Almost making a Wohlhaupter UPA-4 SK30 shank
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Follow along with me trying to make an interchangeable SK30 shank for my Wohlhaupter UPA-4 boring / facing head.
Sadly the part broke at the very end but I think the journey of processes and techniques was still worth sharing. I plan to re-make this part at some point with some changes from the lessons I learned here. 
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Bummer dude! I was wondering about the temper. Live and learn I guess.
Grinder is fantastic, thanks for sharing
Cheers
Yeah I made some assumptions and found out the hard way this time. Thanks for watching!
Interessante seria ter o desenho todo desta ferramenta , da cabeça sei que são muitas pecas, mas muitas partes do mundo não temos como ter uma , devido a impostos absurdos .
I thought you did a good job and the courage to share your video , give it another try it will be better 🤙🏼
Thanks Jason, I felt like I'd let others learn from my mistakes. Next one will be better for sure!
@@ED_TMaybe add a radius where the taper meets the flange and add a radius where the taper turns into the round drawbar end, it will help againta cracking
Sorry it broke. The hard turning inserts worked like a champ. The next time you try, put the piece in the middle of the vice to stop it canting and support the rim while you machine the dowel holes. Holding it only with the v block is asking for it to slip from the side load. Same for when you mill the slots. Put it in the middle. Thx for sharing on Reddit.
I didn’t think to support the rim, thanks for the suggestion! When milling the slots I put the part on the side to have it contact the bottom of the vise, but if I put a parallel under it I could indeed clamp the part in the middle
Ok so the differential screw is a M20-1.5 pitch and the other end is a 16mm- 2.5 pitch and then two 10mm guide pins 40mm apart ? If this is the correct Wohlhaupter differential screw then I would like to modify my UPA4 s/5 with an integrated shank to the removable shank like the newer heads could be equipped with. Just ordered some inserts for turning down that hardened shank. Hope it’s soft enough to drill and tap the center hole and the two 10 mm pins. I will definitely harden and temper it. ( It’s just a R8 )
But this setup is what allows them to operate in both directions. Otherwise the threaded shanks can back out making a real mess. I’m not sure how this will translate as the R8 has the smaller 7/16”-20 drawbar threads.. 🤔wonder if the Allen key would even fit through it.. or maybe use larger pins and a smaller center screw with a running fit shoulder ?
This one’s gonna test me.
I don’t know if the differential screw is the same size for the larger boring heads, it might be larger. Drilling in the hardened shank might be possible but tapping it sounds like a lot of trouble. Good luck!
Jason I have the same problem as you. Did you succeed in modifying your head? Any suggestions?
Awesome video thanks, I also believe tempering would have solved this. You’re very good
Glad you enjoyed the video!
I was wondering about when you were going to temper it. 😢 I have several of the 2 & 3 sizes of the Wohlhaupter universal heads made under license here in Japan. The taper capability is pretty limited in comparison to the Tree design heads, and very dependent on a precision adjustable down-feed, those Tree units can really can do tapers easily. I think they are harder to find than the Wohlhaupter style though.
Yeah I've read the manual how to do angles with the Wohlhaupter but I'm not sure how well that will work in my Bridgeport. The Tree heads are really cool but whenever I need to mill a large taper I usually use the rotary table and tilt the milling head.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Such a bloody shame that draw thread piece broke off. After all that work, especially having to make the blank a second time. It would have been nice to see where the heat treatment distortion fouled it up, as you machined everything to size after heat treating it. That has me really confused. So next time a new oven to get the part up to temperature in a more even way, and would you consider making the oven an electric one? Also would an oil quench be better for less distortion purposes? Given the size of the piece of material those things need to be considered think. And of course if you are going to temper it this time an electric oven is far easier to control the way it heats to the max temp you want, AND let's the heat soak into the metal for as long as you want it to. Gas heating to my mind is just far too unpredictable. Good luck with the next attempt, and please bring us along for the ride again! Cheers from the UK
Would you like to share with me the information what kind of grinding stone you used here? I am searching for acceptable grinding stones a longer time now, but except very expensive ones (with the rist they don't suite my needs also) I can't find a proper one.
I just use basic stones meant for handheld die grinders, locally in the store I buy them for about 2-3 EUR per piece. They have a 6mm shank which I glued into an arbor with a larger diameter for better rigidity. It's very basic but it seems to work.
@@ED_T thx!
Hate that broke, was wondering if you tempered it, guess got that answer, you seem to be more than capable, so sure your next try will be a winner 🏆 🥇 🏅
Why not using directly heat treated alloy like 30CND8 or 40CMD8?
You won't have the same surface hardness, but less risk of deformation.
And you can re-treat them, they will be better than C45 for deformation risk. Still have to temper them, so electric owen mandatory.
I don’t doubt that to be the case, but I can’t easily get my hands on any alloy I want since I’m not a business. As far as steels go I have easy access to mild steel, C45k and 42CrMo4. Other alloys would need to happen by chance. For next time I do want to build a small tempering oven first and temper the part before final machining. That way I can do the slots and holes after the warping too so they line up better.
Regardless of the result nice part. I'm really impressed with the taper grinding quality from your setup with that long and relatively thin extension you build. I was expecting some chatter marks on the taper but it looks so good.
Thanks! I made it as short as possible. I’d like to have made the bar bigger but the spindle can only clamp 1/2” so that’s my limit there unfortunately
Can you tell me what the thread sizes and lengths are on the differential screw, also the hole depth in the body of the head?
Hello,
are you interested in selling the old MK4 shank?
Greetings from Germany…..
I would rather keep that, in case I get a machine that it can be used in or if I need to sell the head in the future. Sorry!
