How To Fiberglass Foam Board (on the cheap)
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- Ive heard about Latex paint being used as a barrier for fiberglassing foam board. This video is an experiment to see for myself if Standard Latex paint is enough to keep Polyester Fiberglass resin from damaging Foam Board while kicking off.
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This experiment is mainly for a foam paddle board fishing skiff that I want to build but can be utilized for many other purposes.
Great info ! I`m going to be building a foam kayak soon, Thanks for the heads up on polyester resin melting foam
I knew epoxy was safe, but wasn`t sure of polyester.
jack mehoff no problem man! This experiment was for me. I haven’t seen this topic go real informative so i thought I’d share if anyone else needed info..
@@seasic_official Much Appreciated !
It's going to delaminate. The bond is only as strong as the paint to foam adhesion. The paddleboard will flex as you use it and will also expand and contract from temperature variations.
functional artwork as I am getting into this build I’m finding out that you are correct. Even though the bond is strong on the test pieces, I’m seeing on a larger scale that there are serious issues brewing..
I worked for a major exhibit fabrication company for many years. We used to protect the foam with latex paint and then applied what we called a Hot Coat of polyester resin. A hot coat is made by adding a lot more catalyst than normal causing it to kick so fast that it doesn't have time to attack the foam. Then other coats can be applied without worry after a light sanding to roughen the surface.
That’s super interesting! Thanks for sharing
What were the ratios for the Hot coat?
@@convoluteddreams4263 kicker is 6 to 9 ratio
You can apply second coat of fiberglass when the first layer is slightly sticky but your glove comes away without any residue after touching.
wow - thats some new info. thanks
Both foam boards are polystyrene foam - one is just extruded from a mold and is a bit denser (pink), and the other is expanded (white). It's not necessarily the heat that's the problem with using polyester resin on polystyrene, it's the chemical reaction between the two. Extruded polystyrene has a melting point of 210°C, for example. But epoxy resin works fine on polystyrene foam (which proves it's not the thermal reaction that damages the polystyrene). Epoxy and polyester resin are different, despite most folks conflating the two.
I believe that's correct. It's not the heat, it's a solvent/solute. In chemistry we say "Like dissolves like". I like the Kicking it off hot with the catalyst. Gives the reaction less time to interact with the foam.
Well sir, you have conducted a experiment that I've been curious about for years. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for taking the time to do and post this. I've been wondering about this myself. You do things like I do them, in my back yard. Really appreciate you.
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time, that I didn’t, to do this for the world.
It's not heat that's melting the foam. It's just a chemical reaction. That type of foam is "soluble" in polyester resin.
Yes epoxy resin will also create the same reaction and heat but will not melt the foam. It's the chemicals in the poly resin that melts the foam not the heat
Thanks, hope it's true?
@@henrye718 which is stronger? He said the poly us cheap.
@@giovannijoseph9580 the expoxy is stronger
@@henrye718 why not spray a coat of epoxy, if it doesn't affect the foam, as above, then use the cheaper poly, over those next layers? - aluminum blanket layer, plastic sheet layer, to build light strength!
Thank you for making this video this will help me out alot with future projects.
Excellent demonstration - thanks for sharing!
Very helpful! In fact the best test for this on RUclips! THANKS!
Awesome test, and exactly what I was looking for.
Thank you so much for doing the experiment and providing the results. I am about to embark into a project to make a hard top for my caving cruiser, and this will help out greatly!
👍
Thank you that's what I was looking for, very clear and went directly to the subject as the title says, a rare honest person
👍
Coating the substrate like an insulator stops you from getting the benefit of bonding to the substrate (core) Proper design of composites includes the substrate as part of the structure and your painted layer prevents the connection to it. You are shooting yourself in the foot pal. At best you have created an eggshell arrangement negating the cores help in making a strong composite part.
