What Makes Hmong Folk Singing So Hard to Learn?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Hmong folk singing is an ancient tradition that dates back thousands of years. In this episode of SoundField, host Arthur "LA" Buckner delves into the world of Hmong folk singing in Minneapolis with artists Tiffany and Gaosong.
This episode highlights the deep historical roots of Hmong musical traditions that originated in China and migrated through Southeast Asia to America after the Secret War. We explore Hmong cultural preservation through music, focusing on the styles of lug txaj and kwv txhiaj, which are performed and cherished at community gatherings like the Hmong New Year and weddings.
Tiffany shares her personal journey with lug txaj, a style she learned in her childhood. She explains its role beyond entertainment-as a vehicle for education and discreet communication within the Hmong community, where direct conversation about sensitive topics is often avoided. Gaosong tells of her initial dreams of pop stardom and how she grew to appreciate the complexity and beauty of kwv txhiaj, influenced by her classical music training and her mother, a master of the genre.
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They didn't even expand on how this folk singing rhythm and the fact that Hmong is a tonal language. When combined with our traditional instruments, we can hear a song and not need words to know what is being said.
that’s actually so freaking cool
Now thats cool.
In Africa there is a similar tradition of "talking drums" that can communicate purely with tones over long distances.
@@geniewiley4217 hm kind of reminds me of whistling languages or even yodeling like singing techniques (which were also often used to communicate over long distances)
I heard about this with the Hmong jaw harp, I forget the Hmong name for it, where supposedly lovers would use it to communicate because you can mimic all of the tones. My best friend is Hmong and there are a lot of Hmong people where I live so I'm always fascinated to learn more
WHAT I DIDNT THINK ANYONE WOULD CARE ENOUGH TO PUT US UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT TYSM
You feel special now?
@@nightowl7261 not anymore i guess
You are special and this is so freaking cool. I've already shared it with a lot of ppl. I haven't even finished the video or started following any of these artists but am excited to find ppl.
@nightowl7261 when everyone's special, no one will be. That is the goal of diversity, equity, and inclusion. And I'm all for it.
@pingpong5877
That wasn't my point. This type of traditional songs are always talked about within the Hmong community. But when it's Hmong talking about it. It's like no one bats an eye. But when a non Hmong does it, Hmong get all excited. That's why I ask.
As a native Minnesotan, I grew up going to Hmong New Year and this just brought back so good memories.
As a Hmong male myself who is born in Laos, I find it hard to understand Hmong folks singing. It's like they are singing in a different language.
Nia Yai are the most boring of the kwv txhiaj. It has little to no flow.
@@nightowl7261 cool roasting
Same bro I'm Hmong too
You find it hard to understand Hmong folk songs because technically you most likely do not speak, know, nor understand the Hmong language (vocabularies) itself - spoken, written, and sung. Any truly fluent Hmong speaker (not your typical "Hmonglish" nonsense), native or non-native, would easily hear and know Hmong whether spoken or sung where comprehension is seamless. There are ceremonial songs in weddings and funeral rites that are even more complicated, as in harder to understand, than the folk songs because its vocabularies are not everyday words like most if not all folk songs.
Welcome to Hmong literature theory. Hmong literature is hard.
we’ve been getting so many musicians from the twin cities on this channel recently and i love it! shout out to all the young hmong artists keeping their culture alive 🫶🏾
I’m Tai Dam, which is an ethnicity from northern Vietnam. We have a very similar folk song tradition!!
Can you understand Lao and Thai speech?
I live in a town with a healthy Hmong community. They are great at sharing their culture and traditions. It's rare that they get to showcase live musicians, but when they do it's fantastic.
Right now in my opinion…….Ashley Thao is one of the best Hmong folk song singer. Best of luck to all the Hmong young artists who are still preserving this beautiful Hmoob kwv txhiaj.
I totally agreed.
Wasn't there another one also Lig muas ? But Ashley is definitely #1 in the chart. I only heard Lig muas becuz of DJ Peter lol..
@@cuteyvaaj9085 yog! Lig muas hais kwv txhiaj thiab hu nkauj
Ho-Chunk person here (indigenous to Wisconsin); I love the recognizable melodies of the tunes (they remind me almost of regional birdsongs!)
If you’re looking for an inspiration for local sound, I’d suggest widening the circle (pun intended) and chatting with some of the local powwow drums; a lot of our traditional songs use call and response forms that often are shaped similar to a natural pentatonic scale; for some* songs, the tune starts at the top of the scale, arpeggios a bit down to the middle notes before descending to the bottom and fading off on the last note at the end of the verse.
