The Pope Said What Now!?
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Disclaimer: On this video I'm sharing my personal opinion on a matter than some people may consider controversial. Moreover, the second half of the video discusses religion. If you are easily offended or put off by people who may think differently than you, you might want to skipt this one, and I'll just see you on the next upload. If you got thick skin then have fun watching, and feel free to initiate respectful discourse in the comments.
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/ themetatron
If you have very different ideas from mine here, prove that you
are different! Show you can handle disagreements with
intelligence and civility., rather than emotion and anger.
Freedom of Speech Clarification
Just for clarity, I'm not trying to cancel anyone or take anyone's freedom of speech away. That's not the point of this critique. I've always been a strong proponent and defender of freedom of speech. And have been very vocal about it. I'm in fact using my own freedom of speech to express my opinions on this matter. I don't think any man no matter who they are, is above criticism nor any action or word spoken by any man is above public discourse.
A recent news coming from Italy, it seems like the pope has used a specific Italian slur in one of his meetings with 250 bishops while discussing the topic of homosexuality within the priesthood. I'd like to offer not only my expertise as a native Italian speaker to see how bad of a word he used, but also to share my thoughts on this topic as a Christian man myself.
From the article by NICOLE WINFIELD
Updated 1:24 PM CDT, May 28, 2024
VATICAN CITY (AP) - Pope Francis apologized Tuesday after he was quoted using a vulgar and derogatory term about gay men to reaffirm the Catholic Church’s ban on gay priests.
The ruckus that ensued underscored how the church’s official teaching about homosexuality often bumps up against the unacknowledged reality that there are plenty of gay men in the priesthood, and plenty of LGBTQ+ Catholics who want to be fully part of the life and sacraments of the church.
Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni issued a statement acknowledging the media storm that erupted about Francis’ comments, which were delivered behind closed doors to Italian bishops on May 20.
Italian media on Monday had quoted unnamed Italian bishops in reporting that Francis jokingly used the term “fa**otness” while speaking in Italian during the encounter. He had used the term in reaffirming the Vatican’s ban on allowing gay men to enter seminaries and be ordained priests.
What do you think of this extract from this article? Do you think the coverage is fair or not? Let me know in the comments!
#popefrancis #metatron #lgbtq
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14:17
".pdf Files" is a popular euphemism if you're searching for one.
www.youtube.com/@jameslarson3355
apparently being gay is more than just having sex with a same gendered person. The catholic church thinks that aspect of homosexuality is also wrong and antiChristian. Effeminate men must insult their omnificient all loving deity.
The simple fact is that there homosexuals are OT choosing celebacy they are cloaking their proclivity behind the collar and then proceeding to prey on altar boys this has been what has killed Catholicism in the West, I was raised Catholic and see the church as being thoroughly corrupted by Satanic influence at this point...
Hey Metatron, till recently RC supported death punishment(till 20th century) so death for homosexual, also not everyone can enter priesthood since if u have done a grave sin u can't be in clergy sometimes even if u repent u might not be accepted by Chruch, i talking more about Eastern Orthodox, u had pretty liberal take even tho reading theology and Chruch Fathers u can see that punishments for homosexual is excommunication or death and OT literally says it, also does it boder you that RC is becoming more liberal as time passes and impact of Vatican II, genuine question.
Let's consider that the Pope is Argentinian... And every Argentinian speaks with 95% of slurs on a day to day basis.
Just like Irish...
At least we have creative slurs, unlike Americans that just drop the f 20 times in a sentence or British with their bloody this, bloody that 😅
@@damianbruno3507 You obviously have only seen our television insults. Consider this we got an offensive name for every place on the planet. For example Argentinian are Mexican Nazis.
@@damianbruno3507Oh, go lay with your goat.
@@damianbruno3507 or the Australians and the C-word.
You can take a man out of Buenos Aires, but can't take the Buenos Aires out of a man.
I was going to go with "You can take the pope out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the pope". In my old neighborhood, they would deck you for disparaging either parent even if the principal is standing right there. 👀
Exactly what I was thinking lol like I’m surprised he doesn’t say even wilder stuff all the time
Once a boludo, always a boludo
😂
Is that where the pope is from?
As an Argentine I'm 90% sure he was not aware of the vulgarity of the word and he was probably thinking in "argentine" and translating to the nearest word he could think of which just happened to be that one, not really realizing how Italians view that word.
Yeah but that speaks to how much that word is thrown around in the Vatican to make him think it's a normal expression
@@lizzzyz Who cares?
@@John.McMillan ???
Is this the word he meant? "maricón?" Or what Argentinian equivalent would you suggest he meant to use. The world cannot translate colloquialisms, so help us, please.
@@myjoyisCHRIST As a Mexican that's the first translation that came to mind 😂
I’ve got the feeling that the Pope wasn’t complaining about gays coming into the Church and swearing celibacy… So much as he was saying there was too much “buggery” in the seminary.
Bullseye 🎯🎯🎯
Buggery in the seminary surely not sir lol
Too much grab ass
@@Michael-x8e7j I think people would (and should) be surprised by how common it is, relatively speaking.
@@regandonohue3899is almost as pervasive as it is in public school.
Imagine 44 million Spanish speaking Italians all waving their hands and cursing like R Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket and you get an idea of the place
😂😂 cool.
When I was a catholic we had a priest whose first language was isiZulu, not English. He would occasionally drop vulgarities when preaching
That's HILARIOUS
Honestly, 'frociaggine' sounds like a lovely dairy-based dessert that will soon appear on the Olive Garden menu seasonally
new type of pasta? lol
It also sounds like a Frappuccino style drink spiked with rum.
Lol
The worlds first fruitfilled iced latte topped with..cheese😂
That's the italian language for you, every word is a poem. I remember wanting to eat "spaghetti vaffanculo" until I found out that Fabio was messing with me -.-
In defense of Pope Francis, when he said the "punching the guy who insulted your mom thing," he said that that reaction is normal, he didn't say it was good or right to react like that but that it was a normal reaction.
Imagine some considering a human speaking of whathe considers part of human nature as a weird thing indeed
Same thought. Also we did not get to hear the whole conversation and I am pretty sure the context was something along the lines of "if someone offends my mother I would have an urge to punch him, because it is natural, but as Christians we should resist such urges." At least that's what I would expect him to say. Not that anyone expected him to use the Italian Fro**** word anyway, so who knows.
And homosexual attraction is also normal
@@marianealonso202 No it's not, it literally isn't. Normal means it's the norm, the majority, and the majority of people are heterosexual, so it isn't normal.
@@AFVEH I was thinking the same thing with that clip. Perhaps he was trying to say that that reaction is normal for people to have, but that doesn't mean it's the reaction they should have 🤔.
In all fairness, it was a Vatican CoD lobby. Someone has to put trash talking cardinals in their place.
for some reason this make more sense now
They were losing the argument so they leaked the gc
CoD??
@@gerardsotxoa Call of Duty,
@@zombiedoggie2732 still makes no sense. A vatican call of duty lobby??
8:21 I think because by “openly gay” they don’t want people to be proud of their sinful tendencies, they wouldn’t make preist somebody who advocates for pre-marital sex
Right, openly gay implies an embrace of sin, opposition to church doctrine, and inability to accurately teach the Word on such issues. But a 'gay' priest is possible, they actually may possibly struggle less than a straight one with upholding celibacy for life. But I dunno, I'm not Catholico
@@jonasmendez7509 if the priest was jus experiencing homos. Tendencies, and he thought they were wrong and didn’t follow them then he would be perfect, if he did follow them and /or thought of them as good , then he would have to fix himself . Also about it being easy for a gay priest to remain chast , I would not say so, as priest commonly live with other priest , and not nuns
Oh, it does matter. In fact, one of the reason why monk and nuns are not exactly intermingling so freely in churches is to avoid temptations. We are human being, and we are just trying our best to barely avoid "sin".
