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I hate movies that can’t even tell a story. It’s like they get halfway through their story and they say “I’m not smart enough to finish this, let’s call it interpretive art” What a waste of time
The butterfly landing on the girl’s hand is the soul of her murdered friend. She was in shock after being stabbed in the throat but was able to revive long enough to try and rescue her friend. In the end Barnes also dies after being able to escape. The performances were great but this is a MOVIE I don’t enjoy endings where everyone dies & the audience is left trying to figure it out.
Which ending you think is "true" says more about you than it does the movie. I don't think either ending is true and both are true and everything in between.
that is a male reaction - women as conditioned to be 'nice' and if you submit/not confront you are more likely to survive. The whole thing is that the minute he starts being a dick and they start feeling uncomfortable they stay because they are being polite not to make him worse - they don't demand to be let out. They ask. It is Barnes pushing back that pushes him. The mention of how John Smith started the Mormons was to control women.
You're absolutely right! (I thought it was just me who was thinking that. 🙂) The minute they couldn't get out, they should have pointed out to Mr. Reed that he has destroyed his credibility because he has already lied to them about his wife. If he can't open the door then they should pry it off it's hinges or, as you said, smash open a window and reach out so they can make a call. Going deeper into the house is just ridiculous. Of course, it's also ridiculous for them them to go into any house without (a) first calling their church to let them know exactly where they are at and (b) carrying industrial strength mace.
In addition to Paxton admitting to her disbelief in prayer, she also explained she wished to reincarnate as a butterfly. Reincarnation is against Mormon beliefs, so her offering to choose the door of disbelief was on-brand as she's demonstrated a few times that she isn't a genuine believer
Interesting, not an oversight since both the actresses are former Mormons! But I don't know if i'd say Paxton isn't genuine, I think she's a true survivor and the disbelief door was trying to keep Mr Reeeeeed happy, the fact she prayed in the face of the final danger in the basement and until her passing, would make me think she was actually a true believer. and IF you think the first ending is true, then she is a believer AND a chosen enough for a miracle to happen to save her. But it's up for debate!
I agree that the heretic in Heretic was Paxton. But also, there is also this thing among some Mormons where they say they will come back and give a sign. It's not reincarnation. It may be LIKE reincarnation. It's not an official Mormon doctrine by any means, but it's a thing I heard growing up LDS here and there. There's a song called I'll Build You A Rainbow that was popular in the 80s with Mormons, where a boy's dead mother presents herself as a rainbow so he knows she is still present. But with that said, Paxton is still the Heretic in the movie.
As a former Mormon, that line did strike me as unfamiliar when it came to what we were told and taught to repeat throughout life. Reincarnation is not learned and that small foreshadowing of her still finding her own personal set of beliefs was a interesting turn.
I don't think the metaphor of Dante's Inferno is being discussed enough. I felt as if the entire house represented the inferno, as they climb deeper and deeper down, each circle feeling more and more hopeless, and Paxton eventually returning to the top/heaven by way of her faith. Curious to hear more connections between the house and the inferno.
I agree except I wonder if she has found herself at the bottom circle of hell at the end given she descended down to it and the cold/snow, rather than heaven. Dante climbed up to get out of hell.
You didn't mention the phone at the end when she climbs out of the window. It still said no service when she drops it outside, while they had service outside before going into the home. I think she never left and she's hallucinating/dying.
She's also still bleeding to death. I don't think she patched herself up or anything and she doesn't find help. She can just suddenly move around like normal again.
My argument for that theory would be that, sometimes, a phone's signal will not reconnect immediately after leaving a location that would disrupt its connection. It could take either a few seconds or a couple of minutes for it to even get a bar of signal (that's also depending on the location, service, and phone model, of course), and the camera at the end focuses on the phone for about 8 seconds before she picks it up, and I would say that her phone does get at least a bar in the very next shot. But then again, that's just my interpretation.
I thought Paxton was great. When I was a teenager I went to youth groups and there was always a couple of girls with that vibe; extremely meek, smiley, and generous and VERY smart. People mistake kindness for weakness and I love that they played that up in this. Chloe East was so believable.
When Sister Barnes talked about her history with Taco Bell, she said, "When I was dead, I saw exactly what your prophet described. A blinding white light, clouds, but not Heaven, a sense of wanting to return, a feeling that my state of reality wasn't real.", which exactly describes the ending scene with Sister Paxton; A blinding white light in the background, a cloud of snow on the ground, her sense of wanting to go back home(escaping the house), and her feeling that her state of reality wasn't real(disappearance of butterfly). So, I believe the true ending was truly what happened. But, I do love how we all have our own interpretation on the same matter.
Thats the beauty of the ending. Everything logical points towards her death but there is enough room of interpretation that you can choose to believe otherwise.
I need to shout out that shot of the model house where you can see Paxton navigating it in real time and as she gets to the room of the model hose the camera pans to her entering it. Just really cool direction and cinematography.
I’m just loving Hue Grant’s Renaissance. From romantic leading man to quirky character actor who remains at the height of his powers. Some argue that he’s even better now than he’s ever been. His range has certainly surprised me, since he seems capable of doing anything. More power to him.
@@thekeyboardess1150 : Never saw The Gentlemen, but I did see trailers and few YT clips. His, “mockney,” cockney accent was the most entertaining bit in each clip. He seems to be revelling in every role, like, “I’ve done the mega-star thing, got all the money I’ll ever need, learned a few life lessons and now I don’t have to try. I’m just going to do what I think has artistic merit, or take roles that promise me a damned good time.” And you can tell when an artist is enjoying themselves. I watched several interviews with the cast of the Dungeons and Dragons movie. There are several around on RUclips. And it’s just so impressive, the way all the other actors (some of them bigger stars than he is now) defer to him. He’s so funny and charming in real life, it seems. His wit is certainly un-fakeable (yes, I made up a word. Arrest me) and spontaneous, and the rapport he has with colleagues is actually sweet to behold. It’s like everything’s a bit of a giggle for him now and he’s just having a ball. But the talent he has is that his revelry is contagious, in a way that makes you feel invited to the party, so you can’t help but have a ball with him. I’m getting to the point where his name alone is sufficient for me to check out a movie. On that note, would you recommend The Gentlemen?
Maybe someday it will come out he's not the person you seem to think he is. He was in a relationship with Elizabeth Hurley after all. Who is apparently a name on the "the island" visitors.
Well, if we're to believe that the butterfly is actually the soul of her friend then it wouldn't matter what the weather was like surely because it's not really a butterfly? (not that I believe she was alive in the end, just saying if you want to believe the magical religious ending)
I think that the good ending is likely for the reason that the even bigger reveal than Mr. Reed not believing in religion is that Paxton isn't a literalist. Her explanation of the prayer experiment aligns with the theme of absolute certainty in either direction being absurd, and that she is making the conscious choice to believe. The butterfly appears and disappears to show that she is aware it isn't there, but chooses to see it anyway as a representative of Barnes.
I really like this. I could also see the butterfly disappearing because Paxton is being revived. The exit from the house is her last moments of consciousness, and her brain starts to make a beautiful picture. but her phone is connecting and as soon as it gets signal, which they had outside the house, it will connect and the messages they left and texts they sent will go through, alerting the elders to where they are. You could see the disappearance of the butterfly as her brain ceasing to paint this insane picture as she dies, the silence as her brain coming back on line, and the credits rolling not as her death but as her being yanked back into reality. Just a take.
Not to mention the butterfly at the end again but in addition to the butterfly disappearing, it got deadly quiet suddenly. No outside noise anymore and she acknowledges it. Credits. This seems to me that she died in that moment. Meaning she went through all of that just to die post escape. She did escape. And I think in the moment of adrenaline crash allowed her body to give up and she died once she knew she was free. Tragic but beautiful.
See I thought she died too, but when the Mr. Reed crawled up to her, I think that’s when it happened. I think she imagined Sister Barnes saving her and her escaping, but it didn’t actually happen. i think that was her reincarnating as that butterfly
I agree that she made it outside before she died. The snow is often referenced as her own mental pre-death concoction representing heaven and clouds, but I don’t think she’d have known that it had begun to snow earlier. The snow didn’t start to fall until after they were already trapped in the house, so not sure she’d have known about it (remember it was only raining when they’d arrived). I may be missing something - maybe there was a point where she saw the snow outside through a window or something - otherwise the snow would not have been a likely thing for her to concoct, and therefore she was seeing it for real.
I saw the movie this weekend and thought the ending was a mixture of the two. I believed there was a "miracle" that led to her escape, but when she was free, she was dying and saw the butterfly, which served as her own personal confirmation. The way I understood the movie is summed up through the doors of belief and disbelief. Whether you believe or not doesn't matter. All paths lead to the same place - an unknown to those who haven't crossed over themselves.
I have read so many of these comments, and they are brilliant! The movie clearly wanted people to discuss it, and they were very successful. There are so many different perspectives that I never even thought about! Thank you for posting and than everyone else for commenting! This movie was fantastic.
My take on the ending is similar to the film makers take. We choose what we believe and that makes it our reality. That's why paxton brings up the prayer experiment. It doesnt matter that "it doesnt work" what matters is how it makes you feel and that colors your view of the world. Notice how mr. Reed was very knowledgeable but he wasnt very happy/satisfied. Paxton looked like she found peace. We choose what we see at the end
Not really. Happiness is just a temporal thing. The main themes of the movie (according to me at least) is obsession, knowledge and faith. A triune problem (pun intended). You see all of the characters are deeply flawed when it comes to their consistency, wich comes through in their dialogue. Non really holds up to scrutiny when it comes to their beliefs. The movie shows as much. There's so much to unpack I really have to rewatch the entire movie again (oh goody, and actual psychological thriller/horror that works and has levels) but in essence I'm going to stick to the main antagonist. He's clearly an intellectual and has an obsessive need to know what is true. He hasn't been able to figure out if any of the religions are true at all but has this incessant need to keep testing for it. Because it's a question without an answer. It's an itch he can't scratch. He's obsessed with finding out the truth. But there's really only one way to get to that truth. An inevitability. The end of the road. Game over. Death. Only in death can he find out wich one was the right religion (as can we all) so the question remains unanswered. And this bothers him. His quest remains unfulfilled. And yet there's a need to find an answer to a question that has non. Obsession takes over. He wants to know the right path to take. But doesn't. After years and years of studying in depth the thing he needs what he really lacks is faith. He can't commit to anything, because his mind won't let him. What if it's the wrong one. How can we know wich is the right one?. And so the spiral continues and he lost his mind in the process. But can't let go because he needs to know before it's too late. He's essentially a man ruled by fear. He needs certainty and no religion actually gives certainty. Even in his misguided conclusion he is factually inconsequent to himself. As he remains searching endlessly repeatedly trying to push the envelope to no avail. Yet he hasn't given up, and won't. In that respect the girls have him dead to rights. Everyone needs something to believe in. Even if its not going to lead to an actual answer everyone is still searching. So is mister Reed until his last breath. He's hoping to solve the riddle that has taken his sanity and is now effectively ruling his life. He can't let it go. Because he has to know the unknowable about the unknown. Lest he die before solving the equation. When in the last scene he sobs when she's praying he's actually still hoping for a miracle. Because deep down he really does want something to happen, anything. To find a reason to believe in something or see a sign of gods existence. When that doesn't happen yet again, he get's frustrated and angry at yet another flawed attempt to appeal to this higher authority that clearly hasn't come to aid. As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself. And was about to prove yet again his mastery over her fate was bigger then any gods. This was also the point of these others in the boxes. It's an allegory within an allegory within a paradox. As they are all probably different denominations of religions (boxes) non can escape. Het they lead nowhere and non actually get saved from his power over them. Religion=control and he's controlling multiple religious people stuck within their seperate boxes. All hopeless and unable to change whatever fate he has planned out for them. God's aren't coming to their aid. But what he wants more then anything is for one to do so. His desperation is palpable. He's tormenting them yes. But not just out of the pleasure for it. He's trying to push endlessly to prove himself wrong. Wich is the irony of it all. A man who desperately wants to know if god exists, but hasn't the conviction or faith necessary to believe in one. He is also controlled by the exact same things he is trying to put onto any of his victims. Fear of the unknown. Scared to look into the abyss. As there's but one way to know. And that's still open for debate as non has ever returned to tell anyone if they are right or wrong. Hence the experiment. He knows it's a trick but they don't. So he does gain insight into what they believe happened. Because he has no belief himself. And unfortunately that experiment can be done a million times and he'll still be no closer to an actual answer. Because it's subjective. Because no one knows. But he needs to know. Obsessively. The truth. As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself. Wich is that no one alive can know. And those that know can't tell anyone. End of movie.
Yes but you can choose to treat people with kindness and respect and love and NOT have to lie to yourself about religion. Like he said it’s just control
@@producedby3am344 oh I guess the obvious has to be stated. I'm sorry I presumed you had understood this person has an antisociale personality disorder. Or what used to be known as a psychopath. They are incapable of those emotions and view people as pawns in their little game. They have very little feelings towards others are massively egocentric. That's why he can and does the things he does. He doesn't see them as you do. To such a person it's all about power and control. Literally says so in the movie when the girl asks him why do you do it? Because you let me.
@@danielkeizer4174Because “you” let me or because God let’s him? Like he said, the true religion is control. He’s hoping to be proven wrong by doing this experiment but he never is/was.
The directors make this ending so people will talk about it, just like how they want us to, we are control by the movie, doing exactly what it wants us to do, crazy…
People may think that a more religious person would lean more into the "happy ending" because the prayer led to a miracle, and she had been saved. However, as someone who is religious (Catholic), I actually think that the True Ending resonates with me more. To know she has kept him from doing this to anyone else and that she is finally at peace at "Heaven's Door" feels more right as an ending. Also, one thing some people may have missed is that I think the plank of wood with 3 nails represents the 3 nails that were driven into Jesus at His death. Symbolically showing Barnes as a savior.
She didn’t get “saved” from anything. She dies in that room & everything we see if a perfect description of Barnes NDE which points to her never leaving the room.
