I wanted cycling as a "cheap sport". $200 bike for ages. Later $70 shoe and pedal set. Later $150 lights set. No clothing yet. Enjoying the experience.
Cycling Industry is so whacked out I don't even look or care anymore. After 4 decades of cycling they basically fired me as a customer because I would just feel stupid spending 10-15k on a pedal bike. Lastly since the enforced change to disc brakes I kinda lost interest anyway. Not only are they ugly but their heavier & just a hassle.
* they're, and you're wrong; they aren't ugly or a hassle. Heavier than what? If you're worried about the tiny mass difference of a disc brake system over a rim brake one, then compensate by losing mass from your body, and carry fewer pies on your ride.
@@petergibson7287 they are ugly, absolutely ugly af....nobody in their right mind would think otherwise, new bikes, all black, all the time, the frames, the whole thing is ugly. The huge cassette, the tubes, the strange size and shape and location of the tubes. There is nothing cool about all this. The industry can't even figure themselves out with changes coming all the time. Why? To make money. Flat out. If you think otherwise, good for you. Let me guess, you are relatively new to cycling.
Most people still riding with rim brakes, are some of the biggest cheap skates. If they weren't, they would have up-graded by now. And not only do they not spend their money, they are also a very small group. Believe me, if there was any money to be made by catering to this group, the market would be all over them. Money is what drives the decision making in the undustry, not some kind of irrational hatred for rim brakes.
@@boldcord7947 You are seeing it already. Its not going to be from Shimano or sram or Main stream bike designers. Its going to be from China. If there is a market someone will fill it.
It’s hilarious watching the big cycling channels just now address the issue of insanely priced, heavy disc brake bikes and the suffering bike market. I hate to see companies fail, but I love to see them going through periods of correction.
Is there a big brand out there with enough cojones to rerelease a simple high performance, lightweight yet affordable rim braked model? Not expecting it anytime soon, they've gone balls deep on disc.
@@roadcyclist1 good for you. I'll take a classic rim brake bike all day every day. They work just about as well, are easy to work on, look 1000x better. Modern bikes are ugly af.
Here in india, cycling is associated with the labour class. They(dutch cycles) rarely ever get stolen here because the value is negligible. But things are changing fast. The hype is setting in and prices are climbing. The indian weather is not exactly ideal for cycling which makes the price hikes even more ridiculous. Most are going to buy them to look cool and are going to blow their lungs in the first few months and eventually abandom them.
Even the second hand market in many instances is a joke. Joker companies like "The Pros Closet" laughably trying to sell a 19+ pound used with 6 month warranty remaining $10K monstrosity joker road bike for $8-9K and calling it a "bargain." LOL 🙂
Finding rim brake parts is easier than working on the new stuff. Preach it Harley. Cycling industry has turned this way due to greed and fleecing society. The lunacy of one piece carbon cockpits where it costs $800 to make a stem length change. Press fit, when after 10 years of screwing the public, the industry is returning to BSA and now T47 because they can charge more for a new threaded oversize standard that is no better than a $30 BSA Shimano BB aka threaded cups. Dumb people are easily suckered and what the bike industry and car industry which includes hybrids and EV's 'bank' on.
Hi I am an anthropologist and this is such a clear sign of just a push for the one world culture attitude. The auto industry has made it difficult to even check your own oil! without a Master's degree; it is a form of social control; same what they're doing to the bike industry. They want it impossible for you to work on your own bike. You are forced to go to the car dealer and now you are forced to go to the bike shop, very sad. Like the older cars and older bikes; they just have character. the newer bikes, in my opinion have no character at all. I think you just want a bike to go ride in nature and enjoy the beautiful autonomy that riding a bike gives. Anyway, it's sad what's going
I don't agree; why force people to go to a bike shop, when bike shops are dying and the public insists on buying online? It's in the bike companies interest to make maintenance achievable by fools.
Yes it is. It is killing it and has killed it. Rarely see young people out on road bikes in my area of prime riding, if you see a rider in the distance you can 99% guarantee it'll be some boomer, it's almost a shock when you do see a young person out on a bike just enjoying their riding for what it is. There's a storm coming for local bike shops and bike brands if they can't reverse the dwindling customer base. We used to cobble together high performance bikes on a shoestring as kids, learnt how to build and fix them. No wonder theres little interest when a 4k bike with 105 weighs 9 kilos or so, what dogs to ride man.
What's your definition of young? My area is about the same. I do see a few guys below 30s or early 30s. But majority is ...well MAMILs like myself @41. I wish I started cycling at my mid20s but didn't have the cash back then.
Teens/20’s/30’s- I started riding at 15 and have been riding continuously since then, am 48 now. I feel like a younger rider in my area, though things are starting to ache a bit now…
So many people want to get into cycling but don't want t pay over 1k for a bike. If rim brake steel bikes were in production and not marked up to kingdom-come, I'm sure a lot of people would jump on the opportunity. Unfortunately, the overly complex bikes with ridiculous price tags built for pros is really keeping people away. Sure, there are 'city bikes' and 'hybrid bikes', but a lot of people want a cheap reliable drop bar road bike.
@@toriwangjanim4886 Yeah, when I was young, a very very long time ago... I and all my mates would source a good second hand frame, probably from some older dude in the club, and find the best kit we could put on it- groupsets were simple and tended to be well made as those older gen riders wouldn't tolerate anything less. If we needed a wheel but couldn't afford it we sourced the parts and learnt how to build it ourselves. It was possible to build a nice bike for not much outlay that would not hold the rider back in a group or at a race. I liked those times but they seem long gone and its a shame. As a plus though, none of the group of riders I grew up with have moved over to discs which amuses me a lot as most of them can have anything they want.. but they don't want the new stuff! I feel like the counterculture- we used to ride early mtb's up huge mountains in the snow with rim brakes and no suspension so why would we need discs on road bike? For the time being its still possible to buy really nice rim braked frames and source parts to build the preferred type of bicycle, I hope in the future some maker steps up to fill the void in new availability of this type of bike.
Yeah I rarely see young people my age riding and I ride 15-20hrs per week. It's all boomers and dentists or the odd 400€ kit + 10k bike stylish hipsters. I'm not surprised people aren't getting into the sport. My steel frame with 105, aliexpress rims and exposed cables is a dream to ride and maintain. The parts are so cheap I always laugh to myself when friends talk about getting new bikes or upgrades. 3k€ wheelset? Sure mate. 7k€ bike that weighs 7,8kg? LFG haha. I hit 5 w/kg FTP this year thanks to being carbed up always and it just makes it all the more sweet when I smoke them on my cheapo setup. Also means I won't have to hear their yapping about how stuff is 3 watts faster at 40kph or whatever. Yeah mate you haven't hit that speed on the flat since your 20s and your position is so upright those bikes they ride in the netherlands are more aero than your 15k€ pinarello dogshite 🤣
I'm with ya brotha literally don't need any of that expensive shit i'm keeping my rimbrake domane 4.5 till it melts into the damn ground lol there is literally nothing component wise that is worth a 16 to 20k price tag on any bike so silly
It’s not just bikes, it’s everything. Anyone here into watches? Anyone here into motorcycles? Etc etc etc. what about groceries? It’s not uncommon for my wife and I to spend over $300 aud a week for food.
Is that true though? Apparently its cheaper to ship say a TV from China to Felixstowe Docks (uk) than it is from the docks to a UK. A 65" TV would occupy the same size box as a bike.
@@blackjackpinoko Bullshit! If a brand new Kawasaki Ninja 650 can be built in Japan, shipped to the US and retail for $7,000 brand new out the door including title and registration don't feed me your BS that shipping costs or any other figment of your imagination even remotely explains the moronic nosebleed prices of much of the nonpowered bicycle market. These bicycles have exponentially LESS serious tech, manufacturing and shipping costs in them than any decent respectable entry level powered motorbike on the planet. That is reality whether delusional clowns want to admit it or not. 🙂
it still is, buy your bicycle and its free transport, i've saved close to £1000s over the last few years riding to work, its hard in winter but I see it as exercise and keeping vs sitting in a car for hours a week
You make some great points here. For me there has been too much emphasis on the very best bikes. They are incredible, but what seems to be neglected is good quality, reliable entry level. There is too much garbage. I’m not sure a return to rim brakes is ever going to happen though.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here...but someone needs to define "best." I think we're on the same page. To me, "best" means strong, reliable & simple. I wish I had a dollar for the amount of "true cyclists" who I don't know, that have made snide comments about my hand-built, 32-spoke wheels with DT Swiss RR511 rims, Ultegra hubs and DT Swiss butted spokes. Sure, they're "heavy," but I had them built for strength and to stay true, not to impress others. While nice to look at and appreciate, I have no interest in spending $2000 to $3000 on a pair of wheels. Cycling has turned into a who-has-spent-the-most-money sport.
