For 2 years all I heard at my last job was "Noone wants to work, everyone just wants to sit on unemployment, everyone is lazy". I've been applied to 30 jobs this week, all within my field and experience level. I've followed up with most of them unless instructed not to. Not one called back. They advertise the same jobs at the same places every week. I've even applied to several jobs requiring "experience or willingness to learn". I'm technically proficient, well mannered, educated, and persistent. Not one has given me the chance despite my willingness to learn and actually follow up. I'm self employed but it's not enough anymore. What am I missing? Guy in his 40's, fit, open schedule.... But all these employers are "desperate" for people who want to work. Something fishy about that. It's like they want a skeleton crew to save money but complain about being short-staffed.
I would say the business either tries to be cheapskate so they can save extra money or taking government kickbacks for having a shortage on workers (there was some talk about it I heard floating around RUclips, but I don't know how much of it that is true).
They want desperate workers who don’t know their value. Try applying to a job at a company you wouldn’t dream of being qualified to work at, and thank me later
I’ve been a machinist for 12 years. Another problem as to why no one is entering these fields is that for the longest time (and to an extent things are still this way) shops and businesses weren’t willing to give anyone their first job in the industry. Everyone only wanted people with experience. I went the military route (Navy) and got my experience that way. Because I am young I am now expected to pull 60 hour weeks and soon they want me training people too. 70% of my coworkers retire in less than 3 years. This problem was caused not only by educators and lifestyle changes, but also by employers.
Machinist of 5 years here, our shop has same problem. Can't find people to hire, the ones they do hire aren't mechanically inclined. Half our shop including my mentor are retiring in next 5 years, and it takes years to learn some of the ins and outs of these machines, especially when production always come first.
@@supersmegma9801 Production has came first for 30-40 years from what I can tell. The employers don’t care about making sure that there is a sustainable work force. The only thing they care about is increasing their profit. I hate sounding like a cynic but that’s the truth of it.
One thing that tech companies are great at is creating new ways to cultivate talent. There are ways to improve a situation like that, but it takes an investment into building processes that aren't typically aligned with machine shops. Think six sigma, and what it takes to tool up for it. Another thought would be to start an apprenticeship program. You could also look for older "new machinists" that are transitioning out of other careers. Alternatively, you could go heavy into automation with the ever increasing complexity and usefulness of robotic CNC machines and processes where one person can manage many runs at multiple stations. Lot's of fertile ground for creative thinking!
My daughter calls my wife and I "Homesteaders" because we tend to do most things ourselves without needing to call others to help. We were tickled and took it has a compliment, though I am not sure she meant it as such. I wrote down a list of the things we do ourselves and it is quite extensive. Let's just say we do our own electrical, remodeling, plumbing, appliance repair, landscaping, operate heavy equipment (excavators, etc.), legal documents (wills, patents, etc.), do our own taxes, woodworking, computer building, home automation and security, electronics ( Raspberry PI projects, speakers, built home made computer monitor), home networking, installed solar panels, built play structures and a plywood skateboard halfpipe with grind rails, etc. I was raised on a farm.
If it wasn’t for all the regulations the licensing, EPA, OSHA, etc etc…most people would be more inclined to be self sufficient but you have to jump through all these hoops and if someone finds out then you get fined by the city county etc..not to mention the planned obsolescence, and anti-right to repair culture we live in it’s no surprise more people don’t subscribe your lifestyle
Grew up on a 365 acre dairy farm and when I was a small child our first home my father built from the ground up. It was an amazing two story home with a spiraling staircase. There was nothing my father could not create with his hand. My daughter started violin lessons at the age of four and one day my dad decided to make her a violin. After about 10 violins he finally made the one that had the perfect sound and she has that to this day. What an amazing mind to be able to accomplish such things in life.
I owned a ornamental and industrial Blacksmith shop for over 40 years. My kids grew up in the shop. My daughter was a good machinist by the time she was 16. Both kids saw how hard I had to work to make a living. My daughter was put in charge of a lot of projects in college because she knew how to use tools build things. She's a large animal vet now. My son has a nuclear engineering degree, but his 1st job at university was because he could weld and build things. Being able to think in 3D is a whole different world then most people think. Talk to some teachers and they have no idea what your talking about. Some of the dumbest people I've met have PHD's and some of the smartest have no degrees.
I deeply apologize but I became a university lecturer with only a BA degree. My colleagues had PhD degrees. One or two everyone wondered how the “H “they ever got a PhD degree. It wasn’t that they were bad people, just stupid. I was never good with my hands at physical labor. But show me phonology or phonetics and I instantly understand and can elaborate like Mozart did on the piano. Hence dickering right now with Cambridge University Press over a book on English pronunciation I wrote seven years ago and left on a hard drive. I have never printed it out. We all have different talents. I see mine as a kind of cross between music and mathematics but not really like either. I was very bad at shop class. The funny thing is I know a woman who is a mathematician who is a great furniture maker, has her own power tools and workshop. For her it’s a hobby.
Read E.M. Forester’s “ The Machine Stops” 1909. Early SciFi. He also wrote “ A Room with a View” among other movies in the 19th and early 20th Centuries.
My brother was a “hands on” mechanical genius-you know them as the “guys who can fix anything.” He was ill served by the educational system that was always testing him and announcing how “dumb he was.” He barely made it, academically, out of high school. Fortunately, during his stint in the Navy, he discovered he was an auditory genius and became an electrician without opening a book. It was hands on experience and “figuring” things out that released his genius. He went on to become a successful contractor and electrician-running his OWN business. Our educational system is broken. It is one size fits all and that is just flat out wrong!!
I can't even fix a leaky tap. I am confused as to how your brother could become an electrician without opening a book. I can't see how he could just figure things out by himself. Do you mean he was trained by someone or some people by showing him and speaking to him? If he didn't have help surely he would have electrocuted himself? Electricity doesn't have moving parts that you can look at and then figure out. I did 2 years of a degree and can barely wire up a plug.
@@richardswaby6339 Some people like me are no good at books and exams but when the machine is in front of us, I can fix it. I had a team leader once he was really good technically in books and theory but when he went out to fix stuff, he was useless.
@@richardswaby6339’m a tradesman and am competent in HVAC, plumbing, and electrical. I even work on my own cars. If I hear someone taught themselves everything and didn’t even bother reading a book about the basic concepts of these trades, I don’t want them working around me. If you don’t bother reading books, you don’t bother with reading wiring diagrams and sequence of operations manuals. These are the people that are dangerous to work with and tend to overinflate their skills and competency. I also see this completely self made mentality as a slap in the face to the people that helped you along the way. I won’t downplay the people who helped me out along the way to get me proficient in my trades.
I agree with Ms. Grandin. It was the cost of maintaining them and the huge liability issues that killed shop classes. They probably used the "tracking" controversy as an excuse to not spend the money. I used to work in a high school and I remember some of those conversations happening on the micro scale. I am sure they were happening on the macro scale as well. Tangentially related - I later attended a vocational school for HVAC. The first year we had a lot of teachers who had worked in the field and were able to communicate what a repair tech needed to know clearly. Then they went through the accreditation process which meant they needed teachers to have masters degrees and these extremely competent people were replaced with people who were trying to explain graduate level physics to us which was utterly useless. That was in the late 90's.
Nail on the head. I was in Middle/High school in '85-'92, and I had a lot of friends who focused on shop, or just went to the VoTech school altogether. We used to make fun, but a few years later, they were laughing. Once I had my own kids in school, I kept asking teachers and admin where did these opportunities go?! Makes me wonder where unions (skilled labor ones, obviously) are finding their apprentices.
@@jasmadams As Jacqueline suggested, I'd expect liability to be a HUGE factor here. Most counties aren't financially equipped to handle the insurance costs for accidents caused by working this kind of machinery. At least when I was in school those hands-on classes seemed to have shifted over to architecture/CAD, graphics design, and programming. These days robotics has been added to that lineup for some school systems.
As CEO's outsourced to China & beyond for cheap labour, at home the public was being sold that the Trades were a dying industry & therefore investment in the trades was pushed as a bad investment. Our economic system is very much to blame as CEO's are incentivized by law to look for the cheapest production cost with little regulation (regulation that was created after years of fatality). The missing piece to this puzzle is human evolution. The industrialization of the late 19th & 20th century came at a MASSIVE cost to human life. Ie. Factory workers being locked in to work by factory owners & then burning to death in fire. Or a farmer having his body pulled into a grain combine/ harvester. Laws were then enacted to protect trade workers & regulation was a legal way to make this happen.
"Totally removed from the practical" - Temple has that exactly. Our society values people who know "about" things, like Jeopardy contestants, but not people who can "do" things. Our children have elaborate toys made and purchased for them, rather than the child developing their own toys. Lego sales prove that point - the most popular toy ever invented - because the child has to make things from it. I was a shop teacher for 32 years. By the time I retired the number of shop teachers in the district was down 80%. And nobody cared. Valuable practical courses were discarded in favour of classes that would benefit no student. Courses for which no exams could be set, as no method of objective measurement was available. I have always said "If you can't measure the outcomes in the student you can't claim to have taught them anything". I was accused of having a "skills hang-up", as if that was an insult. I'm long since retired. I won't ever teach again. But I still do for myself and my family what I used to teach. Most of my former students are middle-aged. But if I see them in my travels I always ask the same thing "What are you doing?" And the answers are diverse, but linked. From fighter pilots to machinists to auto techs, to boat builders - they are doing practical work, are well paid, and enjoy it. From that I take some comfort, compensation for an employer who discarded and de-valued the work I did.
Yes I know exactly what you're talking about! From the start of my high school through my HS graduation, I watched the technology classes dwindle. The year after I graduated they got rid of the welding/metal shop to put in a computer center (circa 1993). It was also a sad time for the sales people who followed in my grandfather's footsteps. My grandpa sold machinery (Rockwell/Delta/South bend/Time Saver...) to schools and industry in the mid west (mostly Minnesota). By the time he retired his replacements couldn't sell anything because all the schools got rid of their tech classes to welcome in the computer age. Computers are fine and CNCs can do some great stuff, but seriously, a true machinist (e.g. RUclipsr "This Old Tony" is worth his weight in gold.
My Dad has been a Civil Engineer my whole life. He used to supervise the building of bridges, roads, etc. His company has had many government contracts where they have built things for them all over the United States. (Last bridge he helped supervise building before he got sick with cancer was the Tillikum bridge in Portland, OR. Btw, if anyone is wondering, my Dad beat the cancer (twice) and has been doing well now. He is hoping to go back to work at 70. The man is a Terminator! lol) He has always told me that they have to be constantly vigilant of contractors that are brought in cutting corners, whether it be to save money, or out of pure laziness. He says it happens A LOT! One of his jobs at these places was to ensure that the contractors hired to do various jobs on whatever project they were doing, were using the proper materials/specified measurements/etc. (Many of these big infrastructure projects, bridges, highways, and more; tend to have MANY contractors working on them, doing different things.) My Dad has told me so many times the .most common arguments and problems on the many sites he has worked at, is contractors trying to cut corners. They would try to get away with using cheaper materials (weaker materials), they would rush through things, do shoddy work, and so much more. He said he would get into arguments with these guys all the time after catching them in the act, or afterward. They would always try and defend the decision, act like total assholes when confronted. Many times, he told me that if they hadn't caught this kind of thing before the project was finished, the consequences could be catastrophic! I am talking bridges collapsing, and much more. He says this stuff happens on damn near EVERY project to some degree! Many are not caught because others are not being as vigilant in looking for the problems. He told me, often, if a bridge collapsed, or there was some kind of failure, chances are it would probably end up being caused by some asshole contractor who cut corners and got away with it. Just like the example Temple Granden used when referring to that collapsed bridge. This happens ALL THE TIME.
The person paying for the project (gov) wants it to be cheap(where you think those fancy suits an dinners come from?) and our roads are a great example of that. So low bidders win, and now begins the process of squeezing out as much profit as possible from the project. NOT the attitude that what is being built is to serve society and should be of the highest integrity. Unfortunately this compounds like an upside down pyramid regarding the money/profit. And before you go saying ANYTHING about us guys doing the ACTUAL WORK. REALIZE its the political crap that dictates how refined and to what quality of work we are allowed to meet. How are we doing to build nice stuff with the crap tools they provide, or the low quality materials, or the underpaid labor that bangs everything up and doesn't give a dam because thats how they are treated??? Not to mention these subpar architects these days and their absolute inability to design anything aesthetically pleasing anymore and these builds are not fun... seriously designs these days are so bad that as a carpenter, half my work is doing the architects/engineers jobs out in the field, aka "make it work" or "figure it out". Thats mostly on a microscale but think of a tv and the picture on it, takes millions of pixels, these big jobs where you got all these little corners cut, ends up adding up to like what the guy said, could be catastrophic. Because the entire job is profit driven the true purpose of it is completely ignored. We have the materials, We have the skilled tradesmen, We have the money, We have everything we need to accomplish amazing feats(technology)! Unfortunately greed has poisoned mens souls and society is paying the price. Its in our face everywhere with everything at this point. Its a matter of having people speak up... but no one does out of fear. "i'll lose my job"...
I gained such a respect for tradesman after working with a guy who could do anything practical. I watched him solve problems and was able to learn how to do it myself from him. He was not verbally skilled at all and could barely express himself but his problem solving ability was immense. He became more verbal when he was drinking and his humour was also sophisticated.
Many highly skilled musicians work the same way. Right hemispherical thought or highly intuitive processes that don't need to be explained to be effective and highly productive.
We need to value these great minds (for that is what they are in their own way), and stop valuing the uselessness of smooth talkers (like bureaucrats and politicians).
@@jamesfield6431 that was your take-away from my comment? I consider myself as “in the trades” - I’m an RN that went to a vo-tech school. My father was a welder in the military. And we homeschool our boys, hoping they will consider a trade. My comment was regarding the broad cultural “we”.
As a senior engineer for my employer, I have been reminding supervisors that upcoming engineers need to get on ladders and get their collective fingers dirty to harden the connection between what is drawn on computer screens and reality. I was fortunate to have a father (millwright and a machinist) that fostered discovery of all things mechanical. We had unfettered access to a tiny machine shop in the back yard and his motto was "if you can visualize it, we will get the raw materials and make it". Consequently I was operating various forms of mills, presses, and cutting tools before I was ten years old and taking apart as many things as I was building. It fostered an healthy respect for what you can do with metals and wood and how quickly it can also put you in harms way. I wish I still had the chance to thank him every time he took my mother aside and silenced her when she expressed concern for my health and well being since she the overprotective type. My later teens and early twenties were spent in construction because no-one wanted to risk hiring a "fresh' engineering student. The D.I.E. thinking had not permeated these fields yet and employers valued work experience over meeting quotas. My real world experiences remain invaluable because now I can mentor those willing to be taught. I usually ignore those who get added as an obstacle in my path when they consider themselves superior when they cannot describe a basic electro-mechanical relay's operation. It is obvious they were added to the company because some idiot in the H.R. department thought it good to check a box. My generation (X) survived the fast paced modernization of our world and remain productive due our ability to learn without the aid of computers, smart phones, and the internet. Those of us remaining feel like we are the dwindling glue holding the world together behind the curtain. We will be missed when no-one attempts to learn from our mistakes.
I am glad that my granduncle advised me to cross-train my educational background. I took up physics specializing in astro-physics while "CROSS TRAINED" in mechanical engineering specializing in MACHINE TOOL TECHNOLOGIES and that means getting our hands dirty and oiled up! We first learn how to use a basic manual engine lathe and use it to make an duplicate engine lathe directly and indirectly and multi-indirectly (several stages of machining) and use it to make a metal planer which in turn is used to make a much more precise engine lathe which in turn is used to make a much more precise metal planer and so forth and so on. Then we were instructed to make a much larger and much more precise engine lathe and metal planer and we did it all in "STAGES" and that also includes in making the micro-meter, calipers, rulers, angle measuring rulers, templates, indexing plates, disc plates, slide rules, vise, lathe chuck, and other work holding components, jigs, fixtures, modular - expandable jigs and fixtures, movable work tables, bolt lockers, tool holders, dies, tool bits, the list is very long and too long. Not only did we make the movable work table but we also make the movable machining equipment on top of it or side of it. We learn also how to make bearings and all of it's components and revolving metal seals using cross hatch machining techniques to make an airtight and water tight and oil tight and gas tight and pressure tight and vacuum tight revolving and sliding metal seals. NO HIGH TECH STUFF ALLOWED! It is because of these educational courses, which were still being maintained as the strict curriculum in Russia, that all scientists and engineers, a good proportion of them, can turn their mathematical calculations and blue prints into a workable machined tooled prototypes. And valuable hands on experiences in dealing with the unpredictable conditions and situations and circumstances and wisdoms and tricks and tips and techniques were all written down and recorded and microfilmed and recopied many times over for distribution. This is the advantage we have over these so-called high-tech CNC ROBOTIZED MACHINE TOOLS because they cannot handle or record or observe in real time valuable events and be able to comprehend and interpret them in REAL TIME AND IN TIME so that it can also be recorded and recopied and passed on to the others. And then from the basic and simple manual engine (1) lathes and (2) metal planers we went in making the (3) drill press, the (4) shaper, the (5) milling machine, (6) the bending machine, the (7) broachers, (8) hydraulic presses, (9) steam pressure gravity drop forgers, (10) steam forgers and (11) pneumatic forgers. Then we went to specialized and customized machine tools used in making screws, bolts, nuts, washers, and rivets which are the glue that held them all together, plus the braces and reinforcers to hold the multi-component based-machine tool platforms. Then we start making steam engines of all kinds. Electric motors of all kinds. Diesel engines of all kinds. Gasoline engines of all kinds. We were taught to learn how to use the machine tools to make the specialized machine tools and customized machine tools needed to make the final manufacturing machines in making the basic electrical metal components and basic electrical non-metal ceramic and plastic components (we started with bakelite plastic) and in making the machines used in making copper wires and the rubber insulating machines and the machines used in making the copper making machines and rubber insulating machines. And in turn in making the machines used in making synthetic rubbers and in used in mining-processing-smelting-refining copper ores into copper wires, and so forth and so on. These went on for more than 8 years alongside with my physics (specializing in astro-physics) and in mechanical engineering (specializing in machine tool technology). And then all of our teachers that all manufactured goods came from factories that in turn were built by machine building factories that in turn were built by heavy engineering factories that in turn were built by machine tool engineering factories which in turn were built by the same machine tool building factories themselves. For machine tools are the only machines that can reproduce themselves and manufacture themselves. On the 9th year we were tested again and again and again until all of our teachers KNEW AND ARE ONLY SATISFIED that their students has become better than the teachers themselves. Then on the 10th year were we allowed to graduate. AND I CAN VOUCH FOR ALL OF MY CLASSMATES THAT WE ARE ALL TIRED AND GLAD THAT WE ALL MADE IT TO THE TOP! ALL OF US. That was 28 years ago. Russia at that time was in turmoil but on the way of being stabilized by a small clique of core KGB-GRU responsible for our upbringing and care and now we are working for that small clique of Putin's circle as teachers of the next generation of students under our wings. This is what we call ourselves as the "BAND OF BROTHERS" which we adapted from a television series of yours.
@Jordan Peterson You’re doing long form academic interviews with an entire group of academics who have been shut out of the news cycle for 30+ years. Thankyou.
@@Max-bi8fn well known for sticking her foot in her mouth?? She literally attempted to argue that schools aren't predominantly ran by women. Parents not raising children and schools raising them is a large part of societies issues today. Women are more likely to attempt to teach a child their way of thinking vs a man. Scientists should actually be able to question statements and make rational assessments
She is a firebrand! Very refreshing to hear someone speaking honestly about real issues and with deep knowledge. We need many more voices like these two in today's society.
👍 dutiful vassals ... hard serving serfs .... good ol yard filler ... mulch .. . it's great, "to be more practical" = " be useful" Sounds better than " Get used, and take it with a smile. ........................................ "Do it Or else face punishment," Sounds better than "Face unwarranted vengeance/hostility/ oppression or violence" " or being put to disadvantage by over entitled peers whose belief of the vaule in their labor becomes threatened By your inactivity"...... ................. They will one day realize that all the money they had worked for Was only used to cheat them out of their time .. and thus had given away their entire fortune . Without even realizing it Business is all about the " Up sell." Because if not, there is no money to be made .... ..I can have ideas all day ... If people buy them, it's because people are dumb.or Indoctrinated.. anybody buying an item ... is actually selling their time..... And anybody who's selling an item Is stealing time ... and giving away their Expedient... ......... If I trade fair .. That means if I invest 1... I get 1 back. that means I'm not any wealthier than when i had started...PERIOD!!! Your joy is all you're paying for... And suffering can teach us how to find joy ... but there is no joy with Suffering that which entails no thought... They profess money.....choking on money....mouthfuls.... And that's if I even live long enough to see a return..... nobody is guaranteed tomorrow ....... now is all we get ... .................................... And "People are Growing up away from practical"... Sounds better for a premise than "People that aren't indoctrinated"
My husband just retired last year from teaching shop (woodworking, small engine repair, robotics mechanical drawing, CAD, etc.). Several reasons contribute to the decline of shop classes. As Dr. Grandin says, schools think everyone is going to go to college; manual laborers/blue collar workers have been demonized for decades as less intelligent and less important than college educated persons working in white collar jobs. The trades were for dummies who couldn't make it in college. It's tragic! The trades are so vital to the effective functioning of our society. And the pay is terrific in most markets. I can tell you that the most popular class my husband ever taught was the Home Maintenance and Repairs class. And he encouraged girls to take his classes, they proved to be some of his best students. Many students are hungry for these classes and have talents that can be nurtured and developed to the betterment of all.