Lol it's funny you brought up Birdsongs.
If you search youtube. You will fine another documentary on Hmong. It's call
"Birdsong: the dying language whistle language of the Hmong of Laos."
I really appreciate my hmong culture being talked about their importance to this world and its people. It's really heartwarming to see other people be interested and talk about my culture whether its the food, songs, clothes or lifestyle. Especially as a kid i felt like us hmong people weren't really being seen for who we are and our culture, or wasn't being talked as much as other cultures so i thank you for making this video and keeping our culture alive.
Why need others to validate?
Culture will only survive if the people (you) of that culture continues to practice it.
We have song contest in old inuit culter. They would sing there fillings or rebuked. They would also use throat singing to resolve issues and for fun as well. It's simler with us too.
Its true Kwv Txhiaj is really complex to comprehend as well singing it on the spot. Its almost like singing in shakespears in real time. Amazing work girls! Keep up the trad!
Or almost like a rap battle
@@lalagag Absolutely nothing like rap whatsoever. Most if not all Hmong kids are confused in making this analogy or comparison solely due to the rhyming words. Rap is just talking more or less in rhyming words. Hmong folk songs 'kwv txhiaj' is actually singing with various tonal sounds, chords, rhythms etc. which you kids don't understand nor appreciate. It is closer to "acapella" or even "opera" in my opinion.
Once I thought I was far from my grandma and the few people with us that day. I start singing to the wind. I didn't expect anyone else to hear it but the wind. I was dead wrong. A few minutes later grandma approach me and said "son, I hear your folk singing and makes me cry." I still see the tears in my grandma's eyes. It was the first and the last folk singing for me.
2000 I sung Hmong folk song ( LUS TAUM ) at Vientiane, I saw many elders Hmong men were in tears I didn't understand why !!!
Love love love this video but wish the captions didn't read "singing in foreign language" when the speakers identify what language they're singing in repeatedly.
I think RUclips has the option for community to edit captions for Hmong to annotate
I love seeing young people keeping their culture alive. There's a huge Hmong community in central California as well.
I never appreciated as a kid and like the singer said it was just noise. But as I an older now I appreciate it so much more and can understand it. Love what u r doing!!!!
I wish I could upvote this more. The singing sounded interesting, and I got more of a feel for the style than for many of the genres presented before.
This is dope. Very informative.
Thanks for checking it out!
Tiffany you had learned so much from your grandma to be one of young woman who were born here and know so much back to the country you had never lived.
Wow, I don't how I stumbled upon this. I sing folk songs but at Hmong ceremonies like hu plig or ua neeb. This is amazingly.
For clarification and correctness there is no such thing as folk songs in Hmong ceremonies like hu plig and ua neeb. They are in fact ceremonial incantations (chants) and are not songs at least in this context - musically or musical songs. That said there are ceremonial songs in tshoob kos and kab ke pam tuag. One has to actually learn these songs in order to practice (apply) them during the ceremony when and as needed.
I love Kwv Ntxiaj too..I’ve been practicing but it’s really hard. Thanks for the history lesson.
Love Tiffany’s voice. Hais kwv txhiaj zoo kawg.
What a beautiful tradition. Thank you Sound Field and best of luck to the young people preserving this singing.
Wow Tiffany is so good. Love tiffany voice kwv txhiaj. Tiffany kwv txhiaj vocal sounds very traditional and very beautiful. I would love to listen to more of Tiffany.
I'm hmong, thank you to show it
Love seeing any and all content related to Hmong people online!! I'm Iu Mien-American (Cali born and raised) and feel so disconnected from my culture. Documentation keeps memories alive and helps communities flourish, so thank you very much ❤
Sound field is BASED because it’s done by twin cities pbs!!!! Minnesota!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you guys for showcasing the Hmong people and their culture big influence in Minnesota especially in the metro
Love Hmong kwv txhiaj. The one I love to listen right now is “tshav ntuj ci xyooj kwv txhiaj”. It so touchy. ❤❤❤
This is awesome! A few days ago my friend was randomly flipping through radio stations in the car and we landed on the MN Hmong Radio Broadcast where a man was singing some kind of folk song similar to this. At first we kind of laughed because it sounded so strange to us, like "noise" as the video mentioned. But as I kept listening I got more and more enchanted by it; the simplicity of the unaccompanied voice, the neverending melody with a subtle pattern, it's quite beautiful! I'd love to see more translations of these songs too so I can understand them.
