I think it's so interesting that people can go their whole lives without knowing the other type of person exists! It shows that there is no "wrong" way of thinking, as clearly your aphantasia and lack of an inner voice has not handicapped you in any way!
I saw a video of a guy asking a psychologist multiple questions about this and one of them were "do people with an inner monologue have mental ilness", the psychologist didn't answer that question BUT for the past 3 days I've been not only couped up but also trapped hearing my every thought and then feeling bad about it. I managed to calm myself down today but this comment makes it better!! I love that I can visualize and think this way and I wished I had appreciated it earlier in life!!
@AMBEDO when I heard that most people have internal monologues I was feeling as if it was something wrong with me because I don't have it. Only visual imagery + feelings combination as the way of processing information so don't worry. And you and me are completely OK.
I have been surprised by the people who have a 24/7 inner monologue but I have always assumed we have totally different activity going on in our brains, at least from our perspectives. I believe we see and hear things slightly different with our actual senses. I know we can taste things radically differently, like people with the ‘cilantro tastes like soap’ gene. We also have experienced that influence our senses. We also have different learning styles, creative and analytical types, intelligence of different categories, and that’s not even scratching the surface of mental health, and how that can impact things… especially if you experience mood swings. So if our senses and experiences can be different, and we can have totally different learning styles, intelligence styles, brain chem, etc, our thought processes and conscious minds probably come with a lot of variety.
As someone with ADHD and an internal monologue that never shuts up this is very fascinating. Even as I watched the video I realized I was thinking and humming a song without consciously doing it. I’m not sure if the way i think it’s “normal” but I’ve always felt like I have multiple layers of thought, like there’s always the main conscious thought but if i think about it I notice the other layers of thought that are usually completely disconnected. It’s like when you notice you’re automatically breathing, my brain never stops thinking multiple thoughts and the more i notice it usually the more prevalent they are. I’d give a lot to stop thinking for a while.
I once saw a description of ADHD/ADD as: - Having 10 TV channels turned on at the same time. I recently found out that I have ADD too, at the age of 30. And it was an amazing discovery, as I now know to forgive myself and do things that help me work with ADD. I found out I have ADD by trying to find solutions to my procrastination and forgetfulness. And articles and self-help ADD and ADHD videos popped up into my feed and then it "clicked" for me. I then went to my doctor who sent me to a psychiatrist that confirmed my suspicion. The drugs that are available however, can be harmful in many ways, and so I have decided to avoid that for now. After realizing what ADD and ADHD is, I also found out that my father, brother, wife and her parents have ADD, by asking them the right questions. Obviously Im not a psychiatrist, but I am an INFJ personality type, so it was easy for me to come to that conclusion, that they have the same struggles every day. We can only hold a few pieces of information at any given time, which is why we forget things easily. Simply put, the short term memory in ADD/ADHD people is terrible, while our long-term memory is working way better. People with ADD/ADHD are much more aware of everything in their surroundings, be it movements, sounds, shadows, birds, facial expressions etc. which we cant help but react to. Turning our heads, listening in on conversations by accident, which is why it is almost impossible for us to focus while being surrounded by all sorts of noise. We are however very good hunters because of this, as we respond immediately to changes in the environment, as we take in the full spectrum of light, shadows, movement, different noises, without focusing too much on one channel at a time. But this is also a problem when trying to hold a conversation, as we get distracted easily, which then infuriate people, as we seem disinterested. However, the biggest problem we have is not our attention span. The real problem is our lack of dopamine responses, which makes it almost impossible to do tasks that we are disinterested in. Simply put. ADD/ADHD people find it nearly impossible to do work, if they dont feel like it. Instead they want to do something interesting which often leads to other projects or procrastination. This can lead to our bosses firing us or having issues with our work, as we cant start and finish in good time. Instead we wait till the last second, where we will find our motivation.
@@ragingsvendsen7960 taking Adderall for the first time was amazing. All my brain noise just quieted instantly. Adderal showed me a whole new world of how I should be. But it’s dangerous stuff so I came off of it. Since coming off adderall, I switched to taking Intramax (because I suspected severe vitamins deficiencies probably weren’t helping my brain). The tyrosine helps me focus, the glutathione helps calm down the glutamate in my brain. I also switched to gluten free because in my case, it was causing severe neurological issues with me. Speech issues too. And then I incorporated medical cannabis. The combo of all of that has gotten rid of my daytime fatigue, my inability to move in the mornings, my scattered brain, my messy room and house is now organized, I can talk to people without completely tuning out.. It’s literally like I’m a new person.
Yep…ADHD, I can hear and see a person speaking and simultaneously “hear and see” a memory or something I create in my mind. I love our neurodiversity. We are pegs with unique shapes. Our society’s preference for “average” maximizes normality, leaving us off to the side until we find our spot.
Same. ADHD overthinker with multiple layers of thought. Best moment ever was when my mind was once totally quiet. Also people meditate for years just to eventually quiet their minds.
Are you a teacher? You have done a really good job of explaining how your brain works for someone like me at the end of the spectrum where everything I think is extremely vivid. I daydream constantly and can literally live in my head and picture things like a movie. It’s good and bad, good for long drives but bad for being present in the real world.
I'm so glad it makes sense! It's so hard to explain, especially when I really can't fathom how things are in your head either. I do think that if I could daydream as you do that I would have a hard time living in the real world.
As a fellow "Aphant" and quiet mind, I have to say you did a really great job with your explanations and analogies! Far better than I could ever articulate. You're spot on with everything!
I have aphantasia, and limited inner monologue. Like I can think words to myself, but if I am not actively thinking of something my mind is completely blank. Makes going to bed at night very easy. Also you describe the inner "voice" perfectly There is no sound per se just like you said a "thought rendering". Like when you mouth the words. You are making the words, but nothing is coming out.
Thanks! I thinks it's hard coming up with clear ways to describe these things, so it's good hear that it makes sense! I like your description of mouthing words without sound coming out, too. Very much feels like that.
I said this on another video where someone was talking about how they don’t have an inner monologue, but I’ve always wished my entire life that I could shut up the voice in my head that has to read every word when I’m reading. Because of this I absolutely hate to read. It’s so hard for me to actually take information in without reading the same sentence multiple times because not only is the sound of my own voice distracting but I can also be talking in my head about something entirely unrelated at the same time. Without control over it.
Wow, that seems very confusing. I'm not sure if I could cope with it. Do you listen to audio books at all? Or would the same thing happen? I can't do audio books because I forget things while reading and have to go back and check, so I need the book to flip through.
Quiet Mind Inside Audio books are better, but I always prefer to watch a show or a movie over reading a book. Just because I can actually take in all of the information and it can provoke thoughts without the distracting voice reciting every word. I mean even as I am typing this my brain is saying each word in my voice as I write it. Not before I write it, but literally as I type each word my brain is saying it in my head
I love reading. I can see it all like a movie, and get totally lost in the book. I can absorb at an astonishing rate, I think. My "power of concentration" can shut out everything but the book - the absorption is so intense that I cease to hear sounds around me, including someone calling my name!
I have been trying to explain how my thoughts work for so long and this helped me articulate it, thank you. I also dont have an inner monologue or visual thought process.
I just had a revelation: I think what you're describing is how we...or I, at least...operate in an emergency. Some authoritative, "I have to take care of this now", person is activated, and my chatter and inner "stuff" turns off. I do what I have to do, with no preparation, consideration, worry. Wow.. How wonderful life would be if I could always move through life like this! You are lucky.
Yeah, she's definitely got an unfair advantage at transcendental meditation. Took me forever to learn how to turn all that crap off, that's constantly circulating around in my mind...
Actually no, I also have aphantasia (only found out a few months ago :D) and meditating is still super hard... I don't have an "inner voice" it is more like I am whispering to myself... and I can't seem to shut the hell up when trying to meditate :D
GUYS I KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON as someone who has done a lot of meditation that involves listening to or trying to control or observe the voice in your head I can tell you that we also think without words. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS!!!! first the thought abstractly comes up think of it as less of a thought but more of an understanding when you see the brown colour of the carpet you know it's brown it's more of an immediate understanding a wordless thought we're it's an immediate comprehension. Then within about a second your inner monologue puts your thought into a sentence of the language you speak the most or the most comfortable with. Your mind doesn't actually need to do this for you to understand your thoughts it's just a mechanism that we've developed due to the way we have to do various things in life formulating our thoughts into words to talk or writing for school, for most of us it becomes an automatic process that takes place in our heads moments before we speak and if we don't actually speak out loud then it just takes place either way.
This is a very good description. Thank you! It is just an understanding. I heard someone else call it "hyperconceptualizing". Everything in my head is just concepts and ideas until I verbalize them or write them down.
Quiet Mind Inside Exactly, I'm glad you were able to understand what I was trying to get out there. Sometimes simply telling people it's an understanding doesn't get through lol.
Your explanation has made me realize what’s going on with me. I used to be kinda like you...where everything happened subconsciously and I said what came up without...calculating it first. But then I took mushrooms and EVERYTHING CHANGED. I had to tell my legs to move to walk during the experience. It’s like I left the surface of my body (where “i” resided before) and went BEHIND my subconscious. The only thing I didn’t consciously have to think about was my breathing and heartbeat. But I went “behind” every thought process, etc. The experience was very beautiful and freeing. But afterward... I couldn’t go back to being my surface level self. I couldn’t remember who I was. All of my automatic responses were WIPED CLEAN. I felt depressed and like NOTHING had purpose. These days I reside and slide somewhere between the two. Luckily some of who I used to be comes back...so that I can “fit into society” when I need to. It’s like being a baby again. With no direction. Anyway, just wanted to share and maybe this can help someone. Thanks for sharing too. ❤️
I am so intrigued by this... My mind is blown that my mind can be blow in such a way... How both sides are so taken back by the other... How is this just coming to light? Like I have chills and don’t know why I can’t get over it. Lol I really hope you continue these videos, cause I’ll continue to watch and support. I am ready to find out how you day dream without the visualization of those dreams. I felt with the first couple videos, jealous of this way of mental processing. If I could shut my mental (in both definitions of the word) voice up and my vivid flashbacks off once in awhile I think “how far I could be right now”, yet watching your first video got me choked up when you were talking about memories. I am all in keep posting pretty please.
Thanks for the lovely comment. I will try my best to explain as much as I can. I honestly didn't expect so much interest. When I made the first video, I didn't 100% believe my mind was actually different. To tell you the truth, I can't even really watch my first video because it does still make me sad. But thinking about how my brain works is kind of a good distraction from feeling bad about my lack of visual memories.
I have always been embarrassed by having a quiet mind. People would often say to me, “I can just see your mind spinning” when in fact I wasn’t thinking anything. I didn’t know having an inner monologue was a thing. I also don’t have a minds eye. I did have a very successful career in the sciences and IT, and in leadership positions. Understanding computers has always been very easy for me. Overall though I have felt apart but never understood why. Glad I found your channel.
I can't fathom not having an inner monologue, but I have to say that it does make things crazy for because I have inattentive ADHD, so my mind never stops - ever. It's exhausting. Not having an inner monologue seems like it would be more peaceful and calmer.
The conversation between you and your husband was a good analogy. In casual conversation I wouldn't need to think about every word or say it out in my mind but when receiving information from the other person i.e our beach holiday - I would see images of those memories and it would give me context needed to form my reply. I would then extract information from those images based on the most vivid memories or imagery. What are memories for you if you cannot see or recreate them in your mind? Also it makes me smile when you say "i was thinking" or "when i imagine" because your not thinking or imagining in the way I thought those words meant. This is so mind boggling and bizarre to me. I cant wrap my head around it 🤯 But it must be much weirder for you to think most of us are going around hearing our thoughts and seeing images in our mind most of the time 🤪
It's very true that I find it absolutely bizarre you are all not stark raving mad with all that going on in your heads 😂! My memories are there, but somehow I'm accessing them without picture or sound. It's like I have a blueprint or schematic, perhaps like binary code, and I'm able to babble out words from that information. When I recall a memory, I just get a flash of info dump, and it's not until I start talking that it takes shape. How I speak in a conversation about regular stuff is how all my speaking happens, even when accessing memories. The information is just there when I need it without consciously working with it first.
JM: I suppose, technically, she's not "imagining" as much as some other form of "cognizing". Perhaps we don't even have a good word for aphantasic cognition in that regard because it seems to be a minority experience. QMI: We are all stark raving mad. But perhaps this all might make for you a different kind of sense out of the rise in the popularity of mindfulness meditation. From what I can tell, the inner voice is a phenomenon only a few thousand years old.
@@quietmindinside4808 But does that mean you need to speak the information or get it outside your mind before you can start editing and working with it?
Silence. Don't underrate it. I wish my brain could shut up and be silent, yet it constantly brings stuff up. Like when I go to bed. Silence would be amazing! Then I didn't have to go through my "files" (pictures/monologue) and relive everything I did wrong that could have been done differently. It feels like a slideshow. It's one though after the other, so when you are done with one, the next "slide" comes up, and then the next one, and next one. It takes me forever to fall asleep, because I relive the moment, monologue and the feeling. If I feel like I did something wrong, the feeling is there. So I can't make the "lump" in my stomach go away, it stays there for a looong time. Don't underrate silence. I envy you for it 😊
you can still have anxiety with this. i have this plus an anxiety disorder, the files and reliving just isnt a visual image. we still have regrets and memories.
Imo, I think the best way to explain how she experiences life is like during meditation where you quite you inner voice (stop talking to yourself) and stop imagining things (visualizing images in your head). Instead, you just look around yourself and experience. You know where you are, what your looking at, and you can speak without the need of the inner voice and eyes.
I found out the other day that my girlfriend doesn't have an internal monologue, however, she does seem to be able to visualize things pretty well. It has been difficult for her to explain what it's like in her head. Very interesting watching your videos, thank you.
I just came across Aphantasia on RUclips and thought this sounds like me. So I was looking at other videos and I still couldn’t understand their explanation on it, and they were talking too fast for me. Then I found your videos and became an instant subscriber. I’m 59 years old and I never knew that people could actually see things in their head, let alone hear them. Thanks
My inner voice changes throughout the day. It's like having a conversation with yourself but without speaking out loud. I was watching Mindy Kaling last night and my inner voice started sound like her. lol I can speak much faster and clearer inside my head. Ill also say things a certain way but they end up coming out differently. I like the analogy of subconsciously walking, it sounds very straightforward, effortless, and easy.