I am an older man and the first shop class I had was in 7th grade. We all took shop every year until we graduated. Small engine repair, welding and woodworking. Those classes, shop and home economics, prepared many of us for the real world far more than any other course. Like when one nerd asks the others if he knows how a car engine works? They reply "of course!" Then when asked if he can fix one he looks down and says, "No."
I'm on the older side as well, but when I entered high school in 1976, that was the year they moved shop classes to the new vo-tech school up the road. You went half a day, but if you did, you couldn't take the "college prep" versions of the academic classes. The schedules just wouldn't work out.
@@jkbrown5496 Channelizing the youth. As if a grounding in mechanics is no good for some destined for a university, and a knowledge of university subjects, doesn't benefit a mechanic.
@@sanniepstein4835 That was gone by the late ‘70s. Not wrongly at that time as the trades were overflowing with all the 20-somethings dumped out of the factories when they closed. And now those men of the ‘70s are in their 70s and there are few in the pipeline as “to be successful in life you must go to college” has been the chant.
You got that from the movie "October Sky," didn't you? I remember a scene in that movie where that exchange almost happens exactly that way. Not complaining, just seemed funny to me.
I totally agree with the points both of them made about how moving off the farm removes the hands-on practical experience in a wide variety of skills. You learn how to improvise when you need your equipment fixed fast and can't afford to pay someone else to fix it or you can't wait for them to fix it. My father was a machinist who came off the farm. Over the years, he saw a totally different level of understanding in the kids from the city coming out of shop class from the kids who came from the farms who had been practicing mechanical skills their entire lives. I like to watch homesteader youtubers, and I watch the fathers in those videos training their sons and daughters. Sometimes the father will teach a skill to the child, but sometimes the father will turn the child loose to figure it out on their own with a few guiding principles. When you figure it out on your own, you have a far deeper understanding and become far more creative in your problem solving skills. The other thing you learn on the farm is the work ethic. That may be the bigger problem that Jordan is skipping over. If you are motivated to work and have experience at working hard, then you will figure out how to do a different kind of work, and learning the tools and the skills is just part of the job.
I hear people complain about $100 oil changes for cars and i can't understand why someone would pay that much. 90 percent of the oil change is gravity. I find that people are buying electric cars for reasons like that, and they can't change a flat tire either.
There is also the problem of manufacturers making their stuff impossible to repair (even illegal to repair) by design. see also Louis Rossman. Now there would be a good guy to interview.
I have decades of experience of being a general contractor and I know many things about the procedures and the mathematics of Contracting. Recently I had a potential customer that was a academically educated woman that was trying to compare my price with the price of a non contractor what we call a jackleg who didn't know what he was talking about, while trying to get me to do the work at his price. As I started to explain the details of what actually was needed to be done and why, she accused me of just trying to do mansplaining just to justify a higher price, even though she didn't let me finish and knew nothing about what I was trying to explain to her benefit. She proceeded to tell me how she was an educated woman, indicating I wasn't as smart as she was. Because of her arrogance, I informed her it was not my privilege to work for her for what any price she wanted to pay and that I was not interested in doing the work. I happen to be white and she then accused me of having white privilege and being a racist. If this is the result of formal education I am very glad that I did not get a formal education.
I'm an Industrial Mechanic. In my opinion, people who went to school for a trade are typically far inferior to those who learned it from experience. This discussion is faulty because as psychologists, they have a bias towards formal and classroom education. Trades need to be learned through years of hobby and necessity, or through apprenticeship. I mostly work on robots now, and nearly all of my peers had spent a lifetime of building things, fixing things, and taking them apart since they were a small child, with apprenticeship in the form of employment in the field to sharpen them into extreme competence. There is a fearlessness, a confidence, that comes with taking things apart and making things with your hands as a child. Adults are beaten into fear of failure, "that's too hard", "I might mess it up", "I don't know how to do that", which trade people never learned. We will figure it out, if we mess it up, we'll fix it on the second attempt. You can't teach that fearlessness in a classroom.
@@Rawdiswar card is american slang for a type of comedian. I wouldn't use that term on Grandin. She wants to dominate the conversation at every step. Annoying
@@0utdoorsman You can be right on the merits of your argument, but you can fail that argument by virtue of being the vessel conveying it and how you go about that. Some people commented they could tell she 'had to stand up for herself a lot' (in life). That's not an excuse to interrupt somebody half-way through their point. Like some sort of verbal incontinence. You can still respond and make your point if you literally wait for like 5 more seconds. Instead, her behaviour plays into all the negative stereotypes about women, i.e. Karen etc. It's like a feminist's perception of what male behaviour is typically like and their adoption of it, i.e. loud, obnoxious, domineering, interrupting. This is almost an example of what JP talks about when he says - don't be harmless, become a monster, and then learn to control it. She is not in control here.
I raised my kids to be able to do most house work themselves. Everything from changing their own tires, checking and changing their own oil. Changing light switches safely. Basically all the shit men back in the day were expected to do. My twin daughters and my son could do everything and they were happy to be able to do it. I remember some of their friends coming to me to teach them how to do stuff, how to work on their own cars etc. I even showed the wife how to rebuild both a lawn mower engine and later on with the help of a few books a 350 chevy motor as well. For me it's hard to understand why people are so afraid of this now days. I mean yeah I've used an electrician and a plumber for some things, I don't know it all but simple shit it's just unacceptable that people can't or won't do it themselves. Some one below me mentioned that he ran into problems with people expecting you to have experience when you're fresh into the market, I ran into that as well in my youth. I flatly lied a few times to get a job. I knew I could do it and I did it. I dunno, I'm glad I'm old and don't have much time left. This world has gone to shit and the only thing that's gonna fix it is a big ass war to snap everyone back into reality. What's the quote,,,, "Hard times make hard men, hard men make soft times, soft times make soft men, soft men make hard times." Probably not accurately quoted, but yeah people have it to easy now days, they got far to much free time to sit and whine about bullshit.
That quite about soft men is true and all but when you consider how much the west vilifies masculinity it makes the problem even worse. In the UK they can't even recruit enough men into the military, they are erasing masculinity and eventually we will reach the end of our civilization.
As a multi tradesmen, residential, commercial, industrial technicians I can attest this is spot on. I have been saying for years that capable tradesmen will be the most valuable workers in the future.
Oh so right Jack. The This Old House tradesmen have been saying this for years. My Dad was concerned,too. He was a Tool and Die engineer and designer. Very sought after by the big Three for help with design and dies. I know carpenters who are very concerned. It's a huge concern.
@@aorg9793 Can't argue that. I get through most nasty work days thinking, " Well look at the bright side, at least nobody is shooting at us ". I foresee the capable trades people being the most valued in the not to distant future. I always get a kick out this front line workers are heroes narrative. The trades are the line.
Sadly we lost the Mind and Hand effort to make schools that train both expression by writing and speaking and by creation by hand. The effort was to teach by doing and use that to give the theory relevance. They are reinventing this as if it was never thought of before, but MIT was founded on the principle then muddied their mission with more theory than hands on. "In the light of this analysis Carlyle's rhapsody on tools becomes a prosaic fact, and his conclusion-that man without tools is nothing, with tools all-points the way to the discovery of the philosopher's stone in education. For if man without tools is nothing, to be unable to use tools is to be destitute of power; and if with tools he is all, to be able to use tools is to be all-powerful. And this power in the concrete, the power to do some useful thing for man-this is the last analysis of educational truth." -Charles H. Ham, Mind and Hand: manual training, the chief factor in education (1900) (1886)
I am a Master Tech and Welder with 24+ years under my belt. I have watched the fall of qualified techs in the field here in the states. We are living in a disposable economy.
Same brother. I work in residential/commercial service plumbing. I'm trying to learn all i can before the older guys retire. So many people are just installers of parts. They dont know how to troubleshoot plumbing problems. They want to replace everything. Some of what i see is atrocious. I dont pretend to he the best, but there is a lot of sloppy and just dangerous work going on.
I am becoming an electrician and the union has all these tests and procedures. Aftet that thay put you on a waiting list. But that makes less sense because there is a shortage of labor and a surplus of demand. I would rather have 1 year of lower wage work and earning my aprentestship then wate for the higher paid work. So now I am scrambling for various work on my own just to move up the list faster. It goes like this, application, 2 aptitude tests, 3 interviews, put on a waiting list, get an approved construction job inorder to improve your list ranking, retake the interviews, move up the list, wate, receive the union contract, re- interview, your in. That being said you get 2 pensions, higher wages (even after union dues), union training (in addition to your on job training and aprentestship), contractor pays your insurance (you dont need to pay for insurance), additional optional training after completing your first training, educational partnerships with colleges that allow you to wave all general education programs and gain a degree (or 2 if you want), if you cant get a job after 1 year they can transfer you to another state for work.
I lived in Minneapolis when the I-35W bridge over the Mississippi river collapsed. That bridge was being renovated. Yes, it was “too light”, but the real reason for the collapse is that large portions of the roadbed were removed, revealing in plain sight the supporting structures and the river below to tens-of-thousands of passing motorists EVERY DAY, detoured to one side of the bridge. HALF of the bridge over lengthy spans was without the structural benefit of the roadbed which was tying-together the steel beams, struts, and various bracings. Many structures rely on a ‘skin’, such as plywood, or even sheetrock to unitize the entire structure into a reliable, distributed load-bearing mass. The bridge is no different, just bigger. The gusset plates and the corroded metal connections of the already under-built bridge were thus made much weaker by the removal of its “skin”. What’s more, the demolition involved vibrations of jackhammers and heavy equipment, further compromised the strength, such as it was, while also permitting thousands of vehicles such as mine to pass by each day-all concentrated to just one side. The foremost cause of the catastrophe was the faulty renovation procedures and should have been assigned to the Contractor, the Construction Plan Reviewers, Inspectors, and the plans of the engineer(s) who all failed to consider, oversee, and/or ignored the inevitable consequences of the work methods and traffic management. I realize this note is a tangent and not an especially direct comment on the conversation between Grandin and Peterson. But after all these years, and not having heard or read of anyone criticizing what I have noted here, I felt like contributing my perspective.
My dad was a structural steel draftsman in Minnesota. That bridge that fell down I’m Minneapolis was the sort of thing he warned me about, that bridges were being built that would not support the growth that would hit the highway infrastructure. Bridges was what he specialized in.
@@john0270 Dude, math is heavily involved in building bridges... I learned how to build bridge models in shop class... How do you not know this? You must be generation Z...🤣
I’d like to point out, that many of the old bridges and structures in Europe were built at a time when less than a dozen or so mathematicians existed and could do basic long division. Many of the bridges and aqueducts were constructed in Ancient Rome before simple algebra was a thing. My point isn’t to debate the importance of mathematics and science in structural mechanics, but to however point out that trial and error and experience can take you a very very long ways. As a Society we tend to over emphasize calculation, over experience and I’m concerned we’ll pay dearly in the coming years.
Common ground of material competencies so fertile here. Love them both so much for this work! I took auto mechanics as a girl in high school in the 70s. I was later dxed autistic. Spent childhood deep in the woods, with horses and cows and goats, worked on dairy farms in college, ...I finally got advanced Algebra concepts from studying DC circuits. My analytical ability took off from the digital electronics course I took. HANDS ON is my style. Real world applications. Material competencies, yep.
@@ROTALOT I taught shop for forty years. I learned that there are eight billion persons in the world and that they all have different gifts. Gifts. Not disabilities needing interventions. Schools need to find the gifts and fan the flames of giftedness. You know immediately when a school system has nothing to offer when they rely heavily on one size fits all standardized testing.
I totally agree our world is turning into people who can't use a pair of scissors, or repair or build even the simplest things. I haven't heard anything about Dr. temple Grandin for a long time. It's so great to hear of the vital work she is continuing to do.
Oh fuck like honestly if they aren't super sharp scissors then like I always feel like I struggle to cut what I need to cut sometimes if it is super flimsy
Yeah it's getting sad out there I worked with a guy 32 years old he was stuck because he didn't know how to pump gas. His parents always did it for him.
I was working on an oil sands site and I was fired for not taking the vaccine. There are vacancies for the exact job I was doing, and I reached out to come back to work and my employer is flat out ignoring me. They would rather have a vacancy and worsen the labor shortage, spend a year training someone new with time resources they don't have, then even speak to me again because they know I was right and they were wrong and they can never admit the mandates were bad. They have the exact same issue. They don't have enough trainers to train new people and it kills them to pull the most experienced people off the job to train. Employers try hiring educated book doofuses to train new workers and I can testify with first hand knowledge when you do this you only get more dummies trained by dummies to be dummies. They don't have enough HR staff to onboard people fast enough. It's spiraling out of control and the solution at corporate is to keep censoring people who question them and their failing policies to prevent a worker rebellion which is coming by the way.
I grew up a farm girl. And once I was involved in a community project, where a bunch of college students came to help beautify a school. These big strong guys didn’t know how to open a can of paint or how to transplant a tree. I was really shocked.
I think millennials are the first generation where the technology has become too advanced and changes too quickly for DIY to be an option. The only choice now is to throw things out when they stop working and buy new things built by wage slaves in third world countries.
It’s getting weird. I noticed something the other day. Both my parents were raised on a farm & growing up I never saw either one of them sit in front of a tv. They worked from sun up to sun down around the house. Never saw them being lazy. Insane work ethic that was 100% normal back in the day. It’s why I cringe now when I see a man sit in fro t of a tv watching sports or tv shows. Which makes me so odd in this world, but my parents were so mature. I don’t even recognize adults today.
@@kimberlybanks9969 reminds me of seeing the tv room in the army being packed with 19 year olds on saturday mornings watching cartoons. being a farm boy my cartoon life ended about 5 years old.
Born in 1946 and raised 18 years on an old fashioned dairy farm. All labor, little mechanization. At 18, I worked an entire year, 7 days a week on getting up at 3:30 in the morning to milk the cows. Never even thought of that as being abnormal work life until I went to the city to get 'educated'. I got educated in how totally slack most city people think... like sick leave, 3 days a month. Really? In over 60 years of work, I missed 5 days of work, because I got malaria in Africa on a job there.
Temple is an icon and absolute giant in industrial design and animal/herd management for processing ….. she has insights into nonverbal processing ground breaking engineering that absolutely no one else is even capable of ….. absolutely remarkable
I would like to add here back when I was in school I absolutely loved the shop classes and felt like I was learning so much and so engaged. However, many kids took these classes to screw off and would deliberately disrespect the expensive equipment. Welding chairs to the wall for example. It honestly made me really sad because I genuinely loved the classes and we had such a good teacher that deserved much more respect than he got. One kid drew swastikas on every page of a woodworking textbook and I was honestly pretty upset and ratted his dumbass out. I feel like this is a reason they've dropped these classes. The kids, are shittier and disrespectful. Sorry Mr.Ydstie, thanks for being a cool cat to the kids that cared.
This really is it. The US has more single moms than any other place in the world. Kids are crappy because parenting is hard - even with two. A single mom simply can't instill the discipline and respect a boy needs in order to be productive.
@@Captain_MonsterFart At least they learned welding. Actually, its nothing so ominous. Just look at where the jobs are. Learning carpentry is going to give you a pretty precarious existence. I know, I'm a carpenter.
Oh Lord...kids always do crazy stuff... In welding class we had this Mexican kid thats family was cartel and he brought in this giant bag of meth because I jokingly said I could sell....anyway him and I were the worst welders. But later on he got his welding cert and worked as a welder until dying in a car accident.
My sister has 2 degrees , in early child development and education she can write a dissertation in her sleep , and I didn't finish school, I have dyslexia and in the 80s in the UK if you were a girl and had any kind of learning difficulty you were considered thick and would spend most of your time stood outside the class so as not to disrupt the rest of the kids . I ended up doing joinery , I can visualize plans and I can look at things and understand how to assemble them without reading the instructions . My sister cant wire a plug and has no idea about size or dimensions , and you can describe what you will build or make till you are blue in the face, and she has no idea what you are talking about . SCHOOLS in my experience have very little time or energy to deal with kids that won't fit into their neat little boxes and if you are a kid who will complain or won't conform then you are an even bigger problem, and they will make life miserable for you , I couldn't wait to get the hell out of the place .
I was always college-bound and my brother was always... not-college-bound. Our mom complained to me about his not doing well in school and I tried to explain to her that he had other motivations than I did that did not match well with how school worked. So I eventually came out 33rd in my graduating class headed for engineering school, and he came out 1st in his auto mechanics vocational school class. Then he got involved in union organization (it's your fault, mom, because you one upon a time were a unionist) and he could no longer get a job. So, he went back to school... for computer science. He did very well and got many good jobs with the transportation industries in our area and for Y2K created his own body shop fixing mainframe systems. Turns out we both have dyslexia - my case is relatively mild (reading is a chore for me), his is more severe, his daughter was crash-and-burn in the school system. But our brains allow us to deal with 3D problems more naturally than the average bear. For my brother we discover that there is a lot of similarity in structure between an automobile engine and a mainframe software system (and in my case, a flight simulator, a jet engine test stand, or a RADAR processor). And college-trained teachers are not dyslexic because colleges are not good about working with diversity... really...
No Kidding! I known about this woman for a few decades. Me and my brother had bicycles growing up in the 1960's. One of our bikes broke down and a fellow helped us out. He said that he would help us that time, but no more. That got me and my brother to figure it out at first using pliers then we got a screwdriver, then later a bike repair kit. Over time we were doing minor fixes to mom's car, an old 1954 Hudson Wasp. We had shop (wood, metal and print) in school. I did electronics repair as a career. Now we have Millennials that don't know how to replace a light bulb nor reset the GFCI breaker in the bathroom! My Jr high school history teacher warned us students that the parents didn't want their kids to work with their hands. Instead the parents want the kids get high-paying, back-stabbing white collar jobs.
Bless Temple's heart. I feel her excitement in speaking about these topics. It is my eagerness to engage in a certain dialogue sometimes that leads to what others see as abruptness or rudeness. Peterson understands and so do I.
When I lived in Toronto, whenever I'd meet someone and they learned I'm from Hamilton, the reaction was often, "Oh, Hamilton! Then you must know how to fix things right"? I would go around on weekends hanging doors up on hinges and doing other menial, quick in-and-out, around-the-house jobs for cash at $300+ a pop, for women who were more than happy to pay it. All the while, their useless husbands stood behind me supervising, rubbing their chin saying things like, "That's not how they did it on the RUclips video", to which I'd reply with something to the effect of, "Buddy, if you could find your a55 with both your hands, your wife wouldn't have had to hire me to come do this in the first place". Learn a trade. Be a useful member of society.Take pride in self-reliance and keep your hands out of other people's pockets.
I worked in the news industry for 10 years and because of that job I no longer like technology. Automation does not work well. It's easier to deal with a bad employee than with a computer system that crashes. Before automation, we rarely had issues with our video play system. When we switched over to automation, that thing would crashed 10 minutes before the show and it took a half an hour to reboot the servers. A half an hour without video for a newscast is devastating, you basically don't have a show. I do fear that we're placing too much trust in these computer systems that haven't proven their long lasting worth. The worst part about automation is that there's no one to blame for lost revenue, it can really drive a gigantic divide between management and employees because the control is out of their hands, they're relying on computers to work, it's ridiculous and then you can't tell if someone is lying or telling the truth because everyone can just blame the computer.
During my high school years in Jamaica, you could do up to two skills until graduation. You could choose from welding, carpentry, plumming, agriculture, machine shop, electrical installation, technical drawing and food and nutrition. After high school you could then go to trade school to further your skills for an extra 1 to 2 years and go to uni afterwards if you still wanted to. Having a skill even made you more attrative to uni because of the practical experience.
I agree that you need to have a hands-on approach to the material world to understand it but I come from a line of hands-on engineers without degrees who got down and dirty every day trying to make things work like they were supposed to do. Not going to college and getting lost in your own head in theory instead of working with the material world would stop a lot of the nonsense that we have to put up with from academics, politicians, and bureaucrats who don't care about real results as long as they can fiddle with the statistics to make it look like things are working. Another problem: I was talking to a friend the other day who's having to remodel his sister's house because the contractor took $20,000 and ran. Almost everybody has a story like this, right? If you can't get honest tradesmen, why would anybody want to deal with them? The government won't do anything to stop this from happening as long as they get their cut. I built my own house; my dad and mom built their own house; my uncle and aunt built their own house. We got together and built things. My brother is the odd one - he hired people to build his house.