I see things like this, art from foreign cultures, and have to remind myself this isn't some touring act from that country, but Americans bringing forward their own familial culture and heritage. How many nations contain and host such cultural diversity? I feel America's historical openness to immigrants is one of our greatest strengths, and greatest delights. Fearing this inflow, and its influence, seems to me to encourage other bad behaviors, such as bigotry, racism, white nationalism and more.
America is greatest when our arms are spread widest. I think this when I consider all the fantastic local "ethnic" restaurants I can go to, sampling not just their cuisine, but their music in the background, their art on the walls, and more. This has spawned an explosion in "fusion" cuisines that tease and test my tongue, and I think how this feels "so American" to me.
Thanks, Sound Field, for introducing me to these American artists who are developing themselves and reclaiming and sharing their culture and its art. Wow. My brother's wife is Viet-Lao (Lao immigrants to Vietnam), and the only cultural things know from her is her cooking. Though she doesn't claim Hmong identity, I'll still be asking her about more of her culture the next time I see her!
I'd really like to see something of an A and B side to these videos, with the B side being performances in the Tiny Desk style. The performance snippets in this video deserve expansion into their own space!
The average American Nationalist isn't too concerned about different cuisines or art from foreign countries, rather it's their foreign cultural values/practices that erode the Spirit of America (political ideologies that threaten a nations identity, religious beliefs that celebrate human violence, takers only, etc.). Unchecked multiculturalism will result in what Europe is currently battling with.
I love love love this! The diversity of culture we have in the US is the coolest thing. More of this pls!!!
Diversity is racism. America is being torn apart with hate because of diversity.
No, it's because the young people don't know the language or speak the language as fluently anymore. That's why its hard. Otherwise, it wouldn't be hard to learn. Also, the lyrics weren't written just made up as the emotions were felt at least thats how I perceive it to be. Other than that mothers taught their daughters how to sing the folk songs as they came of age. Maybe they were orphaned and that was their way of expressing their feelings. There's any reasons why people sing folk songs. It's sad that in the new world many traditions are dying off.
Nia yai, why this year you leave me be? I still miss you very much.
That's how modern Hmong meska sings kwv txhiaj in english.
Much love Sound Field ☝️
Beautiful! There’s a soothing quality to it.
Growing up we used to hate it. Now. I love it!
Fascinating information and beautifully presented!
Grew up listening to kwv txhiaj all the time due to my mother.
i grew up with this stuff on vhs tapes my mom would play on repeat. there was a period of 10+ years were i didn’t speak or hear any hmong language or song. when i reconnected it was initially with these old songs. i remember breaking into tears through these songs even though i understood less than 10% back then
Nia yai style is most boring
An entire culture of real-life Disney princes and princesses 🤩 change my mind. I hope these traditions never disappear 👍👍
I don’t know why but that song abt that girl not wanting to leave her home country but she has to because of the war made me burst into tears
May they keep their true pure traditions alive and may their ancestors smile on them. I understand the struggle of how hard it is keeping certain traditions alive. You have a beautiful culture. Never let it die.
I love this! I love tiffany & gaozong's voice. Thank you for this video showcasing our beautiful hmong culture. ❤
We in Saint Paul as so luck to have the Hmong community. The food is just a small part you can find if you look for it. They have contributed a lot to Our City.
This video is great, it can remind the current younger generation to remember and know more about Hmong folk songs and culture passed down from ancient times. I'm Hmong❤
A Thai person here! Appreciate the girls a lot ❤. Makes me think of Thai classical music and poetry as Thai is also a tonal language. I’m just mesmerized by how the girls nailed all those nasal tones though 😊
It's so hard ...because you gotta concentrate while wearing one of those dopeassed hats.
...Knowing you're dripping so hard you're making puddles.
They should come back visit the hmong that still live in the mountain in China.
This is so interesting!! I love learning about Hmong culture as well as other cultures that reside in the northern Southeast Asian region. As a Thai, I find the variety and the beauty of each culture so enigmatic and well preserved! I lowkey thought I might find similarities with morlum. I wonder if you’d also be interested in covering “morlum” which is Thai Isaan/Lao music. Also “luuktoong”I find those styles of music are so interesting, complex, and also very different from what the rest of the world might consider pretty music. I guess the closest thing in terms of technique is yodeling.
