pls do not tell me that applying an adult perspective to major internet drama is a losing game i can't bear to accept it anyway here's my brand: dinnerwithbarkley.com/
I miscalculated to price when comparing Myna to Toatzy in my haste. I fully expect the commentlords to leverage this in their paragraph-long cookie discourse rants that I will not be reading. Pobody’s nerfect / jah bless / always be striving to buy nothing.
@@oshwaflz He won't, because he's clearly not aiming to be particularly professional but even if he did, what does it matter if I did? Either he's unprofessional or I'm angry in your world.
The extent of my involvement with this controversy has been, "Huh, that's a little pricy for my taste and I'm not into Pokimane. Guess I'll move on with my day."
People did really lose their mind over this. Yeah, it was a bit rude to call her fans poor, but I mean, really, the cookies are fine. If you don't want them you don't need to buy them.
I think the colour grading used also adds to the feel, it's got a kind of warm shot on film look to it. There's a good video about how SD and 4:3 might be better formats for TV sitcoms but I think 4:3 should make a wider comeback for content like this as well - the framing is much more focused and intimate, feels more like an actual conversation rather than a video.
I appreciate you explaining brand and user experience. I know it seems a little silly, but I think the commodification basically all goods through big platforms like Amazon has really changed people’s ideas about what something is “worth” and what they’re actually paying for.
I'm a total outsider in this whole cookie drama stuff but I never knew or thought about a lot of the stuff mentioned in this video and I found it all very eye opening. Thank you once again netshaq!
It confuses me that someone describes her as "wringing money out of her fans" as if she is doing something morally wrong by selling overpriced cookies. I personally cannot afford to buy any boutique cookie brand, so I buy off brand cookies at Aldi or Kroger. If someone can afford them and decides they are worth the money, that doesn't affect me at all. My lack of access to influencer branded products does not make me a victim. The level of outrage over a cookie brand seems excessive to me.
It comes from assuming the parasocial relationship between influencers is already manipulative, especially attractive female influencers with male fans (including Onlyfans girls). In this framing, the men watching her are too hopelessly stupid to think for themselves and will spend money on anything their favourite pretty lady tells them too because they think it will get her to notice them.
I think I am too old to know who Pokimane is and my arthritic hands are too tired to type out a rage-filled comment about how garbage your videos have become. But can I humbly ask that you still pray for me?
The whole "bringing an existing product to people's attention" thing really hit home for me, as someone who struggles with feeling like I have to be an innovator to improve the world. The truth is that no one knows about everything in existence, and finding niche products or ideas or businesses or whatever and bringing them to the attention of a wider audience is an extremely valuable service. In fact, it's what teachers do, and no one is saying that middle school ELA teachers aren't giving back to the world unless they're writing the very books they have their students read. If Pokimane found a product no one knew about and slapped her name on it to sell to a wider audience, she's doing a service to both the manufacturer of that product and her audience who previously did not know about the product.
I don't think the drama would've gone this far unless she started calling people criticizing the pricing as "broke boys". Funnily enough, I think this gave these cookies much more exposure than they otherwise would've gotten.
I wonder if people would take that broke boys comment different if someone else said it. I’ve long since decided the distortion field around Poki is not worth sorting out an opinion on, but like, that bit just read as banter to me. But again I have no horse in the race.
It is sincerely only an issue when its a woman doing it, males on twitch call their viewers broke all of the time and get praise for it, but god forbid a femoid make a joke right gamers?
@@jac1011 As someone who used to be in not the best situation financially, seeing a rich streamer casually demeaning people for being poor feels bad, and it was a gross thing to say, regardless of intention. I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to be upset by that response. Just because it wasn't intended maliciously doesn't really make it feel any better.
@@CaptainTechnicalityLPso you have that same energy towards someone like xQc, who is way more obnoxious about taking his wealth at his detractors? Pokimane made an offhand comment after receiving piles of bad faith critiques, if you're really that offended ironically go touch grass.
Videos always have a call to action to share it around and I never did that until now. This is such an interesting, information dense take on this situation that I just had to pass it along. I suppose you're giving the market what it wants.
Oh my god thank you for this!!!!!!!!! When I first saw a video about pokimanes “scam” I was so irritated because it’s so obvious people don’t know how the industry works.
The white label brand stuff is always extremely obvious when it’s some hyper specific seasonal item like Panettone during Christmas time. Everything down to the box will look the same but each grocery store will put their own label (and price) on it.
On the topic of your merch, no other sweater or merch has gotten as many compliments, specifically from STEM professors and majors, like your Try Gardening sweater. I understand why you chose to offer something different and it was cool to see your journey with ceramics. I feel like I'm gatekeeping each time I'm asked about it because its not available anymore. I just wanted to let you know that its cool when people make quality things and pursue what they feel is right for them.
Take the whole controversy aside. I don't think the execution is worthy of Pokimane's brand. We've seen some killer brands come out of this idea: Feastibles, Chamberlain Coffee, Prime, Awesome Socks Club, and Barkley are outstanding examples of this. Something I don't think your take covered or maybe talked around was maybe consumer preferences are just changing and Myna failed to pass the sniff test. I could go on about this but it's quite hard to nail down the inauthenticity that seems to be permeating from Myna. I don't know where the line is but when I looked at Myna it felt like Poki saying "Here are my cookies, you're so welcome." Maybe it's the fact that her cookies so clearly aren't for the majority of her fan base and this gives the perception she is chasing the "sell your own products' metagame. Not that that's a bad thing but you never want to give that impression.
