Yep. I hate this is how the system works. So much shit is going on, by the time I've noticed I'm being grabbed, the hands are already on me and it's a blind guess.
@wittyag as annoying as it sounds, it can be done and high level players can easily see the hands, in tekken 7 I had S+ throwbreaking and my reaction times in general aren't the best but I could see the hand reaching to grab me
@carloshernandez3177 I'll just have to take your word. I've tried labbing the different throws to practice breaking them, and I'm lucky to break 1 out of 10. In a real match, forget it. Even if I know which one is coming I still can't break them.
@@wittyag one way is for example you fight vs a feng, he only has the uf 1+2 break the others are the generics and can be broken with either punch button so really, fengs will mainly use 1+2 so vs him specifically you can always hit 1+2 if he throws
@@Topgamer357 I would welcome king nerfs, I don't need super powered moves.. king is and was a set up character and I like to play those mind games with my opponent
As a new tekken player the thing that kills me the most about learning his throw breaks is that you can scroll through 10 different throws that have the same 4 seconds of unbreakable startup animation and then find out they a handful of them have this oddly specific break. Alot of the chain grabs just have super ambiguous animations that makes dealing with them when you’ve already been caught quite challenging to get out of.
Bro honestly if I were you I would just go and learn how the chain throws are done. There are only a few optimal routes and some of it’s a guessing game but learning which ones your opponent is going for will really help you however a good king player will be totally ambiguous with his chain throw game so your main concern should just be not to even be in a position where this fucker can grab you. I’ve been learning and labbing king for a few weeks just to understand where these guys are coming from and I can already feel where they are at disadvantages coupled with the fact that King is actually a really slow moving character.
"Not even JDCR, Arslan, or Knee are gonna break all of those throws" Yea, ure right.. Just saw Arslan Xiaoyu playing against Atif's King, and Arslan can do nothing about the throws in so many times
Because it’s basically a 10 frame mixup because of the different breaks for different throws and as much as people would want you to believe they can react to the giant swing they can’t unless they are already anticipating their opponents timing. I can easily see how anyone like Arslan or Knee who have wicked calculated playstyles can struggle against a move this ridiculous when it’s in the hands of another insanely skilled player. We are literally talking jab speed despite the fact that it takes a few frames to initiate there are so many ways a good king can obscure his throw behind so many layers of close range safe poking.
I know TMM is more knowledgeable than me but I'm still gonna refute the "King loses to the real cheese" statement. King is the real cheese everywhere outside of truly high-level play. Ain't nobody gonna convince me it's harder to deal with Asuka's b3 into the easiest low parry of your life than it is to deal with homing 50/50 throws, armor that guarantees like 60 damage, actually very solid poking game, and 64 damage Heat Smash. Oh boohoo the opponent has chosen to evade highs for the next 3 seconds and now you have to use something other than your laser guided nuclear slot-machines. Nurse, take em to Winnie Hut Jr.'s, stat!
Throws should not track. Change my mind. If throws track and your Character has a true throw mixup, they are basically 10-12f homing high unblockables with a 50/50 chance of success/resetting neutral.
"Its a 50/50, everybody has those" - king players Everybody risks getting punished for them too. When you break a king throw, congratulations. You get to guess a second time when he just does it again
It's fine if they track, but if you break them you should get a relevant opportunity to punish with something around the same damage as a the throw you broke would do, so maybe a a ten frame punish for breaking a regular and a fifteen frame for breaking a command or certain command grabs? It's a bit insane the most reliable counter now is micro ducking unless you have superb reactions in live play.
In T8 to break chain throws you don't need to mash the button to fit into break window anymore, you can just hold the button. makes breaking RDC way easier.
Even in 7 mashing wasnt the best way to break it because the input window is so small that it can easily fit between 2 of your mashes unless you're so good at mashing that they span the entire time axis everywhere densely
@@christoffelsymbol1631 Mashing wasn't the best way, but it was usually better than not mashing. What I did was mash with 2 fingers(index and middle) on the same button. So that while one finger goes down the other goes up. And yeah, it did miss the window sometimes but I would have had a harder time trying to time that window properly.
@@Squidward-jv7goI play king because i like the characters design. If I want to spam cheap shit I would play another character. This character is in Tekken since Tekken 1. Learn the matchup and don't complain. I love every character in Tekken. It's my favourite series
For anyone still confused about how to beat ali kicks: A VERY important thing: You can't low parry or even hold down to block the ali kicks, if you have to input an actual crouching guard, so hold down-back. Hold crouch block when you see the first kick then react to the mid punch as it is 28 frames and very telegraphed. It's possible for the King player to do a single kick into the mid which will require you to very quickly be ready to react, which I find is the most tricky thing for me to block, but most King players won't do this. It's the classic Tekken cheese where the attacker just mashes the 4 button and the defender needs a phd to beat it. Also, make sure you are not neutral guarding, as the single ali kick into mid will connect, and eating all 3 will leave you open to a launcher afterwards like fcdf2 if you are not holding back. Another thing to mention that Mainman didn't is that i've noticed that most yellow/orange king players just mash it out which means they almost consistently do all 3 kicks into the mid so if you are struggling to react that could be something to fall back on.
that there is a difference between Neutral Guard and actually Guarding is one of the least intuitive things in Tekken that also doesn't get mentioned by the tutorial (afaik) and most online guides don't mention it either.
