Hey Martha, thanks for the question. I may very well have not mentioned how often to do it. Very generally speaking, however, you can usually get around 3-5 ski sessions in after a hot wax treatment. But the frequency of waxing ultimately depends on how often you run your skis and the conditions of the snow in which you ski. If the bases look ashen or whitish, they need to be waxed. If they look satiny black, they're probably good to go. Some people will wax every time to find the ideal wax for the conditions, but I seldom do. Mostly I will brush the skis with a bronze brush after or before a session and that is fine for a few sessions (in between full hot wax treatments). I've answered this question in the comments section of the last video in this series, too, so read that one as well for some more thoughts on the topic. Thanks! ruclips.net/video/WTkaWaE0Cys/видео.html
That's awesome! I love it 👍 One of the reasons I try to stay on top of answering everyone's questions to the best of my abilities, because I know someone else out there has the same question 🤗
Awesome! Glad I could be of service 👍 And I think my roommate's little kitty makes a special appearance in the garage in one of my other waxing videos 😁
Thank you for this fine video. Here in Ontario we get a lot of skiing near freezing. I now hot wax my back country skis with hard glide wax, even the fish scales. Yes I lose a bit of grip but the glide is fantastic.
Hey Don, thanks so much for the nice feedback! We're pretty similar here in Tahoe where a lot of our snow is right at freezing (and pretty sticky as a result). I don't hot wax the scales, but I'm hearing about more people who do it. And it's not a bad idea when you have good technique and want more glide. I may actually give it a try one of these days! Again, thanks for tuning in and for contributing to the conversation :)
Thanks, Yavor! I appreciate your kind words. I'd like to say it was all by design, but mostly it's because I find it challenging to clearly and coherently narrate while doing the actual tasks (i.e. I can only do one thing at a time! haha). But it probably will be my standard approach to creating more videos as it does allow me to be more thorough in my presentation of information. Thanks again!
Jared, good video for a interemediate class xc ski . I got a pair of dirt cheap !!! FISCHER waxless junior skate skis and: 1 base is not straight concave near tip and back of the ski , 2. base is so soft that scraper cuts into the base ( tip and back od the ski sides of the base are almost gone because I wanted to scrape it straight and they were 1mm rized on each side.. 3. hot iron burns base in low setting. I guess some of the waxless skis should not be waxed at all.
Thanks for watching, autokanada! Wow, sounds like you found a weird (abused/neglected?) pair of skis. At my work we have at least 100 junior (kids') skis (Fischer and Salomon) for rent and we hot wax them as often as we can. Metal scrapers can definitely gouge and scratch any ski's base if not used at proper angles (if that's what you were using to flatten the ski). I've never had a plastic scraper scratch a base, however. And I'm not sure why the waxing-specific iron would burn the base of the ski. Like I said, we hot wax our junior skis (without issue) just like we hot wax the regular adult rental skis. Anyway, sorry to hear you've had such a mess of a time preparing the skis. But I'm glad you didn't spend much money on them!
Thanks for comment. Inthink on low end skis base wrapps and it Is not perfectly flat. Had this issue on 2 pairs of my skis purchased online :) where you cannot check quality before purchase.
Jared -can you post something on the last portion where you lay down the glide wax [deodorant stick] on the scales / grip zone -no bronze over that ? Thanks mate
Hey Nick! Yeah, I apply easy glide wax (paste, liquid, spray) to the grip zone to ensure that they don't collect snow. I don't actually hot wax the grip zone, so if it's left untreated for multiple ski sessions snow has a tendency to clump and stick to the scales. I don't bother to brush off that easy wax from the grip zone just because it's most likely to come off during use. I do brush over the scale pattern, however, when cleaning the base before applying new wax, as well as when brushing off new wax (after applying hot wax and scraping). But the skis in which I was using for this 10-minute xc ski wax demo have a different material for the grip zone, so it doesn't hold fresh wax quite as good as a traditional track ski with scale-based grip zone. A lot of track skis use the same type of base material for the entire base (grip and glide zones), which is why I usually don't feel the need to apply additional easy wax to those grip zones. I still do as necessary, but the hot waxing and brushing over the whole scale grip zone usually does the job. But for the backcountry xc skis I was waxing in this video, again, their grip zones were made of a different material than the glide zones. So that's one reason I rubbed on that easy wax. I do have a separate video that I produced years ago specifically about using easy wax in the grip zone. Have a look when you get time (ruclips.net/video/YiPtXTCPGc4/видео.html ). And let me know if you have additional questions. Hopefully what I wrote wasn't too confusing or redundant :) As always, thanks so much for tuning in and reaching out!
Thanks for all of your helpful videos, Jared! Waiting for my first set of waxless cross country skis to arrive, and I've learned a lot from your channel about how to maintain them once I have them. The only remaining question I have is whether there's any need to wax my new skis before I use them for the first time, or whether they would come waxed well enough to use a few times before the first wax. Thanks in advance!
Hey Khalid, Thanks so much for the kind words! Glad I could be of service :) For the most part, you can just go ski on your new skis without doing any extra waxing to them. I believe that most skis ship with a light factory wax, so you can get a couple of sessions in before doing your own waxing to them. I wouldn't wait too long, however, to start waxing your skis. I find that if I wax new skis often early in their life, they seem to just run faster for the duration of their life. On the other hand, I've seen skis that get run for a long time before their owners have them waxed, and then it's like trying to play catch-up. That's been my experience, anyway. No matter what, though, just make sure you get out and ski! Take care, and let me know if you have any other questions :)
@@JaredManninen Hi again Jared - quick waxing follow up question. The skis I got (Salomon Snowscape 7) have an extruded base, and the sales person at the store where I got them mentioned that it can be harder to hot wax extruded bases than sintered bases, because the wax doesn’t penetrate as easily (and sometimes this means people spend more time with the iron on the base, which can damage the ski). So he said a liquid glide wax could be a better option, though in the end he said I should try hot waxing since I already have all the necessary equipment from waxing my snowboard (and just got a groove scraper). Just wondering if you have any thoughts on or experience with this, and if so what you think about hot wax vs liquid wax for extruded bases. Thanks!
