Dale, seriously you should talk with headstamp publishing, which is founded by Ian of forgottenweapons, in order to write a book of Stgw. 57. Your information should deserve it and Ian will welcome your research!
@@aleksandernordgardenrdner1520 You know, not only would I buy that book... But while it is always "years away" and therefore frustrating to authors and book buyers/ consumers, you just might consider setting up a "Go Fund Me" page to accumulate capital while you search out a press or printer and a photographer and obtain all the copyright/ permissions. This can be frustrating. A fairly ordinary poster on what not to do with an open bolt SMG from the Swedish (not Swiss! not Swederland!) air force required the equivalent of $80 to get "publication rights!" Still, there are methods worth exploring...
@@davecarlson1918 There certainly are methods worth exploring. To my mind, the best, most viable route is to publish it through Headstamp Publishing. Their quality is second to none, and I am greatly enjoying their first book.
@@aleksandernordgardenrdner1520 Oh sure! I quite agree! I'm reading Ian's book on French service rifles with considerable interest. I'm eagerly awaiting Jonathan Ferguson's forthcoming book on bullpup arms in the UK. Thing is, Headstamp may already have its "hands full" with Ferguson's forthcoming book, another one on guns in Kabul, Afghanistan, and Maxim Popënker's Avtomat from Fedërov to Kalashnikov and beyond book, no? So if Headstamp was willing and able--which would be great!--it might be a long wait? I agree that it couldn't hurt to make a discrete inquiry... On the other hand, there are other presses too...
this is THE video for Swiss rifle grenade and Stgw 57 fans to watch. I love how the dissertation transitions smoothly from perfectly enunciated technical details to "crapping their pants" anticipating recoil!
Dale is awesome! Thank you for taking the effort to collect, digitize and share this information! In such a well done and interesting presentation I might add!
I'm blown away at the quality of the Swiss archival footage shown around the @12:30 mark. You can make out shadows inside the tire treads. Exceptional even by today's standards.
My father was in the Swiss professional Army for 12 years (70-82) I shared this with him and he said (In good spirits- not in a hateful way) that "holy god, that Chinese kid knows more than I do!" followed by "yes those grenades were fun, unless you were skinny"
I am sure at somepoint the idea of using directed gas(ses) to act as an metaphorical 'accelerator lever' and or 'buffer spring' aid, upon aspects of a toggle-link's mechanism have been tried, or at least thought of within a mind(s) of someone or some persons - even perhaps utilising chamber fluting to blow mud/crud/debris out of the link's closing area & locking areas.
That's why when using the carrots, we were instructed to shoot it underarm, you would break your collarbone otherwise. Broken wrists weren't uncommon...
This is one of the best and informative videos I’ve ever seen! Awesome! Here in Holland, Swiss rifles like the K31 and StG90 are very popular, so I created respect for Zwitserland and there weapons. Came across this, and watched it 3 times!
I appreciate someone actually talking about technical details, too many times I find videos and all the people are willing to talk about is some hero who used the weapon, or how to be tacticool with it, or have no technical details at all. Thanks, looking forward to part two watching.
@@DaletheStgwDude definitely. Even the sites that talk about the "history" of some weapons are more happy to talk about how some war hero used it to save the day rather than historical information about the actual device. I ran into this problem with the PIAT. My main goal was to get enough technical detail about it to safely take it apart ensure it was safe to use, and come up with a safe load for it. BOCN and a few other forums helped alot in that task by having technical info on the projectiles and the manuals helped with proper use, but not in enough detail to use them to make a round for it. Ended up putting an access to information request in with my government hoping to get an armourers manual, they didn't have that but they did have over 1000 pages of information that went over problems and other things that they had to work into their doctrine. I found out the info I needed to fire her, but found out so much more about the weapon just because of the archival documentation.
Hello al Gunners...... I come from Switzerland In addition, one should say that there were two versions of the "Rüäbli" .... "Carrots". The first "without additional propellant charge" for a range of 30m and the other with an additional propellant charge for a range of up to 270 m. The one with an additional propellant charge was the only one still in use from the early 1980s, because shooting at a tank at 30 m is extremely dangerous. You can't get that close to a tank. The carrots were hollow-charge projectiles that penetrated even the most massive steel. There were also steel grenades, fragmentation grenades, flares, etc. During my training in 1983 I shot ... 69 of these carrots, plus 2 real sharp steel grenades ... but was the only one in the company who was allowed to do that. We had a shooting book where everything was recorded. In addition, I fired 12 hand grenades plus about 20 shots with the Panzerfaust (rocket tube). After the training I had cracks in the joint capsule of my right thumb, because the carrots shot with propellant charge ... were really very uncomfortably strong. In the 80s these carrots were only shot with an archery shot or in a lying position, standing was no longer allowed. The rule was ... 3 shots in 12 seconds with 2 hits. That at 120-150 m firing range ...... but may have been different on each troop shooting range ..... depending on the distance possibilities. To shoot the carrots you needed an extra magazine, a "white-colored" aluminum magazine with 5 cartridges. Quasi-blind cartridges that only generated pressure but were without a projectile. You could also shoot shot carrots with the white cartridges after they had already been shot, only then they only flew 10m far .... (((-: The magazine had a locking button that you had to press to reload a new cartridge. Switzerland really has everything to do better, we want the others, that's why the carrot has become so big that nobody liked it anymore ...... And that's why the StGW-57 was so massive, neatly processed that you hit it like on the first day after tens of thousands of shots. But it was so heavy that we would all have preferred light rifles like the G-3. The StGW 57 costs between 150 and 300 francs, the bayonet perhaps 30 francs. Oh yes, and not all StGW have the relief grooves in the cartridge chamber, that was added later to achieve a certain improvement because of the case jamming, etc. With mine, however, there was never a malfunction, no sleeve jamming, yes, in the entire training there was never anything like a malfunction, a defect, etc. The Swiss never shoot it off the sandbag, but from bipod. The bipod in the rear position locks for normal single fire, the bipod at the front of the barrel locks for series fire .... so full-size car. There was a small white plate on the left of the handle of the StGW, it had to be turned over for continuous fire, it said black ..... you could shoot all types of fire. The white position of the plate was intended to prevent accidental fire from suddenly shooting in the shooting range. So whoever went to the annual compulsory exercise (the compulsory as they say here) shooting distance is always 300m here, and went into the shooting range, had to have the rifle set to "white". Greetings Peter
Lot cheaper to practice with than the 40mm ones. Blank practice ones can be reused over & over again. Plus with bullet trap one’s one doesn’t have to use special ammo.