Something I didn't see mentioned is that if you mash any button while landing from Giant Swing your character will do a quick roll and you won't take the second part of the throw's damage, which makes a considerable difference. It's not possible if King throws you to a wall though, which is why Giant Swing becomes stronger when the King's back is to the wall.
Don't forget, King can mix you up with running GS and running SW. And if you're crounching, prepare for a mid launcher, crounch throws, and running 3 or running exploder
@@carloshernandez3177 That's more intermediate than high. King doesn't have a move allocated to ff3, so dash cancelling out of a crouch dash will give you F3.
I hate King, but its really just throws in general that I hate in Tekken 8. You can't step them anymore, that counterplay is gone. If you get hit by a counterhit throw, you can't break it on reaction, but it's trivial to land them because grabs land in 10-12f. So they are jab speed, but they deal 40-60 damage on counterhit + oki, and you can't step them in either direction.
@@Warsheep2k6 Counterhit throws have greatly reduced tech time, it goes down to like 10fr. When I say the throw comes in 10fr, I mean that its 10fr before it connects. My point is that its speed means it will beat a lot of attacks, then the counterhit throw will have reduced tech time.
@@Dopameme have you tried throwing out a 10f throw like the giant swing or shining wizard under pressure? If someone manages to do that he deserves that throw, change my mind. Not to mention that you can easily reduce the damage of giant swing I am not saying its not cheap - it is, but it is on you to avoid those situations, same with hellsweeps dragunovs 2d pressure or alisa chainsauce its just the first time in history that king is super buffed and is s tier instead of a or b tier due to the extreme changes on throws
@ep2k6 You only gave one possible circumstance where they could apply (grabbing out of pressure) when there are tons. And are the other throws much slower at 12-14f? No, you're still dealing crazy damage from a super fast CH because its too hard to tech. Even Knee himself said that a lot of strong players are getting hit by throws now because of CHs. That's because this actually does happen in practice very often. "I am not saying its cheap - it is but it is on you to avoid it" This is obviously always true, you could add a move that oneshots the player, it'd still be on them to avoid it. The question is, is it reasonable? I think giving throws CH property AND full l/r tracking is unreasonable. The ambiguous King throws are extremely fast, high damage CH, tracking guessing games.
Not gonna lie king is a cheap pos in T8 his comeback potential is greater than every1 cant begin to count how many times iv been robbed by his heat smash or his ff n 2, combine all that with his amazing poking and best throws in the game
I just reached red ranks as King doing nothing but shining wizard / hopkick mixups. And if someone could break shining wizard, I would mix it with running giant swing. The funny thing is, this was the most amount of people who declined to rematch that I've seen.
I’m new to tekken and my dad mains king to I have been watching videos to help me beat him whenever I can and this is really helpful but I’m watching this in a quiet classroom with headphones but when he said “I get you ass” I started laughing thankfully i didn’t get in trouble
probably worth mentioning, if no one did before: If you get hit by the pedigree throw (the heat engager crouch throw), don't press anything for like a second on the ground. If you try to do a wakeup attack, king can just use heat smash and with that you lost like 75% of your lifebar in 2 moves
Some other delinquency is that King will do U/F 3+4 into 1, and if it connects, he is guaranteed a U/F 2 flying elbow into you. The other U/F 3+4 mix is the RKO that almost every King goes for that is duckable.
He does get a free U/F 2 but that's not his highest dmg and leaves him in a really bad state after. Kings best option after the mid is dash d2+3, alley kick which is all guaranteed
No hate but this must be the 20th Anti King video I've seen. Somebody please tell me how to beat Hworang or any other character damn. (the video was still interesting tho, thanks)
He is a noob killer. Get in his face and mash all the time with a mix of highs and lows. If he is far, wait for him to attack and dodge punish. There are way more annoying/better characters to deal with than him.
I’ve always understood the leading arms dictate what to break, but with the costumes and proximity to the person covering the limbs, I find it hard to see it in that split second
When he does giant swing, he has a more pronounced roar. If you train yourself to listen for the roar rather than the hands, it can be a bit more consistent. Kind of like when you hear Steve's over here or Azucenas buzzin.
I wouldn’t “time your breaks” for the crouch dash throw strings. It is a guessing game but you can identify the routes and try to adapt. I usually mash depending on what the first crouch dash throw was. Unfortunately that means if even the guy doesn’t go for a rolling death cradle or a kings bridge they can do other routes for less damage still. So… but hey you CAN mash the throw breaks idk
you absolutely can mash to escape rdc, but if you want to make sure it never misses you can't leave more than a 3f gap between each press. Alternatively just hold down the button lol
Shout out to all the future Tekken newcomers like me who was doing great until they hit Garyu and started going up against kings and was gonna swear off the game until you decided to stop tilt cueing and go look up a guide. I love this the way you have such hatred for King. "Launch Him". "You have to launch him" "Don't let him get away with that". Heard sensei. Heard.
It's funny to see how a different character gets hated every week. It started with Xiaoyou, then Dragunov, then Deviljin and now King... it's only a matter of time before people focus on the next character. Instead of learning the character's weaknesses, they prefer to cry. Great video by the way.