I feel like if you are buying an influencer brand you are buying it to support the influencer or you are doing it as a one-off thing just to be part of the discussion around the brand. I dont think (hope) anyone is silly enough to believe that an influencer is trying to give you the best value deal possible. Also kind of funny how people expect this person to have a revolutionary cookie recipe. It's a store bought cookie with Vitamin D. I do think it's silly that people buy stuff for that reason to support influencers who are doing impossibly well, but to each their own.
This is why I just buy Walmart brand everything if I can. I just don't care about packaging and all the other perks. If I wanted vitamin d I would spend $7 on a dropper.
Alright? Then how is her advice bad? If you can't afford it, do not buy it. I do not complain whenever Shaq makes a video and his sponsorship I cannot afford, I just be a normal person and move on
This channel is becoming better every day. Someday soon we'll be making jokes about how it's cool you've got small creators like Internet Shaquille to come on the channel. Keep doing those Mogul Moves -- I'd buy ceramic cookies from you anyday.
The same people pretending like they are mad about that are the "you wouldn't survive in a MW2 lobby" type people, its the hypocrisy for me, are we easily offended or are we not? Lets at least make it consistent
The designs on your shirts are my FAVORITE. and i love the quality of the bonfire shirts! Id be ecstatic for more. I volunteer at a preserve with a lot of gardeners and they all get jealous of my awesome shirts with your designs.
I had no idea this particular controversy existed until you covered it, thank you. I don't really care about it, but I do care about the underlying issue you mentioned. Thank you for earnestly responding to the controversy, but I want to know what exactly is the value-add of branding then? If a brand is not just a product (true to different levels), then why don't white labels sell direct? For the retailers? For marketing agencies? For the consumers? Surely not for the consumers, right? If the naysayers were right, and Poki was legit putting an $18 markup on an existing white label product (which she isn't, as you pointed out), then why not just use her influencer status to plug the product, take the ad commission and put way less effort into it? Why co-opt it into a brand for far more buy-in and potential loss? why does Pokimane have to sell these cookies for them to have value and be prized? Why can't she just be really popular and Toatzy just have really good cookies and if she likes them she can plug them in an ad? Maybe it's a bet that the profit would be greater with the wider margin markup than any ad commission would pay out. And why would people pay more for Pokimane-brand cookies? Why do people want to pay for the idea of quality olive oil over the actual quality olive oil? Clearly it's what the market wants and clearly it's run by the lowest common denominator, which values the statement of status and the implication of wealth over actual status and wealth (like you point out in tequila and wine branding). Sure, I can accept that the communication of status is equally if not more important than actual status but jeez. I can also understand the resentment over living in a world where peacocking and branding is more important than quality, and the reality in others' heads about who we are and what we bring to the table is more important than reality IRL and the value each human life truly holds. A peacock doesn't have much meat but it sure is pretty (the males, I guess). Why do dancers dance, and not walk? Why do figure skaters twirl and cavort and not just skate from point A to point B? Why do people sing and not speak? What value is this? It's all just made up.
I think people should be rightfully angry at how marketing in general works and how the psychological tricks being used to induce demand that wouldn't be there otherwise are actually a big factor (among others) in skewing an already flawed market system even more to the benefit of large brands and the uber-wealthy and to the detriment of average people. Shaq having worked in the industry is rightfully pointing out that this is common practice, but he also couldn't resist making a swipe at the system in general. Sure its normalised and even moreso when it is your job. But deep down most people working in marketing see the destructive aspects of it pretty clearly. So my take: dont get mad at pokimane, instead question the ways you are complicit in a system that exploits labour and the planets natural ressources to a frightening degree and find ways to resist, even if small
Dead on. Shaq calling influencer marketing "sustainable" really showed that inside the industry veiw on this. From his perspective its a success because it helps move product.
Every other streamer sells $100 hoodies: "YAAS!! DROP THAT MERCH!!" This streamer sells $28 cookies: "HOW DARE YOU!" I can't wait to forget about all this in 30 seconds when the next shiny object flashes across my screen
One could make the argument that someone buying a $100 hoodie will at least get far more utility out of it given that they can wear it for a long time whereas the $28 four-pack of cookies can only be consumed once. But even then, if people want to buy the expensive cookies, let them. Even as someone who doesn't watch Pokimane, I know that she put a cap on her subs/donations so it's not like she's doing this for the money.
@@ajiththomas2465 we buy sweatshop made clothes all the time made by literal children in Bangladesh. I wonder if people ever feel bad knowing how our clothes are made or if they feel any shame around this subject?
personally I am not upset that she sells overpriced cookies. It's because "if you're a broke boy just say so". That reeks of entitlement and that I just cannot stand.
i just think that it's especially gross for streamers etc that have a largely parasocial interaction oriented brand to basically just do a price hike dropship. it's exploitative in a way that a celeb endorsement etc just isn't really.
like i dont know why im supposed to just take it as a value neutral thing that everyone just has an online brand gimmick wherein the goal is to extract as much money as possible from randoms. sure it happens, a lot, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly good or should be normal. i think other people besides her have been called out for these somewhat cynical cash grabs too, and i dont think that it being washed with weirdo twitter misogynists makes it any less bad, just more embarrassing for those guys and internet people as a whole
i get your point as the industry as a whole but i feel like the market for expensive, health cookies are either for some fans of her, or people who would be willing to pay that price, i dont know if she is extracting the most out of her fans when its probably niche enough most people are not interested
While adopting a prexisting brand of health cookies is certainly less damaging than something like Prime, which has lasting health consequences, i dont think 'more sustainable' than merch is accurate. At least with the merch consumers are getting a product they fully understand. With these cookies, Pokimane's primarily younger audience is being marketed a diet culture product that probably does exactly fuckall at a huge markup. Shes not commiting highway robbery or anything and claims as such are stupid, but she is leveraging this product with her personal brand. I dont really see a reason to dogpile on her while shit like Prime is out there doing the exact same thing, but that doesnt make it something positive imo.