At the end of the first day firing the training grenades in Recruit School in Airolo in 1980, I think we had at least 30% of the blokes in line at the KZ, infirmary.
Archibald Tuttle But weren’t the Dragon schools in Chur at that time? I was a Heavy Mortar recruit in Chur in 1979 and we were sent to Airolo in 1980, where I did my NCO RS, as the place was to be taken by the Dragon schools. Later, in 1981, the Heavy Mortarts were sent to Tesserete/Isone.
Congratulation for this very good video, brings back a lot of memories. I shot my first UG back in summer 1983. Direct fire with rocket boosted UGs, the ones with the yellow/greenish tails were a beast. We had this exercise which I hated: two shoots in 15 seconds with two hits. Sounds not really impressive. However the reloading process with the white magazines which locked the bolt was cumbersome. And the recoil was impressive. Indirect fire was fun. Looking forward to part 2.
Thank you guys dale and bloke i get more and more interested in those ,,rüeblis"... already have 3 of them and i'm looking forward to shoot one of these. I wanna try that so bad but never had a oportunity.. I need to know more about it so please feed me some more carrots..
Can't wait for Part 2. Rifle Grenades make a lot of sense in mountainous terrain. That's why the Yugoslavs loved them so much. Destroy the 1st and last vehicle and now you have an armed prison camp. The Croatians did exactly that in their war of independence albeit with muscles instead of grenades.
Wow, what a small internet! This video has been on my Watch Later list for a while, and I just followed a link from a video on Dale's channel back to here!
You can see it very clearly that they never received proper training in the correct handling of the Stgw 57. All manipulations were taught to the soldiers almost every day in a drill-like manner, so that they could do it in their sleep. I trained my people on this weapon as a non-commissioned officer. Today, as a reminder of my military days, I still have this weapon. The thing is good, accurate and indestructible, works perfectly under the most difficult conditions. During the period of service from 1976 to 1995, I have not seen anyone who had a breakdown or technical problems. This gun is very versatile, can be used as a mini-mine launcher for grenades (or illumination shells) and even anti-tank. It weighs about 7 kg. The magazine has 24 rounds, you usually get 4 magazines of 24 rounds each. The final acceleration of the GP11 cartridge is reached after 600 meters. Combat distance normally 100-200 meters, training distance 300 meters.
Also handy if the Swiss ever went to war against a naval power as it's a freaking torpedo! Good presentation, Dale clearly has done his research and comes over really well, very informative.
Wilfred Stokes invented what was to become the forerunner of the modern mortar in 1915 and went into service 1916/17. However he was an engineer not an entrepreneur and never patented the idea and Brandt stepped in and collared the design but he did call them the "stokes/Brandt" and over the years the Stokes got lost somewhere.
What is that light tank at 20:33? An old Belgian Char Léger de Reconnaissance Vickers-Carden-Loyd Mod.1934 T.15? Edit: answered own question. It is the Panzerwagen 34/35 - Vickers Armstrong Light Tank Model 1934/35. Same family as the Belgian. Thank you for presentations for grown ups who don't just say 'yee hah' when they see a gun......
I love this dude! Asian man, living in Europe(?) but has a pretty strong American accent and is a Swiss weapons expert! LOL... such is the world today. Awesome! Just subbed his channel and looking forward to watching his videos after this one!
I remember my father coming home from army service when i was a little boy with a swollen right hand from pulling the trigger during firing a rifle-grenade. in his next repetition-course the following year he bound a little piece of rope on the trigger and pulled it that way. no more injuries.. smile. by the way.. in the Swiss Army the rifle grenade was called "Rungglä".. wich is the the swiss word for "Runkle Beet".. has nothing to do with "Carrots" besides the orange color.. smile..
You are doing great work and research. Just a question tought as I wasn't trained on these : how were the operators supposed to aim ? Just by luck or they could still use the riffles aiming components ? Given the short distance and the curved trajectory this would be quite difficult to model trough an aiming system no ?
Very cool video and much appreciated. I always thought that rifle grenads were a awesome idea especially for defense. Just imagine a whole rifle platoon lying in ambush all armed with rifle grenades instead of maybe 6 guys with m203s that would be a huge fire power increase. but I never knew of the complexities that comes with them. thanks again. 👍🇦🇺
Well done Dale. I agree with previous comments about a book. Get with Headstamp while there is interest. If Ian can make a success of a niche market with French military rifles so can you with the STG 57 and rifle grenades.