Hey Khalid, I tend to agree with the shop guy to go ahead and use your waxing gear. Extruded bases don't hold nearly as much wax as sintered, but they can still benefit from waxing. It just doesn't last nearly as long. Quick glide wax is fine, too. But I'd think that it would come off even quicker than the hot wax. Brushing your bases regularly with a bronze brush will always help keep them clean, so definitely do that too. Anyway, you're gonna have a great time with them. I look forward to hearing about your adventures 🤗
Hey sojournerabroad, thanks for the comment! Yeah, when snow clumps and collects in the grip zone (scale pattern) of a classic ski it's definitely no fun. I find that this occurs more often in fresh snow (particularly when it's still falling while I'm skiing) and the bases of the xc skis are dry. The snow that clumps most is the kind that makes for great snowballs and snowmen. Essentially you want to treat those scales on your skis with a light layer of liquid or paste wax to prevent snow from sticking to the grip zone. I've even resorted to applying a quick burst of spray-on cooking oil once or twice, if you can believe that. People often neglect the scale patterns of their waxless skis because the scales replace the need for grip wax. But the scales are often made of the same exact base material as the glide areas of the ski base and, therefore, also need to be treated slightly to prevent them from becoming dry and oxidized. Even brushing the scale pattern with a brush you're using for a hot wax application will be better than nothing due to it containing some of the residue wax (that can then be transferred to the scales). Hope that helps. And, here's another video I created talking a little more in depth about treating the scale patterns of waxless cross-country skis. ruclips.net/video/YiPtXTCPGc4/видео.html
This video answered the questions I posted. No need to respond to last post except list of materials and Do I have to use a special ski iron. Old clothes iron set to appropriate heat okay?
Hey Monica! Thanks so much for the comments. Although, I don't see any of your previous ones so I'll just answer your question regarding types of irons. Definitely use an iron specifically designed for waxing skis. The reason being is that they are designed to heat up to specific temperatures (i.e. not just warm, warmer, or hot). The importance of being able to reach specific temperatures is because all of the block ski waxes have a specific temperature in which they melt (and not burn). Burning wax is no good to anyone, particularly the user applying the wax. I personally like the Wintersteiger iron (amzn.to/37Ntmcp) the best. The edges are rounded enough that you don't end up scraping off the wax as you're running the iron over the base of the ski (with the initial wax crayoned or dripped on). This is a minute detail of the waxing process, but one that's annoying to me when hot waxing skis (when I use other brands of wax irons). Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions!
I was wondering if you brush out the liquid glide wax you applied to the waxless fish scale kick zone or do you just leave the wax on the scales without brushing? I would imagine you’d use a nylon brush to brush out the scales, so you wouldn’t damage the scales?
Hey Randy! Thanks for watching, and for the question :) Honestly, I just leave that little bit of glide wax on the scale pattern without brushing. It's one less thing to do when waxing. Besides, the fish scales on waxless xc skis is usually so aggressive that you're not going to have to worry about that quick glide wax (i.e. liquid/paste/spray-on) preventing them from gripping the snow during push-off. And if you do apply a lot of wax to the scales, any excess will eventually just shear off during skiing. I also wouldn't worry about damaging the scales if you were to brush them at any point in the waxing process. I always go over them with a bronze brush when I'm cleaning the entire base. Again, those scales are pretty durable. In fact, I have some major gashes in some of the grip zones of my backcountry/off-track xc skis from unintentionally skiing over rocks and other natural debris (during low snow conditions) but none of that actually ever affects grip performance. That said, I have had to take a razor blade to bits sticking out once they've taken some damage, just so that the damaged pieces don't cause unnecessary drag when gliding. Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. And thanks again for tuning in!
@@JaredManninen Thanks for the information, Jared. I appreciate it. I really enjoy your channel and look forward to more videos. It looks like you have tons of snow again this year. I live in Superior, WI. We set an all time snowfall record last winter and this year (an El Nino year) we only have about 5” of snow! Classic tracks haven’t even been set yet. I only started skate skiing this week. Classic skiing is on hold for now. We are about six weeks behind last year’s skiing season and there’s no snow storms in sight. It could be a VERY short winter at this point.
@@Randy_JohnsonHey Randy, you're welcome! Glad I can be of service :) Believe it or not, we've been having a less than stellar winter so far here in Tahoe. We do have snow, and I'm grateful for it. But it's been pretty thin coverage. We just had a major rainstorm the other night and when I went into the backcountry today, it was almost like skiing on glass there was so much ice. Yeesh. I was happy to get back safely after that adventure! haha. That's a bummer about your snow coverage, though. Not even deep enough to set classic tracks - damn! Hopefully things turn around soon. I think I'm mentally preparing for a shorter winter, as well. Crossing my fingers though! Thanks again for your support :)
@@JaredManninen You’re welcome. Yeah, the lack of snow is tough. I’m still trying to ski even with the lack of snow, but it’s not the best. And this past week, we’ve had extreme sub zero temperatures, too.
@@Randy_Johnson I've been making due with low snow, too. There's always something we can be working on :) I don't miss those sub-zero temps, though (being from the upper Midwest myself)!
Hey Valerie! At the end of the season, I basically apply "storage" wax to the tips and tails of my waxless xc skis. I'll often just use a block universal glide wax or a softer glide wax (not a cold-oriented hard wax). Clean the bases as much as possible with a bronze or steel brush, then hot wax onto the tips and tails that softer block wax. When the wax has cooled down, store your skis in a cool, dark place. Don't leave your skis in direct sunlight or a location that gets baked during the summer. Then at the beginning of the next xc ski season, I'll just scrape off the storage wax and go ski (even though the storage wax may or may not be temperature specific to the conditions). Occasionally, laziness gets the best of me and I neglect to scrape off the storage wax before using. But this is usually only with one pair of rock skis (not my whole quiver). Ultimately, though, leaving the storage wax on while skiing is not eco-friendly because the wax does end up scraping off into the environment. So, I don't recommend this as a regular practice.
Thanks! It is pretty stylish :) Honestly, though, I inherited the wax profile from a previous boss/job, and he had inherited it from someone else. So, I'm not actually sure exactly where it originated. I'll try to document its specs for you, but with the holidays coming up I probably won't get to it immediately. I'll get back to you in January, if that's cool.
Hey Sully, I'm so sorry for dropping the ball on sending you specs for the wooden wax profile that I used in the video. Someone else inquired about it too recently, so I thought I better finally do something about it. Anyway, I've posted a small photo gallery with detail shots of the profile and accompanying notes. Scroll to the bottom of the page (link below). As I looked at it closer, I did realize that it's actually pretty complex in areas, but I'm sure an industrious person could make the necessary modifications to the project in order to make it feasible for them to make. Again, sorry for not getting this to you earlier! tahoetrailguide.com/faqs-about-waxing-your-waxless-cross-country-skis/
Hi Jared Greetings from Saskatchewan Canada I am new at the cross country ski and I would like to know why didn't you wax the whole ski? Do we have to apply something in the middle of the ski or it's only at the tails of the skis? Thank you for letting me know. Have a good one n nice video
Thanks so much for watching, and I appreciate your question :) The reason I didn't apply block glide wax to the middle of the ski is because that's where the grip zone (scale pattern on those particular skis) is located. I do usually apply a paste/liquid/spray-on wax to that area, but I wouldn't ever actually apply hot wax (block glide wax). I would only use the hot wax on the tips and tails of my classic cross-country skis, as I've shown in the video. If you're interested in learning more about hot waxing your xc skis, watch my whole series about it as I describe in greater detail the process of waxing "waxless" cross-country skis. And in those videos I talk more about treating the grip zone. You could also check out the video I specifically made about treating the scale pattern of a waxless xc ski at the following link (ruclips.net/video/YiPtXTCPGc4/видео.html). Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions!