@@christopherharmon9336 oh easy. The best is the very pinnacle of engineering. Like what a Lamborghini is to cars in general for example. The most reliable, might be a Toyota, but I don’t think anyone would call it the very best car a human has ever conceived.
I remember back in the day (before the MTB became popular) you could buy a decent drop bar road bike at an independent shop at an affordable price. The prices are really getting out of hand. It’s because the companies no longer sell the lifestyle, they sell the tech. Unfortunately the new bike tech isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. Give me a well tuned 105 or ultegra any day of the week.
Great video. I wish more people were saying this. Whenever someone asks me about buying a bike I say "DO NOT BUY A NEW BIKE!". We reached peak bike years ago. All the best bikes have already been made. Rim brakes all the way! Full internal cable routing?...Fuck no!
Was talking to someone the other day about this. The aero gains improve every year so to keep up you are forced to keep upgrading our TT bike. Gonna miss out on a lot of talented young cyclists who don't have lawyer Dads to kit them out every season with crazy priced bikes.
Those gains arent going to matter until they are long into the sport. A "talented" cyclist will crush the opps deep into the ranks before the bike matters
I totally agree with you 100% the industry is destroying its self with greed more greed and still more greed they are catering for the Dentist the Banker the IT specialist with more Dollars than brains ,buy good secondhand good wheels and rim brakes all for under $ 1000,and you can win races on that Bike I Have.
Although not to the same degree, I agree with the premise of this video. Five years ago a solid Ultra DI2 bike was around $5k. Now, electronic 105 is over $7k. That's why I love me some direct to buyer, Canyon. I asked a Trek dealer recently if the high end race bikes were selling; nope. They had a $12k Madone on display. That and the rip off clothing. The entire industry shot itself in the foot. Thanks for the video.
My triple butted alloy 2015/16 rimbrake 😉 road bike has internal cables, with the tool it's still very hard for maintenance. If I knew earleir i would've searched for external cables. I widened one of the cable holes with a drill to fit in the Jagwire internal cable magnet tool. Since then, people have been focusing on showing off their expensive bikes and the majority are definitely doping to justify their presence.
The exact same phenomenon happened with dirt bikes 30 years ago. It’s an order of magnitude more expensive than it was. That industry is thriving due to upper middle class wealth, but it’s changed the demographics and it’s no longer an Everyman sport
I am also fed up with the RIDICULOUSLY OVER-PRICED, HEAVY and LIFELESS new carbon frames with crap disc brakes and house wheels and other house components on most of the big-brand bikes. So, this past Fall, instead of wasting US$8,000 to US$10,000 on a new bike, I decided to buy a US$700 used, 22-year-old, USA-made, aluminum CAAD 5 frameset (classic Saeco cherry red livery -- gorgeous). I built it with top-shelf components: mechanical 11-speed Campag Record groupset (including the Campag carbon crankset), Campag Bora Ultra 35mm wheels, Alanera integrated stem/handlebars, Ceramic Speed BB bearings, titanium quick-release skewers. The bike weights under 14 pounds, 8 ounces (without pedals) and performs the way Cannondale crit bikes used to perform before Cannondale self-vandalized their once storied reputation as a cycling innovator. I am thrilled with the performance and look of the new build, and I paid US$4,500 (that includes labor) for the whole set up instead of US$10,000 for the latest disc-brake, over-priced, lifeless carbon bike.
This is the way to do it. My bike dreams are now about finding prime examples of top frames from 10-20 years ago rather than getting excited about what mainstream brands are offering. One day I will find an immaculate Colnago C50 get it fully pimped as above, and that should see me out. Don't need disc brakes.
I personally learned maintaining my own bike since I bought my first rim break road bike and it is massive for me to ride and maintain it by my own I feel that I'm attached with my bike and is more than a bike for me, but only rich kid can buy those trash disc breaks and they'll not be able maintain it on their own unless they pay for a mechanic who doesn't want to maintain their bike too.
True enough that 10-15 year old racebikes are great, but not many such high end bikes for sale everywhere, at least where I live, and many people think their bikes are made of gold even if 10 years old, so not exactly cheap either.
ebay has piles and piles of mint roadbikes. they're not dirt cheap but they are way cheaper than $10K insanity. I bought a mint Cervelo R3 a couple of months ago under $1000. I used to have one I bought new in the early 2000s that I paid at least $5000 for but crashed and wrecked. Shipping was $150, so it's not total bargain bin prices, but still not too hard to find something pretty good.
Been riding bikes since I was 5 but having truly fallen in love with cycling about six months ago at the age of 30 (used an old mountain bike for the past 10 years) I decided to get a road bike and simply found prohibitive prices all around. Ended up getting one used for 400€ that goes for 600€ new and people call it cheap lol the looks I get from people all geared up are absolutely priceless but I love it honestly, I ride about 350km every month and have lost 25 kilos with it alone since June, all with some shorts and a shirt. But still ended up shelling 300€ more for simple equipment recently, helmet, gloves, lights, padded shorts and some winter wear as it gets quite cold here and I don't ride trails with this bike so I'm often around cars. The prices for gear are absolutely insane. Each time I look at some of it I think that it absolutely shouldn't cost anywhere near that. When I had to change a tire, I couldn't do it on this particular bike for some reason and the shop asked 20€ for them to change it. I just find myself wondering what the hell happened to cycling all around, it felt so different growing up. Everyone cycled with whatever they had, now unless you look ready for the tour you get side eyed haha I think it's not a coincidence that I'm seeing a ton of people picking up running as of late as an alternative.
Its just like the Golf industry, all hype, Marketing bullshit, selling you the latest high tech crap you gotta have, last years shit is no good!!! Durian rider is the man! Im a 250 lb meat eating ape, still ride my 80's steel bikes(with uprades over the years).....bought them 40yrs ago, still going strong!
Maybe Durian should start his own cycling brand?? Would be good as we see that you love honesty over money. So markups would be fair and quality would be insane for the price..
He did, when he was selling the Pragmas. Full carbon gravel frameset, I've put over 15,000km thrashed off-road miles on mine and it's still going strong. Paid £500 for it new via Harley's contacts. IYKYK
Not sure if you've got Decathlon in Oz but they still do great value bikes. Also as you're well aware some great bargains to be had online whether it's ebay, market place or the aliexpres.
@@leenieledejo6849 Yes, I know leenie, its just that at 70, most of us become foolish, & some of us relinquish our grasp on constraint totally & give way to warped humour, that isn't always apparent to the uninitiated. What immediately leaped to mind was when back in the day, Dolly Parton was asked what kinds of music they had in Texas, she replied, "Oh, we got both kinds, Country aaaand Western". Perhaps I have been watching way too much PBR lately.
So true. I rode a 1999 Cannondale CAAD4 frame with Campy Daytona components, including rim brakes, for years. Never a problem maintaining it. The bike was a rocket…right up to the point it was stolen by a juvenile delinquent.
Rider > Bike. Always and forever. You can't buy speed. Period. Go and look at the average speeds by all the cyclists in major races, classics and tours from the 90s to now. Some are faster some are slower. Overall the speeds have relatively all things considered stayed THE SAME. Lance's 2005 tour is still the 2nd fastest tour of all time. that's almost 20 years ago. Don't EVER pay full price for a new carbon bike. Don't ever think you can't win because your bike is 15 years old carbon. Don't buy into it. Just like swimming and running: it starts and ends with you.