"A brand is not just a product" I mean yeah, that's the whole point of a brand, when influencers sell merch like basic t-shirts with their designs slapped on they're not selling the product, they're selling the brand
Usually I trust Shaq to do his research, but I guess this is an off-day. Myna cookies come in a minimum of a 4-pack costing 28$, 32$ if you include shipping. Each pack of Myna is a 112g pack, which brings it to a total of 32$ for 448g. Each pack of Toatzy's Midnight cookies are 10$ for 400g. Their ingredient lists and nutrition charts are basically identical, with the only difference being the added Vitamin D. There is no amount of 'New formula research', 'Brand value markup', 'Added Vitamin-D' or any other mental gymnastics that can justify the 22$ markup from the original product. The only acceptable angle here being "Hey, this is to support me as a creator" or "This is a replacement to my merch." But "Are you a broke boy?" is not the tone to be taken when you are asking people to buy your merch. Almost always the approach has been "Support your creators by buying X." This is made worse by her previous statements against other infamous Twitch streamers where she has said verbatim: "not to mention that tons of people watch streams after a day of hard work, or while being broke college students, or a multitude of other situations where they need to be more frugal. get these shitty takes off my TL and off my streaming platform"
@@netshaq2 If engaging in (civil) discourse, and accepting simple everyday mistakes are not what you want to do, then maybe don't make discourse videos on current affairs where you blatantly misrepresent the facts to your large audience. Quite literally no part of the discourse in the video remains valid after the price discussion is over-turned. It's not a simple "Yeah but that's insignificant".
@@strangeamoeba6111 If you think that the entire crux of his argument rested on the pricing of the products, you're not arguing in good faith and don't deserve civil discourse.
@@glenn5560 No, his argument benefited from his presentation of Myna as a similarly priced alternative. When in reality, it really is a significant markup. How can you make an argument where price is never a concern? Is it okay if she sold Myna cookies at 150$ markup, and still pressured her audience by calling them broke bitches for not wanting 160$ cookies?? Where would you draw the line? Because a 22$ is quite a significant amount of money for cookies. Hell, a simple search will show you a guy calling the original bag of 400g for 10$ as overpriced, out in the Costco subreddit. At what point will you consider something as disingenuously priced?
I don't think the idea of "this is a common practice" is really a compelling defense. Most people don't realise that, or at least don't grasp the extent of it. I'm sure you could make similar videos about other similar things that would cause other similar reactions. It's just more obvious when it's a box of cookies previously sold at $10 that's now sold at $28 because an influencer is selling them. If it was laid out as simply that a company is selling $3 olive oil at $15 because it has a cool bottle, I'm sure a lot of people would find that ridiculous too. Personally, I already think that of bottled waters. There's also the difference in how people see a faceless corporation and how people see a known influencer personality. People to some extent expect a profit driven company to charge what they can get away with for a product, but an online personality that feels like a friend and is marketing directly to them "feels" like they should be trying to do their fans a solid deal.
You are currently arguing against the concept of capitalism, you are not mad at Poki, you are mad at the economic system that you are under. "Popular person can make a product sell better and for more" is tech that we figured out in like 1200BCE
I saw the tweet in question and immediately thought "this sounds like a perfect topic for NetShaq to cover!" Also I like the aspect ratio of this video
I can excuse all the drama, but what I find hilarious is that these streamers often times frame things as either sustainable, more morally right or some other feel good stuff, but this cookie uses palm oil which is absolutely horrendous for the environment. In Norway you are hard pressed to find ANY product that contains palm oil.
It feels like the people getting mad at this are so close to the truth, but their hate from pokimaine has made them lose the forest for the trees. The reality they've gotten close to is that basically all entrepreneurship is fraudulant, a person, pays a food scientist to come up with a cookie formulation, outsources the production to an oem factory, pays an artist to design the packaging, and then pays someone to market the product. After all that we say the entrepreneur "started a cookie brand" but, what exactly did they do, what about this cookie is a result of them. This is true for most products, pokimaine is in essence engaging in the falshood of capitalism that every person with money does, people just got uniquley angry about it when she did it. For the record i find it kind of distasteful but its not only pokimaine doing it, i've lost count of the number of times a youtuber has claimed "im starting a company" only for the reality to be that some marketing dickhead at influencer brands r us, approached them with a fullly formed company they only have to put their name on, Its activley dishonest
I am a bit miffed that they are branded as healthy cookies when they are almost exactly as healthy as any standard cookie with an unnecessary amount of vitamin D added. More of an issue with health marketing as a whole than Poki though
good video bla bla bla.... the real question is who the f pays 10 dollars for 400g of (probably mediocre?) cookies? I dont live in america, but I wouldnt pay more than 3€ for 400g of storebought cookies edit: just finished the video, guess i am silly :/
From what I understand, the controversy isn't as much the pricing as it was her response when her own fans, concerned with the high pricing of the cookies (which is still an understandable concern when you pay 28$ for 400 grams of cookies), seen as condescending, dismissive and rude, calling her fans idiots and "broke boys" ("I know math is hard when you’re an idiot, but like, if you’re a broke boy just say so.") Nevertheless it was a nice informative video that made me discover this secondary channel of yours, and I'm glad I clicked on it :)
To your end question, fuck no. I don't want more millionaires starting another brand. Last thing we need is funneling more money to useless twitch streamers.