I think what she is saying is instead of processing sensory information, her brain is optimized in a subconscious manner purely through the logic portion of her brain. I’ve read about left brain and right brain types of thinking and there are people who one hemisphere of their brain is essentially non-functional but you could never tell unless you did a brain scan. It doesn’t handicap the person in any way, it just reroutes the information they are receiving in a different way than those who need imagery to make sense of any data they need to process.
I just watched your video off the back of another video which basically made me aware that not everyone’s brain works the same. You explained the way you ‘think’ very well. For someone like me it’s hard to properly comprehend as my head is full of sounds, voices, thoughts etc so I can’t actually visualise a silent head. I mean where do all your ideas come from, what about memories, pictures of stuff, when you are planning a holiday or anything. When someone is saying something that provokes ‘thoughts’, or you disagree with what’s being said but you can’t voice your opinion, do you not have voices in your head talking, thinking about stuff? I liken my head to being in a crowded place and you hear everyone’s voices at the same time, some are louder and clearer than others but you get to hear extracts from everyone’s conversation, just some stand out more that in turn invokes a thought about what you heard. It’s so noisy in my head, all the time. Great video, very interesting
The way you explain the reading and typing is exactly how I would explain my mind. But I have "an inner voice". I think thought rendering is maybe a better way of describing it. It's not really a voice, or a narration. And I think that maybe when people say "I hear a voice in my head" the word "hear" is the wrong one to use, it's more that expectation you explain - but it feels like a voice sort of, since it communicates. This video made me even more confused since I feel like I can relate a lot to what you say, but I know for sure I have an inner monologue. Some of these things sound like a difference in definition and understanding maybe? Because thought rendering sound like a better way to describe it. It's just thoughts that float up there without any real sound
I agree. Some of it does seem like semantics. I don’t “hear” a voice in the traditional sense. It isn’t like someone else is talking to me. It’s just me thinking. And when I visualize it isn’t like I “see” a scene on the back of my eyelids....I just think about a scene and picture it in my imagination.
Yes, I'm getting more confused the more we talk about it 😁. For me, I just get the conscious thoughts that I force into my head. I can't replicate other voices and have a dialogue in there, I don't get negative messages, I don't get a narration of what I'm doing, etc. I feel like it is different from what other people can experience. I'm not sure if it should have a different name or not. I definitely don't feel like I have an inner monologue because that sounds to me like you talk to yourself in your head, and I don't do that. I don't have an internal dialogue either because I can't hear other people's voices in my head. Perhaps it's an inner voice, but that doesn't feel right because there's really no voice. I don't know. I like 'thought rendering' or 'thought voice'. It feels like it describes it better. But yeah it's probably just semantics. I did just pick up a book on the subject to hopefully find some better answers 😄.
@@quietmindinside4808 It is dialogue whether you hear a voice or not. I can argue with myself in my head. I make a point and then a counterpoint and then another point and it can go on forever. That does not mean there are different voices or characters. It is just my mind reasoning.
@@meganmardones2473 I can't argue in my head either. I can force a thought, but I can't work with it that way. It's just like a thought floating by, and then it's gone. The best I can do is kind of pre-think something to say, but I can't adjust it. And I never get praise or other kinds of thoughts from my head. If I need to find something, I don't think it my head "Where did I put that?" Sometimes I do say that out loud, but I would never internalize it.
@@quietmindinside4808 But you muuuust have a way of working things out in your head. If you are dealing with a problem and how to solve it and you can't talk out loud, I mean, your brain has to be dealing with different factors. How else would you make good choices? How would you deal with moral dilemmas? How would you see all sides of an issue? I can always see a bazillion sides of any issue. It can't just be in your subconscious and automatically digested. You have to have an active role in sorting through your thoughts. I feel like crying. I just don't get it.
Thank you so much for sharing! I am just discovering that not everyone has an inner voice and I am so interested in it! Come to find out, many people in my life do not have an inner monologue and I felt kind of crazy saying I hear my thoughts because my husband, sister, and brother in law have no idea what I am talking about lol They thought I meant that I am hearing other voices (like you would think an unstable person would). I am looking forward to your next video!
I'll be honest, I always thought hearing voices in your head was a sign that something was wrong! I had no idea it was normal. I can't imagine how you guys focus with all that going on in your head!
People generally learn to read out loud and then internalize that to internal speech. Assuming you learned how to read in the average way we all learned, I wonder why your external voice didn't become internal? Also, if someone spilled a bunch of marbles on the floor and asked you how many were there, how would you count them? Can you only count out loud? You can't say (inside your mind)...one, two, three...are you _capable_ of hearing your voice inside your head or is it an impossibility? Is it possible that you *do* have a voice inside your head, but you have tuned it out or haven't isolated it? If you try, can you hear (or imagine) hearing your own voice inside your head? Maybe it's a natural thing for the vast majority of people, but others can develop it? Like, could you, or would you even want to, practice hearing your own voice internally? These are just some of the many questions running through my mind. Editing to add: About the reading, studies show that when people read silently, they are silently moving their larynx while reading. It is called "subvocalization," and it is considered universal. I wonder whether you subvocalize while reading...
You have some very interesting stuff in here! I'm honestly not sure about the learning to read stuff. I don't remember how I learned; although, I do remember teaching my brother to read. The movement of the larynx is very interesting. As far as I know I'm not moving anything, so perhaps there is a connection. The counting thing is very good. My first instinct would be to count them out loud. However, I could count them in my head using a "milk voice". I think of it more of a thought rendering than a voice though. It doesn't sound like me; it doesn't have a pitch or timbre. It's just kind of there. It seems to have a "character limit", so to speak, so it's not super reliable to use. It's very easy for me to forget what I'm doing with that thought voice. I'm wondering now if perhaps I could strengthen it, though.
@@novioey I'm not sure if I can learn to visualize as it seems I have nothing to start with. I do wonder if I could train the voice because I do "hear" something when I read, even though it doesn't sound like a voice (no pitch or timbre).
Hi Susan, I wanted to reply to your first point where you say people learn to read out loud and then internalize this into inner speecht. I'm a psychology student and right now I'm working on a module called developmental psychology. The development of the inner voice starts around the beginning of preschool years. Toddlers around 2,5 years old start using 2-4 word sentences and primarily use egocentric speech. Which means that what they're talking about is not meant to be heard by others. So a little bit later in the development, around 4 years old, they start to learn how to internalize all the egocentric speech. They still use egocentric speech but they also learn how to use social speech, so talking that is supposed to be heard by others. So they learn how to internalize speech even before they learn to read. I hope this clears some things up. I'm still trying to get a hold on one of my neuropsychology teachers who might be able to tell me where in the development something might have 'gone wrong' which resulted in the absence of an inner monologue.
@@julieannelovesbooks Thanks, Julie. I'd love to hear what they have to say. I've been trying to read up on it as well and came across this conversion of speech out loud to oneself to switching it internally. I don't remember ever talking to myself in my head, even as a child. I vocalize things like "You can do this" or "You look ridiculous today". I also don't have conversations with myself in my head. I don't work things out that way. The only thing I can "hear" is that thought voice that doesn't sound like a voice. I only use it while reading or writing or when I'm practicing a speech or creating a "daydream". I can't really do anything else with it. I can't hold a lot in it either. So, like, I wouldn't be able to hold a whole speech I wanted to give in there, but I could do a few sentences. I feel like I may be getting things stuck in my working memory, and it just can't move on. And I definitely can't hear anything I don't actively craft. I don't have any internal interlocutors for sure. I'm not sure how typical this is.
I just discovered Aphantasia like 10 minutes ago (I don’t have it), and I am completely blown away. I can’t imagine what that discovery did to you, finding out that you’re quite different. I can’t wait for future videos, to learn what/ how things unfold in your mind. This is just beyond fascinating omg
I seriously doubt they are higher level humans. It sounds like they have an inability to create things etc. etc. Have you heard of the word NPC? There’s a lot to be concerned about here.
@@moonmaidenn i posted this elsewhere re NIM; Today after much studying this topic I made this conclusion; No way is better nature wants balance. There seems to be a correlation between needing to hear the sound of your own voice 24/7 and believing you are the main player. Seems that way of thinking encouraging egoism. I think it’s more evidence of something called “Audism”. You probably haven’t seen that word and need to look up that word.
❤ Qualia -Life Nootropics 😁 practice seeing like visual flash card therapy. Sharpen your weaknesses like remembering details of clothing or things that stand out. Word association really helps with picturing questions into answers.
One of the interesting about reading is that, as a person who as inner monologue, I used to read along inside my head while reading with my inner voice. That was relatively slow due to the limitations of the speed a person can speak. So I started trying to read ahead of my inner voice. What I basically did was reading as fast as possible. I still get inner voice, but due to the fast speed I'm reading at, the inner voice cannot form complete sentences, there will simply be scattered words. At first it really gives me a feeling of not understanding the whole text. But after some training I found out that I can still understand the text the same as I was reading slowly with my inner voices forming the whole sentences. I feel like people with inner monologue can actually think like a person without inner monologue, but it would create a strong sense of insecurity (a sense of missing out something) within them so they wouldn't naturally do it. It's like watching a multimedia file but intentionally ignoring the audios and only focusing on the videos.
That’s really interesting. I always avoided reading because I felt I was too slow at it because my minds voice wouldn’t read quickly. I kind of am envious of not having an inner voice although I wish I had a rich visual inner mind. It would be cool to see stories like a movie.
I understand, and experience, what you mean by "knowing", along with more typical ways of thinking. Often when I'm reading I have the same kind of soundless thought rendering "voice", or internally audible voice voice depending on a lot of factors, commonly influenced by the type or quality of the writing.
You are doing a great job. Previous video you said you weren't sure why so many people want to watch your videos. For one it is because it's a really interesting topic but I would say it's mostly because you have a radiant personality. We enjoy your spontaneity and you do it with a genuine smile. That makes you a lovable person.
well now i'm realizing why i'm a terrible active listener. It's because when someone else is speaking my inner monologue is having thoughts the ENTIRE time. and it wants to vocalize some of them but can't because they're speaking and continuing to feed new information. so it's just so loud
That's me too. I hate it but I almost always jump the gun. My mind has so many thoughts so quickly that it's overwhelming, and I hate it for the other person.
You must be an amazing listener. My thoughts compete with my ability to listen. I often need to focus heavily to truly hear what someone is trying to say. The best inner moment was once when my mind was truly silent. People meditate their whole lives just to quiet their mind chatter. Btw I love your concept of “thought rendering.”
It's been a long time since it was aploaded, but YES. It's really really close to my experience. I think of my thought process as a deprivation pool frome stranger things or that water cave in korra. Dark, no sounds, no temperature, no smells just comfy laying in the water. And the thoughts are like ripples. They come when I need them and I feel them, not anything else.
Your first video was helpful. I was shocked to learn I couldn’t “see” shapes like other people and no one else seemed to care. I have an inner monologue and I can imagine shapes and things but it’s all a “knowing” not an audible sound or a visible “picture” in my head. I now think my brain is actually more efficient then those that see or hear in their head. I instantly can preconceived what something would look like if described to me even very abstract thoughts. I can almost always just go by intuition alone and easily make decisions due to my knowing. I think that there is visual thought processors, audible processors and my type. I use 2-I think in sentences when discussing things with my inner being, my inner being answers back. I have an inner knowing of what an image would look like and I can feel what my inner being feels about what I sense I feel. Trinity-my conscious being-my inner being-my physical being
Thank you for this. I also lack a minds eye or inner monologue. I've never heard anyone describe this experience-- and I only know that I was different mainly because of going to therapy and getting the feeling that most people have discrete thoughts going on, or.. well I don't know? Not really knowing how to answer some of the questions because honestly, they never made sense to me... thoughts are just not discrete, maybe more like predictive sublimated impressions? I dunno. I read super fast (with great comprehension even), have been considered by the academy to be a very good writer, and think very quickly on my feet.... it's always been a superpower of sorts (it's almost instinctual?). I wish I understood a bit more how it all worked. I am amazed that you have a partner willing to talk with you about these very hard things to articulate because I do believe some of how we can understand our variation is in relationship to the "other."
Oh my god, this sounds AMAZING!! Like you have so much less effort and worry involved in every day conversations. I spend the entire time someone is talking to me worrying about how to answer and how to respond! I am so jealous! 😳😂
i wish i could get the voice out of my head. i’m so bad at talking and listening because i have a million different thoughts going through my head all the time. to be able to just silently listen to someone talking and then have all my thoughts flow out without having to actively think about what i want to say would be so nice
Thank you for your efforts in trying to explain. I find the whole concept very interesting. I have questions to ask, but need to think how to frame them to make the most sense.
Roughest way I can try to explain images in my head, is that it's almost like looking at a light then seeing it almost like a "burn in" type thing. All though colors can be presented, but mostly are representations of those colors... it's not a literal picture but something I RECOGNIZE as that picture.... But sometimes it can become too much and it can cause me to experience panic attacks I am envious of the clarity you must have. your videos, your story has completely changed the way I think about myself, and the way the brain works... Again you are amazing, and please make more videos!
You have given me a lot to think about with just 2 videos so far (plus reading the comments from others with Aphantasia is super helpful too), I do seem to have a normal Inner monologue, but being able to read faster without one and also being a better listener might be an improvement, I don't have any trouble going for hours without running my inner pie hole if I have nothing to say, read or think, I seem to be doing the normal subvocalization. so If someone was to watch my throat muscles in an MRI machine I'm guessing they would move a tiny bit even when I'm just thinking or reading to myself. I wonder what an MRI of your throat muscles would be doing when you are speed reading.
Minus saying stuff just because it's on my mind and not lying. We are conscious. And milk voice makes no sense to me. I don't hear anything or feel like I hear anything..
It’s almost like your brain leap frogs the step between processing the thought and speaking it out. Where as other brains would cycle through a number of visual and inaudible verbal process after conceiving the thought and before we speak the thought your brain doesn’t have to do the middle part. I’d imagine it makes you way more cognitively efficient. I wonder if it’s some kind of evolutionary adaptation? Hearing a monologue and seeing imagines while trying to think sounds great but is quite energetically expensive I’d imagine for the brain. Anyways very fascinating!