As an American I agree with pretty much everything you say. For a variety of reasons, I took about a 20 year hiatus from cycling. I'm just getting back into it, and MY GOODNESS; I don't recognize the landscape! I haven't bought any new bikes though. It's not that I have anything against new bikes; they're just excessive and expensive for what I do. Plus, they don't really satisfy my needs; they don't offer what I want in a bike. SO! I had my bikes refurbished, and I bought two nice used ones from the LBS, which I also had them refurbish. My fleet consists of two road bikes and two mountain bikes. The oldest member of my stable is a Marukin M-420 road bike that I purchased brand new in June of 1986 when I got out of the US Navy. It's made of Ishiwata 025 ChroMo, has 27" wheels, a Suntour ARx groupset, and downtube shifters. I've had it refurbished twice over the years, and did a couple of upgrades too. When I had it overhauled the first time about 20 years ago, my then LBS put nice, aluminum rims on it, and he put on a 7 speed cassette in lieu of the 6 speed cassette it came with new; the overall gear ratios are the same, but I have one more step. The second road bike is a vintage Cannondale ST500 that my LBS took in trade. It has a Shimano 600 groupset, 27" wheels, presta valves, and hard mounted downtube shifters. It's a lovely deep, dark blue metallic color. Because the mechanic/owner is too small to ride it, it was just hanging there. I asked if I could give it a home, and he said yeah. He refurbished the bike for me, and now, I'm enjoying it. That bike is a HOOT to ride! My third bike, an MTB, is a 1999 Raleigh M30 rigid I bought new from my old LBS. I bought it to give mountain biking a try. It came with an Altus/Acera groupset when new. Though I did some challenging riding on it, I'm now content to stick to the street, bike paths, canal trails, and the occasional, inviting grassy meadow. I had the LBS refurbish and upgrade it earlier this year. The main thing I wanted to do was get a crank with removable chainrings. It has a 3x7 drivetrain, that works for me. I wanted to fit Continental Town & Country tires to it, but the LBS told me they were discontinued. He suggested Continental Contact Plus City tires, saying they were the closest, modern equivalent to the old T&Cs. I like the new rubber, and it suits my riding style. That is to say that I've set it up more as an ATB. As for brakes, all my bikes have rim brakes on them. I'm sure you knew that after having been in the business as long as you have, but I thought I'd just say that. Guess I'll never have to worry about finding parts for them, huh? Rim brakes work perfectly fine. I can see why someone on a downhill MTB would want disc brakes, but for many people, they're overkill. I can lock my rear wheels with the rim brakes I already have. Why do I need more than that? Finally, my LBS took in an old Fuji Nevada 4.0 hardtail in trade. I liked it, so I bought it and had the LBS refurbish that too; I basically had them spec it out like my M30 rigid. It's a second ATB. I told myself that i got it, so my brother will have something to ride when he visits. Truthfully, I got it because I liked it, and the LBS was offering it for a fair price. Oh, and where I live, a well known LBS recently closed; the owner was old, so he retired after being a local fixture for decades. Trek bought the shop, and they turned it into a company store. I visited it a couple of months ago, and I didn't like it very much. I much prefer my family owned LBS that's been in business since the 1960s. Anyway, I think that there are two things going on here. One is that riders aren't really honest with themselves; they're not honest about how they normally ride, nor are they honest about what bike(s) will fulfill their mission requirements. Two, the industry is hung up on offering all these expensive bikes. On the one hand, I get why they do it. Like the SUVs of the car companies, I don't reckon that the expensive bikes cost that much more to produce than a more basic bike; however, the more expensive bike offers a fatter profit margin. Though online shops I suppose have their place, I prefer doing business with the LBS. One, my LBS is GREAT! The mechanic/owner is a good guy who's really helpful. Two, his riding philosophy is similar to mine, so he understands my appetites. Three, if I buy a bike, I like to do a fit check first; I want to be sure it fits me before going any farther. When I bought the two used bikes from the LBS, I was able to try them on first; when they fit, I was like, let's do it! Four, because he's a good guy, I want to do my part to help support him and keep him around. I think that, if the industry wants to do well again, they need to offer more affordable, more basic bikes that are better suited to us mere mortals. Instead of these funky and trendy 1x12 drivetrains, go with what works; go with a tried and true 3x7 or 3x8 instead. There's a reason 3x7 and 3x8 drivetrains have been around for decades: they JUST WORK! Offer more bikes with aluminum and steel frames. WTF does anyone besides a pro need a carbon fiber frame? And so on. Because the bike industry doesn't offer anything I like, I much prefer buying an older bike that's more my style (not to mention suits my needs better), then have the LBS refurbish/overhaul it for me. Even after all that, I'm out less $$ than I would be for a brand new bike, and I have something that I WANT and like! I have something suited to me and the riding I do. Oh, and they ALL have rim brakes! Rim brakes work perfectly fine for me. Those are my humble and rambling thoughts...
Steel Stumpy in 1994 with a future shock was $1150.00. That's about $2500.00 in today's dollars. My rigid KHS comp with LX was $700.00 that same year. It's never been a cheap hobby.
My ride is a 1970s era Astro frame with other used and new parts built by Recycle-a-Bike here in NYC. Built by high school kids learning the trade of bicycle mechanics. I payed $250 in 1998. Put 50 miles of commuting a week on it in NYC traffic between 2003-2018; I did long rides as well, and used it to produce segments for a local cable show and make short documentaries. Except for arthritis I would still be riding it!! Again, payed $250 for a custom built bike!! A great deal!! No need to pay big bucks for a daily ride!!! Mike
Hey Durianrider, I got 3 bikes, 2 Ultegra's 2x10 (Cannondale CAAD-10 2012 Ultegra, Canyon Endurace 2014 Ultegra, Trek 1500 2003 Ultegra). The old Trek is my winterbike. All bikes have rimbrakes. Ultegra is just perfect. Don't need anything else. 11-12 speed is - in my opinion - just a hype. 9-10 speed is more than enough for a "tourist-biker". I'm enjoying cycling that's all what matters.
I have often thought about the rapid escalation of price and complexity of the latest models. When I started riding there was a plateau of price and complexity, once you were there you simply needed spare wheels / tyres etc to ride in pretty much any level of racing. Now I think about the wall of cost and technical bambozelry that young riders have to face just to get started. How does a young person from a normal income family going to get started? It's a problem.
Bikes have become status. It's jacked up. I never judge a group rider by the kind of bike they have. I used to years ago when i was starting out. i'd think greater priced bike = greater rider. Not true. Often times, it's those mid 30 guys who have their same bike from when they were in their 20's who KILL it.
Basically yes, came back to cycling in 2020 after a 25yr break and had a heart attack when I entered bike shop here in Singapore and saw a sweet looking Cervelo for SGD 18k (basically the same in AUD). I quickly realised I was heading to the used market because even though I have money I couldnt bring myself to parting with that much dough just for a friggen bike. Anyway found a used Trek Madone H2 (I think 2017/18 model??) running 105 and upgraded the wheels to Hyper 50mm with DR 10% discount (thanks buddy). Was in Adelaide last week with the bike and was an awesome vibe with the TDU going on. Headed up Norton summit ran into Phil Anderson (80's cycling legend) which was a treat and had a bit of a chat then up to Lofty when I saw Harley coming the other way (recognised the green Vegan top and Natasha sporting full pink get up 👍) exchanged short gday (best you can with someone coming downhill at 50+kmph 😝) Love my rim brake Trek I think it tips the scales around 7.3kg with everything on it 👍.
I bought a 23 trek emonda alr5 , besides the tires ,it's a bike that works great .good old 105 group set . At 54 year old newbie i can roll pretty good lol ,and I still have some money in my pocket lol
I get so irritated when a bike shop tries to sell me on how easy it is to work on disc brakes just to get me to buy what they have in stock. I have to completely shut them down like look, if it has disc brakes, i wont spend my money. I did it one time and got disc rub like every 10 miles, had to take it to the shop because no adjustment worked, then they fixed it just enough to get it to ride another 10 miles before the rub happened again. i cant do it.
@@bulbangsi used "i" so many times in the paragraph. Do i not have the right to say MY complaints, with MY bikes with disc brakes? Your experiences dictate your reality. Theres nothing in there where im telling people that my truth is THE truth. But i still have the right to spend my money how i see fit. Its kinda dumb that i even have to say that
Yeah its a fuckin nightmare to get into cycling now. You're spot on with all your points. The outright cost to start cycling is fried. Bike, Power Meter, Clothing, Shoes, Glasses, Helmet, Turbo Trainer and all the other shit that comes with it like muc-off cleaning shit, tools to repair etc. It used to be a sport for lower class people who enjoyed getting out of the cities now its designed for Londoners. 15k £ for the latest s works? Fuckin bullshit. I remember buying a specialized sl3 frame for 150£. The quality hasnt changed at all. Marketing bullshit
disc brakes or rim brake , you should be able to chose either , not be told what to purchase. LBH manufacturers have worked out there is more profit in disc brakes , electronic gearing , one piece cockpit set ups etc - so have gone down that path. There should be room for both brake types. I have 6 sets of rim brake wheels , if no one makes rim brake bikes . am I suppose to bin all my wheels? ridiculous. As they say greed eventually corrupts everything. The older bikes were crafted by frame builders , they were works of art , now everything is mass constructed by factories in the middle east, for companies who have lost touch with the needs of the consumer.
100% Correct! The sad thing is the bike manufacturers don't care (it's all about the profits) & the media is promoting these overpriced wonder bikes because of the advertising dollars. Thankfully there is the secondary market & sometimes another manufacturer steps in to make good replacement parts. Rim brakes work perfectly fine, mechanical shifting works perfectly fine, why spend more money for more complication?
The new bikes have saved me a lot of money. I've had my current bike for almost 10 years now because, like you said, the new stuff gives me ED. Bikes all look the same these days, which is another drawback in addition to the extra weight.
I look at Microshift Advent X and Microshift Sword, both cable/cable groupsets and wonder if SRAM & Shimano are missing the boat. There is too much emphasis on electronic shifting, hydraulic brakes and the upscale market. Not everyone has $1700+ laying around for a groupset, or can afford $3500+ for a new bike. To be fair, even people who can afford a $3500+ bike may choose to NOT spend that much on a bike.
