With the signal generator, I have ordered a few low-pass filters to take out the harmonics. From Ali Baba, they are about $25 and available in a range of frequencies from HF to 1 GHz. The low pass filters only need to be roughly around the pass signal as the second harmonic is twice the source. So a 500 MHz low pass filter is good from a bit above 250 MHz to a bit below 500 MHz. Thus, not many are needed for most applications. The TinySA and the signal generator are great value and quite useful as you show. A very useful video.
In Ultra mode the filter will not help. below 800 MHz just turn off ultra mode and there is no problem Above 1 GHz the TinySA Ultra creates harmonics at all frequencies. so there is no way to filter them out.
Vow. I have Tiny SA and main weakness is minimal resolution filter 3kHz which offers radio modulations measurements very limited. I see much improvement on Ultra model so seriously consider to order it. Price is over double, but I see from this video that it is worth higher price. Thank You for this video.
Wow this is so interesting. I am learning how to put together, setup, and test a hydrogen-line 21cm (1420.4058 MHz) SDR radio telescope dish. The TinySA Ultra spectrum analyzer is one of the recommended test equipment items. Now what? This video is just what I need to understand what it can do. The R-scope is all new to me. 😎 Thank you.
Thanks for the heads up on the Ultra OUTPUT. You need to have two spectrum analyzers just to catch it. You could see it with a SDR tuned properly too, but you know that I mean. That spectrum analyzer was the same model that we had in tech school. I loved how fast it was.
Wow. Good to know of the leakage at ~ - 10 dBm on those higher freqs. This also means, that, if one was doing field survey work one might be accidentally jamming some of those freqs if connected to an antenna w/o a preamp in-line (offering some isolation).
In all your free time, please consider doing a video on Eric K’s latest brainchild, the tinyPFA. You just need a nano vna-H and some special FW and SW. Just when I was getting comfortable powering up the two TinySa’s and Nano’s. That guy comes up with some serious pieces of kit! Thanks as always
Thank you for the fantastic videos, I have only just joined your channel after looking for info on the TinySA Ultra and found your very informative videos. May I please ask what level these intermittent spurious outputs from the TinySA Ultra that you are seeing on your HP analyser?
@@IMSAIGuy I guess they are not a problem to the TinySA Ultra taking measurements, and only a problem if they cause interference to something you are trying to monitor/look for with the device, as you spotted on your HP.
The reason they give for the pass code, is that they want you to read the wiki so you understand the limitations of ultra mode. It is mentioned in the training videos linked on the Wiki page itself. The software is Open source under the GPL V3 licence which means it is FOSS (Free and Open Source) and so it will likely never have a paywall feature because it would be legal for another coder to change it and take it out. So it would be totally wasted effort. You may not be familiar with software development but the licences are pretty basic knowledge. Please do your homework before spreading speculation about pay walls.
yes, but what about your comments about open source. I do see the code for the original tinysa. maybe that covers the ultra as well? I'm not a software guy so hard for me to tell. I do know that Erik never gave out schematics.
@@IMSAIGuy that is true... the hardware is NOT open source. The software is though... I have uploaded the url several times but youtube keeps deleting it. The reference to the openn source licence for the software can be found on the FAQ page of the TinySA Wiki page.
@@reaverofcheesecake4073 yes, I know the reference you point to. I just didn't know if that covered the ultra or just the original. it would be very difficult to understand the firmware without knowledge of what chips are used as most of the filtering and processing is done in the hardware. the wiki does not have enough information. I did a reverse engineering of a schematic (I have a video) but was not able to find info on the new chip used in the ultra. any info on this chip would be of interest to me as the bandwidth filters are very different between the original and ultra.
Thx for the video...My Ultra is performing great (pricing considered) Ultra Mode not Enabled as my needs are < 800 Mhz.....Will the "Ultra Enabled" mode change (Better or Worse) my current 0--800Mhz Performance ?? .....Also, Once "Enabled", can I "Un-Enable" & Return back to my Current "Out of Box" great 0--800 Mhz Performance ??.....Thx again....