This was very fascinating, thank you! I was aware of this difference, but you’ve done the best by far at explaining it :) I definitely have an internal monologue.. and ADHD.. and hyperphantasia. Sometimes, there are multiple active “channels” for each! So, i realized I actually do identify with how you process info, because I do it that way _sometimes._ For example: if I’m reading, and especially if I’m writing, I often do “sound out” each word in my head. If I read something written by a famous person or someone I know, I often hear it in their voice - timbre, accent, inflection. But sometimes when I’m reading, my brain does the exact same “overprinting printer” thing yours does, along with just taking in the info with zero “voicing” of it. I never really parsed it out like this. As I’m writing this comment, I’m sounding out every word - but I’m also having thoughts trails on the side (“did I use that word write? Is this comment too long? Lol ‘inflection’ is a weird word when you think about it!”). However, when I was reading something more mundane for work a minute ago, I was listening to a song in my head - and because I’d just heard your description, I realized that was how I was in taking the info I was reading! It’s almost like there’s only so much room. Another example: when I mentioned having thought trails alongside writing this comment, I was _not_ fully voicing those thought trails (“is this comment too long” etc) - they were voiceless, concept-based thoughts that I just “knew,” because all of my monologuing/voicing power was being used up by the intensive task of composing a comment about a topic I’m conceptually holding in my (very poor lol) working memory.
Great video! One thing I really would be interested in hearing your perspective on would be what is your experience when alone without other human/information being presented around you? For example what do you feel when you are alone without a conversation, book to read, or something to watch that is feeding information into your subconscious?
This amazing lady is more able to express and explaine herself than many people who actually have not Aphantasia...it's like she's a purist and thinks in terms of god's language...like in all the different languages we have a different word for saying thank you...but what stands behind it is the concept that goes beyond having and image or a sound of it...it's abstract but still it's in there and even if we did forget any word for that to say...we still would be able to feel it...this lady's brain is really special...
That would be great if people thought so! I try to do my best, but now I'm a bit worried that even though I'm good at listening, I may not be as empathetic as I should be.
@@quietmindinside4808 we all can improve at something :-) learning about other ways to view this world is a huge opportunity for all of us to become a better version of ourselves and inspire others growth at the same time.
You said in the first video that you feel bad about not being able to have images in your head or inner monologue, and that everyone who can seems like superhuman. Just wanted to tell you that I feel the same about YOU. I feel like you're a superhuman and I need to make a lot of effort to put out my mind. How your brain works is so great! Haha. Also, you explained this so good. When I heard that there is people who can't "imagine" or have inner monologue, I thought I will never be able to understand how those people can survive. Now I'm like damn, those people really know how to survive, they literally just know. Cheers!
Such a fascinating topic. My experience is pretty much the same, but not ultimately. I would say I have close to none existent imagery, inner dialogue, sound, smell, and taste recollection. I can imagine shapes, and sometimes there are flashes of images - especially memories, but it is so fast and intense, so there are no details to focus on. I would probably say on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is complete aphantasia; then I am a two or a 3. I am also utterly useless with names, and I can pretty much agree that my mental process is more centered on knowing that the information I receive as inputs are somewhere inside processed as pictures, and sounds, and monologue, and so forth, but my conscious output only uses what is needed. I am, for some reason, very good at abstract thoughts, parallel thinking; for instance, I can read a text and listen to a podcast simultaneously and “understand” the content. I like to think this is an “upside.” But I cannot imagine a song in my head or remember the details of any still image or video. So my mind's eye, ears, tongue, and nose might not be entirely out of functions but hidden in the background abstracted away, still processing information for me. Still, only output the information I need to take any action and so in a minimalistic matter. I did not enjoy school at all when it came to how teachers were teaching things. I pretty much preferred to study on my own, and I had no problems, with nowhere close to maximum effort, getting an engineering degree. I could have done it entirely on my own, honestly, but I think that is probably more of a side effect and skill developed because the schools were not tailored for people like us.
What is anxiety and things like adhd like for people with no inner monologue? It must be noticeable with biological signs or something. Wild to think about. I couldn't imagine not having an inner monologue. I thought that was a universal human experience.
This is fascinating. You must have a dynamite processing speed on intelligence tests. For me, mine is very, very slow because I take so much times to work things out, process them, filter them. That's just crazy. And SO fascinating because my bachelor's is in psychology and social behavior so this is enthralling to me. Thank you so much for sharing so eloquently!
I've actually been thinking that I should put up some videos of me doing puzzles or something so that we can all kind of do them together and compare speeds 😂. I'm sure there are some things that take me way longer to do!
This is a step by step tutorial on how to put words too how my brain processes inputs/outputs. Helped me tremendously as I for the first time could verbalize it to my wife who has vivid visual and audio sensations. Looking forward to your next video!
Thanks, this was super interesting. I think it's cool that you have the quietness in your mind to be able to describe your unvoiced thinking process. It's hard for me to imagine how you would be able to speak and think without an inner voice. At the same time, when our inner voice speaks there isn't a conscious process turning our thoughts into that voice, it just happens. There's no voice telling the inner voice how to speak. I imagine the process of you turning thoughts into speech is the same.
I am enthralled to learn about this! It never occurred to me that a person did not think the way I think. I wonder, then, if any negative speak you took in as a child (or positive) has had an impact on your adulthood. Because I was a sensitive and "mushy, lovey" child, anything negative wounded me deeply and left lasting scars on me. I tell myself negative things all the time and have to "correct" that inner voice. A life-long struggle.
I have a real hard time with negative comments. I've always been like that. Even if I can't remember the actual comment, I will hang on to that feeling you get for a long time. I'm sure I've still been affected by them, but I just can't relive them as vividly.
It's like you live your life in front of a curtain. You experience everything that 'we' do but it all goes behind the curtain. When you need something- a thought, a word- you just reach behind you between the curtain and bring out what you need. You don't have to turn around.
I think a good example of how inner monologue feels/sounds is the episode of bojack horseman “stupid piece of shit.” He’s talking to himself in a way that is familiar. They’re not all negative thoughts obviously, but the way the show presented it is very accurate. I’d recommend you check out the beginning of that episode to understand an inner monologue better!
As a kid I intuited this and learned to quiet my voice, at least temporarily. I knew I could think silently but found that using words was far more natural. I can totally understand how you can just know something without articulating it.
I have Aphantasia as well. Just realized just a few months before my 50th birthday because I saw a Tiktok video about it. Started asking people I know if they can see pictures in their head and they all said yes. My mind was blown! I can totally relate to what you are saying. I work on facts, and how things make me feel. I am very rational and matter of fact. My mind filters through the facts and the emotions from the other person or myself attached to the subject of the conversation. I don't remember places by a picture, but by the elements I remember it having.
I am very curious about those without the inner monologue. Do you love deeply? Have you been deeply in love or do you desire to be? What do you do when you have to create something as in draw a picture or right a story as in a school? Do you think you could invent sometime? What did you experience while being on hallucinogens such as mushrooms. Thank you kindly
I recently (like, today) ran across this information.... and aphantasia would explain a LOT of the differences in how I think compared to most popele I've known.... I've been telling people for years that the process most people go through thinking, that is, in language, how I experience thought seems to be, well, I've said that instead of thinking in words, I think conceptually, which is almost as difficult to explain, but I think is the concept you're going after with the phrase "thought rendering" . How I've explained this to people kind of matches what you're saying...... I don't think (or remember) things in tiny tidbits.... the information or memory or thought or whatever comes in whole, like a concept (hence my term conceptual thinking) and not like distinct words, sentences, and paragraphs.... I've found it easiest to compare it to that scene in the Matrix where Neo learns kung fu, like it's just there in its entirety.... ..... I've found, over the years, too, that I'm what they term a claircognizant empath, and that seems to tie into this thing of the way my brain works and how I relate to the "external'" world. I get how you describe reading, like I read almost as fast as a speed reader, but I AM NOT speed reading.... my brain just skips over all the and, thes, buts, etc, just automatically rendering them and I somehow get the gist of the sentences without actually "reading" it the same way most people seem to have to do..... oh and the speaking thing? I call it "stream of consciousness speaking"; I'm pretty sure it's pretty much the same thing by the way you're describing it. And when I'm typing, my fingers often cannot keep up with how fast my brain wants them to go LOL You do a pretty decent job of explaining your personal experience. Thanks for the videos... very interesting.
@@coltonhester3097 I'm glad you appreciate the terminology I've offered. My linguistic skills do seem to be on the higher end of the spectrum, at least for English speakers and I make conscious efforts to express my thought processes as precisely and accurately as I am capable. I have spent much time attempting to understand the differences in my thought processes that I have become aware of...... as it has caused a bit if a disconnect between me and those around me at times, and those differences have caused me no little bit of distress on occasion. If my comprehension of this thing called aphantasia has added to your personal comprehension, that pleases me immeasurably. I love learning new things about anything, really, to do with how we humans experience reality and relate to it and to each other. Thank you.
@@thebanddeaddolls I appreciate your clear conceptual ideal of how are empathy is different from normal people, I have been struggling with the concept that I could be a psychopathic or a sociopath and this makes me feel more capable to improve and open my understanding to the knowledge about my condition. I am not very articulate with my written words but when it comes to use of verbal language I do excel above the average person around me. I only recently have been feeding into philosophical thought process. Thank you again for sharing your ideas with us.
Great descriptions. I discovered I have aphantasia maybe 8 or 9 years ago when I stumbled across an article written by someone else who'd just discovered they had it. I'm a 0 on the visual imagery scale, just blank nothingness when I think of something or try to visualize. I do visualise when I dream, although I rarely remember having dreamt. Very occasionally, in that in between sleep and awake phase, I do see fleeting images in my mind eye, however they are random images rather than being related to any thoughts in processing at the time. The way you described reading & writing was really interesting too, I'd never tied that together with the lack of mental imagery. Your description also made me realize why I had so much trouble writing at school. I'd often write words in a jumbled order as I couldn't write quickly enough to keep up with the very quiet voice dictating to me in my head. Sometimes when I'm reading non-fiction, or more often paperwork, i turn the voice off so I can read faster. With fiction, it's almost like someone is reading the book to me but without actually hearing the voice, if that makes sense? I don't see, hear, smell, feel, anything mentioned in the book, just the words on the page. Thanks for the videos, I'm looking forward to watching more :)
Honestly this is so fascinating my brain never shuts up and im constantly hearing my thoughts all day so seeing how you live and see things so differently is cool to learn about!
For me the coolest thing to hear you talk about was reading! I read at a medium-slow pace because, for example, if I'm reading a novel I'll "think" every word in the characters' voices (or how I imagine their voices would sound) at normal-speech-pace. If I try to read at the pace you describe for yourself, it's a lot harder for me to take in the information, similar to how it's harder to process the words of someone who's speaking very fast out loud. (This now has me second-guessing myself lol. Does everyone else also find it harder to process very quick speech? I just assumed so!) (Also I wanted to add that your husband's description of speaking vs. listening is very accurate for me too!)
That sounds so cool that you can read in different voices! I'm pretty jealous of that. I always thought I really got a lot out of reading, but now I'm hearing about all these other incredible things you guys experience! Arrrrrr 😂.
monsune yes I was thinking the same thing! Seems like her brain works a lot faster, especially with the reading, like there’s nothing else in there to get in the way, so it’s way more efficient. Very interesting!
Yes! I feel like I'm overanalyzing now. How did I do that? Is that how everyone else does it? I ask my husband constantly all day, "What are you seeing now?"
Thats cool. Your subconscious does what our inner thoughts do without the interaction. I would imagine you're a very decisive person too. So interesting. Scientists should study you
Your explanations are excellent! This will be very helpful in my quest to stop using words with my thinking. I already suspected much of what you said. Clearly, your form of thought is more efficient in numerous ways. I also believe there are forms of thinking even higher. Thank you!
Super interesting. I was diagnosed when I was a kid with ADHD but was never treated for it or understood all the aspects of my life that it affected (btw was all aspects) until now at age 40 like you said ..reddit ruined my life...lol... Unlike you I’ve NEVER had a quiet moment inside my head I lived with an inner monologue that just won’t shut up it’s like having the tv. On in the bedroom while trying to watch a movie In the living room ..constant chatter. I just thought everyone was like me. Was blown away when I started meds at how peaceful it could be,this is how the non ADHD brain feels!
That's such a great description! Thanks so much for that. I've actually become super interested in ADHD since I found out that most everyone can see images in their heads. I just think it would be hard for everyone to concentrate with all that going on. But your explanation is very clear. So is your inner monologue completely silent now, or you just have the ability to turn it off?
Quiet Mind Inside when I first started the meds I had peace and quiet no channel surfing...lol.. lately I’ve been having some overlapping thoughts but I noticed it’s seems to happen later in the evening when the drug is leaving my system and my ADHD brain is coming back. I wish I had the ability to control the thoughts and turn them on or off ..I have to say that the switch would always be off though;);) ...but I have zero control. With medication it’s off without 100% back on unfortunately.
You're doing a great job trying to explain the impossible! This is all so fascinating to me. I have a very active inner monologue (im speaking this in my head as i type) and i have a close to photographic memory and ability to visualize in my head. Id love to see an MRI of people's brain activity on the different experiences of thought and how similar or different they are! When you mentioned listening, I learned I was at an advantage of essentially being able to hear everything twice (almost like a read along in my head with whatever I'm hearing) and a disadvantage bc it sometimes has to work its way through other stuff! Like having a conversation while music is playing and a tv is on.
Just learned of this yesterday. Been binge learning about it. Your brain telling your legs where to go is a great analogy to make me understand what and how you think. Thanks for that.