I always wished that I had started cycling when I was in my teens, but when I think about it there is no ways I would be able to even buy a bicycle as a teenager
I'm envious of your bike. I'd pay a few k for a "normal" bike. I want a steel frame. 12 gear. No electric changing. Rim brakes.Well actually I have one .From the 80s. But I'd take a newer version. I could afford a 15k bike but I've got better things to do with the money.
@@jeffreyfeitler2909 none of those significantly alter the riding experience like they do on a mountain bike. Pro road racers still debate about preferring rim brakes and carbon and titanium bikes have been around for 35+ years.
@@stonewp so disc brakes, blue tooth, carbon frame don’t alter road bike performance as much as MTB ? I ride road and MTB and find huge difference for both disciplines. But maybe not for you. But hey. My point was responding to a post trying to suggest Walmart bicycles are the way to go. a Walmart bike sold for a few hundred dollars compared to a top of the line bike selling for 10K is no comparison. I agree bike prices have spiked in price over the past 5 years and I too wish they would lower and hopefully they will. And getting back to the original post.
@@jeffreyfeitler2909 I mean you could get a mid-tier road bike from 2004 and a mid-tier road bike from 2024 and you would get a nearly identical performance and experience. My road bike from the mid 2000’s was carbon and they’ve been around since the 80’s. A similar mountain bike from 2004 is almost unrecognizable to one from 2024.
G'day Harley, I have finally succumbed and bought myself a disc brake bike. Lol They are much more complicated but I have managed to build a Chinese frame with lightweight carbon parts which has cost me $5500. The funny thing is that it weighs 6.3kg including pedals, powermeter, cages etc. I took the new bike to Adelaide last week and it felt good knowing that my bike was 1/3 of the price of many other bikes and didn't get the attention of many of thet 1 kilo heavier than the big brands. lol Also, I briefly saw you at the top of Nortons a few days ago but unfortunately didn't get a chance to show you the bike. lol If you are prepared to fck around, it is now possible to build a lightweight disc brake bike for a reasonable price.
Spot on again :) I've used Campagnolo since 2000 and I own and run record 10-speed, super record 11-speed and record 12-speed record groups, mechanical rim brake of course. All the group sets were relatively expensive new, can't argue with that. However, they all were very simple to set up and are virtually maintenance, some for over 10-years now (just look after the chains). It's also no myth that they get smoother and better with age, yes they do 'ride in'. The quality and finish is extremely high, especially the 10-speed, still perfect and in my opinion gorgeous to look at. The new 12-speed group may have the longevity, time will tell on that. However, it looks hideous! The complexity and weight of disc and electronic shifting makes little sense to me, except, perhaps, as an excuse to charge (pun intended) huge amounts, even by Campagnolo standards. If though you want a 'cheaper looking', ugly, higher maintenance, groupset, with less performance than a product they produced over 10-years ago, OK, but don't try convince me it's an upgrade on what it replaced!
my issue is, UCI and bike companies promoting high-end bikes primarily. When the midrange bikes aren't midrange price anymore and the consumers' mentailities change to "if im going to spend that much, mind as well get the high-end." It is despicable, I used to love Specialized Allez, great bike but its damn expensive for a starter road bike lol
Of course. The industry keeps trying to think up new (and unnecessary) tech to then attempts to enforce it upon us with stupid marketing and/or reducing buying options. Bike mags and channels like GCN just add to all the BS. I bought a Scott Foil Orica team edition with Di2 back in 2014. It came with Zipp 303s. I picked that up for £1200 sterling. In near perfect condition. It is still my go to bike. It is a joy to ride and infinitely servicable.
Why all the disc brake hate lately? Just got a Trek Verve 2 with hydraulic disc and very happy with it. I live in a very mountainous area and really appreciate the effortless braking. I'm a boomer just riding for health these days, not trying to go fast. Good video.
Great Video, its just rational and logical thinking. Rim Brakes are the best, electronic shifting is a gimmick. I am riding a CAAD10 stock.If I want to be faster I have to exercise more and harder and have to take care of what I eat. Its really funny that these new overexpensive bikes are more heavy and slower than older bikes.
It's nothing but greed from local bike shops to the manufacturers! I was building a bike a few years ago, and at the time, the Sram carbon wheels had just come out. The local bike store didn't even have their prices set, I asked how much they cost, and he looked at the price sheet that they were buying the wheels for and he gave me a price of 1600.00 for the from and rear wheel! Well, he didn't know that I saw his price list, he paid 400.00 for the set and he marked it up to 1600.00! I immediately walked out of the shop! 400.00 for the set means that those wheels cost about 100.00 - 200.00! Same as top of the line bicycles that haven't sold, I've seen them ask for 8k, but a year or 2 later, they sell it for 3- 4k! They are totally shooting themselves in the foot with these ridiculous prices! Then you buy a bike and they have the nerve to charge you for pedals!
just bought a lapierre 9.9 pro race for £2k worth £6k, my 1st carbon bike sram axs and its unreal was looking at 2024 Treks 29er mtbs, the spec on new models is either overpriced or super overpriced, i've always bought last years model brand new for a bargain, deffo a buyers market its oot for me but it feels good to ride and for not much money, gonna have too look up how you index wireless gearing!
2008 Colnago CX-1 Carbon, Dura ace, Roval cl50 / Conti 5000. Build your own road bike without the technology hype. Unless you're pro or elite level, a badass rim brake horse will always out perform the rider.
So accurate I have both disc and rim bikes steel and carbon: hi mod old 80/90 colnagos and specialized(s) The expense and grief involved in getting the disc bikes even close to weight and performance of the the rim bikes is prohibitive.
Agreed Durian Rider, i reckon if you were a Brit youd probably be a Carrera Subway or a Voodoo Hybrid rider- avec panniers of course. Its not about the bike or Rapha/Le Col handbags😂
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
I wanted cycling as a "cheap sport". $200 bike for ages. Later $70 shoe and pedal set. Later $150 lights set. No clothing yet. Enjoying the experience.
Cycling Industry is so whacked out I don't even look or care anymore. After 4 decades of cycling they basically fired me as a customer because I would just feel stupid spending 10-15k on a pedal bike. Lastly since the enforced change to disc brakes I kinda lost interest anyway. Not only are they ugly but their heavier & just a hassle.
* they're, and you're wrong; they aren't ugly or a hassle. Heavier than what? If you're worried about the tiny mass difference of a disc brake system over a rim brake one, then compensate by losing mass from your body, and carry fewer pies on your ride.
they fired me as a customer as well
@@petergibson7287 😅 pretty funny answer considering you know nothing about me or my history in cycling. But enjoy your way 😉
@@petergibson7287 they are ugly, absolutely ugly af....nobody in their right mind would think otherwise, new bikes, all black, all the time, the frames, the whole thing is ugly. The huge cassette, the tubes, the strange size and shape and location of the tubes. There is nothing cool about all this. The industry can't even figure themselves out with changes coming all the time. Why? To make money. Flat out. If you think otherwise, good for you. Let me guess, you are relatively new to cycling.
Thanks to you I got into cycling and saved so much time and money. I also lost 17kg and got my cheerleader body back!
try hot yoga
@@rotyler2177 weak 🙂
Time for a start-up company to come in selling reasonably priced rim brake bikes to everybody that hates disk.
It will happen
i know of one! it's called shimano. 105.
Most people still riding with rim brakes, are some of the biggest cheap skates.
If they weren't, they would have up-graded by now.
And not only do they not spend their money, they are also a very small group.
Believe me, if there was any money to be made by catering to this group, the market would be all over them.
Money is what drives the decision making in the undustry, not some kind of irrational hatred for rim brakes.
It definitely won’t happen. Thats like going backwards. Yeah I know people love it but the shops don’t.
@@boldcord7947 You are seeing it already. Its not going to be from Shimano or sram or Main stream bike designers. Its going to be from China. If there is a market someone will fill it.
It’s hilarious watching the big cycling channels just now address the issue of insanely priced, heavy disc brake bikes and the suffering bike market.
I hate to see companies fail, but I love to see them going through periods of correction.
I watched a RUclips video the other day, and the person was calling a $7500 USD bike "mid-priced." Really?
@@christopherharmon9336 Maybe for them, thats top tier for me
Is there a big brand out there with enough cojones to rerelease a simple high performance, lightweight yet affordable rim braked model? Not expecting it anytime soon, they've gone balls deep on disc.
Disc is way better. I'll never go back to rim.
@@roadcyclist1 good for you. I'll take a classic rim brake bike all day every day. They work just about as well, are easy to work on, look 1000x better. Modern bikes are ugly af.
Here in india, cycling is associated with the labour class. They(dutch cycles) rarely ever get stolen here because the value is negligible. But things are changing fast. The hype is setting in and prices are climbing. The indian weather is not exactly ideal for cycling which makes the price hikes even more ridiculous. Most are going to buy them to look cool and are going to blow their lungs in the first few months and eventually abandom them.
Secondhand is the way to go! It's the training that makes you better!