"surely nobody actually expects... ...nobody is really that silly" Man, I wish. There are a lot of silly people out there though. I discovered a 'message board' in 2008 and i thought it was nothing but 'nameless' trolls trolling trolls. Turns out some of them were serious. (Poe's law on Internet culture)
I think the video needs some rework. White labelling is common practice, but inflating the price to exploit the parasocial relationship is rather vile. I could commend her effort if it wasn't obvious that this is a cash grab and the brand is going to be gone in a year or two
@@netshaq2 I mean, accept critique or don't. But this video starts on an incorrect premise, that's no foundation for an argument. I mean, the very first article I read on this pointed out the white labeling practise is the norm, but that her content reduction plus inflation isn't. It dramatically changes the perspective of this. She's not creating anything here, just slapping a sticker on the broth
@@mattymattffs It think its just really not that important, an influencer made a dumb product and was a little mean, if that is your biggest issue you are dealing with today then you are in great fucking shape my man, just be happy about that
@@xXEGPXx I didn't really say the issue was important. I did say that starting on an incorrect premise changes the entire argument drastically. It's the basics of debate.
@@mattymattffs People are so poisoned by debate culture, not everything is a debate, not everything needs to be taken seriously, it just doesn't fucking really matter at all
I miscalculated to price when comparing Myna to Toatzy in my haste. I fully expect the commentlords to leverage this in their paragraph-long cookie discourse rants that I will not be reading. Pobody’s nerfect / jah bless / always be striving to buy nothing.
Thanks to you shaq, I will never eat a food again. Food is for capitalist scum😤😤
What's great is the very next line you addressed "even if she was selling these at $28 a bag" lmao
But you won't re-shoot and re-edit to fix the mistake? Hmmm.... Sounds like someone's already got their bag and they don't care about misinformation.
@@talananiyiyaya8912and then when he does reshoot youll comment how hes just reuploading a video to scam for more clicks.
@@oshwaflz He won't, because he's clearly not aiming to be particularly professional but even if he did, what does it matter if I did? Either he's unprofessional or I'm angry in your world.
The extent of my involvement with this controversy has been, "Huh, that's a little pricy for my taste and I'm not into Pokimane. Guess I'll move on with my day."
Being normal is so goated
People did really lose their mind over this. Yeah, it was a bit rude to call her fans poor, but I mean, really, the cookies are fine. If you don't want them you don't need to buy them.
@@netshaq2being a hater is free
Buying $28 cookies
Pokimane: I consent
Tier 3 Sub: I consent
Isn't there someone you forgot to ask?
They did not ask me, if you can even believe it
@@yektaagra741they didn’t ask me either
I love seeing the 4:3 aspect ratio! It's silly, but I find it so cozy. And it's really more than enough for a simple 1-person sitdown vlog.
I think the colour grading used also adds to the feel, it's got a kind of warm shot on film look to it. There's a good video about how SD and 4:3 might be better formats for TV sitcoms but I think 4:3 should make a wider comeback for content like this as well - the framing is much more focused and intimate, feels more like an actual conversation rather than a video.
Yes, the extra information we would have received from the rest of his wall would have been simply too much.
Shaq Myna cookies come in 114g bags, the 4 pack comes out to 456g in total for 28 dollars.
damb
The general dogpiling aside this detail is the kicker, next to the alleged patronising clip.
@@netshaq2 disappointed in u
Sheeesh.
I bought some 500g cookies for like £3 The other day
"Mid to extremely mid" is a halerious line
I’ll be praying for you brother xoxo
🙏
"Bless your heart" type responses are great as long as your team is winning, or at least you only pull them out on truly indefensible haters
Yes And that specific comment she was entirely correct like what a weird thing to say to a stranger you watch on your computer
I appreciate you explaining brand and user experience. I know it seems a little silly, but I think the commodification basically all goods through big platforms like Amazon has really changed people’s ideas about what something is “worth” and what they’re actually paying for.
absolutely. The expectation for free shipping and free returns turned everything upside down
I'm a total outsider in this whole cookie drama stuff but I never knew or thought about a lot of the stuff mentioned in this video and I found it all very eye opening. Thank you once again netshaq!
I can save her.
rock on, king
One thing you can always save is 10% at gamersupps.com/ by using coupon code SHAQ
And when you were thirsty, that was when Shaq quenched you with supps at a reasonable discount.
@@netshaq2 unfortunately as soon as I visited that website to use the promo code SHAQ, I failed NNN.
It confuses me that someone describes her as "wringing money out of her fans" as if she is doing something morally wrong by selling overpriced cookies. I personally cannot afford to buy any boutique cookie brand, so I buy off brand cookies at Aldi or Kroger. If someone can afford them and decides they are worth the money, that doesn't affect me at all. My lack of access to influencer branded products does not make me a victim. The level of outrage over a cookie brand seems excessive to me.