Excellent stuff chaps... One teeny observation; I think Stokes was the progenitor of the modern mortar, not Brandt, although there was probably a not inconsiderable amount of parallel development? Being of an age to have experienced the ENERGA fired off the SLR and having been involved in the sporadic use of rifle grenades in UK service, I look forward to seeing the second half of this.. My own view of rifle grenades is that they had a worrying habit of falling into the hands of the least sensible member of whichever military grouping was involved, often with dire consequences! One of the great issues with rifle grenades that I was dealing with is the bore safety and arming distance problem. As they are inherently short range weapons it follows that they need a short arming distance, otherwise they are useless in street fighting situations. On the other hand they are being fired by steely eyed, but generally unprotected infantryman, who might object to a bore or near bore premature..! The forces available to you in a rifle grenade for powering and unlocking safety features are not that great either. The ENERGA had a safety shroud blocking the path between the spit back fuze and the base detonator which was basically a variation on the mechanism used to work retractable ball point pens! It was SOP to shake an ENERGA before loading and if it rattled it meant that the safety shroud had fallen off and that you were now shaking an armed HEAT grenade!
@@DaletheStgwDude Agreed to both of your points, however there is now no safety arming distance and the chance of a muzzle prem is significantly increased..! I reserve my antipathy towards rifle grenades as they seem to emit a wisp of purple smoke whenever they appear! Jolly good fun though! Another bit of ENERGA trivia for you... the tip of the impact fuze is made from tungsten as an anti bounce off measure! The window breaker of the early series Wheelbarrow EOD robot was made from recycled fuze tips.. It was a spring powered gizmo that smacked the tungsten tip against a car windscreen to smash it (..which it did!)
I've always been curious about these weapons, but everything I've seen was in Swiss German or French. This is a case where the K31 having a detachable magazine was really beneficial. They could keep a spare mag of grenade firing cartridges and the magazine was painted white to avoid confusion.
..the grenade blanks magazine was specifically made to be as it was, i.e; short length of a limited capacity, so the firer wouldn't risk breaking fingers when firing with the grenade trigger*, the steel colour just made the visual distinction much more obvious than feel & weight alone - minimizing errors in combat from fatigue, stress and other such human battlefield problems. *sometimes called a winter trigger by those unknowing of its real function, as much of a really utilised 'propaganda' aspect by the Swiss to try and give some secret, hidden-ness of rifle grenades being so widespread for their forces, due to the fears of the times of the 1950's Cold-War of the Swiss about the Soviets. I suggest you watch the Sturmghewr 57 episode with Dale if you haven't already, it is most informative and insightful.
The detail is unbelievable. The Swiss government historian society (if there is such a thing!) should employ you to public speak! When are you continuing the series on the straight pull Swiss rifles???
My shoulder hurts just looking at these things....Really glad we didnt have to shoot these in combat lol..Our 40mm probably aren't as effective as these as far as explosive payload but I like my shoulder in the socket thank you very much lol
I can see this grenades being effective in urban areas..One things tanks struggle with till this day is urban combat. get up high on a building and let the tank roll through until its between you and the other building, fire straight down on them letting gravity help and were the armor was weak
@@DaletheStgwDude indeed, although perhaps he assumed the sholder firing troops in the trenches in the Swiss Mil' film are 'normal' operations..?? Or is being sympatheic to those soldiers that do have to shoulder fire them as the more emergency part of their training requirements compared to butt firing (pun not or is intended).
@@DaletheStgwDude Thanks for the reply Dale...This video is my first introduction to even hearing about this rifle. Seeing the history and it's intended use makes me wanna buy one...If I can even find one that is
ОК,but what would happen, if you accidentally put a ball through any of those grenades, wich aren't equipped with bullet traps. Would it damage the rifle?
It would probably just blow up in your face killing you instantly. Imagine all the propellant, gunpowder, and cartridge all going off at once all of a foot from your face.
Thank you BLOKE AND DALE for a very complete PE 57 report. Every one Bitches about a 12 pound rifle but it is a light machinegun not as rifle. It is a lot lighter than a BAR or a BREN. I fear though you did not find the Epitome of Swiss Anal retentive engineering. Check out the steel BB on a peg cast into the bottom of the Aluminum BI POD LEGS so they would not wear down when fired off concrete. You took the easy way out by not removing the locking rollers. With the 2 Jesus springs on top (as in Christ where will I find another one of those). The reassembly instructions calls for 2 dabs of Petroleum jelly to hold the roller wedges still. The PE57 offered a small bent oval with a slot on the end for $5.00 to hold up the chamber loaded indicator. At the time it seemed like $5.00 should have bought a hundred of them. When the PE 57 was on sale in the US a 25 round clip would have cost $25.00 to fill. You could have bought a nice Nazi P 38 for the cost of 2 mags full of Norma 7.5 Swiss the only ammo available then. No one ever asks but I much prefer shooting my PE57 to my SIG AMT.
Are there two 'modes' of firing rifle grenades ? Is one a 'high angle', like a mortar, with anti-personal fragmentation munitions, and the other anti-tank at a low angle ? Is the anti-tank grenade only fired at one distance ? or is there a sight with different ranges marked on it ?
Bloke and Dale, out of curiosity, why were some of the videos outlining the use of the rifle grenade in Italian? I would understand promotional or training materials made in either French or German. Did Italy use this system as well?
Almost Anything Italian is the 3rd official language of Switzerland. Ticino is an Italian speaking canton and neighbouring Graubunden has both Italian and German. There is also Rumansch which is a sort of curious mix of all three and latin.
Excellent presentation which clearly has a lot of work put into both research and presentation. I had no idea the Swiss made such extensive use of rifle grenades and it is interesting to learn how they solved a problem facing both of the neutral statex as their AT weapons could not keep up with wartime developments. Here in Sweden the emergency solution was to copy the panzerfaust which ended up in Swedish hands thanks to the Finns ”misplacing” some of theirs. (Swedish infantry used improved Panzerfausts into the 1960s) Post war the m/48 Carl Gustav RCL was developed and it in turn meant that the Swedish army never took an interest in rifle grenades.