P.S. pink, blue, or straight polystyrene foams offer no help structurally . Each time you walk or put weight on it , it will deflect and Disbond at the insulating layer inside causing the eggshell to move loosely around on your supposed substrate. The space between foam and resin is now free to collect water or even inflate itself in sunlight . This continues and allows polyester especially to flex and crack allowing more ingress of liquids etc.= total failure. Pony up to the bar and use proper materials or suffer for your mistakes. This has been well known for many years. Cheers!!
Freelancing cheap materials is expensive!
You are correct...check my results...2 layers of 24 oz mesh plus 6 oz to finish, fair, 4 or 5 coats of 2 part epoxy primer then finish...no flex at all...building anchor locker now...great info...cheers!
@@fissh29 isn't that unnessisarily heavy?
Polystyrene, pink or blue is just insulation, a plug, right? How do you insulate a hull, or deck, a roof or bulkhead? For a proper composite, that is, or is that seperate? ...outer wall composite, foam board insulation, then inner wall composite, with air space and vapor barrier...? Is it all riveted together tyen?
Thanks
Cool, where would one learn these things? Might you happen to know a book/site/resource?
Thanks for the tests. They really change things for me.
Awesome info, thanks. I’m going to build a slide in camper for my pick up and I want to use foam and frp fiberglass and now I have the info I need. Thank you.
You just saved me a ton of time THANK YOU you are awesome
Great news!! Thank you so much for doing this experiment. I'm going through a carbon fiber project that begins with a sculpted XPS foam block. Been scratching my head on what to use to coat it before i make the fiberglass mold from it. This'll save me some time!
Use sheetrock mud first on the foam and sand smooth to make your plug then fiberglass the plug and pull your mold off that then repeat the process with carbon fiber
This is huge for me. I’m making a big speed square / cutting jig for house framers to quickly chop sheets of plywood. Thanks man
this is perfect for making molds for live wells !.
Great job! Thanks for the experiment.
Thanks for doing this experiment. I too want to make a fishing skiff out of foam but had imagined covering with brown paper strips and diluted glue as a base.. this seems easier
Thank you for doing this experiment and informing us so we don't have to waste precious materials
Wow! Im using standard styrofoam now. Im thinking to apply thin layer of cement before applying the fiberglass resin. Until I watched this video. I will now apply this method of yours. Thank you!
Plain water down wood glue works great. Made a 14 ft launch out of Styrofoam and Vynilister resin with no issues. Over 18 yrs later still floating with the kids I gave it to.
Excellent - For about 100 years I've thought about making my own ice chest, 'some 6" thick on all surfaces - thank you for posting this
Did you try it on the ice chest? that’s what I wanted to do with it!
@@jasonnoel806 , no I haven't tried it
What I'd be concerned with is would the paint hold tight to the foam
then would the the resin hold tight to the paint.
But then I'd think the ice chest idea would be the best to use this idea on,
as it wouldn't be subjected to much stress other than carrying it around.
I'd think if you thought things through and designed the whole thing so as to
assemble it in such a way as to maximize the rigidity then take it easy
moving it and carrying it around.
I've been working with resin, fiberglass and foam for over Forty years. It's dirty, toxic and messy. If you're going through the process of building something that you want to last i would use epoxy resin.
I've hit lava rocks with my epoxy surfboards and didn't even ding them. If it was polyester resin I would've destroy the area that hit the rock. Polyester vs. Epoxy.....They're two totally different beasts. I'd never waste my time using polyester resin again regardless of the price!
Amazing test! Thank you for sharing!!!
Thanks for sharing this very informative video. This is what I'm looking for
Thanks for sharing your experiment. Now I know what I going to do in my next boat projects. From Ontario Canada
👍
Great experiment ! Thanks !!!!
Finally you answer all my questions, God bless you 😉
Great job, man. Many thanks! Saved me some time and headache.
Years ago I had a book on fiberglass and the author suggested using multiple coats of common wood glue over eps foam, before applying the fiberglass. It worked fine.