Yeah, I’ll never buy these but jeez wait til these folks find out the margins on printer ink, sunglasses, and perfume
I would be yelling at HP's CEO right now but I can't find his Twitch channel. Maybe he has a Kick exclusive deal@@netshaq2
It comes from assuming the parasocial relationship between influencers is already manipulative, especially attractive female influencers with male fans (including Onlyfans girls). In this framing, the men watching her are too hopelessly stupid to think for themselves and will spend money on anything their favourite pretty lady tells them too because they think it will get her to notice them.
Price gouging is morally wrong
@@TwoForFlinchin1not for a niche, totally unecessary product. nobody was dying from a lack of space cookies a week ago.
To everyone reading this: your position on this story is normal, and you have the most healthy perspective on celebrity and consumption.
Sounds like something someone who was extremely mid would say!
@@imightbebiased9311 best opinion I've heard yet
No, you!
came for the drama, stayed for the aspect ratio!! great vid.
I love the funky aspect ratios!
@@gurjotbains Don't mean to down the vibe but its just 4:3
I think I am too old to know who Pokimane is and my arthritic hands are too tired to type out a rage-filled comment about how garbage your videos have become. But can I humbly ask that you still pray for me?
I’ll pray for you too brotha 🙏
Hopefully your literacy comprehension can grow one day too
only getting my Internet drama news from extranet shaq from now on 🤞
i like that he takes the content of a... 30 minute "documentary" and distills it down into a 5 minute exploration. like he's said, he generous
The whole "bringing an existing product to people's attention" thing really hit home for me, as someone who struggles with feeling like I have to be an innovator to improve the world. The truth is that no one knows about everything in existence, and finding niche products or ideas or businesses or whatever and bringing them to the attention of a wider audience is an extremely valuable service. In fact, it's what teachers do, and no one is saying that middle school ELA teachers aren't giving back to the world unless they're writing the very books they have their students read. If Pokimane found a product no one knew about and slapped her name on it to sell to a wider audience, she's doing a service to both the manufacturer of that product and her audience who previously did not know about the product.
I don't think the drama would've gone this far unless she started calling people criticizing the pricing as "broke boys". Funnily enough, I think this gave these cookies much more exposure than they otherwise would've gotten.
I wonder if people would take that broke boys comment different if someone else said it. I’ve long since decided the distortion field around Poki is not worth sorting out an opinion on, but like, that bit just read as banter to me. But again I have no horse in the race.
imagine reading "broke boyz" and thinking it's actually a sinister, mean, villain laugh-ying comment
It is sincerely only an issue when its a woman doing it, males on twitch call their viewers broke all of the time and get praise for it, but god forbid a femoid make a joke right gamers?
@@jac1011 As someone who used to be in not the best situation financially, seeing a rich streamer casually demeaning people for being poor feels bad, and it was a gross thing to say, regardless of intention. I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to be upset by that response. Just because it wasn't intended maliciously doesn't really make it feel any better.
@@CaptainTechnicalityLPso you have that same energy towards someone like xQc, who is way more obnoxious about taking his wealth at his detractors? Pokimane made an offhand comment after receiving piles of bad faith critiques, if you're really that offended ironically go touch grass.
I mis-parsed the title and was really hoping that there was some new way of making a tea beverage out of cookies
Videos always have a call to action to share it around and I never did that until now. This is such an interesting, information dense take on this situation that I just had to pass it along. I suppose you're giving the market what it wants.
God your videos are good, thank you for putting efforts in them I can definitely feel it
Thank you so much for saving me the trouble of learning about this.
Like most (if not all) internet "controversy", it's stupid, unimportant, and people will forget about it by Monday.
Amen!!
Oh my god thank you for this!!!!!!!!! When I first saw a video about pokimanes “scam” I was so irritated because it’s so obvious people don’t know how the industry works.
Lord knows I've been waiting on my next fill of cookie drama!!
Appreciate the honesty in the self-roast on merch 😂
The white label brand stuff is always extremely obvious when it’s some hyper specific seasonal item like Panettone during Christmas time. Everything down to the box will look the same but each grocery store will put their own label (and price) on it.
the rounded corners on this video made my day
I had to check when this was uploaded to see if I’d missed it on April 1st
The title made me think it was cookie flavored tea
Appreciate the transparency in revealing your margins, get that bag. By the way, what watch is that?
Shaq stays bringing the yummy spicy takes 🫡
This is the only reasonable thoughtful take I’ve seen on this “controversy” so thank you for making me less insane.
I'm curious why the 4:3 ratio? are we entering a new post-widescreen, post-vertical video format age??
I think 4:3 is best for just a guy talking to a camera with nothing going on in the background
On the topic of your merch, no other sweater or merch has gotten as many compliments, specifically from STEM professors and majors, like your Try Gardening sweater. I understand why you chose to offer something different and it was cool to see your journey with ceramics. I feel like I'm gatekeeping each time I'm asked about it because its not available anymore. I just wanted to let you know that its cool when people make quality things and pursue what they feel is right for them.
thanks for the compliment :) FYI the shop is still technically up, I just don't advertise it: www.bonfire.com/store/internet-shaquille/
Only thing I learned from this video is that I can technically ask for a maximum %20 discount at Barkley
Take the whole controversy aside. I don't think the execution is worthy of Pokimane's brand. We've seen some killer brands come out of this idea: Feastibles, Chamberlain Coffee, Prime, Awesome Socks Club, and Barkley are outstanding examples of this. Something I don't think your take covered or maybe talked around was maybe consumer preferences are just changing and Myna failed to pass the sniff test. I could go on about this but it's quite hard to nail down the inauthenticity that seems to be permeating from Myna. I don't know where the line is but when I looked at Myna it felt like Poki saying "Here are my cookies, you're so welcome." Maybe it's the fact that her cookies so clearly aren't for the majority of her fan base and this gives the perception she is chasing the "sell your own products' metagame. Not that that's a bad thing but you never want to give that impression.
