this talk is what gets me about crypto, both with bridge videos for past year(s) and now with this L2 "inherit the security" of eth L1. Devs, especially in multigroup devs discussion of bridges, there seems to come a time where they just agree on a mantra/meme..... I always wonder if there would have been less bridge hacks, if there was more open discussion and less "memes" to use non perjorative framing. Kudos to you for this talk.
still, supply / demand make Isirion gud ponzu Genuine question: Why gnosis chain instead of polygon? If "both are needed", you'd be stating that neither helps scalability. The network effect in Polygon is insane and gnosis has POAP...
yeah xdai/gnosis and polygon similiar. dunno how gnosis changed from xdai per ae if any. Polygon POS has always seemed more decentralized with Bohr and ------ and having matic erc20 staking on ethereum. validators for sequencing as I understand it? as compared to L2 with central sequencers.... Very refreshing video
Disagree with this talk's premise. ETH L1 will have sharding in the future, which will enable base layer throughput to increase substantially, especially if ETH becomes modified to serve predominantly as a data availability layer for ZK-Rollups. The whole point of using rollups instead of L1 L1 bridges is that alt-L1s have much lower security budgets, and Gnosis is no exception to this.
yeah the lightening thing too, I remeber listening to..... poon??? dunno bit bascally the lightening dev who was saying lightening was not really the solution per se, that was early on, then like every video after that "memed" again non perjorative basically the opposite. Thanks for your "openess" here, God Bless
The only reason "L2" is a thing is because of Bitcoin. The rollups on ETH are not "L2" because they are not protocols. They are services that has more in common with FTX and AWS than anything else. You just call it "L2" because you like to pretend you know what you are doing
ok I will byte : p setting aside the semantics as just defined for use of L2= arbitrum and optimism by stipulation....... and that both L2 are "blockchains" by stipulation if common usage... I do agree with you andthink really its hard to call them "blockchains" and ergo "l2" (since l2 = blockchains) due to the centralized sequencer, I have not read whitepapera yet, but like compared to polygon pos.... I mean polygon pos actually appears to be a blockchain at least, does have a multisig bridge, but it has never been clearly delineated that I have seen how arbitrum/optimism bridges are that much better than pokygons.... polygon has its on validator set, its own matic token staked(on eth) to run that pos blockchain, so polygon seems to be a blockchain...... to me seems more L2 than the "actual" "L2" arbitrum/optimism with thier centralized sequencers.... where I disagree is "you just call it L2 because you like to pretend you know what your doing" I would say that people here use the L2 Terminology, as it has been rightly or wrongly defined as that is just how people use it. I wonder why more people do not bring up your pov though, so maybe they are all "pretending" I swear I watched a lot of bridge videos back in the day, and there just seem to be a point were they were all kind of sitting there, looking at each other, and none of them would actually say the real problems that likely every single one of their bridges shared, so pretending is somewhat pejorative, and I would not use that term or analogy, but maybe I can't disagree with you using it..... come to think of it..... starting to feel like the matrix : p cheers
@@lherfel it just came out today that Coinbases "l2" will have KYC and since its practically the same as Optimism and Arbitrum they will have to follow suit, then i dont think people can deny anymore that Rollups are not layer2 they are services with more in common with FTX and AWS than anything else :) But i dont think anyone cares
@@fergus247 yeah there maybe 100,000 worldwide max that care? (wild ass guess) the 10 millions to billion will never understand issue even, and if they did would not care. unclear if arbitrum optimism will have to follow suit. If it comes to that, then like oil, US will have destroyed its crypto industry, and we will needlessy pay whatever jurisdiction that is not stupid. I do not think US that dumb, but if US oil is valid comparison, then they are.
this talk is what gets me about crypto, both with bridge videos for past year(s) and now with this L2 "inherit the security" of eth L1. Devs, especially in multigroup devs discussion of bridges, there seems to come a time where they just agree on a mantra/meme..... I always wonder if there would have been less bridge hacks, if there was more open discussion and less "memes" to use non perjorative framing. Kudos to you for this talk.
Agree Lee
ridiculous that he wouldn't mention these issues: L2's breaking composability and fragmenting liquidity
still, supply / demand make Isirion gud ponzu
Genuine question: Why gnosis chain instead of polygon?
If "both are needed", you'd be stating that neither helps scalability.
The network effect in Polygon is insane and gnosis has POAP...
yeah xdai/gnosis and polygon similiar. dunno how gnosis changed from xdai per ae if any. Polygon POS has always seemed more decentralized with Bohr and ------ and having matic erc20 staking on ethereum. validators for sequencing as I understand it? as compared to L2 with central sequencers.... Very refreshing video
Disagree with this talk's premise. ETH L1 will have sharding in the future, which will enable base layer throughput to increase substantially, especially if ETH becomes modified to serve predominantly as a data availability layer for ZK-Rollups. The whole point of using rollups instead of L1 L1 bridges is that alt-L1s have much lower security budgets, and Gnosis is no exception to this.
yeah the lightening thing too, I remeber listening to..... poon??? dunno bit bascally the lightening dev who was saying lightening was not really the solution per se, that was early on, then like every video after that "memed" again non perjorative basically the opposite.
Thanks for your "openess" here, God Bless
Azero is the future 😉
lol so the solution is just Cosmos and IBC like thing this time IEP
The only reason "L2" is a thing is because of Bitcoin. The rollups on ETH are not "L2" because they are not protocols. They are services that has more in common with FTX and AWS than anything else. You just call it "L2" because you like to pretend you know what you are doing
ok I will byte : p
setting aside the semantics as just defined for use of L2= arbitrum and optimism by stipulation....... and that both L2 are "blockchains" by stipulation if common usage...
I do agree with you andthink really its hard to call them "blockchains" and ergo "l2" (since l2 = blockchains) due to the centralized sequencer, I have not read whitepapera yet, but like compared to polygon pos.... I mean polygon pos actually appears to be a blockchain at least, does have a multisig bridge, but it has never been clearly delineated that I have seen how arbitrum/optimism bridges are that much better than pokygons.... polygon has its on validator set, its own matic token staked(on eth) to run that pos blockchain, so polygon seems to be a blockchain...... to me seems more L2 than the "actual" "L2" arbitrum/optimism with thier centralized sequencers....
where I disagree is "you just call it L2 because you like to pretend you know what your doing" I would say that people here use the L2 Terminology, as it has been rightly or wrongly defined as that is just how people use it. I wonder why more people do not bring up your pov though, so maybe they are all "pretending" I swear I watched a lot of bridge videos back in the day, and there just seem to be a point were they were all kind of sitting there, looking at each other, and none of them would actually say the real problems that likely every single one of their bridges shared, so pretending is somewhat pejorative, and I would not use that term or analogy, but maybe I can't disagree with you using it..... come to think of it..... starting to feel like the matrix : p
cheers
@@lherfel it just came out today that Coinbases "l2" will have KYC and since its practically the same as Optimism and Arbitrum they will have to follow suit, then i dont think people can deny anymore that Rollups are not layer2 they are services with more in common with FTX and AWS than anything else :) But i dont think anyone cares
@@fergus247 yeah there maybe 100,000 worldwide max that care? (wild ass guess) the 10 millions to billion will never understand issue even, and if they did would not care. unclear if arbitrum optimism will have to follow suit. If it comes to that, then like oil, US will have destroyed its crypto industry, and we will needlessy pay whatever jurisdiction that is not stupid. I do not think US that dumb, but if US oil is valid comparison, then they are.