Yeah, I've seen people do Titebond III on XPS foam. TB3 has a fairly high tensile strength at 4000 psi--comparable to some polyester resins and two part epoxies (oddly, it's a higher tensile strength than G2 epoxy). It's also waterproof, and has good UV resistance. It's even cheaper than polyester resin, and FAR less toxic than it and even less toxic than epoxy. Heck, I think that iteration is considered food grade (theoretically you could eat off of it).
It probably will be a bit softer than epoxy or even polyester resin, but if it bonds well, you can go over it with one of those inexpensive epoxy-enamel paints to give it some hardness.
Also fillers like carbonized crystalline nanocellulose would up the hardness, toughness, tensile strength, stiffness, etc.
Anyways, I'm going to try it on a project; I have a small pickup truck that I want to put a top on, and I'm using a combo of thin plywood and XPS foam as the core, and fiberglass/TB3 has the reinforcement.
PVA with mirco bubbles works, although talc or similar if weight is not a issue.
@@justinw1765 thanks a lot! it's a great idea to use titebond instead of polyester rasin! Would you let me know how is coming along your pickup truck cap protect? I've a camper project in mind, where I'd like to use reinforced xps foam.
@@stevekeserii3935 I'm about 3/4th done. Maybe because of Covid etc (as well as some heartbreak), I've been more apathetic and lower energy than usual, so the project is going unduly slow. But the 6 oz/yd2 fiberglass I'm using bonds pretty well to the XPS and noticeably increases it's tensile strength, toughness, etc.
When I eventually finish it, I will likely put up a video on it. Need to get my butt in gear and just go ahead and finish it. I'm using plywood as the two ends cause I ran out of foam, but the two walls and roof is 1.5" XPS foam reinforced with the above mentioned fiberglass and Titebond III.
@@justinw1765 thanks a lot for the update. I totally understand. I'm in the same boat with the low energy due to Covid-19: I've all the materials and tools for another project piling up in my garage just no motivation to go and do the job...
Nice video! Great way to go with cheap open cell foam. Thanks
Thanks @seasic very helpful video. You’re a hero
Thank you for this very helpful video!!!! Regards from the Philippines!
Great test. Thank you
Thank you this actually helped me make dinos out of pink foam for the base structure and how to protect it from fiberglass covering
Very informative video! Thank You!
What you need is an A B pour foam that you can pick up from your local fiberglass store. It's designed for polyester and vinyl Ester resin. It's a cousin to the A B spray insulation foam at your hardware store.
Wicked video man. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this video, very helpful ❤❤❤❤
Great video with controlled expirement
I was gonna cover my whole roof with Styrofoam and epoxy fiberglass on top! Gee, i’m sure glad i watched your video first! Idea; What about trying epoxy paint underneath instead of latex paint? I covered my garage with it and its holding up well years later!
You could just use epoxy resin for the lay up and it would not interact with the foam board. I don’t like the use of latex paint as you have a horrible bond between fiberglass and foam.
Thanks for that. Very helpful.
Wow thanks for sharing
Dude you are the best human on earth right now 🙏💪☀️⚓⚓⚓
Great job man
Bro exelent video..just what I need it to learn.. thanks
Great job! Just a little off on what actually causes the foam to melt.
Styrene foam is a curious thing in terms of petrochemical resistance. A white foam cup is a good experimental container. Take a cup and drop a little gasoline in it. Be sure there is something under the up to catch the mess, because the gas almost immediately melts through the foam. Oddly, aviation gasoline, which is the same basic feedstock as automobile gasoline, will not melt the foam.
It is all about the solvents, not the heat of the exothermic reaction. Other petrochemicals, particularly “hotter” solvents will also melt styrene foam. Lacquer thinner, MEK, and similarly hot solvents pass right through that cup. Mineral spirits will not attach the foam as quickly.