Thanks for the perspective. It’s a good one to consider
I feel like if you are buying an influencer brand you are buying it to support the influencer or you are doing it as a one-off thing just to be part of the discussion around the brand. I dont think (hope) anyone is silly enough to believe that an influencer is trying to give you the best value deal possible. Also kind of funny how people expect this person to have a revolutionary cookie recipe. It's a store bought cookie with Vitamin D.
I do think it's silly that people buy stuff for that reason to support influencers who are doing impossibly well, but to each their own.
Even the cookies are someone else’s labor repackaged. Reaction video business model for food.
Chips ahoy priced the same would be over 50 bucks a packet.
Kinda crazy
This is why I just buy Walmart brand everything if I can. I just don't care about packaging and all the other perks. If I wanted vitamin d I would spend $7 on a dropper.
Have u ever thought about that most big companies that mass produce junk food get massive wholesale discount
Alright? Then how is her advice bad? If you can't afford it, do not buy it. I do not complain whenever Shaq makes a video and his sponsorship I cannot afford, I just be a normal person and move on
as usual, the most based take, but also what rollie do you keep on your wrist???
You have a very broad vocabulary. Love it.
This channel is becoming better every day. Someday soon we'll be making jokes about how it's cool you've got small creators like Internet Shaquille to come on the channel. Keep doing those Mogul Moves -- I'd buy ceramic cookies from you anyday.
I think the main anger at this point is her calling her fans broke. In this economy. Not cool.
^ broke
The same people pretending like they are mad about that are the "you wouldn't survive in a MW2 lobby" type people, its the hypocrisy for me, are we easily offended or are we not? Lets at least make it consistent
The designs on your shirts are my FAVORITE. and i love the quality of the bonfire shirts! Id be ecstatic for more. I volunteer at a preserve with a lot of gardeners and they all get jealous of my awesome shirts with your designs.
least parasocial commenter... jesus christ
@@Stryder-ic3ws I'm confused! 😅 Wishing you well either ways though!
Your sideburns look dope
Bad math, good take.
great aspect ratio dawg
I had no idea this particular controversy existed until you covered it, thank you. I don't really care about it, but I do care about the underlying issue you mentioned.
Thank you for earnestly responding to the controversy, but I want to know what exactly is the value-add of branding then? If a brand is not just a product (true to different levels), then why don't white labels sell direct? For the retailers? For marketing agencies? For the consumers? Surely not for the consumers, right? If the naysayers were right, and Poki was legit putting an $18 markup on an existing white label product (which she isn't, as you pointed out), then why not just use her influencer status to plug the product, take the ad commission and put way less effort into it? Why co-opt it into a brand for far more buy-in and potential loss? why does Pokimane have to sell these cookies for them to have value and be prized? Why can't she just be really popular and Toatzy just have really good cookies and if she likes them she can plug them in an ad? Maybe it's a bet that the profit would be greater with the wider margin markup than any ad commission would pay out. And why would people pay more for Pokimane-brand cookies? Why do people want to pay for the idea of quality olive oil over the actual quality olive oil? Clearly it's what the market wants and clearly it's run by the lowest common denominator, which values the statement of status and the implication of wealth over actual status and wealth (like you point out in tequila and wine branding). Sure, I can accept that the communication of status is equally if not more important than actual status but jeez. I can also understand the resentment over living in a world where peacocking and branding is more important than quality, and the reality in others' heads about who we are and what we bring to the table is more important than reality IRL and the value each human life truly holds. A peacock doesn't have much meat but it sure is pretty (the males, I guess). Why do dancers dance, and not walk? Why do figure skaters twirl and cavort and not just skate from point A to point B? Why do people sing and not speak? What value is this? It's all just made up.
I think people should be rightfully angry at how marketing in general works and how the psychological tricks being used to induce demand that wouldn't be there otherwise are actually a big factor (among others) in skewing an already flawed market system even more to the benefit of large brands and the uber-wealthy and to the detriment of average people.
Shaq having worked in the industry is rightfully pointing out that this is common practice, but he also couldn't resist making a swipe at the system in general. Sure its normalised and even moreso when it is your job. But deep down most people working in marketing see the destructive aspects of it pretty clearly.
So my take: dont get mad at pokimane, instead question the ways you are complicit in a system that exploits labour and the planets natural ressources to a frightening degree and find ways to resist, even if small
Dead on.
Shaq calling influencer marketing "sustainable" really showed that inside the industry veiw on this.
From his perspective its a success because it helps move product.
What was that podcast that was talking about branding
Prof G
I could listen to Shaq' hot-taqes all day.
We got Zach Snyder over here with the 4:3 aspect ratio.
1:03 no one cares if the bag price is the same if one bag is 4 times bigger. Big brain time.
3:50 I wish they would, as overhyped as the ltt screwdriver was, it was exactly that
Every other streamer sells $100 hoodies: "YAAS!! DROP THAT MERCH!!"
This streamer sells $28 cookies: "HOW DARE YOU!"
I can't wait to forget about all this in 30 seconds when the next shiny object flashes across my screen
One could make the argument that someone buying a $100 hoodie will at least get far more utility out of it given that they can wear it for a long time whereas the $28 four-pack of cookies can only be consumed once. But even then, if people want to buy the expensive cookies, let them. Even as someone who doesn't watch Pokimane, I know that she put a cap on her subs/donations so it's not like she's doing this for the money.