I appreciate this video. I was wondering about the Ultra Tiny SA sending signals to the dut. How practical is it to use isolators or circulators as suggested by David V. Would the cost be too prohibitive?
Hmm. Lo leakage. That's not great. I guess there's no amplifier/buffer between the tiny SA input and the mixer(s )? I guess one thing you could do is place a wideband amp + attenuator between the DUT and the tiny SA. As I said, that's not great. :( It is a $130 SA so we shouldn't lose sight of that. -10dBm is a lot!
I am confused, are there two different hardware versions of this, an normal and an ultra... or is there just one version, and you unlock ultra mode by entering a PIN? Old videos seem to indicate you just enter a pin, but then I go online to shop and some are being sold as plain, and some as Ultra (???) And how do you tell the couterfeits from the legit models? Is there a main manufacturer website you can buy from instead of some place like Amazon or Aliexpress?
there are two versions, avoid the first one and buy an ULTRA, much better. yes there are clones. get them from: tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Buying
@@IMSAIGuyYeah, I found the home page and the straight to the factory version link about an hour ago for $120. I'm still on the fence about it though, I wish it had more SDR features! I kind of want one to analyze 900mghz / 2.4/5/6ghz wifi network spectrum interference as I moonlight as an amateur wifi network engineer, and these same frequencies are also used for FPV drone RF equipment, but I also want to tune around the entire band too being a shortwave enthusiast. It would be nice if they had a built in speaker and a waterfall and some memories and a third SDR radio mode, or that you you could fire up in Windows and use it as an SDR radio, considering it can receive the entire spectrum without breaks in the bandwidth. I just found something similiar, the HackRF R9 module from Great Scott, so I'm pondering that one as well. They are about $150 on ebay assembled, if I'm reading the listings right.
lots of people like the hackrf but it is not a true spectrum analyzer with good resolution bandwidth, so it really comedowns to what is important to you. a fancy SDR or a SA
@@ErikKaashoek Yes I read that, but no mention of the RF output on the input connector. you need to add that to the wiki. It can be very dangerous to circuits. As one of my viewers commented, he thought the mixer would block the RF but was surprised it was -10dBm.
and congratulations on this device. the 800 MHz performance and user experience is what I had expected on the original TinySA which I was pretty hard on. This one I definitely approve.
the wiki does not talk about the uSD card, unless I missed it somewhere. I think it saves data as csv but there is a screen shot on the card as well and I'm not sure how to do that
User interface of Tiny SA The user interface on the HP 8591 has been a result of many years of most of industries spectrum users. The interface on TinySA is very different and NOT user friendly. Commands that you use frequently should be easily found, which they are not. The capabilities on TinySA are top notch, but user interface could be better. Have used all analysers on the market for some 30 years (calibration service) and this TinySA user interface sticks out badly. The advanced functions on TinySA are hard to evaluate. Phasenoise, frequency stability... Price vs capabilities is just superb.
Hello, what's the difference between a spectrum analyser and a SDR? I have for example the SDR Play RSP1A. Since I am able to see the spectrum I think it should be the same or?
Proper spectrum analysers have added features, are calibrated etc. If you just need to see the spectrum you can use an SDR and some software that will emulate a spectrum display.
A SDR is mainly for reception and decoding. A spectrum analyzer is for checking and comparing signal levels. You can also view a massive amount of spectrum to hunt for a signal. A radio vs a piece of test equipment.
re: "what's the difference between a spectrum analyser and a SDR?" Spec AN has a swept LO and different BW filters in the IF. And an SDR does an A/D conversion THEN an FFT on the incoming signal and filtering is done in software, on the FFT signal.
So many words for nothing. Take a look to the dynamic, the phase noise of the first oscillator and intermodulatoin distortion when applying a two tone. At least look to minimal resolution.