Very informative, also really funny! My win rate against King is probably 10-20% but I keep getting better. There's probably worse cheese out there but I will have to test that now.
its one of his tools that you have to respect though. its his get in, CH KND (used to launch on T7 which is one of his absolute key moves), safe, homing power hit tool but its not going to be his turn to pressure if you block it safest bet is to block that since its reactable due to the slow startup, or commit to a counter hit on hard read if you can see it (which is risky). the only reason that move can get you is because he caught you moving and not being aware with spacing
iirc he's gotta be on around -7 to -9 on block, so he pretty much can't do anything other than trying to win back the neutral game. it's safe, but its not going to be his turn despite the move being unpunishable. he is taking risk if he's opting for pokes on that frame disadvantage EDIT*: ok i just checked in game and its actually -5. a jab can beat pretty much all of his attacking options including the fastest ones (jab or giant swing). theoretically you can do a high crushing low poke to check him after you block ff1 (to duck under his jab and throws and also beating his sidestep options) just in case if a king player can read your jab retaliation by sidestepping right. what's important is that he's definitely on a frame disadvantage if you block it
For those who hate King's grab, the reason it only shines now is because of counter grab and blue grab. There was a "Bug" on the grab that was supposed to have been known by Namco, but it might turn out that that "Bug" may not actually be a "Bug" but an actual feature. King's grab can be amplified by doing blue grab - which is easier said than done. When we said amplified, it just makes King's throw damage be the same as max damage as before since his throw damage, believe it or not has been reduced. But here is the thing. A true king player doesn't rely on ff->N2. Nor will they rely on the dashing Knee. True king players will rely in closing the gap using tracking moves and with his bread and butter move from the first tekken tag now back on the menu, his options to close in is now much better. What you guys need to be aware of is actually ff+1+2 it closes gaps, has good tracking, makes a great counter for a guaranteed setup etch. Also, a true King player will always wait to do a counter, either to do a juggle or throw because King's counter attacks are freaking STRONG. They will poke you to counter attack them so that they can finish you off much faster. Ah almost forgot. You must be aware that although it's rare, there are King players that actually mastered King's Kick and Punch counter. This is because most of the damaging moves for juggle starters, pokes or setup are either using 2, like the Mishimas Wind God Fist or by Kicks like Hoarang. You really need to fear these king players who mastered King's counter and parry because King's Punch Counter cannot be chickened out, and so does his Kick counters. This counters can lead to setups and even at times painful ground throws or people's elbow. King is easy to use, but in reality HARD TO MASTER. No player in the world has actually MASTERED KING, since his arsenal is so diverse that majority of the King players fall in the "Meta" trap of move list since, lets admit it, it's hard to memorize all of King's moves, more so than your typical characters that are either a Juggling power house, Counter, or poker type character. King actually is the Jack of all trades in the game, hence he could either be easy to predict at high Elo/Rank or a pain in the ass - Literally.
1:26 I think he made a mistake here, Jaguar Step 1+3 and Jaguar Step 2+4 are both the same throw and can be broken with either 1 or 2 just like regular throws.
I'll never understand why so many players complain about pluggers and then say they plug against certain characters. Learning from loss is key to getting better.
Im a King main and I cant even throw opponents as they keep spamming safe wr frames fuck all yall for hating King when we have Jun that can easily take half of your life.
As a king player watched this video to learn of how people fight my boi but the end touched my big wrestler heart main man gets it the real cheese is worse than king
That's where it becomes a 50/50 guessing game whether or not a crouch grab will come out (and those are unbreakable). Either you gotta risk an unbreakable or be real good at breaking grabs.
King is infamous for being a pest in the lower ranks. Anyone who have been there knows this. Your average S1 T7 Green rank King would just cycle a handful of moves, spamming them over and over. You can't expect a player at that level to be able to fuzzy guard or react to all the stagger kick variations, or break throws, or know chain throw breaks, or react to shining wizard, or to break 1+2 every single time, or to know that you should sidestep him from a distance. Lower rank King's abuse this. Then when they face someone who have labbed King properly, they just fall apart. So they get stuck in the lower ranks, bullying beginners with very predictable play that comes across as disrespectful. That's why so many hate him. No other character is like this. Like, they don't have a type, a kind of player that is easily recognizable.
As a Shinryu King player I came to check what things I don't use. Btw now you may help King players to beat Asuka, Alisa etc. Victor is impossible to beat anyway rn but I'm always mashed to death by Asuka even tho I know what to expect.
First everybody have to understand that you just have to "jab check" or even CH fish against King. Also high crushing attacks are highly effective. Additionally King is also quite easy to sidestep, his moves are to slow and if you allow a King Player to "spam", you cant handle any other character either. Beside the fact that most chars can not even only check King with jabs, usually King is getting checked with overpowered fast launcher moves like ewgf. Only beyond that (top 5%) King is getting really scary.
If someone sidestep i simply do f+4 or f+1+2 while running, and from that moment they stop sidesteping ^^ f+4 is very good move, tracking mid with good range, and from f+1+2 you have free low followup. Most people ducking chainthrows and ws 1+2 and db+2 are too slow and can be punished, high rank kings trying to do f+3 to throw after canceled crouch dash. For b 1,2 you can change to mid ender b 1,4 when someone ducking. For f2,1 you can change to f+2,d+2,1 to launch but second hit must commit, Lilmajin mashing this all the time. King has cure for everything : ]
can confirm, my friend who have never really played tekken picked up alisa because she was the most "WTF" character he could find and he absolutly slaps my king easy just button mashing because i can't grab him and i get like lost in all her weirdo bullshit because i don't know the character at all.
