conservatively.
@@mathhews95 I am personally on board with the movement in hema to consider ranking hand hits higher than we usually do for unarmoured fights. Hands are so fragile I personally see a hand hit as a seriously potential fight ender.
@@Jesse-b1vidk about scoring them higher but I just about got a knuckle
broken a couple weeks ago doing single stick so I agree that they can be fight enders. At least, more often than not.
You are right, what we see is great sportmanship. In a real unarmored fight no one would fight in such an aggressive forward pushing way, because every hit could be fatal.
No disrespect, great skills, great sportmanship and an interesting comparison of different fighting styles.
My two favorite weapons arts, showcased by respectful, talented practitioners. Thank you for this.
Also, I'm really quite impressed by how you translated your kali footwork to longsword. It's not a huge jump but it's definitely cool to see.
that first sparing showcase was mighty impresive! real deal for sure
💯💯💯!!
Awesome video Kevin. I fight with the dog brothers and a heavy wooden rattan really changes the dynamics of the fight with the introduction of significant pain and fear. I’d really like to see a similar video to this with wooden rattans or metal training weapons if you ever get the chance. Either way you’re an awesome martial artist and I love your videos, oss
@@tylerherbert5219 thank you!! I love the dog brothers stuff!!!
Nice stuff as always!!
Thank you!
Bro whoever said two weapon fighting didnt work was full of it. You were doing so much at once that the other guy couldn't keep up
Oh it absolutely works. After a bit over a year of doing escrima I can also report that learning to coordinate two weapons properly is an insane amount of effort. My brain scrambles after an hour of training as if Id been trying to solve riddles nonstop. Kevin has demonstrated a ton of skill in this video.
Truth. ☝️ Both great comments. I will add that one of Japan's greatest swordman Myamoto Musashi, was a big promoter & example of the effectiveness of dual welding or fighting with 2 blades. Unlike many people in this modern age who say it doesn't work, Musashi had real life & death battlefield experience where his theories & ideas were rigorously tested.
I don't think anyone said it doesn't work. It's just not optimal. Shields are just a better off hand weapon
If you look closer, the guy gets a number of cuts in. They're not all lethal by any means, but they would leave Kevin bleeding from a number of places, including the head.
The speed is impressive and Kevin would most likely have beaten the guy if it was for real, but some of the damage he took would be pretty damn bad, simply because of the fact that the sword would actually be sharp. We'd be talking cut muscles and tendons, head wounds, cut hands...
Also a sword cut to the hand/arm would make holding onto the stick a *_lot_* harder.
Dual welding has existed for centuries in every corner of the world
Great speed & distance management with the dual wielding. And, even when using the unfamiliar two handed weapon, Keven's use of measure was outstanding.
I could tell you guys were having a blast! Great stuff.
Impressive how you take the possitions to heart and use them in sparring. I am also impressed how well you picked up the moves in a short period of time. Nice job!
LOL I love it! Dude is showing Kev how dangerous and subtle movements can kill and Kev says "I wonna jump in!" LOL
I trained Kali for 6 years, love it miss it….(train Jiu Jitsu & Muay Thai now) this was awesome…thx
What made you change
@ I got pregnant, almost died during pregnancy took me few years to get back to some what health, then we moved & the academy I trained at went out of biz, 12 yrs went by in that time, I was not in good shape, I saw a 10th planet near us, put my son in jiu jitsu I joined 6 mths later to help him learn….its been almost 4 years started back into Muay Thai year ago….life is strange how some things just come back around guess its meant to be. 😁
@77stephani77 I just started learning Kali. They came from wrestling, then went into BJJ and Muay Tai. Could go because I just had a baby boy so I heard about someone offering and decided to check it out. Putting everything together is such a beautiful journey. Hopefully, you can get back into it or incorporate it into your BJJ
10:10: I liked that void with the leg switching into a long lunge
When Kevin started swinging those sticks, wooo, I got chills! Kevin is a boss!