Now imagine being a gay man, surrounded by men. It's like putting a monk into a group of nuns, which we do not do anyway.
I don't know, not sleeping with someone seems like a pretty easy thing to do.
@@illbill5904 if you're a male with a face only your own mother would love? Maybe.
Have some competence, and let the opposite attraction to woo over you? That'd be hard to refuse. Just because you're an old virgin doesn't mean it's always easy to be celibate for everyone.
@@illbill5904 Well based on the extreme progressives and the activist LGBTQ sex is all anyone does or is about. Celibacy isn't that difficult, but too many can't understand that and many lack self control.
@@illbill5904and yet many priests struggle with this famously
@@illbill5904 Tell that to the hundreds of millions that cheat on their spouses.
I can't believe the Pope is a certified gamer!
The pope is old as hell so I feel like that was definitely a factor in him not knowing about the word being offensive. Maybe it was normal to say it decades ago or when he was learning Italian.
@@anonisnoone6125 surprisingly, it kinda still is, though that likely depends on the region.
I have a few gay Friends and that's always the word they default to
He knows all the words of power!
I can only wonder which 40k Faction he plays, and whether or not that's heresy.
Well in greece we usualy use a similar word regardless if the other guy is homosexual.
In English, there is an old term "buggery" that would be analogous.
Funny I live in Canada but my mother is from Newfoundland and I grew up with Newfies and I've grown up with the word bugger and in the proper way
Buggery is not analogous. Buggery refers to the act of anal sex, without sexual orientation being a factor. Buggery means sodomy.
Reminds me of how the late Terry Prachett taught this cultural case of how words can change meaning 😂:
In his novels there was this fictional song that everyone knew, about the hedgehog.
The punchline was "...but the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.."
I thought it was like the letter for letter cognate for english’s Idiot in spanish. Much much ruder
No, that word has a general meaning of messing something up, it's only euphemistic. Unless you mean 'analoguous' for the sake of nothing but the pun, your problem with English is that you literally can't read your native langauge natively.
Since 1965 english language education has almost entirely been overtaken by optilexia borne of bad theory on learning, and so you don't ctually UNDERSTAND what these words mean, just glean from context how they CAN be used, and chuckle under your breath how they "mean" naughty things. Incapable of saying it staright liek an adult, in fact that's what "straight" always meant and "fae" behavior did NOT.
This naivism is terminal, 10% US kids don't even finish High School anymore with normal capacity for orthographic mapping. Meaning they literally don't even READ THE WORDS, they just guess what it MIGHT be from context. It's not dyslexia, it's systemic failure of teaching English speakers how to read ANY grammar, after the proper grammer teaching of Latin Letters was abolished in the 70s. John Cleese mocked it in Life of Brian but we're off WAY worse without it, and nothing replacing it.
The question was never about people who are secretely gay from what I understand.
It was about people who openly live their sexuality, which conflicts with the chaste and celibate lifestyle you'd expect from priests.
But you can be openly gay and not live your sexuality. How that differs from being straight and wanting to join seminar?
@@oskarskalski2982because once you join, your sexuality should cease to exist
@oskarskalski2982 Eh? Shouldnt that be obvious? Because as a straight man, you dont have the means to carry out your sexual desires within the seminary dorms. And that is what the Pope doesn't want to happen anymore.
Don't forget the correlation between that sexuality and conviction of CSA, overrepresentation is a fact. That's another reason the church, even aside from scriptural dogma, should have some wariness, especially with its own history of scandals that only affirm the correlation...
@oskarskalski2982 You shouldn't know your priest's sexual anything. It's a literal perversion of the priesthood to put yourself before God in such a way. It goes against your vows. Regardless of your sexual orientation.
The Pope Apologizes for saying Gamer words will be the next Apology
He didn't apologize AFAIK, the Vatican did. There's a difference.
Pope apology video?????????????
@@chase6579 No, it is the same. Same goes when Biden says something like "we will defend Taiwan", only for some WH spokesperson or Anthony Blinken to apologize and/or tone it down.
The vatican apology came within 24 hours...
Someone send him ukulele
Yeah, that whole 'vicar of Christ' thing was a bit of an exaggeration, gamer is more like it.
You can call someone a slur without thinking they are criminals.
Yes, but it usually means you're expressing the opinion that they're trash.
@@paireon3419 Maybe where you're from but my friends and I call each other slurs all the time and think nothing of it.
@@osier769 Yeah but that's a different situation/context and you know it. This wasn't some dude meeting with friends and shooting the shit, it was the Pope in a formal closed-door discussion with 250 high-ranking Cardinals in the Holy See, and the slur wasn't aimed at any of them in a jokey/friendly manner, and as Metatron himself points out you should likely expect less vulgar language be used under the circumstances.
@@paireon3419 I thought it was 150
@@chinchillaruby4170 Eh, maybe one of us misheard, I'd have to watch again to be sure🤷♂
The Pope didn't say he would punch someone in the face that insults his mum, he said the guy insulting her should expect to get hit and yes that's a totally normal thing to say. Everyone should be aware that something like that could be the consequence of insulting somebody, but that doesn't make hitting someone right.
Yup, he didn't say punching was okay, but there may be consequences if one is being an ass and the other already happened to have a bad day. He may not be in the mood to turn the other cheek but rather turn your cheek black and blue for your insolence. 😂 Again, it is not be OK, but it is still a natural reaction in some situations. Natural is not the same thing as right and correct, people can have a lot of habbits that may feel nautral to them (vices for example) but certainly are not OK in the grand scheme of things.
He absolutely did. He literally said, "if my friend here insults my mom, he's going to get punched". He didn't specifically say that he would be in the right, but he did say he would punch him in the face because it is "normal".
@@Giby86 "He absolutely did. He literally said, "if my friend here insults my mom, he's going to get punched". He didn't specifically say that he would be in the right, but he did say he would punch him in the face because it is "normal"."
No he didn't. You should re watch the segment at about 12:45. He said you should expect to get punched, not that he would punch someone. There is a difference. If you insult someone you should be aware that the other person could react violently, even if it's not ok if that happens.
@@fuselpeter5393 Again, no. I'm an Italian native speaker and the statement was VERY clear. He wasn't talking about some generic principle of responsibility, he literally said that if HIS FRIEND insulted HIS MOM, he would get punched. He chose to make it personal: he's talking about his friend insulting his mom, and getting punched in return. By whom? The Holy Ghost? I don't think so.
@@Giby86 "Again, no. I'm an Italian native speaker and the statement was VERY clear. He wasn't talking about some generic principle of responsibility, he literally said that if HIS FRIEND insulted HIS MOM, he would get punched. He chose to make it personal: he's talking about his friend insulting his mom, and getting punched in return. By whom? The Holy Ghost? I don't think so.
"
Well I referred to what's written in the subtitles. In regard to the subtitles my point still stands. Don't know if it's correctly translated.
Maybe he was trying to speak Vulgar Latin
I see what you did there :D
Ba dum tiss.
Lol he ain't speaking French
Neither a Christian nor fan of this guy, but here his only mistake was to apologize
So basically what you're trying to say is, you're homophobic? Because if you're not, that's a very much suboptimal way of expressing yourself that you used.
@@paireon3419 never apologize. The cancelgoons will hold both things over your head, will not firgive you and you show weak. There is no reason to apologize for words you said to a group, if a specific human comes to you with hurt you might, but to apologize to a group is a humiliation ritual that isn't productive
@@paireon3419 Why should people be forced to agree with your agenda? (or with my agenda?) Why can't people have freedom of speech?
@@paireon3419 Isn't the word 'homophobic' just a word that was made up by the homosexual community to discrimminate against straight people and mostly their religious beliefs though? I notice the homosexual community had no problems claiming the GOD given rainbow and the word 'gay' as their own when in fact, both stand for different meanings. You want the right to be able to stand up for what you believe... So shouldn't you allow others the right to stand up for what they believe is right and good?