Played Tekken for years and i was always too lazy to check the hands when throws are coming. Im always just guessing it by experience. When it comes to King players, very rarely i see a King that uses most of his throws and playing the actual mind game. So most of the time after one round i usually know which are the ones he will likely do. But in my history shinning wizard is the throw i got hit by the most from all of them😂
Guy writing in chat "ITS NO HOPE, JUST PLUG" during rdc section had me cackling.
"look at his hands, which one goes further..."
Man, i can't even see his hands
Yep. I hate this is how the system works. So much shit is going on, by the time I've noticed I'm being grabbed, the hands are already on me and it's a blind guess.
@@wittyagThe alternative is a blind lucky guess as opposed to reaction.
@wittyag as annoying as it sounds, it can be done and high level players can easily see the hands, in tekken 7 I had S+ throwbreaking and my reaction times in general aren't the best but I could see the hand reaching to grab me
@carloshernandez3177 I'll just have to take your word. I've tried labbing the different throws to practice breaking them, and I'm lucky to break 1 out of 10. In a real match, forget it. Even if I know which one is coming I still can't break them.
@@wittyag one way is for example you fight vs a feng, he only has the uf 1+2 break the others are the generics and can be broken with either punch button so really, fengs will mainly use 1+2 so vs him specifically you can always hit 1+2 if he throws
"If you hate King watch this video"
So basically the entire playerbase of Tekken besides King mains? TMM sure knows how to attract an audience. 😂
King is bad but not as bad as drag, reina and victor rn
I watch it to learn more about my weaknesses
@@AKTalalHe may not be higher tier than those characters, but he is probably the cheesiest. Especially with his otherworldly heat smash.
@@AKTalal after Drag he is the most annoying character in the game
@@Topgamer357 I would welcome king nerfs, I don't need super powered moves.. king is and was a set up character and I like to play those mind games with my opponent
As a new tekken player the thing that kills me the most about learning his throw breaks is that you can scroll through 10 different throws that have the same 4 seconds of unbreakable startup animation and then find out they a handful of them have this oddly specific break. Alot of the chain grabs just have super ambiguous animations that makes dealing with them when you’ve already been caught quite challenging to get out of.
I was taught to break the first grab if not spam 1 cause it's a 5050 after that
I've been playing for a couple of years now and I still don't know how to break all his throws 😂
@@Yamisaru this is a very simple and good approach for new player and will avoid like most of his dmg.
@@Yamisaruyou'll die to a green rank king that only learned how to do rdc and kings bridge this way
Bro honestly if I were you I would just go and learn how the chain throws are done. There are only a few optimal routes and some of it’s a guessing game but learning which ones your opponent is going for will really help you however a good king player will be totally ambiguous with his chain throw game so your main concern should just be not to even be in a position where this fucker can grab you. I’ve been learning and labbing king for a few weeks just to understand where these guys are coming from and I can already feel where they are at disadvantages coupled with the fact that King is actually a really slow moving character.
Once you figure out the schtick of the King player, they either plug or they don't rematch
I plug kings
they also dont break throws, its a joke among the tk community but its true lol.
Not true. Never met a King player who's plugged or 1nDoned me. It's Victors that are all pieces of shit who do that nonsense.
@@RemorsefullyhumbleL + skill issue.
@@RemorsefullyhumbleI plug Xiaoyus, we are not the same.
"Not even JDCR, Arslan, or Knee are gonna break all of those throws"
Yea, ure right.. Just saw Arslan Xiaoyu playing against Atif's King, and Arslan can do nothing about the throws in so many times
Who? Juhdicur?
Arslan and Knee are ducking alot against King now.
even LowHigh tweet " I don’t know how to beat King " and many shit dude from tekken community advice him you can blah blah.
"can do nothing about the throws"
He was playing Xiaoyu, in what world does she struggle against throws?
Because it’s basically a 10 frame mixup because of the different breaks for different throws and as much as people would want you to believe they can react to the giant swing they can’t unless they are already anticipating their opponents timing. I can easily see how anyone like Arslan or Knee who have wicked calculated playstyles can struggle against a move this ridiculous when it’s in the hands of another insanely skilled player. We are literally talking jab speed despite the fact that it takes a few frames to initiate there are so many ways a good king can obscure his throw behind so many layers of close range safe poking.
I know TMM is more knowledgeable than me but I'm still gonna refute the "King loses to the real cheese" statement. King is the real cheese everywhere outside of truly high-level play. Ain't nobody gonna convince me it's harder to deal with Asuka's b3 into the easiest low parry of your life than it is to deal with homing 50/50 throws, armor that guarantees like 60 damage, actually very solid poking game, and 64 damage Heat Smash. Oh boohoo the opponent has chosen to evade highs for the next 3 seconds and now you have to use something other than your laser guided nuclear slot-machines. Nurse, take em to Winnie Hut Jr.'s, stat!
28:55, 29:25 didn't expect Asuka and Alisa guide, thank you TMM
And an in depth one at that
I'm extremely new to Tekken and I had THE SAME IDEA ABOUT THE KING COUNTERPLAY! That being, if the grappler is grappling...grapple him back!
"Sidestep him", Jack mains: "Looks like Im dead now" XD
Throws should not track. Change my mind.