"nice, I got killed!" great way to have fun learning something that would've had dire consequences some time ago.
That capture with the hilt is basically a kwan sao to lop sao. The principles are very wing chun-ish, they're just happening at different ranges.
Yesssss!
You know what to do now Kevin...Ultimate Historical Weapons Championship. Wushu vs Wing Chun vs HEMA (German, Italian, Roman Empire) vs Fencing vs Kenjutsu/Kendo vs FMA
That was an absolute treat to watch.
DURCHWINDEN MENTIONED LETS GOOO
This is great. I actually joined the Saber Legion just so I could spar (most FMA guys in my area were not keen on sparring). I did find it challenging to use only 1 long weapon and the rules did not allow for checking with the other hand (both hands on the saber). One time the organizer let me use 2 short sabers against his one, long saber, and it did not go well for him. It just wasn’t fair for him.
Two weapons are always going to be better than one.
@@regulus6773 ALL comes down to the wielder my man. What they have plays a part, like I prefer to use double sword against shields to try and overwhelm them, while using a staff is easier for them to block and control, but it's not the full story. I've done Kali, HEMA and more, and it's all the person not the style.
One of my most one-sided losses was going double sword vs a guy with a single long-handled sword. I was barraging him with strikes, but he kept a cool head and just blocked or evaded them then counter attacked and bonked me whenever he had a clear shot. It was like *Ratatat-BONK-Ratatata-BONK-Ratata-BONK*.
What we saw in this video is that the HEMA guy wasn't used to flurries of strikes. You can see him turning his head away or trying to walk out of the barrage. I've been there so I recognised it, everything is happening in your face and your brain just says 'nope' and you lock up. But that's a skill issue, if he fought against that style more often he wouldn't have that reaction, and would instantly fight better without having to change his style at all.
@@regulus6773really depends on context. spear dominates in general, but it’s also hard to fit through a tavern door. the best weapon is the one that fits your needs.
He didn't look like a beginner when he was sparring with a longsword. Sure, he wasn't wielding it like an expert, but he had a decent understanding of range, and footwork, and he did a few things beginners wouldn't even consider, such as disengages and switching between one- and two-handed grips. Then of course, once he had his favoured weapons out, it was a difference like night and day...
BTW: I haven't practiced either style. I did something closer to kong fu and I used to spar with blades similar to the two options in the last sparring session. I can't say that I'm as good as either of these fighters, but I can make some observations:
1) Range is usually the deciding factor even above skill. If you have a spear and the other a one-handed sword, you win 99 out of 100 times.
2) This would obviously change with armour, and to some degree also with secondary weapons, such as a shield, or as I practiced with a second sword.
3) You can't really block a fully committed blow with a greatsword by using your one-handed sword(s) and you'll be at a disadvantage until you managed to dodge the first attack. Then, you can press one of your weapons against his so that he cannot redeploy it and you close in and do what you want to him... Suddenly, the understanding of ranges and angles becomes essential.
4) Since I never did Kali, I use the swords far more static. I usually attack and defend at the same time, or use one sword for feints, or binds. Naturally, people expect a right-handed person to predominantly use his right sword for offense, but that won't help much...
sword/HEMA youtube is going to spend the next two weeks reacting to this video lol
This is great 👍 I've been curious about how the styles of fighting would interact with each other!
This might be further down the line, but if there's ever a chance, do you think you could spar with them again with kali/Filipino sparring-safe blades? Or some good stand-ins for them?
Personally, I'm not running at anyone with a sword. And I've done modern Arnis.
😂 me too
Well done young man ⚔️☘️
Do a video of Silat and its techniques.
Yessss
I've experienced kendo vs arnis (I was doing kendo) and yeah fighting against someone with two weapons is very difficult
They can use one to block my attack and then enter range and hit with the other
Just that... Having swung a real sword before, I know it feels very different with the weight distribution
I really feel like real short swords cannot be swung that deftly
The same can be said with kendo and a real katana
Doing kendo moves with a real katana, and doing arnis moves with a real bolo or whatever shortsword can be quite taxing on the wrist
This is why I feel like HEMA has the best approach in practicing swordfighting
They try to replicate that weight distribution with their practice swords, hence their body knows to be careful with their wrists
In my experience with Kendo & Arnis, this has never really been considered...