In my personal experience, the best way I've found to describe thoughts as "knowing" is by using dreams as an example. Often times in dreams you'll simply know who a person is. Even if you wake up and recall that they looked different, or you never got a good look at their face. It's just an assumption or a feeling you made in the moment and that's all that matters to you when interpreting what you're experiencing. You simply "know" who it is. I definitely don't have aphantasia but I'm very close to it on whatever the "imagination spectrum" is. It's incredibly hard for me to visualize things. I can daydream but rarely is it ever actually visual, it mostly exists in the abstract "knowing" space. The closest I get to actually physically seeing things is when I get closer to falling asleep after laying in bed for a while. Same goes for the daydreams. It would appear that the more conscious I am, the less visually active my mind's eye is. Reading feels identical as well. The less "into" the book I am, the less I see, starting with absolutely nothing. But if I get more engrossed in the book and become more meditative on the work and lose myself in it, then I can begin to see more of the world as it's written. My inner monologue seems to work along the same lines. When I'm entirely conscious and present, I can manifest an inner speech on command if I so choose, but rarely is it thoughts being expressed to me verbally as if I'm the observer. I'm usually the one actively speaking aloud in my head. But when I daydream or get closer to falling asleep that opens up into much more activity. As a general rule of thumb though, if I'm entirely conscious and present, I'm only ever really able to experience my own thoughts in my head in the form of my own voice. Visuals and all that simply exist as a feeling of their essence more often than not.
I subscribed to your channel after your first video because the way you explain how you think and how you talk about this whole topic is amazing. I felt like after the first video I totally understand how a person's brain without an internal monologue and aphantasia works, even though I know everyone is different. You do a really great job at explaining everything.
Thanks so much! I'm really glad that it's helpful. It's honestly really hard to come up with explanations, so I'm really trying my best to be as clear as I can.
Your experience is also my experience. However, you have been much more successful explaining it to others than I have, although I have resorted to the analogy of the computer without a screen. Steven Pinker's concept of mentalese also provides some satisfying explanations. I was slightly envious that you are actually able to 'hear?' some musical performances: I cannot, no matter how many times I listen to them. That being said, counting marbles presents no difficulties, and I can perform complex mathematical computations in my head. And yes, your analogy with the malfunctioning printer makes perfect sense.
I'm so glad you found my explanations accurate. I find it so hard to figure out the best way to say things because I never really thought about it before. My brain just works doing its brain stuff 😄. I've been looking into the mentalese as well, and it seems interesting. I also picked up a book on inner voices to try and learn more. Hopefully, I can get to it this week. I'm so sorry about the music. If it helps, I don't actually get to pick the song that I hear. Something just gets stuck in there. Often it's the theme songs for my kids' favorite shows. Not fun.
Think also about audio recordings of your family. My husband recently died and I have no recollection of the sound of his voice after hearing it daily for more than 50 years. Heart breaking.
One issue I run into is that I’m super confident about what I’m saying, like with the favorite vacation example. After the person I’m talking to finishes, an answer just blurts out of my mouth and I always feel like I didn’t actually mean it or I’m forgetting that ONE vacation ya know.
Just came across your video! What I find interesting about your reading and the way you handle words, I could never. My inner voice reads it for me/with me, and if they’re not done yet, I cannot go to the next sentence..! Thanks for uploading your videos, super interesting!
Thanks for taking the time to make these videos! I really enjoy your enthusiasm and way of explaining the differences. I don't know if you've gotten these questions before but here they are... 1- When you were a little girl what was your favorite toy or activity? 2- Did you ever imagine your wedding dress (apparently a typical girly thing to do) and/or did have trouble planning your wedding or was it much easier than you thought it would be? 3- Do you have trouble getting to sleep or is it relatively easy to stop any thought processes? 4- I know you talked about music but what goes through your mind when you look at a painting or any kind of visual art and then try to talk about it to someone who hasn't seen that piece or exhibit? Obviously you don't have to answer any of my questions. I'm sorry if they seem strange.
1. So really young, I was into Barbies. As I got older, I liked to write stories. 2. No, I never imagined a wedding or wedding dress. 3. I generally fall asleep quite easily. I do have times where my mind feels full, and it's harder, but that's rare. 4. When I see a painting, I just see what's literally there. The colors, the objects. I can enjoy classical works because they are pictures of things, but modern art has always looked like a bunch of messy nothing to me. It doesn't evoke strong feelings. I don't know if that is because of my aphantasia or I'm just not an arty person, though.
@@quietmindinside4808 that's so interesting! Thanks for answering my odd questions. I was partly curious to see if it's the way your brain works compared to mine or if it could also be down to other differences and similarities. As far as dreams go, you'd said you get the sense or feeling something is happening rather than the visual. Honestly, I can't say which is better. Having a vivid imagination means I can recall horror movies at any point from my life and freak myself out so I can't get to sleep or it'll interrupt my sleep. On the other hand, I can also manipulate my dreams, especially recurring ones. Neither of which is very restful so I envy your quiet mind.
@@choochmagooch5200 I actually hate horror movies! I can handle gore, but ones with ghosts or supernatural stuff, no way! I can feel those feelings of fear even though I can't replay the movie in my head, and I hate it.
Thank you for making this video. I lived 45 years without realizing that people had inner voices and could picture things in their minds. Your descriptions are great and, for the most part, match my thought processes. Reading was similar, but the word "mash up" is not a thing for me. Your comparison of walking to speaking was great, and i will use it. I have trouble with understanding the logistics of inner voice and speach. Seems complicated.. haha. I am perfectly happy without, but dont know what im missing. Thanks again.
Maybe what you mostly do is what someone termed "Unsymbolized Thinking," which basically includes awareness of a thought but without words or pictures. I just want you to know that I understood every single thing you said, even the wonky printer analogy, even though I don't read like that. But at the same time, actually seeing the letters as a word and consciously processing its meaning is burdensome to me. 😊Thank you for making the effort to share what's going on in your mind.
The way you "force" the inner voice, I think is actually pretty close to how most people "hear" the inner monologue. It isn't ACTUALLY sound that we hear. But we do think the words, and we just describe it as "hearing" them. If you can THINK a word, then you are doing what we are doing. You just don't have the same habit as most people, of turning your thoughts into inner words. You experience them more as feelings. We have the feelings too, but we notice the words more because we are more language driven than feeling driven within the process of thinking.
Quiet minder here...when I listen to people speaking my mind is quiet but I notice the speakers posture,facial expressions, tone of voice, how they are looking at me ECT and that causes me to react in my own expressions posture ECT to what they are saying. I also look at the other people in the room to get a feel of what they are thinking/feeling. I think my quiet mind helps me feel the room out and be a really good listener...
My usuall inner monologue is like your thought rendering (no pitch). If I remember a dialogue or if I make one up with different people, I can imagine a different pitch for everyone, if I want to. For example: when I recreate a song in my head I remember all voices and sounds. I don't actually hear them with my ears, but it's in my head. The same with mental images. I can recreate something or someone I saw, or something I read, or heard, as an image. I don't see it with my eyes, I just mentally recreate it. The more details I remember, the more accurately I can recreate them. I still remember my late father's voice, even 10 years after his death, and can recreate it in my mind. So I can imagine us talking to each other, sitting in the living room of my childhood home. Of course there are people I don't remember their voice, and I can't recreate it ("hear it") in my mind. I can also create in my mind new unknown logical or illogical/fantastic images. Less as an adult compared to when I was a kid. As a kid I could also create more prevalent images ("I could see them more clearly"). I guess that's why we say kids have more imagination. All the above are manifestations of memories, thoughts and emotions. "Loud" voices and "life-like" images in my mind are words that decribe my prevalent thoughts and emotions at that time. That's why we can't make our inner monologue to shut up: because it's one of the ways our brain handles our emotions. Question for you: when you count objects inside your head, do you "say"/"think" the numbers?
That's all very interesting. You explain it really well, so it's making a lot more sense to me. The ability to hear other people's voices in your head sounds really amazing, too! When I count things, usually I want to do it out loud. That's always my first instinct. If I can't for some reason, I can use that forced thought rendering. But, I can't do any complicated math with it. I'd have to write stuff down if the numbers got too big. I was talking to someone else like me, and he mentioned that his working memory like this is not very good either. If you say more than a 4 digit number to me, I have a hard time holding on to it unless I can say it out loud. I imagine I vocalize a lot of what you guys say to yourselves with your inner voices.
@@quietmindinside4808 what I understand is that you also have an inner voice, because basically what it is, is thoughts. Maybe it's different from mine because you don't manipulate it, and isn't easily and always available, which I guess has to do with Aphantasia. In order to remember something I have repeat it many times inside my head, but as most people, it's easier if I say it out loud. And for complicated math (not from memory) I of course need pen and paper. Do you focus easily? When I study, if I'm tired or not in the mood, random thoughts just come up and while my eyes see the words one after another, I don't pay attention to what I read, so I have to read it again.
@@joleeaek I'm beginning to think there must be a difference between inner voice and inner monologue. Because I can sense thoughts I put in there, but random thoughts don't "speak" to me. I just picked up a book about inner voices so that I can learn more about them. I definitely still lose focus when I'm reading something boring or tired, but I'm just blank. I stare into space and just really "space out". I guess it's like sleeping with my eyes open? I don't really have conscious thoughts that I'm aware of.
@@quietmindinside4808 when we usually say monologue we mean that we think in words. For example I can feel worried about completing a project on time, without forming any words in my mind. I know what I feel because i feel it. Or I could be actively thinking "I wish I had more time, I hate deadlines". In both cases I feel the same, in the second case I also "speak to myself", think in words, hence the phrase "inner monologue". Most of the times the second case happens automatically, is a manifestation of my emotions in word form, and can't suppress it. And I wish I could make it stop, because it stresses me even more: that's what means to overthink.
@@quietmindinside4808 If a train goes by and there are 25 railcars in it, can you give the correct count without writing anything or moving any physical tallies; can you do it all in your head silently? Suppose you had nothing else important to do at the time, but someone offered you $500 if you could give the correct count. They're going by at about two per second.
I have aphantasia but I do have an inner monologue. I really like the way you describe how you read. It's similar to the way I read as well. When I'm reading, I'm going much faster than I would if my inner monologue were to read out the words. I love your image of a fast dot matrix printer that's just zooming line after line because that's really sort of what it's like for me. In terms of the way you describe speaking without having an inner monologue, I agree that while there are times I will use my inner monologue to practice something I want to say, usually I don't. It's similar to the way I write/type. I'm not planning on what I'm going to write/type using my inner monologue and then typing out what I've decided to write... although there are definitely times that I will use my inner monologue to work out how I want to say something... and then there are times that I can feel my inner monologue trying to hash out language on something when I need to work on something. One of the things that this video helped remind me is that there's definitely a difference between my inner monologue and my thought process. I've definitely noticed that there are times I'll notice something or reach a conclusion and it's not a result of any sort of inner monologue. Usually that's when I'll use my inner monologue to try to figure out how got where I did. Conversely, I can certainly use my inner monologue to talk myself in one direction or another.
Okay real question: how the hell do you plan things? How do you debate ideas in your brain? Stuff like "should I take a cab or ask my husband to drive me to that place I want to go to?" What about long-term planning? "Thinking" about your life goals? Is everything handled by your unconscious mind? This just blows my mind as it has some interesting implications on our idea of conscious thought and what it means to be human.
All the thoughts are still in my head, and I work through things, I just don't see or hear the process. Do you ever make decisions without an image or talking it out in your head? For example, if you're at a coffee shop, do you need to debate every choice or do you just make one? When I read a menu, I just pick what I want after looking at the choices. Any internal debate is done subconsciously I guess. Sometimes I'll change my mind after I've said something, just like anyone else. But I don't hear a voice in my head saying "oh no, don't pick that one", I just get a feeling. As for long-term planning, I suck at it. I don't really do it at all. I might plan a vacation for the upcoming year, but that's about it. I've always been very "whatever will happen, will happen". It blows my mind that everyone seems to be seeing things all the time! When I made this first video, I thought it was just when you were daydreaming or reliving a memory, but from what people have been telling me, that's not the case. It's like all day long! It seems incredibly distracting. I don't know how you guys do it.
it's funny, when you said your brain is empty when you are talking to someone I could suddenly relate this to the past. I often had a conversation (still have sometimes) that I kind of wanted to fill the silence in a conversation because I'am not constantly thinking about everything, but someone else is. Must be hard.
I think it's so interesting that people can go their whole lives without knowing the other type of person exists! It shows that there is no "wrong" way of thinking, as clearly your aphantasia and lack of an inner voice has not handicapped you in any way!
I saw a video of a guy asking a psychologist multiple questions about this and one of them were "do people with an inner monologue have mental ilness", the psychologist didn't answer that question BUT for the past 3 days I've been not only couped up but also trapped hearing my every thought and then feeling bad about it. I managed to calm myself down today but this comment makes it better!! I love that I can visualize and think this way and I wished I had appreciated it earlier in life!!
Indeed, one big advantage of the internet is being able to communicate with such a broad range of people. :)
@AMBEDO when I heard that most people have internal monologues I was feeling as if it was something wrong with me because I don't have it. Only visual imagery + feelings combination as the way of processing information so don't worry. And you and me are completely OK.
I have been surprised by the people who have a 24/7 inner monologue but I have always assumed we have totally different activity going on in our brains, at least from our perspectives. I believe we see and hear things slightly different with our actual senses. I know we can taste things radically differently, like people with the ‘cilantro tastes like soap’ gene. We also have experienced that influence our senses. We also have different learning styles, creative and analytical types, intelligence of different categories, and that’s not even scratching the surface of mental health, and how that can impact things… especially if you experience mood swings. So if our senses and experiences can be different, and we can have totally different learning styles, intelligence styles, brain chem, etc, our thought processes and conscious minds probably come with a lot of variety.
As someone with ADHD and an internal monologue that never shuts up this is very fascinating. Even as I watched the video I realized I was thinking and humming a song without consciously doing it. I’m not sure if the way i think it’s “normal” but I’ve always felt like I have multiple layers of thought, like there’s always the main conscious thought but if i think about it I notice the other layers of thought that are usually completely disconnected. It’s like when you notice you’re automatically breathing, my brain never stops thinking multiple thoughts and the more i notice it usually the more prevalent they are. I’d give a lot to stop thinking for a while.
I once saw a description of ADHD/ADD as:
- Having 10 TV channels turned on at the same time.
I recently found out that I have ADD too, at the age of 30. And it was an amazing discovery, as I now know to forgive myself and do things that help me work with ADD.