If throws track and your Character has a true throw mixup, they are basically 10-12f homing high unblockables with a 50/50 chance of success/resetting neutral.
yeah, that change was too much
No clue why they removed the sidestep counterplay from throws. Counterhit throws being borderline unreactable is enough.
"Its a 50/50, everybody has those" - king players
Everybody risks getting punished for them too.
When you break a king throw, congratulations. You get to guess a second time when he just does it again
King's only true mix up throws are 30f start up
It's fine if they track, but if you break them you should get a relevant opportunity to punish with something around the same damage as a the throw you broke would do, so maybe a a ten frame punish for breaking a regular and a fifteen frame for breaking a command or certain command grabs? It's a bit insane the most reliable counter now is micro ducking unless you have superb reactions in live play.
In T8 to break chain throws you don't need to mash the button to fit into break window anymore, you can just hold the button. makes breaking RDC way easier.
What fr?
I'd rather mash it because I mash all buttons since I don't know the input.
Even in 7 mashing wasnt the best way to break it because the input window is so small that it can easily fit between 2 of your mashes unless you're so good at mashing that they span the entire time axis everywhere densely
@@christoffelsymbol1631 Mashing wasn't the best way, but it was usually better than not mashing. What I did was mash with 2 fingers(index and middle) on the same button. So that while one finger goes down the other goes up. And yeah, it did miss the window sometimes but I would have had a harder time trying to time that window properly.
Real King mains using this video to devise new mixups. You thought you knew what I was doing
Amen, brother
Can Yall go play WWE 2k or something those games recently have been great wrestling games just go grab people there 😭
@@Squidward-jv7goI play king because i like the characters design. If I want to spam cheap shit I would play another character. This character is in Tekken since Tekken 1. Learn the matchup and don't complain. I love every character in Tekken. It's my favourite series
@@Tuxedosnake00😂😂😂
@@Tuxedosnake00King is iconic, along with Paul, Law, and the Mishimas! Never was good with him but I always love to see him in action.
For anyone still confused about how to beat ali kicks:
A VERY important thing: You can't low parry or even hold down to block the ali kicks, if you have to input an actual crouching guard, so hold down-back. Hold crouch block when you see the first kick then react to the mid punch as it is 28 frames and very telegraphed. It's possible for the King player to do a single kick into the mid which will require you to very quickly be ready to react, which I find is the most tricky thing for me to block, but most King players won't do this. It's the classic Tekken cheese where the attacker just mashes the 4 button and the defender needs a phd to beat it. Also, make sure you are not neutral guarding, as the single ali kick into mid will connect, and eating all 3 will leave you open to a launcher afterwards like fcdf2 if you are not holding back. Another thing to mention that Mainman didn't is that i've noticed that most yellow/orange king players just mash it out which means they almost consistently do all 3 kicks into the mid so if you are struggling to react that could be something to fall back on.
You definitely CAN parry the ali kicks
that there is a difference between Neutral Guard and actually Guarding is one of the least intuitive things in Tekken that also doesn't get mentioned by the tutorial (afaik) and most online guides don't mention it either.
Something I didn't see mentioned is that if you mash any button while landing from Giant Swing your character will do a quick roll and you won't take the second part of the throw's damage, which makes a considerable difference. It's not possible if King throws you to a wall though, which is why Giant Swing becomes stronger when the King's back is to the wall.
After fighting a king player who royally kicked my butt online, I searched for this faster than a New York minute. Thank you.
Don't forget, King can mix you up with running GS and running SW. And if you're crounching, prepare for a mid launcher, crounch throws, and running 3 or running exploder
king mains in shambles right now
😂😂
Good
Yea I’m in shambles with multiple 10 to 20 game winning streaks 😂so sure
@@adamdickerson2762your really good👍🏻
Honestly, the shining wizard 1+2 break and ss his wr3 were the only 2 changes I needed to start beating king at destroyer 🙏
Crouch dash grab is a 3-way guess if you can Crouch Dash Muscle Buster.
And Running into Giant Swing is underrated
Also high level can crouch dash in a CH f3, with the just Frame 2 part
@@carloshernandez3177
That's more intermediate than high.
King doesn't have a move allocated to ff3, so dash cancelling out of a crouch dash will give you F3.
I hate King, but its really just throws in general that I hate in Tekken 8. You can't step them anymore, that counterplay is gone. If you get hit by a counterhit throw, you can't break it on reaction, but it's trivial to land them because grabs land in 10-12f. So they are jab speed, but they deal 40-60 damage on counterhit + oki, and you can't step them in either direction.
You have 10-14frames +20f break window on a normal hit thats for the most part reactable
@@Warsheep2k6 Counterhit throws have greatly reduced tech time, it goes down to like 10fr. When I say the throw comes in 10fr, I mean that its 10fr before it connects. My point is that its speed means it will beat a lot of attacks, then the counterhit throw will have reduced tech time.
@@Dopameme have you tried throwing out a 10f throw like the giant swing or shining wizard under pressure? If someone manages to do that he deserves that throw, change my mind. Not to mention that you can easily reduce the damage of giant swing I am not saying its not cheap - it is, but it is on you to avoid those situations, same with hellsweeps dragunovs 2d pressure or alisa chainsauce its just the first time in history that king is super buffed and is s tier instead of a or b tier due to the extreme changes on throws
@ep2k6 You only gave one possible circumstance where they could apply (grabbing out of pressure) when there are tons. And are the other throws much slower at 12-14f? No, you're still dealing crazy damage from a super fast CH because its too hard to tech. Even Knee himself said that a lot of strong players are getting hit by throws now because of CHs. That's because this actually does happen in practice very often.