Interesting side note: polyester resin and epoxy resin are both thermoset resins. The chemical reaction leading to molecular cross-linking is accelerated by the exothermic reaction. Too much catalyst creates a rapid reaction and more heat, especially with polyester resin/MEKP catalyst. It is possible to create enough heat to actually make resin in a container smoke. While I have never seen it I am told it can create enough heat to create ignition of the resin. (Polyester or vinylester will do this, not necessarily epoxy). In thin cross-sections, like a lay-up with fiberglass this is rarely a problem.
Another important thing to keep in mind is resin shelf life. Epoxy components have a VERY LONG shelf life. Polyester or vinylester require the addition of a “promoting agent” typically CONAP and DMA. If these agents are not in the resin it will not cross- link from the MEKP catalyst. Downside is that the promoting agents significantly reduce shelf life. You will find that old polyester resin will not harden as the promoting agents have degraded over time. SOOO… if you’re in a long term project don’t buy more polyester resin than you can use in a month or so.
If epoxy resin (either A or B, unmixed) develops a crystalline participate you can gently warm it to get the crystallized particles back in solution and you’re ready to get back to work! Old polyester that will not harden cannot be helped. It must be disposed of.
Thank you sir. Very helpful.
Some latex paint may work others may not. The top grade paints, infinity, and signature have titanium dioxide which will act as a heat shield. . . . while the cheaper stuff uses clay. . . . interesting and awesome video. Thanks for making this.
Great video. Thank you for making it.
Thanks man for this,
Fixed many paddle boards with foam inside. I just don’t use fiberglass. It cracks easier, and doesn’t last as long as epoxy and a sandpaper destroyer.
Epoxy with fiberglass cloth and u have a proper repair. Easy to sand, paint, then add the top coat, sand and polish. Job done.
If u wanna be cheap (since epoxy slightly more) use wood glue as a shield coat and then add the fiberglass. But epoxy still the best option.
Very helpful, thank you.
wow that amazing sir... im reseaching one that problem for a long time :( im planning to built a kayak from foam with fiber resin... but worrying about the chemical reaction... now you solved my problem :) thanks a lot sir... you saved me new sub here sir more power to your channel
I just watched your video and its been a couple of years since you did this but, I'd love to know what you ended up doing plus a couple of suggestions for you. We know that there are a couple of things that the polyester won't stick to and I use them all the time. The three that I know of are waxed anything but I'm talking about wax paper or parchment paper both are used in cooking or baking. It makes it nice to be able to tape it down then fiberglass right over it or use a gel coat then fiberglass either way will work plus if you do that it helps take the sticky film off it because wax is also a hardening agent . Next right out of the kitchen is aluminum foil . For some reason it will not stick to aluminum. And the third is glass so if you want some flat and awesome panels do it on glass. I helped a friend a couple of years ago now to fiberglass a teardrop trailer that was made on top od an aluminum frame boxed with aluminum angle to box out and adhere to then 4 inches of the green foam board but we have done it on the pink and white but, I like a more dense foam board that we wrapped in wax paper we did the inside and outside then top coated with a white gel coat. Yes it was a little work but, the savings over the epoxy was quite large and time wise it cures faster; The whole thing empty was 350 pounds with the tires but, it was empty. To do the inside we just tipped it on its top or sides because it was so light and yes you leave the wax paper on it because it protects the foam and is way cheaper than paint and time wise as well. I hope it all went well I will check your page to see if there is any updates but, give it a try and see.
Great video, was very helpfull, was going to build a boat and its very difficult to buy poliuretan boards where i live, so this is the ansewer, thx 🙂
WOW, Thanks for the video
Great info, thank you
Great video !
Awesome and useful video thanks, strong and light. I will use latex paint now on my car bumper mold. Polyester has less flex than epoxy but is stronger. Also it is not heat that melts the styrofoam but styrene (gas), the thinning agent in polyester resin
Thank you brother appreciate it!