With the signal generator, I have ordered a few low-pass filters to take out the harmonics. From Ali Baba, they are about $25 and available in a range of frequencies from HF to 1 GHz. The low pass filters only need to be roughly around the pass signal as the second harmonic is twice the source. So a 500 MHz low pass filter is good from a bit above 250 MHz to a bit below 500 MHz. Thus, not many are needed for most applications.
The TinySA and the signal generator are great value and quite useful as you show. A very useful video.
In Ultra mode the filter will not help. below 800 MHz just turn off ultra mode and there is no problem Above 1 GHz the TinySA Ultra creates harmonics at all frequencies. so there is no way to filter them out.
The passcode is there so that the people enabling the "ultra" mode would read the caveats of using it.
people can still read?
@@IMSAIGuy 😁😁
That was my first guess.... potentially reduces support calls.
@@IMSAIGuy RTFM mode. LOL!
Vow. I have Tiny SA and main weakness is minimal resolution filter 3kHz which offers radio modulations measurements very limited. I see much improvement on Ultra model so seriously consider to order it. Price is over double, but I see from this video that it is worth higher price. Thank You for this video.
Wow this is so interesting. I am learning how to put together, setup, and test a hydrogen-line 21cm (1420.4058 MHz) SDR radio telescope dish. The TinySA Ultra spectrum analyzer is one of the recommended test equipment items. Now what? This video is just what I need to understand what it can do. The R-scope is all new to me. 😎 Thank you.
This refreshed some of my rusty memory 😀
Thanks for the heads up on the Ultra OUTPUT. You need to have two spectrum analyzers just to catch it. You could see it with a SDR tuned properly too, but you know that I mean.
That spectrum analyzer was the same model that we had in tech school. I loved how fast it was.
It was the gold standard in the 90's
Interesting video, thank you. Looks like a job for an isolator or a circulator and a dummy load - minus 10 dBm is horrible. Regards, David
That was quick !...cheers.
Wow. Good to know of the leakage at ~ - 10 dBm on those higher freqs. This also means, that, if one was doing field survey work one might be accidentally jamming some of those freqs if connected to an antenna w/o a preamp in-line (offering some isolation).
In all your free time, please consider doing a video on Eric K’s latest brainchild, the tinyPFA. You just need a nano vna-H and some special FW and SW. Just when I was getting comfortable powering up the two TinySa’s and Nano’s. That guy comes up with some serious pieces of kit! Thanks as always
Looked at that. was not really interested.
nice doodad, a must have for all...
If you add internal attenuation to the Tiny SA Ultra does it affect the level of the spurs you see from it that are only some -10 dBm down?
Thank you for the fantastic videos, I have only just joined your channel after looking for info on the TinySA Ultra and found your very informative videos.
May I please ask what level these intermittent spurious outputs from the TinySA Ultra that you are seeing on your HP analyser?
they are -10dBm. quite large. between 977 and 1777 MHz
@@IMSAIGuy I guess they are not a problem to the TinySA Ultra taking measurements, and only a problem if they cause interference to something you are trying to monitor/look for with the device, as you spotted on your HP.
@@getcartercarpark. well yes, but the 'problem' might be blowing up something.
The reason they give for the pass code, is that they want you to read the wiki so you understand the limitations of ultra mode. It is mentioned in the training videos linked on the Wiki page itself. The software is Open source under the GPL V3 licence which means it is FOSS (Free and Open Source) and so it will likely never have a paywall feature because it would be legal for another coder to change it and take it out. So it would be totally wasted effort. You may not be familiar with software development but the licences are pretty basic knowledge. Please do your homework before spreading speculation about pay walls.
that would be a big change. please send a link to the code. please find a schematic. you may be thinking of the nanovna.