100% bro
Even the second hand market in many instances is a joke. Joker companies like "The Pros Closet" laughably trying to sell a 19+ pound used with 6 month warranty remaining $10K monstrosity joker road bike for $8-9K and calling it a "bargain." LOL 🙂
Absolutely!
Absolute madness the prices today. I get more pleasure out of you're videos showing what good value is out there.
Thanks. Got a lovely 40 year old Nishiki steel frame with Shimano 600 groupset at an op shop in Morriset NSW for $40 just last Wednesday. It’s superb.
Finding rim brake parts is easier than working on the new stuff. Preach it Harley. Cycling industry has turned this way due to greed and fleecing society. The lunacy of one piece carbon cockpits where it costs $800 to make a stem length change. Press fit, when after 10 years of screwing the public, the industry is returning to BSA and now T47 because they can charge more for a new threaded oversize standard that is no better than a $30 BSA Shimano BB aka threaded cups.
Dumb people are easily suckered and what the bike industry and car industry which includes hybrids and EV's 'bank' on.
Hi I am an anthropologist and this is such a clear sign of just a push for the one world culture attitude. The auto industry has made it difficult to even check your own oil! without a Master's degree; it is a form of social control; same what they're doing to the bike industry. They want it impossible for you to work on your own bike. You are forced to go to the car dealer and now you are forced to go to the bike shop, very sad. Like the older cars and older bikes; they just have character. the newer bikes, in my opinion have no character at all. I think you just want a bike to go ride in nature and enjoy the beautiful autonomy that riding a bike gives.
Anyway, it's sad what's going
💯💯💯💯💯
I don't agree; why force people to go to a bike shop, when bike shops are dying and the public insists on buying online?
It's in the bike companies interest to make maintenance achievable by fools.
Yes it is. It is killing it and has killed it. Rarely see young people out on road bikes in my area of prime riding, if you see a rider in the distance you can 99% guarantee it'll be some boomer, it's almost a shock when you do see a young person out on a bike just enjoying their riding for what it is. There's a storm coming for local bike shops and bike brands if they can't reverse the dwindling customer base. We used to cobble together high performance bikes on a shoestring as kids, learnt how to build and fix them. No wonder theres little interest when a 4k bike with 105 weighs 9 kilos or so, what dogs to ride man.
What's your definition of young? My area is about the same. I do see a few guys below 30s or early 30s. But majority is ...well MAMILs like myself @41. I wish I started cycling at my mid20s but didn't have the cash back then.
Teens/20’s/30’s- I started riding at 15 and have been riding continuously since then, am 48 now. I feel like a younger rider in my area, though things are starting to ache a bit now…
So many people want to get into cycling but don't want t pay over 1k for a bike. If rim brake steel bikes were in production and not marked up to kingdom-come, I'm sure a lot of people would jump on the opportunity. Unfortunately, the overly complex bikes with ridiculous price tags built for pros is really keeping people away. Sure, there are 'city bikes' and 'hybrid bikes', but a lot of people want a cheap reliable drop bar road bike.
@@toriwangjanim4886 Yeah, when I was young, a very very long time ago... I and all my mates would source a good second hand frame, probably from some older dude in the club, and find the best kit we could put on it- groupsets were simple and tended to be well made as those older gen riders wouldn't tolerate anything less. If we needed a wheel but couldn't afford it we sourced the parts and learnt how to build it ourselves. It was possible to build a nice bike for not much outlay that would not hold the rider back in a group or at a race. I liked those times but they seem long gone and its a shame. As a plus though, none of the group of riders I grew up with have moved over to discs which amuses me a lot as most of them can have anything they want.. but they don't want the new stuff! I feel like the counterculture- we used to ride early mtb's up huge mountains in the snow with rim brakes and no suspension so why would we need discs on road bike? For the time being its still possible to buy really nice rim braked frames and source parts to build the preferred type of bicycle, I hope in the future some maker steps up to fill the void in new availability of this type of bike.
Yeah I rarely see young people my age riding and I ride 15-20hrs per week. It's all boomers and dentists or the odd 400€ kit + 10k bike stylish hipsters. I'm not surprised people aren't getting into the sport. My steel frame with 105, aliexpress rims and exposed cables is a dream to ride and maintain. The parts are so cheap I always laugh to myself when friends talk about getting new bikes or upgrades. 3k€ wheelset? Sure mate. 7k€ bike that weighs 7,8kg? LFG haha. I hit 5 w/kg FTP this year thanks to being carbed up always and it just makes it all the more sweet when I smoke them on my cheapo setup. Also means I won't have to hear their yapping about how stuff is 3 watts faster at 40kph or whatever. Yeah mate you haven't hit that speed on the flat since your 20s and your position is so upright those bikes they ride in the netherlands are more aero than your 15k€ pinarello dogshite 🤣
I'm with ya brotha literally don't need any of that expensive shit i'm keeping my rimbrake domane 4.5 till it melts into the damn ground lol there is literally nothing component wise that is worth a 16 to 20k price tag on any bike so silly
It’s not just bikes, it’s everything. Anyone here into watches? Anyone here into motorcycles? Etc etc etc.
what about groceries?
It’s not uncommon for my wife and I to spend over $300 aud a week for food.
Yup just going to keep riding my Cadd 12 rim.
same
They say you don't need the top of the line bike, but their high prices drag up the prices of all models.
production cost of top high end frame is around 400 bucks. I was told that by someone who worked for one of the most popular bike brands.
Shipping costs a lot.
Is that true though? Apparently its cheaper to ship say a TV from China to Felixstowe Docks (uk) than it is from the docks to a UK.
A 65" TV would occupy the same size box as a bike.
@@blackjackpinoko Bullshit! If a brand new Kawasaki Ninja 650 can be built in Japan, shipped to the US and retail for $7,000 brand new out the door including title and registration don't feed me your BS that shipping costs or any other figment of your imagination even remotely explains the moronic nosebleed prices of much of the nonpowered bicycle market. These bicycles have exponentially LESS serious tech, manufacturing and shipping costs in them than any decent respectable entry level powered motorbike on the planet. That is reality whether delusional clowns want to admit it or not. 🙂
@@blackjackpinoko nonsense
Cycling used to be a sport for the working class, now it is for rich businessmen.
In,W.A.I'm,seeing,hordes,of,the,professional,class,on,the,latest,&,greatest,riding,wheel,to,wheel,with,an,inch,separating,them,&,blocking,the,whole,bike,path,at,10-15,kph,on,the,flat.
About,a,month,ago,I,was,watching,a,truly,obese,&,soft,chap,on,his,Willier,seriously,struggling,up,a,50,metre,7%,rise,in,very,much,the,wrong,gear,&,looking,so,ridiculous,covered,in,sponsorship,lycra.I,couldn't,resist,the,tempation,to,urge,him,to,pedal,harder.
Spot on. Maybe we the insiders should not complain after all… haha
Dentist bike as he put it.
it still is, buy your bicycle and its free transport, i've saved close to £1000s over the last few years riding to work, its hard in winter but I see it as exercise and keeping vs sitting in a car for hours a week
The coal miner's son sport
You make some great points here. For me there has been too much emphasis on the very best bikes. They are incredible, but what seems to be neglected is good quality, reliable entry level. There is too much garbage. I’m not sure a return to rim brakes is ever going to happen though.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here...but someone needs to define "best." I think we're on the same page. To me, "best" means strong, reliable & simple. I wish I had a dollar for the amount of "true cyclists" who I don't know, that have made snide comments about my hand-built, 32-spoke wheels with DT Swiss RR511 rims, Ultegra hubs and DT Swiss butted spokes. Sure, they're "heavy," but I had them built for strength and to stay true, not to impress others. While nice to look at and appreciate, I have no interest in spending $2000 to $3000 on a pair of wheels. Cycling has turned into a who-has-spent-the-most-money sport.
@@christopherharmon9336 oh easy. The best is the very pinnacle of engineering. Like what a Lamborghini is to cars in general for example. The most reliable, might be a Toyota, but I don’t think anyone would call it the very best car a human has ever conceived.
Got back into cycling after buying an old mountain bike at a summer fete for £12 here in England. Was able to be ridden away!
I remember back in the day (before the MTB became popular) you could buy a decent drop bar road bike at an independent shop at an affordable price. The prices are really getting out of hand. It’s because the companies no longer sell the lifestyle, they sell the tech. Unfortunately the new bike tech isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. Give me a well tuned 105 or ultegra any day of the week.
The dont sell the tech....they just sell the brand these days
Walmart released a group set😂😂😂....you look like Lance back in the day when dancing on the Pedals...that dancing never gets old
Great video. I wish more people were saying this. Whenever someone asks me about buying a bike I say "DO NOT BUY A NEW BIKE!". We reached peak bike years ago. All the best bikes have already been made. Rim brakes all the way! Full internal cable routing?...Fuck no!