It seems, in the end, that the Swiss should have focused in a great battle rifle and a crew served recoiless rifle separately. Make every fourth man an antitank gunner. Would have made this weapon way more successful, considering how good it did as an automatic rifle.
I wonder why Dale decided to study Swiss rocket powered exploding carrots of doom in such detail? I wonder if he can get in contact with Ian so his knowledge can be added to the Forgotten Weapons archive.
Gotta be close. Tanks can engage you at ranges beyond your capability. Hoping you can hide until close is a gutsy move and tanks come in groups just looking for guys like you if their infantry hasn't got to you first.
26:49 yeah, those are swiss alright... iron sight, at that range with every shots? Like damn, from the tracer... his shot is pretty much dead on, so is the follow up...
@@BlokeontheRange Agreed, but even with well made AR-15 and good modern optic sight available I rarely see people able to make that kind of shot that quickly especially with the follow up... give perhaps a second or two longer between shots and perhaps there'll be more ppl in the range that can do it, but most definitely can't do it that fast.
@@IonoTheFanatics This is not meant to be hostile to the people you see around you or their army, but this thought came to mind: That's what the aircraft are for.
Nearly all 5.56 NATO service rifles have a 22mm flash hider for compatibility with one particular brand of bullet trap grenade manufacturd by Mecar. So yes you probably could stuff one over the muzzle of a 416.
@@BlokeontheRange The British Army used them on the L85A1 prior to the HK A2 program and the UGL. No one was very impressed with them to be fair. The South Africans love the things though. Both all steel rifles though.
@0:00 holy... Today that would leave soldiers crying and later suing the state for their PTSD that they received during the military training. Those things are freaking mortar rounds haha
@@DaletheStgwDude An interesting thing I thought of when you talked about how hollow charges worked and how sensitive they are to spin. The first heat/hollow charge for the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle did just straight up engage with the rifling spinning the thing as a normal rifle projectile. That was of course found out to drastically reduce the effectiveness of the heat charge. So they redesigned they heat projectile to have an outer girdle engaging the rifling and spinning around the payload giving gyroscopic stabillization while still allowing the payload to not spin. This unfortunately lead to lower velocity for the heat round giving it a much different trajectory from the smoke and HE rounds leading to the need of different sight settings for different rounds.
Dale, seriously you should talk with headstamp publishing, which is founded by Ian of forgottenweapons, in order to write a book of Stgw. 57. Your information should deserve it and Ian will welcome your research!
That is another Headstamp book I would buy! Not to mention a PE-57 or AMT (semi-auto Stgw 57) if I could find one for sale here in the USofA.
Hell! Yes! I would buy that book!
@@aleksandernordgardenrdner1520 You know, not only would I buy that book... But while it is always "years away" and therefore frustrating to authors and book buyers/ consumers, you just might consider setting up a "Go Fund Me" page to accumulate capital while you search out a press or printer and a photographer and obtain all the copyright/ permissions. This can be frustrating. A fairly ordinary poster on what not to do with an open bolt SMG from the Swedish (not Swiss! not Swederland!) air force required the equivalent of $80 to get "publication rights!" Still, there are methods worth exploring...
@@davecarlson1918 There certainly are methods worth exploring. To my mind, the best, most viable route is to publish it through Headstamp Publishing. Their quality is second to none, and I am greatly enjoying their first book.
@@aleksandernordgardenrdner1520 Oh sure! I quite agree! I'm reading Ian's book on French service rifles with considerable interest. I'm eagerly awaiting Jonathan Ferguson's forthcoming book on bullpup arms in the UK. Thing is, Headstamp may already have its "hands full" with Ferguson's forthcoming book, another one on guns in Kabul, Afghanistan, and Maxim Popënker's Avtomat from Fedërov to Kalashnikov and beyond book, no? So if Headstamp was willing and able--which would be great!--it might be a long wait? I agree that it couldn't hurt to make a discrete inquiry... On the other hand, there are other presses too...
I like Dale, he's really knowledgeable and funny at the same time. Please get him back for more videos
this is THE video for Swiss rifle grenade and Stgw 57 fans to watch. I love how the dissertation transitions smoothly from perfectly enunciated technical details to "crapping their pants" anticipating recoil!
Absolutely greatest presentation I've seen on rifle grenades and were only halfway done.
Ooh, episode 2 is just over an hour! $5 Patrons already have access, hint hint ;)
@@BlokeontheRange as soon as i get that sweet, sweet quarantine money...
just as the really interesting bit starts... "end of part1"
Thanks for the awesome content!
Thanks! Part 2 next week, although $5 Patrons can already see it!
@@BlokeontheRange No 'hint hint'...great stuff, kind regards from Australia.
I love the rubber practice grenade "oh yes" it would be more fun than the "batten" rounds we were issued with
This is amazing! One scene from the archive footage where they talk in Italian was in Bellinzona, 5 minutes from my house.
Dale is awesome! Thank you for taking the effort to collect, digitize and share this information! In such a well done and interesting presentation I might add!
I'm blown away at the quality of the Swiss archival footage shown around the @12:30 mark. You can make out shadows inside the tire treads. Exceptional even by today's standards.
One of the most fascinating things I’ve seen on any gun channel. Exceptional work, Mr Deng!
This series is f*cking awesome! I’ve never seen archival footage like this; well done.
My father was in the Swiss professional Army for 12 years (70-82) I shared this with him and he said (In good spirits- not in a hateful way) that "holy god, that Chinese kid knows more than I do!" followed by "yes those grenades were fun, unless you were skinny"
Thank you Dale ,i wish more people would display this kind of commitment and diligence.Please more of this kind of videos.