It's not only because kwv txhiaj uses harder hmong words or has its own unique styles of sound. The reason why kwv txhiaj won't survive is because the new generation thinks that it's an embarrassment to embrace our cultures folk song. Hmong people will only be proud of their culture if some other race praise us. It's sad but true. Otherwise, they don't care to persevere nothing.
I find it quite intimidating. I think it requires the mastering of clever metaphorical phrasing referring from a more 'flowery' poetic artillery that we don't use in our modern conversational vocabulary. All the while maintaining the specific tonal cadences as well. I have a hard enough time not using English for every other word in a simple sentence. Lol
Hmong needs validation from non Hmong. Low self esteem people.
Hmoob people needs validation from non hmoob people. That's a fact indeed.
Traditional songs are always talked about in the community and often still sung by older people. The younger don't care. But the moment non hmoob people praises it, all the young folks come in acting like they are proud ...lol
No lol. It's the lack fluency in the language. If you listen to the really old ones, they use idioms to hide what they are trying to say to the other person. It is then the other person's job to decipher and reply properly. The hmong culture does not do direct meaning when it comes to speaking to each other. Though it is changing with the younger generations
Whoa! The range and control of vocals are amazing. The singing reminds me of the sounds of the Thai khaen (aka Vietnamese khen/Hmong qeej). This definitely should be preserved before it gets lost.
Aww I love seeing people from the Twin Cities being showcased! Growing up here means I’ve gotten to know plenty of lovely Hmong people throughout my life, but I had no idea about this part of their heritage. Thanks for making this video!
Thank you for documenting. Often times you see females practice, but not males (in this day and age). Billy AKA Hey Billy is a Hmong male who practices. I would love his perspective and thoughts :)
The structure is really simple, even easier than a pop song. But the art/creativity is the hard part, many of the famous singers today admits to stealing others rhyming and phrases. Please dont write your kwv txhiaj down, this is a freestyle art form
True artistic creativity is key -- central to being deemed a 'rock star/expert'. What I have learned and been told by many kwv txhiaj enthusiasts and practitioners is that having a wealth of indepth vocabulary to form and articulate similes, metaphors, and analogies is what distinguishes an average singer from an expert -- Brittaney Spears to Adele. Yes one's vocal further enhances the song and/or singer but bland verses is meaningless even if your vocals is above average.
I am part of the White community in St. Paul. We fully embrace the Hmong American community. They earned their rights to live here.
Tiffany, you are inspiring.
The poetry is beautiful in those songs.
Thank you for keeping our traditions alive and sharing with the world.
(I see my mom in the pics, thanks)❤
Can we get Ashley Thao to come to the show too. She's the best lug txaj hmong folk song artist.
RESPECT for these sisters representing this art form with such reverance!!! I especially enjoyed the volley highlighting the regional styles. It has an undeniable power to mesmerize and invoke a gateway to nostalgia and cultural identity. I suppose that's a linear function across all folk music. It makes perfect sense why we are such "GOSSIP FOLK," throwing such poetic shade and reading one another for filth in prose. I'm here for the abundant nuanced dipthongs as well. Thanks to the channel for this great content.
This is a whole universe of music I didn’t even know about 😮
Very alike to Kurdish folk songs as well, huh, interesting!
Thanks for sharing this part about my culture! ❤️
I love this sooo much! Yes kwv txhiaj or lug txaj is extremely hard to learn indeed! Thank you for your time and effort in creating this informative video
LETS GOOOOO HMONG FOLK SONG!!!!! My grandfather recently had a huge retirement party, and one of the foremost Hmong folk singers sang three songs for him regaling him and my grandmother’s life. Absolutely lovely art form!!!!! ╰(*´︶`*)╯♡
The Green and White Hmong are not separate dialects, but rather, they represent variations of the same language, distinguished by two prominent accents. While they share a common linguistic foundation, the Green and White Hmong accents exhibit distinct phonetic and phonological characteristics, making them recognizable as unique variations within the Hmong language.
Yes still dialects but same language though.
A dialect is a variety of a language that's characteristic of a certain group of speakers. These groups of speakers may be defined by geography, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or other factors. Dialects are usually mutually intelligible with other dialects of the same language. By this definition, Green and White Hmong *are* two dialects of the Hmong language.
Beautiful! Holding onto these deep musical traditions is so important. It's also important to let them organically evolve; but keep them rooted.
This was great to watch! I have to know, where did the presenter find his African (yellow) outfit?! I LOVE IT!