@@acason4 That ending can't be the real one. She’s not dead. This is clear for two reasons: 1. Nobody dies from a utility knife. Even with damage to vital organs, it's a nearly harmless weapon. Barnes’ cuts were ugly, but not deep enough. Plus, the implant was in the right arm, far from any major arteries on the left side of the body. The damage, while messy, wasn’t fatal. 2. It couldn't have been a hallucination- for one simple reason: *Paxton never saw the model.* You can hallucinate things you’ve never seen, sure, but only if they’re not real. You *can’t* hallucinate something real that you’ve never laid eyes on. If Paxton had never seen the architectural model, how could she hallucinate it? That’s impossible-so she must be alive. 3. And the butterfly and the phone? Doesn’t matter. Irrelevant.
@@raphaelgoettenauer She is dead. The phone had NO SERVICE! You’re clearly an idiot. 🤦🏼♂️ A “utility knife” is a “harmless weapon”?? I know someone personally that was killed with one. How are you this stupid? 🤦🏼♂️
They all died, her leaving the house was her soul being free from her body. Endings are more beautiful than beginnings because everything gets slowly revealed to you, all your suffering and worry are vanquished and there is nothing but peace. What your meant to do on earth is your business but when it’s your time to go whether your ready or not embrace it.
Do we remember what it was like before we were born? (We don’t even remember what our first years were like.) Similarly, I think the end is just switching off the power. You are no longer suffering , no longer regretting things and nothing is revealed.
I thought the butterfly was just a hallucination from the excessive blood loss. I didn’t even consider that Sister Paxton might be dead, and that the hallucination could be a result of the lack of oxygen.
@ But it could take anywhere from 5 minutes to 14 hours for someone to bleed out. And he just stabbed her before the movie ends. So there’s a chance that it could’ve been a hallucination.
My immediate interpretation was that the resurrection was not supernatural, but something that happens all the time, which is that people with grievous injuries can cause people to pass out and they can wake back up even hours later, albeit, will pass away without urgent medical attention. Then, she actually does escape, and has the butterfly hallucination, but begins to question it, and starts to realize that there are some beliefs she needs to reconsider.
❤❤❤❤. 🙌🏾🙌🏾. Thats exactly what happens. This movie dilluionsed folks to believe that miracles save her and so by default people say its not realistic. Which is ironic because when you read the reasons why they believe she died, they actually refer to more supernatural elements and raises more questions. So in the sense, its actually those people who are clinging to an afterlife or heaven as a sort of comfort because to them they think it's a fate better than suffering. But everything that happened have actual realistic signs and explanations. Her phone being still dead is actually a sign of her being alive because realistically or rather with me if I'm in an area with no service it takes a while for it to come back on. Her being outside won't magically give her service. Many times I have to reset my phone and someone pointed out that her phone does show that it's signaling. There was also evidence that they had been with him for way longer than we are shown. We were given an illusion that time was shorter but there's a clear sign that it's been longer. Paxton did stay there all night. And since Reed clearly was moving around with his neck stabbed and Barnes is popping up to life, as a resourceful person Paxton can easily patch up her wound temporarily.
There are drugs you can take that can slow your heart rate and stop breathing momentarily to make you look dead from the outside. I wasn't sure is belladona was one of them though, but it had crossed my mind. Also, any paramedic will tell you that taking a pulse, unless you're a trained professional is highly unreliable. You most often just feel your own pulse. That is especially true in high stress situations when your own pulse is through the roof. That is also the reason why it's not trained in first aid anymore as a way to check a heartbeat. Breathing on the other hand is much harder to fake, the person would have to actively hold their breath (not eat a poison at all and fake everything) or be at least temporarily dead (via drugs).
The butterfly also refers to Zhuangzi’s butterfly dream, questioning the reality of that moment and any assumptions we bring to the ending. It reminds us that nothing is certain.
Another thing to consider in regards to the butterfly is that there are no butterflies in the winter. They cannot survive the cold. So it appears Paxton did indeed die and the butterfly was a hallucination as she was dying.
After watching this video, I came to the realization that the 'good ending" was the enactment of what would happen if my prayers actually worked. I pray for a miracle. I pray that Paxton survives. I know it doesn't work but it's what gives me comfort and the movie showed me how it would play out. I may have not found the one true religion but in the end I was praying with Paxton.
SPOILER: Unfortunately I still do 100% believe she died at the end. 1. Butterflys don't come out in winter (given the crazy snowstorm last night). 2. In a sense she reached her wish of being reincarnated as a butterfly so the moment it disappeared, one can make a guess that she was the butterfly.
I kind of think that's the point. I think in the physical world she died, but like religion, it doesn't matter what's true in a literal sense. Her religion served it's purpose to her and it is her truth. She died peacefully and with beauty. It reminds me of the ending of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep
@@hamedhosseini4938 Why does the butterfly being in winter matter if it was never meant to be real. I thought it was obvious that no matter how you viewed the ending, the butterfly was never presented as real in the end. Thats clear, fake butterflies don't need to worry about the weather.
I think there is an entire layer of complexity and insight that is not being discussed and that is the symbolism, the use of colors, stairs and doors to represent chakras, pineal gland, use of the 3 nails to represent possibly the father/son/holy ghost that hit Mr. Reed right between the eyes at death and one's personal internal spiritual journey of each of the characters. It is a much more layered and complex story.
I noticed the "trinity" of nails too haha. Maybe some "as above, so below" with the model of his house being a microcosm of the macrocosm the girls are experiencing. Also a hat tip to gnostic beliefs point to Reed as the demiurge archetype, and the false reality he is creating for the girls.
Either that, or she ate the cake to die, because she was incarcerated in that house for so long. And the "resurrected" one was indeed another woman. Oh, and also, didn't she see the dead woman in the next room lying?
I found the film to be one of the best psychological horrors I've seen in my life time. The whole mood was forboding from the very begining. I knew it wouldn't end well. You have to pay attention to all the little details and clues from the director. You have to be engaged or you'll miss something critical. I was so entralled I litterally felt like I was in that house with the girls. I felt their fear. Very good picture.
Is it weird that I thought from the beginning that the girls should’ve stayed in the living room and waited till the door opens in the morning and not go down these two doors if they didnt feel comfortable doing so??
Yeah, no way I'm going into mrder/rpe basement. Nothing's improved by it. Sure, he could've unalived them right in that room or dragged/pushed them, but I'd rather fight him upstairs. You won't get better chance downstairs.
Watched it yesterday. Paxton wears glasses at the start foreshadowing she will see like Reed sees by the end. Of course, her hallucinating the glasses being knocked off and broken is poignant as well. Beautiful film.
Not even a minute into this I was so confused why your voice sounded so familiar, as I was pretty sure this was the first of your videos I have watched. Then you mentioned the audiobooks to help sleep and realized I listen to you are the person I listen to nearly every night lol.
I’d like to add a couple observations I had that you might find interesting. 1. Sister Barnes reanimating to save Paxton is literally a “Deus ex machina” or “God from the machine” moment. Its function is generally to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending. I chuckled that the writers included this plot device in a horror film about debating Religion. 2. When Paxton escapes the house, the environment is frozen and quiet. If we consider that only moments before we are shown a diagram of Dante’s Inferno-and Paxton’s repeating “the only way out is through”, it is possible that Paxton has climbed down to the 9th Circle of Hell, on the shore before a lake of ice and that as she looks up just before the film cuts to black- perhaps she observes Dis frozen waist deep at it’s center, fixed and suffering for personal treachery against God. 3. It is also of note that Paxton’s phone shows 6:04, which is also about the time (6am) that Dante began escaping the Inferno by climbing down Dis’s ragged fur.
I really like your take. I was also thinking about the symbolism of Dante's Inferno and how that symbolism was being worked into the story, and you nailed it.
Love this take. Only thing I’m pondering is whether Mr. Reed himself represents Dis and that Paxton’s climb out of the house is the escape from hell.. also probably not an accident that the root of Paxton’s name, Pax, is prominent in Latin/christian texts, meaning Peace.
She wasn't dead yet she was DYING, thats why she was able to save the other girl. I guess the consensus is that she died too but lived long enough to get out. Pretty sad any way you look at it.
@@SmartLightDimwitPlenty have said she "died" and was resurrected. I'm saying that's BS to whoever thought that. She wasn't dead yet and that goes for everybody not just you
I'm the person who is too scared to watch horror/scary movies, but still wants to know what happened. I was already terrified watching your summary at home with all the lights on by the 4:30 minute marker and I hung on to the end. I will never watch this movie, but appreciate your thoughtful summary. I'm now subscribed so I can vicariously experience movies I will never have the guts to watch. 💛
It’s not really scary. I’m not a huge fan of horror and I have never really gone out of my way to watch horror movies. Compared to movies like Hereditary (also by A24, of course), this one is far more thought-provoking and intellectually engaging, and on multiple levels. I’d strongly recommend watching it, as of writing this comment I basically just came home from watching it in the cinema with friends.
I feel you- I startle easily and avoid horror/violent movies because I just find them too disturbing. I watched Heretic because I was curious and also thought it was more of a psychological thriller and not a horror. Wrong - people say it’s not particularly violent but I found it shocking and I had to shut my eyes for much of the last half hour 😢🙈
it also plays on the whole idea of the movie believing or not. if you believe in god and miracles then barnes came back killed him and she escaped. if you don’t believe then she just dies. really good movie enjoyed it
I like to think theres a 3rd possibility. I dont think she revived to kill him, she may have just been unconscious, and woke up and used the last of her strength to kill him. She then died for good. No one actually checked to see if she died, and people can survive while going unconscious to preserve themselves until help. So her body may have done that and when she heard her friend and him crying she woke up and decided to push her body ignoring the pain knowing she was gonna die anyway.
This feel highly unlikely. Apart from the neck tear, her hand war torn open. When I watched the finale I thought "this is bull*. She can't be still alive". That being said, that was my take of the scene. That she was somehow still alive. I just didn't think it was believable (pun unintended!) So, hm... that another level to look at "disbelieve"!
That's what I thought as 'unbelievable' as it was given the injury. Movies are always having characters survive, what in real life would be unsurvivable injuries, in order for them to have one last burst of strength and save the day.
yall are just low iq people, they showed mr.reed cutting her arm and take that rod out which apparently obstructed his so called ressurection and so proving it was just a part of paxtons hallucinations
Just watched this movie last night and something no RUclipsr seems to mention as well as Reddit threads is the statues. The statue with green eyes in the hallway moves on its own yet there seem to be no addressing the supernatural elements in the movie
After Barnes has her throat cut, see is laying out on the floor, the movies focus moves onto Reed and Paxton. A couple of multi-angled shots later I noticed Barnes wasn't dead, she showed movement after having a cut to her throat. I like the more obvious and pleasant ending with Paxton surviving. As for the butterfly ? Butterflies don't live in wintertime, the insect has certain symbolic references throughout history.
The butterfly thing is very easily disputed because it's an hallucination and Paxton is aware of that. A butterfly that's meant to not be real in both a good and bad ending doesn't need to survive in the winter. But I too kinda noticed Barnes moving a bit.
There was also the subtle moment when Mr Reed corrects the sisters over a quote that they started talking about, informing them that the quote actually belonged to Voltaire, a known anti papal conspirator, atheist, and often credited with being the brain child of the French Revolution. It gives the audience the inclination that Mr Reed's "quest" for the one true religion ended up leading him down a path of apostasy etc That is to say, for as much as he was clued up in all the theology of world religions, he was equally clued up with the atheistic arguments too
While Voltaire was certainly a huge, unabashed critic of the pre-1789 French ancien regime "Estates" system which organized French society into three major categories and the close, inextricable bonds shared by the Bourbon monarchy of Louis XVI and Catholic Church for centuries, many French historians still hotly debate whether Voltaire was an atheist or more like a deist, like other Enlightenment thinkers and politicians were like Thomas Jefferson and Robespierre and while Voltaire's ideas were very influential amongst Robespierre, Morat, St. Just, and later Napoleon, I would argue Rousseau's ideas and arguments were just as influential. Particularly how the Jacobins who ruled through the Committee of Public Safety from 1972-July 1794 (Thermidore) often cited Rousseau's theories about the "General Will", " Stag Hunt" to justify their "temporary" dictatorship, restricting civil liberties like freedom of press, assembly, arresting, convicting and guillotining accused counter-revolutionaries during the "Reign of Terror". Also caught up and eventually arrested and dying in a cold, forgotten island fortress off the coast of Calais was the famous, influential British philosopher, writer Thomas Paine after he served as a MP in the Chamber of Deputies in Paris.
Voltaire probably wouldve opposed many of the leading French revolutionary leaders for their organized, unnecessary state terror campaigns, widespread violence, and reinstating censorship, and arbitrary arrest and lack of checks and balances to prevent charismatic idealistic demogagoes like Robespierre who hijacked the aeges and hopes of the Revolution and proceeded to take it down a dark, fateful and violent road.
@davidroberts7282 That's fair and thanks for the info! I just happened to stumble across and read the works of Augustin Barruel (of course a tendencious source) on the French Revolution, about a week or so before seeing Heretic.
The fact that there are sister Paxtons out there is so sad and wonderful at the same time. They are so innocent or naive depending on how you look at it.
He questioned her if her father was in her life because of the ability to have 'daddy issues' which he knew in some way is related to intimate relationships as he saw the scar of the contraceptive on her arm. A clear sign of being led astray religiously. He knew it was looked down on in their religion so he knew she was not as devout as the other girl and would question a male authority figure/elder
What???? This comment makes no sense. Why do people relate women having sex with their dads in any way 🤢 yall are sick. Women can interact with men UNRELATED to their fathers existing. Men love to say women have daddy issues but then are silent about the fact they’re raised by single mothers and have daddy issues themselves.
I really appreciate your analysis here. It seems to me that the second, “true ending” is likely because in all reality, she did indeed die in that basement (whether killed by Reed or bled out during prayer from the earlier quite size able stab wound). I think the butterfly and snow was the “afterlife”, but I found the power both in the real depiction and analysis of this film that a lot of life is just so meaningless, violent, confusing, even mundane and nonsensical, and though she knows that the prayers and faith really do nothing, Sis Paxton stated that she still prays because “isn’t it beautiful that we focus on others”. I think that was (and to be honest the point of faith) to focus not on ourselves but ourselves in context of the community of fellow humans. I really love her point at the end, because even if she likely did die, she had the “final laugh” (the stronger moral standing at the end, she was and always will be about others), whereas Reed was about control to prove something to himself. I’m not a religious person, but I really loved the point, that even if prayer doesn’t really do anything, it’s the gesture of thought and love towards another that is the point. That is the love in her soul. He couldn’t defeat that in her.