@@IMSAIGuy also, m.ruclips.net/video/xFD34qUc2PA/видео.html... around 3:20 it is explained.
yes, but what about your comments about open source. I do see the code for the original tinysa. maybe that covers the ultra as well? I'm not a software guy so hard for me to tell. I do know that Erik never gave out schematics.
@@IMSAIGuy that is true... the hardware is NOT open source. The software is though... I have uploaded the url several times but youtube keeps deleting it. The reference to the openn source licence for the software can be found on the FAQ page of the TinySA Wiki page.
@@reaverofcheesecake4073 yes, I know the reference you point to. I just didn't know if that covered the ultra or just the original. it would be very difficult to understand the firmware without knowledge of what chips are used as most of the filtering and processing is done in the hardware. the wiki does not have enough information. I did a reverse engineering of a schematic (I have a video) but was not able to find info on the new chip used in the ultra. any info on this chip would be of interest to me as the bandwidth filters are very different between the original and ultra.
Thx for the video...My Ultra is performing great (pricing considered) Ultra Mode not Enabled as my needs are < 800 Mhz.....Will the "Ultra Enabled" mode change (Better or Worse) my current 0--800Mhz Performance ?? .....Also, Once "Enabled", can I "Un-Enable" & Return back to my Current "Out of Box" great 0--800 Mhz Performance ??.....Thx again....
they say enabling does not effect the lower band
yes you can un-enable
I suspect he does not want the device to be judged on the performance in ultra mode. So he makes sure you need to go through some hops to enable it.
Show us zero span mode on the ultra, that is proper way to measure peak power
the trivial gate for ultra mode sounds like an ITAR/export regulations thing
all the nuke sites had to have a code. the generals thought it would take too long and set all codes to 0000
I appreciate this video. I was wondering about the Ultra Tiny SA sending signals to the dut. How practical is it to use isolators or circulators as suggested by David V. Would the cost be too prohibitive?
isolators in that frequency range are probably too expensive even used.
Nice video. What is that tiny signal generator you used ?
ruclips.net/video/r8ofczZHt-g/видео.htmlsi=oJOP6utciAEoXMaU
Hmm. Lo leakage. That's not great. I guess there's no amplifier/buffer between the tiny SA input and the mixer(s )? I guess one thing you could do is place a wideband amp + attenuator between the DUT and the tiny SA. As I said, that's not great. :( It is a $130 SA so we shouldn't lose sight of that. -10dBm is a lot!
it needs a low pass filter before the mixer to block the Lo
So... looking at the comments, it looks like you could experiment with filtering the input for another video.
I wonder if you terminated that CAL port if that wouldn't get rid of the spurious products.
nope
I am confused, are there two different hardware versions of this, an normal and an ultra... or is there just one version, and you unlock ultra mode by entering a PIN? Old videos seem to indicate you just enter a pin, but then I go online to shop and some are being sold as plain, and some as Ultra (???) And how do you tell the couterfeits from the legit models? Is there a main manufacturer website you can buy from instead of some place like Amazon or Aliexpress?
there are two versions, avoid the first one and buy an ULTRA, much better. yes there are clones. get them from: tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Buying
@@IMSAIGuyYeah, I found the home page and the straight to the factory version link about an hour ago for $120. I'm still on the fence about it though, I wish it had more SDR features!
I kind of want one to analyze 900mghz / 2.4/5/6ghz wifi network spectrum interference as I moonlight as an amateur wifi network engineer, and these same frequencies are also used for FPV drone RF equipment, but I also want to tune around the entire band too being a shortwave enthusiast.
It would be nice if they had a built in speaker and a waterfall and some memories and a third SDR radio mode, or that you you could fire up in Windows and use it as an SDR radio, considering it can receive the entire spectrum without breaks in the bandwidth.