And Kendo is way too stuck in its traditions, it doesn't want to change
those were some really great exchanges with enough time to display reasonable feedback using controlled technique. if you watch sport filipino stick fighting it looks nothing this - just two ppl flailing their arms trying to wack one another without much discernible technique. ive also seen videos of balintawak duels in the backstreets of the philippines that last several seconds involving advanced practitioners actually using discernible techniques and strategy - but that’s the reality of how fast it can end. i much prefer to watch these interactions like what i saw in this friendly humble exchange any day of the week 👍
❤ great content 👌
Thank you!
That was awesome . I play with two blade , Kali.
Need more!
Not to go off topic, but Keith has BEAUTIFUL skin. Just FLAWLESS.
The way i handle dual weapons is point at the hand that's closest.
Great video, it looks like fun! However, is there a reason why neither went for leg attacks?
Leg attacks are inherently risky and require set up. Generally attacks made against the legs require you to sacrifice your guard on your upper body and allow your opponent to attack your head. The distance between the two is also unequal, so the person attacking a leg without a set up is also attacking a target that is further away, while their opponent can strike their head which is closer. They just need to step back and attack the head when an attack comes for their leg. This shows up in almost every HEMA source about longswords and several historical manuals from Asia. There are ways to safely strike at the leg, but they almost all involve positioning and setups.
Your comment made me want to go through and tally up all the strikes to the legs. I only counted what seemed to be intentional.
5:59
6:25
8:32
9:44
10:09
10:20
11:19
11:24
12:09
The moments you're referencing are good examples. The first he engages and draws the opponents guard high and cuts low while his opponent is still on the defensive then withdraws covering his head, good setup. The second is what's called a Giezlyn, where you attack their leg at maximal range so they can't follow up with a simultaneous attack to the head as easily. The third is with bucklers, which make leg attacks easier since you can engage their weapon with the buckler and attack the leg. The fourth is a classic suicidal trade from Kevin where he strikes low and gets his head cut off on the double.
The fifth is another Giezlyn but, closer and a little riskier. The sixth is actually a good low attack from Kevin, he crouches instead of leans to make a line on the leg with a thrust. The only disadvantage here is it takes time to get out of that position. The seventh is a very good attack from Kevin, he draws the sword high while his opponent was neutral the strikes the leg. The seventh is just a messy exchange where no one is really controlling or covering lines and Kevin could have gotten his hand cut off before the leg shot he lucked into. The eighth is another Geizlyn with a leg slip from Kevin.
Some of these were good safe set ups, some were tricks, some were messy exchanges where neither person was in control, and some basic mistakes from not doing much weapon sparring that can easily be correct. Even experienced fencers make bad trades or covers sometimes.
Can you do a video of Kali vs Krabi Krabong sparring?
Kevin have you tried Hwa Rang Do yet? That could be an interesting video.
I wonder how effective wing chun sword technics would do. Also, im interested in doing Wing chun but have no place around my area. Are there any online classes that are good that you know of?
I don’t unfortunately. But I think it would be fun to try out a Wing Chun sparring video!!
@KevinLeeVlog im going to try one out. It's a month free trial type thing. I'll let you know if it's any good. I have done wing chun for about 2 years before i moved.... so i kinda know what to look for in a good program, but do you have any advice?
How similar are kali sticks to butterfly knives as far as technique is concerned?
Keep in mind, those sticks are way less lethal than a blade is. You can better take a pitter patter stick shot than a blade slice or stab.