It depends, some prayers are answered and some aren't. It's about testing ones faith. If your loved died in a car crash would you curse god or still worship? Or if you didn't believe in god or hated god what could change your mind? A love almost dying or you suddenly getting cured of cancer. It has to be taxing to have people like you ONLY when you do nice shit for them isn't it?
This was the best explanation!!! I feel like you ive listened to others and i feel as though they rush to the end to explain the butterfly by passing the build up
I was quite surprised at how suddenly Paxton became smart. i think Paxton actually died in the basement just because it's the more realistic / belieavable outcome imo. The butterfly and no cell services were what tipped me to this grim interpretation.
Notwithstanding the excellent screenply, acting and direction, this movie also provides us with rich avenues for logical, well-reasoned discussion. Three areas that could use some fleshing out might have been 1) epistemology (what we know/think we know) vs ontology (what actually IS). Secondly, the importance of language and semantics in facilitating various interpretations -- many of which progress from illusions to outright delusions. And lastly is the provocative notion that death "might" be a far more pleasant state than that of living. I'll leave the elaborating to others. lol
I think it's interesting that you say death is the more pleasant state because after going back n forth of which ending I agreed with, I ultimately decided on the 1st one. The one that describes the 2nd ending as true has a more hopeful tone than accepting reality. The video and commenters imply that if you accept she's alive you're not being realistic or thinking what happened was a miracle. Its the opposite for me. Its actually comforting to accept death, death is seen as the more hopeful option because many see it as an escape to suffering. The commentors who expressed her being in the afterlife raises more questions and they actually use more elements of supernatural and a miracle. In reality, there was no miracle. Her friend wasn't all the way dead like that and they implied that ending was gonna happen like that. This is more about if an individual views life more worth it if there is more suffering or they not worth it due to it. She lived but she will still suffer.
Former Mormon here. It would not be weird for a Mormon to say, "I'd like to send a sign to my loved ones in the form of a butterfly," but it would be weird for a true believing Mormon to use the word "reincarnate." Mr. Reed, being intimately acquainted with Mormon doctrine (and maybe even with Mormon culture), would have picked up on that. He was also smart enough to know that Paxton's fawning response was actually a smart survival tactic (like when she chose the "disbelief" door), and didn't necessarily indicate stupidity (although I think he was also smart enough to know that it would make her less of a threat to him and his plans, at least in the short-term). I'm not convinced Mr. Reed's goal was to indoctrinate Paxton into being a believer (although he certainly could have been planning to ultimately imprison, torture, "break", and control her). I think what he actually wanted was to watch and see if she would figure it out; why else would he have put the key in her pocket?? He anticipated that she would make and test her hypothesis, and end up in the room with the cages. And from that moment of trapped hopelessness, he could continue to break her spirit even further. Or... Or, wild theory incoming, maybe he expected that she might attack him, and he wanted to test that theory as well. He intentionally placed the letter opener in the living room, just as he intentionally placed the matches within reach, to keep them at the top of the stairs longer during the body switch. Maybe he had a way to listen in on their conversation in the cellar about "magic underwear" being the code word, or he had just figured it out from the way Barnes had used/emphasize the code word earlier, and he used it in that moment deliberately. Maybe because he planned to subdue her physical attack, thus helping break her spirit and increase her sense of helplessness even further. Or maybe, because he's a sicko, and he gets off on being physically attacked before subduing/raping a woman. Or maybe, and this is the most "out there" theory so far, because he was ready to end it all, or at least take a gamble on ending his own twisted, miserable existence. In this theory, he really did predict and control it all, even down to his own possible/likely death. In this case, she didn't really exert free will in stabbing Mr. Reed...which is a pretty dark thought, but definitely in-line with the themes the movie was exploring. (And maybe when he slit Paxton's throat, it was not only his final act of control, but also a mercy, as slowly dying from a gut wound is insanely painful.) Your theory about polygamous wives seems way off, and way less likely than just the fact that he only imprisoned women because they poised less of a physical threat to him, and/or it was a psycho-sexual thing. Lots of serial killer men have only killed women. Mr. Reed cared about control, not arcane polygamy doctrines, and wouldn't have bothered to formally marry the women as wives. The reason he brought up polygamy earlier, was because it tends to be the number one deal breaker/ source of cognitive dissonance in shattering Mormon women's faith (believe me, I'm friends with lots of ex-mormon women!) The biggest issue with the good ending that you didn't elaborate on, was that it was daytime outside. It had been night, and not enough time had elapsed for it to be morning. Also, the fact that it seemed like a pretty unlikely escape feat, given Paxton's mortal wound. And finally, her phone still showed "no signal" after exiting the house. Lots of clues, arguably too many, that she was in fact dying or dead. But then again, there are many, many clues to disprove religious beliefs that people stubbornly, hopefully cling to anyway, so maybe that was also the point.
To me (inactive Mormon woman here), I saw the caged women as his polygamous wives. And to me, being a polygamous wife is a fate worse than death. Reed himself said they all CHOSE to be there, and that sounds awfully familiar to me.
@@tamidawn8383If you were part of a polygamist marriage you weren't part of the LDS church. 🤷 And there ARE women who legitimately choose to live a polygamist lifestyle as batshit as that might appear to most. Who are we to tell other people what they can/can't do? As long as everyone is a contenting adult, it's none of our damn business.
Usually when people say this they are almost always an idiot. Yet I understand this all too well. Just sit back and let people show their own stupidity then you swoop in.
"previous women seemingly joined him willingly" i would say is incorrect as he likely (as shown with these girls) beat them down and destroyed their spirits, putting them in an extremely weakened state so he can manipulate them. We don't know what their experiences with him were or what he threatened them with so such assumptions would be naive. Im also guessing that woman willingly ate the pie because she was in such a sorry state that she welcomed death
I like that they added the additional man. It shows they had trust in him for guidance and approval, but in the end, he was just as gullible or naive if not more so than them. Basically, there is not always a "knight in shining armor to save you" as a woman. So you best have your wits about you I suppose. I liked it. It was subtle having been a woman in different unfortunate circumstances and watching men not be the protectors as I was brought to "believe". Lots of interesting and subtle takes on varying aspects of belief. I dig it. Edit: Subbed & liked 👍🏼
Best psychological thriller I've seen in a long time. I love movies that make you think. And this did not disappoint. From a horror standpoint the women in the cages, really well done. I've watched this, 3 separate times all with different people and talking about it after. Everyone has a different take on the movie.
I wonder how religious/faithful people would interpret the ending of the movie compared to nonreligious people. Paxton herself says she prays not necessarily because she believes but because it’s beautiful. Maybe the real ending doesn’t matter, the way we think about it does. You CHOOSE to believe or not believe-we will never really know until we ourselves die.
Im catholic and i find mormonism to be a dumb cult. The only reason i defend my religion aside from others is based on historically devout catholics that performed miracles. But if the first ending is the real one then i like to interpet that is not the belief in the girls religion that made the miracle and escape, is the belief in God itself. And if the second ending is real then that doesn't make it an atheist one since it shows the miracle that is the human brain itself. The idea that the brain projects her these images just shows the complexity of the world and the mind. I dont think an explosion like the big bang could make such a miracle possible, the brain just like computers had to be designed. So the movie questions religion but it doesn't deny the existance of God.
I was a practicing Mormon and am still a scholar of Mormon Studies. My mind immediately went to the story of Joseph Smith's First Vision, wherein Joseph claims that early in the spring of 1820 he went to a grove of trees to pray about which church to join. There he claims to have been attacked by a demonic presence, which gives way to a vision of God the Father and Jesus Christ. This story varies widely in the records from Smith's life, which I'll just mention because they aren't totally relevant, but if we interpret the ending with her having survived, the scene parallels the Smith story very well. Paxton survives a demonic ordeal, she finds herself in a grove, which looks to be winter, but considering how green the movie started may actually be early spring after a spring squall, and she has a divine vision of peace in the form of a butterfly. This is kind of a good nod too to the white salamander hoax, which you can Google, but... I kinda thought of it as a nice nod to the benefits of faith, or how people have their faith built to by the hardships they endure. Mormons have a lot of slogans, but one of the most popular amongst missionaries is "Endure to the End." I can't help but put on my old believer hat with this movie, and read this as a profoundly uplifting message that is surprisingly very LDS, considering the writer/directors aren't members. I immediately told my friends still in the church to see it, as well as my nonMormon friends who struggle to understand what it's like to go through a faith transition.
6:48 he's forcing them into a 'Midwestern goodbye' which is slang for when it takes you an hour to leave because the host isn't taking a hint and you don't want to be rude.
When at the end of the film she escapes from the house, they show the phone which still has no signal even though she is outside. This suggests that she is actually still in the basement and hallucinating.
@@cherrymmon assuming you believe Mr reed about metal walls. You have no reason to believe him. There may have just been no reception up there. Did we see metal walls?
@@BrandynQuigley wrote "Did we see metal walls?" Swearing someone did or did not see something is another theme of the movie. Faith that there was metal? Swearing "truth" about an illusion or trick? :-) Metal or no metal doesn't matter; their phones did not work. Belief or nonbelief (in metal, or anything else)... leads to the same place.
@SandraDodd that's what I'm saying. In this case, out of the house. Do you believe they're dead? Or did they escape. There's evidence for the latter while the former requires belief in an afterlife.
@@BrandynQuigley asked me "Do you believe they're dead?" Belief and Disbelief lead to the same place. 🙂 The actors are still alive. The characters are alive for most of the film; every time, they're alive again. "...the former requires belief in an afterlife." Seeing people dressed up and enacting a screenplay doesn't require belief in the afterlife. We don't need to believe in Mordor for the ring to go into the crack of doom. (But really, it's fiction, and that ring exists within a built world. Same with "Heretic," and life, death and belief.)
Spoiler: It's impossible that she survived. If you even know, butterflies DO not survive or come out in winter. It was her hallucinations per her wish of being reincarnated as a butterfly upon her ascent.
@@hamedhosseini4938 It can take days to die from an abdominal wound, either through infection or blood loss. Where she was stabbed didn't indicate it was in her liver or any immediately essential organs.
Honestly to me , both endings are equally happy.. Even if she died in basement and her brain gave her this vision based on her prior beliefs/thoughts, doesn’t mean she didn’t go somewhere better, it only shows her thoughts up to a certain point of her dying when the credits roll. So either way, I felt the ending did not disprove that religion isn’t real. It only showed the either her brain graced her with a more positive death experience prior to death , or that she made it out with a small verification, from God that he truly does exist.. I personally think the directors were going for the true ending, but for me, the true ending wasn’t verification of the fact that there is no afterlife , but more so giving her comfort in her last minutes of life, before transitioning to the next stage
I like to think the "good ending" is what actually happened. I like to think that Sister Barnes coming back to life was a "true miracle", a kind of resurrection to show the faith the two girls had, and the love of Sister Barnes to come back and save her friend. Mr. Reed's act was a magic trick, like stated earlier in the film, but what the Sisters had was the "real deal". At least, that's what I like to think. Even if, like religion, I only believe it's happening to give myself some kind of comfort about Sister Paxton surviving.
I wonder if there is even some kind of meta meaning in that, we want to believe it because we WANT her to survive, it comforts us. But as Mr Reed says "even though all the evidence points to the contrary". Cos I know on paper, TRUE ENDING makes sense. But I REALLY want to believe the good one.
I don’t like to think that’s the case though. What about the other Sister? How is it a good ending when one of them died? I feel like if you can watch this film and take from it what you did well then there’s no hope
@@lucykinski Well, maybe the "better ending" instead of "good ending". It's the good ending in the sense that they both didn't die, even though it's upsetting that Sister Barnes had to die :/
She didn't come back to life, she never died. She moved on the ground before they left that room, and there was precedent for her being able to operate on low blood pressure from the taco bell story.
I thought Mr Reed is a sexual predator and serial killer and all of the religious stuff is just his way of internally justifying his sexual deviance. just before Barnes stabs him, he’s creeping up behind her, talking about her underwear, and telling her that the one true religion is control; of course because he has all the control that makes him God in this religion, and that matches the pattern of serial killers who are motivated by sexual deviance, but who justify it to themselves by casting themselves as much smarter and more clever than their victims, who are almost subhuman in the killer’s eyes, and are therefore deserving, again in the killers eyes, of abuse and murder at the hands of the killer. I think prophet ate the pie because it was her way to escape what had been years of torture and abuse.
He also starts playing with her hair in that scene right before the code word, it's like the moment he thinks he has "won", the mask is slipping and he is letting his true motivation show. It's very subtle but it's there.
I don't know, I think there would have been more hints before if that was the case. He isn't very subtle but it does fit in his "control" I just think he's honestly more focused on wanting to be right. And the many mentions on the undergarments is because they are a big part of mormons/TLDS, seeings undergarments out of religion is one of the worst things you could do and thus they arent very known about. Also not all mormons wear them and sneak past the rules
@@rainbowdiamond6039 Maybe that is the point, that you basically cannot decide if he is a sexual predator, a cult leader, a serial killer... it's all about control, only different outlets for their urge to control. The point about the polygamy that was made, had a reason. While some rectify their horrific behaviour with religion, he let out his sadism with making questioning religion actually his religion. He was a believer of his own brain construct to rectify what he does/did. When in the end, he is just a predator.
I think that your comment proves exactly what the film makers were trying to show and that is that the meaning of this film is what YOU take from it. That will be influenced by all the things that have influenced you throughout your life. But this made you think and it made you feel 😊
It took me so long until he finally talks about control and proves that the point of religion but it was so well put together and Hugh Grant was a brilliant villain.
I think the ending where the other girl stood up to hit the dude with the stick is proof of a miracle. When Mr Reed cut the arm and took the birth control chip, if she's just playing dead (or not truly dead), she should atleast have reacted to the pain.
I have maintained that the secret to life is all about PERSPECTIVES, and this film provides enough for an entire dissertation covering the palpable subject
I agree. I’m agnostic, and this movie triggered me really bad in regards to the thought of “what is the secret to life?” I think this was a really well done movie, and it really hones in on the deeper aspect outside of religion; what is life about? What is its purpose? Very profound.