That’s pretty awesome. I have a plastic canoe that I’m bass fishing from with a 55lb thrust trolling motor. Have been try to figure out how to make the floor a bit more stiff. I’m thinking the pink foam painted. Then fiber glass. Maybe use some sort of caulk to get it to stick. Then I may make an outrigger as well using foam and fiberglass
Thank you for the video.
Awesome. Foam slide on sleeper that's light enough so I can still tow the boat.... here we come! Thanks heap. Might go 6 coats just in case.
FANTASTIC HELPFUL VIDEO ! Thank you. You have raised and answered my questions on this topic and i am very pleased that this works. One thing i want to say is that a lot of youtube videos have irritating sound tracks but yours are brilliant. can you share any links please ? regards J of UK
Uda man! Im looking to make a skimboard and would have thought 1-2 layets of latex would be ok.... Now i know 5+ is the way to go. Thanks brother!
Interesting video. Having built a few boats, I have always been told that you can use epoxy over polyester resin but you cannot use polyester resin over epoxy as it will not adhere. Depending upon your ultimate goal it might be simpler to use a West System type epoxy for your project instead of going through the hassle of coating the foam with latex paint.
Can epoxy be used over styrofoam, polyfoam or pink foam?.
Thank you for sharing your interesting poly..merci beaucoup 👍🏼
Nice experiment, interesting results! Would you recommend using pink foam with fiberglass for a small boat’s stringers? If so, how many layers of fiberglass would you add?
Thank you sir! I was looking on how to make a kayak, you gave me some ideas :)
hi joao , Im in same proyect, just trying ELMER'S GLUE ALL instaed latex , today apply 4 layers of this but not yet the epoxy.
Thank you for this information🌹
I'm glad to have ran across this video. I had assumed I would need to cover the foam with wide masking tape. In fact I've used this tape trick for making shapes of missing piece in truck hoods as a backer form. I've wanted to build a nice angler kayak with this method , now I know it'll work with only latex as a resin barrier. Many thanks and 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Phil Lowman , use johnsons paste wax over the latex if you want the form too "release".
Thanks for doing this!
Just got a 57 15 foot fiberglass boat with corrugated solid floor. Would this method be a safe efficient lightweight way to make floor solid? Amazing video you have a teacher approach much appreciated
Nice one ang galing naman
I've tried to find a good cheap way to strengthen foam board. I wanted to try (synthetic quick crete?) Anyway... as a family effort every July 4th our family has a pontoon boat parade float using a lot of foam board. Fiberglass/resin seemed risky.. but you made it look possible. I've also use paper mache for more detailed pieces but even with a few coats of water poly...it still doesn't do well.. if it gets wet. I'm hoping to try your resin idea this year. It time to start planning but haven't decided what to make this year still. Google searching this year lead me to a giant loon with a swivel head or the semi truck pontoon. We would win every year...so last year they made our family the boat parade judges...but I still have to keep upping my game. Thanks for the tip.
This is awesome I want to make some stabilizers for my boat and I think this may come in handy 🤔
Hi, thanx for the video, it helps a lot, just a question pls, did you decrease each coat of the latex?
Interesting. Thought about this for making camper cabinets. One thing that I have found using pink board is that people lay down a barrier material to add tensile strength. Ive seen people use canvas, bedsheets, nylon window screen, etc on top of a layer of latex paint with another top coat of paint. Try that with a fiberglass top coat or even epoxy...
Good informative video.👍👍👍👍👍👍
I am looking to make a low weight pickup/camper rv out of PVC pipe (frame) and xps foam board for walls/roof-floor all wrapped in a s grade fiberglass. There is a primer that can be sprayed over the foam to prevent deterioration of the foam allowing you to use polyvinyl , polyrester, or epoxy with your fiberglass. I believe I saw it on the fiberglast website.
Awesome!!
excellent thanks
If you’re looking for an affordable board to fiberglass over look up plascore scrim backing honeycomb panels. About $45.00 a sheet and you can purchase directly from plascore. No worries when using polyester resin either. Good video.