@@ajiththomas2465 we buy sweatshop made clothes all the time made by literal children in Bangladesh.
I wonder if people ever feel bad knowing how our clothes are made or if they feel any shame around this subject?
@@Geassmaster55
Some people do feel bad and try to avoid it. Others don't know or even if they do know, they won't care through cognitive dissonance.
personally I am not upset that she sells overpriced cookies. It's because "if you're a broke boy just say so". That reeks of entitlement and that I just cannot stand.
Dude your composition here is unreasonably nice with your backdrop, demeanor, skintone and shirt! 👍👍
i just think that it's especially gross for streamers etc that have a largely parasocial interaction oriented brand to basically just do a price hike dropship. it's exploitative in a way that a celeb endorsement etc just isn't really.
like i dont know why im supposed to just take it as a value neutral thing that everyone just has an online brand gimmick wherein the goal is to extract as much money as possible from randoms. sure it happens, a lot, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly good or should be normal. i think other people besides her have been called out for these somewhat cynical cash grabs too, and i dont think that it being washed with weirdo twitter misogynists makes it any less bad, just more embarrassing for those guys and internet people as a whole
i get your point as the industry as a whole but i feel like the market for expensive, health cookies are either for some fans of her, or people who would be willing to pay that price, i dont know if she is extracting the most out of her fans when its probably niche enough most people are not interested
Ill be praying for YOU
Interesting video. More interesting is that Shaq is looking healthy 💪
i work at costco and we just threw away like a pallet of these cookies because they taste like shit
While adopting a prexisting brand of health cookies is certainly less damaging than something like Prime, which has lasting health consequences, i dont think 'more sustainable' than merch is accurate. At least with the merch consumers are getting a product they fully understand. With these cookies, Pokimane's primarily younger audience is being marketed a diet culture product that probably does exactly fuckall at a huge markup. Shes not commiting highway robbery or anything and claims as such are stupid, but she is leveraging this product with her personal brand. I dont really see a reason to dogpile on her while shit like Prime is out there doing the exact same thing, but that doesnt make it something positive imo.
Shaq would be a superb guest lecturer at any biz school 🤘🏽🤘🏽🤘🏽
I'm waiting for the Internet Shaquille white label offering. When can I have AI slap my voice and face onto internet shaq videos?
Ngl i felt like i was going crazy seeing the outrage over something this simple
Good lord, how depressingly mundane.
Shaq is reaching new levels of based never seen before
Based to extremely based
"A brand is not just a product" I mean yeah, that's the whole point of a brand, when influencers sell merch like basic t-shirts with their designs slapped on they're not selling the product, they're selling the brand
Internet drama? No thanks, I’m here to learn about branding.
Wouldn't a mega-millionaire be a trillionaire?
woah nice aspect ratio
which mic is that?
also if you want to chat with someone who is an expert my good friend works in dtc food, snacks, and product and is well respected!
This is a DJI wireless mic sitting inside a 3d printed handheld mic housing from Etsy
@@netshaq2 omg smart
Usually I trust Shaq to do his research, but I guess this is an off-day.
Myna cookies come in a minimum of a 4-pack costing 28$, 32$ if you include shipping.
Each pack of Myna is a 112g pack, which brings it to a total of 32$ for 448g.
Each pack of Toatzy's Midnight cookies are 10$ for 400g.
Their ingredient lists and nutrition charts are basically identical, with the only difference being the added Vitamin D.
There is no amount of 'New formula research', 'Brand value markup', 'Added Vitamin-D' or any other mental gymnastics that can justify the 22$ markup from the original product.
The only acceptable angle here being "Hey, this is to support me as a creator" or "This is a replacement to my merch."
But "Are you a broke boy?" is not the tone to be taken when you are asking people to buy your merch. Almost always the approach has been "Support your creators by buying X."
This is made worse by her previous statements against other infamous Twitch streamers where she has said verbatim: "not to mention that tons of people watch streams after a day of hard work, or while being broke college students, or a multitude of other situations where they need to be more frugal. get these shitty takes off my TL and off my streaming platform"
I will not be arguing with you but I WILL be praying for you! 🥰
@@netshaq2 If engaging in (civil) discourse, and accepting simple everyday mistakes are not what you want to do, then maybe don't make discourse videos on current affairs where you blatantly misrepresent the facts to your large audience.
Quite literally no part of the discourse in the video remains valid after the price discussion is over-turned. It's not a simple "Yeah but that's insignificant".
@@strangeamoeba6111brother if you watched the video you would know he’s joking with you, good lord
@@strangeamoeba6111 If you think that the entire crux of his argument rested on the pricing of the products, you're not arguing in good faith and don't deserve civil discourse.
@@glenn5560 No, his argument benefited from his presentation of Myna as a similarly priced alternative. When in reality, it really is a significant markup.
How can you make an argument where price is never a concern? Is it okay if she sold Myna cookies at 150$ markup, and still pressured her audience by calling them broke bitches for not wanting 160$ cookies?? Where would you draw the line? Because a 22$ is quite a significant amount of money for cookies. Hell, a simple search will show you a guy calling the original bag of 400g for 10$ as overpriced, out in the Costco subreddit.
At what point will you consider something as disingenuously priced?