@@paireon3419 Yes, if by phobia you mean finding it disgusting then every normal person is a phobic.
The issue is that there are a lot of gay men joining the seminary but they are not staying celebrate. There have been many scandal's involving priests getting it on and being caught. This is a very angering and sensitive issue so maybe that is why the pope said that word and that is taking it in the worst light. The issue is not sinners trying to change, it is sinners joining the body of the church and trying to change it or not trying to follow Christ. I thank you for you opinion on that and for the conversation.
I would say that a bigger issue for the church is the grown men with kids issue, not gay men. I feel like this is just they church trying to shift they blame to the sinners the hate rather the sinners they have been apologising for from he start.
@@alisontheanimal4009 80% of the children targeted by these priests are boys. If you do not believe me go check yourself.
@@alisontheanimal4009 dude way to move the goal post.....
@@alisontheanimal4009 No. One of the reason why I will never join the alphabet people is the fact that gay "culture" is perverted and rape infested. You can find statistics that range between 30 to 70% of gay men having been sexually assaulted which even assuming the smallest figure of the typically given range, is stupidly and incomprehensibly high. Any discussions of it get shut down with the usual assortment of fakeness between "Don't kink shame" to random accusations of homophobia. As long as the alphabet people defend the culture that results in stupidly high amounts of rape and in general extreme degeneracy, gay men joining the catholic church will mostly remain an issue.
@@derigel7662 Not moving goal posts just telling the truth. Look up the definitions before you start telling lies.
Thick skinned Christian here 💪🏻👊🏻 💯 thank you for years of amazing content.
Normal Christian *
*Normal Christian. Our skin is covered by the armor of God
@@KOCChristianHow narcissistic.
@@frankelliott244Thick skinned until you talk smack on their god and religion lol
cry leftist@@frankelliott244
Given the sheer amount of wolves hiding out with the sheep, all the scandals in the Catholic church these past few decades, the Pope has good reason to be concerned.
It can be very demoralizing for us Catholics who hold these temptations but try to hold harder to Christ's mercy in the sacraments when people with authority in the Church make homosexuality seem like it's not a big deal. The Church should be trying to bring homosexuals into the Church by way of Christs mercy, not in downplaying the sins and temptations that appeal to our nature.
Because everyone has a different combination of sorts, of sins that appeal the most to them, everyone equally is in need of the Gospel, and Christs Church. The temptation of homosexual behavior is the same, and isn't less severe than any other mortal sin. My brother, if you could pray with me today that laity and clergymen with these temptations might hold onto Christ and that the Church will lean away from this false acceptance of sin, I would be indebted to your kindness. God bless.
@@wes4736may Christ be with you and give you the strength to carry your burden. I hope you live a great life, and avoid sin to the best humanly possible.
Exactly. When our very pious parish priest left my childhood parish to move to across the country, a gay (not openly) priest replaced him. My Mom told me and my brother to not be alone around him. Apparently she had noticed that he was unusually friendly with children. Well he ended up getting busted with an underage male prostitute within the first two years at our parish.
Hey Metatron, regarding your question at about 9:00 and homosexual men becoming priests, I think that Pope Francis probably meant there was too much homosexual activity in the seminaries. I'm sure there are plenty of "gay" priests that live a celibate life but there is a reason all the priest jokes about altar boys.
I would bet money that most of that activity comes from people who never publicly acknowledged their sexuality before becoming priests. Moreover, having grown up Catholic, in Sicily, in a Catholic school, there was one instance of paedophila (I personally knew both the perpetrator and the victim) and it was a straight man sleeping with an underage girl. The problem goes beyond sexuality, and what they need to do about it is they need to stop scrambling to cover these things up and make the perpetrators face dire consequences for their actions. The reason those kinds of men flock to the church is because after becoming priests or otherwise becoming a part of a parish they generally find a safe haven where higher-ups are quick to cover up any scandals in order to protect their own/the institution’s reputation. The pope doesn’t have a leg to stand on, frankly. The people at my school were significantly more concerned by my (age appropriate) lesbian relationship in high-school than the paedophilic relationship one of their teachers had with one of their students. They never even released a single statement about that as far as I’m aware, even though we all knew and it made it onto the paper. Meanwhile, well-meaning gay or bisexual people were openly ostracized and mistreated, and this includes students and staff. I’m not saying this was everyone, one of my best friends at the time was an incredible priest (and he was punished for acting like a good Christian and trying to help me get through high school), but this was the ‘company policy’.
And the abuse of them is not completely separate from this as Metatron claims.
The vast majority of abuse happens toward pubescent males and then second place is boys and oftentimes the same perpetrator goes after both groups, yet not against females.
If it was just about people who want to abuse the youth then it would be 50% female victims and it isn't not even close.
And of course since straight men are the majority it should actually be 80%+ female victims but it isn't.
@@darken2417 I'm sorry but even if this is true (I'd appreciate some sources) I just don't think it's relevant. I'm not sure if you read my reply or were just replying to the original comment, but at the end of the day, the reason this is such a big issue is because of how the church handles it. The problem isn't people being gay before they become priests, the problem is that the church has always covered up these kinds of 'scandals' to protect its own reputation. That has always been the priority. They've allowed this to happen for so long, creating a safe haven for this kind of behaviour, because it mostly goes unpunished, in fact, people will scramble to cover it up. Which in turn just encourages more predators to flock to the institution. They expect that it will offer them protection, because that's the precedent they've set. No matter what you say, for the pope to take such a stance is laughably hypocritical, and not the solution. People would just go back to concealing their sexuality and join the church anyways. It's morally reprehensible on two levels:
1- Prejudice and collective punishment should have no place in the church.
2- It is a way to deflect responsibility, instead of actually doing what's right.
@@darken2417 Sexual predators that target boys instead of girls don't do so because of a sexual preference, but because boys are less likely to tell on them (due to internalized shame, toxic masculinity, societal pressure etc.). They're not looking for sexual partners, they're looking for victims to abuse. Sexual abuse is not about sex, it's about violence, power and control over others.
What i think the Pope meant by the punch comment is that the punch in the face is not an action you think about, it's just instinctual reaction.
Like that time Saint Nicholas punched the Arius on the face when the dude denied the Holy Trinity, and then later apologized for losing his cool.
The reaction is normal, however that does not mean it's acceptable.
Yes thats how I interpreted his comment as well.
He made a great punchline.
Remember when the supreme Pontiff of the Catholic church was just assumed to NOT be okay with men sleeping with men, and it wasn't considered controversial for them to say it out loud?
Yes. The previous pope constantly denounced homosexuality while living with his boyfriend in the Vatican.
Speaking for child work also wasn't controversial some time ago and rich people said out loud that they think child work is awesome. Some years before that owning slaves wasn't considered controversial. Maybe society is just progressing?
@@frankelliott244 Since the previous pope was a rather elderly man when he became Pope, I find that unlikely at best.
@@mondsgesandter Regression is not progress. If heterosexuality is not the norm in your culture, your culture is three generations away from bye bye time.
but heterosexuality IS the norm, Gay people are only a minority dude, let them choose what they wanna do.
their lives are not your business.
Sir, I am very upset with your introduction. I do not have thick skin. My skin is very thin and silky smooth I'm not a lizard. How dare you, sir. How dare you.
Metatron is a silkskinaphope
"What can I get you, smoothskin?" - Some Ghoul in the Capital Wasteland
This is RUclips, not twitter ;)
Comment Of The Day
@@immersion9880 Do you mean X
The Pope might mean that the homosexuals within the priesthood don't adhere to their vow of celibacy.
Yes exactly. Priests aren’t “straight” either. They’re not supposed to have any sexuality
Exactly. It’s about celibacy not identity
I suspect that's what he meant.
Fine with the chastity, but the laity aren’t worth serving.
Priesthood is their identity
Taking your sexual drives as your identity makes you a pig
I don't think the Pope is saying that men who struggle with homosexuality can't become priests, but that men who celebrate their sin can't become priests.