I found out I have ADD by trying to find solutions to my procrastination and forgetfulness. And articles and self-help ADD and ADHD videos popped up into my feed and then it "clicked" for me.
I then went to my doctor who sent me to a psychiatrist that confirmed my suspicion.
The drugs that are available however, can be harmful in many ways, and so I have decided to avoid that for now.
After realizing what ADD and ADHD is, I also found out that my father, brother, wife and her parents have ADD, by asking them the right questions.
Obviously Im not a psychiatrist, but I am an INFJ personality type, so it was easy for me to come to that conclusion, that they have the same struggles every day.
We can only hold a few pieces of information at any given time, which is why we forget things easily.
Simply put, the short term memory in ADD/ADHD people is terrible, while our long-term memory is working way better.
People with ADD/ADHD are much more aware of everything in their surroundings, be it movements, sounds, shadows, birds, facial expressions etc. which we cant help but react to. Turning our heads, listening in on conversations by accident, which is why it is almost impossible for us to focus while being surrounded by all sorts of noise.
We are however very good hunters because of this, as we respond immediately to changes in the environment, as we take in the full spectrum of light, shadows, movement, different noises, without focusing too much on one channel at a time.
But this is also a problem when trying to hold a conversation, as we get distracted easily, which then infuriate people, as we seem disinterested.
However, the biggest problem we have is not our attention span. The real problem is our lack of dopamine responses, which makes it almost impossible to do tasks that we are disinterested in.
Simply put. ADD/ADHD people find it nearly impossible to do work, if they dont feel like it. Instead they want to do something interesting which often leads to other projects or procrastination.
This can lead to our bosses firing us or having issues with our work, as we cant start and finish in good time. Instead we wait till the last second, where we will find our motivation.
I really relate to this
@@ragingsvendsen7960 taking Adderall for the first time was amazing. All my brain noise just quieted instantly. Adderal showed me a whole new world of how I should be. But it’s dangerous stuff so I came off of it. Since coming off adderall, I switched to taking Intramax (because I suspected severe vitamins deficiencies probably weren’t helping my brain). The tyrosine helps me focus, the glutathione helps calm down the glutamate in my brain. I also switched to gluten free because in my case, it was causing severe neurological issues with me. Speech issues too. And then I incorporated medical cannabis. The combo of all of that has gotten rid of my daytime fatigue, my inability to move in the mornings, my scattered brain, my messy room and house is now organized, I can talk to people without completely tuning out.. It’s literally like I’m a new person.
Yep…ADHD, I can hear and see a person speaking and simultaneously “hear and see” a memory or something I create in my mind.
I love our neurodiversity. We are pegs with unique shapes. Our society’s preference for “average” maximizes normality, leaving us off to the side until we find our spot.
Same. ADHD overthinker with multiple layers of thought. Best moment ever was when my mind was once totally quiet. Also people meditate for years just to eventually quiet their minds.
Are you a teacher? You have done a really good job of explaining how your brain works for someone like me at the end of the spectrum where everything I think is extremely vivid. I daydream constantly and can literally live in my head and picture things like a movie. It’s good and bad, good for long drives but bad for being present in the real world.
I'm so glad it makes sense! It's so hard to explain, especially when I really can't fathom how things are in your head either.
I do think that if I could daydream as you do that I would have a hard time living in the real world.
I want to learn how to do that
@@quietmindinside4808 as I'm reading ur comment I kinda hear ur voice reading it inside my head
What do we do if our sub conscious works like this but sometimes it is wrong. Sometimes it takes a lot to bring everything to consciousness
@@quietmindinside4808 it seems real world is subjective :)
As a fellow "Aphant" and quiet mind, I have to say you did a really great job with your explanations and analogies! Far better than I could ever articulate. You're spot on with everything!
I have aphantasia, and limited inner monologue. Like I can think words to myself, but if I am not actively thinking of something my mind is completely blank. Makes going to bed at night very easy. Also you describe the inner "voice" perfectly There is no sound per se just like you said a "thought rendering". Like when you mouth the words. You are making the words, but nothing is coming out.
Thanks! I thinks it's hard coming up with clear ways to describe these things, so it's good hear that it makes sense! I like your description of mouthing words without sound coming out, too. Very much feels like that.
I said this on another video where someone was talking about how they don’t have an inner monologue, but I’ve always wished my entire life that I could shut up the voice in my head that has to read every word when I’m reading. Because of this I absolutely hate to read. It’s so hard for me to actually take information in without reading the same sentence multiple times because not only is the sound of my own voice distracting but I can also be talking in my head about something entirely unrelated at the same time. Without control over it.
Wow, that seems very confusing. I'm not sure if I could cope with it. Do you listen to audio books at all? Or would the same thing happen? I can't do audio books because I forget things while reading and have to go back and check, so I need the book to flip through.
Quiet Mind Inside Audio books are better, but I always prefer to watch a show or a movie over reading a book. Just because I can actually take in all of the information and it can provoke thoughts without the distracting voice reciting every word. I mean even as I am typing this my brain is saying each word in my voice as I write it. Not before I write it, but literally as I type each word my brain is saying it in my head
I love reading. I can see it all like a movie, and get totally lost in the book. I can absorb at an astonishing rate, I think. My "power of concentration" can shut out everything but the book - the absorption is so intense that I cease to hear sounds around me, including someone calling my name!
@@alicegrillo2488 Wow! That's amazing! I love to read, but it's definitely not nearly as immersive. I really feel like I'm missing out.
Candice Cooper same
You are so freakin' amazing in your ability to articulate something that is so hard for us to wrap our brains around. Thank you for this!
Thanks so much! It's so hard to find the right words, so it's great to know it's all making sense 😄!
I have been trying to explain how my thoughts work for so long and this helped me articulate it, thank you. I also dont have an inner monologue or visual thought process.
I just had a revelation: I think what you're describing is how we...or I, at least...operate in an emergency. Some authoritative, "I have to take care of this now", person is activated, and my chatter and inner "stuff" turns off. I do what I have to do, with no preparation, consideration, worry. Wow.. How wonderful life would be if I could always move through life like this! You are lucky.
You gotta be crazy, how having a mental disorder its a good thing?
So, she is basically the ultimate Zen master.
That's what I thought....these days everyone is looking at "mindfulness" and the skill of meditating and emptying your mind of extraneous thoughts
Yeah, she's definitely got an unfair advantage at transcendental meditation.
Took me forever to learn how to turn all that crap off, that's constantly circulating around in my mind...
I can't meditate and it's so boring
Actually no, I also have aphantasia (only found out a few months ago :D) and meditating is still super hard... I don't have an "inner voice" it is more like I am whispering to myself... and I can't seem to shut the hell up when trying to meditate :D
but then again I guess there are as many different forms as there are people with it so... she actually might be the ultimate zen master :D
GUYS I KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON as someone who has done a lot of meditation that involves listening to or trying to control or observe the voice in your head I can tell you that we also think without words. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS!!!! first the thought abstractly comes up think of it as less of a thought but more of an understanding when you see the brown colour of the carpet you know it's brown it's more of an immediate understanding a wordless thought we're it's an immediate comprehension. Then within about a second your inner monologue puts your thought into a sentence of the language you speak the most or the most comfortable with. Your mind doesn't actually need to do this for you to understand your thoughts it's just a mechanism that we've developed due to the way we have to do various things in life formulating our thoughts into words to talk or writing for school, for most of us it becomes an automatic process that takes place in our heads moments before we speak and if we don't actually speak out loud then it just takes place either way.
This is a very good description. Thank you! It is just an understanding. I heard someone else call it "hyperconceptualizing". Everything in my head is just concepts and ideas until I verbalize them or write them down.
Quiet Mind Inside Exactly, I'm glad you were able to understand what I was trying to get out there. Sometimes simply telling people it's an understanding doesn't get through lol.
I've never meditated before. What is it like? What do you hear or think during the process?
Your explanation has made me realize what’s going on with me. I used to be kinda like you...where everything happened subconsciously and I said what came up without...calculating it first. But then I took mushrooms and EVERYTHING CHANGED. I had to tell my legs to move to walk during the experience. It’s like I left the surface of my body (where “i” resided before) and went BEHIND my subconscious. The only thing I didn’t consciously have to think about was my breathing and heartbeat. But I went “behind” every thought process, etc. The experience was very beautiful and freeing. But afterward... I couldn’t go back to being my surface level self. I couldn’t remember who I was. All of my automatic responses were WIPED CLEAN. I felt depressed and like NOTHING had purpose. These days I reside and slide somewhere between the two. Luckily some of who I used to be comes back...so that I can “fit into society” when I need to. It’s like being a baby again. With no direction. Anyway, just wanted to share and maybe this can help someone. Thanks for sharing too. ❤️
I am so intrigued by this... My mind is blown that my mind can be blow in such a way... How both sides are so taken back by the other... How is this just coming to light? Like I have chills and don’t know why I can’t get over it. Lol I really hope you continue these videos, cause I’ll continue to watch and support. I am ready to find out how you day dream without the visualization of those dreams. I felt with the first couple videos, jealous of this way of mental processing. If I could shut my mental (in both definitions of the word) voice up and my vivid flashbacks off once in awhile I think “how far I could be right now”, yet watching your first video got me choked up when you were talking about memories. I am all in keep posting pretty please.
Thanks for the lovely comment. I will try my best to explain as much as I can. I honestly didn't expect so much interest. When I made the first video, I didn't 100% believe my mind was actually different. To tell you the truth, I can't even really watch my first video because it does still make me sad. But thinking about how my brain works is kind of a good distraction from feeling bad about my lack of visual memories.
I have always been embarrassed by having a quiet mind. People would often say to me, “I can just see your mind spinning” when in fact I wasn’t thinking anything. I didn’t know having an inner monologue was a thing. I also don’t have a minds eye. I did have a very successful career in the sciences and IT, and in leadership positions. Understanding computers has always been very easy for me. Overall though I have felt apart but never understood why. Glad I found your channel.
I can't fathom not having an inner monologue, but I have to say that it does make things crazy for because I have inattentive ADHD, so my mind never stops - ever. It's exhausting. Not having an inner monologue seems like it would be more peaceful and calmer.
The conversation between you and your husband was a good analogy. In casual conversation I wouldn't need to think about every word or say it out in my mind but when receiving information from the other person i.e our beach holiday - I would see images of those memories and it would give me context needed to form my reply. I would then extract information from those images based on the most vivid memories or imagery. What are memories for you if you cannot see or recreate them in your mind? Also it makes me smile when you say "i was thinking" or "when i imagine" because your not thinking or imagining in the way I thought those words meant. This is so mind boggling and bizarre to me. I cant wrap my head around it 🤯 But it must be much weirder for you to think most of us are going around hearing our thoughts and seeing images in our mind most of the time 🤪
It's very true that I find it absolutely bizarre you are all not stark raving mad with all that going on in your heads 😂!
My memories are there, but somehow I'm accessing them without picture or sound. It's like I have a blueprint or schematic, perhaps like binary code, and I'm able to babble out words from that information. When I recall a memory, I just get a flash of info dump, and it's not until I start talking that it takes shape. How I speak in a conversation about regular stuff is how all my speaking happens, even when accessing memories. The information is just there when I need it without consciously working with it first.
JM: I suppose, technically, she's not "imagining" as much as some other form of "cognizing". Perhaps we don't even have a good word for aphantasic cognition in that regard because it seems to be a minority experience.
QMI: We are all stark raving mad. But perhaps this all might make for you a different kind of sense out of the rise in the popularity of mindfulness meditation. From what I can tell, the inner voice is a phenomenon only a few thousand years old.
@@quietmindinside4808 But does that mean you need to speak the information or get it outside your mind before you can start editing and working with it?
Silence. Don't underrate it. I wish my brain could shut up and be silent, yet it constantly brings stuff up. Like when I go to bed. Silence would be amazing! Then I didn't have to go through my "files" (pictures/monologue) and relive everything I did wrong that could have been done differently. It feels like a slideshow. It's one though after the other, so when you are done with one, the next "slide" comes up, and then the next one, and next one. It takes me forever to fall asleep, because I relive the moment, monologue and the feeling. If I feel like I did something wrong, the feeling is there. So I can't make the "lump" in my stomach go away, it stays there for a looong time. Don't underrate silence. I envy you for it 😊
you can still have anxiety with this. i have this plus an anxiety disorder, the files and reliving just isnt a visual image. we still have regrets and memories.
Imo, I think the best way to explain how she experiences life is like during meditation where you quite you inner voice (stop talking to yourself) and stop imagining things (visualizing images in your head). Instead, you just look around yourself and experience. You know where you are, what your looking at, and you can speak without the need of the inner voice and eyes.
I found out the other day that my girlfriend doesn't have an internal monologue, however, she does seem to be able to visualize things pretty well. It has been difficult for her to explain what it's like in her head. Very interesting watching your videos, thank you.
I just came across Aphantasia on RUclips and thought this sounds like me. So I was looking at other videos and I still couldn’t understand their explanation on it, and they were talking too fast for me. Then I found your videos and became an instant subscriber. I’m 59 years old and I never knew that people could actually see things in their head, let alone hear them. Thanks
My inner voice changes throughout the day. It's like having a conversation with yourself but without speaking out loud. I was watching Mindy Kaling last night and my inner voice started sound like her. lol I can speak much faster and clearer inside my head. Ill also say things a certain way but they end up coming out differently. I like the analogy of subconsciously walking, it sounds very straightforward, effortless, and easy.
Wasn't she one of the voices in 'Inside Out'? I guess it's fitting to have her narrate in your mind 😄.
This is so so so interesting, thank you so much! Already looking forward to the next video😁
I think what she is saying is instead of processing sensory information, her brain is optimized in a subconscious manner purely through the logic portion of her brain. I’ve read about left brain and right brain types of thinking and there are people who one hemisphere of their brain is essentially non-functional but you could never tell unless you did a brain scan. It doesn’t handicap the person in any way, it just reroutes the information they are receiving in a different way than those who need imagery to make sense of any data they need to process.