What's missed is the higher price is now marketed as a "health food" where it wasn't before. It feels misleading and disingenuous
I don't think the idea of "this is a common practice" is really a compelling defense. Most people don't realise that, or at least don't grasp the extent of it. I'm sure you could make similar videos about other similar things that would cause other similar reactions. It's just more obvious when it's a box of cookies previously sold at $10 that's now sold at $28 because an influencer is selling them. If it was laid out as simply that a company is selling $3 olive oil at $15 because it has a cool bottle, I'm sure a lot of people would find that ridiculous too. Personally, I already think that of bottled waters.
There's also the difference in how people see a faceless corporation and how people see a known influencer personality. People to some extent expect a profit driven company to charge what they can get away with for a product, but an online personality that feels like a friend and is marketing directly to them "feels" like they should be trying to do their fans a solid deal.
I don’t think “most people don’t understand how things work” is a compelling defense for collective public rage
You are currently arguing against the concept of capitalism, you are not mad at Poki, you are mad at the economic system that you are under. "Popular person can make a product sell better and for more" is tech that we figured out in like 1200BCE
This is the only take I want--the one that comprehends the story beyond "WAMMIN BAD" or "INCEL STFU".
I saw the tweet in question and immediately thought "this sounds like a perfect topic for NetShaq to cover!"
Also I like the aspect ratio of this video
Shaq probably messed up on the pricing on purpose to generate controversy and promote his brand. Good Work Bro!
goatse is the GOAT cookie...
Is it just me or is this video super low quality? 3:4 aspect ratio, bad image quality, weird audio.
I can excuse all the drama, but what I find hilarious is that these streamers often times frame things as either sustainable, more morally right or some other feel good stuff, but this cookie uses palm oil which is absolutely horrendous for the environment. In Norway you are hard pressed to find ANY product that contains palm oil.
It feels like the people getting mad at this are so close to the truth, but their hate from pokimaine has made them lose the forest for the trees. The reality they've gotten close to is that basically all entrepreneurship is fraudulant, a person, pays a food scientist to come up with a cookie formulation, outsources the production to an oem factory, pays an artist to design the packaging, and then pays someone to market the product. After all that we say the entrepreneur "started a cookie brand" but, what exactly did they do, what about this cookie is a result of them. This is true for most products, pokimaine is in essence engaging in the falshood of capitalism that every person with money does, people just got uniquley angry about it when she did it.
For the record i find it kind of distasteful but its not only pokimaine doing it, i've lost count of the number of times a youtuber has claimed "im starting a company" only for the reality to be that some marketing dickhead at influencer brands r us, approached them with a fullly formed company they only have to put their name on, Its activley dishonest
27 views in 9 seconds wowee
I am a bit miffed that they are branded as healthy cookies when they are almost exactly as healthy as any standard cookie with an unnecessary amount of vitamin D added. More of an issue with health marketing as a whole than Poki though
Pokimane is so mid, calling her mid feels like I’m wildly flattering her
what's this now? why's Pokimane making cookie flavored tea?
There's a peach oolong Oreo I really want to try but for $10 I can't justify it
intérnét sháquilé
good video bla bla bla.... the real question is who the f pays 10 dollars for 400g of (probably mediocre?) cookies?
I dont live in america, but I wouldnt pay more than 3€ for 400g of storebought cookies
edit: just finished the video, guess i am silly :/
What kind of pokimon is this
hi shaq
Yeah dawg based on how you replied to me in the past I’m not surprised you’re siding w poki on this one.
🍪
From what I understand, the controversy isn't as much the pricing as it was her response when her own fans, concerned with the high pricing of the cookies (which is still an understandable concern when you pay 28$ for 400 grams of cookies), seen as condescending, dismissive and rude, calling her fans idiots and "broke boys" ("I know math is hard when you’re an idiot, but like, if you’re a broke boy just say so.")
Nevertheless it was a nice informative video that made me discover this secondary channel of yours, and I'm glad I clicked on it :)
I would have agreed with everything you said before she told upset people to "just admit you're a broke boy"
To your end question, fuck no. I don't want more millionaires starting another brand. Last thing we need is funneling more money to useless twitch streamers.
What was the question
Alright, don't buy any stuff influencers sell and boom problemo solved, not sure why everyone is acting like she is currently committing a war crime
there is no ethical consumption
"surely nobody actually expects... ...nobody is really that silly"
Man, I wish. There are a lot of silly people out there though.
I discovered a 'message board' in 2008 and i thought it was nothing but 'nameless' trolls trolling trolls. Turns out some of them were serious. (Poe's law on Internet culture)
lmao
I think the video needs some rework. White labelling is common practice, but inflating the price to exploit the parasocial relationship is rather vile. I could commend her effort if it wasn't obvious that this is a cash grab and the brand is going to be gone in a year or two
Everyone look one of the guys I was talking about is here
@@netshaq2 I mean, accept critique or don't. But this video starts on an incorrect premise, that's no foundation for an argument.
I mean, the very first article I read on this pointed out the white labeling practise is the norm, but that her content reduction plus inflation isn't. It dramatically changes the perspective of this. She's not creating anything here, just slapping a sticker on the broth
@@mattymattffs It think its just really not that important, an influencer made a dumb product and was a little mean, if that is your biggest issue you are dealing with today then you are in great fucking shape my man, just be happy about that
@@xXEGPXx I didn't really say the issue was important. I did say that starting on an incorrect premise changes the entire argument drastically. It's the basics of debate.
@@mattymattffs People are so poisoned by debate culture, not everything is a debate, not everything needs to be taken seriously, it just doesn't fucking really matter at all