@@JaredManninen thank you very much. It is really helpful. I will do that tomorrow and will definitely watch all your videos talking about that. I guess it is by practicing waxing, brushing, scraping that we become better. I will let you know how it goes furthermore. I have bought the Nordic glide wax so I will use it for the tail and tip. Will follow your video to be sure that I do it correctly n will get a different wax for the middle ( fishscales ) like the one you have written. Have a good week
@@JaredManninen hello Jared Thanks for everything. I wanted my GF to participate during the process and she burnt my base ski at 150 by staying to long at one spot. Now I have some bubble in the base skis. Is there a way to repair it ? I've been searching on internet but haven't found anyone talking about it or solving the issue. Any ideas? Thank you Jared and I wish u a wonderful day
@@user-kx7wo6qc7d Sorry to hear about your ski base. That is a total bummer! The unfortunate thing is that I'm not aware of being able to repair this issue. Basically what happens is that by ironing at such a high temperature of 150 C (were you using Swix green hard glide wax for very cold conditions?) and letting the iron stay too long over one place, you melt the adhesive that keeps the base attached to the ski (a form of delamination, you could say). As far as I know, there's no way in which to fix this. This is why it's imperative when ironing on the wax to use the correct temperature to melt the wax and cover the base (with the wax) and then move on to the next area. All of that said, if there's no access point for water to penetrate the skis you could still technically use the skis but they won't work as well as if the base were intact. Yeah, that really is a bummer. Not sure what else I can say at this point, so let me know if you have any other questions.
Very instructional and also a bit intimidating! I'm expecting my first set of "wax less" skis any day now and know nothing of the subject of waxing. So here goes: 1) Are there products to do it witout the hot iron? 2) Can I do a touch up with the universal deostick on overnighters or is there some other product I can use If need be since temperatures may vary greatly between days?
Thanks for the feedback and questions, Jo! And congratulations on getting new skis :) 1) For the most part you could use one of the many universal liquid or paste glide waxes available on the market, such as Swix brand F4. These types of waxes are convenient because they don’t require a hot iron, scraping tool, or brushes to apply, but they’re good for one-time use applications at best. Easy on = easy off. They’re not really temperature specific, so it can be hit or miss as to whether or not they truly provide glide. Universal = good in most conditions, but not great at any one condition. However, it’s better to have this type of wax on your skis than nothing at all. And one of the benefits to a quick universal wax is that it at least decreases the amount of icing up you might experience in certain conditions such as during a storm that yields fresh but highly saturated snow, or late in the day during spring conditions when the snow turns to the consistency of sticky mashed potatoes. Lastly, you’ll decrease the effectiveness of the bases of your skis without fully waxing them consistently over the years. So, I do recommend eventually learning how to properly waxing them, hot iron and all, just so that you can get the most life out of those things. You could also modify the process I demonstrate in my 5-minute video by omitting the hot iron step and just rubbing on the hard wax and then brushing it out. Not as effective, but I do it when I only have a minute or two to prep my skis before going out. And I like to think that it lasts longer than a quick wax. I can't say definitively whether or not it actually does, but at least I can use a more temperature specific wax and, in theory, it's not going to come of as easily as the quicker stuff. ruclips.net/video/R-SYLFtpOts/видео.html 2) As far as ski touring/overnighters, I think the best you can do is to bring along one of those quick waxes. Even when I’m going for shorter day trips I bring a small tin of F4 paste wax. I used to bring the liquid style, but the container is bigger than what I want to carry and it has the potential to leak (because it’s liquid). If you do bring the liquid version, just be sure to put it in a sealable plastic bag. I also know people who carry with them a small chunk of traditional universal wax. Mostly they apply it when they’re experiencing ice and snow build-up on the bases of their skis, not necessarily to increase glide. Although they do technically experience increased glide since the snow and ice no longer sticks to their skis. With this said, you could bring a couple of different temperature rated glide waxes with you along with a small bronze brush and reapply as needed. However, now you're starting to get into bringing a full wax kit into the backcountry which seems a bit excessive. But depending on how far you're traveling, it may help in the long run. I encourage you to read of my introduction article about waxing for more thoughts as to why you would want to wax your waxless skis and how the bases are designed to function on waxless cross-country skis. tahoetrailguide.com/waxing-your-waxless-cross-country-skis-for-beginner-and-intermediate-cross-country-skiers-introduction/ Let me know if you have any other questions!
@@JaredManninen thank you so much for your input! I have just ordered some universal liquid wax to bring along on my trips but I think I will leave the hot waxing to a professional for now! Keeping the gear in good nick to make it last and perform well is key, so I will happily pay for the service before I head out on my weekly trips. But I will study the subject and follow your posts. You make it look sooo easy!
@@jodooxq Thanks, again. And the only reason I make it look easy is because I stopped obsessing over the process (like when I first started waxing - haha). It's a pretty straight forward deal once you get some practice. If you're lucky, you may have a xc ski resort nearby that features a public wax room. The resort I work at does, but I understand it's not the norm. Also, when paying for your skis to be waxed, I wouldn't ever bother having the wax tech use anything other than a standard CH wax - no fluoro (versus LF - low fluoro or HF - high fluoro). I won't get into it here, but both of those waxes (LF/HF) are expensive and unnecessary for recreational skiing. Lastly, when you get a chance, purchase yourself a small bronze brush to brush out your skis. This will help rid the bases of old oxidized fibers and debris such as dirt, pine tar, and old wax. This is probably one of the simplest and effective ways to maintain the bases of your skis in the long run. Good luck, and reach out if you ever have any other questions!
Swix F4 is ok in a pinch and for the scale patterns. However, I've seen some really negative effects (to the bases of the skis) after its exclusive and long-term use. One of the biggest problems that I see when people only use quick waxes is that they don't ever bother to brush the ski bases at all. Not so much after applying F4, but before. So, they just end up applying more quick wax on top of all the dirt and pine sap that's collected on the base of the skis. I also find that quick waxes don't last very long compared to hot waxing or even temperature specific spray waxes. Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions. And thanks for watching :)
I just picked up some Maxiglide xc quickwax from REI and I was wondering if I should be just putting that on or if I should be using a wax with an iron for like a base coat.