Mechanical group sets and rim brakes. Don’t want or need the latest technology BS. I refuse to pay these crazy prices.
Was talking to someone the other day about this. The aero gains improve every year so to keep up you are forced to keep upgrading our TT bike. Gonna miss out on a lot of talented young cyclists who don't have lawyer Dads to kit them out every season with crazy priced bikes.
Those gains arent going to matter until they are long into the sport. A "talented" cyclist will crush the opps deep into the ranks before the bike matters
@@the_fast_life totally disagree. Look at the hour record. The new aero TT bikes are many km/h faster than a traditional bike.
Good to see you enjoying the Campagnolo. I'm running Record 11 speed mechanical and rim brakes on alloy Fulcrums on a 2011 Pinarello Paris.
Crazy that bicycles can be more expensive than motorcycles. And no peddling required!
I totally agree with you though. Now you can pick up the old-school stuff cheap!
Love your informative and honest posts. Keep them coming bro ❤
RBC will never be obsolete
I totally agree with you 100% the industry is destroying its self with greed more greed and still more greed they are catering for the Dentist the Banker the IT specialist with more Dollars than brains ,buy good secondhand good wheels and rim brakes all for under $ 1000,and you can win races on that Bike I Have.
Although not to the same degree, I agree with the premise of this video. Five years ago a solid Ultra DI2 bike was around $5k. Now, electronic 105 is over $7k. That's why I love me some direct to buyer, Canyon. I asked a Trek dealer recently if the high end race bikes were selling; nope. They had a $12k Madone on display. That and the rip off clothing. The entire industry shot itself in the foot. Thanks for the video.
My triple butted alloy 2015/16 rimbrake 😉 road bike has internal cables, with the tool it's still very hard for maintenance. If I knew earleir i would've searched for external cables. I widened one of the cable holes with a drill to fit in the Jagwire internal cable magnet tool. Since then, people have been focusing on showing off their expensive bikes and the majority are definitely doping to justify their presence.
My Giant Propel rim brake still going strong , plus have a lot of spare parts for another few years ! let's let them sink...
The exact same phenomenon happened with dirt bikes 30 years ago. It’s an order of magnitude more expensive than it was. That industry is thriving due to upper middle class wealth, but it’s changed the demographics and it’s no longer an Everyman sport
I am also fed up with the RIDICULOUSLY OVER-PRICED, HEAVY and LIFELESS new carbon frames with crap disc brakes and house wheels and other house components on most of the big-brand bikes. So, this past Fall, instead of wasting US$8,000 to US$10,000 on a new bike, I decided to buy a US$700 used, 22-year-old, USA-made, aluminum CAAD 5 frameset (classic Saeco cherry red livery -- gorgeous). I built it with top-shelf components: mechanical 11-speed Campag Record groupset (including the Campag carbon crankset), Campag Bora Ultra 35mm wheels, Alanera integrated stem/handlebars, Ceramic Speed BB bearings, titanium quick-release skewers. The bike weights under 14 pounds, 8 ounces (without pedals) and performs the way Cannondale crit bikes used to perform before Cannondale self-vandalized their once storied reputation as a cycling innovator. I am thrilled with the performance and look of the new build, and I paid US$4,500 (that includes labor) for the whole set up instead of US$10,000 for the latest disc-brake, over-priced, lifeless carbon bike.
This is the way to do it. My bike dreams are now about finding prime examples of top frames from 10-20 years ago rather than getting excited about what mainstream brands are offering. One day I will find an immaculate Colnago C50 get it fully pimped as above, and that should see me out. Don't need disc brakes.
I personally learned maintaining my own bike since I bought my first rim break road bike and it is massive for me to ride and maintain it by my own I feel that I'm attached with my bike and is more than a bike for me, but only rich kid can buy those trash disc breaks and they'll not be able maintain it on their own unless they pay for a mechanic who doesn't want to maintain their bike too.
Truth bombs!
like the phrase... 'rim brake life'. :)
True enough that 10-15 year old racebikes are great, but not many such high end bikes for sale everywhere, at least where I live, and many people think their bikes are made of gold even if 10 years old, so not exactly cheap either.
ebay has piles and piles of mint roadbikes. they're not dirt cheap but they are way cheaper than $10K insanity. I bought a mint Cervelo R3 a couple of months ago under $1000. I used to have one I bought new in the early 2000s that I paid at least $5000 for but crashed and wrecked. Shipping was $150, so it's not total bargain bin prices, but still not too hard to find something pretty good.
Great video bro! Man you look like Lance while climbing!
Supply and demand. If the bike companies can't sell bikes at the current prices, they'll start to come down.
Been riding bikes since I was 5 but having truly fallen in love with cycling about six months ago at the age of 30 (used an old mountain bike for the past 10 years) I decided to get a road bike and simply found prohibitive prices all around. Ended up getting one used for 400€ that goes for 600€ new and people call it cheap lol the looks I get from people all geared up are absolutely priceless but I love it honestly, I ride about 350km every month and have lost 25 kilos with it alone since June, all with some shorts and a shirt. But still ended up shelling 300€ more for simple equipment recently, helmet, gloves, lights, padded shorts and some winter wear as it gets quite cold here and I don't ride trails with this bike so I'm often around cars. The prices for gear are absolutely insane. Each time I look at some of it I think that it absolutely shouldn't cost anywhere near that. When I had to change a tire, I couldn't do it on this particular bike for some reason and the shop asked 20€ for them to change it. I just find myself wondering what the hell happened to cycling all around, it felt so different growing up. Everyone cycled with whatever they had, now unless you look ready for the tour you get side eyed haha I think it's not a coincidence that I'm seeing a ton of people picking up running as of late as an alternative.
Road bikes are one thing but MTB is even worse… MTB is all about wear and tear. They are selling an XC MTB as an innovation object. Unbelievable!
Right, as usual. God bless the rim brake and all who ride on her. Cheers from Mankyland, Uk!
Its just like the Golf industry, all hype, Marketing bullshit, selling you the latest high tech crap you gotta have, last years shit is no good!!! Durian rider is the man! Im a 250 lb meat eating ape, still ride my 80's steel bikes(with uprades over the years).....bought them 40yrs ago, still going strong!
It’s cheaper to buy a 450cc motocross bike than a new pedal bike . Somethings wrong somewhere . Prices are stupid … and some tri bars 3 grand 🙈
Maybe Durian should start his own cycling brand?? Would be good as we see that you love honesty over money. So markups would be fair and quality would be insane for the price..
He did, when he was selling the Pragmas. Full carbon gravel frameset, I've put over 15,000km thrashed off-road miles on mine and it's still going strong. Paid £500 for it new via Harley's contacts. IYKYK
Not sure if you've got Decathlon in Oz but they still do great value bikes. Also as you're well aware some great bargains to be had online whether it's ebay, market place or the aliexpres.
We,got,both,kinds.Decathlon,&,Triathlon.Neat,eh?
@@returnofthenative Decathlon is a shop in Europe. It's French and does every sport.
It's known for its bikes too cos it guarantees repairs in-store.
@@leenieledejo6849 Yes, I know leenie, its just that at 70, most of us become foolish, & some of us relinquish our grasp on constraint totally & give way to warped humour, that isn't always apparent to the uninitiated.
What immediately leaped to mind was when back in the day, Dolly Parton was asked what kinds of music they had in Texas, she replied, "Oh, we got both kinds, Country aaaand Western".
Perhaps I have been watching way too much PBR lately.
So true. I rode a 1999 Cannondale CAAD4 frame with Campy Daytona components, including rim brakes, for years. Never a problem maintaining it. The bike was a rocket…right up to the point it was stolen by a juvenile delinquent.
Always keeping it real thanks Harley
Rider > Bike. Always and forever. You can't buy speed. Period.
Go and look at the average speeds by all the cyclists in major races, classics and tours from the 90s to now. Some are faster some are slower. Overall the speeds have relatively all things considered stayed THE SAME. Lance's 2005 tour is still the 2nd fastest tour of all time. that's almost 20 years ago.
Don't EVER pay full price for a new carbon bike. Don't ever think you can't win because your bike is 15 years old carbon. Don't buy into it. Just like swimming and running: it starts and ends with you.
As an American I agree with pretty much everything you say. For a variety of reasons, I took about a 20 year hiatus from cycling. I'm just getting back into it, and MY GOODNESS; I don't recognize the landscape! I haven't bought any new bikes though. It's not that I have anything against new bikes; they're just excessive and expensive for what I do. Plus, they don't really satisfy my needs; they don't offer what I want in a bike. SO! I had my bikes refurbished, and I bought two nice used ones from the LBS, which I also had them refurbish.