Yeah, religious people have this tendency of making up answers on the spot to try to justify what's said in their holy book, or just to defend their religion
@@jeanladoire4141
like you just making shit up right now?
@@Qwerty-jy9mj no that's just an observation of all the religious people i've met and seen so far, it's all imagination really
@@jeanladoire4141 Yes, and they are, most often, contradictory too
If you read the bible, homosexual tendencies arent sinful, but doing homosexual acts is sinful. Like having intercourse with animals. Again, you are allowed to think like a homosexual, but you need to restrain yourself. Same with heterosexual people, they can't just have intercourse because they are lustful, it's a sin too.
@jeanladoire4141
I'm not Catholic, but I can sorta understand what the Pope means. For one, if he knows that they're gay, that means they aren't holding to their vows (meaning he knows they are actively engaging in homosexuality) or they are professing themselves be gay. Christians don't identify with their sin. For example, you wouldn't be a proud alcoholic Christian, you'd be a Christian who struggles with alcoholism. Second and what I think is the major factor going on, is that its more like they are bringing more liberal ideologies to their teaching because of their homosexuality. Rather than being in agreement with the historical readings of the text, things are being re-imagined through modern progressive thinking.
Lol, as an Italian i understand that it was like a "joke" by the pope, an hilarious way to answer 😂
As an Argentine I understand that we just talk like that, but yeah glad to hear your perspective because context and tone really makes the joke
@@yoeyyoey8937 We certainly hear it at sporting events. You behave like assholes and you’re proud of it. Now THATS funny!
As a Pagan I see the humor in this too.
@@yoeyyoey8937 Is there a one-for-one Argentine Spanish word with the same connotation?
Still hard to hear it if you’re a homosexual trying to be a practicing Catholic. At best, your own Pope considers you a punch line? He’s connected to the divine in a way no other mortal man is. It feels horrible, to be frank.
The problem acording to Church it that: The person could be chosing the priest life just to cover the homossexual tendencies, that's not the purpose of that way of life, so, in that case, even the person will probably develop mental and affective issues, because, it's living a facede; The priest life is largely a masculine place, so, it's like putting a heterosexual and lonely man in a place full of women for the rest of his life, that creates issues with the celibacy (if two or more of priests with homossexual tendencies live together, things could happen). That's why it's not totally mandatory by the nature of the sacrament that a priest must be heterosexual, but in the practical sense, it's a problem to have a strong homossexual presence in the clergy.
Long, but Very Good explanation.
Hopefully all will finish reading it.
By past evidence it is also a problem having a strong libido.
Balance
I have to agree with this. "Oh, I will just do this and I have to be celibate, so that way I don't have to deal with the difficulties of being homosexual." That would use up a tremendous amount of Church resources (time, money and people teaching) in order to produce a failure for the creation of a priest. Someone who hasn't dealt with their personal difficulties (a good definition of becoming a functional adult in a non-biological way) isn't someone ready for deciding on making such a massive undertaking.
I had my own construction company and I worked in the field right alongside the other men, so I couldn't give a crap about vulgarity. People who do vocations that are extremely difficult physically are well known to swear a lot. It may be a side effect of the hard labor part.
My thoughts exactly. I would also add that in hierarchical society as a Church, there's a danger for people in high position to abuse their powers. And we know for a fact about the cases when men in seminaries were sexually abused by their overseers
This is all MatPat's fault, he gave Undertale to the pope and now he's a gamer!
How many gay priests are actually willing to acknowledge the fact that the Bible clearly defines homosexuality as a sin?
So is eating shell fish.
Everyone acknowledges it. In fact if you go to church a lot of people are quite eager to share their thoughts 😅
The shellfish objection is cringe, it was only about legal ritual purity not sin, Jesus made all foods clean, he made no such change on sexuality; absolutely incomparable to homosexuality.
Probably all of them? I mean they Choice is alredy Kind of answer to that?
@@killianmiller6107 "You shall not sow your vineyard with two kinds of seed, lest the whole yield be forfeited, the crop that you have sown and the yield of the vineyard. You shall not plow with an ox and a donkey together. You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together." You have weird rules no one follows, its a pick-and-choose religion.
The first time the bishops in Poland don't need to apologise to the catholics, but the progressive media outlets will go bonkers.
It's usually the opposite... about Francis...
Usually they misrepresent what Francis says anyway, after getting past the sensationalist headlines I have personally never seen him explicitly contradict the Catechism.
@@holypaladin4657 Yup. Francis is just as bigoted as the rest of the disgusting church he leads. He's just a bit better at PR than most of them.
@@holypaladin4657 He often goes into the area reserved freedom theology (not sure it's pronounced this way in English). Which is the mix of Christianity and communism.
Polish catholics smell communism from miles away. There is a history about it, that includes polish church martyrs...
@@crank1985 it is more freedom from torture murder and actual democracy and it showed up as a response to all military dicatorship, the pope is a fascist who hate those things which is why he support putin and russia and wants Ukraine to surrender
@crank1985 I think here in the US they call it Liberation Theology
The way you presented the idea of how the vow of celibacy makes it invalid whether you are gay or not is actually quite brilliant. Your reasoning is on point. Kudos.
The Catholic Church has always prohibited gays to become seminarians because the temptation to of a gay man to be surrounded by dozens or even hundreds of young (many handsome) men would be too much of a burden. Their experience has been terrible when they decided to "relaxed" a little bit. We all know the scandals as a result of that.
But there is a huge difference, considering there are no women in seminaries. Temptation for straight men will be much weaker than for gay ones, who are surrounded by douzens of men
@@arteotomiMexicoif you swear celibacy, you know what you're getting into. You have to make a conscious decision to engage in intercourse with a person. But I can see where you're coming from
Not just the Protestant world, Metatron, but most Christian denominations. Greek/Russian Orthodox priests, for example, are expected to be married (in fact how would they advise married couples if they've never been married?). Unless of course they've become monks earlier, but a monk priest is typically expected to conduct the Church service at a monastery
And yet all bishops in eastern Orthodoxy must be celibate. The Catholic church allows both celibate and married priests, but the married kind is only allowed in the eastern Rites. I find it foolish if one were to 'mandate' a married priesthood though, since both Jesus and St Paul advocate for celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom, according to scripture, but I'm not against it being an option.
@@zachj61 Clerical Celibacy is really just a tradition of the Latin Rite. It comes from the celibacy of St Paul. Priests being married is not a requirement in the East, it's just the tradition. Once someone gets ordained a priest, they can never marry. So either they marry beforehand, or they remain unmarried their entire life. Most people want to get married someday, which is why it's such a common practice to wait until you've already been married in the East.
@@kottekanin4006
Paul, not only he got rid of Jewish law, he invented the tradition of celibacy and said bad things about marriage. What a cursed apostate, who was arguing with Peter.
@@موسى_7 Blessed is the Apostle of the Gentile for correcting Peter’s hypocrisy. O most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul, who laid down your lives for Christ and beautified His pasture with your blood! Hearken unto the prayers and sighs of your children which are now offered up with contrite heart.
@@موسى_7B’’H truth being spoken
The argument seems to me to not be about people who have confessed about struggling with homosexuality, but with people who are openly gay and pro homosexuality to the public.
What is pro homosexuality even? Being for people being themselves?
@@boaz08 it's wanting more people to be gay ie what hollywood and the public school system are doing to kids.
@@boaz08 What is so hard to understand? In Catholicism, homosexuality is a sin. If a homosexual renounces that part of himself, there is no problem because we all have sin and should renounce it. But if they don't renounce it or even advocate for it, they are unfit to serve as priests. If they want to be "themselves," maybe they shouldn't follow a religion that forbids it.