I just watched your video off the back of another video which basically made me aware that not everyone’s brain works the same. You explained the way you ‘think’ very well. For someone like me it’s hard to properly comprehend as my head is full of sounds, voices, thoughts etc so I can’t actually visualise a silent head. I mean where do all your ideas come from, what about memories, pictures of stuff, when you are planning a holiday or anything. When someone is saying something that provokes ‘thoughts’, or you disagree with what’s being said but you can’t voice your opinion, do you not have voices in your head talking, thinking about stuff? I liken my head to being in a crowded place and you hear everyone’s voices at the same time, some are louder and clearer than others but you get to hear extracts from everyone’s conversation, just some stand out more that in turn invokes a thought about what you heard. It’s so noisy in my head, all the time. Great video, very interesting
The way you explain the reading and typing is exactly how I would explain my mind. But I have "an inner voice". I think thought rendering is maybe a better way of describing it. It's not really a voice, or a narration. And I think that maybe when people say "I hear a voice in my head" the word "hear" is the wrong one to use, it's more that expectation you explain - but it feels like a voice sort of, since it communicates.
This video made me even more confused since I feel like I can relate a lot to what you say, but I know for sure I have an inner monologue. Some of these things sound like a difference in definition and understanding maybe? Because thought rendering sound like a better way to describe it. It's just thoughts that float up there without any real sound
I agree. Some of it does seem like semantics. I don’t “hear” a voice in the traditional sense. It isn’t like someone else is talking to me. It’s just me thinking. And when I visualize it isn’t like I “see” a scene on the back of my eyelids....I just think about a scene and picture it in my imagination.
Yes, I'm getting more confused the more we talk about it 😁.
For me, I just get the conscious thoughts that I force into my head. I can't replicate other voices and have a dialogue in there, I don't get negative messages, I don't get a narration of what I'm doing, etc. I feel like it is different from what other people can experience. I'm not sure if it should have a different name or not. I definitely don't feel like I have an inner monologue because that sounds to me like you talk to yourself in your head, and I don't do that. I don't have an internal dialogue either because I can't hear other people's voices in my head. Perhaps it's an inner voice, but that doesn't feel right because there's really no voice. I don't know. I like 'thought rendering' or 'thought voice'. It feels like it describes it better. But yeah it's probably just semantics.
I did just pick up a book on the subject to hopefully find some better answers 😄.
@@quietmindinside4808 It is dialogue whether you hear a voice or not. I can argue with myself in my head. I make a point and then a counterpoint and then another point and it can go on forever. That does not mean there are different voices or characters. It is just my mind reasoning.
@@meganmardones2473 I can't argue in my head either. I can force a thought, but I can't work with it that way. It's just like a thought floating by, and then it's gone. The best I can do is kind of pre-think something to say, but I can't adjust it. And I never get praise or other kinds of thoughts from my head. If I need to find something, I don't think it my head "Where did I put that?" Sometimes I do say that out loud, but I would never internalize it.
@@quietmindinside4808 But you muuuust have a way of working things out in your head. If you are dealing with a problem and how to solve it and you can't talk out loud, I mean, your brain has to be dealing with different factors. How else would you make good choices? How would you deal with moral dilemmas? How would you see all sides of an issue? I can always see a bazillion sides of any issue. It can't just be in your subconscious and automatically digested. You have to have an active role in sorting through your thoughts. I feel like crying. I just don't get it.
We are the sameee!!! I have also noted how my thought come in emotions!!! Almost like feeling the thoughts :)
Thank you so much for sharing! I am just discovering that not everyone has an inner voice and I am so interested in it! Come to find out, many people in my life do not have an inner monologue and I felt kind of crazy saying I hear my thoughts because my husband, sister, and brother in law have no idea what I am talking about lol They thought I meant that I am hearing other voices (like you would think an unstable person would). I am looking forward to your next video!
I'll be honest, I always thought hearing voices in your head was a sign that something was wrong! I had no idea it was normal. I can't imagine how you guys focus with all that going on in your head!
People generally learn to read out loud and then internalize that to internal speech. Assuming you learned how to read in the average way we all learned, I wonder why your external voice didn't become internal? Also, if someone spilled a bunch of marbles on the floor and asked you how many were there, how would you count them? Can you only count out loud? You can't say (inside your mind)...one, two, three...are you _capable_ of hearing your voice inside your head or is it an impossibility? Is it possible that you *do* have a voice inside your head, but you have tuned it out or haven't isolated it? If you try, can you hear (or imagine) hearing your own voice inside your head? Maybe it's a natural thing for the vast majority of people, but others can develop it? Like, could you, or would you even want to, practice hearing your own voice internally? These are just some of the many questions running through my mind.
Editing to add: About the reading, studies show that when people read silently, they are silently moving their larynx while reading. It is called "subvocalization," and it is considered universal. I wonder whether you subvocalize while reading...
You have some very interesting stuff in here! I'm honestly not sure about the learning to read stuff. I don't remember how I learned; although, I do remember teaching my brother to read. The movement of the larynx is very interesting. As far as I know I'm not moving anything, so perhaps there is a connection.
The counting thing is very good. My first instinct would be to count them out loud. However, I could count them in my head using a "milk voice". I think of it more of a thought rendering than a voice though. It doesn't sound like me; it doesn't have a pitch or timbre. It's just kind of there. It seems to have a "character limit", so to speak, so it's not super reliable to use. It's very easy for me to forget what I'm doing with that thought voice. I'm wondering now if perhaps I could strengthen it, though.
Susan Darby my “internal voice” isn’t audible or visual... it’s invisible if that makes sense
@@novioey I'm not sure if I can learn to visualize as it seems I have nothing to start with. I do wonder if I could train the voice because I do "hear" something when I read, even though it doesn't sound like a voice (no pitch or timbre).
Hi Susan, I wanted to reply to your first point where you say people learn to read out loud and then internalize this into inner speecht. I'm a psychology student and right now I'm working on a module called developmental psychology. The development of the inner voice starts around the beginning of preschool years. Toddlers around 2,5 years old start using 2-4 word sentences and primarily use egocentric speech. Which means that what they're talking about is not meant to be heard by others. So a little bit later in the development, around 4 years old, they start to learn how to internalize all the egocentric speech. They still use egocentric speech but they also learn how to use social speech, so talking that is supposed to be heard by others. So they learn how to internalize speech even before they learn to read. I hope this clears some things up. I'm still trying to get a hold on one of my neuropsychology teachers who might be able to tell me where in the development something might have 'gone wrong' which resulted in the absence of an inner monologue.
@@julieannelovesbooks Thanks, Julie. I'd love to hear what they have to say. I've been trying to read up on it as well and came across this conversion of speech out loud to oneself to switching it internally. I don't remember ever talking to myself in my head, even as a child. I vocalize things like "You can do this" or "You look ridiculous today". I also don't have conversations with myself in my head. I don't work things out that way. The only thing I can "hear" is that thought voice that doesn't sound like a voice. I only use it while reading or writing or when I'm practicing a speech or creating a "daydream". I can't really do anything else with it. I can't hold a lot in it either. So, like, I wouldn't be able to hold a whole speech I wanted to give in there, but I could do a few sentences. I feel like I may be getting things stuck in my working memory, and it just can't move on. And I definitely can't hear anything I don't actively craft. I don't have any internal interlocutors for sure. I'm not sure how typical this is.
I just discovered Aphantasia like 10 minutes ago (I don’t have it), and I am completely blown away. I can’t imagine what that discovery did to you, finding out that you’re quite different. I can’t wait for future videos, to learn what/ how things unfold in your mind. This is just beyond fascinating omg
Thanks so much! It was definitely shocking and very emotional for me, but it has been nice to make these videos and talk about it with so many people.
Something like 70ish percent of people have limited to no inner monologue, according to certain studies....
@Quiet Mind Inside
It's almost like you're a higher level human. I am blown away that you aren't bombarded with possibilities each time you interact with another person!
I seriously doubt they are higher level humans. It sounds like they have an inability to create things etc. etc. Have you heard of the word NPC? There’s a lot to be concerned about here.
@@moonmaidenn nope I’m super creative, it’s how I make a living.
I see it in my head first, to completion. Can’t plan it out though
@@moonmaidenn i posted this elsewhere re NIM;
Today after much studying this topic I made this conclusion;
No way is better nature wants balance. There seems to be a correlation between needing to hear the sound of your own voice 24/7 and believing you are the main player. Seems that way of thinking encouraging egoism. I think it’s more evidence of something called “Audism”. You probably haven’t seen that word and need to look up that word.
❤ Qualia -Life Nootropics 😁 practice seeing like visual flash card therapy. Sharpen your weaknesses like remembering details of clothing or things that stand out.
Word association really helps with picturing questions into answers.
One of the interesting about reading is that, as a person who as inner monologue, I used to read along inside my head while reading with my inner voice. That was relatively slow due to the limitations of the speed a person can speak. So I started trying to read ahead of my inner voice. What I basically did was reading as fast as possible. I still get inner voice, but due to the fast speed I'm reading at, the inner voice cannot form complete sentences, there will simply be scattered words. At first it really gives me a feeling of not understanding the whole text. But after some training I found out that I can still understand the text the same as I was reading slowly with my inner voices forming the whole sentences.
I feel like people with inner monologue can actually think like a person without inner monologue, but it would create a strong sense of insecurity (a sense of missing out something) within them so they wouldn't naturally do it. It's like watching a multimedia file but intentionally ignoring the audios and only focusing on the videos.
That’s really interesting. I always avoided reading because I felt I was too slow at it because my minds voice wouldn’t read quickly. I kind of am envious of not having an inner voice although I wish I had a rich visual inner mind. It would be cool to see stories like a movie.
Considering this is so new to you, I think you’re doing an amazing job figuring out how to explain this. ☺️ Thank you!
Thanks so much! I'm really trying my best to make it clear!
I understand, and experience, what you mean by "knowing", along with more typical ways of thinking. Often when I'm reading I have the same kind of soundless thought rendering "voice", or internally audible voice voice depending on a lot of factors, commonly influenced by the type or quality of the writing.
You are doing a great job. Previous video you said you weren't sure why so many people want to watch your videos. For one it is because it's a really interesting topic but I would say it's mostly because you have a radiant personality. We enjoy your spontaneity and you do it with a genuine smile. That makes you a lovable person.
Thank you! It means a lot.
well now i'm realizing why i'm a terrible active listener. It's because when someone else is speaking my inner monologue is having thoughts the ENTIRE time. and it wants to vocalize some of them but can't because they're speaking and continuing to feed new information. so it's just so loud
I think my ex was like you, always interrumpting me haha and very bad a listening
That's me too. I hate it but I almost always jump the gun. My mind has so many thoughts so quickly that it's overwhelming, and I hate it for the other person.
You must be an amazing listener. My thoughts compete with my ability to listen. I often need to focus heavily to truly hear what someone is trying to say. The best inner moment was once when my mind was truly silent. People meditate their whole lives just to quiet their mind chatter. Btw I love your concept of “thought rendering.”
It's been a long time since it was aploaded, but YES. It's really really close to my experience. I think of my thought process as a deprivation pool frome stranger things or that water cave in korra. Dark, no sounds, no temperature, no smells just comfy laying in the water. And the thoughts are like ripples. They come when I need them and I feel them, not anything else.
Your first video was helpful. I was shocked to learn I couldn’t “see” shapes like other people and no one else seemed to care. I have an inner monologue and I can imagine shapes and things but it’s all a “knowing” not an audible sound or a visible “picture” in my head. I now think my brain is actually more efficient then those that see or hear in their head. I instantly can preconceived what something would look like if described to me even very abstract thoughts. I can almost always just go by intuition alone and easily make decisions due to my knowing. I think that there is visual thought processors, audible processors and my type. I use 2-I think in sentences when discussing things with my inner being, my inner being answers back. I have an inner knowing of what an image would look like and I can feel what my inner being feels about what I sense I feel. Trinity-my conscious being-my inner being-my physical being
What an IMPRESSIVE explanation!! Very well said!! You must be a FABULOUS listener!! What a gift.
Agreed!!
Thank you for this. I also lack a minds eye or inner monologue. I've never heard anyone describe this experience-- and I only know that I was different mainly because of going to therapy and getting the feeling that most people have discrete thoughts going on, or.. well I don't know? Not really knowing how to answer some of the questions because honestly, they never made sense to me... thoughts are just not discrete, maybe more like predictive sublimated impressions? I dunno. I read super fast (with great comprehension even), have been considered by the academy to be a very good writer, and think very quickly on my feet.... it's always been a superpower of sorts (it's almost instinctual?). I wish I understood a bit more how it all worked. I am amazed that you have a partner willing to talk with you about these very hard things to articulate because I do believe some of how we can understand our variation is in relationship to the "other."
Oh my god, this sounds AMAZING!! Like you have so much less effort and worry involved in every day conversations. I spend the entire time someone is talking to me worrying about how to answer and how to respond! I am so jealous! 😳😂
i wish i could get the voice out of my head. i’m so bad at talking and listening because i have a million different thoughts going through my head all the time. to be able to just silently listen to someone talking and then have all my thoughts flow out without having to actively think about what i want to say would be so nice
Thank you for your efforts in trying to explain. I find the whole concept very interesting. I have questions to ask, but need to think how to frame them to make the most sense.
Roughest way I can try to explain images in my head, is that it's almost like looking at a light then seeing it almost like a "burn in" type thing.
All though colors can be presented, but mostly are representations of those colors... it's not a literal picture but something I RECOGNIZE as that picture....
But sometimes it can become too much and it can cause me to experience panic attacks
I am envious of the clarity you must have.
your videos, your story
has completely changed the way I think about myself, and the way the brain works...
Again you are amazing, and please make more videos!
You have given me a lot to think about with just 2 videos so far (plus reading the comments from others with Aphantasia is super helpful too), I do seem to have a normal Inner monologue, but being able to read faster without one and also being a better listener might be an improvement, I don't have any trouble going for hours without running my inner pie hole if I have nothing to say, read or think, I seem to be doing the normal subvocalization. so If someone was to watch my throat muscles in an MRI machine I'm guessing they would move a tiny bit even when I'm just thinking or reading to myself. I wonder what an MRI of your throat muscles would be doing when you are speed reading.
Really great way to explain aphantasia and no inner monologue
Minus saying stuff just because it's on my mind and not lying. We are conscious. And milk voice makes no sense to me. I don't hear anything or feel like I hear anything..