Thought i was loosing it when the part lost its tip and then came back and you switched to multifix now and again. Then i realised. Glad i found your channel, great work.
Yeah I have a different tool post on the compound slide. The multifix is mounted to a solid block that I can change out quickly in place of the compound.
A great project, looking forward to seeing the Wohlhaupter in action. Thanks for sharing the info on the inserts you used on the hardened steel. They worked very well and I will have to get some.
No problem Jerry, I still haven't found a tougher insert.
The workpiece was likely 55+ HRC when I used the inserts.
When I re-make this adapter I'll machine it after it's tempered back significantly and more common inserts should work. That will also solve the distortion problem I had now
Hi great video just wondering what type of cutting tools and tips you use thank you in advance PAUL from Australia 🇦🇺 Hoo Roo
Hello Paul, thanks for your question!
I've just checked in my drawer and I have a couple dozen different kinds of inserts that I've collected over the years. Some I use more than others of course but I can't break down all of them in a comment here unfortunately.
In this video I've showed one with a very specific use case for hardened materials. Whenever there's something unconventional about tools that I use I try to remember to show it but that doesn't always happen.
What I can tell you right now is that name brand inserts and holders are much better than the no name import stuff. Look up the feeds, speeds, depth of cut and application material for whatever insert you end up with and you should be good.
Best regards from Belgium 🇧🇪
Hi thanks and great to hear back from you 🇦🇺🍻
You only have to use cementing steel, otherwise it's a waste of work. Cement the workpiece after turning and then harden it
I don't have the means of cementing steel myself at the moment
very good boring head
I haven’t used it yet but I have no doubt
Nice work, is there a reason you dont talk to the audience?
In short, English is not my first language and I’m much better at writing it than speaking it spontaneously. In the future I may start talking though, it depends on how I’m feeling
Hey...
Hello!
I was surprised that you didn't start the part after hardening. Since this steel has a surface hardness of up to 58 HRC, it needs to be tempered at around 550-650 degrees with a long holding time. It is also not clear to me what the 16 mm diameter is good for. It is probably just an exemption for grinding the series parts. A larger corner radius would certainly be better at this point. With the cone, it would certainly be accurate enough even with turning. You have to check the correct angle in the holder anyway. You can do this very well with a marker on the cone. Apart from that, your machines look quite good.
The 16mm reduction is part of an existing shank I was copying and it worked quite well as a relief area for the grinding wheel. Cones can be turned accurately but I prefer grinding them. If you look at commercial holders they are all ground, not turned. I will have to figure out something for tempering to be able to reach those temperatures somewhat consistently
@@ED_T I know that all the holders you can buy are ground, and if you have a good cylindrical grinding machine, it's also easier. We also had a Studer cylindrical grinding machine in my department, but we still turned hardened parts often enough. Very often with CBN inserts, which are very expensive. But of course the spindle bearing and the guides of the lathe have to be in good condition. At the moment I can't think of a device that can hold 500-600 degrees reasonably accurately for an hour. Apart from perhaps trying to maintain the temperature with a measuring device and the appropriate gas setting, or you could go to a small workshop that has a hardening oven. I would definitely avoid the sharp inner corners of the 17 mm diameter.
Are you talking Farenheight or Celcius ?
@@Andrew_Fernie Celsius
You can only really do tapers if the Z feed is synchronised with the spindle rotation.
This means that you can easily bore tapers on a CNC mill, but less readily on a manual one.
I have actually done it, as my mill is CNC-converted.
I own a Tree head too, but other than doing tapers it's not a patch on the Wohlhaupter.
Thanks for the insight, the manual mentioned cutting tapers. In my case it’s a bridgeport with 3 feed selections. I’ll have a look what angles it can do with those
@@ED_T If your UPA4 has 4 possible feed rates (like mine has) then, combined with the 3 quill feed rates, that's 12 possible tapers.
In an ideal world they would include 7/24, MT3, MT4 and 8 degrees for ER collets. But I bet they don't...
I believe the way it works on mine is that each one of the 12 buttons on the feed ring represent something like 0.02mm feed per revolution. So if all buttons were pressed the slide would advance 12 times 0.02mm per revolution. That would mean 12 different feed rates. I’m not 100% on what the feed rates of the auto quill feed has exactly but it would presumably be mixing metric and imperial feed rates which might result in some funny angles.
Something else that might be interesting is to mount a stepper motor to the sensitive feed wheel of the quill with an encoder on the spindle, then the feedrate can be whatever you want and by extension whatever angle you want.
Either way, I prefer doing tapers in the lathe where I can use my grinder which I can indicate.
@@ED_T On mine the buttons are in pairs (but are in the top face). They are actually linked by little gears, so pressing one pops up the partner. (mad!). So I have 8 buttons and 4 feed rates. What I have only just realised is that to turn off the feed you need to balance all the buttons in mid-position. If you fully depress all "leading" buttons is feeds one way, and if you fully depress all the "trailing" buttons it feeds the other way. So it is even more mad than I thought.
Mine also has a rapid return screw, with a hex socket. In another fit of over-engineering there are three balls which release the lock on this screw automatically when you insert the hex key.
It looks like you have the same lower section as mine, but the feed ring is different, so probably also have the tiny locking balls.
The wohlhaupter design was originally aimed at being used on lathe spindle to do boring mill work by placing the part on the cross slide with various mill table attachments that were popular back in the day, but you could probably use the sync taper on some gear feed drills too. Hence why they are so abundant with Morse taper shanks but rarely a stock steep taper
I’ll have to watch for update?
Yes 😁
For me it looks like 1.4305
In that system this steel would be 1.0503
I like your lathe a lot
Me too man, me too
I liked the final TWIST