Not saying that sticks can't do damage, just that the lethality is much lower than a long blade. Having had authentic rattan staves before and having worked in a prison, those rattan staves while hard and durable, are very light and will need a good wind up to do significant damage. Plus I've encountered inmates that were able to fight through the long, wooden batons we had. The metal ones did more damage to bone. Once again, takes a bit of a swing to do fight stopping damage (outside of a clean head shot), versus a weapon that can do lethal damage with the slightest of touches.
as a german this butchering of Vorn and Nach is excruciating it’s more like Fawn and Nagh, yet i don’t know how to describe the harsh german ch
in transliterations to english the german ch sound is supposed to be shown as kh, but few people will know that so its not as helpful as it should be unfortunately
@5:51 he could move the opposite direction and get out of that position
@7:27 I'm not seeingthe utilization of tripping of shoving 🤔
❤❤❤❤so cool
Why is the buckler so small?
Looks like a normal sized buckler to me
That's what a buckler is, it's the dagger of shields. Like a dagger it's not a battlefield weapon, but something you can wear on your belt to balance out your rapier and grab quick for fights in the street.
Cone of defense
Fighting Kevin with bladeds is a bit like sticking your hand into a blender. :D
4:00 that is ikkyo in Aikido
Anyone know of a hema school in Tennessee
There’s one in East TN
I think there’s one in Johnson, TN but the biggest one is in Nashville.
There's one in Nashville, Knoxville and Johnson City. Chattanooga is going to have one soonish
vor - nach isnt pronounced like "Vor and knock" , but like "for and nakhh" (the V sounds like a letter F and the A as in 'calm' and the ch sounds like when those israelis say khhhamas)
I thought it was hawk tua!
... I do not think the longsword was used properly against dual viewlding weapons, the Kali guy does not have any other chance than get closer but there was any attempt from the HEMA guy to keep distance when attacked. I would have expected one hand thrusts with upside movement (there was plenty of chances to do so).
Longsword guy clearly tried to be technical and snappy for the video, but it really looks like these 'sticks' would not stop an energetic oberhau, more so if both had steel.
@@konstantin3374ding ding ding we have a winner. It wouldn’t be entertaining or fun to just flèche for a few minutes.
Look hard.. I believe there are many casualties during the sword fights..
there is a channel of kenjutsu channel called let's ask seki-sensei, i think the sensei there would be happy if you or the hema guys there come and exchange techniques with him :p
hey I am early! Hema will win depending on the wepon. If they only have a dagger they can be as good as they want but their chances are slim, a spear in the hands of a noob on the other hand can best almost everyone with just a bit of luck.
Or simply a quarterstaff. It's a weapon that should not be underestimated.
I thought that place looked familiar lol.
Sword vs stick, Hemaist would have won that. The afterblows wouldn't have mattered as the oppoinet with sticks would have died. Hema team was being kind.
@@TheHemaWitcher haha. They are being very nice to me! But it’s actually double swords vs long sword.
Nah kali is legit that was wayyy to strong wow
nice
You should try buhurt next get in some real armor
This + better knowledge and movement in the terrain was probably how many of the tribal filipinos tore up the spaniards
Individual fencing skill has nothing to do with warfare though.
@@konstantin3374 I mean it technically is when every warrior has the skill of a elite hand-to-hand combatant. At that point every warrior you have is a precious resource.
Why so many wing chun guys also training kali?
I found it very similar to Wing Chun! Especially the close quarter stuff!
@@KevinLeeVlog Well me too (I am in Kali for 3months now), but you know the saying. Devil is hidden in details. So there is plenty of small concepts witch are completly different. For me I like that they have even sticky hands.
Now do it with steel
😂
yes Kevin. My spare kit would fit you and I have sticks that would match Steel >:)
hehe of course those swords are probably at least 1\5th the wait of a real sword , every time the leg is sitting there out in the open asking to get smacked
Daredevil Vs. Jon Snow lol
Kevin you supprize me with your FMA skills , I though you was just a jkd and chunner guy
hes been doing it for decades but yah, i had forgotten that fact until i saw him spar 😂
The HEMA guy clearly won big time. I don’t know what everyone is seeing in the comments by praising the stick fighting though the evidence is clear, but if this had been real, those sticks did nothing. The sword man did shoulder and kneecap damage. In the ancient era this would be a done deal. Good video Kevin but HEMA won. The first few shots to shoulder and kneecap would’ve already incapacitated you. After that, the guys were just being nice to you because you gave them a platform and held back.
some people just see what they want to see.