The quick type wax is fine for short-term use, but you'd be best served in the long run by incorporating hot wax treatments. I use the quick wax a couple of times in-between hot waxing them throughout the season, too, and it works in a pinch. But, brushing and using regular block wax on a routine basis seems to be the best practice for maintaining the bases of xc skis. Thanks for the question, and let me know if you have others :)
Hey Paul, I find it hard to believe that you were able to actually wear down the scales just with a brush. Any chance you could post a photo of the scale pattern somewhere so I could see what it looks like? If you did, indeed, wear that pattern down I'm not really sure how to restore it other than maybe going in with an exacto blade to define some of the edges of the scales(?). But depending on what type of skis you're running, maybe it's not the worst thing. Sometimes I find that the scale pattern on some of my off-track/backcountry xc skis is too aggressive and drags too much when I'm going downhill. So, less of a pattern will yield more glide. Again, if the scales are worn down, you could try regular grip/kick wax in the grip zone. I have known people to file/shave down the scales at the beginning and end of the grip zone (i.e. the grip zone was too long for their needs) to create more glide. So, people do alter those scales on occasion. This wouldn't be the first time in the history of waxless skis. Anyway, try to send me a link to a photo so I can better understand what the scale patterns currently look like and offer a more informed recommendation.
Thanks for watching, and the question! The reason you scrape and brush out the new wax is so that you can open up the "structure" of the base of the ski. If you just left the hot wax on the bottom, you are essentially filling in all of those little gaps between the base fibers. But keeping these tiny gaps open is essential to decreasing the amount of suction a ski experiences when gliding over snow. This is based on the "controlled friction" theory of gliding over snow. It's a deep rabbit hole that you may or may not want to dive into. I try to keep it relatively straightforward in my videos, but this one is a more in-depth look at scraping off that new wax (ruclips.net/video/_WWF9FWGfhY/видео.html) and this one is about brushing the bases after scraping off the new wax (ruclips.net/video/wdeQ-stUY_c/видео.html). Again, thanks for watching and for the question. Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification.
@@JaredManninen Thanks for the quick reply! Just confirming, I'm using Swix "Glide Wax", the liquid kind you rub on (looks like a roll-on type) for my "waxless" skis. For some reason, I only remember using the hard brush before using the glide wax. So your information still applies to this kind of glide wax? Use the hard brush before and after?
@@stareeagle No prob! If you're just using a quick liquid kind, you don't really need to brush it off afterwards. Maybe a really soft polish brush if you wanted, but not necessary. I thought you were hot waxing with block wax and a wax iron. That's when you really need to scrape and brush (after applying the hot wax). I do recommend brushing the skis to clean them out before putting the liquid wax on but, again, I don't find it necessary to do afterwards. Thanks for letting me know you were using the liquid glide wax. That clears things up for me :)
Yes, that was a great simple clarification. It's been a while since I had done this and had forgotten. Thank you for your great explanation and expertise, and sharing this video!
Hey Dave, at this point I honestly just buy my wax supplies from the cross country ski center at which I work. That said, Gear West out of Minnesota has everything you could ever need for waxing, and they're a fantastic xc ski shop. They have a really big online presence, too. I've shopped in-person at their store and online. Great customer service. Other than that, I don't really have any other solid suggestions for buying. But once you have the main tools, it's mostly just the wax that you'll have to find. I guess the bottom line is that if you can shop locally, do it. Otherwise, I'd recommend ordering from a dedicated xc ski shop (like Gear West) because they're few and far between and could definitely benefit from your business. Not sure if that's the answer you're looking for, but that's all I can offer. Good luck!
In this video I'm using a Swix brand groove scraper/all-purpose scraper. www.swixsport.com/Products/Wax-Tuning/Tuning-Equipment/Scrapers/Groove-and-all-purpose-scraper2 But you could also use a "pencil" style groove scraper as well. They're both inexpensive and get the job done.
@@JaredManninen yeah man it was very useful :) And since you seem to know a lot I hope you don't mind giving me your thoughts on something! So I have a can of silicone spray and was thinking that it might put some nice glide as a finish. What do you think? 😅
@@SvafneWell, it wouldn't be the worst thing you could do to your skis 😆But, realistically, I would probably only use it on the fishscaled grip zone (to keep snow from sticking to the scales). And, this is assuming your have waxless classic skis with a fish scale type pattern. I've even used PAM cooking spray in a pinch, but it definitely doesn't last long and is probably not an ideal long-term solution 😆 Long story short, if you were to invest in a silicone type spray, I'd recommend just going with the more specific spray wax that Swix and Toko produces. They both have a full line that's complementary to block wax. Here's a link to a video I've made about using that Swix spray wax ( ruclips.net/video/rMjQnLZkiWE/видео.html ) if you were interested. Hope that helps!
@@JaredManninen heh on a closer inspection the wax I've used from top to bottom on my skis is kick-wax >_< So I think I'm just gonna try the silicone, at this point I doubt it'll get worse lol. But I'm gonna order some real stuff!
@@Svafne Oh damn! That's a classic mistake 😆But before you spray that silicone over the top of everything, try warming up the kick wax with a hair dryer or heat gun (low). Be super gentle and patient and get the wax just warm enough so that you could wipe it off with some paper towel. I'd do that before anything else. You could use a base cleaner, and you probably should, but base cleaner is often considered a last resort type of thing because it's really aggressive. So just slowly and gently heat up that base and try to wipe that kick wax off. Fortunately, it'll all come off eventually if you ski enough 🙃
I suspect that just about any type of wax may be better than nothing, but I'd stick to more typical ski wax as it's designed for the specific purpose. That said, I have a friend who used to carry with him a small candle when backcountry xc skiing to rub on his skis in lieu of a skiing type of quick wax. And, I've actually used PAM cooking oil/spray in a pinch. But, generally, I recommend just sticking to ski wax :)
After watching this, I'm wondering if the "waxes ski" is just a myth. If the temperature goes from 40 to 10 degrees overnight, do you have to start all over with a harder wax? If you just went with the F4 method, how much performance would you lose?