This one ending is a paradox of life. Creating a lot of mystery and uncertainty. The one certain thing is Mr. Reid is an asshole for torturing sister missionaries.
A predicament they wouldn't have been in had they kept their religion to themselves. The irony of coming to convince someone you are completely correct and know the truth and to see things your way and getting forced to stand by those convictions or die by them is apparently is lost on you. He tested their faith. To it's extremes. They should be thankful. He showed them god. If he exists that is.
@@danielkeizer4174 lol, you're kind of a creep, aren't you? Do you ever think maybe when people are listening to you they are just being polite and can't stand you?
Wow great deep dive, Morph! I adore media like this, the what ifs and 'did this really happen', and exploring what happens when we're dying. There's a lot of great stories out there like that. I highly recommend reading Going Bovine by Libba Bray. It's a great YA novel that explores those themes.
I think the ending is really a lot deeper than both of the endings you explored and there’s a lot of evidence to suggest this other alternate meaning.. I think the final scenes - the butterfly disappearing suddenly, the phone showing “no signal” and the fact the weather completely clears up from what it was just a few scenes earlier alludes directly to the Simulation theory that Reeds comes up with at the table (even spitballing) and how he explains to her that only in death will she “move through” to reality leaving the simulation. Yes, he’s improvising when doing this as she later calls him out for -but in the process I think he indirectly explains the whole point of the movie. That is, control by simulation, the whole thing being a Simulation and upon her dying, the butterfly glitching out along with all the other subtle signs suggest she’s doing just that, closing up the simulation.
I thought this too. But then the rooms of the duplicate prophets... unless he's playing chess knowing she would figure it out and that room full of caged women is a cop out
16:17 “am I a human dreaming being a butterfly…” That correlate with what has been said about the butterfly in the true ending : Paxton dead is dreaming being a butterfly
lol that would be some shit my dad would say! He's one of those Christian's who says dinosaur bones are on earth to test our faith, he also said the titanic hit that ice berg because Jack and Rose had sex before marriage 🥲😅🤣
I believe you are correct on the true ending...she even crawls out through the faux window, which ties in nicely to what was noted earlier in that it was something similarly foreshadowed with the moth not being able to find the REAL exit so is now accepting the artificial light in its place...it's not just about power, but about the things we BELIEVE are true...just like belief is needed for religion, it is ALSO utilized in what we BELIEVE happens to us after we are dead...she desperately wanted for a miracle to happen, and so her mind allowed her to believe that this is what happened...as well as the audience who was more inclined to believe in miracles existing believed that her being alive was the true ending. Which is what makes this film such beautiful art, that it allowed for different folks from different perspectives to bring their own lived experiences in with them and walk away with very differing interpretations. The film ultimately gives the audience a path and allows the audience the ability to CHOOSE which is right for them just like the movie itself did all along. Great video btw, I appreciate you taking the time to put these all together!
This is the reason i love watching your deep dives, and to be very honest I'm sure the second ending is the best one and it's the fact that we still don't have a clear answer till the end, as a religious person myself I've heard so much about resurrections, heaven, hell but I'm still uncertain if anything is even real and even if it is, then how will i actually react when i experience it. But anyways i genuinely love media that makes us question ourselves, our beliefs, our reality instead of giving us a black and white answer.
I found this film quite profound in its dialogue between Mr. Reed and the two young missionaries. Mr Reed having gone down a very deep rabbit hole in his quest for the true religion had become so lost and incomplete that he resorted to sociopathy. The two young missionaries with their gift of faith and acceptance of belief, find themselves in a horrific situation held hostage by the sociopathic Mr. Reed. The ending with the surviving girl comforting herself in prayer and drawing in what seems to show a short lived moment of a remorseful Mr. Reed. He has a momentary experience of enlightenment that his lifelong study and pursuits have led him nowhere near the truth. The simple act of belief and prayer from the dying girl is all the truth there is and the miracle of her dead friend intervening. So I took away from the ending that people that have to dig so deep for the truth about faith and spirituality need only look within. It isn’t complicated. It just is. And one can get very lost and farther away from the truth of God’s simple message and love by persisting with doubt rather than accepting the beauty of faith and belief and the internal and eternal peace it brings to our lives.
Beautifully said, but I’m finding it hard to believe that Mr. Reed went deep into learning since everything he said about Krishna is complete bunk and the story of Krishna’s birth and life are ridiculously easy to find. Virginity was never involved in any way for a start.
Ultimately it proves Religion is nothing but making people feel better, delusion. Prayer doesn't work. Religion is control and delusion without evidence.
- I don't think Barnes 'comes back to life'/'is resurrected' because the last shot we see of her before she kills Mr. Reed, her arms are still moving. She's not dead. - I don't believe Paxton escapes at all. In the scene where she 'escapes' she drops her phone on the ground so she can climb out the window and it clearly says on her phone "No Service" making it clear she's still inside the house. Had she actually escaped the outside would have given her phone signal back. To me that's not even 'ambiguous' because of the phone detail. Her 'escape' is merely hallucination.
I deliberately watched your video before going to see the film. I know it sounds weird, but I believe this enhances my enjoyment of the film itself. Sounds very much like it’s worth watching more than once. Great review👍🏾
To each their own but going in blind just made it so breathtaking! I had zero expectations and damn was I wowed! I do agree it’s worth a rewatch! So much to unpack
In my opinion, it’s not two endings, but one ending. Hallucinations and reality in one beautiful paradox noticed they didn’t say too much about Buddhism or Hinduism, because this would’ve led you to think more than one for one true religion Hinduism is polytheistic. Buddhism is also poly polytheistic and its nature, I also think it’s important to know if the defiant one was the one who chose belief she’s not just smart, but faithful
@@lewisbingham3758 spiritualism does not equal religion. Spiritualism isn't a method of control. Notice religion exists in colonizers and spiritualism comes from the indigenous.
Another interesting foreshadowing moment was when Paxton was ranking her fast food places of choice, when she said rally’s, she was corrected by Barnes that in this are they have checkers, and there was another fast food chain she named that she was corrected in but I can’t remember it. But it’s just another hint about the iterations of religion this time as fast food chain names
I think you can look at the endings as “belief” or “disbelief”. Not necessarily “good” or “true”. By saying one ending is true, you’re putting your own interpretation as the definitive ending. Something the film criticizes is the idea of certainty. I think the film clearly makes a point for the audience to choose what ending they believe or do not believe happened. If you believe Paxton escaped, you have belief. If you don’t think Paxton escaped and died from her wounds, you have disbelief.
Right I too actually didn't like how the more nihilism esque ending was labeled as true. Especially when I thought it would be correlated to what the creators said. But no they said it's up to us (which I don't like but hey). So calling it true is being disingenuous and it implies that good things can't be true or realistic. But also I think the term good to describe the 1st theory is overselling it too. If I believe she survived I'm taking it at face value. Me calling it good is dismissing the realistic bad aspects of it all. Nothing that happened was good, sure survival could be considered as good. But in itself is not a good thing, especially reading the comments. People clearly like believing death is the ultimate escape to avoid suffering... they're implying her being resurrected as a butterfly and going to the afterlife as good. Which idk about you having a dead phone in the afterlife is not good. (But imo that's why the dead phone points to the 1st ending being correct too). Realistically she has to continue to suffer through the trauma she experienced and lord knows what they actually did to her faith and how she views people. Its actually still grim in itself even though she survived. That being said I personally support the 1st ending but I don't think it showed to showcase more belief because in reality nothing supernatural or a miracle happened like that.
I saw the elder as being their 'prayer' to be saved. They think their prayers are going to be answered by God but they don't. Maybe that's why the Elder is portrayed in the way he is in the movie?
She obviously died and went to heaven at the end because there are no time jumps. They went in right before sunset and she gets out about 2 hours later and it’s broad day light
It was a 2 hour movie but you can clearly tell during the movie that more time was moving faster, specifically after the Morman Elder came looking for them at night in the midst of the storm
When they went in it was raining, and when she got out it wasn't. "Broad daylight" might be overstating it, but it was lighter (maybe without rain clouds clouds, if you want continuity, even though it might not be "real." "This is not real" was part of the frame by then.
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I hate movies that can’t even tell a story. It’s like they get halfway through their story and they say “I’m not smart enough to finish this, let’s call it interpretive art”
What a waste of time
Exactly what I said the second the movie ended-- and the butterfly is her- she has died
There are about 5 weapons in that front room.
He wouldn't last two minutes.
The butterfly landing on the girl’s hand is the soul of her murdered friend. She was in shock after being stabbed in the throat but was able to revive long enough to try and rescue her friend. In the end Barnes also dies after being able to escape. The performances were great but this is a MOVIE I don’t enjoy endings where everyone dies & the audience is left trying to figure it out.
Which ending you think is "true" says more about you than it does the movie. I don't think either ending is true and both are true and everything in between.
This film is terrifying. Imagine having Mormons inside your home...
Lmao as an ex missionary that made me laugh
Are they all this pretty though?
😂
I hate u😂😂😂
😂
The moment the doors are locked and you can't leave, its time to start swinging and throwing items, smash windows and go nuts.
Turn into a psychotic serial killer
Agree totally 😂
that is a male reaction - women as conditioned to be 'nice' and if you submit/not confront you are more likely to survive. The whole thing is that the minute he starts being a dick and they start feeling uncomfortable they stay because they are being polite not to make him worse - they don't demand to be let out. They ask.
It is Barnes pushing back that pushes him. The mention of how John Smith started the Mormons was to control women.
@@Fazziemannot me. I would have flipped that house over out of fear 🤣🤣🤣
You're absolutely right! (I thought it was just me who was thinking that. 🙂) The minute they couldn't get out, they should have pointed out to Mr. Reed that he has destroyed his credibility because he has already lied to them about his wife. If he can't open the door then they should pry it off it's hinges or, as you said, smash open a window and reach out so they can make a call. Going deeper into the house is just ridiculous. Of course, it's also ridiculous for them them to go into any house without (a) first calling their church to let them know exactly where they are at and (b) carrying industrial strength mace.
Hugh Grant deserves an Oscar. His acting was INCREDIBLE
Then Sophie deserves best supporting role for all the witty banner!
Imagine that being your one take
@@madeline569imagine not even giving your own take and bumping your gums like the absolute cretin you obviously are! 🙄🤦🏻♂️
He's just naturally a weird creepy guy
Oscar Gordon? 😊
I want to know who approved these building permits.
don’t need permits if you’re paying good enough and by that i mean hiring a contractor that’s willing to keep it a secret
Best comment
😂😂😂
The writers
You just fire and hire a few contractors so no one does too much work on their own 🤷🏻
That’s how I built the room under my garage 👍🏻
In addition to Paxton admitting to her disbelief in prayer, she also explained she wished to reincarnate as a butterfly. Reincarnation is against Mormon beliefs, so her offering to choose the door of disbelief was on-brand as she's demonstrated a few times that she isn't a genuine believer
Interesting, not an oversight since both the actresses are former Mormons! But I don't know if i'd say Paxton isn't genuine, I think she's a true survivor and the disbelief door was trying to keep Mr Reeeeeed happy, the fact she prayed in the face of the final danger in the basement and until her passing, would make me think she was actually a true believer. and IF you think the first ending is true, then she is a believer AND a chosen enough for a miracle to happen to save her. But it's up for debate!
Facts. When she said the word reincarnate I knew then she wasn’t a “true believer” due to the fact that in Christianity there is no reincarnation.
I agree that the heretic in Heretic was Paxton.
But also, there is also this thing among some Mormons where they say they will come back and give a sign. It's not reincarnation. It may be LIKE reincarnation.
It's not an official Mormon doctrine by any means, but it's a thing I heard growing up LDS here and there. There's a song called I'll Build You A Rainbow that was popular in the 80s with Mormons, where a boy's dead mother presents herself as a rainbow so he knows she is still present.
But with that said, Paxton is still the Heretic in the movie.
I havent seen the movie, but that's what i thought watching this video.
As a former Mormon, that line did strike me as unfamiliar when it came to what we were told and taught to repeat throughout life. Reincarnation is not learned and that small foreshadowing of her still finding her own personal set of beliefs was a interesting turn.
I don't think the metaphor of Dante's Inferno is being discussed enough. I felt as if the entire house represented the inferno, as they climb deeper and deeper down, each circle feeling more and more hopeless, and Paxton eventually returning to the top/heaven by way of her faith. Curious to hear more connections between the house and the inferno.
Great interpretation! Love this one!
I agree except I wonder if she has found herself at the bottom circle of hell at the end given she descended down to it and the cold/snow, rather than heaven. Dante climbed up to get out of hell.
I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO SAY SOMETHING
Going up and down the stairs with their bikes I think is symbolic of the inferno too.
He keeps the bottom level of his house cold, like the frozen centre of hell.
You didn't mention the phone at the end when she climbs out of the window. It still said no service when she drops it outside, while they had service outside before going into the home. I think she never left and she's hallucinating/dying.
So true, I agree with you, though I wonder if she was hallucinating, why wouldn’t she hallucinate having cell signal?
I noticed that too about the phone...no service when she was outside
She's also still bleeding to death. I don't think she patched herself up or anything and she doesn't find help. She can just suddenly move around like normal again.
My argument for that theory would be that, sometimes, a phone's signal will not reconnect immediately after leaving a location that would disrupt its connection. It could take either a few seconds or a couple of minutes for it to even get a bar of signal (that's also depending on the location, service, and phone model, of course), and the camera at the end focuses on the phone for about 8 seconds before she picks it up, and I would say that her phone does get at least a bar in the very next shot. But then again, that's just my interpretation.
I think she left. But she died.
The real miracle in this movie was how long that phone battery lasted with how often the flashlight was being used
being a pixel which has the worst battery
😂
You're just saying that because your mobile phone controls you not the other way around.
Maybe not phones 10 years ago but phones now last a long time with super efficient LED flash.
I think you need to upgrade whatever phone you're using lol
I thought Paxton was great. When I was a teenager I went to youth groups and there was always a couple of girls with that vibe; extremely meek, smiley, and generous and VERY smart. People mistake kindness for weakness and I love that they played that up in this. Chloe East was so believable.