I am retired after 45 years as a Respiratory Therapist. I went the Vocational /Technical school route. No debt following school, worked my way up. Did complete a science degree after I started working full time. Running up a giant school bill before you every get a job is a bad idea. Learn a skill and go to work. Go to college when you can pay for it. Two-year schools are a great value.
Finally this is being discussed. I started with grade 10 shop classes and ended up at NRC designing diving communication and support equipment. Also have 2 patents and published a medical paper.
I learned to weld, pour concrete, rebuild engines, carpentry, veterinary and nutrition, about soil biology, plant health, stockmanship which lead me to horsemanship which taught me about life. It all started on a dairy farm. I never learned much in school. My greatest teachers were the machines I spent hours operating and maintaining, the cattle and sheep I spent hours caring for, the troubled horses I've ridden the people I worked for, a couple of which only had an eighth grade education, and a cowboy and horseman from Alberta who became my friend and mentor as well as my dad who taught me how to be a man, a self-sufficient man.
Bingo. That is why I don't believe in "Project Managers" and any other high-power-distance hierarchies. Hire the doers and they will understand how to manage their own projects. Hire deferential meeting-goers and all you will get is chaos clouded by blown smoke, and meetings about how to micromanage something that isn't working.
@@jmfs3497 "Project Managers" are what you get when Academics study the Construction industry and completely misunderstand what "General Contractors" do.
@@thatotherguy8138 And they are in every industry. I started in Radio and 40 years later I work in VR and 3D and I still get Project Managers who want to micromanage something they have zero experience in. It's like their entire job is to squeeze themselves between me and the clients and smile and laugh and say yes to everything, and even the clients ask if we can meet in secret without the PMs, because the PMs can't even ask the right questions. Makes zero sense. The most life affirming thing I saw this year was the dump truck driver who laid my gravel driveway and only got out of his truck to shake my hand and take payment. I missed being around someone that couldn't fake being good their job.
What an excellent way to describe it, EIB :) I also agree with those who have said unqualified project managers are a blight all over most industries. The good ones are those that know enough to know when an employee knows their job and stay the heck out of their way.
They ran those hands in the early 90s.Im the steering wheel holding brain child that replaced them in the name of SAFETY(Newsflash:the safety numbers hardly moved). It was all💰grab & they've f'd over supply system w/their game playing
Ah yes, the natural conclusion of degrees in things that don’t need a degree, not hiring people who are qualified but don’t have a degree, and the complete disregard for fundamental infrastructure positions can’t possibly go wrong…
No kidding. After a friend of mine finished his bachelor of mechanical engineering, the first job he got was for civil engineering. The degree and the job didn't have much in common. What was even more ridiculous is that a co-worker of his, with the same job mind you, had a bachelor's degree in theology. He then told me that it didn't matter what your degree was in. To get hired, all that mattered was that you have a bachelors or better.
My wife is an Occupational therapist. Today it requires a master's degree. The pay is $50,000 at best. No one is going to spend the amount of money required to get the degrees for that pay level. You don't need a degree to teach kids to weld. You do need to be a journeyman. Hell I learned in our farm shop just out of necessity.
We have been fooled by the educators who were fooled to think they were good at ANYTHING beyond teaching basic understanding and that the most important priority of those who pay them is nothing but peer association…and since they think they can socially engineeer their bullsh!t by flooding colleges with kids who didn’t academically earn or pay for their admission to college, they have all but ruined their hold and influence on the future-thankfully!
Even in degree programs there is failure to impart knowledge. Too much online 'teaching' that seeks only to check boxes and collect tuition fees. Students are not receiving useful information. Most of the useful, applicable knowledge that I actually have used in life, I gleaned from anecdotal stories from my instructors and ensuing class interchange between instructor and students. I graduated from college in 1982. My children's college courses have been dominated by online 'learning'. Because it's online, the courses/syllabus' timelines are often accelerated so the student does not have time to read and learn the material- just hunt and grab the right answer in order to complete the test/assignment 'in time' They know they haven't really learned the material. These college grads are designing buildings, bridges, planes... How much longer will any of us risk boarding a plane or move into a high rise apt building...
I am a 67 yo aspie. I made my living as a lab tech and store manager of optical shops. I was not really welcome by the men who had dominated the industry in my area but I had a bit of a pit bull personality and I forged ahead. I was terrible at math but discovered the equasions used for the lab work were not difficult for me as they made sense for determining curves needed to produce powers to allow people to see properly. I also discovered that I made a good store manager and even discovered I was good at designing charts for keeping up with payroll, cost of goods and such. I was in the business for decades and often made business trips for the company and for my own own desire to see the country. I had been in church my entire life and choir in school and mention that because the vocally and musically gifted lost those arenas in school as well. I had always had an insatiable desire for the scriptures and in my early 50's I discovered as I had asked Yehovah for Wisdom in understanding them that I began receiving a great understanding of them never taught by the pastors and teachers. So in my life, I found more than one area I could become an expert in. Dr. Grandin is far beyond me in some areas, but I look at my chosen field and see zero people who can determine base curves and cross curves to determine power. Everything is done by computer now and the people making eye glasses know nothing about the true craft and have never sat down with 12 volumes of books to understand it all.
"I was not really welcome by the men who had dominated the industry in my area but I had a bit of a pit bull personality" Do you see a cause and effect between these 2 things?
Thank you for interviewing Dr. Temple Grandin We have to understand there are all types of people that are endowed by there Creator with specific gifts and talents . one size does not fit all.
The day I linked my practical and theory together was the day I began excelling in maths. Strict theory never stuck. Theory followed by application, stuck like cement.
That's like learning to play chess. If you had to learn and memorize all the chess rules beforehand you'd probably struggle unless you had a very high functioning IQ in that area. If you start playing chess while simultaneously learning the chess rules it'll be a more satisfying experience and ultimately you'll be better for it. I just repeated what you said but using way more words. What do I win?
I'm taking a machining class at the local community college, and the Prof mentioned that they dropped their education requirements to hire him because they could not find anyone with the educational background to teach the course. He had 30 years experience in the field, though.
I substitute taught computer classes for a coworker with an Art degree. I studied computer science in college and worked in the field. The students apparently liked my teaching better than his, because several went to the Dean. She caught up with me one day to ask f I had a degree, in ANYTHING, to work there. But since I didn't, and they were an accredited school, they couldn't hire me. But the guy with the art degree who just sat there reading a book during class was fine.
The university requirement every place has is total bull. I've got 10 years experience in the world of work and can tell you that the stupidest people I've had to deal with have usually got degrees, and some of the smartest and most competent people didn't. A degree is meaningless. The system is more like a club, a club of the indebted that simply doesn't like people who didn't get suckered for 50k plus interest just to enter the world of work. It's just a way of outsourcing intelligence testing to a third party, but that third party (the universities) will pretty much give anyone their stamp of approval just because of the money.
@@Hashterix I studied a year of music at a certain decadent Australian conservatory(where some faculty+student got away with serious academic misconduct) in 2017 and I ended up switching to an non-music degree and getting music tuition privately(from field leaders abroad via online). Although it was difficult to maintain 2 careers simultaneously, I got far more international opportunities in my music career than I ever did in that conservatory, and I learnt far more stuff as well- all that was missing was a degree certificate and a huge amount of uni fees for that career. Unless you're in something STEM or law, there are other ways to build yourself career at a far lower cost!
Part of the problem is large corporations making it impossible, and even legally problematic to fix equipment you bought from them - everything from Apple phones to John Deere tractors. Louis Rossman has dedicated much of his life and RUclips channel fighting for "Right to Repair." Many farmers can no longer fix their own tractors because John Deere simply won't sell them the parts, or provide the necessary information to diagnose and find faults. Corporations simply don't want to you fix their stuff. It's much better for their bottom line for you to buy a new one. It's a serious legal battle in a number of states, and if you want to keep that right, you're going to have to go up against corporations and the politicians they have already paid for. Good luck.
I'm an engineer and managed factories for 20 years. I can tell you that factories are mismanaged all over the country. The HR managers have zero technical ability and they push hires based on social interactions (many trades people are rough and tough). The training is lacking once you get the job. The equipment is frequently old. The safety manager comes out and cranks people out for not wearing their glasses and ear protection properly. The quality manager occasionally comes out on the shop floor but only when there is a large quality issue. The people who keep the place running are the manufacturing engineers, maintenance and a few skilled trades people (who are usually quite senior). All of this incompetence at the managerial level breeds a very negative environment that works its way to the lowest level employee. The shop manager is constantly beat up by the general manager/plant manager. It doesn't matter how much was accomplished yesterday, 2-3x will be required today and not one penny of yesterdays efforts will ever make it into his pockets. I loved my time in manufacturing operations and management, but the constant negativity from everyone was killing me. There is an assumption that you are a slave to the factory and anything the factory needs is prioritized over your personal life. I worked countless 60+ hr weeks. Until that changes, people will not want to work in them. I'm very happy to now take that experience and apply it to selling industrial automation equipment. I only regret I didn't choose this path sooner.
I find it interesting to hear them trying to figure out what happened. I'm one of those whom it happened to repeatedly. There is a movement in China that is translated into let it rot. It came from the back to the farm movement of the 60's. These young people left the farm, went to university, got their degrees and now can't find good paying jobs. So they have taken to sloth or have returned to the family farm to help the grandparents. Either way they are just going to let postmodern China rot. That's how I feel after all the success I had with the ETOP program at Lucent Tech. We reeducated the workforce of 8 former WECO factories so they could survive outsourcing of their jobs. I could write a book but have been discouraged by woke culture.
@@elzoog it's never too late. First, take care of your health to he sure and live a long life. Imagine that 58 is not old if your life expectancy is a robust 100+ therefore the potential for a 40 yr long career.
@@elzoog Never too large, but do not underestimate the effort and time that will be required. Remember that mastery of anything requires thousands of hours of practice. Consider taking aptitude tests to see where you are strong before embarking on your journey. Also, find some skilled tradesmen in your area and talk to them. I am sure many would be glad to help you and may even be an entry ramp to apprentice into new career. Finally, in my experience, those who excel at any endeavor are they who have genuine passion for the field and are driven to create superior results (good enough is never good enough) -- find your passion and fan the embers of your drive into flame.
@@elzoog Of course. As she mentioned there are community colleges in Colorado with such programs. We have a tech college here that teaches trades. A two year program includes hands on experience helping with Habitat for Humanity projects. Contractors hire them into apprentice programs. At your age you should consider the physicality of the occupation and your own ability. Most folks ended up learning to code because we were already trained in technology. Kind of stupid and ignorant to tell people who just lost their second job coding before Y2K to learn to code. Still several were able to finish a degree and one person, Karen, started a cake business that is well known and has several location in the Metro.
@@OldBillOverHill "Kind of stupid and ignorant to tell people who just lost their second job coding before Y2K to learn to code." That's what happened to me. I was doing C++ programming (with a bit of Visual Basic) back in the 1990s but got laid off in 2001. Because I was having a hard time getting another programming job, I decided to go to South Korea in 2003 to teach English. Been living in Asia ever since (currently in Shangrao China). I have a bachelor's degree in mathematics, for whatever that's worth. Mainly worried about what I can do if I go back to the US.
As a woman, I have never been more grateful for a class in my life, than I was for “shop”. It gave me confidence, to use tools, that I have utilized my entire life. It has made me much more self sufficient.
A friend (woman) called a service to come out and change the light bulb in her refrigerator. The service man showed her how simple it was to do and then gave her the bill for $75. She was a bit meek thereafter!
When I was young, everyone in middle school took Industrial Arts (metal shop, wood shop, and handcraft) and Home Economics (cooking, budgeting, and sewing). Most useful classes I ever had.
Funny enough, as a man the same thing happened to me. Was brought up in academic school but my talents was more technical. Following my desire to build things, I got tools and pretty much taught myself. Really wished I went to Tech instead.
Perhaps this speaks to why the computer models that we use to inform policy decisions often lead to such disasterous results. It's an insinuation of pure academia into the real world. Millions of important variables are invariably discarded or overlooked, because the people behind the models have no meaningful field experience and quite literally have no idea what they're doing.
Computer models are a stupid way to predict anything, anyway, even just speaking academically. All they do is generate a set of coefficients for a gigantic, impenetrable equation based on a bunch of input data. Anyone who understands how science is actually supposed to work can see how that would go wrong. And in fact, the problems with doing it are extremely well known by the people who develop all the mathematical frameworks; they have names like "over fitting." There are all sorts of techniques for trying to eliminate the fact that the equation is based only on a small sample of test data. But there's obviously nothing you can do if you're actually missing important variables or if the input data isn't even reliable to begin with (e.g., climate). The people who work in the field either can't or are unwilling to draw the correct conclusion from that: the methodology is bogus from the get go, probably because admitting that would mean having to find a new career.
@@BladeOfLight16 agreed. People who live in an academic bubble are rarely capable of accommodating real world complexity. Especially when you're high IQ and regularly rewarded for your accomplishments. Try explaining to someone like that that the little program they designed fails to account for millions of variables.
Ive been a trades person all my life as has been most my family. The reason they cannot find a shop teacher in Colorado is the 50k/ year salary. Try living in the metro Denver area for that. Now try trade wages in the Denver area, essentially flat for 12 years. A person can make the same wage for plumbing/hvac and carpentry in Wisconsin,South Dakota, Nebraska or many others as in Denver and the cost of a home is 50% less. After 24+ of trades I have a bad back and doing the same work as I did at 20 due to a lack of help. I left and went to work for a utility where I make a great wage and don’t have to break concrete and drag equipment up/down stairs all day. Minimum starting wage for a skilled craftsman should be 70k in most areas and 90k in a metro area. Small independent guys feel if they’re taking home 60k and have a new truck they’re doing good, now look at your profit margin, of which few can compute, health sosts, retirement, and length of working career/ wear on body.
The best education a person can get is a practical education. That only happens by working in a trade. Every job, every location, every environment contributes to growing your skill and to the person you are. You learn to face challenges head on and to overcome them. In a trade, you're not given the answers, you're taught the tools to find the right answers. I've been to university, I have degree. It did nothing for me. The trade I learned after that degree did everything for me. It shaped me, taught me to find strength and opened a world of possibilities that a university never could.
@@sillymesilly She's autistic, and has a long history of teaching people to understand better how animals think. Jordan has mentioned her with some reverence in the past about how her insight has led to better treatment of animals. He clearly understands that she's not necessarily rude, but that she is a bit difficult to communicate with, especially when she is excited about the topic.
I am a software developer. I have worked with several people who had little to no ability to develop software, troubleshoot software, test software. Some of these people had formal training in software and were mentored by capable people, yet were more or less ineffective at their job or worse - making problems for others. I've seen someone with 10 years experience literally not know where to start on a relatively simple task or bug. I could easily be convinced there is some mental capacity these people did not posess, despite being highly capable in other areas, and seemingly intelligent.
Part of the problem with devs is that during the education, a lot of the things you try get shot down. In my experience most educators in IT (as well as Physics, Math aso.) tend to be weak socially Students try to be creative and solve something, but they got shot down for deviating from the optimal solution. Instead of nudging them towards the optimal solution, these "educators" make these kids feel incompetent. People who are great at IT and great at teaching are extremely rare.
@@dansuniverse9642 I noticed in software development that you might have to employ an unoptimal solution if you want to get it done in a timely manner.
I’m certainly of the opinion there are different types of thinkers. People that use information and their brain in different ways. I’ve experienced this in people around me in my life. I think not recognizing these differences and teaching them to people can waste a lot of resources for them personally and within the community. People need to be able to recognize early on what types of skills they possess and how that relates to mapping out their future, both in social and professional directions. In the US we do a horrible job at this with the ‘common core’ setup. The education system itself needs to be dismantled and rethought to better serve the people.
In the late 90s, I was one 3 girls who took plumbing and welding. We lived in a SMALL town and dint have a lot of money but they were still able to teach us basic welding, plumbing, woodshop, etc. The FFA sponsored them and every semester WE and other small high schools would weld the metal enclosures that held the showcase animals for rodeos, 4H, FFA shows etc.. many of the kids were from farming households. I even learned basic maintenance of a car. As a 40 year old woman, half the mechanics I meet under the age of 30 are idiots. They are literally only trained in 1 part of the car and that was it. They dont force them to learn about the WHOLE car, its, parts, repair, and how to build your own parts. I worked in many luxury car dealerships and the service department was made up of guys very unique. Half were farming dudes and the other half were from Europe. They were an eclectic bunch because some were engineers and others were mechanics who knew every spec of a car.
I was never very practical growing up, built the odd Billy cart is all. Then as an adult I found myself 750km from home with no money, 4 kids in the car and had to be home that night. Car had a cracked fuel filter from some road debris, went into local big box, opened and read the cars service manual, bought the bits and a couple of discount bin tools and out to the car park. Memorised the instructions in store followed steps, replaced filter and drove home. That shop does not sell that stuff anymore but from that day I fixed everything myself car, washing machines, you name it and before we had internet. The answer is online today yet people have no self reliance.
What Dr Grandin is saying is so true! Children are not allowed to ‘make a mess’ , society is going in reverse where children are seen and not heard, placed in front of screens for amusement, told what to do and when to do it. Critical thinking is being erased from the younger generation in large swathes. Children who do not question what they are told are at risk from predators and those wishing to control them. Children have to be allowed to grow at their own pace and ‘nurtured’ by loving carers and not given over to the establishment!
Glad you interviewed Temple Grandin. Her life experience is unique and her POV is one to consider. I've read a few of her books, especially "Thinking in Pictures". It attracted me because I think in pictures and she was the first person I had heard of that also did.
I'm 76. Raised on an old fashioned dairy farm for 18 years then, apparently, went to school and got educated. The years on that farm fixing and problem solving always has been my real education. Sure the bit of paper and being hired/contracted by the usual academically educated snobs/ know-it-alls usually in government got me jobs, but it was the farm kid-brain that got it done and too often saved their over-educated asses.
As I listen to this, two things come to mind. 1) "The world will always need ditch diggers." Let's go further than that. The world will always need those who can build and maintain things well. The world will always need those who know how to use their hands AND their heads. There are far too many who can't find the business end of a screwdriver with three tries. Self-sufficiency? There are those who don't even understand where their food comes from. "It comes from a supermarket." Where did the supermarket get it from? "They just have it." Which leads me to point 2... Doing away with shop classes and shoving everyone in the direction of a uni only served to create a mountain of debt unnecessarily, which now they want everyone else to shoulder the burden of a highly questionable decision by the student in pursuit of, in many cases, a completely useless degree. Not everyone needs to go to uni, (don't even get me started on how they are factories dedicated to the wholesale destruction of ideas and lives). If you want the crumbling infrastructure to survive, then push people into the trades instead. There are plenty of jobs where, with the accumulation of experience and skill, the worker can make a ton of money versus the person with the degree.
I grew up poor, my dad couldn't change the oil in his car and couldn't change a light bulb, lucky for me, shop classes 70s and 80s, public schools taught me to cook, type, bike repair, auto repair, music, drafting, framing, wood shop, ROTC, write a check and balance a checking account, write computer code, sports. And Boy Scouts taught me leadership skills, survival skills, archery, shooting, knot tying, comradeship, civic training, speaking skills, acting skills, the list I can write a book about. Today's children have no skills coming out of school
Very nice clip here. Why I like Temple Grandin; she gets what should be obvious because she examines, thinks and comes to logical conclusions. The abstract and theoretical get too bogged down in equations and abstracts to really look at what's in front of them. They can be trained out of their tunnel vision. Teaching trades is tough for the reasons stated, plus the resistance of kids to do the work and listen to these experts.As a boomer, my little town HS had a trades building that we could choose if we didn't want to prep for college. That was great for sharp kids high on the visual learning curve. These visual tests and others need to be done of all kids. In lower grades, it gives insight on how to teach all kids. In 9th grade, it could serve not to force them into a path, but give them options on what they might be happiest with.
As for the welding shop class at the community college not able to find a qualified teachers, I would wager it's mostly because a welder qualified enough to teach is going to be paid very well, and the community college isn't offering market dictated wages commensurate with the skills a person would need.
I know guys who went from practicing trades to teaching them. They were happy to make the change even if the pay was not so hot. The hours were steady, the work way easier, vacations and benefits much better. A guy who is getting older and wants to take it easy would take the job even if it paid less. Such very experienced men can make excellent teachers. Not all, but some have the verbal skills and knack of working with newbies. The hitch is they have to go back to school and earn a teaching qualification. There should be some way to streamline this requirement and make it as easy as possible for those teachers who already have the life experience.
@@tedlogan4867 What do statistics have to do with it? I was explaining that there are other factors involved than the rate of pay. I suspect based on my experience, that they could find experienced tradesmen willing to teach if it wasn't too difficult to qualify as a teacher. If they require a university degree that is obviously going to reduce the talent pool to almost zero.