Hey Craig! The idea of waxless xc skis was part innovation/part marketing scheme. Eliminating 50% of the waxing considerations (kick wax) definitely simplifies things for the average person. But for some reason the idea of having to still apply glide wax to the tips and tails was lost in translation. And, also, you do need to apply some type of thin layer of glide wax to the grip zone to prevent snow from sticking to the scales. So, to your point, the idea of a waxless ski is at least part myth. As far as waxing for specific temperature conditions, anticipation of when you'll use the skis (and waxing for those conditions) is the best defense for having to re-wax. But if it were me, and I was only going out for fun for an hour or two (in your described situation of 40-10 degrees), I probably wouldn't bother. That said, I often wax my skis slightly colder by using at least a little hard glide wax in combination with a warmer temperature rated wax (i.e. I'll cold crayon on a thin layer of hard wax and then hot iron drip warmer wax over it). Two temperature rated waxes combined won't be perfect for any one condition, but will give you a pretty wide range of use. In the Sierra Nevada, where I live, we do have wide fluctuations in temperatures, especially in the spring months. So, I could easily find myself xc skiing in 20 degrees (F) during a morning session, and then a 45 degree (F) environment by late afternoon of the same day. Even in spring, when I "cheat" by adding some of that slightly hard wax, I do it mostly because something is better than nothing and a hard wax will be a little more durable (i.e. it won't scrape off in 10 minutes under variable spring conditions). I use F4 on occasion, but I find it's barely good for a single use. During the heart of winter, I'll rub on a thin layer of it over the scale pattern so that snow won't cling to the grip zone. But mostly for the regular season I hot wax my xc skis. I find that I use F4 the most during spring conditions. And this is driven by my laziness more than anything. Spring skiing conditions in the Sierra Nevada conspire to strip off any wax from the ski base within 10 minutes of use. Basically it's ice in the morning, slush in the afternoon, and natural debris all over the trails. That means I have to wax nearly everyday (because I'm skiing just about everyday during spring ). So I'll often just use some of the paste F4 as if I were traditionally hot waxing my skis (brush the skis clean, apply the paste wax, let it set a few minutes, and then brush out the paste wax). Hope that helps, Craig. Let me know if you have any other questions :)
😂 😂 I don't even know what that question means. When you say "regular" skis do you mean waxable classic cross-country skis or the entirely different discipline of alpine skiing? Because the vast majority of beginner and intermediate cross-country skiers that I make these videos for own waxless xc skis (scales or skins for the grip zone).
I may have missed if you mentioned, but if not, how often should I wax my waxless cc skis?
Hey Martha, thanks for the question. I may very well have not mentioned how often to do it. Very generally speaking, however, you can usually get around 3-5 ski sessions in after a hot wax treatment.
But the frequency of waxing ultimately depends on how often you run your skis and the conditions of the snow in which you ski. If the bases look ashen or whitish, they need to be waxed. If they look satiny black, they're probably good to go. Some people will wax every time to find the ideal wax for the conditions, but I seldom do. Mostly I will brush the skis with a bronze brush after or before a session and that is fine for a few sessions (in between full hot wax treatments).
I've answered this question in the comments section of the last video in this series, too, so read that one as well for some more thoughts on the topic. Thanks!
ruclips.net/video/WTkaWaE0Cys/видео.html
I be learning just as much in the comment section as I did from the video!
That's awesome! I love it 👍 One of the reasons I try to stay on top of answering everyone's questions to the best of my abilities, because I know someone else out there has the same question 🤗
Dude you just saved me so much time, thanks for the lesson. Only thing missing from the video is a super cute cow kitty bopping around the shop!
Awesome! Glad I could be of service 👍 And I think my roommate's little kitty makes a special appearance in the garage in one of my other waxing videos 😁
Thank you for this fine video. Here in Ontario we get a lot of skiing near freezing. I now hot wax my back country skis with hard glide wax, even the fish scales. Yes I lose a bit of grip but the glide is fantastic.
Hey Don, thanks so much for the nice feedback! We're pretty similar here in Tahoe where a lot of our snow is right at freezing (and pretty sticky as a result). I don't hot wax the scales, but I'm hearing about more people who do it. And it's not a bad idea when you have good technique and want more glide. I may actually give it a try one of these days!
Again, thanks for tuning in and for contributing to the conversation :)
Nice job providing good info and keeping it rolling.
Thanks so much! I'll do my best 👍
Thanks for the video Jared. I liked your approach of talking over your video and explaining why you do things. Good job!
Thanks, Yavor! I appreciate your kind words. I'd like to say it was all by design, but mostly it's because I find it challenging to clearly and coherently narrate while doing the actual tasks (i.e. I can only do one thing at a time! haha). But it probably will be my standard approach to creating more videos as it does allow me to be more thorough in my presentation of information. Thanks again!
Thank you, Jared. Really learned a lot from all you’re videos!
I really appreciate the kind words and feedback. Glad I could be of service :)
Jared, good video for a interemediate class xc ski . I got a pair of dirt cheap !!! FISCHER waxless junior skate skis and: 1 base is not straight concave near tip and back of the ski , 2. base is so soft that scraper cuts into the base ( tip and back od the ski sides of the base are almost gone because I wanted to scrape it straight and they were 1mm rized on each side.. 3. hot iron burns base in low setting. I guess some of the waxless skis should not be waxed at all.
Thanks for watching, autokanada!
Wow, sounds like you found a weird (abused/neglected?) pair of skis. At my work we have at least 100 junior (kids') skis (Fischer and Salomon) for rent and we hot wax them as often as we can. Metal scrapers can definitely gouge and scratch any ski's base if not used at proper angles (if that's what you were using to flatten the ski). I've never had a plastic scraper scratch a base, however. And I'm not sure why the waxing-specific iron would burn the base of the ski. Like I said, we hot wax our junior skis (without issue) just like we hot wax the regular adult rental skis.
Anyway, sorry to hear you've had such a mess of a time preparing the skis. But I'm glad you didn't spend much money on them!
Thanks for comment. Inthink on low end skis base wrapps and it
Is not perfectly flat. Had this issue on 2 pairs of my skis purchased online :) where you cannot check quality before purchase.
@@autokanada Definitely a mixed bag when ordering online. Good luck!
Jared -can you post something on the last portion where you lay down the glide wax [deodorant stick] on the scales / grip zone -no bronze over that ? Thanks mate
Hey Nick!
Yeah, I apply easy glide wax (paste, liquid, spray) to the grip zone to ensure that they don't collect snow. I don't actually hot wax the grip zone, so if it's left untreated for multiple ski sessions snow has a tendency to clump and stick to the scales. I don't bother to brush off that easy wax from the grip zone just because it's most likely to come off during use. I do brush over the scale pattern, however, when cleaning the base before applying new wax, as well as when brushing off new wax (after applying hot wax and scraping).