My fleet consists of two road bikes and two mountain bikes. The oldest member of my stable is a Marukin M-420 road bike that I purchased brand new in June of 1986 when I got out of the US Navy. It's made of Ishiwata 025 ChroMo, has 27" wheels, a Suntour ARx groupset, and downtube shifters. I've had it refurbished twice over the years, and did a couple of upgrades too. When I had it overhauled the first time about 20 years ago, my then LBS put nice, aluminum rims on it, and he put on a 7 speed cassette in lieu of the 6 speed cassette it came with new; the overall gear ratios are the same, but I have one more step.
The second road bike is a vintage Cannondale ST500 that my LBS took in trade. It has a Shimano 600 groupset, 27" wheels, presta valves, and hard mounted downtube shifters. It's a lovely deep, dark blue metallic color. Because the mechanic/owner is too small to ride it, it was just hanging there. I asked if I could give it a home, and he said yeah. He refurbished the bike for me, and now, I'm enjoying it. That bike is a HOOT to ride!
My third bike, an MTB, is a 1999 Raleigh M30 rigid I bought new from my old LBS. I bought it to give mountain biking a try. It came with an Altus/Acera groupset when new. Though I did some challenging riding on it, I'm now content to stick to the street, bike paths, canal trails, and the occasional, inviting grassy meadow. I had the LBS refurbish and upgrade it earlier this year. The main thing I wanted to do was get a crank with removable chainrings. It has a 3x7 drivetrain, that works for me. I wanted to fit Continental Town & Country tires to it, but the LBS told me they were discontinued. He suggested Continental Contact Plus City tires, saying they were the closest, modern equivalent to the old T&Cs. I like the new rubber, and it suits my riding style. That is to say that I've set it up more as an ATB.
As for brakes, all my bikes have rim brakes on them. I'm sure you knew that after having been in the business as long as you have, but I thought I'd just say that. Guess I'll never have to worry about finding parts for them, huh? Rim brakes work perfectly fine. I can see why someone on a downhill MTB would want disc brakes, but for many people, they're overkill. I can lock my rear wheels with the rim brakes I already have. Why do I need more than that?
Finally, my LBS took in an old Fuji Nevada 4.0 hardtail in trade. I liked it, so I bought it and had the LBS refurbish that too; I basically had them spec it out like my M30 rigid. It's a second ATB. I told myself that i got it, so my brother will have something to ride when he visits. Truthfully, I got it because I liked it, and the LBS was offering it for a fair price.
Oh, and where I live, a well known LBS recently closed; the owner was old, so he retired after being a local fixture for decades. Trek bought the shop, and they turned it into a company store. I visited it a couple of months ago, and I didn't like it very much. I much prefer my family owned LBS that's been in business since the 1960s.
Anyway, I think that there are two things going on here. One is that riders aren't really honest with themselves; they're not honest about how they normally ride, nor are they honest about what bike(s) will fulfill their mission requirements. Two, the industry is hung up on offering all these expensive bikes. On the one hand, I get why they do it. Like the SUVs of the car companies, I don't reckon that the expensive bikes cost that much more to produce than a more basic bike; however, the more expensive bike offers a fatter profit margin.
Though online shops I suppose have their place, I prefer doing business with the LBS. One, my LBS is GREAT! The mechanic/owner is a good guy who's really helpful. Two, his riding philosophy is similar to mine, so he understands my appetites. Three, if I buy a bike, I like to do a fit check first; I want to be sure it fits me before going any farther. When I bought the two used bikes from the LBS, I was able to try them on first; when they fit, I was like, let's do it! Four, because he's a good guy, I want to do my part to help support him and keep him around.
I think that, if the industry wants to do well again, they need to offer more affordable, more basic bikes that are better suited to us mere mortals. Instead of these funky and trendy 1x12 drivetrains, go with what works; go with a tried and true 3x7 or 3x8 instead. There's a reason 3x7 and 3x8 drivetrains have been around for decades: they JUST WORK! Offer more bikes with aluminum and steel frames. WTF does anyone besides a pro need a carbon fiber frame? And so on. Because the bike industry doesn't offer anything I like, I much prefer buying an older bike that's more my style (not to mention suits my needs better), then have the LBS refurbish/overhaul it for me. Even after all that, I'm out less $$ than I would be for a brand new bike, and I have something that I WANT and like! I have something suited to me and the riding I do. Oh, and they ALL have rim brakes! Rim brakes work perfectly fine for me. Those are my humble and rambling thoughts...
Steel Stumpy in 1994 with a future shock was $1150.00. That's about $2500.00 in today's dollars. My rigid KHS comp with LX was $700.00 that same year. It's never been a cheap hobby.
My ride is a 1970s era Astro frame with other used and new parts built by Recycle-a-Bike here in NYC. Built by high school kids learning the trade of bicycle mechanics. I payed $250 in 1998. Put 50 miles of commuting a week on it in NYC traffic between 2003-2018; I did long rides as well, and used it to produce segments for a local cable show and make short documentaries. Except for arthritis I would still be riding it!! Again, payed $250 for a custom built bike!! A great deal!! No need to pay big bucks for a daily ride!!!
Mike
Hey Durianrider, I got 3 bikes, 2 Ultegra's 2x10 (Cannondale CAAD-10 2012 Ultegra, Canyon Endurace 2014 Ultegra, Trek 1500 2003 Ultegra). The old Trek is my winterbike. All bikes have rimbrakes. Ultegra is just perfect.
Don't need anything else.
11-12 speed is - in my opinion - just a hype. 9-10 speed is more than enough for a "tourist-biker".
I'm enjoying cycling that's all what matters.
I recently picked up a mid 90’s Bianchi steel frame gem for $165.00 the guy just wanted to get rid of it, ride is so smooth!
I have often thought about the rapid escalation of price and complexity of the latest models. When I started riding there was a plateau of price and complexity, once you were there you simply needed spare wheels / tyres etc to ride in pretty much any level of racing. Now I think about the wall of cost and technical bambozelry that young riders have to face just to get started. How does a young person from a normal income family going to get started? It's a problem.
Bikes have become status. It's jacked up. I never judge a group rider by the kind of bike they have. I used to years ago when i was starting out. i'd think greater priced bike = greater rider. Not true. Often times, it's those mid 30 guys who have their same bike from when they were in their 20's who KILL it.
MY FAVOURITE BIKE IS A 1973 NISHIKI INTERNATIONAL WITH SUNTOUR CYCLONE GROUPSET .
I just love steel road bikes from the 80s and 90s with Shimano 105, todays bikes are overpriced throw away frames!
It is a new golf things are selling .... retired dentist, lawyers with an ftp of 180watts are buying all of those
Basically yes, came back to cycling in 2020 after a 25yr break and had a heart attack when I entered bike shop here in Singapore and saw a sweet looking Cervelo for SGD 18k (basically the same in AUD). I quickly realised I was heading to the used market because even though I have money I couldnt bring myself to parting with that much dough just for a friggen bike. Anyway found a used Trek Madone H2 (I think 2017/18 model??) running 105 and upgraded the wheels to Hyper 50mm with DR 10% discount (thanks buddy). Was in Adelaide last week with the bike and was an awesome vibe with the TDU going on. Headed up Norton summit ran into Phil Anderson (80's cycling legend) which was a treat and had a bit of a chat then up to Lofty when I saw Harley coming the other way (recognised the green Vegan top and Natasha sporting full pink get up 👍) exchanged short gday (best you can with someone coming downhill at 50+kmph 😝) Love my rim brake Trek I think it tips the scales around 7.3kg with everything on it 👍.
My answer is : Yes 🤨. Prices out of control, out of reason , out of what avg cyclist can afford
I bought a 23 trek emonda alr5 , besides the tires ,it's a bike that works great .good old 105 group set . At 54 year old newbie i can roll pretty good lol ,and I still have some money in my pocket lol
I get so irritated when a bike shop tries to sell me on how easy it is to work on disc brakes just to get me to buy what they have in stock. I have to completely shut them down like look, if it has disc brakes, i wont spend my money. I did it one time and got disc rub like every 10 miles, had to take it to the shop because no adjustment worked, then they fixed it just enough to get it to ride another 10 miles before the rub happened again. i cant do it.
sure bruh because your isolated case happens to EVERYBODY on discs LMFAO
@@bulbangsi used "i" so many times in the paragraph. Do i not have the right to say MY complaints, with MY bikes with disc brakes? Your experiences dictate your reality. Theres nothing in there where im telling people that my truth is THE truth. But i still have the right to spend my money how i see fit. Its kinda dumb that i even have to say that
Yeah its a fuckin nightmare to get into cycling now. You're spot on with all your points.
The outright cost to start cycling is fried.
Bike, Power Meter, Clothing, Shoes, Glasses, Helmet, Turbo Trainer and all the other shit that comes with it like muc-off cleaning shit, tools to repair etc.