@@mrdanforth3744 The people you're describing are statistically irrelevant in any conversation about this specific topic. Statistics have everything to do with accurately understanding broad issues. Pointing out the "I know a guy" reality, while not trivial, is pointing out the exception. It is not relevant, not useful in any way. There are always exceptions, but those exceptions are so rare as to be a non-factor.
@@tedlogan4867 Wow, this is a comment section. If you do not care for what he said, then just skip it. And, I will disagree, statistics are not everything in a conversation. Mr Danforth 374 made a very good point about why it may be hard to find teachers for shop type classes.
It's always been a shock to me how few people today have practical skills. I've met so many people that don't have tools and have never used them. They've never fixed anything and throw their stuff away when just 10 seconds and a Phillips screwdriver would make it usable again. Calling someone to come over and fix stuff isn't an option anymore as all the repair shops and handymen are saturated with work. Get tools. Learn how to use them.
I had the privilege of working with a senior mechanical engineer from Northwest Airlines. She gave congressional testimony on airline safety. Frequently she would give all the credit to the A/Ps. “I’d tell them to draw up what needs to happen and I’ll check the numbers… “ She trusted them completely.
Dear Dr. Peterson, I have only commented on occasion and must say once again to start, I greatly admire the work you do and the other voices like Dr. Grandin's, by whom I have been influenced for decades. On this video's topic and others within, I could not be more pleased that those of your caliber are considering them. My work is easy to find on the internet now and more importantly, those of many I mentor to various degrees. The main point is we must stop designing and building the infrastructure of this world the way we are collected as humans. It is grossly destructive with the only "real" primary aim being speed and profit...NOT!!!...best practice, ecological sustainability, and also keenly important and absent now in modern architecture...honest and easily facilitated survivability. Once again, blessings to you and your Daughter for the work you are both doing in raising consciousness to these issues in a pragmatic and logical fashion rather than the hyped and inflated fashion most in first world countries seem anchored to...
I'm a 29 year old man with a home, wife, child, and dog. I am one of those "Great Resignation" followers and could care less about 'maintaining the system' for at least the sake of the modernized world. Of course there are drawbacks to that type of thinking and unintended consequences. I quit my job smack dab in the middle of Covid; June 2020. I was a truck driver making $70k a year; working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. In January of that year, we were asked to sign a form acknowledging that we would accept 8 days of unpaid vacation per year, instead of 13. Which was initially 20. We had 120 guys at the time and an average of 20 call-offs per day. I bought a home and then quit my job 6 months later. I've since made a great living being a dad and working occasional gig/contract whenever I can find it. The wife also works part time in Healthcare. We are NOT struggling, despite the inflationary insanity. K-12, High School, College, 45 years of work, and then retire and be happy (realistically depressed)? Is that really the meaning of life? To miss out on life with the promise that it will pay off in the last stage? I saw this trap the moment I entered the work-force at 18, but I decided to do the ropes from immense pressure I got from friends and family. I avoided the University trap and worked for FedEx, later Werner Ent; all to my parent's dismay. They were extremely disappointed to learn that I was making a lot of money, living in an apartment, and dating my (now wife). They would have been more proud to have me gobble up 100K of debt and live at home until 40 being a loser. Which is want a substantial amount of Gen X parents do to their children. They live in a world of denial about the changing times and force their 1980s religion onto their kids and ruin their lives over it. The same thing has happened to my younger sister, who will be $130,000 deep in student debt over a Bachelor of Design, smh.
45+ years ago the feminists threw a fit, so home economics was dropped at my school. CAD/CAM started taking over the metal shop. Robots started welding in factories. Programmable machine controllers began operating machines. Programming was more important. Programmable 3D additive printers have jumped from building engineering prototypes to the specialty shop, and factory floor. They are intruding on the construction industry by making homes from concrete. Jobs started going abroad. Machine shops were only used for emergency, and specialty parts. Eventually, workers, machines, and materials were brought from abroad. This happened with China, and repairing the iconic Golden Gate Bridge. No Americans were allowed to work. Planned obsolescence, and pricing strategies make it cheaper to buy new than repair. The printer is cheaper than the ink, and the printer is made abroad. We are at the point where programming is the last American occupation. There is fringe work for the liberal arts. Artificial Intelligence like ChatGPT-3 are writing programs, and creating art upon request. Within 20 years, most humans will be unemployable. I recall a scene. A sewing machine, and an recently instructed illiterate teenage girl was set down before some tailors. The girl sewed a perfect seam in seconds. A tailor exclaimed he had apprenticed for two years in order to sew perfect stitching. Another replied, that he still takes hours. I know a programming company instantly put out of business by an electronic spreadsheet. Who knows how to repair a spreadsheet? Buy a new updated one.
Beyond how incredibly germane to the moment this conversation is, can we talk about the absolutely brilliant fashion repertoire these two have assembled?
I'm pushing both of my kids (son/daughter) to avoid college and the crazy amount of debt it comes with, and instead choose a trade to go into. College is just a joke now, especially because they are all more concerned with being woke than they are with actually teaching kids how to think critically. And I know very few people who are actually working in the field they have a degree in.
I repair HVAC and Refrigeration. Heavy load on my body back and knees. Can be stressful when the routing office puts 8 calls everyday on your route. You have to complete them to go home or reschedule the customer for 2 weeks later. The pay well $30 an hour.
I’m a professional mechanical engineer…a pretty good one, I might add. I spent much of my formative years before PC’s were available. I engaged (and continue to engage) in many sports and other activities which grounded me in the world of physical things. Tennis, baseball, football, swimming, skiing, cycling, camping, canoeing, sailing, scuba, flying airplanes…and several other things. I believe its these extracurricular activities I became proficient in that instilled many of my instincts for engineering and visualization. Youngsters today are rarely seen participating in these activities. Kids need to get better grounded in such physical pursuits. I suspect it might not be possible past a certain age. More school is not the answer to everything.
This woman is amazing! I've seen movies depicting her fight through college and then her fight in the cattle industry. She is someone like Dr Peterson, lost among the others but just like cream, she has made it to the top of her industry
I'm on the spectrum myself and have great respect for both of these people. I graduated from the community college in welding and got on the Dean's list, and currently work with my father doing woodworking/carpentry. I'm soon to have an interview for a union program that'll last for 5 years. I ought to read her book...
I had no idea what I wanted to do at 18 in 2009, but I knew going 60K plus in debt for a degree didn’t make any sense in the American system for a smart blue collar kid with no idea what he wanted to do. Spent 4 years in the Marine infantry learning life skills, spent another 7 years in various sales and operations roles learning how to hustle and navigate corporate politics. Decided in 2020 I wanted to become a tradesmen and eventually start my own business. Today I’m debt free, making enough money as an HVAC mechanic to bring my wife home, with a second baby on the way. There’s good money and spiritual satisfaction today in America for hvac mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc.
Jordan is masterclass. This lady speaks with authority, and is, "No nonsense". No hurty feelings. "This is the problem". "This is how it is". "Deal with it, and be quick about it"! Bravo that lady, I just love your vigor and spirit. 👏👏👏👏👏
My daughter was an Agriculture teacher when she was told she wasn't "essential" and let go during that time when kids were told to stay home to "flatten the curve". They kept the football coach though.
Every time I listen this man talk with another smart person I feel like it is worthy of my time on social media stuff big time and both have great analysis amazing…
During covid I was told I was non essential. So I started digging ditches for a plumbing company. I was the lacky with a useless Masters degree from a university...I have nothing but respect for trademen/women. It's a different set of tools and skills that are real and don't exist in the stupid Matrix
Im an ex Army mechanic, went back and got my BEd and taught shop until my Army body caught up with me. As was said, their is a lack of respect/understanding of a trades career. Most teachers go through HS school, do well and go to university, maybe working a serving job. Shop was seen as a place for those who could not succeed academically rather then relating it as a multiplier, reinforcing math and English skills. I left when it became a dumping ground for all kids "succeeding" and having to justify kids failing who didn't give a crap. Something that isn't valued is devalued and our society is devaluing work ethic. Btw, im Canadian and the witchhunt that the Doctor Peterson is undergoing is saddening. Keep the faith Doc!!
These jobs were outsourced to 3rd world nations, the problem is industry is made unobtainable by board partners pumping industries for money under balling labor wages and not doing proper machine maint. or PMs all for the sake of short-term dollars to hike stock ticket prices, essentially, they are trying to overshoot the market cap for their industry and cutting corners, so it become unprofitable here in the US, and unpredictable, people expect this unobtainable incline in revenue and profits that in this reality never existed because the growth eventually bottoms out to a plane line, and they aren't satisfied with that. They even went as far in the industry to call machinists machine operators and tried relabeling it as unskilled labor in order to cut their costs.... So who the hell is going to work in those hell holes of the metal industry where processing metals is almost a certain lung cancer issue? I could go further I have worked in Aluminum and Steel industries, the danger to workers is insurmountable and paramount yet for some reason people think they can toy with the workers and their salaries, yet without these skills and workers it is outsourced overseas to places like China where deplorable conditions exist and slave/child slave labor. At what point do you bottom out the industries and say hey, some people are getting paid 100+k salaries and they don't do anything(certainly tech industry work videos showed how these workers are pampered to hell, but so over educated and stupid to the point they cannot name oceans and continents) yet they guy/girl getting dirty dealing with measurements and tolerances that help build the world cannot make past 50k a year? At one point when does the stupidity stop and we actually take care of those that do the labor and learn a set of skills?
As a father with 2 grown children with Autism, this is awesome. I see our daughter in Dr. Temple Grandin. She's not being rude when she interrupts, she's is just getting ahead because she knows where it's headed. It makes me smile, people with Autism are awesome and super smart on subjects they love. She speaks with force because it most likely drives her nuts knowing what the problem is and it's not getting fixed. Our Daughter behaves the same way, no messing around, problem solution what the hell is everyone waiting for. hahaha. no filter just facts and raw honesty
I was reminded of the movie "City of Ember". I work for a company that makes equipment for electricity. There is definitely a loss of industry knowledge over the past 30 years.
I love the way Temple corrects him when he starts blaming women for taking shop classes out of the school system. As a woman who worked in HR as a recruiter for many years, I completely agree with her about the real reason shop classes were removed. The most difficult jobs to fill are for skilled technical professions like welders, CNC machinists and electricians. They pay just as well as white collar positions that require a Bachelor's degree, and there really is a shortage of qualified applicants. I think the mindset is changing because many community colleges are now adding curriculum for manufacturing careers to help students get the specialized training to do these jobs. I wish Jordan wouldn't always go down the same road by oversimplifying causes and adding his biases to problems. He's very smart, but I think too many people listen to him and take his opinions at face value without considering additional contributing factors.
What she said reinforces what he said - there is no one to teach those classes, which is the effect. The cause is that shop classes were removed from the curriculum by matriarchal administrators
He raised a good point that she may have dismissed a bit too quickly. There have been a number of factors at work, and our cultural disregard for "masculine" domains is part of it. Fortunately, given the chance, women will "get" it and equal or exceed a lot of men with technical skills; however, core administrative decisions are made by bureaucratic structures where technical people - men and women - are ignored. Women make up more and more of those administrations and shape direction, preferring men who are less traditional.
There was bias against manual skills and trades but it was not because of women in academia. Both sexes are to blame. In this Grandin was right. You notice Peterson backed off right away when she corrected him. He was asking a legit question and listened to the answer.
@@walfredswanson I dare say they did away with Home Economics classes as fast as Carpenter Shop. It was bias against manual skills not a male/female thing and academics can be expected to be pro academic and anti practical skills regardless.
A problem we have, is no business or corporation wants to set up and run a journeyman program to train people. They expect people to already be trained. Not the way it used to be. College was for academics. You didn't need college for practical jobs like welding.
The high school I attended in Northern Ireland and then my son has now got a complete engineering section, complete with computerized lathes, drills, etc, as well as the older type, Both metalworking, Joiner's workshop, and a technical drawing workshop. It also has a Big Art and Drama dept, and still teaches Encomics. when my son was at school, he built a lamp, table, and a welsh dresser in joiners class, a twin-wheeled trailer, Petrol Go-kart and many other things in Metalwork drew up first in the tech drawing class, he learned to join copper metal, and weld steel. Though I miss the buns and cakes he used to come home with. As an adult, he can do most things.
Always interested in what Temple Grandin has to say. I refer to a certain skillset as mechanical literacy, being a combination of genetically and practically acquired ability. I’m the only one left in my extended family with this. So many of those jobs are gone now anyway.
We've also created a healthcare system that nobody wants to maintain.( I love how she shuts him down there in the beginning. And she was right to do so)
I’m not so sure about that.. Pharma has such a grip on the Healthcare System because they can just put you on a regimen of pills or shots / consumables rather than a Wellness System than educates people on healthier choices- which exposes other problems with our government and food suppliers who lobby them. There shouldn’t be a Corn or Sugar Lobby in DC.
Shop classes as traditionally offered became outmoded. Basic skills with basic tools no longer led to employment in the vast majority of cases. The kinds of machines like ban saws and lathes were old and many schools couldn't afford, the newer, far more high tech versions of industrial machinery. It wasn't an anti-male bias. It was the far more ubiquitous reason of cost and how useful the classes they could offer would actually be in the real world. The only US school districts that can afford the millions of dollars needed to acquire up to date machinery are the ones least likely to have students who are interested in those sorts of occupations. The millions need to be invested in school districts that are predominately lower income and working class districts where young men especially are interested in kinesthetic occupations where they can use their hands and logical, problem solving skills and math skills most readily. But those school districts have far less resources and our states do not help local school districts in relation to need. Nationally, state funds are predominately distributed on a solely per capita basis. This is not even considering how woefully underfunded most schools are locally and at the state level because they rely primarily on property taxes.
Yep, I worked with a bunch of teeneagers who'd literally never used a tape measure in 2012 in our towns volunteer centre for helping young people gain some basic skills. I was surprised when they told me this for the first time, but it was only momentary, the dots just immidiately joined for me like, duh, of course there's going to be people who haven't used some of these things & so have no framework in their mind to come at understanding them. And so I began trying to figure out what needed to be communicated, & how I might make sure they actually understand it, but more than that, I didn't want to make them feel stupid & receade from just saying what they didn't know. Now, my collegue on the other hand, he didn't get that, At All. For weeks he just wasn't getting it, once I noticed this as he overheard us talking about measuring & how it works, because it's never a perfect thing & I can't remember what he said, but it jsut wasn't from an understanding perspective. And so I began properly paying attention to how he was working with people, & I couldn't believe I didn't notice how little information he put out. And so over the next few weeks me & my collegue started talking more about all this stuff & what's going on in our minds & everyone elses. I just can't help getting really Intensly curious about novel things once I notice them. Unexpected things, my mind just latches on & goes & goes for a period & it slowly dies down over a week or 2 or 3, depends if anyone around me is also curious about the same thing, if someone else is really actually curious then I can keep it going with them because it's always leading somewhere new. Seems to stagnate really easily when it's just my own mind. He started talking more after that with students, & myself I might add, because he was always quite short spoken before, like the thing he was asaying was intrinsically obvious to everyone else as well. I've never been like that actually. I remember all through Primary school just observing everyone else, watching them just fumble to notice what I thought was just obvious. Btw, the reason I kept quiet was because I'd tried communcating these things in the first couple of years & it just resulted in bullying, just a complete dumb response with no hope of changing their mind. God what a difference highschool was, teachers who actually had brains, like half the P school teachers jsut seemed like nothing was going on in their heads once I got a taste of High schools Still, the whole schooling system was a complete nightmare for me, I don't have good working memory for information. I've always been 3D spacial. I used to describe how I could feel how my mum was folding cloths & towels & such after the washing & how I could see exactly how unstable the thing she was building was. She never got it, she always acted like I was a little idiot actually for some reason, I also never got that. I know the bolts on my car, I can see into the structure of the metals, how the corrosion might affect the structual integrity as it looses material. But add information into that, & I really, Really struggle, it just grinds to a halt. And yet, for some reason, I liked math, which I never got Any chance to get good at, my mum did nothing with me my entire schooling. And, I'm not joking when I wsay this. The school kept me in the bottom group, never letting me try Any new math, Never, nto once. It was so mind numbingly boring, I just could not get my mind to engage with it, 7 years doing the exact same sums. And they just took my dissengagement from it as evidence I was thick AF....... I mean you couldn't make this shit up. It's Actual insanity...... How our school systems have bnasically wrecked countless thousands of childrens lives. They take their own inability to manage different types of minds as evidence of those minds intrinsic stupidity. It's bonkers beyond beliefe, the ignorant arrogance of it all. The thing is, I knew in my mind I wasn't thick, so many things were so obvious to me before they happened, knowing the patterns of peoples movements, evading bullies on leaving school, god they were so predictable, it was just completely obvious to me, the paths home, well, they were finite. 3D spacial stuff & how things will move through it, piece of piss too me even as a preteen. Did school ever bother to test that. Well actually, funnily enough, it would've if they'd just fking let me try all the math instead of 7 god damned years of adding subtracting & dividing the dumbest numbers......
Back around 1978-82 I took two years of vocational bricklaying classes while in high school. Once we mastered the basic skills we built a house every school year. I also took drafting/mechanical drawing, and woodworking classes in high school. It helped me in life and in getting thru school. I was easily distracted and bored in school, however I have a high gpa in college level classes.
For 2 years all I heard at my last job was "Noone wants to work, everyone just wants to sit on unemployment, everyone is lazy". I've been applied to 30 jobs this week, all within my field and experience level. I've followed up with most of them unless instructed not to. Not one called back. They advertise the same jobs at the same places every week. I've even applied to several jobs requiring "experience or willingness to learn". I'm technically proficient, well mannered, educated, and persistent. Not one has given me the chance despite my willingness to learn and actually follow up. I'm self employed but it's not enough anymore. What am I missing? Guy in his 40's, fit, open schedule.... But all these employers are "desperate" for people who want to work. Something fishy about that. It's like they want a skeleton crew to save money but complain about being short-staffed.
I would say the business either tries to be cheapskate so they can save extra money or taking government kickbacks for having a shortage on workers (there was some talk about it I heard floating around RUclips, but I don't know how much of it that is true).
There is something going on with it. Same thing here. Everywhere is “now hiring”. But not really.
They want desperate workers who don’t know their value.
Try applying to a job at a company you wouldn’t dream of being qualified to work at, and thank me later
Wow, this has been my experience exactly. Good luck with your search.
Ur 2/ova qualified.interviewer prob was intimidated not the company.
I’ve been a machinist for 12 years.
Another problem as to why no one is entering these fields is that for the longest time (and to an extent things are still this way) shops and businesses weren’t willing to give anyone their first job in the industry. Everyone only wanted people with experience. I went the military route (Navy) and got my experience that way. Because I am young I am now expected to pull 60 hour weeks and soon they want me training people too. 70% of my coworkers retire in less than 3 years.
This problem was caused not only by educators and lifestyle changes, but also by employers.
This is something that doesn't get talked about enough
Plus if you did get one to take you on the pay was small verses the work.
Machinist of 5 years here, our shop has same problem. Can't find people to hire, the ones they do hire aren't mechanically inclined. Half our shop including my mentor are retiring in next 5 years, and it takes years to learn some of the ins and outs of these machines, especially when production always come first.
@@supersmegma9801 Production has came first for 30-40 years from what I can tell. The employers don’t care about making sure that there is a sustainable work force. The only thing they care about is increasing their profit.
I hate sounding like a cynic but that’s the truth of it.
One thing that tech companies are great at is creating new ways to cultivate talent. There are ways to improve a situation like that, but it takes an investment into building processes that aren't typically aligned with machine shops. Think six sigma, and what it takes to tool up for it. Another thought would be to start an apprenticeship program. You could also look for older "new machinists" that are transitioning out of other careers. Alternatively, you could go heavy into automation with the ever increasing complexity and usefulness of robotic CNC machines and processes where one person can manage many runs at multiple stations. Lot's of fertile ground for creative thinking!
My daughter calls my wife and I "Homesteaders" because we tend to do most things ourselves without needing to call others to help. We were tickled and took it has a compliment, though I am not sure she meant it as such. I wrote down a list of the things we do ourselves and it is quite extensive. Let's just say we do our own electrical, remodeling, plumbing, appliance repair, landscaping, operate heavy equipment (excavators, etc.), legal documents (wills, patents, etc.), do our own taxes, woodworking, computer building, home automation and security, electronics ( Raspberry PI projects, speakers, built home made computer monitor), home networking, installed solar panels, built play structures and a plywood skateboard halfpipe with grind rails, etc. I was raised on a farm.
If it wasn’t for all the regulations the licensing, EPA, OSHA, etc etc…most people would be more inclined to be self sufficient but you have to jump through all these hoops and if someone finds out then you get fined by the city county etc..not to mention the planned obsolescence, and anti-right to repair culture we live in it’s no surprise more people don’t subscribe your lifestyle
most of that is illigal in denmark to do yourself. i am not even allowed to put up a lamp.