@@boaz08right? Like damn that's a pretty loud dogwhitle.😂
🎶everythings a dog whistle
Every thing is evil when you want it to be
Just say theyre a nazi
"No im not" is what a nazi would say🎶@@brandon_crow1291
You brought up a great point, if you choose celibacy, what difference does it make...
Admitting homosexual men to the seminary and priesthood would be like admitting heterosexual men to an all girls School: a constant occasion of temptation.
But that's also in regular life. I mean "a Constant occasion of temptation" Is not exclusive to environment of priesthood, they have it everyday... The difference is that those who want to be Priest at last take effort to change/ surpress that part of themselfs. I mean they chose to try, in order to do good job.
I find it ironic that the celibacy rule ends up being a magnet for pedophiles who are trying desperately to not act on their sin, only to end up in an environment where masturbation is a sin. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why there are so many pedo scandals in the Catholic Church.
20-30% of Catholic priests are closeted homosexuals... and this has been the case for quite a long time...
But in the seminary etc. it’s an all-male environment, unlike everyday life, so it would be much more difficult.
This comment comes off quite MAPish.
I don't think being selective in choosing who joins seminary is hating them.
I think that in the way it's being done in this case, it is.
And why be selective at all? Especially with something that has nothing to do with the qualifications of a person?
In the early twentieth century the Jesuits forbade ordination of candidates who had more than 1/32 jewish blood. La Civita Catolica, the Jesuit journal, endorsed the deportation of Jews from Italy.
Do you think this is discrimination?
@@malafakka8530 Qualifications, you say? Having a predisposition to acts of sexual deviancy (a sin in the eyes of the church) is something that people need to address and solve before they should even consider any pursuit in becoming part of a religious institution that does not condone that behavior. That's no small qualification. If they can't get their shit together, they have no business being a priest.
Cause being selective with who want embrace god is the literal opposite of what the jesus philosophy claim, like almost every single expect of catholicism btw
Oh no its a south park episode. What do you call loud anoxious people who ride harleys?
Bikers
@@levyata8964 Naggers? Oh wait... That's "People who annoy you"
Bike wanker?
Good video Metatron! The problem with this (8:13) is that seminaries are male-only institutions. If such institutions retain a large minority of men with homosexual impulses, it naturally can lead to occasions of sin. Therefore, the flaw in admitting a homosexual repentant into seminary, especially if there are others who share his conflictions, is that it could organically lead to occasions of sin whereas seminary normally instills the opposite effect on men who enter it.
So in other words, it creates situations where it would be easy to fall to the temptation of sin? That seems to me what you’re trying to say. If it is, I agree with you on that.
I call it the inseminary problem.
My only response as to why exclude them is this, it is not wise to allow those who have worked in adversary into your house, even if they now promise to serve your cause. Firstly, it shows a weakness in resolve, secondly they could still harbor alterior motives and work within the church to further dismantle its power. Thirdly it could compromise the priesthood with further scandals.
As a former seminarian the reason why it matters is straight men who discern priesthood don't have to be around the object of their desires behind closed doors. You'll be living and sharing intimate spaces and thoughts with other men. It's as much for a homosexual's salvation as anything.
About 7:34, as a Catholic, I can say that the reason for avoiding seminarians with homosexual tendencies is a disciplinary decision in order to avoid creating near occasions of sin for people. If a seminarian already accepts that homosexual acts are sinful (just as any other sexual activity outside marriage), yet he is tempted by them, it could be unwise to put him in a position where he would be routinely sharing locker rooms and dormitories with other men.
well said
I am gay. When I was in college, I discovered a secret. It’s fairly easy to think of a straight friend as what he wants to be, and what he can be. It’s fairly easy to transform the desire to give him pleasure into the desire that he be truly happy and fulfilled. In fact, the second option much more attractive and life-affirming. The problem is that it causes strong feelings of admiration which are entirely new which can cause shame.
being raised Catholic is the cause of that shame because Catholicism teaches homosexuality as a sexual orientation is just tendency to evil.
So, believing in the churches theology about sexual orientation, causes harm and causes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The only moral choice for a gay Catholic is to leave the church and to seek to become a better man without her evil influence.
yes, this.
This was my thought too. Whether it's "right" or not, I can understand this reasoning from the Pope. Using the F-word, less so. But at least he apologized.
Exactly.
The issue comes to men openly identifying as homosexual and seeking priesthood. There is an element of normalization that comes with acceoting people as being gay as opposed to choosing the lifestyle. There is already a lot of contention as to recognizing people as being "born that way" to begin with. Identifying as gay is the first and biggest issue. The Church will never support that.
Being a homessexual is definitely not a choice, maybe people aren't born like that but I don't think it changes the fact that people don't choose to be homosexuals, having homosexual relationships and acting on your desires as lifestyle is totally your choice tho
@@mateusmaranhao2420- As a Catholic, and as a bisexual by definition (though not in public life to avoid being conflated with people in the pride movement) I'd like to share my own perspective with you.
Yes, our sexual proclivities aren't s choice, but they are still temptations. I won't insult your kindness towards people who hold our ideations, but when it comes to openly identifying as being gay, it comes with the baggage and expectation that you also engage with the behavior instead of working to fight temptation. And that goes for any sin.
Let's say a diagnosed kleptomaniac gets proper treatment and finds Christ as well, and is successfully able to curb the temptation to steal items, Should that person be allowed to become a monk or priest if he wants to and is qualified for the seminary? I think the answer would be yes, but let's say this person instead didn't get proper treatment, and he still wants to enter the monastery or parish life while endorsing minor thievery. Then that's someone who can't really be trusted in the role he wants.
A kleptomaniac can't control having their disorder, just how we can't control if we have our disordered sexual desires, but we can control how we react to our temptations, and so long as we have that much agency we should be held accountable for our sins and continue striving for Christ, even in our stumblings. When a priest, a bishop or a Jesuit comes out in support of pride, or tries to bring homosexuals to the Church by implying that homosexual behavior is less sinful than it really is, it really hits hard for people like me, and other people I know with similar temptations to me who truly do our best to rise above them and live a life of holiness and charity. Shouldn't we have just as much a reason to come to Christ as any other sinner?
I apologize for the long-winded nature of my comment, but that's just my perspective as a practicing Catholic who is technically enveloped in the LGBT acronym, as little as I want to be associated. God bless you, and never let compassion override the gospel or visa versa.
@@wes4736I'm not religious but what if you just put the gay people with the women instead?
@@wes4736 Your analogy with kleptomania doesn't work in this case. Just because you openly define yourself as gay, that doesn't mean you are open to having gay relationships of any kind.
Think of it this way. If the person you described before wanted to join the monastery and said "I am a kleptomaniac, that is my cross to bare," would you turn them away? According to what you said, you wouldn't.
Then why is it an issue if they are openly gay, aka if they say "I am gay, but I want to be a priest." Priests are supposed to be celibate, that implies this person does not want to enter any kind of gay relationship.
Does your god really want you to hide who you are from the rest of the world just to be allowed to worship him, when you're already willing to give up having an intimate relationship with another human for him? Is that not enough?
@@filipferencak2717Noooo. These priests have toooo open about it. Bordering on shit like, "Accept the gays, we are born this way". And by accept they mean to go down the slippery slope leading to the fact where calling homosexuality a sin would be debatable.
Also they've been, eh hem, intermingling with each other. That's when SHTF.
Metatron, I thank you for creating this channel. I am old now, but have been a lifelong student (and lover) of history. I also did a lot of martial arts in my youth (and had to speak a few languages in my career).
I have learned a great deal from you and I am grateful for it.
Lately I noticed that you are being abused as a "right wing extremist" and "revisionist amateur historian"!
I consider myself a humanist and 'person of the left' and am baffled by these attacks, which are as irrational as they are ignorant. I urge you to continue as you are and pay them no heed.
Popular culture is crazier now than Ive ever witnessed but history and its sources and methods remain.
Best wishes
No need to apologize for about 99% of things that are being apologized by someone these days.