"I am not saying its cheap - it is but it is on you to avoid it" This is obviously always true, you could add a move that oneshots the player, it'd still be on them to avoid it. The question is, is it reasonable? I think giving throws CH property AND full l/r tracking is unreasonable. The ambiguous King throws are extremely fast, high damage CH, tracking guessing games.
According to you pwgf(11-12f) god palm(10f) and cross jab(12f) should be removed because they do stupid damage if youbfail to avoid a ch @@Dopameme
Your my reason for learning kazuya im already grinding the ranks. Thank you SWE
TMM* SWE means Sweden lol
@@barutekkumost people call him SWE lmaoo😂 what are you on about
@@AaronPrater2956 gl replying to an 8 month old comment 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😇🤪😝😜🤑
Not gonna lie king is a cheap pos in T8 his comeback potential is greater than every1 cant begin to count how many times iv been robbed by his heat smash or his ff n 2, combine all that with his amazing poking and best throws in the game
Better than Paul ?
I loved king but tekken 8 king pisses me off
@@fatboy561 Paul is more honest but still bs at times
That heat smash should definitely be nerfed. The damage is too crazy
facts he needs damage nerf at the very least
I made a red rank King plug on me as Yoshimitsu. I out-bullshitted the bullshit grappler.
i can make you plug with king
Well you do have flash which is something that really messes with kings entire strategy.
I just reached red ranks as King doing nothing but shining wizard / hopkick mixups. And if someone could break shining wizard, I would mix it with running giant swing.
The funny thing is, this was the most amount of people who declined to rematch that I've seen.
I’m new to tekken and my dad mains king to I have been watching videos to help me beat him whenever I can and this is really helpful but I’m watching this in a quiet classroom with headphones but when he said “I get you ass” I started laughing thankfully i didn’t get in trouble
Here lies Sidestep,
May it always be remembered as a good anti-king defense.
2:20
throws track now bro
But you can't sidestep throws now? Best learn micro ducking I guess, sheeesh.
"Here lies sidestep for countering king." "Erm um durr sidestepping doesn't work" Holy moley reading comprehension is plummeting
@@hermankermit-warm1121My guy...read
The Asuka section had me rolling on the floor. Man this guy is funny.
Kings the best. He folds your clothes with his opponent inside of it
Love how every creator is guiding us on how to deal with King’s bs 😂
probably worth mentioning, if no one did before: If you get hit by the pedigree throw (the heat engager crouch throw), don't press anything for like a second on the ground. If you try to do a wakeup attack, king can just use heat smash and with that you lost like 75% of your lifebar in 2 moves
King is a cool character. It's the spammer players grabbing
It’s almost as if that’s the point of king’s character 😱
I was gonna say this. 😂😂😂 Everyone hates grapplers @@thanos5149
@grandpulse7970mechanically I absolutely hate king, but as a character he’s dope af. That take is the worst I’ve ever seen.
@@NovaShen4 some people really do just lie in bed on their stomachs daydreaming with a sigh, "how can i be different"
@@bobaorc7839 facts
Some other delinquency is that King will do U/F 3+4 into 1, and if it connects, he is guaranteed a U/F 2 flying elbow into you.
The other U/F 3+4 mix is the RKO that almost every King goes for that is duckable.
He does get a free U/F 2 but that's not his highest dmg and leaves him in a really bad state after. Kings best option after the mid is dash d2+3, alley kick which is all guaranteed
how do i counter the uf 3+4 followup?
9:30 remember if you get clipped by the first alley kick, hold DB, not just D or the rest will still hit.
No hate but this must be the 20th Anti King video I've seen. Somebody please tell me how to beat Hworang or any other character damn.
(the video was still interesting tho, thanks)
Hwoarang is not as bad as you might think. He's super weak to crouching and side-stepping. Lee on the other hand is significantly more busted.
crouch
The hardest thing about Kazuya in this game aside from 3,1 CD df1,df2 is trying to EWGF punish Rage Arts and other moves that are -15 on block.
He is a noob killer. Get in his face and mash all the time with a mix of highs and lows. If he is far, wait for him to attack and dodge punish. There are way more annoying/better characters to deal with than him.
I’ve always understood the leading arms dictate what to break, but with the costumes and proximity to the person covering the limbs, I find it hard to see it in that split second
When a costume makes it more confusing look at the shoulders rather than which hand is further
I don’t think I’ve ever clicked on a video faster than this one
When he does giant swing, he has a more pronounced roar. If you train yourself to listen for the roar rather than the hands, it can be a bit more consistent.
Kind of like when you hear Steve's over here or Azucenas buzzin.
Need the anti hwoarang vid. Big appreciation for the tips!
Yes!