Yes I have soooo been looking forward to this!
The SIG 57 is tied for my favorite firearm/weapon system with the fg42.
With all the ranges and competitions shut down, I'm really missing mine :-(
Nice to see Mr. Ding back.
Excellent presentation!
Thank you.
I had no idea that this would be so fascinating. This is an excellent presentation.
I don't own a Schmidt-Rubin, but it is nice to see footage of them in the hands of their original owners.
Why weren't those early rifle grenades toggle-locked? Everything in Switzerland was toggle-locked during those days.
Because Adolf Furrer was buisy developing a toggle-locked light bulb and didn't have time to work on rifle grandes.
I am sure at somepoint the idea of using directed gas(ses) to act as an metaphorical 'accelerator lever' and or 'buffer spring' aid, upon aspects of a toggle-link's mechanism have been tried, or at least thought of within a mind(s) of someone or some persons - even perhaps utilising chamber fluting to blow mud/crud/debris out of the link's closing area & locking areas.
26:25 - bugger me, that recoil looks ferocious.
That's why when using the carrots, we were instructed to shoot it underarm, you would break your collarbone otherwise. Broken wrists weren't uncommon...
It is.
Great presentation, can't wait for part 2.
This is one of the best and informative videos I’ve ever seen! Awesome! Here in Holland, Swiss rifles like the K31 and StG90 are very popular, so I created respect for Zwitserland and there weapons. Came across this, and watched it 3 times!
I appreciate someone actually talking about technical details, too many times I find videos and all the people are willing to talk about is some hero who used the weapon, or how to be tacticool with it, or have no technical details at all. Thanks, looking forward to part two watching.
@@DaletheStgwDude definitely. Even the sites that talk about the "history" of some weapons are more happy to talk about how some war hero used it to save the day rather than historical information about the actual device. I ran into this problem with the PIAT. My main goal was to get enough technical detail about it to safely take it apart ensure it was safe to use, and come up with a safe load for it. BOCN and a few other forums helped alot in that task by having technical info on the projectiles and the manuals helped with proper use, but not in enough detail to use them to make a round for it. Ended up putting an access to information request in with my government hoping to get an armourers manual, they didn't have that but they did have over 1000 pages of information that went over problems and other things that they had to work into their doctrine. I found out the info I needed to fire her, but found out so much more about the weapon just because of the archival documentation.
Hello al Gunners......
I come from Switzerland
In addition, one should say that there were two versions of the "Rüäbli" .... "Carrots". The first "without additional propellant charge" for a range of 30m and the other with an additional propellant charge for a range of up to 270 m.
The one with an additional propellant charge was the only one still in use from the early 1980s, because shooting at a tank at 30 m is extremely dangerous. You can't get that close to a tank.
The carrots were hollow-charge projectiles that penetrated even the most massive steel.
There were also steel grenades, fragmentation grenades, flares, etc.
During my training in 1983 I shot ... 69 of these carrots, plus 2 real sharp steel grenades ... but was the only one in the company who was allowed to do that.
We had a shooting book where everything was recorded.
In addition, I fired 12 hand grenades plus about 20 shots with the Panzerfaust (rocket tube).
After the training I had cracks in the joint capsule of my right thumb, because the carrots shot with propellant charge ... were really very uncomfortably strong.
In the 80s these carrots were only shot with an archery shot or in a lying position, standing was no longer allowed.
The rule was ... 3 shots in 12 seconds with 2 hits. That at 120-150 m firing range ...... but may have been different on each troop shooting range ..... depending on the distance possibilities.
To shoot the carrots you needed an extra magazine, a "white-colored" aluminum magazine with 5 cartridges.
Quasi-blind cartridges that only generated pressure but were without a projectile.
You could also shoot shot carrots with the white cartridges after they had already been shot, only then they only flew 10m far .... (((-:
The magazine had a locking button that you had to press to reload a new cartridge.
Switzerland really has everything to do better, we want the others, that's why the carrot has become so big that nobody liked it anymore ......
And that's why the StGW-57 was so massive, neatly processed that you hit it like on the first day after tens of thousands of shots. But it was so heavy that we would all have preferred light rifles like the G-3.
The StGW 57 costs between 150 and 300 francs, the bayonet perhaps 30 francs.
Oh yes, and not all StGW have the relief grooves in the cartridge chamber, that was added later to achieve a certain improvement because of the case jamming, etc.
With mine, however, there was never a malfunction, no sleeve jamming, yes, in the entire training there was never anything like a malfunction, a defect, etc.
The Swiss never shoot it off the sandbag, but from bipod. The bipod in the rear position locks for normal single fire, the bipod at the front of the barrel locks for series fire .... so full-size car.
There was a small white plate on the left of the handle of the StGW, it had to be turned over for continuous fire, it said black ..... you could shoot all types of fire.
The white position of the plate was intended to prevent accidental fire from suddenly shooting in the shooting range.
So whoever went to the annual compulsory exercise (the compulsory as they say here) shooting distance is always 300m here, and went into the shooting range, had to have the rifle set to "white".
Greetings
Peter
Great info. I wonder if the film of the Stgw 57 demo was fired with all tracers for the benefit of the filming?
Lot cheaper to practice with than the 40mm ones. Blank practice ones can be reused over & over again. Plus with bullet trap one’s one doesn’t have to use special ammo.
Nice work dale, clear you have passion for the technology. It’s critical we study this stuff.
At the end of the first day firing the training grenades in Recruit School in Airolo in 1980, I think we had at least 30% of the blokes in line at the KZ, infirmary.