I just found something similiar, the HackRF R9 module from Great Scott, so I'm pondering that one as well. They are about $150 on ebay assembled, if I'm reading the listings right.
it does waterfall: tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.DISPLAY
@@IMSAIGuy What do you think?
ruclips.net/video/alrFbY5vxt4/видео.html
lots of people like the hackrf but it is not a true spectrum analyzer with good resolution bandwidth, so it really comedowns to what is important to you. a fancy SDR or a SA
Many thanks. My original thought is that Local oscillator leakage is common in many receivers including spectrum analyzers.
the spectrum analyzers usually have a low pass/band pass filter in the front that keeps the high freq Lo out.
@@IMSAIGuy As the wiki states, in Ultra mode the input low pass filter is disabled, and it goes to harmonic mode above 5.3GHz
@@ErikKaashoek Yes I read that, but no mention of the RF output on the input connector. you need to add that to the wiki. It can be very dangerous to circuits. As one of my viewers commented, he thought the mixer would block the RF but was surprised it was -10dBm.
and congratulations on this device. the 800 MHz performance and user experience is what I had expected on the original TinySA which I was pretty hard on. This one I definitely approve.
the wiki does not talk about the uSD card, unless I missed it somewhere. I think it saves data as csv but there is a screen shot on the card as well and I'm not sure how to do that
User interface of Tiny SA
The user interface on the HP 8591 has been a result of many years of most of industries spectrum users. The interface on TinySA is very different and NOT user friendly. Commands that you use frequently should be easily found, which they are not. The capabilities on TinySA are top notch, but user interface could be better.
Have used all analysers on the market for some 30 years (calibration service) and this TinySA user interface sticks out badly.
The advanced functions on TinySA are hard to evaluate. Phasenoise, frequency stability...
Price vs capabilities is just superb.
Is it a camera artifact or is the Tiny SA Ultra's graticule horizontally wavy? I don't see any of that on your HP.
camera artifact
Hello, what's the difference between a spectrum analyser and a SDR? I have for example the SDR Play RSP1A. Since I am able to see the spectrum I think it should be the same or?
no, there is more filtering and the resolution bandwidth is much better
Proper spectrum analysers have added features, are calibrated etc. If you just need to see the spectrum you can use an SDR and some software that will emulate a spectrum display.
A SDR is mainly for reception and decoding. A spectrum analyzer is for checking and comparing signal levels. You can also view a massive amount of spectrum to hunt for a signal.
A radio vs a piece of test equipment.
re: "what's the difference between a spectrum analyser and a SDR?"
Spec AN has a swept LO and different BW filters in the IF.
And an SDR does an A/D conversion THEN an FFT on the incoming signal and filtering is done in software, on the FFT signal.
Any recommendations for a spectrum analyser on a hifi set? For the fun of it.
search eBay for 'audio spectrum analyzer' there are many to choose from. about $20 to $100
Mine has everything BUT the enable Ultra mode, its also version 3.1
there are different models. the hardware is different on the 'ultra' model
Can the TinaSA Ultras' uSD card slot save data, or screenshots?
Thanks again!
I think csv format data
@@IMSAIGuy Screenshots and configuration setups beyond the number of RAM slots.
Yes. Both. Look at the playlist. I have a video on that
Can this tune repeater duplexers ?
no, you will need an analyzer with a tracking generator or use a VNA
ruclips.net/video/pIdJaj7xEb0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/TbEK4v_3Xuo/видео.html
Have you checked out any of the products from Windfreaktech...??? I little more expensive, but worth it...!
no spectrum analyzers?
Zrób porządek na stole i pokaż wszystkie połączenia, byśmy mogli rozumieć, co robisz!
Hey stop complaining!
You get a look on a spectrum
and pay only the price for a set
of good cables. 🐸
I'm not complaining, just warning that this may kill circuits if you are not careful.
@@IMSAIGuy I aimed at other comments! 😀
You are doing an excellent job! Thank you , so much!
So many words for nothing. Take a look to the dynamic, the phase noise of the first oscillator and intermodulatoin distortion when applying a two tone. At least look to minimal resolution.
ruclips.net/video/0ELGDz3ibNg/видео.html
Crap