I'm confused by your ambiguous statement, What do you mean? Did you mean the pope shouldn't apologize for being homophobic? Or Are you just speaking to the over sensitive climate into today's societies?
@@deaderthendead041 *No one* should apologize for "being homophobic". It's the truth.
1000% true. No need, let's get back to simpler times.
@@iuliannastasa6592when you are accustomed to supremacy, equality can feel like opression 😏
@@rvanhees89 That's funny coming from your side, considering you've had all the power as long as any of us have been alive, and any pushback or even people believing different things from you in their own heads is considered oppression.
He said what? *Looks at what Pope said. Dials phone.* Hello, based department?
oh puhleze, francis is far from a based individual
@fu102 he's more based the all noses you support
@@fu102 Yeah I'm joking
Yea, that's how you know religion is a literal sham. When you see most so called 'faithful' Catholics celebrating the use of vulgar slurs, that's how you know this is just a little psychological power trip game for them where they get to have a clear rule book, a nice scapegoat they can throw all their problems at , and a nice assurance that no matter how evil they are they'll be in heaven for eternity cause they follow X Y Z rule.
@@fu102 Pope is based, he supports nationalism, he supports spirituality, he supports fatherhood, he opposes feminism, and he opposes LGBT propaganda.
How about an episode on Italian profanities from a historical perspective ? :)
Imagine Pope Peter saying the F word to Nero while dying on the inverted cross. That would have been the holiest trolling in history 😂😂😂
Nero wouldn't have understood it because that word didn't actually exist yet. Or if it did, it was a Germanic word that Nero likely did know.
Oh, wait, wrong F word.
Peter also wouldn't have lowered himself to hateful slurs. He was supposed to be the better man, even in death.
We don’t know how was Peter really executed - Bible doesn’t mention it and the story with the cross and “Quo Vadis” line may be a myth
@@J3rs3y_G1rl
You must be fun atbparties, right?
@@J3rs3y_G1rl
You know this is just a joke, right?
4:05"He did use it, otherwise he wouldn't apologize for it" Nah, that's not how this works. Plenty of online scandals where people apologized for things they never did, just hoping to satiate the mob.
As soon as I heard about this, I new that I NEEDED to heaר what you had to say about it!
Certainly, the priesthood is celibate in theory. I suspect many of us know for a fact -- and many others surmise -- that it is not in practice. I think the pontiff is low-key recognizing this, while also tacitly expressing concern over the perpetual scandal that nobody wants to mention.
It's not a theory. Its a requirement. If you don't do it, you are breaking the rules.
Celibate means not being married.
@@PeregrinTintenfish not quite, celibacy is not sleeping with anyone. Either in marriage or in fraternization.
@PeregrinTintenfish Yes, celibate means no marriage. A vow of chastity means no sex. Though having sex while a priest would be sinful, it is not a breaking of one's priestly vows unless one is part of a religious order that requires chastity.
What scandal?
I am an old retired guy. My father’s parents were Italian. The first Italian word I learned was the Italian equivalent of the English n-word. Most of the Italian words I can remember today are the words they don’t teach in Italian language classes. Somehow, I missed learning this particular Italian word until now. I will add it to the list of Italian slang I will never use.
Thus when you visit Italy the locals will know you are a tourist and pickpocket ya.
I'm an italian, and this is hilarious and offensive at the same time.
I never expected the pope to say this but i can't stop laughing.
Same here. I think only Italian get the double reaction 😂
I can’t stop laughing that a Jesuit said it.
The main reason why the Church does not encourage men with deep seated homosexual tendencies to enter the Priesthood is simple. It’s similar to the military. One is entering a male space where temptation will exist for those with such inclinations and where heterosexually inclined men need to feel safe and comfortable around their brothers.
I think he was talking about someone openly gay and engaging in homosexual behavior that is different than someone who is struggling with same sex attraction. Those are very different cases.
Wrong, Church policy bars all those with homosexual 'tendencies', because being homosexual is considered an 'objective disorder' as per Catholic Catechism. Now most lay Catholics just sugar code things to make peace with their conscience, but that's the actual Church teaching.
I was once a postulant at a religious order right next to a monastery of priests and brothers that became a scandal due to SA of boys and men. While the Pope's word may have been politically incorrect, he is right that there is too much homosexuality in the seminaries and orders.
There is a well-based discomfort that the priesthood attracts gay men because it puts them in a position to be surrounded by other men. With abusers, it puts them in a situation where they have access to victims as well.
Women are not allowed in the priesthood due to symbolic requirements. For the same reason, homosexuals do not meet the symbolic requirements.
Personally, I believe that if celibacy was not such a huge issue, the priesthood would not be attracting so many gay men in the first place. Celibacy should never have been made mandatory.
This should not be.
Celibacy is mandatory because of religious, financial and traditional reasons.
I do not personally think celibacy is the issue. That’s like saying men can’t control themselves and therefore need to have a “legitimate outlet” like marriage. An outlet that would only work for heterosexual men, anyway.
The majority of priests are able to be priests without having affairs with either sex, and without abusing minors. I get the point you’re trying to make…that homosexual men join because they’re going to be surrounded by men, but most of those men are heterosexual anyway. How would it matter if they were married heterosexual men versus single? Unless the implication is that they all engage in homosexual acts because they are repressed somehow, which circles back to my first point.
In the end, the abusers would be abusers even if the rule of celibacy was changed. They would be abusers even if they were married. The best we can do is try to keep them out in the first place and limit private, one-on-one access. The only thing I can imagine it impacting is the creation of rare subcultures you hear about like the one that was in Philadelphia.
@@paulodelima5705 Do you think it was wrong for Peter to be married?
Technically Byzantine Catholic and Ukrainian Greek Catholic priests can marry so you already have technically Catholic Priests that can marry. The celibacy for non monastic clergy is not universal for all Apostolic churches as Eastern Orthodox priests (and the Roman Catholic ones before the late Middle Ages) can marry and only the Catholic Church has this prohibition and this the reason why the Church has much more problems with sexual scandals than Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Protestant churches.
You do understand the difference between homosexuality and the liking of young boys? They are two very different things. Homosexuality is two consenting adults, abusing underage boys is entirely different, it has nothing to do with homosexuality in the same way that rape has nothing to do with love. Let me make this perfectly clear. No one should be sexually abused. The Catholic Church should be shut down for their part in covering up tens of thousands of sexual abuse cases and protecting the abusers, and at the same time every single consenting adult should be free to love who ever they want.
Imagine putting a wolf, trying maintain a green only diet, in a room surrounded by nothing but meat.
Or a fat kid in a sweet shop.
Boo, bad analogy. Wolves don't have human logic.
Fox in the henhouse.
@@froufroufeatherstone6291nope, see my above comment.
Yup. LGBT doesn’t procreate, so where else is better to groom the next generation than a seminary? If a gay man feels called to ministry in the Catholic church there are numerous ways to do so from a lay approach.
They said it perfectly in a film called Mass Appeal: "a chaatity vow is a chastity vow, even if his love was cows"
Congratulations, that was an extremely respectful video! From a person who usually disagrees with some of your videos (but still enjoys them), I found this one particularly interesting. Keep up the good work!
Pope: "Quo Vadis, Domine?"
Jesus: "Away from social media...I mean...really....f*cking...away..."
Hahaha😂😂
I wish I understood. Just me, speaking my heathen Germanic language.
"On the twilight of life, the sky shed tears.
Knowing too well what lay ahead; Fate revealed.
Pale shadows danced as the night caught fire.
No turning back, one glance ahead, what was void now turns to red.
Responsibility discarded, a snake always sheds it's skin.
Push away the pain we cause, live to sin, we are...
Hunter/killer!
Blinded by our hate, deafened to cries!
Hunter/killer!
Only one has the right to survive!
Hunter/killer!
Faith in conviction of lies. When all that's left is a sigh, then we'll wonder why no one asked why?"
Hunter/Killer by Quo Vadis.