The more self sufficient you are the harder you are to control
From where i am from,its called yesterday
What Raspberry PI projects do you do?
I want to be as self reliant as possible 😊
Grew up on a 365 acre dairy farm and when I was a small child our first home my father built from the ground up. It was an amazing two story home with a spiraling staircase. There was nothing my father could not create with his hand. My daughter started violin lessons at the age of four and one day my dad decided to make her a violin. After about 10 violins he finally made the one that had the perfect sound and she has that to this day. What an amazing mind to be able to accomplish such things in life.
Amazing. A house. A violin. Shelter and music. Fond memories.
Thank you for sharing this heartfelt whimsical spiral 🧬🪜🧬 of a tale 🎻 🤎🎻 music is a salve.
I owned a ornamental and industrial Blacksmith shop for over 40 years. My kids grew up in the shop. My daughter was a good machinist by the time she was 16. Both kids saw how hard I had to work to make a living. My daughter was put in charge of a lot of projects in college because she knew how to use tools build things. She's a large animal vet now. My son has a nuclear engineering degree, but his 1st job at university was because he could weld and build things. Being able to think in 3D is a whole different world then most people think. Talk to some teachers and they have no idea what your talking about. Some of the dumbest people I've met have PHD's and some of the smartest have no degrees.
Im 26 years old from Germany but what you say is what I am experiencing on a near daily basis for years now
🇨🇭 same over here - degrees where ever you look, but no idea what it means to work with your hands... Greetings from Switzerland.
I deeply apologize but I became a university lecturer with only a BA degree. My colleagues had PhD degrees. One or two everyone wondered how the “H “they ever got a PhD degree. It wasn’t that they were bad people, just stupid. I was never good with my hands at physical labor. But show me phonology or phonetics and I instantly understand and can elaborate like Mozart did on the piano. Hence dickering right now with Cambridge University Press over a book on English pronunciation I wrote seven years ago and left on a hard drive. I have never printed it out. We all have different talents. I see mine as a kind of cross between music and mathematics but not really like either. I was very bad at shop class. The funny thing is I know a woman who is a mathematician who is a great furniture maker, has her own power tools and workshop. For her it’s a hobby.
Read E.M. Forester’s “ The Machine Stops” 1909. Early SciFi. He also wrote “ A Room with a View” among other movies in the 19th and early 20th Centuries.
My brother was a “hands on” mechanical genius-you know them as the “guys who can fix anything.”
He was ill served by the educational system that was always testing him and announcing how “dumb he was.” He barely made it, academically, out of high school.
Fortunately, during his stint in the Navy, he discovered he was an auditory genius and became an electrician without opening a book.
It was hands on experience and “figuring” things out that released his genius.
He went on to become a successful contractor and electrician-running his OWN business.
Our educational system is broken. It is one size fits all and that is just flat out wrong!!
Yes, as a retired high school teacher I totally agree with you
I can't even fix a leaky tap. I am confused as to how your brother could become an electrician without opening a book. I can't see how he could just figure things out by himself. Do you mean he was trained by someone or some people by showing him and speaking to him? If he didn't have help surely he would have electrocuted himself? Electricity doesn't have moving parts that you can look at and then figure out. I did 2 years of a degree and can barely wire up a plug.
Free thinking people rub public education the wrong way!!!!
@@richardswaby6339 Some people like me are no good at books and exams but when the machine is in front of us, I can fix it. I had a team leader once he was really good technically in books and theory but when he went out to fix stuff, he was useless.
@@richardswaby6339’m a tradesman and am competent in HVAC, plumbing, and electrical. I even work on my own cars. If I hear someone taught themselves everything and didn’t even bother reading a book about the basic concepts of these trades, I don’t want them working around me. If you don’t bother reading books, you don’t bother with reading wiring diagrams and sequence of operations manuals.
These are the people that are dangerous to work with and tend to overinflate their skills and competency. I also see this completely self made mentality as a slap in the face to the people that helped you along the way. I won’t downplay the people who helped me out along the way to get me proficient in my trades.
This woman is 75..... she is as sharp as anything, curious, and full of lfe... What an absolute hero!
She is just amazing and more alive than most teenagers !
And pretty low on agreeableness. 😉
@@MrLuigiFercotti Because she's too smart to agree on the BS most people accept at face value. The world needs more people like Dr. Grandin.
@@angusorvid8840 And you, too. lol
I agree with Ms. Grandin. It was the cost of maintaining them and the huge liability issues that killed shop classes. They probably used the "tracking" controversy as an excuse to not spend the money. I used to work in a high school and I remember some of those conversations happening on the micro scale. I am sure they were happening on the macro scale as well.
Tangentially related - I later attended a vocational school for HVAC. The first year we had a lot of teachers who had worked in the field and were able to communicate what a repair tech needed to know clearly. Then they went through the accreditation process which meant they needed teachers to have masters degrees and these extremely competent people were replaced with people who were trying to explain graduate level physics to us which was utterly useless. That was in the late 90's.
Nail on the head. I was in Middle/High school in '85-'92, and I had a lot of friends who focused on shop, or just went to the VoTech school altogether. We used to make fun, but a few years later, they were laughing. Once I had my own kids in school, I kept asking teachers and admin where did these opportunities go?! Makes me wonder where unions (skilled labor ones, obviously) are finding their apprentices.
@@jasmadams As Jacqueline suggested, I'd expect liability to be a HUGE factor here. Most counties aren't financially equipped to handle the insurance costs for accidents caused by working this kind of machinery.
At least when I was in school those hands-on classes seemed to have shifted over to architecture/CAD, graphics design, and programming. These days robotics has been added to that lineup for some school systems.
@@quin2203 our school district is “self-insured “ which basically means it isn’t insured at all and injuries would be expensive
@@jackiekjono I was a shop teacher for forty years, and no one in my classes ever lost a body part.
As CEO's outsourced to China & beyond for cheap labour, at home the public was being sold that the Trades were a dying industry & therefore investment in the trades was pushed as a bad investment. Our economic system is very much to blame as CEO's are incentivized by law to look for the cheapest production cost with little regulation (regulation that was created after years of fatality).
The missing piece to this puzzle is human evolution. The industrialization of the late 19th & 20th century came at a MASSIVE cost to human life. Ie. Factory workers being locked in to work by factory owners & then burning to death in fire. Or a farmer having his body pulled into a grain combine/ harvester. Laws were then enacted to protect trade workers & regulation was a legal way to make this happen.
"Totally removed from the practical" - Temple has that exactly. Our society values people who know "about" things, like Jeopardy contestants, but not people who can "do" things. Our children have elaborate toys made and purchased for them, rather than the child developing their own toys. Lego sales prove that point - the most popular toy ever invented - because the child has to make things from it.
I was a shop teacher for 32 years. By the time I retired the number of shop teachers in the district was down 80%. And nobody cared. Valuable practical courses were discarded in favour of classes that would benefit no student. Courses for which no exams could be set, as no method of objective measurement was available. I have always said "If you can't measure the outcomes in the student you can't claim to have taught them anything". I was accused of having a "skills hang-up", as if that was an insult.
I'm long since retired. I won't ever teach again. But I still do for myself and my family what I used to teach. Most of my former students are middle-aged. But if I see them in my travels I always ask the same thing "What are you doing?" And the answers are diverse, but linked. From fighter pilots to machinists to auto techs, to boat builders - they are doing practical work, are well paid, and enjoy it. From that I take some comfort, compensation for an employer who discarded and de-valued the work I did.
Yes I know exactly what you're talking about! From the start of my high school through my HS graduation, I watched the technology classes dwindle. The year after I graduated they got rid of the welding/metal shop to put in a computer center (circa 1993). It was also a sad time for the sales people who followed in my grandfather's footsteps. My grandpa sold machinery (Rockwell/Delta/South bend/Time Saver...) to schools and industry in the mid west (mostly Minnesota). By the time he retired his replacements couldn't sell anything because all the schools got rid of their tech classes to welcome in the computer age. Computers are fine and CNCs can do some great stuff, but seriously, a true machinist (e.g. RUclipsr "This Old Tony" is worth his weight in gold.
My Dad has been a Civil Engineer my whole life. He used to supervise the building of bridges, roads, etc. His company has had many government contracts where they have built things for them all over the United States. (Last bridge he helped supervise building before he got sick with cancer was the Tillikum bridge in Portland, OR. Btw, if anyone is wondering, my Dad beat the cancer (twice) and has been doing well now. He is hoping to go back to work at 70. The man is a Terminator! lol)
He has always told me that they have to be constantly vigilant of contractors that are brought in cutting corners, whether it be to save money, or out of pure laziness. He says it happens A LOT! One of his jobs at these places was to ensure that the contractors hired to do various jobs on whatever project they were doing, were using the proper materials/specified measurements/etc. (Many of these big infrastructure projects, bridges, highways, and more; tend to have MANY contractors working on them, doing different things.)
My Dad has told me so many times the .most common arguments and problems on the many sites he has worked at, is contractors trying to cut corners. They would try to get away with using cheaper materials (weaker materials), they would rush through things, do shoddy work, and so much more.
He said he would get into arguments with these guys all the time after catching them in the act, or afterward. They would always try and defend the decision, act like total assholes when confronted.
Many times, he told me that if they hadn't caught this kind of thing before the project was finished, the consequences could be catastrophic! I am talking bridges collapsing, and much more.
He says this stuff happens on damn near EVERY project to some degree! Many are not caught because others are not being as vigilant in looking for the problems.
He told me, often, if a bridge collapsed, or there was some kind of failure, chances are it would probably end up being caused by some asshole contractor who cut corners and got away with it.
Just like the example Temple Granden used when referring to that collapsed bridge.
This happens ALL THE TIME.
Rather terrifying!
The person paying for the project (gov) wants it to be cheap(where you think those fancy suits an dinners come from?) and our roads are a great example of that. So low bidders win, and now begins the process of squeezing out as much profit as possible from the project. NOT the attitude that what is being built is to serve society and should be of the highest integrity. Unfortunately this compounds like an upside down pyramid regarding the money/profit. And before you go saying ANYTHING about us guys doing the ACTUAL WORK. REALIZE its the political crap that dictates how refined and to what quality of work we are allowed to meet. How are we doing to build nice stuff with the crap tools they provide, or the low quality materials, or the underpaid labor that bangs everything up and doesn't give a dam because thats how they are treated??? Not to mention these subpar architects these days and their absolute inability to design anything aesthetically pleasing anymore and these builds are not fun... seriously designs these days are so bad that as a carpenter, half my work is doing the architects/engineers jobs out in the field, aka "make it work" or "figure it out". Thats mostly on a microscale but think of a tv and the picture on it, takes millions of pixels, these big jobs where you got all these little corners cut, ends up adding up to like what the guy said, could be catastrophic. Because the entire job is profit driven the true purpose of it is completely ignored. We have the materials, We have the skilled tradesmen, We have the money, We have everything we need to accomplish amazing feats(technology)! Unfortunately greed has poisoned mens souls and society is paying the price. Its in our face everywhere with everything at this point. Its a matter of having people speak up... but no one does out of fear. "i'll lose my job"...
I gained such a respect for tradesman after working with a guy who could do anything practical. I watched him solve problems and was able to learn how to do it myself from him. He was not verbally skilled at all and could barely express himself but his problem solving ability was immense. He became more verbal when he was drinking and his humour was also sophisticated.
Many highly skilled musicians work the same way. Right hemispherical thought or highly intuitive processes that don't need to be explained to be effective and highly productive.
We need to value these great minds (for that is what they are in their own way), and stop valuing the uselessness of smooth talkers (like bureaucrats and politicians).
Did you not have respect for them before
@@jamesfield6431 that was your take-away from my comment? I consider myself as “in the trades” - I’m an RN that went to a vo-tech school. My father was a welder in the military. And we homeschool our boys, hoping they will consider a trade. My comment was regarding the broad cultural “we”.
@@katiejon17 wasn’t talking to you
As a senior engineer for my employer, I have been reminding supervisors that upcoming engineers need to get on ladders and get their collective fingers dirty to harden the connection between what is drawn on computer screens and reality.
I was fortunate to have a father (millwright and a machinist) that fostered discovery of all things mechanical. We had unfettered access to a tiny machine shop in the back yard and his motto was "if you can visualize it, we will get the raw materials and make it". Consequently I was operating various forms of mills, presses, and cutting tools before I was ten years old and taking apart as many things as I was building. It fostered an healthy respect for what you can do with metals and wood and how quickly it can also put you in harms way. I wish I still had the chance to thank him every time he took my mother aside and silenced her when she expressed concern for my health and well being since she the overprotective type.
My later teens and early twenties were spent in construction because no-one wanted to risk hiring a "fresh' engineering student. The D.I.E. thinking had not permeated these fields yet and employers valued work experience over meeting quotas. My real world experiences remain invaluable because now I can mentor those willing to be taught. I usually ignore those who get added as an obstacle in my path when they consider themselves superior when they cannot describe a basic electro-mechanical relay's operation. It is obvious they were added to the company because some idiot in the H.R. department thought it good to check a box.
My generation (X) survived the fast paced modernization of our world and remain productive due our ability to learn without the aid of computers, smart phones, and the internet. Those of us remaining feel like we are the dwindling glue holding the world together behind the curtain. We will be missed when no-one attempts to learn from our mistakes.
I am glad that my granduncle advised me to cross-train my educational background. I took up physics specializing in astro-physics while "CROSS TRAINED" in mechanical engineering specializing in MACHINE TOOL TECHNOLOGIES and that means getting our hands dirty and oiled up! We first learn how to use a basic manual engine lathe and use it to make an duplicate engine lathe directly and indirectly and multi-indirectly (several stages of machining) and use it to make a metal planer which in turn is used to make a much more precise engine lathe which in turn is used to make a much more precise metal planer and so forth and so on.
Then we were instructed to make a much larger and much more precise engine lathe and metal planer and we did it all in "STAGES" and that also includes in making the micro-meter, calipers, rulers, angle measuring rulers, templates, indexing plates, disc plates, slide rules, vise, lathe chuck, and other work holding components, jigs, fixtures, modular - expandable jigs and fixtures, movable work tables, bolt lockers, tool holders, dies, tool bits, the list is very long and too long. Not only did we make the movable work table but we also make the movable machining equipment on top of it or side of it. We learn also how to make bearings and all of it's components and revolving metal seals using cross hatch machining techniques to make an airtight and water tight and oil tight and gas tight and pressure tight and vacuum tight revolving and sliding metal seals. NO HIGH TECH STUFF ALLOWED!
It is because of these educational courses, which were still being maintained as the strict curriculum in Russia, that all scientists and engineers, a good proportion of them, can turn their mathematical calculations and blue prints into a workable machined tooled prototypes. And valuable hands on experiences in dealing with the unpredictable conditions and situations and circumstances and wisdoms and tricks and tips and techniques were all written down and recorded and microfilmed and recopied many times over for distribution. This is the advantage we have over these
so-called high-tech CNC ROBOTIZED MACHINE TOOLS because they cannot handle or record or observe in real time valuable events and be able to comprehend and interpret them in REAL TIME AND IN TIME so that it can also be recorded and recopied and passed on to the others.
And then from the basic and simple manual engine (1) lathes and (2) metal planers we went in making the (3) drill press, the (4) shaper, the (5) milling machine, (6) the bending machine, the (7) broachers, (8) hydraulic presses, (9) steam pressure gravity drop forgers, (10) steam forgers and (11) pneumatic forgers. Then we went to specialized and customized machine tools used in making screws, bolts, nuts, washers, and rivets which are the glue that held them all together, plus the braces and reinforcers to hold the multi-component based-machine tool platforms.
Then we start making steam engines of all kinds. Electric motors of all kinds. Diesel engines of all kinds. Gasoline engines of all kinds. We were taught to learn how to use the machine tools to make the specialized machine tools and customized machine tools needed to make the final manufacturing machines in making the basic electrical metal components and basic electrical non-metal ceramic and plastic components (we started with bakelite plastic) and in making the machines used in making copper wires and the rubber insulating machines and the machines used in making the copper making machines and rubber insulating machines. And in turn in making the machines used in making synthetic rubbers and in used in mining-processing-smelting-refining copper ores into copper wires, and so forth and so on.
These went on for more than 8 years alongside with my physics (specializing in astro-physics) and in mechanical engineering (specializing in machine tool technology).
And then all of our teachers that all manufactured goods came from factories that in turn were built by machine building factories that in turn were built by heavy engineering factories that in turn were built by machine tool engineering factories which in turn were built by the same machine tool building factories themselves. For machine tools are the only machines that can reproduce themselves and manufacture themselves.
On the 9th year we were tested again and again and again until all of our teachers KNEW AND ARE ONLY SATISFIED that their students has become better than the teachers themselves. Then on the 10th year were we allowed to graduate. AND I CAN VOUCH FOR ALL OF MY CLASSMATES THAT WE ARE ALL TIRED AND GLAD THAT WE ALL MADE IT TO THE TOP! ALL OF US. That was 28 years ago. Russia at that time was in turmoil but on the way of being stabilized by a small clique of core KGB-GRU responsible for our upbringing and care and now we are working for that small clique of Putin's circle as teachers of the next generation of students under our wings. This is what we call ourselves as the "BAND OF BROTHERS" which we adapted from a television series of yours.
@@darthvader5300 are you from Russia? your english seems quite good
@Jordan Peterson
You’re doing long form academic interviews with an entire group of academics who have been shut out of the news cycle for 30+ years. Thankyou.
It’s too bad JP will never receive this. Try sending an email, he reads those.
The real shame is that many such people will never become academics.
More like fifty.
She is one of the most well known scientists in the world…
@@Max-bi8fn well known for sticking her foot in her mouth?? She literally attempted to argue that schools aren't predominantly ran by women. Parents not raising children and schools raising them is a large part of societies issues today. Women are more likely to attempt to teach a child their way of thinking vs a man. Scientists should actually be able to question statements and make rational assessments
She is a firebrand! Very refreshing to hear someone speaking honestly about real issues and with deep knowledge. We need many more voices like these two in today's society.
👍 dutiful vassals ... hard serving serfs .... good ol yard filler ... mulch ..
. it's
great, "to be more practical" = " be useful"
Sounds better than
" Get used,
and take it with a smile.
........................................
"Do it
Or else face punishment,"
Sounds better than
"Face unwarranted
vengeance/hostility/ oppression or violence"
" or being put to disadvantage by over entitled peers whose
belief of the vaule in their
labor
becomes threatened
By your inactivity"......
.................
They will one day realize that
all the money
they had
worked for
Was only used
to cheat them
out of their time ..
and thus had given
away their entire fortune .
Without even realizing it
Business is all about the
" Up sell."
Because if not, there is no money to be made .... ..I can have ideas all day ...
If people buy them, it's because people are dumb.or Indoctrinated..
anybody buying an item ...
is actually selling their time.....
And anybody who's selling an item
Is stealing time ... and giving away their Expedient...
.........
If I trade fair ..
That means if
I invest 1...
I get 1 back.
that means
I'm not any wealthier
than when i had started...PERIOD!!! Your joy is all you're paying for...
And suffering can teach us how to find joy ... but there is no joy with Suffering that which entails no thought...
They profess money.....choking on money....mouthfuls....
And that's
if
I even live long enough
to see a return.....
nobody
is guaranteed
tomorrow .......
now is all we get ...
....................................
And
"People are
Growing up away
from practical"...
Sounds better for a premise than
"People that aren't indoctrinated"
Yes very refreshing she is a class act with the voice of an angel. So encouraging and inclusive. I wish she was my mother
@@zachary7914 lol 😆
@@zachary7914 you obviously don't understand logical fallacies
This is the type you need to lead......
My husband just retired last year from teaching shop (woodworking, small engine repair, robotics mechanical drawing, CAD, etc.). Several reasons contribute to the decline of shop classes. As Dr. Grandin says, schools think everyone is going to go to college; manual laborers/blue collar workers have been demonized for decades as less intelligent and less important than college educated persons working in white collar jobs. The trades were for dummies who couldn't make it in college. It's tragic! The trades are so vital to the effective functioning of our society. And the pay is terrific in most markets. I can tell you that the most popular class my husband ever taught was the Home Maintenance and Repairs class. And he encouraged girls to take his classes, they proved to be some of his best students. Many students are hungry for these classes and have talents that can be nurtured and developed to the betterment of all.
I am an older man and the first shop class I had was in 7th grade. We all took shop every year until we graduated. Small engine repair, welding and woodworking. Those classes, shop and home economics, prepared many of us for the real world far more than any other course.
Like when one nerd asks the others if he knows how a car engine works? They reply "of course!" Then when asked if he can fix one he looks down and says, "No."
I'm on the older side as well, but when I entered high school in 1976, that was the year they moved shop classes to the new vo-tech school up the road. You went half a day, but if you did, you couldn't take the "college prep" versions of the academic classes. The schedules just wouldn't work out.
@@jkbrown5496 Channelizing the youth.
As if a grounding in mechanics is no good for some destined for a university, and a knowledge of university subjects, doesn't benefit a mechanic.