I wouldn’t “time your breaks” for the crouch dash throw strings. It is a guessing game but you can identify the routes and try to adapt. I usually mash depending on what the first crouch dash throw was. Unfortunately that means if even the guy doesn’t go for a rolling death cradle or a kings bridge they can do other routes for less damage still. So… but hey you CAN mash the throw breaks idk
you absolutely can mash to escape rdc, but if you want to make sure it never misses you can't leave more than a 3f gap between each press. Alternatively just hold down the button lol
Shout out to all the future Tekken newcomers like me who was doing great until they hit Garyu and started going up against kings and was gonna swear off the game until you decided to stop tilt cueing and go look up a guide. I love this the way you have such hatred for King. "Launch Him". "You have to launch him" "Don't let him get away with that". Heard sensei. Heard.
It's funny to see how a different character gets hated every week. It started with Xiaoyou, then Dragunov, then Deviljin and now King... it's only a matter of time before people focus on the next character. Instead of learning the character's weaknesses, they prefer to cry. Great video by the way.
What I gathered from this video, is that, actually, we all need to collectively shift our hatred towards Alisa
You can duck at any time during muscle armor, simply do df and you counter any throw or low attempt to beat your powercrush (db 1+2)
This really needed to be made before a a Jun, Dragonuv, Xiayou, Hwoarang, and Lee video? Characters that can just camp out in front with strings?
Clicking this video because I'm an anti-monarchist from the year 1562
29:15 tekken players all go through joker origin stories
you forgot the f,f+2 shenanigans
that shit is plus on block
and it can be followed up with a chest attack and will guarantee a jab
As a King main, who just got off a match with a zafina who was literally crawling on the ground 90% of the match, I appreciate the last part lol
me a king player:
i wanna make a trade offer with u. i get a big hug and you get -100 hp. wanna decline?? guess my break >:)
Very informative, also really funny! My win rate against King is probably 10-20% but I keep getting better. There's probably worse cheese out there but I will have to test that now.
> "if you hate King, watch this video"
> watched the video
> hate even more
Now we need a anti-Dragunov, Azucena, Victor, and Xiaoyu guide from you.
remember most newbie king cant giant swing so you can narrow down what moves he uses so you can just plug with less stress XD
I wish he mentioned King's ff1 somewhere in the vid tbh, was waiting to see the "counter play" to that move, shit hits from like halfscreen
So do many characters strings that have built in counter hit launchers. FF 1 is slow..
@@NineTails87yeahhh no
@@row6191 There's not much he can get from it anyway. Unlike characters that can spam strings from full screen.
its one of his tools that you have to respect though. its his get in, CH KND (used to launch on T7 which is one of his absolute key moves), safe, homing power hit tool but its not going to be his turn to pressure if you block it
safest bet is to block that since its reactable due to the slow startup, or commit to a counter hit on hard read if you can see it (which is risky). the only reason that move can get you is because he caught you moving and not being aware with spacing
iirc he's gotta be on around -7 to -9 on block, so he pretty much can't do anything other than trying to win back the neutral game. it's safe, but its not going to be his turn despite the move being unpunishable. he is taking risk if he's opting for pokes on that frame disadvantage
EDIT*: ok i just checked in game and its actually -5. a jab can beat pretty much all of his attacking options including the fastest ones (jab or giant swing). theoretically you can do a high crushing low poke to check him after you block ff1 (to duck under his jab and throws and also beating his sidestep options) just in case if a king player can read your jab retaliation by sidestepping right. what's important is that he's definitely on a frame disadvantage if you block it
For those who hate King's grab, the reason it only shines now is because of counter grab and blue grab. There was a "Bug" on the grab that was supposed to have been known by Namco, but it might turn out that that "Bug" may not actually be a "Bug" but an actual feature. King's grab can be amplified by doing blue grab - which is easier said than done. When we said amplified, it just makes King's throw damage be the same as max damage as before since his throw damage, believe it or not has been reduced.
But here is the thing. A true king player doesn't rely on ff->N2. Nor will they rely on the dashing Knee. True king players will rely in closing the gap using tracking moves and with his bread and butter move from the first tekken tag now back on the menu, his options to close in is now much better. What you guys need to be aware of is actually ff+1+2 it closes gaps, has good tracking, makes a great counter for a guaranteed setup etch.
Also, a true King player will always wait to do a counter, either to do a juggle or throw because King's counter attacks are freaking STRONG. They will poke you to counter attack them so that they can finish you off much faster.
Ah almost forgot. You must be aware that although it's rare, there are King players that actually mastered King's Kick and Punch counter. This is because most of the damaging moves for juggle starters, pokes or setup are either using 2, like the Mishimas Wind God Fist or by Kicks like Hoarang. You really need to fear these king players who mastered King's counter and parry because King's Punch Counter cannot be chickened out, and so does his Kick counters. This counters can lead to setups and even at times painful ground throws or people's elbow.
King is easy to use, but in reality HARD TO MASTER. No player in the world has actually MASTERED KING, since his arsenal is so diverse that majority of the King players fall in the "Meta" trap of move list since, lets admit it, it's hard to memorize all of King's moves, more so than your typical characters that are either a Juggling power house, Counter, or poker type character.
King actually is the Jack of all trades in the game, hence he could either be easy to predict at high Elo/Rank or a pain in the ass - Literally.
1:26 I think he made a mistake here, Jaguar Step 1+3 and Jaguar Step 2+4 are both the same throw and can be broken with either 1 or 2 just like regular throws.
I noticed that every king wresting move like shining wizar or other trows... the audience go nuts
I'll never understand why so many players complain about pluggers and then say they plug against certain characters. Learning from loss is key to getting better.