@@iivin4233It means 'where are ypu going, Lord?'
@@gaiusoctavius5935 Emoji can get translated?!
Personal opinion regarding celibacy and entring the priesthood...remembering the requirement to avoid the near occasion of sin. Like someone wanting to be a priest entering to train as a priest at a nunnery for a "strait" man.
The celibacy for non monastic clergy is not universal for all Apostolic churches as Eastern Orthodox priests (and the Roman Catholic ones before the late Middle Ages) can marry and only the Catholic Church has this prohibition and this the reason why the Church has much more problems with sexual scandals than Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Protestant churches.
@@fegeleindux3471 you have to be a bot
8:45 Because IN PRACTICE a "gay priest" will also choose to spend the rest of his life without sex *with women*.
Checkmate, Catholics.
Old person talking like an old person. That’s what it sounds like. 🤷
I don't think the pope means that there are too many same sex attracted men want to become priests. I think he's referring to the idea that there is too much same sex activity going on between seminary students. The priesthood has always been an outlet for these men to live chastly, but to have men being OPENLY gay in the priesthood, I think would be seen as promoting the lifestyle for those who don't take a vow of chastity- the same way some protestant churches are openly affirming of homosexuality and "gay marriage".
One of the most important lessons in the bible. Everyone sins. EVERYONE.
Except Jesus
Yeah but you are not meant to be proud of it.
@@AndrewMcCarron-i6i Yes and confession/absolution requires genuine repentance and the intent to stop it.
He called the Sin what it is ha
Yes, the Bible does a great job at making everyone feel guilty.
In Catholicism, you don't become a priest because you would like to, but because God calls you. The seminary's role is to sort out those who really do have a calling, and those who don't. Then it trains them for priesthood.
Many devoted Catholics who are also homosexuals join seminary, thinking that it can "fix" them, or at the very least, that they can serve God in a way that doesn't make them marry etc... But that's joining seminary for the wrong reasons. It means they're often not really dealing with who they are or what God actually wants of them. Not only are they not made for a job which is highly demanding mentally and spiritually, but they're bringing into it huge uncertainties about their sexuality, their calling, their identity. This can lead to massive crisis further down the road. In a role in which they have to guide others, that makes a crisis even worse and more scandalous.
As you said, celibacy is inherent to priesthood in the Western Tradition of the Catholic Church. This is indeed asking a lot, but it is a way of being entirely united to God in resembling Christ, following the teachings of Saint Paul etc... Any breach of this celibacy is very grave. Well, how are homosexual men supposed to remain chaste while being obliged to live all the time with many other young of their age, for SEVEN YEARS ? Especially if some of these are themselves homosexual. That's like putting a starving child alone inside a house made of chocolate cake, and expect him to not eat anything.
It must be stressed that any devoted Christian has his place in the Church, and a calling from God. But becoming a priest without necessarily having a calling, while setting unrealistic standards to yourself, at the risk of harming yourself and others is not a solution. The Church teaches that God calls people to better themselves, but never asks of them something they can't do. That's why homosexual people in seminaries is a huge problem. They're a danger to themselves, to others, and to they way we see priesthood. They mut be made welcome. They have a place in the Church, but seminary is not it.
In principle, of course, it does not matter whether a celibate man abstains from sex with women or with men. However, the problem in seminaries is the active homosexuality that has been promoted by some corrupt authorities. This is the reason that in recent decades, the Catholic Church has tried to cut down on homosexual admissions to seminary. Unfortunately, Pope Francis has left many of the most corrupt in positions of power, so I'm not sure how helpful it is to restrict admissions to seminary on the basis of homosexuality.
It's like that meme: "Cease this f-otry immediately!"
No big deal people. I'll bring this up with a work-friend of mine who's gay on Monday. He'll laugh.
"No big deal", tell me you are straight without telling me you are straight. Your friend is a pick me gay, by the way.
@@usuario12346 I mean its the same way the alphabet community believes that calling straight people "cis" is an insult. Seems like Robert here simply struck a nerve. Sticks and stones, my friend.
@@usuario12346 what is a pick me gay
@@creed22solar123 A gay man that acts to please straight people and says "I'm not like the other gays". Or, to that guy, any gay man who doesn't act exactly like he wants to.
@@noahboyd7589 When I first heard of cis I was like: "Did they invent one more gender or something"
I’m an American of German descent. I was born and raised in America to German speaking parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. The first time I was a gay couple , as a child, I asked my uncle,” Warum küssen sich diese Männer?” He said, “Weil sie Schwuchteln sind.” I began using “schwuler” for all gay people. I had no idea it was a derogatory word until it was pointed out to me in my late teens.
I can see how the Pope used it incorrectly.
The Holy Father is not a native speaker of Italian. He must have learnt that word on the job, by hearing it in the Vatican all the time.
Exactly
@@hiverbleu8878where is this documentary? Is on Netflix?
Not a native. But he is very, very well known on the language, so I don't believe he was unaware of it's meaning and in what context it's used.
We're so back
"Insert Father Maxwells speech form Hellsing abridged"
Then by that same token, why would someone entering tje priesthood even be announcing his sexuality???
Regarding your problem with the celibacy issue...this whole discussion was about OPENLY gay people trying to join the priesthood. How is one both openly gay and a priest is beyond me, but I imagine they are showing pride flags, calling for acceptance and what not.
Very based Pope Francis
Probably because they end up abusing the choir boys...
Sadly, he forgot what he is the Pope of the Catholic Church. What's why this conversation was leaked.
@@PseudonymsAreGovnoYaEbalGoogle - Not sure what you mean? Seems his feelings align with his god who was very clearly very against homo stuff, destroying an entire city of them! In fact, didn't he even wipe out all life on earth due to them? 🤣
No.
I was excommunicated out of my old denomination not because I was engaged in sex with anyone or planned to but because I insisted on saying I was gay rather than saying that I struggled with same sex attraction. That group says that homosexual attraction is sinful in itself and must be repented of. And it says that identifying as gay precludes one from being a Christian. They also take the position that one's inability to change their orientation is immaterial to the inherent sinfulness of the homosexual orientation in itself. Whether the pope vocalizes it or not, the logic of his position leads to the same place.
It absolutely doesn't lead to the same, in fact now that this sect cut ties with you, you should become Catholic.
Same sex attraction isn't a sin, sodomy is a sin. You should follow virtue in Christ.
Even if you are not practicing it, is it not a sin in the same way that Mathew 5 - 27/28 addresses adultery and the thought of adultery? I am honestly interested in your thoughts regarding this.
As a Catholic I would take issue only with the comment “the inherent sinfulness of the homosexual orientation itself.” We don’t believe the orientation is a sin, because sin requires consent of the will while tendencies are simply disordered temptations. So we believe it’s disordered but not sinful. Engaging in the temptation physically or indulging mentally like “looking in lust” is when it becomes a sin. I would like to ask, why did you insist on calling yourself “gay” rather than “struggling with SSA?”
@@killianmiller6107 because it just becomes a big game of make believe. It's a game that Christians like to play to make themselves feel better about discriminating against someone over something they really can't change. It creates the illusion that people have been fixed when in reality they have just been shoved back into the closet. The inherent dishonesty in the endeavor of hiding sin under the cloak of piety and pretend "repentance" of something that can't be change was more strongly condemned by Jesus than any sexual sin when he called Pharisees whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones. And the intellectual and moral dissidence created by such games boil down to mental and spiritual abuse. It's not about calling people to repentance. It's about making LGBTQ people invisible so that Christians are not confronted by the moral conundrums created by their doctrines. To use Jesus' words the whole endeavor becomes about washing the outside of the cup. And its about placing a burden on the LGBTQ Christian that the strait Christian doesn't have to bear. At least a gay priest sworn to celibacy shares the same burden the gay Christian has. But forcing a person to adopt language to cover the sin or an orientation which can't be repented of is a fundamentally different conversation because it forces the person into a more serious sin.