The ideal when I was growing up was to be both literate and competent in physical skills, regardless of livelihood.
@@sanniepstein4835 That was gone by the late ‘70s. Not wrongly at that time as the trades were overflowing with all the 20-somethings dumped out of the factories when they closed. And now those men of the ‘70s are in their 70s and there are few in the pipeline as “to be successful in life you must go to college” has been the chant.
You got that from the movie "October Sky," didn't you?
I remember a scene in that movie where that exchange almost happens exactly that way.
Not complaining, just seemed funny to me.
I totally agree with the points both of them made about how moving off the farm removes the hands-on practical experience in a wide variety of skills. You learn how to improvise when you need your equipment fixed fast and can't afford to pay someone else to fix it or you can't wait for them to fix it. My father was a machinist who came off the farm. Over the years, he saw a totally different level of understanding in the kids from the city coming out of shop class from the kids who came from the farms who had been practicing mechanical skills their entire lives. I like to watch homesteader youtubers, and I watch the fathers in those videos training their sons and daughters. Sometimes the father will teach a skill to the child, but sometimes the father will turn the child loose to figure it out on their own with a few guiding principles. When you figure it out on your own, you have a far deeper understanding and become far more creative in your problem solving skills.
The other thing you learn on the farm is the work ethic. That may be the bigger problem that Jordan is skipping over. If you are motivated to work and have experience at working hard, then you will figure out how to do a different kind of work, and learning the tools and the skills is just part of the job.
I hear people complain about $100 oil changes for cars and i can't understand why someone would pay that much. 90 percent of the oil change is gravity. I find that people are buying electric cars for reasons like that, and they can't change a flat tire either.
There is also the problem of manufacturers making their stuff impossible to repair (even illegal to repair) by design. see also Louis Rossman. Now there would be a good guy to interview.
@@jackiekjono Yes, these new cars are a nightmare.
I get the impression you will not be a good parent.
@@WiseOwl_1408 Yeah, teaching children to have values is just sooooo last century. *eyeroll*
I have decades of experience of being a general contractor and I know many things about the procedures and the mathematics of Contracting. Recently I had a potential customer that was a academically educated woman that was trying to compare my price with the price of a non contractor what we call a jackleg who didn't know what he was talking about, while trying to get me to do the work at his price. As I started to explain the details of what actually was needed to be done and why, she accused me of just trying to do mansplaining just to justify a higher price, even though she didn't let me finish and knew nothing about what I was trying to explain to her benefit. She proceeded to tell me how she was an educated woman, indicating I wasn't as smart as she was. Because of her arrogance, I informed her it was not my privilege to work for her for what any price she wanted to pay and that I was not interested in doing the work. I happen to be white and she then accused me of having white privilege and being a racist. If this is the result of formal education I am very glad that I did not get a formal education.
I'm an Industrial Mechanic. In my opinion, people who went to school for a trade are typically far inferior to those who learned it from experience. This discussion is faulty because as psychologists, they have a bias towards formal and classroom education. Trades need to be learned through years of hobby and necessity, or through apprenticeship. I mostly work on robots now, and nearly all of my peers had spent a lifetime of building things, fixing things, and taking them apart since they were a small child, with apprenticeship in the form of employment in the field to sharpen them into extreme competence. There is a fearlessness, a confidence, that comes with taking things apart and making things with your hands as a child. Adults are beaten into fear of failure, "that's too hard", "I might mess it up", "I don't know how to do that", which trade people never learned. We will figure it out, if we mess it up, we'll fix it on the second attempt. You can't teach that fearlessness in a classroom.
Jordan is patient and Temple's a card. Interesting and extraordinary interaction between two very different and intelligent types of communicators.
A card?
@@Rawdiswar card is american slang for a type of comedian. I wouldn't use that term on Grandin. She wants to dominate the conversation at every step. Annoying
@@susampson278 never heard that term before, thanks.
@@susampson278 Maybe, but she's not wrong.
@@0utdoorsman You can be right on the merits of your argument, but you can fail that argument by virtue of being the vessel conveying it and how you go about that.
Some people commented they could tell she 'had to stand up for herself a lot' (in life). That's not an excuse to interrupt somebody half-way through their point. Like some sort of verbal incontinence. You can still respond and make your point if you literally wait for like 5 more seconds. Instead, her behaviour plays into all the negative stereotypes about women, i.e. Karen etc. It's like a feminist's perception of what male behaviour is typically like and their adoption of it, i.e. loud, obnoxious, domineering, interrupting.
This is almost an example of what JP talks about when he says - don't be harmless, become a monster, and then learn to control it. She is not in control here.
I raised my kids to be able to do most house work themselves. Everything from changing their own tires, checking and changing their own oil. Changing light switches safely. Basically all the shit men back in the day were expected to do. My twin daughters and my son could do everything and they were happy to be able to do it. I remember some of their friends coming to me to teach them how to do stuff, how to work on their own cars etc. I even showed the wife how to rebuild both a lawn mower engine and later on with the help of a few books a 350 chevy motor as well.
For me it's hard to understand why people are so afraid of this now days. I mean yeah I've used an electrician and a plumber for some things, I don't know it all but simple shit it's just unacceptable that people can't or won't do it themselves.
Some one below me mentioned that he ran into problems with people expecting you to have experience when you're fresh into the market, I ran into that as well in my youth. I flatly lied a few times to get a job. I knew I could do it and I did it.
I dunno, I'm glad I'm old and don't have much time left. This world has gone to shit and the only thing that's gonna fix it is a big ass war to snap everyone back into reality. What's the quote,,,, "Hard times make hard men, hard men make soft times, soft times make soft men, soft men make hard times." Probably not accurately quoted, but yeah people have it to easy now days, they got far to much free time to sit and whine about bullshit.
That quite about soft men is true and all but when you consider how much the west vilifies masculinity it makes the problem even worse. In the UK they can't even recruit enough men into the military, they are erasing masculinity and eventually we will reach the end of our civilization.
Love your comment…
As a multi tradesmen, residential, commercial, industrial technicians I can attest this is spot on. I have been saying for years that capable tradesmen will be the most valuable workers in the future.
Oh so right Jack. The This Old House tradesmen have been saying this for years. My Dad was concerned,too. He was a Tool and Die engineer and designer. Very sought after by the big Three for help with design and dies. I know carpenters who are very concerned. It's a huge concern.
But the pay and working conditions is terrible in comparison to getting a diploma and sitting behind a computer and coding for $80-$100K in comfort.
@@aorg9793 Can't argue that. I get through most nasty work days thinking, " Well look at the bright side, at least nobody is shooting at us ". I foresee the capable trades people being the most valued in the not to distant future. I always get a kick out this front line workers are heroes narrative. The trades are the line.
Too many that are in control of the coin believe it is management that build things. Management knows different but they are not talking.
Sadly we lost the Mind and Hand effort to make schools that train both expression by writing and speaking and by creation by hand. The effort was to teach by doing and use that to give the theory relevance. They are reinventing this as if it was never thought of before, but MIT was founded on the principle then muddied their mission with more theory than hands on.
"In the light of this analysis Carlyle's rhapsody on tools becomes a prosaic fact, and his conclusion-that man without tools is nothing, with tools all-points the way to the discovery of the philosopher's stone in education. For if man without tools is nothing, to be unable to use tools is to be destitute of power; and if with tools he is all, to be able to use tools is to be all-powerful. And this power in the concrete, the power to do some useful thing for man-this is the last analysis of educational truth."
-Charles H. Ham, Mind and Hand: manual training, the chief factor in education (1900) (1886)
I am a Master Tech and Welder with 24+ years under my belt. I have watched the fall of qualified techs in the field here in the states. We are living in a disposable economy.
Same brother. I work in residential/commercial service plumbing. I'm trying to learn all i can before the older guys retire. So many people are just installers of parts. They dont know how to troubleshoot plumbing problems. They want to replace everything. Some of what i see is atrocious. I dont pretend to he the best, but there is a lot of sloppy and just dangerous work going on.
I am becoming an electrician and the union has all these tests and procedures. Aftet that thay put you on a waiting list. But that makes less sense because there is a shortage of labor and a surplus of demand. I would rather have 1 year of lower wage work and earning my aprentestship then wate for the higher paid work. So now I am scrambling for various work on my own just to move up the list faster. It goes like this, application, 2 aptitude tests, 3 interviews, put on a waiting list, get an approved construction job inorder to improve your list ranking, retake the interviews, move up the list, wate, receive the union contract, re- interview, your in.
That being said you get 2 pensions, higher wages (even after union dues), union training (in addition to your on job training and aprentestship), contractor pays your insurance (you dont need to pay for insurance), additional optional training after completing your first training, educational partnerships with colleges that allow you to wave all general education programs and gain a degree (or 2 if you want), if you cant get a job after 1 year they can transfer you to another state for work.
@@johnjay370 this kind of crap is going on in every field that requires a license which also contributes to under the table work.
@@victorhopper6774 or working for smaller contract companies like I am doing.
@@johnjay370 well its obvious that if everything done was at prevailing wage not much would get done and a lot more people would be homeless.
I lived in Minneapolis when the I-35W bridge over the Mississippi river collapsed. That bridge was being renovated. Yes, it was “too light”, but the real reason for the collapse is that large portions of the roadbed were removed, revealing in plain sight the supporting structures and the river below to tens-of-thousands of passing motorists EVERY DAY, detoured to one side of the bridge. HALF of the bridge over lengthy spans was without the structural benefit of the roadbed which was tying-together the steel beams, struts, and various bracings. Many structures rely on a ‘skin’, such as plywood, or even sheetrock to unitize the entire structure into a reliable, distributed load-bearing mass. The bridge is no different, just bigger. The gusset plates and the corroded metal connections of the already under-built bridge were thus made much weaker by the removal of its “skin”. What’s more, the demolition involved vibrations of jackhammers and heavy equipment, further compromised the strength, such as it was, while also permitting thousands of vehicles such as mine to pass by each day-all concentrated to just one side.
The foremost cause of the catastrophe was the faulty renovation procedures and should have been assigned to the Contractor, the Construction Plan Reviewers, Inspectors, and the plans of the engineer(s) who all failed to consider, oversee, and/or ignored the inevitable consequences of the work methods and traffic management.
I realize this note is a tangent and not an especially direct comment on the conversation between Grandin and Peterson. But after all these years, and not having heard or read of anyone criticizing what I have noted here, I felt like contributing my perspective.
My dad was a structural steel draftsman in Minnesota. That bridge that fell down I’m Minneapolis was the sort of thing he warned me about, that bridges were being built that would not support the growth that would hit the highway infrastructure. Bridges was what he specialized in.
@@john0270 you can’t build bridges without math
@@john0270 Dude, math is heavily involved in building bridges... I learned how to build bridge models in shop class... How do you not know this? You must be generation Z...🤣
@@ShakeDownStreet0714 you could also completly miss what John was talking about... And insert your "Math is important" BS
I’d like to point out, that many of the old bridges and structures in Europe were built at a time when less than a dozen or so mathematicians existed and could do basic long division. Many of the bridges and aqueducts were constructed in Ancient Rome before simple algebra was a thing. My point isn’t to debate the importance of mathematics and science in structural mechanics, but to however point out that trial and error and experience can take you a very very long ways. As a Society we tend to over emphasize calculation, over experience and I’m concerned we’ll pay dearly in the coming years.
I love the clash of personalities. This is my favorite interview so far, Doc.
Two very gifted, but different people. Yeah, I just loved the banter. Two very large, but different brains. But what is the title of her new book ?
Common ground of material competencies so fertile here. Love them both so much for this work! I took auto mechanics as a girl in high school in the 70s. I was later dxed autistic. Spent childhood deep in the woods, with horses and cows and goats, worked on dairy farms in college, ...I finally got advanced Algebra concepts from studying DC circuits. My analytical ability took off from the digital electronics course I took. HANDS ON is my style. Real world applications. Material competencies, yep.
@@ROTALOT I taught shop for forty years. I learned that there are eight billion persons in the world and that they all have different gifts. Gifts. Not disabilities needing interventions. Schools need to find the gifts and fan the flames of giftedness. You know immediately when a school system has nothing to offer when they rely heavily on one size fits all standardized testing.
I totally agree our world is turning into people who can't use a pair of scissors, or repair or build even the simplest things. I haven't heard anything about Dr. temple Grandin for a long time. It's so great to hear of the vital work she is continuing to do.
Oh fuck like honestly if they aren't super sharp scissors then like I always feel like I struggle to cut what I need to cut sometimes if it is super flimsy
Maybe I'm fucking useless oh well you got me haha
Yeah it's getting sad out there I worked with a guy 32 years old he was stuck because he didn't know how to pump gas. His parents always did it for him.
they dont care there is going to be no jobs anymore so why have any skill? thats the plan.
@@dojocho1894 Who is they? And how would that benefit any one?
I was working on an oil sands site and I was fired for not taking the vaccine. There are vacancies for the exact job I was doing, and I reached out to come back to work and my employer is flat out ignoring me. They would rather have a vacancy and worsen the labor shortage, spend a year training someone new with time resources they don't have, then even speak to me again because they know I was right and they were wrong and they can never admit the mandates were bad.
They have the exact same issue. They don't have enough trainers to train new people and it kills them to pull the most experienced people off the job to train. Employers try hiring educated book doofuses to train new workers and I can testify with first hand knowledge when you do this you only get more dummies trained by dummies to be dummies. They don't have enough HR staff to onboard people fast enough. It's spiraling out of control and the solution at corporate is to keep censoring people who question them and their failing policies to prevent a worker rebellion which is coming by the way.
I grew up a farm girl. And once I was involved in a community project, where a bunch of college students came to help beautify a school. These big strong guys didn’t know how to open a can of paint or how to transplant a tree. I was really shocked.
And it’s getting worse. Generation Z can’t even change a tire.
I think millennials are the first generation where the technology has become too advanced and changes too quickly for DIY to be an option. The only choice now is to throw things out when they stop working and buy new things built by wage slaves in third world countries.
It’s getting weird. I noticed something the other day. Both my parents were raised on a farm & growing up I never saw either one of them sit in front of a tv. They worked from sun up to sun down around the house. Never saw them being lazy. Insane work ethic that was 100% normal back in the day. It’s why I cringe now when I see a man sit in fro t of a tv watching sports or tv shows. Which makes me so odd in this world, but my parents were so mature. I don’t even recognize adults today.
@@kimberlybanks9969 reminds me of seeing the tv room in the army being packed with 19 year olds on saturday mornings watching cartoons. being a farm boy my cartoon life ended about 5 years old.
Born in 1946 and raised 18 years on an old fashioned dairy farm. All labor, little mechanization. At 18, I worked an entire year, 7 days a week on getting up at 3:30 in the morning to milk the cows. Never even thought of that as being abnormal work life until I went to the city to get 'educated'. I got educated in how totally slack most city people think... like sick leave, 3 days a month. Really? In over 60 years of work, I missed 5 days of work, because I got malaria in Africa on a job there.
Temple is an icon and absolute giant in industrial design and animal/herd management for processing ….. she has insights into nonverbal processing ground breaking engineering that absolutely no one else is even capable of ….. absolutely remarkable
I would like to add here back when I was in school I absolutely loved the shop classes and felt like I was learning so much and so engaged. However, many kids took these classes to screw off and would deliberately disrespect the expensive equipment. Welding chairs to the wall for example. It honestly made me really sad because I genuinely loved the classes and we had such a good teacher that deserved much more respect than he got. One kid drew swastikas on every page of a woodworking textbook and I was honestly pretty upset and ratted his dumbass out. I feel like this is a reason they've dropped these classes. The kids, are shittier and disrespectful. Sorry Mr.Ydstie, thanks for being a cool cat to the kids that cared.
This really is it. The US has more single moms than any other place in the world. Kids are crappy because parenting is hard - even with two. A single mom simply can't instill the discipline and respect a boy needs in order to be productive.
Was that in the 90s? I feel like my high school had a hell of a lot of that shit too.
But welding a chair to the wall is pretty hysterical, actually!
@@Captain_MonsterFart At least they learned welding. Actually, its nothing so ominous. Just look at where the jobs are. Learning carpentry is going to give you a pretty precarious existence. I know, I'm a carpenter.
Oh Lord...kids always do crazy stuff... In welding class we had this Mexican kid thats family was cartel and he brought in this giant bag of meth because I jokingly said I could sell....anyway him and I were the worst welders.
But later on he got his welding cert and worked as a welder until dying in a car accident.
The trades we're looked down on then. That has come to an end. Shop class will now have a different view.
My sister has 2 degrees , in early child development and education she can write a dissertation in her sleep , and I didn't finish school, I have dyslexia and in the 80s in the UK if you were a girl and had any kind of learning difficulty you were considered thick and would spend most of your time stood outside the class so as not to disrupt the rest of the kids . I ended up doing joinery , I can visualize plans and I can look at things and understand how to assemble them without reading the instructions . My sister cant wire a plug and has no idea about size or dimensions , and you can describe what you will build or make till you are blue in the face, and she has no idea what you are talking about . SCHOOLS in my experience have very little time or energy to deal with kids that won't fit into their neat little boxes and if you are a kid who will complain or won't conform then you are an even bigger problem, and they will make life miserable for you , I couldn't wait to get the hell out of the place .
I was always college-bound and my brother was always... not-college-bound. Our mom complained to me about his not doing well in school and I tried to explain to her that he had other motivations than I did that did not match well with how school worked. So I eventually came out 33rd in my graduating class headed for engineering school, and he came out 1st in his auto mechanics vocational school class. Then he got involved in union organization (it's your fault, mom, because you one upon a time were a unionist) and he could no longer get a job. So, he went back to school... for computer science. He did very well and got many good jobs with the transportation industries in our area and for Y2K created his own body shop fixing mainframe systems.
Turns out we both have dyslexia - my case is relatively mild (reading is a chore for me), his is more severe, his daughter was crash-and-burn in the school system. But our brains allow us to deal with 3D problems more naturally than the average bear. For my brother we discover that there is a lot of similarity in structure between an automobile engine and a mainframe software system (and in my case, a flight simulator, a jet engine test stand, or a RADAR processor).
And college-trained teachers are not dyslexic because colleges are not good about working with diversity... really...
No Kidding! I known about this woman for a few decades. Me and my brother had bicycles growing up in the 1960's. One of our bikes broke down and a fellow helped us out. He said that he would help us that time, but no more. That got me and my brother to figure it out at first using pliers then we got a screwdriver, then later a bike repair kit. Over time we were doing minor fixes to mom's car, an old 1954 Hudson Wasp. We had shop (wood, metal and print) in school. I did electronics repair as a career. Now we have Millennials that don't know how to replace a light bulb nor reset the GFCI breaker in the bathroom! My Jr high school history teacher warned us students that the parents didn't want their kids to work with their hands. Instead the parents want the kids get high-paying, back-stabbing white collar jobs.
Bless Temple's heart. I feel her excitement in speaking about these topics. It is my eagerness to engage in a certain dialogue sometimes that leads to what others see as abruptness or rudeness. Peterson understands and so do I.
This conversation should have been done in person so as to catch the visual cues needed between these two highly intelligent individuals.
Agree. It should be done in person, let alone with temple grandin
I think way more of his conversations should be in person. They are the anomaly. I think we would all benefit if it was the custom
Love this woman. I could tell she had to stand up for herself a lot. She’s very wise , honest and intelligent.
@@williamoarlock8634 She’s a lot more human than you will ever be.
@@derrickj925 Or you for that matter.
@@williamoarlock8634 good thing you delete that last comment. I’m glad what I said took out that nasty comment that you made. Cheers
She doesn't just sit on her ass and complain about the patriarchy.
@@randallgoldapp9510 Grandin benefits from corporatocracy.
When I lived in Toronto, whenever I'd meet someone and they learned I'm from Hamilton, the reaction was often, "Oh, Hamilton! Then you must know how to fix things right"? I would go around on weekends hanging doors up on hinges and doing other menial, quick in-and-out, around-the-house jobs for cash at $300+ a pop, for women who were more than happy to pay it. All the while, their useless husbands stood behind me supervising, rubbing their chin saying things like, "That's not how they did it on the RUclips video", to which I'd reply with something to the effect of, "Buddy, if you could find your a55 with both your hands, your wife wouldn't have had to hire me to come do this in the first place".
Learn a trade. Be a useful member of society.Take pride in self-reliance and keep your hands out of other people's pockets.
I worked in the news industry for 10 years and because of that job I no longer like technology. Automation does not work well. It's easier to deal with a bad employee than with a computer system that crashes. Before automation, we rarely had issues with our video play system. When we switched over to automation, that thing would crashed 10 minutes before the show and it took a half an hour to reboot the servers. A half an hour without video for a newscast is devastating, you basically don't have a show. I do fear that we're placing too much trust in these computer systems that haven't proven their long lasting worth. The worst part about automation is that there's no one to blame for lost revenue, it can really drive a gigantic divide between management and employees because the control is out of their hands, they're relying on computers to work, it's ridiculous and then you can't tell if someone is lying or telling the truth because everyone can just blame the computer.