Watching the whole video, and then realizing there’s another jab at asuka. Well played sir 😂
Im a King main and I cant even throw opponents as they keep spamming safe wr frames fuck all yall for hating King when we have Jun that can easily take half of your life.
Cry about it, your character is busted, unfair, unfun and unskilled. I’d rather lose to a thousand Juns than one King
YoUr ChArAcTer Is BuStEd, UnFaIr, UnFuN and UnSkilLed @@kmk1225
@@kmk1225Sounds like you’re crying too
I really needed this guide, so thank you!!!
Wavedash in and 1+2 grab them works like a charm
King is true Zangief now. You literally have to zone him to stand a chance. Because once he gets his hands on you, it's over.
Main man sounds like dr rockso from metalocalypse near the end of this video haha.
Watching this as a KING main to understand how people will anti-bullshit me so I can better bullshit them
Kings finally good and everyone suddenly hates him
when wasn't he good?
Omg how much I needed this Video
Usually the only mixup I have to eat is the forced one after I block heatsmash. Don't think you can do anything about that one with throws though.
As a king player watched this video to learn of how people fight my boi but the end touched my big wrestler heart main man gets it the real cheese is worse than king
Ive gotten into the habit of just ducking throws at this point
Same tbh, I've fought only a few kings that can mix up their throws with mids well so I tend to just duck but it's a habit I'll need to break
A good king will shut that shit down
I just start crouch grabbing
That's where it becomes a 50/50 guessing game whether or not a crouch grab will come out (and those are unbreakable). Either you gotta risk an unbreakable or be real good at breaking grabs.
Plot twist he has duck throws
As a Raven main, i just parry his armor run mixup
King is infamous for being a pest in the lower ranks. Anyone who have been there knows this. Your average S1 T7 Green rank King would just cycle a handful of moves, spamming them over and over. You can't expect a player at that level to be able to fuzzy guard or react to all the stagger kick variations, or break throws, or know chain throw breaks, or react to shining wizard, or to break 1+2 every single time, or to know that you should sidestep him from a distance. Lower rank King's abuse this. Then when they face someone who have labbed King properly, they just fall apart. So they get stuck in the lower ranks, bullying beginners with very predictable play that comes across as disrespectful. That's why so many hate him. No other character is like this. Like, they don't have a type, a kind of player that is easily recognizable.
Main man acknowledges your Tribal Chief ☝️
Rock, paper,....RDC!!!
take your cutscene and you will love it😂😂😂
Youre such a film buff tmm i love it
As a Shinryu King player I came to check what things I don't use. Btw now you may help King players to beat Asuka, Alisa etc. Victor is impossible to beat anyway rn but I'm always mashed to death by Asuka even tho I know what to expect.
This video will make Kings stronger, thank you main man
To be fair learning all the chain throws is actually difficult so there is some skill.
figure 4 leg lock is now a 1+2 break
20:37 "Even if you feel like he doesnt get that much damage with the chainthrow" Just did 60-85 dmg with a throw like an average dmg from an combo
Lil Majin would hate this video 😂.. Thank you For this tutorial and knowledge
Most of beginners know how to Giant Swing and they rarely do the musclebuster, so you better push 1.
First everybody have to understand that you just have to "jab check" or even CH fish against King. Also high crushing attacks are highly effective. Additionally King is also quite easy to sidestep, his moves are to slow and if you allow a King Player to "spam", you cant handle any other character either. Beside the fact that most chars can not even only check King with jabs, usually King is getting checked with overpowered fast launcher moves like ewgf. Only beyond that (top 5%) King is getting really scary.
If someone sidestep i simply do f+4 or f+1+2 while running, and from that moment they stop sidesteping ^^ f+4 is very good move, tracking mid with good range, and from f+1+2 you have free low followup. Most people ducking chainthrows and ws 1+2 and db+2 are too slow and can be punished, high rank kings trying to do f+3 to throw after canceled crouch dash. For b 1,2 you can change to mid ender b 1,4 when someone ducking. For f2,1 you can change to f+2,d+2,1 to launch but second hit must commit, Lilmajin mashing this all the time. King has cure for everything : ]
Nice profile pic. Lando sends his regards.
Me a king main watching this just to see what NOT to do anymore
Nice, 21:58 guide for deaf people ❤
love him or hate him you can't deny he's spitting facts
can confirm, my friend who have never really played tekken picked up alisa because she was the most "WTF" character he could find and he absolutly slaps my king easy just button mashing because i can't grab him and i get like lost in all her weirdo bullshit because i don't know the character at all.
TMM is going crazy at the end xD
Mainman you have abandoned the way the of the Masku, how dare you
The fact that there is no indication for 1 or 2 breaks in some of his grabs is tilting.
Main Man, can you make a video of best Kazuya punishments Vs King?
Hi TMM, can you make a video on how to beat LEE please? Thanks
Played Tekken for years and i was always too lazy to check the hands when throws are coming. Im always just guessing it by experience. When it comes to King players, very rarely i see a King that uses most of his throws and playing the actual mind game. So most of the time after one round i usually know which are the ones he will likely do. But in my history shinning wizard is the throw i got hit by the most from all of them😂
Seems like they wanted to make King as scary as Zangief
Reveal to everyone King uses steroids and his wrestling career is over.
Yeah USADA’s gonna make that beast into a kitten real quick
i can see throws from distance but close i cant