Haha, can relate to that. PzAw RS 1984 in Romont! We had the guided anti-tank weapon (Dragon) but we had to shoot the "Runkeln" like crazy!
Archibald Tuttle But weren’t the Dragon schools in Chur at that time?
I was a Heavy Mortar recruit in Chur in 1979 and we were sent to Airolo in 1980, where I did my NCO RS, as the place was to be taken by the Dragon schools.
Later, in 1981, the Heavy Mortarts were sent to Tesserete/Isone.
@@Braun30 There were two Dragon Schools at that time. One in Chur and one in Romont. We shared the barracks with the cycling group (Radfahrer).
Oh what fun we had in 1988 shooting rifle grenades (in the NL army). But be careful as shrapnel does fly back (the eye gouging type)
Congratulation for this very good video, brings back a lot of memories. I shot my first UG back in summer 1983. Direct fire with rocket boosted UGs, the ones with the yellow/greenish tails were a beast. We had this exercise which I hated: two shoots in 15 seconds with two hits. Sounds not really impressive. However the reloading process with the white magazines which locked the bolt was cumbersome. And the recoil was impressive. Indirect fire was fun. Looking forward to part 2.
Thank you guys dale and bloke i get more and more interested in those ,,rüeblis"... already have 3 of them and i'm looking forward to shoot one of these. I wanna try that so bad but never had a oportunity.. I need to know more about it so please feed me some more carrots..
@@DaletheStgwDude LOL, "We don't need no stinking permits"-America. Love this presentation! I have a very nice Stgw 57, but no flying carrots.
This is why I love watching this channel. Can't wait for part II
Can't wait for Part 2. Rifle Grenades make a lot of sense in mountainous terrain. That's why the Yugoslavs loved them so much. Destroy the 1st and last vehicle and now you have an armed prison camp. The Croatians did exactly that in their war of independence albeit with muscles instead of grenades.
Wow, what a small internet! This video has been on my Watch Later list for a while, and I just followed a link from a video on Dale's channel back to here!
really enjoyed that, especially the archival footage. Thanks for taking the time!
I am a rifle grenade fanboy so this is manna from gun heaven for me. Bravo!
Fantastic video, guys. We all appreciate the research and work you both put into this.
Very educational, thank you Dale!
You can see it very clearly that they never received proper training in the correct handling of the Stgw 57. All manipulations were taught to the soldiers almost every day in a drill-like manner, so that they could do it in their sleep. I trained my people on this weapon as a non-commissioned officer. Today, as a reminder of my military days, I still have this weapon. The thing is good, accurate and indestructible, works perfectly under the most difficult conditions. During the period of service from 1976 to 1995, I have not seen anyone who had a breakdown or technical problems. This gun is very versatile, can be used as a mini-mine launcher for grenades (or illumination shells) and even anti-tank. It weighs about 7 kg. The magazine has 24 rounds, you usually get 4 magazines of 24 rounds each. The final acceleration of the GP11 cartridge is reached after 600 meters. Combat distance normally 100-200 meters, training distance 300 meters.
Almost makes you want to take up practice grenade golfing! Dale said in ine of the comments that they are regulated in Switzerland, even inert ones?
The inert grenades are just regulated as normal ammunition.
@@BlokeontheRange Makes sense. Otherwise anyone you met, especially children, would want to see if the object was real.
Thank you both
Excellent work on this video, and incredibly informative! I'm really looking forward to seeing part 2.
it could make out an interesting competition game with this
and the inert round hitting the steel target would sound excellent
Also handy if the Swiss ever went to war against a naval power as it's a freaking torpedo! Good presentation, Dale clearly has done his research and comes over really well, very informative.
The thing you see moving infront of the target at 25:56 is a person sitting back there with a stick and showing him where he hit.
The person is under the target, at ~ 3meters deep, this stick is the 5 points, that's mean the center of the target
passionnant. Merci
This presentation must be part of some kind of history science project. Very high quality work.
Wilfred Stokes invented what was to become the forerunner of the modern mortar in 1915 and went into service 1916/17. However he was an engineer not an entrepreneur and never patented the idea and Brandt stepped in and collared the design but he did call them the "stokes/Brandt" and over the years the Stokes got lost somewhere.
What is that light tank at 20:33? An old Belgian Char Léger de Reconnaissance Vickers-Carden-Loyd Mod.1934 T.15?
Edit: answered own question. It is the Panzerwagen 34/35 - Vickers Armstrong Light Tank Model 1934/35. Same family as the Belgian.
Thank you for presentations for grown ups who don't just say 'yee hah' when they see a gun......
Just watching those videos of soldiers very carefully firing those rifle grenades made me fear for fingers. Very interesting video, thanks!
I love this dude! Asian man, living in Europe(?) but has a pretty strong American accent and is a Swiss weapons expert! LOL... such is the world today. Awesome!
Just subbed his channel and looking forward to watching his videos after this one!
I remember my father coming home from army service when i was a little boy with a swollen right hand from pulling the trigger during firing a rifle-grenade.
in his next repetition-course the following year he bound a little piece of rope on the trigger and pulled it that way. no more injuries.. smile.
by the way.. in the Swiss Army the rifle grenade was called "Rungglä".. wich is the the swiss word for "Runkle Beet".. has nothing to do with "Carrots" besides the orange color.. smile..
My father was like "yeah those things were a whole lot of fun"
Great presentation. Looking forward to part 2
Wonderful presentation!!!
You are doing great work and research. Just a question tought as I wasn't trained on these : how were the operators supposed to aim ? Just by luck or they could still use the riffles aiming components ? Given the short distance and the curved trajectory this would be quite difficult to model trough an aiming system no ?