It used to be a sport for lower class people who enjoyed getting out of the cities now its designed for Londoners. 15k £ for the latest s works? Fuckin bullshit. I remember buying a specialized sl3 frame for 150£. The quality hasnt changed at all. Marketing bullshit
disc brakes or rim brake , you should be able to chose either , not be told what to purchase. LBH manufacturers have worked out there is more profit in disc brakes , electronic gearing , one piece cockpit set ups etc - so have gone down that path. There should be room for both brake types. I have 6 sets of rim brake wheels , if no one makes rim brake bikes . am I suppose to bin all my wheels? ridiculous.
As they say greed eventually corrupts everything.
The older bikes were crafted by frame builders , they were works of art , now everything is mass constructed by factories in the middle east, for companies who have lost touch with the needs of the consumer.
100% Correct! The sad thing is the bike manufacturers don't care (it's all about the profits) & the media is promoting these overpriced wonder bikes because of the advertising dollars. Thankfully there is the secondary market & sometimes another manufacturer steps in to make good replacement parts. Rim brakes work perfectly fine, mechanical shifting works perfectly fine, why spend more money for more complication?
Everyone thinking they need to live the life of a king is ruining cycling and everything else.
Yep rim brakes are easy and reliable Harley cheers from Oz 🇦🇺
Of course it is.
The new bikes have saved me a lot of money. I've had my current bike for almost 10 years now because, like you said, the new stuff gives me ED. Bikes all look the same these days, which is another drawback in addition to the extra weight.
I look at Microshift Advent X and Microshift Sword, both cable/cable groupsets and wonder if SRAM & Shimano are missing the boat. There is too much emphasis on electronic shifting, hydraulic brakes and the upscale market. Not everyone has $1700+ laying around for a groupset, or can afford $3500+ for a new bike. To be fair, even people who can afford a $3500+ bike may choose to NOT spend that much on a bike.
I always wished that I had started cycling when I was in my teens, but when I think about it there is no ways I would be able to even buy a bicycle as a teenager
The budget trail/enduro bikes and e-bikes are about on par with motocross bike prices, actually many bicycles are more costly..
I have a CAAD 10 with Record 10 speed Red, only 600 sets made, shifts better than Dura-Ace 11 speed Di2, mechanical Record is telepathic.
i never buy brand new for branded. all came from hunting used bike and it work. got cheap same feeling, same function
man,. you are so funny, would love to go out riding with you mate. Keep it coming!
I'm envious of your bike. I'd pay a few k for a "normal" bike. I want a steel frame. 12 gear. No electric changing. Rim brakes.Well actually I have one .From the 80s. But I'd take a newer version. I could afford a 15k bike but I've got better things to do with the money.
Amen brother!
Road bikes don’t have all the advancements of mountain bikes. A 20 year old road bike works just as well as a brand new one.
Wrong. Disc brakes, blue tooth, carbon fiber or titanium. That is just the basic improvements.
@@jeffreyfeitler2909 none of those significantly alter the riding experience like they do on a mountain bike. Pro road racers still debate about preferring rim brakes and carbon and titanium bikes have been around for 35+ years.
@@stonewp so disc brakes, blue tooth, carbon frame don’t alter road bike performance as much as MTB ? I ride road and MTB and find huge difference for both disciplines. But maybe not for you. But hey. My point was responding to a post trying to suggest Walmart bicycles are the way to go. a Walmart bike sold for a few hundred dollars compared to a top of the line bike selling for 10K is no comparison. I agree bike prices have spiked in price over the past 5 years and I too wish they would lower and hopefully they will. And getting back to the original post.
@@jeffreyfeitler2909 I mean you could get a mid-tier road bike from 2004 and a mid-tier road bike from 2024 and you would get a nearly identical performance and experience. My road bike from the mid 2000’s was carbon and they’ve been around since the 80’s. A similar mountain bike from 2004 is almost unrecognizable to one from 2024.
@@stonewp - I’m glad for you. Ride on. Should I check out the Walmart Bikes?
As a cycling enthusiast, I appreciate the beautiful landscapes you captured! 🚵♀️ How do you stay motivated during long rides
G'day Harley, I have finally succumbed and bought myself a disc brake bike. Lol They are much more complicated but I have managed to build a Chinese frame with lightweight carbon parts which has cost me $5500. The funny thing is that it weighs 6.3kg including pedals, powermeter, cages etc. I took the new bike to Adelaide last week and it felt good knowing that my bike was 1/3 of the price of many other bikes and didn't get the attention of many of thet 1 kilo heavier than the big brands. lol Also, I briefly saw you at the top of Nortons a few days ago but unfortunately didn't get a chance to show you the bike. lol If you are prepared to fck around, it is now possible to build a lightweight disc brake bike for a reasonable price.
Spot on again :)
I've used Campagnolo since 2000 and I own and run record 10-speed, super record 11-speed and record 12-speed record groups, mechanical rim brake of course. All the group sets were relatively expensive new, can't argue with that. However, they all were very simple to set up and are virtually maintenance, some for over 10-years now (just look after the chains). It's also no myth that they get smoother and better with age, yes they do 'ride in'. The quality and finish is extremely high, especially the 10-speed, still perfect and in my opinion gorgeous to look at.
The new 12-speed group may have the longevity, time will tell on that. However, it looks hideous! The complexity and weight of disc and electronic shifting makes little sense to me, except, perhaps, as an excuse to charge (pun intended) huge amounts, even by Campagnolo standards. If though you want a 'cheaper looking', ugly, higher maintenance, groupset, with less performance than a product they produced over 10-years ago, OK, but don't try convince me it's an upgrade on what it replaced!
my issue is, UCI and bike companies promoting high-end bikes primarily. When the midrange bikes aren't midrange price anymore and the consumers' mentailities change to "if im going to spend that much, mind as well get the high-end." It is despicable, I used to love Specialized Allez, great bike but its damn expensive for a starter road bike lol
Of course. The industry keeps trying to think up new (and unnecessary) tech to then attempts to enforce it upon us with stupid marketing and/or reducing buying options. Bike mags and channels like GCN just add to all the BS. I bought a Scott Foil Orica team edition with Di2 back in 2014. It came with Zipp 303s. I picked that up for £1200 sterling. In near perfect condition. It is still my go to bike. It is a joy to ride and infinitely servicable.
Why all the disc brake hate lately? Just got a Trek Verve 2 with hydraulic disc and very happy with it. I live in a very mountainous area and really appreciate the effortless braking. I'm a boomer just riding for health these days, not trying to go fast. Good video.
Disc for mountain bikes NOT tt or road race. 💯✅
durianrider, are you tryna show off ur newly acquired muscles again? ; )
Great Video, its just rational and logical thinking.
Rim Brakes are the best, electronic shifting is a gimmick.
I am riding a CAAD10 stock.If I want to be faster I have to exercise more and harder and have to take care of what I eat. Its really funny that these new overexpensive bikes are more heavy and slower than older bikes.
Seat height looks a bit low. But if it works for you then its all good.
It's nothing but greed from local bike shops to the manufacturers! I was building a bike a few years ago, and at the time, the Sram carbon wheels had just come out. The local bike store didn't even have their prices set, I asked how much they cost, and he looked at the price sheet that they were buying the wheels for and he gave me a price of 1600.00 for the from and rear wheel! Well, he didn't know that I saw his price list, he paid 400.00 for the set and he marked it up to 1600.00! I immediately walked out of the shop! 400.00 for the set means that those wheels cost about 100.00 - 200.00! Same as top of the line bicycles that haven't sold, I've seen them ask for 8k, but a year or 2 later, they sell it for 3- 4k! They are totally shooting themselves in the foot with these ridiculous prices! Then you buy a bike and they have the nerve to charge you for pedals!
Would I buy one of these disc brake heavy bikes , hell no. discs are a nightmare.
Exactly! I bought my bike during covid 2021 and its all mechanical.
just bought a lapierre 9.9 pro race for £2k worth £6k, my 1st carbon bike sram axs and its unreal was looking at 2024 Treks 29er mtbs, the spec on new models is either overpriced or super overpriced, i've always bought last years model brand new for a bargain, deffo a buyers market
its oot for me but it feels good to ride and for not much money, gonna have too look up how you index wireless gearing!
It's the rider, not the bike!
Amazing video.
2008 Colnago CX-1 Carbon, Dura ace, Roval cl50 / Conti 5000. Build your own road bike without the technology hype. Unless you're pro or elite level, a badass rim brake horse will always out perform the rider.
So accurate I have both disc and rim bikes steel and carbon: hi mod old 80/90 colnagos and specialized(s)
The expense and grief involved in getting the disc bikes even close to weight and performance of the the rim bikes is prohibitive.
All the major bicycle companies offer a range of models/prices. The buyer makes the decision to select a $10k model.
Yes if the shoe fits , get more people on bikes with prices lower = sell more bikes which is better overall , same with shoes really.
Agreed Durian Rider, i reckon if you were a Brit youd probably be a Carrera Subway or a Voodoo Hybrid rider- avec panniers of course. Its not about the bike or Rapha/Le Col handbags😂