But the skis in which I was using for this 10-minute xc ski wax demo have a different material for the grip zone, so it doesn't hold fresh wax quite as good as a traditional track ski with scale-based grip zone. A lot of track skis use the same type of base material for the entire base (grip and glide zones), which is why I usually don't feel the need to apply additional easy wax to those grip zones. I still do as necessary, but the hot waxing and brushing over the whole scale grip zone usually does the job. But for the backcountry xc skis I was waxing in this video, again, their grip zones were made of a different material than the glide zones. So that's one reason I rubbed on that easy wax.
I do have a separate video that I produced years ago specifically about using easy wax in the grip zone. Have a look when you get time (ruclips.net/video/YiPtXTCPGc4/видео.html ). And let me know if you have additional questions. Hopefully what I wrote wasn't too confusing or redundant :)
As always, thanks so much for tuning in and reaching out!
Great helpful video. Thank you.
Thank you for the kind words, Joseph! I appreciate it :)
Thanks for all of your helpful videos, Jared! Waiting for my first set of waxless cross country skis to arrive, and I've learned a lot from your channel about how to maintain them once I have them. The only remaining question I have is whether there's any need to wax my new skis before I use them for the first time, or whether they would come waxed well enough to use a few times before the first wax. Thanks in advance!
Hey Khalid,
Thanks so much for the kind words! Glad I could be of service :)
For the most part, you can just go ski on your new skis without doing any extra waxing to them. I believe that most skis ship with a light factory wax, so you can get a couple of sessions in before doing your own waxing to them. I wouldn't wait too long, however, to start waxing your skis. I find that if I wax new skis often early in their life, they seem to just run faster for the duration of their life. On the other hand, I've seen skis that get run for a long time before their owners have them waxed, and then it's like trying to play catch-up. That's been my experience, anyway.
No matter what, though, just make sure you get out and ski!
Take care, and let me know if you have any other questions :)
@@JaredManninen Great, thanks for the quick reply! And definitely going to follow your advice and maintain them well from the get go.
@@khalidjanmohamed Sounds good! Have a great time with your new skis :)
@@JaredManninen Hi again Jared - quick waxing follow up question. The skis I got (Salomon Snowscape 7) have an extruded base, and the sales person at the store where I got them mentioned that it can be harder to hot wax extruded bases than sintered bases, because the wax doesn’t penetrate as easily (and sometimes this means people spend more time with the iron on the base, which can damage the ski). So he said a liquid glide wax could be a better option, though in the end he said I should try hot waxing since I already have all the necessary equipment from waxing my snowboard (and just got a groove scraper). Just wondering if you have any thoughts on or experience with this, and if so what you think about hot wax vs liquid wax for extruded bases. Thanks!
Hey Khalid, I tend to agree with the shop guy to go ahead and use your waxing gear. Extruded bases don't hold nearly as much wax as sintered, but they can still benefit from waxing. It just doesn't last nearly as long. Quick glide wax is fine, too. But I'd think that it would come off even quicker than the hot wax. Brushing your bases regularly with a bronze brush will always help keep them clean, so definitely do that too. Anyway, you're gonna have a great time with them. I look forward to hearing about your adventures 🤗
Thanks for the video. Could you comment more on "clumping" - I am having a huge issue with this under foot. Maddening!
Hey sojournerabroad, thanks for the comment!
Yeah, when snow clumps and collects in the grip zone (scale pattern) of a classic ski it's definitely no fun. I find that this occurs more often in fresh snow (particularly when it's still falling while I'm skiing) and the bases of the xc skis are dry. The snow that clumps most is the kind that makes for great snowballs and snowmen.
Essentially you want to treat those scales on your skis with a light layer of liquid or paste wax to prevent snow from sticking to the grip zone. I've even resorted to applying a quick burst of spray-on cooking oil once or twice, if you can believe that. People often neglect the scale patterns of their waxless skis because the scales replace the need for grip wax. But the scales are often made of the same exact base material as the glide areas of the ski base and, therefore, also need to be treated slightly to prevent them from becoming dry and oxidized. Even brushing the scale pattern with a brush you're using for a hot wax application will be better than nothing due to it containing some of the residue wax (that can then be transferred to the scales).
Hope that helps. And, here's another video I created talking a little more in depth about treating the scale patterns of waxless cross-country skis.
ruclips.net/video/YiPtXTCPGc4/видео.html
@@JaredManninen So helpful! Great linked video. Old skis now I get it. Thanks!
@@sojournerabroad You're welcome! Glad I could be of service :)
This video answered the questions I posted. No need to respond to last post except list of materials and Do I have to use a special ski iron. Old clothes iron set to appropriate heat okay?
Hey Monica!
Thanks so much for the comments. Although, I don't see any of your previous ones so I'll just answer your question regarding types of irons. Definitely use an iron specifically designed for waxing skis. The reason being is that they are designed to heat up to specific temperatures (i.e. not just warm, warmer, or hot). The importance of being able to reach specific temperatures is because all of the block ski waxes have a specific temperature in which they melt (and not burn). Burning wax is no good to anyone, particularly the user applying the wax.
I personally like the Wintersteiger iron (amzn.to/37Ntmcp) the best. The edges are rounded enough that you don't end up scraping off the wax as you're running the iron over the base of the ski (with the initial wax crayoned or dripped on). This is a minute detail of the waxing process, but one that's annoying to me when hot waxing skis (when I use other brands of wax irons).
Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions!
I was wondering if you brush out the liquid glide wax you applied to the waxless fish scale kick zone or do you just leave the wax on the scales without brushing? I would imagine you’d use a nylon brush to brush out the scales, so you wouldn’t damage the scales?
Hey Randy!
Thanks for watching, and for the question :) Honestly, I just leave that little bit of glide wax on the scale pattern without brushing. It's one less thing to do when waxing. Besides, the fish scales on waxless xc skis is usually so aggressive that you're not going to have to worry about that quick glide wax (i.e. liquid/paste/spray-on) preventing them from gripping the snow during push-off. And if you do apply a lot of wax to the scales, any excess will eventually just shear off during skiing.
I also wouldn't worry about damaging the scales if you were to brush them at any point in the waxing process. I always go over them with a bronze brush when I'm cleaning the entire base. Again, those scales are pretty durable. In fact, I have some major gashes in some of the grip zones of my backcountry/off-track xc skis from unintentionally skiing over rocks and other natural debris (during low snow conditions) but none of that actually ever affects grip performance. That said, I have had to take a razor blade to bits sticking out once they've taken some damage, just so that the damaged pieces don't cause unnecessary drag when gliding.
Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. And thanks again for tuning in!
@@JaredManninen Thanks for the information, Jared. I appreciate it. I really enjoy your channel and look forward to more videos. It looks like you have tons of snow again this year. I live in Superior, WI. We set an all time snowfall record last winter and this year (an El Nino year) we only have about 5” of snow! Classic tracks haven’t even been set yet. I only started skate skiing this week. Classic skiing is on hold for now. We are about six weeks behind last year’s skiing season and there’s no snow storms in sight. It could be a VERY short winter at this point.