It’s almost like your brain leap frogs the step between processing the thought and speaking it out. Where as other brains would cycle through a number of visual and inaudible verbal process after conceiving the thought and before we speak the thought your brain doesn’t have to do the middle part. I’d imagine it makes you way more cognitively efficient. I wonder if it’s some kind of evolutionary adaptation? Hearing a monologue and seeing imagines while trying to think sounds great but is quite energetically expensive I’d imagine for the brain. Anyways very fascinating!
I’ve always had aphantasia but I did have an inner monologue when I was younger. Now I’m in the know and have been for several years
This was very fascinating, thank you! I was aware of this difference, but you’ve done the best by far at explaining it :)
I definitely have an internal monologue.. and ADHD.. and hyperphantasia. Sometimes, there are multiple active “channels” for each! So, i realized I actually do identify with how you process info, because I do it that way _sometimes._
For example: if I’m reading, and especially if I’m writing, I often do “sound out” each word in my head. If I read something written by a famous person or someone I know, I often hear it in their voice - timbre, accent, inflection. But sometimes when I’m reading, my brain does the exact same “overprinting printer” thing yours does, along with just taking in the info with zero “voicing” of it. I never really parsed it out like this.
As I’m writing this comment, I’m sounding out every word - but I’m also having thoughts trails on the side (“did I use that word write? Is this comment too long? Lol ‘inflection’ is a weird word when you think about it!”).
However, when I was reading something more mundane for work a minute ago, I was listening to a song in my head - and because I’d just heard your description, I realized that was how I was in taking the info I was reading!
It’s almost like there’s only so much room. Another example: when I mentioned having thought trails alongside writing this comment, I was _not_ fully voicing those thought trails (“is this comment too long” etc) - they were voiceless, concept-based thoughts that I just “knew,” because all of my monologuing/voicing power was being used up by the intensive task of composing a comment about a topic I’m conceptually holding in my (very poor lol) working memory.
Great video! One thing I really would be interested in hearing your perspective on would be what is your experience when alone without other human/information being presented around you? For example what do you feel when you are alone without a conversation, book to read, or something to watch that is feeding information into your subconscious?
This amazing lady is more able to express and explaine herself than many people who actually have not Aphantasia...it's like she's a purist and thinks in terms of god's language...like in all the different languages we have a different word for saying thank you...but what stands behind it is the concept that goes beyond having and image or a sound of it...it's abstract but still it's in there and even if we did forget any word for that to say...we still would be able to feel it...this lady's brain is really special...
Thank you so much. That's really lovely!
You must be the nicest friend to have. People who can give undivided attention in a conversation are very very rare. You have a special gift.
That would be great if people thought so! I try to do my best, but now I'm a bit worried that even though I'm good at listening, I may not be as empathetic as I should be.
@@quietmindinside4808 we all can improve at something :-) learning about other ways to view this world is a huge opportunity for all of us to become a better version of ourselves and inspire others growth at the same time.
@@quietmindinside4808 An excess of empathy can mislead one. Maybe you already have just the right amount.
You said in the first video that you feel bad about not being able to have images in your head or inner monologue, and that everyone who can seems like superhuman. Just wanted to tell you that I feel the same about YOU. I feel like you're a superhuman and I need to make a lot of effort to put out my mind. How your brain works is so great! Haha.
Also, you explained this so good. When I heard that there is people who can't "imagine" or have inner monologue, I thought I will never be able to understand how those people can survive. Now I'm like damn, those people really know how to survive, they literally just know.
Cheers!
Such a fascinating topic. My experience is pretty much the same, but not ultimately. I would say I have close to none existent imagery, inner dialogue, sound, smell, and taste recollection. I can imagine shapes, and sometimes there are flashes of images - especially memories, but it is so fast and intense, so there are no details to focus on. I would probably say on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is complete aphantasia; then I am a two or a 3. I am also utterly useless with names, and I can pretty much agree that my mental process is more centered on knowing that the information I receive as inputs are somewhere inside processed as pictures, and sounds, and monologue, and so forth, but my conscious output only uses what is needed. I am, for some reason, very good at abstract thoughts, parallel thinking; for instance, I can read a text and listen to a podcast simultaneously and “understand” the content. I like to think this is an “upside.” But I cannot imagine a song in my head or remember the details of any still image or video. So my mind's eye, ears, tongue, and nose might not be entirely out of functions but hidden in the background abstracted away, still processing information for me. Still, only output the information I need to take any action and so in a minimalistic matter. I did not enjoy school at all when it came to how teachers were teaching things. I pretty much preferred to study on my own, and I had no problems, with nowhere close to maximum effort, getting an engineering degree. I could have done it entirely on my own, honestly, but I think that is probably more of a side effect and skill developed because the schools were not tailored for people like us.
What is anxiety and things like adhd like for people with no inner monologue? It must be noticeable with biological signs or something. Wild to think about. I couldn't imagine not having an inner monologue. I thought that was a universal human experience.
I have this!!! I completely understood when you were saying just knowing and then when you talked about reading everything fell into place
This is fascinating. You must have a dynamite processing speed on intelligence tests. For me, mine is very, very slow because I take so much times to work things out, process them, filter them. That's just crazy. And SO fascinating because my bachelor's is in psychology and social behavior so this is enthralling to me. Thank you so much for sharing so eloquently!
I've actually been thinking that I should put up some videos of me doing puzzles or something so that we can all kind of do them together and compare speeds 😂. I'm sure there are some things that take me way longer to do!
This is a step by step tutorial on how to put words too how my brain processes inputs/outputs. Helped me tremendously as I for the first time could verbalize it to my wife who has vivid visual and audio sensations.
Looking forward to your next video!
Thanks, this was super interesting. I think it's cool that you have the quietness in your mind to be able to describe your unvoiced thinking process. It's hard for me to imagine how you would be able to speak and think without an inner voice. At the same time, when our inner voice speaks there isn't a conscious process turning our thoughts into that voice, it just happens. There's no voice telling the inner voice how to speak. I imagine the process of you turning thoughts into speech is the same.
Yes, I feel like I'm just not doing the translation from thoughts to inner voice or visuals that you guys do, but the rest of the process is the same.
I am enthralled to learn about this! It never occurred to me that a person did not think the way I think. I wonder, then, if any negative speak you took in as a child (or positive) has had an impact on your adulthood. Because I was a sensitive and "mushy, lovey" child, anything negative wounded me deeply and left lasting scars on me. I tell myself negative things all the time and have to "correct" that inner voice. A life-long struggle.
I have a real hard time with negative comments. I've always been like that. Even if I can't remember the actual comment, I will hang on to that feeling you get for a long time. I'm sure I've still been affected by them, but I just can't relive them as vividly.
It's like you live your life in front of a curtain. You experience everything that 'we' do but it all goes behind the curtain. When you need something- a thought, a word- you just reach behind you between the curtain and bring out what you need. You don't have to turn around.
Very true. It does feel a bit like that.
I think a good example of how inner monologue feels/sounds is the episode of bojack horseman “stupid piece of shit.” He’s talking to himself in a way that is familiar. They’re not all negative thoughts obviously, but the way the show presented it is very accurate. I’d recommend you check out the beginning of that episode to understand an inner monologue better!
As a kid I intuited this and learned to quiet my voice, at least temporarily. I knew I could think silently but found that using words was far more natural. I can totally understand how you can just know something without articulating it.
I have Aphantasia as well. Just realized just a few months before my 50th birthday because I saw a Tiktok video about it. Started asking people I know if they can see pictures in their head and they all said yes. My mind was blown! I can totally relate to what you are saying. I work on facts, and how things make me feel. I am very rational and matter of fact. My mind filters through the facts and the emotions from the other person or myself attached to the subject of the conversation. I don't remember places by a picture, but by the elements I remember it having.
I am very curious about those without the inner monologue. Do you love deeply? Have you been deeply in love or do you desire to be? What do you do when you have to create something as in draw a picture or right a story as in a school? Do you think you could invent sometime? What did you experience while being on hallucinogens such as mushrooms. Thank you kindly
i love your videos so much!
Thanks!
This is fascinating
I recently (like, today) ran across this information.... and aphantasia would explain a LOT of the differences in how I think compared to most popele I've known.... I've been telling people for years that the process most people go through thinking, that is, in language, how I experience thought seems to be, well, I've said that instead of thinking in words, I think conceptually, which is almost as difficult to explain, but I think is the concept you're going after with the phrase "thought rendering" . How I've explained this to people kind of matches what you're saying...... I don't think (or remember) things in tiny tidbits.... the information or memory or thought or whatever comes in whole, like a concept (hence my term conceptual thinking) and not like distinct words, sentences, and paragraphs.... I've found it easiest to compare it to that scene in the Matrix where Neo learns kung fu, like it's just there in its entirety.... ..... I've found, over the years, too, that I'm what they term a claircognizant empath, and that seems to tie into this thing of the way my brain works and how I relate to the "external'" world. I get how you describe reading, like I read almost as fast as a speed reader, but I AM NOT speed reading.... my brain just skips over all the and, thes, buts, etc, just automatically rendering them and I somehow get the gist of the sentences without actually "reading" it the same way most people seem to have to do..... oh and the speaking thing? I call it "stream of consciousness speaking"; I'm pretty sure it's pretty much the same thing by the way you're describing it. And when I'm typing, my fingers often cannot keep up with how fast my brain wants them to go LOL You do a pretty decent job of explaining your personal experience. Thanks for the videos... very interesting.
Very well written comment, thank you for some new vocabulary I am going to use for our conditions and I'm going to look into claircognizant empath
@@coltonhester3097 I'm glad you appreciate the terminology I've offered. My linguistic skills do seem to be on the higher end of the spectrum, at least for English speakers and I make conscious efforts to express my thought processes as precisely and accurately as I am capable. I have spent much time attempting to understand the differences in my thought processes that I have become aware of...... as it has caused a bit if a disconnect between me and those around me at times, and those differences have caused me no little bit of distress on occasion. If my comprehension of this thing called aphantasia has added to your personal comprehension, that pleases me immeasurably. I love learning new things about anything, really, to do with how we humans experience reality and relate to it and to each other. Thank you.
@@thebanddeaddolls I appreciate your clear conceptual ideal of how are empathy is different from normal people, I have been struggling with the concept that I could be a psychopathic or a sociopath and this makes me feel more capable to improve and open my understanding to the knowledge about my condition. I am not very articulate with my written words but when it comes to use of verbal language I do excel above the average person around me. I only recently have been feeding into philosophical thought process. Thank you again for sharing your ideas with us.
Great descriptions.
I discovered I have aphantasia maybe 8 or 9 years ago when I stumbled across an article written by someone else who'd just discovered they had it.
I'm a 0 on the visual imagery scale, just blank nothingness when I think of something or try to visualize.
I do visualise when I dream, although I rarely remember having dreamt. Very occasionally, in that in between sleep and awake phase, I do see fleeting images in my mind eye, however they are random images rather than being related to any thoughts in processing at the time.
The way you described reading & writing was really interesting too, I'd never tied that together with the lack of mental imagery. Your description also made me realize why I had so much trouble writing at school. I'd often write words in a jumbled order as I couldn't write quickly enough to keep up with the very quiet voice dictating to me in my head.
Sometimes when I'm reading non-fiction, or more often paperwork, i turn the voice off so I can read faster. With fiction, it's almost like someone is reading the book to me but without actually hearing the voice, if that makes sense?
I don't see, hear, smell, feel, anything mentioned in the book, just the words on the page.
Thanks for the videos, I'm looking forward to watching more :)
Honestly this is so fascinating my brain never shuts up and im constantly hearing my thoughts all day so seeing how you live and see things so differently is cool to learn about!
For me the coolest thing to hear you talk about was reading! I read at a medium-slow pace because, for example, if I'm reading a novel I'll "think" every word in the characters' voices (or how I imagine their voices would sound) at normal-speech-pace. If I try to read at the pace you describe for yourself, it's a lot harder for me to take in the information, similar to how it's harder to process the words of someone who's speaking very fast out loud.
(This now has me second-guessing myself lol. Does everyone else also find it harder to process very quick speech? I just assumed so!)
(Also I wanted to add that your husband's description of speaking vs. listening is very accurate for me too!)
That sounds so cool that you can read in different voices! I'm pretty jealous of that. I always thought I really got a lot out of reading, but now I'm hearing about all these other incredible things you guys experience! Arrrrrr 😂.
Quiet Mind Inside I think it’s amazing how you’re able to read so fast! There’s some jealousy going both ways lol!
Omg girl, I feel like you're the super human one. How your brain just does that stuff on it's own so fast.. wow
monsune yes I was thinking the same thing! Seems like her brain works a lot faster, especially with the reading, like there’s nothing else in there to get in the way, so it’s way more efficient. Very interesting!
fascinating topic and excellent presentation. thank you!
I’m fascinated. I’m listening! I had no idea there were differences like this. I’m now thinking about how I think, imagine, read, etc.
Yes! I feel like I'm overanalyzing now. How did I do that? Is that how everyone else does it? I ask my husband constantly all day, "What are you seeing now?"
This is so fascinating. Thank you for sharing. It is making me think so much about the different ways we all learn and function! Amazing!!!
Thats cool. Your subconscious does what our inner thoughts do without the interaction. I would imagine you're a very decisive person too. So interesting. Scientists should study you
Your explanations are excellent! This will be very helpful in my quest to stop using words with my thinking. I already suspected much of what you said. Clearly, your form of thought is more efficient in numerous ways. I also believe there are forms of thinking even higher. Thank you!
Super interesting. I was diagnosed when I was a kid with ADHD but was never treated for it or understood all the aspects of my life that it affected (btw was all aspects) until now at age 40 like you said ..reddit ruined my life...lol... Unlike you I’ve NEVER had a quiet moment inside my head I lived with an inner monologue that just won’t shut up it’s like having the tv. On in the bedroom while trying to watch a movie In the living room ..constant chatter. I just thought everyone was like me. Was blown away when I started meds at how peaceful it could be,this is how the non ADHD brain feels!
That's such a great description! Thanks so much for that. I've actually become super interested in ADHD since I found out that most everyone can see images in their heads. I just think it would be hard for everyone to concentrate with all that going on. But your explanation is very clear. So is your inner monologue completely silent now, or you just have the ability to turn it off?