During my high school years in Jamaica, you could do up to two skills until graduation. You could choose from welding, carpentry, plumming, agriculture, machine shop, electrical installation, technical drawing and food and nutrition. After high school you could then go to trade school to further your skills for an extra 1 to 2 years and go to uni afterwards if you still wanted to. Having a skill even made you more attrative to uni because of the practical experience.
I agree that you need to have a hands-on approach to the material world to understand it but I come from a line of hands-on engineers without degrees who got down and dirty every day trying to make things work like they were supposed to do. Not going to college and getting lost in your own head in theory instead of working with the material world would stop a lot of the nonsense that we have to put up with from academics, politicians, and bureaucrats who don't care about real results as long as they can fiddle with the statistics to make it look like things are working.
Another problem: I was talking to a friend the other day who's having to remodel his sister's house because the contractor took $20,000 and ran. Almost everybody has a story like this, right? If you can't get honest tradesmen, why would anybody want to deal with them? The government won't do anything to stop this from happening as long as they get their cut.
I built my own house; my dad and mom built their own house; my uncle and aunt built their own house. We got together and built things. My brother is the odd one - he hired people to build his house.
I am retired after 45 years as a Respiratory Therapist. I went the Vocational /Technical school route. No debt following school, worked my way up. Did complete a science degree after I started working full time. Running up a giant school bill before you every get a job is a bad idea. Learn a skill and go to work. Go to college when you can pay for it. Two-year schools are a great value.
Finally this is being discussed. I started with grade 10 shop classes and ended up at NRC designing diving communication and support equipment. Also have 2 patents and published a medical paper.
I learned to weld, pour concrete, rebuild engines, carpentry, veterinary and nutrition, about soil biology, plant health, stockmanship which lead me to horsemanship which taught me about life. It all started on a dairy farm. I never learned much in school. My greatest teachers were the machines I spent hours operating and maintaining, the cattle and sheep I spent hours caring for, the troubled horses I've ridden the people I worked for, a couple of which only had an eighth grade education, and a cowboy and horseman from Alberta who became my friend and mentor as well as my dad who taught me how to be a man, a self-sufficient man.
"Non verbal intelligence" There's no way to bullshit your way through a job that requires skill
Bingo. That is why I don't believe in "Project Managers" and any other high-power-distance hierarchies. Hire the doers and they will understand how to manage their own projects. Hire deferential meeting-goers and all you will get is chaos clouded by blown smoke, and meetings about how to micromanage something that isn't working.
Watch the pilot episode of The IT Crowd.
@@jmfs3497 "Project Managers" are what you get when Academics study the Construction industry and completely misunderstand what "General Contractors" do.
@@thatotherguy8138 And they are in every industry. I started in Radio and 40 years later I work in VR and 3D and I still get Project Managers who want to micromanage something they have zero experience in. It's like their entire job is to squeeze themselves between me and the clients and smile and laugh and say yes to everything, and even the clients ask if we can meet in secret without the PMs, because the PMs can't even ask the right questions. Makes zero sense.
The most life affirming thing I saw this year was the dump truck driver who laid my gravel driveway and only got out of his truck to shake my hand and take payment. I missed being around someone that couldn't fake being good their job.
What an excellent way to describe it, EIB :)
I also agree with those who have said unqualified project managers are a blight all over most industries. The good ones are those that know enough to know when an employee knows their job and stay the heck out of their way.
I've seen this in trucking too. Men and women drivers who don't display much in the way of intellect, but can maneuver a rig in near miraculous ways.
Intelligence is liquid. I suppose mine sloshed to some strange adjustment focused side of my brain.
They ran those hands in the early 90s.Im the steering wheel holding brain child that replaced them in the name of SAFETY(Newsflash:the safety numbers hardly moved).
It was all💰grab & they've f'd over supply system w/their game playing
Ah yes, the natural conclusion of degrees in things that don’t need a degree, not hiring people who are qualified but don’t have a degree, and the complete disregard for fundamental infrastructure positions can’t possibly go wrong…
Just a by-product of the giant college loan scam that has financially devastated thousands.
No kidding. After a friend of mine finished his bachelor of mechanical engineering, the first job he got was for civil engineering. The degree and the job didn't have much in common. What was even more ridiculous is that a co-worker of his, with the same job mind you, had a bachelor's degree in theology. He then told me that it didn't matter what your degree was in. To get hired, all that mattered was that you have a bachelors or better.
🤣 it's funny cause ur delivery. 😢Its sad cause it's true
My wife is an Occupational therapist. Today it requires a master's degree. The pay is $50,000 at best. No one is going to spend the amount of money required to get the degrees for that pay level. You don't need a degree to teach kids to weld. You do need to be a journeyman. Hell I learned in our farm shop just out of necessity.
We have been fooled by the educators who were fooled to think they were good at ANYTHING beyond teaching basic understanding and that the most important priority of those who pay them is nothing but peer association…and since they think they can socially engineeer their bullsh!t by flooding colleges with kids who didn’t academically earn or pay for their admission to college, they have all but ruined their hold and influence on the future-thankfully!
Even in degree programs there is failure to impart knowledge. Too much online 'teaching' that seeks only to check boxes and collect tuition fees. Students are not receiving useful information. Most of the useful, applicable knowledge that I actually have used in life, I gleaned from anecdotal stories from my instructors and ensuing class interchange between instructor and students. I graduated from college in 1982. My children's college courses have been dominated by online 'learning'. Because it's online, the courses/syllabus' timelines are often accelerated so the student does not have time to read and learn the material- just hunt and grab the right answer in order to complete the test/assignment 'in time' They know they haven't really learned the material.
These college grads are designing buildings, bridges, planes... How much longer will any of us risk boarding a plane or move into a high rise apt building...
I am a 67 yo aspie.
I made my living as a lab tech and store manager of optical shops.
I was not really welcome by the men who had dominated the industry in my area but I had a bit of a pit bull personality and I forged ahead. I was terrible at math but discovered the equasions used for the lab work were not difficult for me as they made sense for determining curves needed to produce powers to allow people to see properly.
I also discovered that I made a good store manager and even discovered I was good at designing charts for keeping up with payroll, cost of goods and such.
I was in the business for decades and often made business trips for the company and for my own own desire to see the country.
I had been in church my entire life and choir in school and mention that because the vocally and musically gifted lost those arenas in school as well.
I had always had an insatiable desire for the scriptures and in my early 50's I discovered as I had asked Yehovah for Wisdom in understanding them that I began receiving a great understanding of them never taught by the pastors and teachers.
So in my life, I found more than one area I could become an expert in.
Dr. Grandin is far beyond me in some areas, but I look at my chosen field and see zero people who can determine base curves and cross curves to determine power.
Everything is done by computer now and the people making eye glasses know nothing about the true craft and have never sat down with 12 volumes of books to understand it all.
"I was not really welcome by the men who had dominated the industry in my area but I had a bit of a pit bull personality"
Do you see a cause and effect between these 2 things?
Thank you for interviewing Dr. Temple Grandin We have to understand there are all types of people that are endowed by there Creator with specific gifts and talents . one size does not fit all.
is that a polite way of saying that she's kinda kookie?? ;)
@@jaybefaulky4902 Wow... My first thought was Chris Chan really pulled his life together.
@@jaybefaulky4902 you don't make it anywhere near the top being average
@@markymark4756 It does look very similar to Chris Chan.
@@markymark4756 who is chris chan?
The day I linked my practical and theory together was the day I began excelling in maths. Strict theory never stuck. Theory followed by application, stuck like cement.
That's like learning to play chess. If you had to learn and memorize all the chess rules beforehand you'd probably struggle unless you had a very high functioning IQ in that area. If you start playing chess while simultaneously learning the chess rules it'll be a more satisfying experience and ultimately you'll be better for it. I just repeated what you said but using way more words. What do I win?
I'm taking a machining class at the local community college, and the Prof mentioned that they dropped their education requirements to hire him because they could not find anyone with the educational background to teach the course. He had 30 years experience in the field, though.
I substitute taught computer classes for a coworker with an Art degree. I studied computer science in college and worked in the field. The students apparently liked my teaching better than his, because several went to the Dean. She caught up with me one day to ask f I had a degree, in ANYTHING, to work there. But since I didn't, and they were an accredited school, they couldn't hire me.
But the guy with the art degree who just sat there reading a book during class was fine.
@@recoveringsoul755 smh
The university requirement every place has is total bull. I've got 10 years experience in the world of work and can tell you that the stupidest people I've had to deal with have usually got degrees, and some of the smartest and most competent people didn't. A degree is meaningless. The system is more like a club, a club of the indebted that simply doesn't like people who didn't get suckered for 50k plus interest just to enter the world of work. It's just a way of outsourcing intelligence testing to a third party, but that third party (the universities) will pretty much give anyone their stamp of approval just because of the money.
College these days just make people more stupid, anyway.
@@Hashterix I studied a year of music at a certain decadent Australian conservatory(where some faculty+student got away with serious academic misconduct) in 2017 and I ended up switching to an non-music degree and getting music tuition privately(from field leaders abroad via online). Although it was difficult to maintain 2 careers simultaneously, I got far more international opportunities in my music career than I ever did in that conservatory, and I learnt far more stuff as well- all that was missing was a degree certificate and a huge amount of uni fees for that career. Unless you're in something STEM or law, there are other ways to build yourself career at a far lower cost!
Part of the problem is large corporations making it impossible, and even legally problematic to fix equipment you bought from them - everything from Apple phones to John Deere tractors. Louis Rossman has dedicated much of his life and RUclips channel fighting for "Right to Repair." Many farmers can no longer fix their own tractors because John Deere simply won't sell them the parts, or provide the necessary information to diagnose and find faults.
Corporations simply don't want to you fix their stuff. It's much better for their bottom line for you to buy a new one. It's a serious legal battle in a number of states, and if you want to keep that right, you're going to have to go up against corporations and the politicians they have already paid for.
Good luck.
IBM started that in the 60s
I'm an engineer and managed factories for 20 years. I can tell you that factories are mismanaged all over the country. The HR managers have zero technical ability and they push hires based on social interactions (many trades people are rough and tough). The training is lacking once you get the job. The equipment is frequently old. The safety manager comes out and cranks people out for not wearing their glasses and ear protection properly. The quality manager occasionally comes out on the shop floor but only when there is a large quality issue. The people who keep the place running are the manufacturing engineers, maintenance and a few skilled trades people (who are usually quite senior).
All of this incompetence at the managerial level breeds a very negative environment that works its way to the lowest level employee. The shop manager is constantly beat up by the general manager/plant manager. It doesn't matter how much was accomplished yesterday, 2-3x will be required today and not one penny of yesterdays efforts will ever make it into his pockets.
I loved my time in manufacturing operations and management, but the constant negativity from everyone was killing me. There is an assumption that you are a slave to the factory and anything the factory needs is prioritized over your personal life. I worked countless 60+ hr weeks. Until that changes, people will not want to work in them.
I'm very happy to now take that experience and apply it to selling industrial automation equipment. I only regret I didn't choose this path sooner.
I find it interesting to hear them trying to figure out what happened. I'm one of those whom it happened to repeatedly. There is a movement in China that is translated into let it rot. It came from the back to the farm movement of the 60's. These young people left the farm, went to university, got their degrees and now can't find good paying jobs. So they have taken to sloth or have returned to the family farm to help the grandparents. Either way they are just going to let postmodern China rot. That's how I feel after all the success I had with the ETOP program at Lucent Tech. We reeducated the workforce of 8 former WECO factories so they could survive outsourcing of their jobs. I could write a book but have been discouraged by woke culture.
Is it possible at my age (58) to learn some kind of trade skill like carpentry?
@@elzoog it's never too late. First, take care of your health to he sure and live a long life. Imagine that 58 is not old if your life expectancy is a robust 100+ therefore the potential for a 40 yr long career.
@@elzoog Never too large, but do not underestimate the effort and time that will be required. Remember that mastery of anything requires thousands of hours of practice. Consider taking aptitude tests to see where you are strong before embarking on your journey. Also, find some skilled tradesmen in your area and talk to them. I am sure many would be glad to help you and may even be an entry ramp to apprentice into new career. Finally, in my experience, those who excel at any endeavor are they who have genuine passion for the field and are driven to create superior results (good enough is never good enough) -- find your passion and fan the embers of your drive into flame.
@@elzoog Of course. As she mentioned there are community colleges in Colorado with such programs. We have a tech college here that teaches trades. A two year program includes hands on experience helping with Habitat for Humanity projects. Contractors hire them into apprentice programs. At your age you should consider the physicality of the occupation and your own ability. Most folks ended up learning to code because we were already trained in technology. Kind of stupid and ignorant to tell people who just lost their second job coding before Y2K to learn to code. Still several were able to finish a degree and one person, Karen, started a cake business that is well known and has several location in the Metro.
@@OldBillOverHill "Kind of stupid and ignorant to tell people who just lost their second job coding before Y2K to learn to code."
That's what happened to me. I was doing C++ programming (with a bit of Visual Basic) back in the 1990s but got laid off in 2001. Because I was having a hard time getting another programming job, I decided to go to South Korea in 2003 to teach English. Been living in Asia ever since (currently in Shangrao China). I have a bachelor's degree in mathematics, for whatever that's worth.
Mainly worried about what I can do if I go back to the US.
As a woman, I have never been more grateful for a class in my life, than I was for “shop”. It gave me confidence, to use tools, that I have utilized my entire life. It has made me much more self sufficient.
A friend (woman) called a service to come out and change the light bulb in her refrigerator. The service man showed her how simple it was to do and then gave her the bill for $75. She was a bit meek thereafter!
When I was young, everyone in middle school took Industrial Arts (metal shop, wood shop, and handcraft) and Home Economics (cooking, budgeting, and sewing).
Most useful classes I ever had.
Funny enough, as a man the same thing happened to me. Was brought up in academic school but my talents was more technical. Following my desire to build things, I got tools and pretty much taught myself.
Really wished I went to Tech instead.
Perhaps this speaks to why the computer models that we use to inform policy decisions often lead to such disasterous results. It's an insinuation of pure academia into the real world. Millions of important variables are invariably discarded or overlooked, because the people behind the models have no meaningful field experience and quite literally have no idea what they're doing.
Polanyi and Hayek on tacit knowledge.
Computer models are a stupid way to predict anything, anyway, even just speaking academically. All they do is generate a set of coefficients for a gigantic, impenetrable equation based on a bunch of input data. Anyone who understands how science is actually supposed to work can see how that would go wrong. And in fact, the problems with doing it are extremely well known by the people who develop all the mathematical frameworks; they have names like "over fitting." There are all sorts of techniques for trying to eliminate the fact that the equation is based only on a small sample of test data. But there's obviously nothing you can do if you're actually missing important variables or if the input data isn't even reliable to begin with (e.g., climate). The people who work in the field either can't or are unwilling to draw the correct conclusion from that: the methodology is bogus from the get go, probably because admitting that would mean having to find a new career.
@@BladeOfLight16 agreed. People who live in an academic bubble are rarely capable of accommodating real world complexity. Especially when you're high IQ and regularly rewarded for your accomplishments. Try explaining to someone like that that the little program they designed fails to account for millions of variables.
Ive been a trades person all my life as has been most my family. The reason they cannot find a shop teacher in Colorado is the 50k/ year salary. Try living in the metro Denver area for that. Now try trade wages in the Denver area, essentially flat for 12 years. A person can make the same wage for plumbing/hvac and carpentry in Wisconsin,South Dakota, Nebraska or many others as in Denver and the cost of a home is 50% less. After 24+ of trades I have a bad back and doing the same work as I did at 20 due to a lack of help. I left and went to work for a utility where I make a great wage and don’t have to break concrete and drag equipment up/down stairs all day. Minimum starting wage for a skilled craftsman should be 70k in most areas and 90k in a metro area. Small independent guys feel if they’re taking home 60k and have a new truck they’re doing good, now look at your profit margin, of which few can compute, health sosts, retirement, and length of working career/ wear on body.
The best education a person can get is a practical education. That only happens by working in a trade. Every job, every location, every environment contributes to growing your skill and to the person you are. You learn to face challenges head on and to overcome them. In a trade, you're not given the answers, you're taught the tools to find the right answers. I've been to university, I have degree. It did nothing for me. The trade I learned after that degree did everything for me. It shaped me, taught me to find strength and opened a world of possibilities that a university never could.
She's very passionate!
Very few people can interrupt peterson like that with impunity.
She's clearly a brilliant person!
No, just rude
And how is that good?
@@sillymesilly I think she's on the autism spectrum (obviously high functioning) which can result in being "rude" sometimes.
@@sillymesilly she is autistic and they are clearly having delay difficulty on their call
@@sillymesilly She's autistic, and has a long history of teaching people to understand better how animals think. Jordan has mentioned her with some reverence in the past about how her insight has led to better treatment of animals. He clearly understands that she's not necessarily rude, but that she is a bit difficult to communicate with, especially when she is excited about the topic.
I am a software developer. I have worked with several people who had little to no ability to develop software, troubleshoot software, test software. Some of these people had formal training in software and were mentored by capable people, yet were more or less ineffective at their job or worse - making problems for others. I've seen someone with 10 years experience literally not know where to start on a relatively simple task or bug. I could easily be convinced there is some mental capacity these people did not posess, despite being highly capable in other areas, and seemingly intelligent.
Part of the problem with devs is that during the education, a lot of the things you try get shot down. In my experience most educators in IT (as well as Physics, Math aso.) tend to be weak socially
Students try to be creative and solve something, but they got shot down for deviating from the optimal solution. Instead of nudging them towards the optimal solution, these "educators" make these kids feel incompetent. People who are great at IT and great at teaching are extremely rare.
@@dansuniverse9642 I noticed in software development that you might have to employ an unoptimal solution if you want to get it done in a timely manner.
Check out what Bonhoeffer said about stupid people.
I’m certainly of the opinion there are different types of thinkers. People that use information and their brain in different ways. I’ve experienced this in people around me in my life. I think not recognizing these differences and teaching them to people can waste a lot of resources for them personally and within the community. People need to be able to recognize early on what types of skills they possess and how that relates to mapping out their future, both in social and professional directions. In the US we do a horrible job at this with the ‘common core’ setup. The education system itself needs to be dismantled and rethought to better serve the people.
@@camerakid76 The voucher system idea has been around a long time but it disempowers the powerful and so is unacceptable.
In the late 90s, I was one 3 girls who took plumbing and welding. We lived in a SMALL town and dint have a lot of money but they were still able to teach us basic welding, plumbing, woodshop, etc. The FFA sponsored them and every semester WE and other small high schools would weld the metal enclosures that held the showcase animals for rodeos, 4H, FFA shows etc.. many of the kids were from farming households. I even learned basic maintenance of a car. As a 40 year old woman, half the mechanics I meet under the age of 30 are idiots. They are literally only trained in 1 part of the car and that was it. They dont force them to learn about the WHOLE car, its, parts, repair, and how to build your own parts. I worked in many luxury car dealerships and the service department was made up of guys very unique. Half were farming dudes and the other half were from Europe. They were an eclectic bunch because some were engineers and others were mechanics who knew every spec of a car.
I was never very practical growing up, built the odd Billy cart is all. Then as an adult I found myself 750km from home with no money, 4 kids in the car and had to be home that night. Car had a cracked fuel filter from some road debris, went into local big box, opened and read the cars service manual, bought the bits and a couple of discount bin tools and out to the car park. Memorised the instructions in store followed steps, replaced filter and drove home. That shop does not sell that stuff anymore but from that day I fixed everything myself car, washing machines, you name it and before we had internet. The answer is online today yet people have no self reliance.
What Dr Grandin is saying is so true! Children are not allowed to ‘make a mess’ , society is going in reverse where children are seen and not heard, placed in front of screens for amusement, told what to do and when to do it.
Critical thinking is being erased from the younger generation in large swathes.
Children who do not question what they are told are at risk from predators and those wishing to control them. Children have to be allowed to grow at their own pace and ‘nurtured’ by loving carers and not given over to the establishment!
Glad you interviewed Temple Grandin. Her life experience is unique and her POV is one to consider. I've read a few of her books, especially "Thinking in Pictures". It attracted me because I think in pictures and she was the first person I had heard of that also did.
I'm 76. Raised on an old fashioned dairy farm for 18 years then, apparently, went to school and got educated. The years on that farm fixing and problem solving always has been my real education. Sure the bit of paper and being hired/contracted by the usual academically educated snobs/ know-it-alls usually in government got me jobs, but it was the farm kid-brain that got it done and too often saved their over-educated asses.
As I listen to this, two things come to mind. 1) "The world will always need ditch diggers." Let's go further than that. The world will always need those who can build and maintain things well. The world will always need those who know how to use their hands AND their heads. There are far too many who can't find the business end of a screwdriver with three tries. Self-sufficiency? There are those who don't even understand where their food comes from. "It comes from a supermarket." Where did the supermarket get it from? "They just have it." Which leads me to point 2...