@@Randy_JohnsonHey Randy, you're welcome! Glad I can be of service :)
Believe it or not, we've been having a less than stellar winter so far here in Tahoe. We do have snow, and I'm grateful for it. But it's been pretty thin coverage. We just had a major rainstorm the other night and when I went into the backcountry today, it was almost like skiing on glass there was so much ice. Yeesh. I was happy to get back safely after that adventure! haha.
That's a bummer about your snow coverage, though. Not even deep enough to set classic tracks - damn! Hopefully things turn around soon. I think I'm mentally preparing for a shorter winter, as well. Crossing my fingers though!
Thanks again for your support :)
@@JaredManninen You’re welcome. Yeah, the lack of snow is tough. I’m still trying to ski even with the lack of snow, but it’s not the best. And this past week, we’ve had extreme sub zero temperatures, too.
@@Randy_Johnson I've been making due with low snow, too. There's always something we can be working on :) I don't miss those sub-zero temps, though (being from the upper Midwest myself)!
Good video. Thanks!
Thank you for the kind words. Glad I could be of service :)
Do you have video for end of season treatment? Is the wax removed before you take the skis out again, or just let the snow do the work of that?
Hey Valerie!
At the end of the season, I basically apply "storage" wax to the tips and tails of my waxless xc skis. I'll often just use a block universal glide wax or a softer glide wax (not a cold-oriented hard wax). Clean the bases as much as possible with a bronze or steel brush, then hot wax onto the tips and tails that softer block wax. When the wax has cooled down, store your skis in a cool, dark place. Don't leave your skis in direct sunlight or a location that gets baked during the summer.
Then at the beginning of the next xc ski season, I'll just scrape off the storage wax and go ski (even though the storage wax may or may not be temperature specific to the conditions). Occasionally, laziness gets the best of me and I neglect to scrape off the storage wax before using. But this is usually only with one pair of rock skis (not my whole quiver). Ultimately, though, leaving the storage wax on while skiing is not eco-friendly because the wax does end up scraping off into the environment. So, I don't recommend this as a regular practice.
That's a nice homemade jig for holding the ski - can you provide specs or video on making one?
Thanks! It is pretty stylish :) Honestly, though, I inherited the wax profile from a previous boss/job, and he had inherited it from someone else. So, I'm not actually sure exactly where it originated. I'll try to document its specs for you, but with the holidays coming up I probably won't get to it immediately. I'll get back to you in January, if that's cool.
@@JaredManninen January would be great, happy holidays!
@@HereNow-r3f Happy holidays to you, too :)
Hey Sully, I'm so sorry for dropping the ball on sending you specs for the wooden wax profile that I used in the video. Someone else inquired about it too recently, so I thought I better finally do something about it. Anyway, I've posted a small photo gallery with detail shots of the profile and accompanying notes. Scroll to the bottom of the page (link below). As I looked at it closer, I did realize that it's actually pretty complex in areas, but I'm sure an industrious person could make the necessary modifications to the project in order to make it feasible for them to make. Again, sorry for not getting this to you earlier!
tahoetrailguide.com/faqs-about-waxing-your-waxless-cross-country-skis/
Thanks@@JaredManninen! Just in time for the new ski season - have a great one!
Hi Jared
Greetings from Saskatchewan Canada
I am new at the cross country ski and I would like to know why didn't you wax the whole ski?
Do we have to apply something in the middle of the ski or it's only at the tails of the skis?
Thank you for letting me know.
Have a good one n nice video
Thanks so much for watching, and I appreciate your question :)
The reason I didn't apply block glide wax to the middle of the ski is because that's where the grip zone (scale pattern on those particular skis) is located. I do usually apply a paste/liquid/spray-on wax to that area, but I wouldn't ever actually apply hot wax (block glide wax). I would only use the hot wax on the tips and tails of my classic cross-country skis, as I've shown in the video.
If you're interested in learning more about hot waxing your xc skis, watch my whole series about it as I describe in greater detail the process of waxing "waxless" cross-country skis. And in those videos I talk more about treating the grip zone. You could also check out the video I specifically made about treating the scale pattern of a waxless xc ski at the following link (ruclips.net/video/YiPtXTCPGc4/видео.html).
Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions!
@@JaredManninen thank you very much.
It is really helpful. I will do that tomorrow and will definitely watch all your videos talking about that.
I guess it is by practicing waxing, brushing, scraping that we become better.
I will let you know how it goes furthermore.
I have bought the Nordic glide wax so I will use it for the tail and tip.
Will follow your video to be sure that I do it correctly n will get a different wax for the middle ( fishscales ) like the one you have written.
Have a good week
@@user-kx7wo6qc7d Thanks so much again for the kind words. Glad I could be of service :)
@@JaredManninen hello Jared
Thanks for everything.
I wanted my GF to participate during the process and she burnt my base ski at 150 by staying to long at one spot.
Now I have some bubble in the base skis.
Is there a way to repair it ?
I've been searching on internet but haven't found anyone talking about it or solving the issue.
Any ideas?
Thank you Jared and I wish u a wonderful day
@@user-kx7wo6qc7d Sorry to hear about your ski base. That is a total bummer!
The unfortunate thing is that I'm not aware of being able to repair this issue. Basically what happens is that by ironing at such a high temperature of 150 C (were you using Swix green hard glide wax for very cold conditions?) and letting the iron stay too long over one place, you melt the adhesive that keeps the base attached to the ski (a form of delamination, you could say). As far as I know, there's no way in which to fix this. This is why it's imperative when ironing on the wax to use the correct temperature to melt the wax and cover the base (with the wax) and then move on to the next area.
All of that said, if there's no access point for water to penetrate the skis you could still technically use the skis but they won't work as well as if the base were intact.
Yeah, that really is a bummer. Not sure what else I can say at this point, so let me know if you have any other questions.
Very instructional and also a bit intimidating!
I'm expecting my first set of "wax less" skis any day now and know nothing of the subject of waxing. So here goes:
1) Are there products to do it witout the hot iron?
2) Can I do a touch up with the universal deostick on overnighters or is there some other product I can use If need be since temperatures may vary greatly between days?