Who else thought the guy from the church was going to see their bikes? I was screaming “THE BIKES! THE BIKES!”
When the key wasn't in the right pocket, I knew he had moved the bikes.
Yes, Mr. Reed took the key and moved the bike. Hence Paxton noticing his wet hair, etc. The bikes were gone by the time the elder arrived.
SAME seeing the bike lock on the cellar door drained all hope
@@SandraDoddSame! This dude is too smart and we already know this isn’t his first rodeo.
I can't believe that was Topher Grace lol
When Sister Barnes talked about her history with Taco Bell, she said, "When I was dead, I saw exactly what your prophet described. A blinding white light, clouds, but not Heaven, a sense of wanting to return, a feeling that my state of reality wasn't real.", which exactly describes the ending scene with Sister Paxton; A blinding white light in the background, a cloud of snow on the ground, her sense of wanting to go back home(escaping the house), and her feeling that her state of reality wasn't real(disappearance of butterfly). So, I believe the true ending was truly what happened. But, I do love how we all have our own interpretation on the same matter.
Spot on!!!!
Thats the beauty of the ending. Everything logical points towards her death but there is enough room of interpretation that you can choose to believe otherwise.
I'd like to think she wasn't dead, it wasn't supernatural. Just about him being an evil creep that at least ONE of them survived
I didn't even think about that!
I need to shout out that shot of the model house where you can see Paxton navigating it in real time and as she gets to the room of the model hose the camera pans to her entering it. Just really cool direction and cinematography.
I’m just loving Hue Grant’s Renaissance. From romantic leading man to quirky character actor who remains at the height of his powers. Some argue that he’s even better now than he’s ever been. His range has certainly surprised me, since he seems capable of doing anything. More power to him.
I came here to say the same thing! i love him as the bad guy
Much better as this than he is in romantic comedy.. He’s great as a scary guy
He was great in Guy Ritchie's THE GENTLEMEN (as a hooking supporting character!) and the miniserie biopic A VERY ENGLISH SCANDAL ❤👍
@@thekeyboardess1150 : Never saw The Gentlemen, but I did see trailers and few YT clips. His, “mockney,” cockney accent was the most entertaining bit in each clip. He seems to be revelling in every role, like, “I’ve done the mega-star thing, got all the money I’ll ever need, learned a few life lessons and now I don’t have to try. I’m just going to do what I think has artistic merit, or take roles that promise me a damned good time.” And you can tell when an artist is enjoying themselves.
I watched several interviews with the cast of the Dungeons and Dragons movie. There are several around on RUclips. And it’s just so impressive, the way all the other actors (some of them bigger stars than he is now) defer to him. He’s so funny and charming in real life, it seems. His wit is certainly un-fakeable (yes, I made up a word. Arrest me) and spontaneous, and the rapport he has with colleagues is actually sweet to behold.
It’s like everything’s a bit of a giggle for him now and he’s just having a ball. But the talent he has is that his revelry is contagious, in a way that makes you feel invited to the party, so you can’t help but have a ball with him. I’m getting to the point where his name alone is sufficient for me to check out a movie.
On that note, would you recommend The Gentlemen?
Maybe someday it will come out he's not the person you seem to think he is. He was in a relationship with Elizabeth Hurley after all. Who is apparently a name on the "the island" visitors.
The ending is like the "belief" and "disbelief" doors leading to the very same room
Yup, none of it is real 😂🎉
At the end death will reign supreme
For some reason I think the doors would sound better if labelled ‘beliver’ and ‘non-believer’
Believe or disbelieve, you end up in the same place. In a way that could be true if religion is real or it's not.
@@mostmelon8243 SO no salvation for neither of the ways
The acting in this is just spot on.
Everyone is on point.
Whoever cast this did an excellent job.
BTW, the snow should demonstrate that there is no way a butterfly would be there.
My thought too
Well, if we're to believe that the butterfly is actually the soul of her friend then it wouldn't matter what the weather was like surely because it's not really a butterfly? (not that I believe she was alive in the end, just saying if you want to believe the magical religious ending)
Theres a butterfly in the beginning tho.
Yep
@@nevermusicthat’s just it. It wasn’t snowing outside. They made a point of showing rain and green, so a snowy garden makes no sense.
Imagine the Horror of haveing not 1, not 2, but 4 versions of monopoly in your house. Pure terror, great writing.
I got 4 o.o
hes got all them women downstairs and nothing but time to kill, monopoly night again
Hugh Grant deserves at least a nomination for this work. Amazing performance!
Going from an Oompa Loompa to this is devious work
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
He was a great Oompa though
😂😂😂😂 I agree 100%
The fact that he used to be a 90s romcom heartthrob too like his career is so fascinating 😭😭
Now I imagine him making an Oompa Loompa song for the sisters 😂
I think that the good ending is likely for the reason that the even bigger reveal than Mr. Reed not believing in religion is that Paxton isn't a literalist. Her explanation of the prayer experiment aligns with the theme of absolute certainty in either direction being absurd, and that she is making the conscious choice to believe. The butterfly appears and disappears to show that she is aware it isn't there, but chooses to see it anyway as a representative of Barnes.
Absurdism wins
I really like this. I could also see the butterfly disappearing because Paxton is being revived. The exit from the house is her last moments of consciousness, and her brain starts to make a beautiful picture. but her phone is connecting and as soon as it gets signal, which they had outside the house, it will connect and the messages they left and texts they sent will go through, alerting the elders to where they are. You could see the disappearance of the butterfly as her brain ceasing to paint this insane picture as she dies, the silence as her brain coming back on line, and the credits rolling not as her death but as her being yanked back into reality. Just a take.
This is a great theory
this is my interpretation as well
@@malkam.7543 it's a relief reading this
This movie should’ve got much more acclaim. Excellent movie from start to finish which is rare nowadays.
No it was trash
Great first 2 acts....so so 3rd act.
Not to mention the butterfly at the end again but in addition to the butterfly disappearing, it got deadly quiet suddenly. No outside noise anymore and she acknowledges it. Credits.
This seems to me that she died in that moment. Meaning she went through all of that just to die post escape. She did escape. And I think in the moment of adrenaline crash allowed her body to give up and she died once she knew she was free.
Tragic but beautiful.
See I thought she died too, but when the Mr. Reed crawled up to her, I think that’s when it happened. I think she imagined Sister Barnes saving her and her escaping, but it didn’t actually happen. i think that was her reincarnating as that butterfly
I agree that she made it outside before she died. The snow is often referenced as her own mental pre-death concoction representing heaven and clouds, but I don’t think she’d have known that it had begun to snow earlier. The snow didn’t start to fall until after they were already trapped in the house, so not sure she’d have known about it (remember it was only raining when they’d arrived). I may be missing something - maybe there was a point where she saw the snow outside through a window or something - otherwise the snow would not have been a likely thing for her to concoct, and therefore she was seeing it for real.
Snow dampens sound 😌
Butterflies don't exist in the winter.
@@BrandynQuigley
Excellent point. That tells us she didn't make it.
I saw the movie this weekend and thought the ending was a mixture of the two. I believed there was a "miracle" that led to her escape, but when she was free, she was dying and saw the butterfly, which served as her own personal confirmation.
The way I understood the movie is summed up through the doors of belief and disbelief. Whether you believe or not doesn't matter. All paths lead to the same place - an unknown to those who haven't crossed over themselves.
Not really, all paths do not lead to the same place, that’s the whole point of the ending, and in religion itself.
@@itsagoal182both doors ended in the basement so yes same thing.
The butterfly wasn’t really there. On her second look, she accepts reality, there is no magic.
I love this interpretation
Or like the diagram that Grant showed her how she will escape the dream and be in actual reality!
I have read so many of these comments, and they are brilliant! The movie clearly wanted people to discuss it, and they were very successful. There are so many different perspectives that I never even thought about! Thank you for posting and than everyone else for commenting! This movie was fantastic.
Exactly I'm loving the discussion
My take on the ending is similar to the film makers take. We choose what we believe and that makes it our reality. That's why paxton brings up the prayer experiment. It doesnt matter that "it doesnt work" what matters is how it makes you feel and that colors your view of the world. Notice how mr. Reed was very knowledgeable but he wasnt very happy/satisfied. Paxton looked like she found peace. We choose what we see at the end
Not really. Happiness is just a temporal thing. The main themes of the movie (according to me at least) is obsession, knowledge and faith. A triune problem (pun intended). You see all of the characters are deeply flawed when it comes to their consistency, wich comes through in their dialogue.
Non really holds up to scrutiny when it comes to their beliefs. The movie shows as much.
There's so much to unpack I really have to rewatch the entire movie again (oh goody, and actual psychological thriller/horror that works and has levels) but in essence I'm going to stick to the main antagonist.
He's clearly an intellectual and has an obsessive need to know what is true. He hasn't been able to figure out if any of the religions are true at all but has this incessant need to keep testing for it. Because it's a question without an answer. It's an itch he can't scratch. He's obsessed with finding out the truth. But there's really only one way to get to that truth. An inevitability. The end of the road. Game over. Death. Only in death can he find out wich one was the right religion (as can we all) so the question remains unanswered. And this bothers him. His quest remains unfulfilled. And yet there's a need to find an answer to a question that has non. Obsession takes over. He wants to know the right path to take. But doesn't.
After years and years of studying in depth the thing he needs what he really lacks is faith. He can't commit to anything, because his mind won't let him. What if it's the wrong one. How can we know wich is the right one?. And so the spiral continues and he lost his mind in the process. But can't let go because he needs to know before it's too late. He's essentially a man ruled by fear.
He needs certainty and no religion actually gives certainty. Even in his misguided conclusion he is factually inconsequent to himself. As he remains searching endlessly repeatedly trying to push the envelope to no avail. Yet he hasn't given up, and won't. In that respect the girls have him dead to rights. Everyone needs something to believe in. Even if its not going to lead to an actual answer everyone is still searching. So is mister Reed until his last breath. He's hoping to solve the riddle that has taken his sanity and is now effectively ruling his life. He can't let it go. Because he has to know the unknowable about the unknown. Lest he die before solving the equation.
When in the last scene he sobs when she's praying he's actually still hoping for a miracle. Because deep down he really does want something to happen, anything. To find a reason to believe in something or see a sign of gods existence. When that doesn't happen yet again, he get's frustrated and angry at yet another flawed attempt to appeal to this higher authority that clearly hasn't come to aid.
As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself.
And was about to prove yet again his mastery over her fate was bigger then any gods. This was also the point of these others in the boxes. It's an allegory within an allegory within a paradox. As they are all probably different denominations of religions (boxes) non can escape. Het they lead nowhere and non actually get saved from his power over them. Religion=control and he's controlling multiple religious people stuck within their seperate boxes. All hopeless and unable to change whatever fate he has planned out for them. God's aren't coming to their aid. But what he wants more then anything is for one to do so. His desperation is palpable. He's tormenting them yes. But not just out of the pleasure for it. He's trying to push endlessly to prove himself wrong. Wich is the irony of it all. A man who desperately wants to know if god exists, but hasn't the conviction or faith necessary to believe in one. He is also controlled by the exact same things he is trying to put onto any of his victims. Fear of the unknown. Scared to look into the abyss. As there's but one way to know. And that's still open for debate as non has ever returned to tell anyone if they are right or wrong. Hence the experiment. He knows it's a trick but they don't. So he does gain insight into what they believe happened. Because he has no belief himself. And unfortunately that experiment can be done a million times and he'll still be no closer to an actual answer. Because it's subjective. Because no one knows. But he needs to know. Obsessively. The truth. As he's dying he is out of time and now can't find and note the true answer. No Nobel prize. Nothing to write about. The end of his intellectual journey and life has amounted to nothing. He's still not closer to an answer. Perhaps if he kills her god would come before he dies. Ambiguous scene where dead person comes to life to save her. (Still no actual answer because she could be a miracle or happenstance) The movie isn't trying to answer this question you see. The movie is the questioning itself.
Wich is that no one alive can know. And those that know can't tell anyone. End of movie.
Yes but you can choose to treat people with kindness and respect and love and NOT have to lie to yourself about religion. Like he said it’s just control
@@producedby3am344 oh I guess the obvious has to be stated. I'm sorry I presumed you had understood this person has an antisociale personality disorder.
Or what used to be known as a psychopath. They are incapable of those emotions and view people as pawns in their little game. They have very little feelings towards others are massively egocentric. That's why he can and does the things he does. He doesn't see them as you do. To such a person it's all about power and control. Literally says so in the movie when the girl asks him why do you do it? Because you let me.
It's real point that in her experience, concluding film, he's dead, she escapes.
@@danielkeizer4174Because “you” let me or because God let’s him? Like he said, the true religion is control. He’s hoping to be proven wrong by doing this experiment but he never is/was.
The directors make this ending so people will talk about it, just like how they want us to, we are control by the movie, doing exactly what it wants us to do, crazy…
People may think that a more religious person would lean more into the "happy ending" because the prayer led to a miracle, and she had been saved. However, as someone who is religious (Catholic), I actually think that the True Ending resonates with me more. To know she has kept him from doing this to anyone else and that she is finally at peace at "Heaven's Door" feels more right as an ending. Also, one thing some people may have missed is that I think the plank of wood with 3 nails represents the 3 nails that were driven into Jesus at His death. Symbolically showing Barnes as a savior.
She didn’t get “saved” from anything. She dies in that room & everything we see if a perfect description of Barnes NDE which points to her never leaving the room.
@@acason4 That ending can't be the real one. She’s not dead.
This is clear for two reasons:
1. Nobody dies from a utility knife. Even with damage to vital organs, it's a nearly harmless weapon. Barnes’ cuts were ugly, but not deep enough. Plus, the implant was in the right arm, far from any major arteries on the left side of the body. The damage, while messy, wasn’t fatal.
2. It couldn't have been a hallucination- for one simple reason: *Paxton never saw the model.* You can hallucinate things you’ve never seen, sure, but only if they’re not real. You *can’t* hallucinate something real that you’ve never laid eyes on. If Paxton had never seen the architectural model, how could she hallucinate it? That’s impossible-so she must be alive.