This sort of music you can also hear in Burma. Most of the races live on the mountains of Burma sing the same style.
I heard Hmone were anticommunist people in Lao who move to US when US troops retreated from Lao. I think even Clint Eastwood made a movie about Hmone.
Hello everyone like 🌹🌻🌿💐💐🌱🌴🍀💚😍💛🎤🎸🎵🎵🎻🎷
Music Videos shot at Hmong Village is hilarious. XD
I’ve always wondered what you would call this in English. Now I know. “Hmong folk song” makes sense. One of the reasons it’s so hard to learn this style of singing is that I know a lot of the newer generation can not understand what they are saying or singing. I for one can not understand them when they start to sing.
Thank you for displaying our rich culture
3:44, you're not wrong on that! It is Shakespearian, and it is poetic.
I would consider these pieces of music to be Hmong Literature theory. We know there are Modern Hmong, Middle Hmong, Old Hmong, and Ancient Hmong. The language differs, like Modern English, Middle English, Old English, Frisian, and finally, German.
Hmong Literature theory isn't that easy.
Thank you for this video, it was very informative.
Lug txaj is poetry. It must be passed from generation to generation, through listening. Is not something you can teach easily. But repetition, something you hear. One of these girls is SPOT ON PERFECTION. the other is not, not even close. Props to both. But, to truly understand lug txaj, you must feel the words and it flows through you naturally. Like taking a breath of air.
Example, a son who hears the qeej blown throughout his home from birth will always have the rhythm and his breathing will on point vs someone trying to mimic the sound, but it doesn't flow naturally.
Props!! 🙏
Yog has tas koj paub lawm tes koj heej paub lawm. Has tshawg paub ntau.
FOB....😂you kidding right. Hmong refugees are totally different from Vietnamese where freh out of the boat totally meant real
Thanks for covering this!!❤❤❤
This is such a beautiful piece. Thanks for creating this important video. Love.
The problem today is that few appreciate the Hmong folk music. Even the older generation would rather go to bars and clubs and listen to newer styles of music. Other than a few people singing Hmong folk songs at New Years, it's rarely heard elsewhere.
Lol ! Do something else besides this like makes some money with the singing ! 😂
Tiffany, great voice! You have the perfect voice for singing traditional songs :) . Gaosheng needs more practice but getting there so great job! I am so glad to see the younger generations picking up again or it's going to be a lost art. Thank you for making this video!
The closest thing that an outsider can related to Kwv Txhiaj is current found in poetry similar to that of the Japanese Haiku or Idioms and Metaphors.
This was amazing and I learned some cool things new about the Hmong, a people I have so much love and respect for, so thanks!
It's sad the first thing I think of when talking about Hmong culture is how very intensely christian (colonized) the community has become
Amazing! Reminds me of the Saami Joik in Northern Scandinavia.
" the echo, "❤
This is so awesome. I have so many artists that i have to follow now. And this is insanely close to rap too. I would love to see some collabs with modern artists. Promote this with all my heart
Yup. Freestyle is in our blood. lol
What wasnt said in the video is that, this is not only used for new year and such but in traditional wedding for the bride and for the dead also.
The songs used for wedding is not lug txaj but called something else. They're all still folk song but have different used and occasion.
Ua zaj tshoob and Txiv xaiv are not kwv txhiaj/lub txaj
Wait..😂hmong MN and hmong Wisconsin is the same hmong from Laos, no need to create a new style
Hmong in China and Vietnam have their own styles of singing too.
Thank you so much for shedding light on our culture! 😭
Brown Sharon Johnson Brenda Lewis Mary
Nyob zoo nej! Amazing to get a Hmong video on this channel
Growing up i always hear my mom singing this. No i appreciate it so much
Hmong folks singing are very difficult to learn
Wow! Gaosong Vang is amazing ❤😊
FOBBY - that story is very similar to what my sister did regarding our family’s heritage language when she went to school and was embarrassed when somebody confronted her about speaking fluent Finnish. She immediately stopped speaking it at home and my dad was so hurt that he never taught any of the rest of us. Even though I begged him. Sigh. I’m so glad you returned to learning this art form. I never heard of it before. Very cool.
Thanks for the documentary of one aspect of our native culture, Arthur
Do you guys know that shong lee is my uncle
He’s invited to the cookout because that enunciation… 👌
Thank you so much for highlighting Hmong Folk singing! 🙏🏼