There is another product used in Hollywood for sets, molds, costumes that rock hard water based and works with fiberglass polyester resin. It’s call “AquaResin.com”.
On RUclips, type in; 55-59 Chevy truck diy door panels with fiberglass, aqua resin. It is the first video that pops up for “Classic Truck Addictions” by a guy who is building a sculpted door panel with extruded polystyrene. Pink just happen be a brand identifier, but still the stronger EPS or the extruded type.
My house is completely wrapped in it, screwed two inch thick with special coated screws on a 16” X 16” pattern to catch the studs, scratched wire a wire brush and a modified concrete trowled on w/a 3/8” notched and 1” Expanded polystyrene (EIFS Grade) installed into the bed. Scuffed or sanded to smooth, coated with a colored 100% exterior grade latex resin (Same as House Paint) but with small sized marble stones. It is trowled onto the cement/fiberglass treated cloth using a magnizium float. I added R14 to the outside and dropped my bills by 2/3rds. The finish may fade 2% over 20 years. It’s been on 16.
Just saying the aqua-resin (Aqua Resin L = liquid) and the powder (Aqua Resin S3) can be seen but found at the website if you hit “Products” and scroll down.
Hope this helps. No idea how it works wet. But EIFS is most common on commercial building and sold by many companies but “STO” is the biggest and use yellow buckets.
Thanks Skipper! I am in the process of restoring a 1963 cruiser and want to use foam board with fiberglass. I am so happy to know I can save some daggum money by switching to polyester resin. Where do you charter out of in Florida? I am in Plant City.
I completely restored(structurally) an antique 1979 thunderbird formula 18' O/B boat. For structure I used Seacast for stringers and the transom. For the deck and the covered bow section I used 1/2" expanded foam sheeting. This boat structurally is as solid as can be. The benefits to the way I did it are that 1. Everything put into the structure is inorganic. It will not rot ever. 2. The chemical bonds are extremely solid. The Secast slightly melts and coalesces with the fibeglass forms it's poured into. 3. Sealed tighter than a drum there will never be water below deck. For paint I used a 3 part epoxy base and a 3 part polyurethane top coat, both were sprayed with an automotive style gun. 3 part paint? Yeah there is the paint the catalyst and a retarder. If ypu want a boat to last and never to have to redo anything because of rot. Do what I did. It was spendy but this boat can be passed to my nieces and nephew, and to their kids and so on with only the possible need for a repower.
1979 antique???
@@kentfletcher8539
Antique Vessel Registration
The following requirements must be met in order to be registered as an antique vessels:
At least 30 years old
Used for non-commercial (recreational) purposes only
Powered by the vessel’s original type of power; engine of same year and model that the vessel had originally.
Great tip dude my project thanks you:)
Thanks I just wondered did it bond well
thats a lot of work. My go to at the moment is to cover the foam using aluminium foil with 3m 70 spray adhesive. Works very well.
would a couple of layers of shrink wrap work?
good intro ..... brilliant thanks
you will find white glue in 2 coats [it adheres better to foam]works best with resins and also cans of spray paint
Polyester resin is less expense than Epoxy. But in the overall cost of any build or repair it's really not that much more. And one crucial thing to remember is poly resin WILL ABSORB water over time, Epoxy wont. This is very important if you are using wood in your build or repair.
I know this video is a bit old but, you should try homemade chalk paint. It has Plaster of Paris in it which deflects heat extremely well. Basically, you just add Plaster of Paris to latex paint and a bit of water to thin it, then it will adhere to most surfaces. I have made and used homemade chalk paint for years but I think it would completely solve your problem with the heat and you would only need one coat. In fact, I'll bet you can just mix Plaster of Paris with PVA glue and water (to thin) and just paint one coat of that on. It also dries in a very short time and will add structure to any flat surface. Great video and thanks for taking a hit for us all out here. Good luck 👍👍
Can u do video of long term durability in the future and see if it worth doing
Good experiment. Strength tests?