Doing away with shop classes and shoving everyone in the direction of a uni only served to create a mountain of debt unnecessarily, which now they want everyone else to shoulder the burden of a highly questionable decision by the student in pursuit of, in many cases, a completely useless degree. Not everyone needs to go to uni, (don't even get me started on how they are factories dedicated to the wholesale destruction of ideas and lives). If you want the crumbling infrastructure to survive, then push people into the trades instead. There are plenty of jobs where, with the accumulation of experience and skill, the worker can make a ton of money versus the person with the degree.
I grew up poor, my dad couldn't change the oil in his car and couldn't change a light bulb, lucky for me, shop classes 70s and 80s, public schools taught me to cook, type, bike repair, auto repair, music, drafting, framing, wood shop, ROTC, write a check and balance a checking account, write computer code, sports. And Boy Scouts taught me leadership skills, survival skills, archery, shooting, knot tying, comradeship, civic training, speaking skills, acting skills, the list I can write a book about. Today's children have no skills coming out of school
Very nice clip here. Why I like Temple Grandin; she gets what should be obvious because she examines, thinks and comes to logical conclusions. The abstract and theoretical get too bogged down in equations and abstracts to really look at what's in front of them. They can be trained out of their tunnel vision. Teaching trades is tough for the reasons stated, plus the resistance of kids to do the work and listen to these experts.As a boomer, my little town HS had a trades building that we could choose if we didn't want to prep for college. That was great for sharp kids high on the visual learning curve. These visual tests and others need to be done of all kids. In lower grades, it gives insight on how to teach all kids. In 9th grade, it could serve not to force them into a path, but give them options on what they might be happiest with.
As for the welding shop class at the community college not able to find a qualified teachers, I would wager it's mostly because a welder qualified enough to teach is going to be paid very well, and the community college isn't offering market dictated wages commensurate with the skills a person would need.
I know guys who went from practicing trades to teaching them. They were happy to make the change even if the pay was not so hot. The hours were steady, the work way easier, vacations and benefits much better. A guy who is getting older and wants to take it easy would take the job even if it paid less. Such very experienced men can make excellent teachers. Not all, but some have the verbal skills and knack of working with newbies. The hitch is they have to go back to school and earn a teaching qualification. There should be some way to streamline this requirement and make it as easy as possible for those teachers who already have the life experience.
@@mrdanforth3744 Yet another time when I have to explain statistics to someone. The exception is not the rule. What you're saying is irrelevant.
@@tedlogan4867 What do statistics have to do with it? I was explaining that there are other factors involved than the rate of pay. I suspect based on my experience, that they could find experienced tradesmen willing to teach if it wasn't too difficult to qualify as a teacher. If they require a university degree that is obviously going to reduce the talent pool to almost zero.
@@mrdanforth3744 The people you're describing are statistically irrelevant in any conversation about this specific topic. Statistics have everything to do with accurately understanding broad issues. Pointing out the "I know a guy" reality, while not trivial, is pointing out the exception. It is not relevant, not useful in any way. There are always exceptions, but those exceptions are so rare as to be a non-factor.
@@tedlogan4867 Wow, this is a comment section. If you do not care for what he said, then just skip it. And, I will disagree, statistics are not everything in a conversation. Mr Danforth 374 made a very good point about why it may be hard to find teachers for shop type classes.
It's always been a shock to me how few people today have practical skills. I've met so many people that don't have tools and have never used them. They've never fixed anything and throw their stuff away when just 10 seconds and a Phillips screwdriver would make it usable again. Calling someone to come over and fix stuff isn't an option anymore as all the repair shops and handymen are saturated with work.
Get tools.
Learn how to use them.
I had the privilege of working with a senior mechanical engineer from Northwest Airlines. She gave congressional testimony on airline safety. Frequently she would give all the credit to the A/Ps. “I’d tell them to draw up what needs to happen and I’ll check the numbers… “ She trusted them completely.
What is an A/P?
@@richardswaby6339 - airframe and power plant. Aircraft mechanic.
Dear Dr. Peterson, I have only commented on occasion and must say once again to start, I greatly admire the work you do and the other voices like Dr. Grandin's, by whom I have been influenced for decades. On this video's topic and others within, I could not be more pleased that those of your caliber are considering them. My work is easy to find on the internet now and more importantly, those of many I mentor to various degrees. The main point is we must stop designing and building the infrastructure of this world the way we are collected as humans. It is grossly destructive with the only "real" primary aim being speed and profit...NOT!!!...best practice, ecological sustainability, and also keenly important and absent now in modern architecture...honest and easily facilitated survivability. Once again, blessings to you and your Daughter for the work you are both doing in raising consciousness to these issues in a pragmatic and logical fashion rather than the hyped and inflated fashion most in first world countries seem anchored to...
I'm a 29 year old man with a home, wife, child, and dog. I am one of those "Great Resignation" followers and could care less about 'maintaining the system' for at least the sake of the modernized world. Of course there are drawbacks to that type of thinking and unintended consequences.
I quit my job smack dab in the middle of Covid; June 2020. I was a truck driver making $70k a year; working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. In January of that year, we were asked to sign a form acknowledging that we would accept 8 days of unpaid vacation per year, instead of 13. Which was initially 20. We had 120 guys at the time and an average of 20 call-offs per day. I bought a home and then quit my job 6 months later.
I've since made a great living being a dad and working occasional gig/contract whenever I can find it. The wife also works part time in Healthcare. We are NOT struggling, despite the inflationary insanity.
K-12, High School, College, 45 years of work, and then retire and be happy (realistically depressed)? Is that really the meaning of life? To miss out on life with the promise that it will pay off in the last stage? I saw this trap the moment I entered the work-force at 18, but I decided to do the ropes from immense pressure I got from friends and family. I avoided the University trap and worked for FedEx, later Werner Ent; all to my parent's dismay. They were extremely disappointed to learn that I was making a lot of money, living in an apartment, and dating my (now wife).
They would have been more proud to have me gobble up 100K of debt and live at home until 40 being a loser. Which is want a substantial amount of Gen X parents do to their children. They live in a world of denial about the changing times and force their 1980s religion onto their kids and ruin their lives over it. The same thing has happened to my younger sister, who will be $130,000 deep in student debt over a Bachelor of Design, smh.
45+ years ago the feminists threw a fit, so home economics was dropped at my school.
CAD/CAM started taking over the metal shop. Robots started welding in factories. Programmable machine controllers began operating machines. Programming was more important. Programmable 3D additive printers have jumped from building engineering prototypes to the specialty shop, and factory floor. They are intruding on the construction industry by making homes from concrete.
Jobs started going abroad. Machine shops were only used for emergency, and specialty parts. Eventually, workers, machines, and materials were brought from abroad. This happened with China, and repairing the iconic Golden Gate Bridge. No Americans were allowed to work. Planned obsolescence, and pricing strategies make it cheaper to buy new than repair. The printer is cheaper than the ink, and the printer is made abroad.
We are at the point where programming is the last American occupation. There is fringe work for the liberal arts. Artificial Intelligence like ChatGPT-3 are writing programs, and creating art upon request. Within 20 years, most humans will be unemployable.
I recall a scene. A sewing machine, and an recently instructed illiterate teenage girl was set down before some tailors. The girl sewed a perfect seam in seconds. A tailor exclaimed he had apprenticed for two years in order to sew perfect stitching. Another replied, that he still takes hours. I know a programming company instantly put out of business by an electronic spreadsheet. Who knows how to repair a spreadsheet? Buy a new updated one.
Beyond how incredibly germane to the moment this conversation is, can we talk about the absolutely brilliant fashion repertoire these two have assembled?
I was trying to figure out what Peterson’s tie was trucked into. His pants or some kind of vest?
Can't help but notice how colorful these two are.
@@craigb3154 No lie it might be a cumberbund haha
@@timothycreamer8610 She dresses like my great grandma did. 'Merica.
You're right, I think if they both opened fashion companies they'd have extremely successful side business as they have some serious style going on!
I'm pushing both of my kids (son/daughter) to avoid college and the crazy amount of debt it comes with, and instead choose a trade to go into. College is just a joke now, especially because they are all more concerned with being woke than they are with actually teaching kids how to think critically. And I know very few people who are actually working in the field they have a degree in.
So true. 😢It makes me sad.
I repair HVAC and Refrigeration. Heavy load on my body back and knees. Can be stressful when the routing office puts 8 calls everyday on your route. You have to complete them to go home or reschedule the customer for 2 weeks later. The pay well $30 an hour.
I’m a professional mechanical engineer…a pretty good one, I might add. I spent much of my formative years before PC’s were available. I engaged (and continue to engage) in many sports and other activities which grounded me in the world of physical things. Tennis, baseball, football, swimming, skiing, cycling, camping, canoeing, sailing, scuba, flying airplanes…and several other things. I believe its these extracurricular activities I became proficient in that instilled many of my instincts for engineering and visualization. Youngsters today are rarely seen participating in these activities. Kids need to get better grounded in such physical pursuits. I suspect it might not be possible past a certain age. More school is not the answer to everything.
This woman is amazing! I've seen movies depicting her fight through college and then her fight in the cattle industry.
She is someone like Dr Peterson, lost among the others but just like cream, she has made it to the top of her industry
Dr. Grandin is an amazing person, a real national treasure.
I'm on the spectrum myself and have great respect for both of these people. I graduated from the community college in welding and got on the Dean's list, and currently work with my father doing woodworking/carpentry. I'm soon to have an interview for a union program that'll last for 5 years. I ought to read her book...
I had no idea what I wanted to do at 18 in 2009, but I knew going 60K plus in debt for a degree didn’t make any sense in the American system for a smart blue collar kid with no idea what he wanted to do. Spent 4 years in the Marine infantry learning life skills, spent another 7 years in various sales and operations roles learning how to hustle and navigate corporate politics. Decided in 2020 I wanted to become a tradesmen and eventually start my own business. Today I’m debt free, making enough money as an HVAC mechanic to bring my wife home, with a second baby on the way. There’s good money and spiritual satisfaction today in America for hvac mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc.
Jordan is masterclass.
This lady speaks with authority, and is, "No nonsense".
No hurty feelings.
"This is the problem". "This is how it is".
"Deal with it, and be quick about it"!
Bravo that lady, I just love your vigor and spirit. 👏👏👏👏👏
My daughter was an Agriculture teacher when she was told she wasn't "essential" and let go during that time when kids were told to stay home to "flatten the curve". They kept the football coach though.
Every time I listen this man talk with another smart person I feel like it is worthy of my time on social media stuff big time and both have great analysis amazing…
During covid I was told I was non essential. So I started digging ditches for a plumbing company. I was the lacky with a useless Masters degree from a university...I have nothing but respect for trademen/women. It's a different set of tools and skills that are real and don't exist in the stupid Matrix
Im an ex Army mechanic, went back and got my BEd and taught shop until my Army body caught up with me. As was said, their is a lack of respect/understanding of a trades career. Most teachers go through HS school, do well and go to university, maybe working a serving job. Shop was seen as a place for those who could not succeed academically rather then relating it as a multiplier, reinforcing math and English skills. I left when it became a dumping ground for all kids "succeeding" and having to justify kids failing who didn't give a crap. Something that isn't valued is devalued and our society is devaluing work ethic. Btw, im Canadian and the witchhunt that the Doctor Peterson is undergoing is saddening. Keep the faith Doc!!
These jobs were outsourced to 3rd world nations, the problem is industry is made unobtainable by board partners pumping industries for money under balling labor wages and not doing proper machine maint. or PMs all for the sake of short-term dollars to hike stock ticket prices, essentially, they are trying to overshoot the market cap for their industry and cutting corners, so it become unprofitable here in the US, and unpredictable, people expect this unobtainable incline in revenue and profits that in this reality never existed because the growth eventually bottoms out to a plane line, and they aren't satisfied with that. They even went as far in the industry to call machinists machine operators and tried relabeling it as unskilled labor in order to cut their costs....
So who the hell is going to work in those hell holes of the metal industry where processing metals is almost a certain lung cancer issue? I could go further I have worked in Aluminum and Steel industries, the danger to workers is insurmountable and paramount yet for some reason people think they can toy with the workers and their salaries, yet without these skills and workers it is outsourced overseas to places like China where deplorable conditions exist and slave/child slave labor.
At what point do you bottom out the industries and say hey, some people are getting paid 100+k salaries and they don't do anything(certainly tech industry work videos showed how these workers are pampered to hell, but so over educated and stupid to the point they cannot name oceans and continents) yet they guy/girl getting dirty dealing with measurements and tolerances that help build the world cannot make past 50k a year? At one point when does the stupidity stop and we actually take care of those that do the labor and learn a set of skills?
As a father with 2 grown children with Autism, this is awesome. I see our daughter in Dr. Temple Grandin. She's not being rude when she interrupts, she's is just getting ahead because she knows where it's headed. It makes me smile, people with Autism are awesome and super smart on subjects they love. She speaks with force because it most likely drives her nuts knowing what the problem is and it's not getting fixed. Our Daughter behaves the same way, no messing around, problem solution what the hell is everyone waiting for. hahaha. no filter just facts and raw honesty
We keep coddling illness and watch the decline
I was reminded of the movie "City of Ember". I work for a company that makes equipment for electricity. There is definitely a loss of industry knowledge over the past 30 years.
I love the way Temple corrects him when he starts blaming women for taking shop classes out of the school system. As a woman who worked in HR as a recruiter for many years, I completely agree with her about the real reason shop classes were removed. The most difficult jobs to fill are for skilled technical professions like welders, CNC machinists and electricians. They pay just as well as white collar positions that require a Bachelor's degree, and there really is a shortage of qualified applicants. I think the mindset is changing because many community colleges are now adding curriculum for manufacturing careers to help students get the specialized training to do these jobs. I wish Jordan wouldn't always go down the same road by oversimplifying causes and adding his biases to problems. He's very smart, but I think too many people listen to him and take his opinions at face value without considering additional contributing factors.
What she said reinforces what he said - there is no one to teach those classes, which is the effect. The cause is that shop classes were removed from the curriculum by matriarchal administrators
He raised a good point that she may have dismissed a bit too quickly. There have been a number of factors at work, and our cultural disregard for "masculine" domains is part of it. Fortunately, given the chance, women will "get" it and equal or exceed a lot of men with technical skills; however, core administrative decisions are made by bureaucratic structures where technical people - men and women - are ignored. Women make up more and more of those administrations and shape direction, preferring men who are less traditional.
There is plenty of blame to go around. When it comes to incompetence there is absolutely no sexual advantage. Incompetence = Equality achieved
There was bias against manual skills and trades but it was not because of women in academia. Both sexes are to blame. In this Grandin was right. You notice Peterson backed off right away when she corrected him. He was asking a legit question and listened to the answer.
@@walfredswanson I dare say they did away with Home Economics classes as fast as Carpenter Shop. It was bias against manual skills not a male/female thing and academics can be expected to be pro academic and anti practical skills regardless.
A problem we have, is no business or corporation wants to set up and run a journeyman program to train people. They expect people to already be trained. Not the way it used to be. College was for academics. You didn't need college for practical jobs like welding.
The high school I attended in Northern Ireland and then my son has now got a complete engineering section, complete with computerized lathes, drills, etc, as well as the older type, Both metalworking, Joiner's workshop, and a technical drawing workshop. It also has a Big Art and Drama dept, and still teaches Encomics. when my son was at school, he built a lamp, table, and a welsh dresser in joiners class, a twin-wheeled trailer, Petrol Go-kart and many other things in Metalwork drew up first in the tech drawing class, he learned to join copper metal, and weld steel. Though I miss the buns and cakes he used to come home with. As an adult, he can do most things.
I have always admired Temple. Her story is amazing. her way of thinking is beyond our understanding.
Always interested in what Temple Grandin has to say. I refer to a certain skillset as mechanical literacy, being a combination of genetically and practically acquired ability. I’m the only one left in my extended family with this. So many of those jobs are gone now anyway.
We've also created a healthcare system that nobody wants to maintain.( I love how she shuts him down there in the beginning. And she was right to do so)
I’m not so sure about that.. Pharma has such a grip on the Healthcare System because they can just put you on a regimen of pills or shots / consumables rather than a Wellness System than educates people on healthier choices- which exposes other problems with our government and food suppliers who lobby them. There shouldn’t be a Corn or Sugar Lobby in DC.
Should've been live;the Tele conference format lacks intimacy
Shop classes as traditionally offered became outmoded. Basic skills with basic tools no longer led to employment in the vast majority of cases. The kinds of machines like ban saws and lathes were old and many schools couldn't afford, the newer, far more high tech versions of industrial machinery. It wasn't an anti-male bias. It was the far more ubiquitous reason of cost and how useful the classes they could offer would actually be in the real world. The only US school districts that can afford the millions of dollars needed to acquire up to date machinery are the ones least likely to have students who are interested in those sorts of occupations. The millions need to be invested in school districts that are predominately lower income and working class districts where young men especially are interested in kinesthetic occupations where they can use their hands and logical, problem solving skills and math skills most readily. But those school districts have far less resources and our states do not help local school districts in relation to need. Nationally, state funds are predominately distributed on a solely per capita basis. This is not even considering how woefully underfunded most schools are locally and at the state level because they rely primarily on property taxes.
You have to move to China !
Yep, I worked with a bunch of teeneagers who'd literally never used a tape measure in 2012 in our towns volunteer centre for helping young people gain some basic skills.
I was surprised when they told me this for the first time, but it was only momentary, the dots just immidiately joined for me like, duh, of course there's going to be people who haven't used some of these things & so have no framework in their mind to come at understanding them.
And so I began trying to figure out what needed to be communicated, & how I might make sure they actually understand it, but more than that, I didn't want to make them feel stupid & receade from just saying what they didn't know.
Now, my collegue on the other hand, he didn't get that, At All.
For weeks he just wasn't getting it, once I noticed this as he overheard us talking about measuring & how it works, because it's never a perfect thing & I can't remember what he said, but it jsut wasn't from an understanding perspective.
And so I began properly paying attention to how he was working with people, & I couldn't believe I didn't notice how little information he put out.
And so over the next few weeks me & my collegue started talking more about all this stuff & what's going on in our minds & everyone elses.
I just can't help getting really Intensly curious about novel things once I notice them.
Unexpected things, my mind just latches on & goes & goes for a period & it slowly dies down over a week or 2 or 3, depends if anyone around me is also curious about the same thing, if someone else is really actually curious then I can keep it going with them because it's always leading somewhere new.
Seems to stagnate really easily when it's just my own mind.
He started talking more after that with students, & myself I might add, because he was always quite short spoken before, like the thing he was asaying was intrinsically obvious to everyone else as well.
I've never been like that actually.
I remember all through Primary school just observing everyone else, watching them just fumble to notice what I thought was just obvious.
Btw, the reason I kept quiet was because I'd tried communcating these things in the first couple of years & it just resulted in bullying, just a complete dumb response with no hope of changing their mind.
God what a difference highschool was, teachers who actually had brains, like half the P school teachers jsut seemed like nothing was going on in their heads once I got a taste of High schools
Still, the whole schooling system was a complete nightmare for me, I don't have good working memory for information.
I've always been 3D spacial.
I used to describe how I could feel how my mum was folding cloths & towels & such after the washing & how I could see exactly how unstable the thing she was building was.
She never got it, she always acted like I was a little idiot actually for some reason, I also never got that.
I know the bolts on my car, I can see into the structure of the metals, how the corrosion might affect the structual integrity as it looses material.
But add information into that, & I really, Really struggle, it just grinds to a halt.
And yet, for some reason, I liked math, which I never got Any chance to get good at, my mum did nothing with me my entire schooling.
And, I'm not joking when I wsay this.
The school kept me in the bottom group, never letting me try Any new math, Never, nto once.
It was so mind numbingly boring, I just could not get my mind to engage with it, 7 years doing the exact same sums.
And they just took my dissengagement from it as evidence I was thick AF.......
I mean you couldn't make this shit up.
It's Actual insanity......
How our school systems have bnasically wrecked countless thousands of childrens lives.
They take their own inability to manage different types of minds as evidence of those minds intrinsic stupidity.
It's bonkers beyond beliefe, the ignorant arrogance of it all.
The thing is, I knew in my mind I wasn't thick, so many things were so obvious to me before they happened, knowing the patterns of peoples movements, evading bullies on leaving school, god they were so predictable, it was just completely obvious to me, the paths home, well, they were finite.
3D spacial stuff & how things will move through it, piece of piss too me even as a preteen.
Did school ever bother to test that.
Well actually, funnily enough, it would've if they'd just fking let me try all the math instead of 7 god damned years of adding subtracting & dividing the dumbest numbers......
Back around 1978-82 I took two years of vocational bricklaying classes while in high school. Once we mastered the basic skills we built a house every school year. I also took drafting/mechanical drawing, and woodworking classes in high school. It helped me in life and in getting thru school. I was easily distracted and bored in school, however I have a high gpa in college level classes.