And that place would be 2000 years of legacy and counting. While i believe the more progressive ideologies of today will not survive the end of American hegemony.
I'm glad you talked about the whole language angle. In Brazilian portuguese, we also have a word equivalent to the f-word (if you are curious, it's a play on the word "veado" which means deer), and even though it is seen as a very big deal in many different parts of the country, in my city of Rio de Janeiro (and I believe the whole state actually) this very word is seen by the younger generations as something so common in everyday language, people use it as a synonym for the word "dude". Even women use this slur word to refer to each other amicably despite the word being masculine and referring to gay men specifically.
Not only that but many of us use this word to express surprise. So you can actually get banned from sites like Facebook for using this word even though any native speaker can tell you only said the most inoffensive thing possible and this specific word only happened to be there.
Non ci sono video o audio di questa conversazione privata con i vescovi Italiani riguardo i futuri seminaristi .La cosa grave che uno di loro è andato a riportare la notizia a Dagospia ,un noto giornale online di gossip.
My theory: The pope says that he supports the gay but in reality he doesnt give a shit about them but is scared of saying it publically because he fears losing many followers and/or getting hate.
My mom is not here anymore. If someone insults her, I'm sending him to her to try his luck. Actions have consequences.
Same with my mother but that doesn’t justify violence also because in a world where an insult can be meet with extreme violence, the strongest and most vicious win not the just, not who is in the right. Today you nay be the stronger tomorrow you might not be and you’ll be the one going somewhere.
The way the news came to Brazil, the translators reduced drastically the weight of the used word.
not really, we just don't have any "heavy" vulgar words since we use them all on a daily basis. via**gem tecnicamente é vulgar mas fzr oq se a gnt usa td hr mkkkk
As a catholic, I see nothing wrong in Padres utterances.
Also thanks for adding another word to the vocabulary I use towards my brother.
The LGBGTQ+ Community should hear what is said about them in islamic circles. 😮
According to Catholic doctrine, it is not a sin to be gay, it is a sin to have gay sex. So if you want to be a devote Catholic and are gay, you are already required to live in celibacy. From this perspective, if you're going to be celibate anyway, why not become a priest? So I don't understand why they are against it.
Edit: On second thought, probably this is related to the environment priests live in - in theory: not very many women around, which should help to avoid temptation. If you are gay, there is a difference there...
Have a gay relationship without sex challenge (difficult: impossible)
They are agains it because priest should not have ANY sexual orientation, not straight not gay. It's their Holy Vow that they must hold on to
@@Kingzcro
You can’t just shut down attraction. You can only decide to act on it or not.
Thank you for the context. I was curious to see if he even understood the nuance or what the appropriate word would be. I agree that there seems to be a mismatch between the language used and the appropriate level of discourse for a very important person.
I think the problem with the idea of homosexual men in the priesthood is not one in theory (Because I 100% agree with the theory, a homosexual man's sacrifice of celibacy is a sacred sacrifice), but in pragmatism. A straight man swearing celibacy isn't then going off to hang out in a seminary full of beautiful women. THAT would be a problem. So analogously, a homosexual man trying to keep vows of celibacy while hanging out in a seminary full of people he may find attractive (especially if there is a disproportionate, relative to the population, of homosexual men there), and people who find him attractive...would be like trying to have an abbey full of monks and nuns cohabiting but promising to be celibate. Its possible, but pragmatically makes it a lot harder for people to keep their vows. So theoretically, I think homosexual men joining the priesthood is very beautiful sacrifice. Pragmatically, it comes with additional temptations that make it much harder for people to keep.
There's also the fact that "gay" men (especially those who self identify as gay) who become priests may be more inclination to normalize homosexuality within the church
Nope, you can't be gey and Christian. Sorry. They are lieing to you
I honestly think celibacy in the priesthood is a terrible idea. That's why there are so many pedophiles in the priesthood. They all think they can go there to escape their impulses, and then after they've been there for like 30 years they slip up.
@@gabrielethier2046 that's because homosexuality isn't a sin because sin isn't real. This is not my opinion this is a fact. Sin can be boiled down to thought crimes, add thought crimes are not real, so sin is not real.
@@EiferBrennan Sins are not thought crimes, and you're just assuming they don't exist, when in fact most people assume they is such a thing as morally good acts and immoral acts.
I suspect there are a few issues that the Catholic Church is having with gay men becoming priests are that there are many priests engaging in relationships with each other or straight out orgis and they've done a terrible job at cracking down on these kinds of behaviours because they don't want the bad optics. The other could very well be how other churches have not only normalized it, they celebrate the behaviour. The Anglican Church for example flies rainbow flags within the church as a symbol support for the sin.
I don't think it's a matter of being hateful towards anyone, but once you start being permissive of sin, you essentially open yourself to the criticism of "why should you listen to the Church about morality since we can pick and choose what sin we find acceptable?".
"It's not a matter of being hateful towards anyone"
"I'm gonna label an entire group of people a sin for existing because if I pretend it's a choice I can avoid the cognitive dissonance of why people can be born into "sin". After all, a book written two thousand years ago by pre-medieval people can't possibly have any incorrect beliefs or superstitions in them!".
@@MagcargoMan Denouncing what someone does doesn't mean you hate them. So OP's statement stands.
@@MagcargoManThey are not born that way. Genetics can make someone more likely to be a certain way, but their environment also plays a huge role. It is silly to give gays a moral pass when things like drug addiction and alcoholism, even excessive lying appears to have a genetic link.
@@froufroufeatherstone6291 You sure are.
@@ItsKindaWeirdBro... I wonder if he denounces people who eat shellfish or wear clothes made of two different materials or if Mr "Not About Hate" likes to cherrypick his own dogma?
I have been censored a number of times on X and youtube for blatantly talking about the food that shares the name with a bundle of sticks.
The “punch someone who insults my mother” thing was about someone who insults the Virgin Mary. The “Mother” Pope Francis was referring to was The Mother of God. A similar occurrence happened at the First Nicene Council when Arius, a heretical Bishop, claimed that Mary did not remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus, and promptly got socked in the face by Saint Nicholas of Myra (also known as Santa Claus). Not saying a violent reaction was warranted, but once could argue that a punch to the face is the Church-approved reaction to insulting Mary, from a historical standpoint.
I think we should just normalize the slurs to remove thier power through popular useage.
Taboos by definition create evil by categorizing it. Removing taboos makes things mundane by normalizing it.
Also, a fun side benefit is that often these are the most hilarious words to say, and then we'd all have access to them. 😂
So now go and use the n word
Nah, if someone insults my mother they're getting a blackeye.
Well, "you're in the Hole_y See..." and Metatron chuckles. Oh this is getting better.
A lot of men with same sex attraction entered the seminary and openly engaged in the behavior because of the ease of access. It was/is an open secret. Obviously not all men in seminary, but it became a real problem. It’s kind of like letting a man into a woman’s locker room and expecting him to keep his emotions in check all the time.
It’s always better to agree to disagree and move on. That’s the best thing about individuality, everyone brings something new and interesting to the table😃.
I can already imagine some press going nuts if the Pope ever shouts "¡BOLUDO!" (he's Argentinian, after all).
Well, if he calls someone like Lia Thomas a "boludo" for example, he WILL get some press, I can assure you that...
@@MauricioRodríguezConcha Boludx or boludə it is, then. 🤔
Exactly what I was thinking lol
In this case the question is :
If Pope Francis had been speaking in Spanish would have said "No, ya hay demasiada mariconería"?
("Mariconería" could be the Spanish language equivalent to "frociaggine" in terms of derogative language or vulgarity and remember the Pope is native Spanish speaker).
The answer is probably not.
@@diegoferreiro9478 I would have translated the pope's "F word" as «mariconeo», but it's the same essentially... and in that case, yeah, the Pope wouldn't have had the excuse of not knowing its vulgar connotation.