3. And the butterfly and the phone? Doesn’t matter. Irrelevant.
@@raphaelgoettenauer
She is dead. The phone had NO SERVICE! You’re clearly an idiot. 🤦🏼♂️
A “utility knife” is a “harmless weapon”?? I know someone personally that was killed with one. How are you this stupid? 🤦🏼♂️
They all died, her leaving the house was her soul being free from her body. Endings are more beautiful than beginnings because everything gets slowly revealed to you, all your suffering and worry are vanquished and there is nothing but peace. What your meant to do on earth is your business but when it’s your time to go whether your ready or not embrace it.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Do we remember what it was like before we were born? (We don’t even remember what our first years were like.) Similarly, I think the end is just switching off the power. You are no longer suffering , no longer regretting things and nothing is revealed.
How can you find peace if you're not existing anymore, as nothing.
@ is this for me or someone else ?
If your comment was addressed to me, yes, it was for you.
I thought the butterfly was just a hallucination from the excessive blood loss. I didn’t even consider that Sister Paxton might be dead, and that the hallucination could be a result of the lack of oxygen.
Excessive blood loss results in death it’s where she passed is the question
@ But it could take anywhere from 5 minutes to 14 hours for someone to bleed out. And he just stabbed her before the movie ends. So there’s a chance that it could’ve been a hallucination.
My immediate interpretation was that the resurrection was not supernatural, but something that happens all the time, which is that people with grievous injuries can cause people to pass out and they can wake back up even hours later, albeit, will pass away without urgent medical attention.
Then, she actually does escape, and has the butterfly hallucination, but begins to question it, and starts to realize that there are some beliefs she needs to reconsider.
❤❤❤❤. 🙌🏾🙌🏾. Thats exactly what happens. This movie dilluionsed folks to believe that miracles save her and so by default people say its not realistic. Which is ironic because when you read the reasons why they believe she died, they actually refer to more supernatural elements and raises more questions. So in the sense, its actually those people who are clinging to an afterlife or heaven as a sort of comfort because to them they think it's a fate better than suffering. But everything that happened have actual realistic signs and explanations. Her phone being still dead is actually a sign of her being alive because realistically or rather with me if I'm in an area with no service it takes a while for it to come back on. Her being outside won't magically give her service. Many times I have to reset my phone and someone pointed out that her phone does show that it's signaling. There was also evidence that they had been with him for way longer than we are shown. We were given an illusion that time was shorter but there's a clear sign that it's been longer. Paxton did stay there all night. And since Reed clearly was moving around with his neck stabbed and Barnes is popping up to life, as a resourceful person Paxton can easily patch up her wound temporarily.
There are drugs you can take that can slow your heart rate and stop breathing momentarily to make you look dead from the outside. I wasn't sure is belladona was one of them though, but it had crossed my mind.
Also, any paramedic will tell you that taking a pulse, unless you're a trained professional is highly unreliable. You most often just feel your own pulse. That is especially true in high stress situations when your own pulse is through the roof. That is also the reason why it's not trained in first aid anymore as a way to check a heartbeat.
Breathing on the other hand is much harder to fake, the person would have to actively hold their breath (not eat a poison at all and fake everything) or be at least temporarily dead (via drugs).
The butterfly also refers to Zhuangzi’s butterfly dream, questioning the reality of that moment and any assumptions we bring to the ending. It reminds us that nothing is certain.
Nobody is talking about how the version of knocking on heavens door that plays in the credits is sung by sophie thatcher who plays sister barnes
I turned my phone back on and asked Siri to identify the singer while it was still playing. 🙂
I noticed this too! She sung it beautifully.
Very relevant to the story
Knocking but no one answering
It was also famously remade by guns and roses but written by bob Dylan. I thought that touch given Reed's comparison to songs and games was perfect
Another thing to consider in regards to the butterfly is that there are no butterflies in the winter. They cannot survive the cold. So it appears Paxton did indeed die and the butterfly was a hallucination as she was dying.
After watching this video, I came to the realization that the 'good ending" was the enactment of what would happen if my prayers actually worked. I pray for a miracle. I pray that Paxton survives. I know it doesn't work but it's what gives me comfort and the movie showed me how it would play out. I may have not found the one true religion but in the end I was praying with Paxton.
SPOILER:
Unfortunately I still do 100% believe she died at the end. 1. Butterflys don't come out in winter (given the crazy snowstorm last night). 2. In a sense she reached her wish of being reincarnated as a butterfly so the moment it disappeared, one can make a guess that she was the butterfly.
I kind of think that's the point. I think in the physical world she died, but like religion, it doesn't matter what's true in a literal sense. Her religion served it's purpose to her and it is her truth. She died peacefully and with beauty. It reminds me of the ending of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep
@@cobaltpterodactyl That is just your interpretation.
@InspiriumESOO Yes....? I think the ending is intentionally left up to interpretation!
@@hamedhosseini4938 Why does the butterfly being in winter matter if it was never meant to be real. I thought it was obvious that no matter how you viewed the ending, the butterfly was never presented as real in the end. Thats clear, fake butterflies don't need to worry about the weather.
your last point about the wives is spot on, he also has a mug and thermos with "hubby" written on it
Explain please
I thought that mug was just to fool his victims into thinking he has a wife in the house
Could be both. After all, it is hinted at first the prophet is Mrs. Reed. @@nee2905
@@nee2905Apparently he has several wives in the basement
I think there is an entire layer of complexity and insight that is not being discussed and that is the symbolism, the use of colors, stairs and doors to represent chakras, pineal gland, use of the 3 nails to represent possibly the father/son/holy ghost that hit Mr. Reed right between the eyes at death and one's personal internal spiritual journey of each of the characters. It is a much more layered and complex story.
I noticed the "trinity" of nails too haha. Maybe some "as above, so below" with the model of his house being a microcosm of the macrocosm the girls are experiencing. Also a hat tip to gnostic beliefs point to Reed as the demiurge archetype, and the false reality he is creating for the girls.
The dropped matches form the triangle of the holy trinity !
This video is the one true analysis. The, ‘Wendy’s’ of ending explained videos, you might say.
😂👍
I would’ve just assumed ‘the prophet’ just ate a pie laced with a drug that slows or temp stops your heart. Movies tells us this drug exists
Either that, or she ate the cake to die, because she was incarcerated in that house for so long. And the "resurrected" one was indeed another woman. Oh, and also, didn't she see the dead woman in the next room lying?
@@MsSonali1980yes there's literally a body lying on the ground and also he says she (the prophet) doesn't know it's laced with the poison
Ahh.. The Caribbean Zombie Drug would have been an interesting add
I found the film to be one of the best psychological horrors I've seen in my life time. The whole mood was forboding from the very begining. I knew it wouldn't end well. You have to pay attention to all the little details and clues from the director. You have to be engaged or you'll miss something critical. I was so entralled I litterally felt like I was in that house with the girls. I felt their fear. Very good picture.
You missed the statue of Plato at the entrance to the "cave"
Is it weird that I thought from the beginning that the girls should’ve stayed in the living room and waited till the door opens in the morning and not go down these two doors if they didnt feel comfortable doing so??
Then they'd be no movie lol
Yeah, no way I'm going into mrder/rpe basement. Nothing's improved by it. Sure, he could've unalived them right in that room or dragged/pushed them, but I'd rather fight him upstairs. You won't get better chance downstairs.
Never let them get you to the next location. Your odds of survival significantly decrease.
That was just a lie, he had to manually open it im pretty sure. Why would his dead bolt be on a timer considering what he has in the basement?
There would probably be some other sort of test.
Watched it yesterday. Paxton wears glasses at the start foreshadowing she will see like Reed sees by the end. Of course, her hallucinating the glasses being knocked off and broken is poignant as well. Beautiful film.
Not even a minute into this I was so confused why your voice sounded so familiar, as I was pretty sure this was the first of your videos I have watched. Then you mentioned the audiobooks to help sleep and realized I listen to you are the person I listen to nearly every night lol.
“Hugh Grant doing an impression of 90’s Hugh Grant” lmao
I’d like to add a couple observations I had that you might find interesting. 1. Sister Barnes reanimating to save Paxton is literally a “Deus ex machina” or “God from the machine” moment. Its function is generally to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending. I chuckled that the writers included this plot device in a horror film about debating Religion. 2. When Paxton escapes the house, the environment is frozen and quiet. If we consider that only moments before we are shown a diagram of Dante’s Inferno-and Paxton’s repeating “the only way out is through”, it is possible that Paxton has climbed down to the 9th Circle of Hell, on the shore before a lake of ice and that as she looks up just before the film cuts to black- perhaps she observes Dis frozen waist deep at it’s center, fixed and suffering for personal treachery against God. 3. It is also of note that Paxton’s phone shows 6:04, which is also about the time (6am) that Dante began escaping the Inferno by climbing down Dis’s ragged fur.
I really like your take. I was also thinking about the symbolism of Dante's Inferno and how that symbolism was being worked into the story, and you nailed it.
Love this take. Only thing I’m pondering is whether Mr. Reed himself represents Dis and that Paxton’s climb out of the house is the escape from hell.. also probably not an accident that the root of Paxton’s name, Pax, is prominent in Latin/christian texts, meaning Peace.
She wasn't dead yet she was DYING, thats why she was able to save the other girl. I guess the consensus is that she died too but lived long enough to get out. Pretty sad any way you look at it.
@@homelesshannah50 Did I say she was dead? Whether she was dead or DYING, it’s still a Deus Ex Machina.
@@SmartLightDimwitPlenty have said she "died" and was resurrected. I'm saying that's BS to whoever thought that. She wasn't dead yet and that goes for everybody not just you
I'm the person who is too scared to watch horror/scary movies, but still wants to know what happened. I was already terrified watching your summary at home with all the lights on by the 4:30 minute marker and I hung on to the end. I will never watch this movie, but appreciate your thoughtful summary. I'm now subscribed so I can vicariously experience movies I will never have the guts to watch. 💛
It’s not really scary. I’m not a huge fan of horror and I have never really gone out of my way to watch horror movies. Compared to movies like Hereditary (also by A24, of course), this one is far more thought-provoking and intellectually engaging, and on multiple levels. I’d strongly recommend watching it, as of writing this comment I basically just came home from watching it in the cinema with friends.
This one is more suspense than an actual horror movie tbh.
There’s only maybe 1 or 2 jump scares too
precisely hahaha
I feel you- I startle easily and avoid horror/violent movies because I just find them too disturbing. I watched Heretic because I was curious and also thought it was more of a psychological thriller and not a horror. Wrong - people say it’s not particularly violent but I found it shocking and I had to shut my eyes for much of the last half hour 😢🙈
This movie leaves you shivering. I love the ending.
Paxton died. The ending is a hallucination. Great thought provoking movie. 8.9/10
it also plays on the whole idea of the movie believing or not. if you believe in god and miracles then barnes came back killed him and she escaped. if you don’t believe then she just dies. really good movie enjoyed it
@@chamoisauce7491it's not necessarily a miracle though, it happens sometimes that people who are presumably dead wake up again
@@fehyndana7725Not usually after having their throat cut and their arm mutilated.
honestly if its left up to the audience to figure out then its terrible story telling.
@ not it’s not. not when that’s the intention such a crybaby.
Really enjoyed this review.
Calming voice appreciated
Loving the debate and really opened my eyes! Yes of course, the Prophets are Mr. Reed's wives!! Now I understand the Hubby mug!
I like to think theres a 3rd possibility. I dont think she revived to kill him, she may have just been unconscious, and woke up and used the last of her strength to kill him. She then died for good. No one actually checked to see if she died, and people can survive while going unconscious to preserve themselves until help. So her body may have done that and when she heard her friend and him crying she woke up and decided to push her body ignoring the pain knowing she was gonna die anyway.
Alison Brotha was disemboweled, nearly decapitated and still dragged herself to find help
I like this ending better
This feel highly unlikely. Apart from the neck tear, her hand war torn open. When I watched the finale I thought "this is bull*. She can't be still alive". That being said, that was my take of the scene. That she was somehow still alive. I just didn't think it was believable (pun unintended!) So, hm... that another level to look at "disbelieve"!
That's what I thought as 'unbelievable' as it was given the injury. Movies are always having characters survive, what in real life would be unsurvivable injuries, in order for them to have one last burst of strength and save the day.
yall are just low iq people, they showed mr.reed cutting her arm and take that rod out which apparently obstructed his so called ressurection and so proving it was just a part of paxtons hallucinations
Just watched this movie last night and something no RUclipsr seems to mention as well as Reddit threads is the statues. The statue with green eyes in the hallway moves on its own yet there seem to be no addressing the supernatural elements in the movie
maybe there's hidden cameras Mr. reed put in them that moves when sensing motion
After Barnes has her throat cut, see is laying out on the floor, the movies focus moves onto Reed and Paxton. A couple of multi-angled shots later I noticed Barnes wasn't dead, she showed movement after having a cut to her throat. I like the more obvious and pleasant ending with Paxton surviving. As for the butterfly ? Butterflies don't live in wintertime, the insect has certain symbolic references throughout history.
The butterfly thing is very easily disputed because it's an hallucination and Paxton is aware of that. A butterfly that's meant to not be real in both a good and bad ending doesn't need to survive in the winter. But I too kinda noticed Barnes moving a bit.
@@imaniblue125 but there was an actual butterfly inside their house. this confuses me
There was also the subtle moment when Mr Reed corrects the sisters over a quote that they started talking about, informing them that the quote actually belonged to Voltaire, a known anti papal conspirator, atheist, and often credited with being the brain child of the French Revolution. It gives the audience the inclination that Mr Reed's "quest" for the one true religion ended up leading him down a path of apostasy etc That is to say, for as much as he was clued up in all the theology of world religions, he was equally clued up with the atheistic arguments too
I would guess that if one studies theology on an academic level, they also have to study philosophy.
While Voltaire was certainly a huge, unabashed critic of the pre-1789 French ancien regime "Estates" system which organized French society into three major categories and the close, inextricable bonds shared by the Bourbon monarchy of Louis XVI and Catholic Church for centuries, many French historians still hotly debate whether Voltaire was an atheist or more like a deist, like other Enlightenment thinkers and politicians were like Thomas Jefferson and Robespierre and while Voltaire's ideas were very influential amongst Robespierre, Morat, St. Just, and later Napoleon, I would argue Rousseau's ideas and arguments were just as influential. Particularly how the Jacobins who ruled through the Committee of Public Safety from 1972-July 1794 (Thermidore) often cited Rousseau's theories about the "General Will", " Stag Hunt" to justify their "temporary" dictatorship, restricting civil liberties like freedom of press, assembly, arresting, convicting and guillotining accused counter-revolutionaries during the "Reign of Terror".