@ no it’s not that. He got him in the shoulder swiftly and accurately, and then the kneecap? Game over. The rest is Kevin being hero worshiped. He’s great I love his show, but the truth is the truth.
@@TheMaverickunleashed Kevin did fine. The longsword scored a few lethal blows that would have stopped it, but Kevin did great for it being his first time. The kali sticks can also represent shorter swords.
@ in this they didn’t represent shorter swords. There are foam weapons for that. But I like the fact that you saw what I saw. And by the way read all my comments, what you said is exactly what I’ve been saying all this time. That the Longsword won, but that Kevin did good. And that he’s talented. Check out my other comments.
Kevin's response to me disarming him was a chef's kiss. I'm glad he replayed that in slow motion because it was highly impressive the way he switched hands and attempted to counter.
Holding the sharp part to strike when he lost a weapon..?
As someone who's done hema for years, I don't think the hema guys did themselves any favours. The guy in the demo talks about hanging and winding, but in the sparring it's all jumpy, single-intent stuff. Then, longsword tends to fair poorly in asymmetrical match-ups, I think sword and buckler- or even better, messer and buckler- would have given a better showing against the paired weapons.
@joadams8022. It's the same with close range MA for self defense when it comes to sparring. Mainly it's for self defense & requires closing the distance.
@@MustAfaalik It's the opposite reason in hema- this is very tournament- focused to my eyes. For actual self defence, you'd want to manage the distance and control the other sword before closing in, rather than gambling on leaping in with one strike.
The weird back-calf-parallel-to-the-floor is a tell- great for leaping in, not so good for moving around.
The ATL fencers did a bit of winded when paired with each other. I agree on your last point though.
Look up Dog brothers to see full contact with wooden weapons
Nice video, it was worth the wait. If you're more interested in HEMA, check out the Battle of the Nations (the hema world championship), it's pretty interesting.
Thanks for the info!
I'm sorry, but the Battle of Nations is not a Hema world championship. It is a world championship but not for Hema. It's the world championship for buhurt/hmb/Acl or Acs. It's two very different groups, with some tiny overlap. Just because they wear medieval armor doesn't mean they do Hema
Battle of Nations is not HEMA
Best thing i know of, is CombatCon, is a dynamic event that brings together newcomers, experts, and highly skilled professionals to learn, practice, and celebrate Western and European Martial Arts. Share knowledge across disciplines, pursue your passion, and find your next obsession with an inclusive community of students, instructors, fighters, and enthusiasts. Test your skills against combatants from around the world, study and train with leading experts, and immerse yourself in a weekend of fun, fighting and learning.
Other than Combat Con You probably only come in contact with in Czech and Slovakia, they are crazy and very diligent in HEMA things. It think even over 50 years of experience meanwhile. Their sword fighting is almost on another level, except that you cannot take your sword into the disco with you
Dude who fought Kevin wasnt very good tbh, sorry but its true. Partially a strategy thing.
More than likely the Hema guy never encounter someone who uses two weapons with the speed, agility & fight IQ of Kevin's.
It’s partially a “you-don’t-know-what-you’re-looking-at” thing. Under a HEMA rule set the longsworder would have scored more points.
@@MustAfaalikyou can’t move steel weapons that fast.
@@regulus6773 All you need is to move fast enough. That's exactly how the native Filipino scalped the Spanish. The Hema guy was honest enough to say he was overwhelm.
@@regulus6773 The Hema guy did a count of 180++ from Kevin. And was clearly overwhelmed once the distance was closed, & very quickly at that, due to Kevin's familiarity with long blade & sparing in Kali.