They get into aiming techniques in this video ruclips.net/video/l0HljMyid8k/видео.html
Very cool video and much appreciated. I always thought that rifle grenads were a awesome idea especially for defense. Just imagine a whole rifle platoon lying in ambush all armed with rifle grenades instead of maybe 6 guys with m203s that would be a huge fire power increase. but I never
knew of the complexities that comes with them. thanks again. 👍🇦🇺
Thank you, Mr Ding! Gotta say you’re a great presenter :)
Well done Dale. I agree with previous comments about a book. Get with Headstamp while there is interest. If Ian can make a success of a niche market with French military rifles so can you with the STG 57 and rifle grenades.
mmmm coffee. But I want to know where Buggs Bunny comes into the story
Nice presentation Dale.
Awesome! Can’t wait for part 2
Sweet memory of how the "Runkel" flew....
And it is pretty cool that that 200m AT gun have a toggle lock mechanism.
Excellent stuff chaps... One teeny observation; I think Stokes was the progenitor of the modern mortar, not Brandt, although there was probably a not inconsiderable amount of parallel development?
Being of an age to have experienced the ENERGA fired off the SLR and having been involved in the sporadic use of rifle grenades in UK service, I look forward to seeing the second half of this.. My own view of rifle grenades is that they had a worrying habit of falling into the hands of the least sensible member of whichever military grouping was involved, often with dire consequences!
One of the great issues with rifle grenades that I was dealing with is the bore safety and arming distance problem. As they are inherently short range weapons it follows that they need a short arming distance, otherwise they are useless in street fighting situations. On the other hand they are being fired by steely eyed, but generally unprotected infantryman, who might object to a bore or near bore premature..! The forces available to you in a rifle grenade for powering and unlocking safety features are not that great either. The ENERGA had a safety shroud blocking the path between the spit back fuze and the base detonator which was basically a variation on the mechanism used to work retractable ball point pens! It was SOP to shake an ENERGA before loading and if it rattled it meant that the safety shroud had fallen off and that you were now shaking an armed HEAT grenade!
@@DaletheStgwDude Agreed to both of your points, however there is now no safety arming distance and the chance of a muzzle prem is significantly increased..! I reserve my antipathy towards rifle grenades as they seem to emit a wisp of purple smoke whenever they appear! Jolly good fun though!
Another bit of ENERGA trivia for you... the tip of the impact fuze is made from tungsten as an anti bounce off measure! The window breaker of the early series Wheelbarrow EOD robot was made from recycled fuze tips.. It was a spring powered gizmo that smacked the tungsten tip against a car windscreen to smash it (..which it did!)
Thank you very much, this excellent quality content!
I've always been curious about these weapons, but everything I've seen was in Swiss German or French. This is a case where the K31 having a detachable magazine was really beneficial. They could keep a spare mag of grenade firing cartridges and the magazine was painted white to avoid confusion.
..the grenade blanks magazine was specifically made to be as it was, i.e; short length of a limited capacity, so the firer wouldn't risk breaking fingers when firing with the grenade trigger*, the steel colour just made the visual distinction much more obvious than feel & weight alone - minimizing errors in combat from fatigue, stress and other such human battlefield problems.
*sometimes called a winter trigger by those unknowing of its real function, as much of a really utilised 'propaganda' aspect by the Swiss to try and give some secret, hidden-ness of rifle grenades being so widespread for their forces, due to the fears of the times of the 1950's Cold-War of the Swiss about the Soviets.
I suggest you watch the Sturmghewr 57 episode with Dale if you haven't already, it is most informative and insightful.
I'm interested in those smocks/shelter halves at ~20:10 I would assume they are the shelter halves but they appear to have hoods.
They look like smocks, but I don't know what they are exactly, sorry.
@@BlokeontheRange I think it might be developmental camouflage leading up to Taz/Tass 57.
Oh... Well. Those monutes went by fast! Looking forwards to part 2/2.
And...more? ^^
The detail is unbelievable. The Swiss government historian society (if there is such a thing!) should employ you to public speak!
When are you continuing the series on the straight pull Swiss rifles???
awesome, hope to see a video in the future about collecting small arms is your country, keep up the good work.
26:40 ah walking fire, Othias approves, Ian says they should have chauchats...
Memories! Who did shot these ÜG? And the ÜRAK?
Morning. Appreciate the info. Going to catch some more Zs then watch this. Thanks
Idk why i love rifle grenades so much
My shoulder hurts just looking at these things....Really glad we didnt have to shoot these in combat lol..Our 40mm probably aren't as effective as these as far as explosive payload but I like my shoulder in the socket thank you very much lol
I can see this grenades being effective in urban areas..One things tanks struggle with till this day is urban combat. get up high on a building and let the tank roll through until its between you and the other building, fire straight down on them letting gravity help and were the armor was weak
@@DaletheStgwDude indeed, although perhaps he assumed the sholder firing troops in the trenches in the Swiss Mil' film are 'normal' operations..??
Or is being sympatheic to those soldiers that do have to shoulder fire them as the more emergency part of their training requirements compared to butt firing (pun not or is intended).
@@DaletheStgwDude Thanks for the reply Dale...This video is my first introduction to even hearing about this rifle. Seeing the history and it's intended use makes me wanna buy one...If I can even find one that is
Today we are issuing only tracer. The press is here and we need it to look good
Fascinating
ОК,but what would happen, if you accidentally put a ball through any of those grenades, wich aren't equipped with bullet traps. Would it damage the rifle?
It would probably just blow up in your face killing you instantly. Imagine all the propellant, gunpowder, and cartridge all going off at once all of a foot from your face.