Also caught up and eventually arrested and dying in a cold, forgotten island fortress off the coast of Calais was the famous, influential British philosopher, writer Thomas Paine after he served as a MP in the Chamber of Deputies in Paris.
Voltaire probably wouldve opposed many of the leading French revolutionary leaders for their organized, unnecessary state terror campaigns, widespread violence, and reinstating censorship, and arbitrary arrest and lack of checks and balances to prevent charismatic idealistic demogagoes like Robespierre who hijacked the aeges and hopes of the Revolution and proceeded to take it down a dark, fateful and violent road.
@davidroberts7282 That's fair and thanks for the info! I just happened to stumble across and read the works of Augustin Barruel (of course a tendencious source) on the French Revolution, about a week or so before seeing Heretic.
It was actually Spider-Man and not Voltaire that said that though.. really silly mistake Hugh made
The fact that there are sister Paxtons out there is so sad and wonderful at the same time. They are so innocent or naive depending on how you look at it.
He questioned her if her father was in her life because of the ability to have 'daddy issues' which he knew in some way is related to intimate relationships as he saw the scar of the contraceptive on her arm. A clear sign of being led astray religiously. He knew it was looked down on in their religion so he knew she was not as devout as the other girl and would question a male authority figure/elder
What???? This comment makes no sense. Why do people relate women having sex with their dads in any way 🤢 yall are sick. Women can interact with men UNRELATED to their fathers existing. Men love to say women have daddy issues but then are silent about the fact they’re raised by single mothers and have daddy issues themselves.
Yup, most females aren't going to rush into sex at a young age if dad is still around. That was the way it was for me.
I really appreciate your analysis here. It seems to me that the second, “true ending” is likely because in all reality, she did indeed die in that basement (whether killed by Reed or bled out during prayer from the earlier quite size able stab wound). I think the butterfly and snow was the “afterlife”, but I found the power both in the real depiction and analysis of this film that a lot of life is just so meaningless, violent, confusing, even mundane and nonsensical, and though she knows that the prayers and faith really do nothing, Sis Paxton stated that she still prays because “isn’t it beautiful that we focus on others”. I think that was (and to be honest the point of faith) to focus not on ourselves but ourselves in context of the community of fellow humans. I really love her point at the end, because even if she likely did die, she had the “final laugh” (the stronger moral standing at the end, she was and always will be about others), whereas Reed was about control to prove something to himself. I’m not a religious person, but I really loved the point, that even if prayer doesn’t really do anything, it’s the gesture of thought and love towards another that is the point. That is the love in her soul. He couldn’t defeat that in her.
It depends, some prayers are answered and some aren't. It's about testing ones faith. If your loved died in a car crash would you curse god or still worship? Or if you didn't believe in god or hated god what could change your mind? A love almost dying or you suddenly getting cured of cancer. It has to be taxing to have people like you ONLY when you do nice shit for them isn't it?
Great breakdown, I appreciate it so much. Randomly stumbled across this film while browsing for movies to watch and I’m glad I found it
This was the best explanation!!! I feel like you ive listened to others and i feel as though they rush to the end to explain the butterfly by passing the build up
I was quite surprised at how suddenly Paxton became smart. i think Paxton actually died in the basement just because it's the more realistic / belieavable outcome imo. The butterfly and no cell services were what tipped me to this grim interpretation.
Notwithstanding the excellent screenply, acting and direction, this movie also provides us with rich avenues for logical, well-reasoned discussion. Three areas that could use some fleshing out might have been 1) epistemology (what we know/think we know) vs ontology (what actually IS). Secondly, the importance of language and semantics in facilitating various interpretations -- many of which progress from illusions to outright delusions. And lastly is the provocative notion that death "might" be a far more pleasant state than that of living. I'll leave the elaborating to others. lol
I think it's interesting that you say death is the more pleasant state because after going back n forth of which ending I agreed with, I ultimately decided on the 1st one. The one that describes the 2nd ending as true has a more hopeful tone than accepting reality. The video and commenters imply that if you accept she's alive you're not being realistic or thinking what happened was a miracle. Its the opposite for me. Its actually comforting to accept death, death is seen as the more hopeful option because many see it as an escape to suffering. The commentors who expressed her being in the afterlife raises more questions and they actually use more elements of supernatural and a miracle. In reality, there was no miracle. Her friend wasn't all the way dead like that and they implied that ending was gonna happen like that. This is more about if an individual views life more worth it if there is more suffering or they not worth it due to it. She lived but she will still suffer.
@imaniblue125 Well-reasoned analysis. Bravo.
Former Mormon here. It would not be weird for a Mormon to say, "I'd like to send a sign to my loved ones in the form of a butterfly," but it would be weird for a true believing Mormon to use the word "reincarnate." Mr. Reed, being intimately acquainted with Mormon doctrine (and maybe even with Mormon culture), would have picked up on that. He was also smart enough to know that Paxton's fawning response was actually a smart survival tactic (like when she chose the "disbelief" door), and didn't necessarily indicate stupidity (although I think he was also smart enough to know that it would make her less of a threat to him and his plans, at least in the short-term).
I'm not convinced Mr. Reed's goal was to indoctrinate Paxton into being a believer (although he certainly could have been planning to ultimately imprison, torture, "break", and control her). I think what he actually wanted was to watch and see if she would figure it out; why else would he have put the key in her pocket?? He anticipated that she would make and test her hypothesis, and end up in the room with the cages. And from that moment of trapped hopelessness, he could continue to break her spirit even further. Or...
Or, wild theory incoming, maybe he expected that she might attack him, and he wanted to test that theory as well. He intentionally placed the letter opener in the living room, just as he intentionally placed the matches within reach, to keep them at the top of the stairs longer during the body switch. Maybe he had a way to listen in on their conversation in the cellar about "magic underwear" being the code word, or he had just figured it out from the way Barnes had used/emphasize the code word earlier, and he used it in that moment deliberately. Maybe because he planned to subdue her physical attack, thus helping break her spirit and increase her sense of helplessness even further. Or maybe, because he's a sicko, and he gets off on being physically attacked before subduing/raping a woman.
Or maybe, and this is the most "out there" theory so far, because he was ready to end it all, or at least take a gamble on ending his own twisted, miserable existence. In this theory, he really did predict and control it all, even down to his own possible/likely death. In this case, she didn't really exert free will in stabbing Mr. Reed...which is a pretty dark thought, but definitely in-line with the themes the movie was exploring.
(And maybe when he slit Paxton's throat, it was not only his final act of control, but also a mercy, as slowly dying from a gut wound is insanely painful.)
Your theory about polygamous wives seems way off, and way less likely than just the fact that he only imprisoned women because they poised less of a physical threat to him, and/or it was a psycho-sexual thing. Lots of serial killer men have only killed women. Mr. Reed cared about control, not arcane polygamy doctrines, and wouldn't have bothered to formally marry the women as wives. The reason he brought up polygamy earlier, was because it tends to be the number one deal breaker/ source of cognitive dissonance in shattering Mormon women's faith (believe me, I'm friends with lots of ex-mormon women!)
The biggest issue with the good ending that you didn't elaborate on, was that it was daytime outside. It had been night, and not enough time had elapsed for it to be morning. Also, the fact that it seemed like a pretty unlikely escape feat, given Paxton's mortal wound. And finally, her phone still showed "no signal" after exiting the house. Lots of clues, arguably too many, that she was in fact dying or dead. But then again, there are many, many clues to disprove religious beliefs that people stubbornly, hopefully cling to anyway, so maybe that was also the point.
To me (inactive Mormon woman here), I saw the caged women as his polygamous wives. And to me, being a polygamous wife is a fate worse than death. Reed himself said they all CHOSE to be there, and that sounds awfully familiar to me.
@@tamidawn8383If you were part of a polygamist marriage you weren't part of the LDS church. 🤷 And there ARE women who legitimately choose to live a polygamist lifestyle as batshit as that might appear to most. Who are we to tell other people what they can/can't do? As long as everyone is a contenting adult, it's none of our damn business.
Oh please.😅😅😅😅
TLDR @lauriemadsen is a dork
Movie was good but no unbeliever will ever waiver my firm faith in my creator & religion. Athiests can suck one 😂
"Hiding intelligence as a survival tactic" got me to sub to your channel. I use this tactic all the time. Why let my enemies know that I know?
Usually when people say this they are almost always an idiot. Yet I understand this all too well. Just sit back and let people show their own stupidity then you swoop in.
@@OnlineSometimes and that wasn't as smart as you thought it was either, but I do agree that OP is a moron
You have been controlled.
this is the end of us. @@klodianmema2877
wow youre so sigma
"previous women seemingly joined him willingly" i would say is incorrect as he likely (as shown with these girls) beat them down and destroyed their spirits, putting them in an extremely weakened state so he can manipulate them. We don't know what their experiences with him were or what he threatened them with so such assumptions would be naive. Im also guessing that woman willingly ate the pie because she was in such a sorry state that she welcomed death
I like that they added the additional man. It shows they had trust in him for guidance and approval, but in the end, he was just as gullible or naive if not more so than them. Basically, there is not always a "knight in shining armor to save you" as a woman. So you best have your wits about you I suppose. I liked it. It was subtle having been a woman in different unfortunate circumstances and watching men not be the protectors as I was brought to "believe". Lots of interesting and subtle takes on varying aspects of belief. I dig it.
Edit: Subbed & liked 👍🏼
Hugh Grant is getting better and better as he grows older - Brilliant actor 👍
Best psychological thriller I've seen in a long time. I love movies that make you think. And this did not disappoint. From a horror standpoint the women in the cages, really well done. I've watched this, 3 separate times all with different people and talking about it after. Everyone has a different take on the movie.
One of the best reviews of this movie I've seen
I wonder how religious/faithful people would interpret the ending of the movie compared to nonreligious people. Paxton herself says she prays not necessarily because she believes but because it’s beautiful. Maybe the real ending doesn’t matter, the way we think about it does. You CHOOSE to believe or not believe-we will never really know until we ourselves die.
Im catholic and i find mormonism to be a dumb cult. The only reason i defend my religion aside from others is based on historically devout catholics that performed miracles. But if the first ending is the real one then i like to interpet that is not the belief in the girls religion that made the miracle and escape, is the belief in God itself. And if the second ending is real then that doesn't make it an atheist one since it shows the miracle that is the human brain itself. The idea that the brain projects her these images just shows the complexity of the world and the mind. I dont think an explosion like the big bang could make such a miracle possible, the brain just like computers had to be designed. So the movie questions religion but it doesn't deny the existance of God.
I was a practicing Mormon and am still a scholar of Mormon Studies. My mind immediately went to the story of Joseph Smith's First Vision, wherein Joseph claims that early in the spring of 1820 he went to a grove of trees to pray about which church to join. There he claims to have been attacked by a demonic presence, which gives way to a vision of God the Father and Jesus Christ.
This story varies widely in the records from Smith's life, which I'll just mention because they aren't totally relevant, but if we interpret the ending with her having survived, the scene parallels the Smith story very well. Paxton survives a demonic ordeal, she finds herself in a grove, which looks to be winter, but considering how green the movie started may actually be early spring after a spring squall, and she has a divine vision of peace in the form of a butterfly. This is kind of a good nod too to the white salamander hoax, which you can Google, but... I kinda thought of it as a nice nod to the benefits of faith, or how people have their faith built to by the hardships they endure.
Mormons have a lot of slogans, but one of the most popular amongst missionaries is "Endure to the End." I can't help but put on my old believer hat with this movie, and read this as a profoundly uplifting message that is surprisingly very LDS, considering the writer/directors aren't members.
I immediately told my friends still in the church to see it, as well as my nonMormon friends who struggle to understand what it's like to go through a faith transition.
Religion is irrelevant, in the end good intentions prevail and rest at peace.
My ex is Mormon and I can’t wait for her to watch and tell me what she thinks
@@lemueljr1496lds is the most absolutely bullshit religion that exists. I mean Joseph seed? Polygamy? The fucking tablets or whatever? wtf🤣🤣
6:48 he's forcing them into a 'Midwestern goodbye' which is slang for when it takes you an hour to leave because the host isn't taking a hint and you don't want to be rude.
When at the end of the film she escapes from the house, they show the phone which still has no signal even though she is outside. This suggests that she is actually still in the basement and hallucinating.
@@cherrymmon assuming you believe Mr reed about metal walls. You have no reason to believe him. There may have just been no reception up there.
Did we see metal walls?
@@BrandynQuigley wrote "Did we see metal walls?"
Swearing someone did or did not see something is another theme of the movie. Faith that there was metal? Swearing "truth" about an illusion or trick? :-)
Metal or no metal doesn't matter; their phones did not work. Belief or nonbelief (in metal, or anything else)... leads to the same place.
@SandraDodd that's what I'm saying. In this case, out of the house. Do you believe they're dead? Or did they escape. There's evidence for the latter while the former requires belief in an afterlife.
@@BrandynQuigleyNo it doesn’t, she was just hallucinating.
@@BrandynQuigley asked me "Do you believe they're dead?"
Belief and Disbelief lead to the same place. 🙂
The actors are still alive.
The characters are alive for most of the film; every time, they're alive again.
"...the former requires belief in an afterlife."
Seeing people dressed up and enacting a screenplay doesn't require belief in the afterlife.
We don't need to believe in Mordor for the ring to go into the crack of doom. (But really, it's fiction, and that ring exists within a built world. Same with "Heretic," and life, death and belief.)
So this is like , the life of Pi , you can believe or not believe. I choose one. =) I chose the same in Life of Pi. The tiger was real. Paxton lived.
Spoiler:
It's impossible that she survived. If you even know, butterflies DO not survive or come out in winter. It was her hallucinations per her wish of being reincarnated as a butterfly upon her ascent.
All died noone won
@@hamedhosseini4938 It can take days to die from an abdominal wound, either through infection or blood loss. Where she was stabbed didn't indicate it was in her liver or any immediately essential organs.