Quiet Mind Inside when I first started the meds I had peace and quiet no channel surfing...lol.. lately I’ve been having some overlapping thoughts but I noticed it’s seems to happen later in the evening when the drug is leaving my system and my ADHD brain is coming back. I wish I had the ability to control the thoughts and turn them on or off ..I have to say that the switch would always be off though;);) ...but I have zero control. With medication it’s off without 100% back on unfortunately.
You're doing a great job trying to explain the impossible! This is all so fascinating to me. I have a very active inner monologue (im speaking this in my head as i type) and i have a close to photographic memory and ability to visualize in my head. Id love to see an MRI of people's brain activity on the different experiences of thought and how similar or different they are! When you mentioned listening, I learned I was at an advantage of essentially being able to hear everything twice (almost like a read along in my head with whatever I'm hearing) and a disadvantage bc it sometimes has to work its way through other stuff! Like having a conversation while music is playing and a tv is on.
Just learned of this yesterday. Been binge learning about it.
Your brain telling your legs where to go is a great analogy to make me understand what and how you think. Thanks for that.
No problem! I try to bounce stuff off my husband to make sure it makes sense, so he's been really helpful coming up with the right analogies.
In my personal experience, the best way I've found to describe thoughts as "knowing" is by using dreams as an example. Often times in dreams you'll simply know who a person is. Even if you wake up and recall that they looked different, or you never got a good look at their face. It's just an assumption or a feeling you made in the moment and that's all that matters to you when interpreting what you're experiencing. You simply "know" who it is.
I definitely don't have aphantasia but I'm very close to it on whatever the "imagination spectrum" is. It's incredibly hard for me to visualize things. I can daydream but rarely is it ever actually visual, it mostly exists in the abstract "knowing" space. The closest I get to actually physically seeing things is when I get closer to falling asleep after laying in bed for a while. Same goes for the daydreams. It would appear that the more conscious I am, the less visually active my mind's eye is. Reading feels identical as well. The less "into" the book I am, the less I see, starting with absolutely nothing. But if I get more engrossed in the book and become more meditative on the work and lose myself in it, then I can begin to see more of the world as it's written. My inner monologue seems to work along the same lines. When I'm entirely conscious and present, I can manifest an inner speech on command if I so choose, but rarely is it thoughts being expressed to me verbally as if I'm the observer. I'm usually the one actively speaking aloud in my head. But when I daydream or get closer to falling asleep that opens up into much more activity.
As a general rule of thumb though, if I'm entirely conscious and present, I'm only ever really able to experience my own thoughts in my head in the form of my own voice. Visuals and all that simply exist as a feeling of their essence more often than not.
I subscribed to your channel after your first video because the way you explain how you think and how you talk about this whole topic is amazing. I felt like after the first video I totally understand how a person's brain without an internal monologue and aphantasia works, even though I know everyone is different. You do a really great job at explaining everything.
Thanks so much! I'm really glad that it's helpful. It's honestly really hard to come up with explanations, so I'm really trying my best to be as clear as I can.
Your experience is also my experience. However, you have been much more successful explaining it to others than I have, although I have resorted to the analogy of the computer without a screen. Steven Pinker's concept of mentalese also provides some satisfying explanations. I was slightly envious that you are actually able to 'hear?' some musical performances: I cannot, no matter how many times I listen to them. That being said, counting marbles presents no difficulties, and I can perform complex mathematical computations in my head. And yes, your analogy with the malfunctioning printer makes perfect sense.
I'm so glad you found my explanations accurate. I find it so hard to figure out the best way to say things because I never really thought about it before. My brain just works doing its brain stuff 😄. I've been looking into the mentalese as well, and it seems interesting. I also picked up a book on inner voices to try and learn more. Hopefully, I can get to it this week.
I'm so sorry about the music. If it helps, I don't actually get to pick the song that I hear. Something just gets stuck in there. Often it's the theme songs for my kids' favorite shows. Not fun.
Think also about audio recordings of your family. My husband recently died and I have no recollection of the sound of his voice after hearing it daily for more than 50 years. Heart breaking.
Your explaining this extremely well
Thanks so much! Honestly, finding the right words is really hard, so it's good to hear.
One issue I run into is that I’m super confident about what I’m saying, like with the favorite vacation example. After the person I’m talking to finishes, an answer just blurts out of my mouth and I always feel like I didn’t actually mean it or I’m forgetting that ONE vacation ya know.
Just came across your video! What I find interesting about your reading and the way you handle words, I could never. My inner voice reads it for me/with me, and if they’re not done yet, I cannot go to the next sentence..! Thanks for uploading your videos, super interesting!
Thanks for taking the time to make these videos! I really enjoy your enthusiasm and way of explaining the differences. I don't know if you've gotten these questions before but here they are...
1- When you were a little girl what was your favorite toy or activity?
2- Did you ever imagine your wedding dress (apparently a typical girly thing to do) and/or did have trouble planning your wedding or was it much easier than you thought it would be?
3- Do you have trouble getting to sleep or is it relatively easy to stop any thought processes?
4- I know you talked about music but what goes through your mind when you look at a painting or any kind of visual art and then try to talk about it to someone who hasn't seen that piece or exhibit?
Obviously you don't have to answer any of my questions. I'm sorry if they seem strange.
1. So really young, I was into Barbies. As I got older, I liked to write stories.
2. No, I never imagined a wedding or wedding dress.
3. I generally fall asleep quite easily. I do have times where my mind feels full, and it's harder, but that's rare.
4. When I see a painting, I just see what's literally there. The colors, the objects. I can enjoy classical works because they are pictures of things, but modern art has always looked like a bunch of messy nothing to me. It doesn't evoke strong feelings. I don't know if that is because of my aphantasia or I'm just not an arty person, though.
@@quietmindinside4808 that's so interesting! Thanks for answering my odd questions. I was partly curious to see if it's the way your brain works compared to mine or if it could also be down to other differences and similarities. As far as dreams go, you'd said you get the sense or feeling something is happening rather than the visual. Honestly, I can't say which is better. Having a vivid imagination means I can recall horror movies at any point from my life and freak myself out so I can't get to sleep or it'll interrupt my sleep. On the other hand, I can also manipulate my dreams, especially recurring ones. Neither of which is very restful so I envy your quiet mind.
@@choochmagooch5200 I actually hate horror movies! I can handle gore, but ones with ghosts or supernatural stuff, no way! I can feel those feelings of fear even though I can't replay the movie in my head, and I hate it.
Thank you for making this video. I lived 45 years without realizing that people had inner voices and could picture things in their minds. Your descriptions are great and, for the most part, match my thought processes. Reading was similar, but the word "mash up" is not a thing for me. Your comparison of walking to speaking was great, and i will use it. I have trouble with understanding the logistics of inner voice and speach. Seems complicated.. haha. I am perfectly happy without, but dont know what im missing. Thanks again.
Maybe what you mostly do is what someone termed "Unsymbolized Thinking," which basically includes awareness of a thought but without words or pictures.
I just want you to know that I understood every single thing you said, even the wonky printer analogy, even though I don't read like that. But at the same time, actually seeing the letters as a word and consciously processing its meaning is burdensome to me.
😊Thank you for making the effort to share what's going on in your mind.
This is literally mind boggling to me!
The way you "force" the inner voice, I think is actually pretty close to how most people "hear" the inner monologue. It isn't ACTUALLY sound that we hear. But we do think the words, and we just describe it as "hearing" them. If you can THINK a word, then you are doing what we are doing. You just don't have the same habit as most people, of turning your thoughts into inner words. You experience them more as feelings. We have the feelings too, but we notice the words more because we are more language driven than feeling driven within the process of thinking.
You are amazing thank you for articulating it I just cannot seem to
Quiet minder here...when I listen to people speaking my mind is quiet but I notice the speakers posture,facial expressions, tone of voice, how they are looking at me ECT and that causes me to react in my own expressions posture ECT to what they are saying. I also look at the other people in the room to get a feel of what they are thinking/feeling. I think my quiet mind helps me feel the room out and be a really good listener...
My usuall inner monologue is like your thought rendering (no pitch). If I remember a dialogue or if I make one up with different people, I can imagine a different pitch for everyone, if I want to. For example: when I recreate a song in my head I remember all voices and sounds. I don't actually hear them with my ears, but it's in my head.
The same with mental images. I can recreate something or someone I saw, or something I read, or heard, as an image. I don't see it with my eyes, I just mentally recreate it. The more details I remember, the more accurately I can recreate them. I still remember my late father's voice, even 10 years after his death, and can recreate it in my mind. So I can imagine us talking to each other, sitting in the living room of my childhood home.
Of course there are people I don't remember their voice, and I can't recreate it ("hear it") in my mind.
I can also create in my mind new unknown logical or illogical/fantastic images. Less as an adult compared to when I was a kid. As a kid I could also create more prevalent images ("I could see them more clearly"). I guess that's why we say kids have more imagination.
All the above are manifestations of memories, thoughts and emotions. "Loud" voices and "life-like" images in my mind are words that decribe my prevalent thoughts and emotions at that time.
That's why we can't make our inner monologue to shut up: because it's one of the ways our brain handles our emotions.
Question for you: when you count objects inside your head, do you "say"/"think" the numbers?
That's all very interesting. You explain it really well, so it's making a lot more sense to me. The ability to hear other people's voices in your head sounds really amazing, too!
When I count things, usually I want to do it out loud. That's always my first instinct. If I can't for some reason, I can use that forced thought rendering. But, I can't do any complicated math with it. I'd have to write stuff down if the numbers got too big. I was talking to someone else like me, and he mentioned that his working memory like this is not very good either. If you say more than a 4 digit number to me, I have a hard time holding on to it unless I can say it out loud. I imagine I vocalize a lot of what you guys say to yourselves with your inner voices.
@@quietmindinside4808 what I understand is that you also have an inner voice, because basically what it is, is thoughts. Maybe it's different from mine because you don't manipulate it, and isn't easily and always available, which I guess has to do with Aphantasia.
In order to remember something I have repeat it many times inside my head, but as most people, it's easier if I say it out loud. And for complicated math (not from memory) I of course need pen and paper.
Do you focus easily?
When I study, if I'm tired or not in the mood, random thoughts just come up and while my eyes see the words one after another, I don't pay attention to what I read, so I have to read it again.
@@joleeaek I'm beginning to think there must be a difference between inner voice and inner monologue. Because I can sense thoughts I put in there, but random thoughts don't "speak" to me. I just picked up a book about inner voices so that I can learn more about them.
I definitely still lose focus when I'm reading something boring or tired, but I'm just blank. I stare into space and just really "space out". I guess it's like sleeping with my eyes open? I don't really have conscious thoughts that I'm aware of.
@@quietmindinside4808 when we usually say monologue we mean that we think in words.
For example I can feel worried about completing a project on time, without forming any words in my mind. I know what I feel because i feel it.
Or I could be actively thinking "I wish I had more time, I hate deadlines".
In both cases I feel the same, in the second case I also "speak to myself", think in words, hence the phrase "inner monologue".
Most of the times the second case happens automatically, is a manifestation of my emotions in word form, and can't suppress it. And I wish I could make it stop, because it stresses me even more: that's what means to overthink.
@@quietmindinside4808 If a train goes by and there are 25 railcars in it, can you give the correct count without writing anything or moving any physical tallies; can you do it all in your head silently? Suppose you had nothing else important to do at the time, but someone offered you $500 if you could give the correct count. They're going by at about two per second.
I know exactly what you mean. Excellent explanation!
Thanks for explaining how I think.
I have aphantasia but I do have an inner monologue. I really like the way you describe how you read. It's similar to the way I read as well. When I'm reading, I'm going much faster than I would if my inner monologue were to read out the words. I love your image of a fast dot matrix printer that's just zooming line after line because that's really sort of what it's like for me. In terms of the way you describe speaking without having an inner monologue, I agree that while there are times I will use my inner monologue to practice something I want to say, usually I don't. It's similar to the way I write/type. I'm not planning on what I'm going to write/type using my inner monologue and then typing out what I've decided to write... although there are definitely times that I will use my inner monologue to work out how I want to say something... and then there are times that I can feel my inner monologue trying to hash out language on something when I need to work on something.
One of the things that this video helped remind me is that there's definitely a difference between my inner monologue and my thought process. I've definitely noticed that there are times I'll notice something or reach a conclusion and it's not a result of any sort of inner monologue. Usually that's when I'll use my inner monologue to try to figure out how got where I did. Conversely, I can certainly use my inner monologue to talk myself in one direction or another.
So glad you are talking about this... I've had aphantasia since I was a little girl and always thought I was alone. 😭
Definitely not alone! I'm amazed you figured it out at a young age. I feel so ridiculous now looking back that I never noticed.
Okay real question: how the hell do you plan things? How do you debate ideas in your brain? Stuff like "should I take a cab or ask my husband to drive me to that place I want to go to?" What about long-term planning? "Thinking" about your life goals? Is everything handled by your unconscious mind?
This just blows my mind as it has some interesting implications on our idea of conscious thought and what it means to be human.
All the thoughts are still in my head, and I work through things, I just don't see or hear the process. Do you ever make decisions without an image or talking it out in your head? For example, if you're at a coffee shop, do you need to debate every choice or do you just make one? When I read a menu, I just pick what I want after looking at the choices. Any internal debate is done subconsciously I guess. Sometimes I'll change my mind after I've said something, just like anyone else. But I don't hear a voice in my head saying "oh no, don't pick that one", I just get a feeling.
As for long-term planning, I suck at it. I don't really do it at all. I might plan a vacation for the upcoming year, but that's about it. I've always been very "whatever will happen, will happen".
It blows my mind that everyone seems to be seeing things all the time! When I made this first video, I thought it was just when you were daydreaming or reliving a memory, but from what people have been telling me, that's not the case. It's like all day long! It seems incredibly distracting. I don't know how you guys do it.
it's funny, when you said your brain is empty when you are talking to someone I could suddenly relate this to the past. I often had a conversation (still have sometimes) that I kind of wanted to fill the silence in a conversation because I'am not constantly thinking about everything, but someone else is. Must be hard.