Thank you BLOKE AND DALE for a very complete PE 57 report. Every one Bitches about a 12 pound rifle but it is a light machinegun not as rifle. It is a lot lighter than a BAR or a BREN. I fear though you did not find the Epitome of Swiss Anal retentive engineering. Check out the steel BB on a peg cast into the bottom of the Aluminum BI POD LEGS so they would not wear down when fired off concrete. You took the easy way out by not removing the locking rollers. With the 2 Jesus springs on top (as in Christ where will I find another one of those). The reassembly instructions calls for 2 dabs of Petroleum jelly to hold the roller wedges still. The PE57 offered a small bent oval with a slot on the end for $5.00 to hold up the chamber loaded indicator. At the time it seemed like $5.00 should have bought a hundred of them. When the PE 57 was on sale in the US a 25 round clip would have cost $25.00 to fill. You could have bought a nice Nazi P 38 for the cost of 2 mags full of Norma 7.5 Swiss the only ammo available then. No one ever asks but I much prefer shooting my PE57 to my SIG AMT.
Good content. I never knew how they worked.
Outstanding !
Xcellent!
Are there two 'modes' of firing rifle grenades ? Is one a 'high angle', like a mortar, with anti-personal fragmentation munitions, and the other anti-tank at a low angle ? Is the anti-tank grenade only fired at one distance ? or is there a sight with different ranges marked on it ?
Answers are in the videos
@@BlokeontheRange Thanks ! I jumped the gun there ! After I did my comment I found those bits ! I should have 'held my fire !"👍
Bloke and Dale, out of curiosity, why were some of the videos outlining the use of the rifle grenade in Italian? I would understand promotional or training materials made in either French or German. Did Italy use this system as well?
Almost Anything Italian is the 3rd official language of Switzerland. Ticino is an Italian speaking canton and neighbouring Graubunden has both Italian and German. There is also Rumansch which is a sort of curious mix of all three and latin.
Very interesting stuff!
Excellent presentation which clearly has a lot of work put into both research and presentation. I had no idea the Swiss made such extensive use of rifle grenades and it is interesting to learn how they solved a problem facing both of the neutral statex as their AT weapons could not keep up with wartime developments. Here in Sweden the emergency solution was to copy the panzerfaust which ended up in Swedish hands thanks to the Finns ”misplacing” some of theirs. (Swedish infantry used improved Panzerfausts into the 1960s) Post war the m/48 Carl Gustav RCL was developed and it in turn meant that the Swedish army never took an interest in rifle grenades.
The coolest part were the newsreels in the different cantonal languages. The Canton Ticino version gave me a short moment of cognitive dissonance ....
Great content.
It seems, in the end, that the Swiss should have focused in a great battle rifle and a crew served recoiless rifle separately. Make every fourth man an antitank gunner. Would have made this weapon way more successful, considering how good it did as an automatic rifle.
I wonder why Dale decided to study Swiss rocket powered exploding carrots of doom in such detail?
I wonder if he can get in contact with Ian so his knowledge can be added to the Forgotten Weapons archive.
Rifle grenades seem even more dynamic when spoken about in Italian...
What is the rifle shown in 23:55?
@@DaletheStgwDude Thanks a lot!
Gotta be close. Tanks can engage you at ranges beyond your capability. Hoping you can hide until close is a gutsy move and tanks come in groups just looking for guys like you if their infantry hasn't got to you first.
Où pourrais-je trouver la version française de cette présentation ?
26:49 yeah, those are swiss alright... iron sight, at that range with every shots? Like damn, from the tracer... his shot is pretty much dead on, so is the follow up...
It's not very far at all, even to the furthest figures by the looks of it.
@@BlokeontheRange Agreed, but even with well made AR-15 and good modern optic sight available I rarely see people able to make that kind of shot that quickly especially with the follow up...
give perhaps a second or two longer between shots and perhaps there'll be more ppl in the range that can do it, but most definitely can't do it that fast.
@@IonoTheFanatics
This is not meant to be hostile to the people you see around you or their army, but this thought came to mind:
That's what the aircraft are for.
OGIVE.
The shooter calls it OGIVE.
The target calls it OSHIT.
Nearly all 5.56 NATO service rifles have a 22mm flash hider for compatibility with one particular brand of bullet trap grenade manufacturd by Mecar. So yes you probably could stuff one over the muzzle of a 416.
Oh, you could, but I'm not sure the pins and the holes they go into to assemble the upper to the lower would thank you very much for it!
@@BlokeontheRange The British Army used them on the L85A1 prior to the HK A2 program and the UGL. No one was very impressed with them to be fair. The South Africans love the things though. Both all steel rifles though.
Indeed. And the L85's assembly pins interface with steel blocks rather than with mere aluminium ;)
@@BlokeontheRange Strangely a plastic lower would probably fair better. If only you knew someone who is working on one...
@0:00 holy... Today that would leave soldiers crying and later suing the state for their PTSD that they received during the military training.
Those things are freaking mortar rounds haha
Interesting comparrision to Sweden which went all in on recoilless rifles smilliarly to how the Swiss doubbled down on rifle grenades.
@@DaletheStgwDude An interesting thing I thought of when you talked about how hollow charges worked and how sensitive they are to spin. The first heat/hollow charge for the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle did just straight up engage with the rifling spinning the thing as a normal rifle projectile. That was of course found out to drastically reduce the effectiveness of the heat charge. So they redesigned they heat projectile to have an outer girdle engaging the rifling and spinning around the payload giving gyroscopic stabillization while still allowing the payload to not spin. This unfortunately lead to lower velocity for the heat round giving it a much different trajectory from the smoke and HE rounds leading to the need of different sight settings for different rounds.