Honestly to me , both endings are equally happy.. Even if she died in basement and her brain gave her this vision based on her prior beliefs/thoughts, doesn’t mean she didn’t go somewhere better, it only shows her thoughts up to a certain point of her dying when the credits roll. So either way, I felt the ending did not disprove that religion isn’t real. It only showed the either her brain graced her with a more positive death experience prior to death , or that she made it out with a small verification, from God that he truly does exist.. I personally think the directors were going for the true ending, but for me, the true ending wasn’t verification of the fact that there is no afterlife , but more so giving her comfort in her last minutes of life, before transitioning to the next stage
I like to think the "good ending" is what actually happened. I like to think that Sister Barnes coming back to life was a "true miracle", a kind of resurrection to show the faith the two girls had, and the love of Sister Barnes to come back and save her friend. Mr. Reed's act was a magic trick, like stated earlier in the film, but what the Sisters had was the "real deal". At least, that's what I like to think. Even if, like religion, I only believe it's happening to give myself some kind of comfort about Sister Paxton surviving.
I wonder if there is even some kind of meta meaning in that, we want to believe it because we WANT her to survive, it comforts us. But as Mr Reed says "even though all the evidence points to the contrary". Cos I know on paper, TRUE ENDING makes sense. But I REALLY want to believe the good one.
I don’t like to think that’s the case though. What about the other Sister? How is it a good ending when one of them died? I feel like if you can watch this film and take from it what you did well then there’s no hope
@@MadMorphMovieClub Yes! I think that's very intentionally the case! I really loved this movie and its messages and meanings :)
@@lucykinski Well, maybe the "better ending" instead of "good ending". It's the good ending in the sense that they both didn't die, even though it's upsetting that Sister Barnes had to die :/
She didn't come back to life, she never died. She moved on the ground before they left that room, and there was precedent for her being able to operate on low blood pressure from the taco bell story.
I thought Mr Reed is a sexual predator and serial killer and all of the religious stuff is just his way of internally justifying his sexual deviance. just before Barnes stabs him, he’s creeping up behind her, talking about her underwear, and telling her that the one true religion is control; of course because he has all the control that makes him God in this religion, and that matches the pattern of serial killers who are motivated by sexual deviance, but who justify it to themselves by casting themselves as much smarter and more clever than their victims, who are almost subhuman in the killer’s eyes, and are therefore deserving, again in the killers eyes, of abuse and murder at the hands of the killer. I think prophet ate the pie because it was her way to escape what had been years of torture and abuse.
He also starts playing with her hair in that scene right before the code word, it's like the moment he thinks he has "won", the mask is slipping and he is letting his true motivation show. It's very subtle but it's there.
I don't know, I think there would have been more hints before if that was the case. He isn't very subtle but it does fit in his "control" I just think he's honestly more focused on wanting to be right. And the many mentions on the undergarments is because they are a big part of mormons/TLDS, seeings undergarments out of religion is one of the worst things you could do and thus they arent very known about. Also not all mormons wear them and sneak past the rules
More common than not, even if they aren't religous they're programmed to be hypocrites.
@@rainbowdiamond6039 Maybe that is the point, that you basically cannot decide if he is a sexual predator, a cult leader, a serial killer... it's all about control, only different outlets for their urge to control. The point about the polygamy that was made, had a reason. While some rectify their horrific behaviour with religion, he let out his sadism with making questioning religion actually his religion. He was a believer of his own brain construct to rectify what he does/did. When in the end, he is just a predator.
I think that your comment proves exactly what the film makers were trying to show and that is that the meaning of this film is what YOU take from it. That will be influenced by all the things that have influenced you throughout your life. But this made you think and it made you feel 😊
It took me so long until he finally talks about control and proves that the point of religion but it was so well put together and Hugh Grant was a brilliant villain.
I must say, I’ve seen a few of these recap videos and yours is by far the best!!! Thank you!
Officially joined your club! Your voice is so soothing. Looking forward to future deep dives and to watch your previous work.
Welcome welcome! Thank you!
yes, his voice has so much character.
I think the ending where the other girl stood up to hit the dude with the stick is proof of a miracle. When Mr Reed cut the arm and took the birth control chip, if she's just playing dead (or not truly dead), she should atleast have reacted to the pain.
I have maintained that the secret to life is all about PERSPECTIVES, and this film provides enough for an entire dissertation covering the palpable subject
I agree. I’m agnostic, and this movie triggered me really bad in regards to the thought of “what is the secret to life?” I think this was a really well done movie, and it really hones in on the deeper aspect outside of religion; what is life about? What is its purpose? Very profound.
LOL that's what we learn in philosophy class.
This one ending is a paradox of life. Creating a lot of mystery and uncertainty. The one certain thing is Mr. Reid is an asshole for torturing sister missionaries.
that last part...lol. Hes a real creep and weirdo.
A predicament they wouldn't have been in had they kept their religion to themselves.
The irony of coming to convince someone you are completely correct and know the truth and to see things your way and getting forced to stand by those convictions or die by them is apparently is lost on you.
He tested their faith. To it's extremes. They should be thankful. He showed them god. If he exists that is.
@@danielkeizer4174 lol, you're kind of a creep, aren't you? Do you ever think maybe when people are listening to you they are just being polite and can't stand you?
@danielkeizer4174 "they should be thankful" People like you probably have bodies in your basement
@danielkeizer4174 so if you want to share something you love with someone that means they can torture you!? Nice take bro! What a stupid comment!
Yes! At first I was a bit annoyed at Paxton's "naive" nature until I saw the drop of sweat. She was trying to placate him the entire time
Wow great deep dive, Morph! I adore media like this, the what ifs and 'did this really happen', and exploring what happens when we're dying. There's a lot of great stories out there like that. I highly recommend reading Going Bovine by Libba Bray. It's a great YA novel that explores those themes.
I think the ending is really a lot deeper than both of the endings you explored and there’s a lot of evidence to suggest this other alternate meaning..
I think the final scenes - the butterfly disappearing suddenly, the phone showing “no signal” and the fact the weather completely clears up from what it was just a few scenes earlier alludes directly to the Simulation theory that Reeds comes up with at the table (even spitballing) and how he explains to her that only in death will she “move through” to reality leaving the simulation.
Yes, he’s improvising when doing this as she later calls him out for -but in the process I think he indirectly explains the whole point of the movie.
That is, control by simulation, the whole thing being a Simulation and upon her dying, the butterfly glitching out along with all the other subtle signs suggest she’s doing just that, closing up the simulation.
i wrote my response a little bit ago, then scrolled down and saw yours....I am on the same page as you
I thought this too. But then the rooms of the duplicate prophets... unless he's playing chess knowing she would figure it out and that room full of caged women is a cop out
16:17 “am I a human dreaming being a butterfly…”
That correlate with what has been said about the butterfly in the true ending : Paxton dead is dreaming being a butterfly
Plot Twist: Reid is actually Joseph Smith back from the dead to test them.
Lolz he wasn't marrying them
lol that would be some shit my dad would say! He's one of those Christian's who says dinosaur bones are on earth to test our faith, he also said the titanic hit that ice berg because Jack and Rose had sex before marriage 🥲😅🤣
I believe you are correct on the true ending...she even crawls out through the faux window, which ties in nicely to what was noted earlier in that it was something similarly foreshadowed with the moth not being able to find the REAL exit so is now accepting the artificial light in its place...it's not just about power, but about the things we BELIEVE are true...just like belief is needed for religion, it is ALSO utilized in what we BELIEVE happens to us after we are dead...she desperately wanted for a miracle to happen, and so her mind allowed her to believe that this is what happened...as well as the audience who was more inclined to believe in miracles existing believed that her being alive was the true ending. Which is what makes this film such beautiful art, that it allowed for different folks from different perspectives to bring their own lived experiences in with them and walk away with very differing interpretations. The film ultimately gives the audience a path and allows the audience the ability to CHOOSE which is right for them just like the movie itself did all along. Great video btw, I appreciate you taking the time to put these all together!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍
... not sure if anyone here has mentioned the surreal shot of her running up the stairs "into" the room via the model of the house shot. Great film.
This is the reason i love watching your deep dives, and to be very honest I'm sure the second ending is the best one and it's the fact that we still don't have a clear answer till the end, as a religious person myself I've heard so much about resurrections, heaven, hell but I'm still uncertain if anything is even real and even if it is, then how will i actually react when i experience it. But anyways i genuinely love media that makes us question ourselves, our beliefs, our reality instead of giving us a black and white answer.
I found this film quite profound in its dialogue between Mr. Reed and the two young missionaries. Mr Reed having gone down a very deep rabbit hole in his quest for the true religion had become so lost and incomplete that he resorted to sociopathy. The two young missionaries with their gift of faith and acceptance of belief, find themselves in a horrific situation held hostage by the sociopathic Mr. Reed. The ending with the surviving girl comforting herself in prayer and drawing in what seems to show a short lived moment of a remorseful Mr. Reed. He has a momentary experience of enlightenment that his lifelong study and pursuits have led him nowhere near the truth. The simple act of belief and prayer from the dying girl is all the truth there is and the miracle of her dead friend intervening. So I took away from the ending that people that have to dig so deep for the truth about faith and spirituality need only look within. It isn’t complicated. It just is. And one can get very lost and farther away from the truth of God’s simple message and love by persisting with doubt rather than accepting the beauty of faith and belief and the internal and eternal peace it brings to our lives.
Beautifully said, but I’m finding it hard to believe that Mr. Reed went deep into learning since everything he said about Krishna is complete bunk and the story of Krishna’s birth and life are ridiculously easy to find. Virginity was never involved in any way for a start.
Ultimately it proves Religion is nothing but making people feel better, delusion. Prayer doesn't work.
Religion is control and delusion without evidence.
- I don't think Barnes 'comes back to life'/'is resurrected' because the last shot we see of her before she kills Mr. Reed, her arms are still moving. She's not dead.
- I don't believe Paxton escapes at all. In the scene where she 'escapes' she drops her phone on the ground so she can climb out the window and it clearly says on her phone "No Service" making it clear she's still inside the house. Had she actually escaped the outside would have given her phone signal back. To me that's not even 'ambiguous' because of the phone detail. Her 'escape' is merely hallucination.
I deliberately watched your video before going to see the film. I know it sounds weird, but I believe this enhances my enjoyment of the film itself. Sounds very much like it’s worth watching more than once. Great review👍🏾
Right! I watched it
last night🌃Only to
be watching it over again!😩
To each their own but going in blind just made it so breathtaking! I had zero expectations and damn was I wowed! I do agree it’s worth a rewatch! So much to unpack
Same here. I’m watching this video before watching the movie for better understanding.
You rob yourself of developing your own thoughts and perspective.
Can’t think for yourself, just like religious people
In my opinion, it’s not two endings, but one ending. Hallucinations and reality in one beautiful paradox noticed they didn’t say too much about Buddhism or Hinduism, because this would’ve led you to think more than one for one true religion Hinduism is polytheistic. Buddhism is also poly polytheistic and its nature, I also think it’s important to know if the defiant one was the one who chose belief she’s not just smart, but faithful
@@lewisbingham3758 spiritualism does not equal religion. Spiritualism isn't a method of control.
Notice religion exists in colonizers and spiritualism comes from the indigenous.
Spectacular review!! 😊. New follower 👋 because of it.
The movie was GREAT and left me 🤔 !
Glad for your breakdowns!
Another interesting foreshadowing moment was when Paxton was ranking her fast food places of choice, when she said rally’s, she was corrected by Barnes that in this are they have checkers, and there was another fast food chain she named that she was corrected in but I can’t remember it. But it’s just another hint about the iterations of religion this time as fast food chain names
Good point. Kinda like how we used the term "same difference" when we were younger. "Same difference" with religion.
The other chain they mentioned was Hardee's/Carl's Jr. The chain is known as Hardee's in the East, and Carl's Jr. in the West.
I think you can look at the endings as “belief” or “disbelief”. Not necessarily “good” or “true”. By saying one ending is true, you’re putting your own interpretation as the definitive ending. Something the film criticizes is the idea of certainty. I think the film clearly makes a point for the audience to choose what ending they believe or do not believe happened. If you believe Paxton escaped, you have belief. If you don’t think Paxton escaped and died from her wounds, you have disbelief.
Right I too actually didn't like how the more nihilism esque ending was labeled as true. Especially when I thought it would be correlated to what the creators said. But no they said it's up to us (which I don't like but hey). So calling it true is being disingenuous and it implies that good things can't be true or realistic. But also I think the term good to describe the 1st theory is overselling it too. If I believe she survived I'm taking it at face value. Me calling it good is dismissing the realistic bad aspects of it all. Nothing that happened was good, sure survival could be considered as good. But in itself is not a good thing, especially reading the comments. People clearly like believing death is the ultimate escape to avoid suffering... they're implying her being resurrected as a butterfly and going to the afterlife as good. Which idk about you having a dead phone in the afterlife is not good. (But imo that's why the dead phone points to the 1st ending being correct too). Realistically she has to continue to suffer through the trauma she experienced and lord knows what they actually did to her faith and how she views people. Its actually still grim in itself even though she survived. That being said I personally support the 1st ending but I don't think it showed to showcase more belief because in reality nothing supernatural or a miracle happened like that.
Best movie I’ve seen so far this year. Thought provoking. Loved it !!!
I saw the elder as being their 'prayer' to be saved. They think their prayers are going to be answered by God but they don't. Maybe that's why the Elder is portrayed in the way he is in the movie?
She obviously died and went to heaven at the end because there are no time jumps. They went in right before sunset and she gets out about 2 hours later and it’s broad day light
It was a 2 hour movie but you can clearly tell during the movie that more time was moving faster, specifically after the Morman Elder came looking for them at night in the midst of the storm
Bro. You think watch time equals time in the story?
@@aszul7750 it does. Unless suggested otherwise
One thing, if that many women went missing in that neck of the woods, people would be looking for them.
When they went in it was raining, and when she got out it wasn't. "Broad daylight" might be overstating it, but it was lighter (maybe without rain clouds clouds, if you want continuity, even though it might not be "real."
"This is not real" was part of the frame by then.
These actors were superb 👏 The script, editing, and acting are all just wonderful.