Thanks for the feedback and questions, Jo! And congratulations on getting new skis :)
1) For the most part you could use one of the many universal liquid or paste glide waxes available on the market, such as Swix brand F4. These types of waxes are convenient because they don’t require a hot iron, scraping tool, or brushes to apply, but they’re good for one-time use applications at best. Easy on = easy off. They’re not really temperature specific, so it can be hit or miss as to whether or not they truly provide glide. Universal = good in most conditions, but not great at any one condition. However, it’s better to have this type of wax on your skis than nothing at all. And one of the benefits to a quick universal wax is that it at least decreases the amount of icing up you might experience in certain conditions such as during a storm that yields fresh but highly saturated snow, or late in the day during spring conditions when the snow turns to the consistency of sticky mashed potatoes. Lastly, you’ll decrease the effectiveness of the bases of your skis without fully waxing them consistently over the years. So, I do recommend eventually learning how to properly waxing them, hot iron and all, just so that you can get the most life out of those things.
You could also modify the process I demonstrate in my 5-minute video by omitting the hot iron step and just rubbing on the hard wax and then brushing it out. Not as effective, but I do it when I only have a minute or two to prep my skis before going out. And I like to think that it lasts longer than a quick wax. I can't say definitively whether or not it actually does, but at least I can use a more temperature specific wax and, in theory, it's not going to come of as easily as the quicker stuff.
ruclips.net/video/R-SYLFtpOts/видео.html
2) As far as ski touring/overnighters, I think the best you can do is to bring along one of those quick waxes. Even when I’m going for shorter day trips I bring a small tin of F4 paste wax. I used to bring the liquid style, but the container is bigger than what I want to carry and it has the potential to leak (because it’s liquid). If you do bring the liquid version, just be sure to put it in a sealable plastic bag. I also know people who carry with them a small chunk of traditional universal wax. Mostly they apply it when they’re experiencing ice and snow build-up on the bases of their skis, not necessarily to increase glide. Although they do technically experience increased glide since the snow and ice no longer sticks to their skis.
With this said, you could bring a couple of different temperature rated glide waxes with you along with a small bronze brush and reapply as needed. However, now you're starting to get into bringing a full wax kit into the backcountry which seems a bit excessive. But depending on how far you're traveling, it may help in the long run.
I encourage you to read of my introduction article about waxing for more thoughts as to why you would want to wax your waxless skis and how the bases are designed to function on waxless cross-country skis.
tahoetrailguide.com/waxing-your-waxless-cross-country-skis-for-beginner-and-intermediate-cross-country-skiers-introduction/
Let me know if you have any other questions!
@@JaredManninen thank you so much for your input!
I have just ordered some universal liquid wax to bring along on my trips but I think I will leave the hot waxing to a professional for now! Keeping the gear in good nick to make it last and perform well is key, so I will happily pay for the service before I head out on my weekly trips. But I will study the subject and follow your posts. You make it look sooo easy!
@@jodooxq Thanks, again. And the only reason I make it look easy is because I stopped obsessing over the process (like when I first started waxing - haha). It's a pretty straight forward deal once you get some practice. If you're lucky, you may have a xc ski resort nearby that features a public wax room. The resort I work at does, but I understand it's not the norm. Also, when paying for your skis to be waxed, I wouldn't ever bother having the wax tech use anything other than a standard CH wax - no fluoro (versus LF - low fluoro or HF - high fluoro). I won't get into it here, but both of those waxes (LF/HF) are expensive and unnecessary for recreational skiing. Lastly, when you get a chance, purchase yourself a small bronze brush to brush out your skis. This will help rid the bases of old oxidized fibers and debris such as dirt, pine tar, and old wax. This is probably one of the simplest and effective ways to maintain the bases of your skis in the long run. Good luck, and reach out if you ever have any other questions!
What about a wide range wax like Swix F4?
Swix F4 is ok in a pinch and for the scale patterns. However, I've seen some really negative effects (to the bases of the skis) after its exclusive and long-term use.
One of the biggest problems that I see when people only use quick waxes is that they don't ever bother to brush the ski bases at all. Not so much after applying F4, but before. So, they just end up applying more quick wax on top of all the dirt and pine sap that's collected on the base of the skis.
I also find that quick waxes don't last very long compared to hot waxing or even temperature specific spray waxes.
Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions. And thanks for watching :)
I just picked up some Maxiglide xc quickwax from REI and I was wondering if I should be just putting that on or if I should be using a wax with an iron for like a base coat.
The quick type wax is fine for short-term use, but you'd be best served in the long run by incorporating hot wax treatments. I use the quick wax a couple of times in-between hot waxing them throughout the season, too, and it works in a pinch. But, brushing and using regular block wax on a routine basis seems to be the best practice for maintaining the bases of xc skis.
Thanks for the question, and let me know if you have others :)
I think I was too aggressive with the brush on the fishscales and have lost most of the pattern. Any suggestions on how to restore?
Hey Paul,
I find it hard to believe that you were able to actually wear down the scales just with a brush. Any chance you could post a photo of the scale pattern somewhere so I could see what it looks like?
If you did, indeed, wear that pattern down I'm not really sure how to restore it other than maybe going in with an exacto blade to define some of the edges of the scales(?). But depending on what type of skis you're running, maybe it's not the worst thing. Sometimes I find that the scale pattern on some of my off-track/backcountry xc skis is too aggressive and drags too much when I'm going downhill. So, less of a pattern will yield more glide. Again, if the scales are worn down, you could try regular grip/kick wax in the grip zone.
I have known people to file/shave down the scales at the beginning and end of the grip zone (i.e. the grip zone was too long for their needs) to create more glide. So, people do alter those scales on occasion. This wouldn't be the first time in the history of waxless skis.
Anyway, try to send me a link to a photo so I can better understand what the scale patterns currently look like and offer a more informed recommendation.
Why do I need to scrape with a brush after applying the glide wax?
Thanks for watching, and the question!
The reason you scrape and brush out the new wax is so that you can open up the "structure" of the base of the ski. If you just left the hot wax on the bottom, you are essentially filling in all of those little gaps between the base fibers. But keeping these tiny gaps open is essential to decreasing the amount of suction a ski experiences when gliding over snow. This is based on the "controlled friction" theory of gliding over snow. It's a deep rabbit hole that you may or may not want to dive into.
I try to keep it relatively straightforward in my videos, but this one is a more in-depth look at scraping off that new wax (ruclips.net/video/_WWF9FWGfhY/видео.html) and this one is about brushing the bases after scraping off the new wax (ruclips.net/video/wdeQ-stUY_c/видео.html).
Again, thanks for watching and for the question. Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification.
@@JaredManninen Thanks for the quick reply! Just confirming, I'm using Swix "Glide Wax", the liquid kind you rub on (looks like a roll-on type) for my "waxless" skis. For some reason, I only remember using the hard brush before using the glide wax. So your information still applies to this kind of glide wax? Use the hard brush before and after?
@@stareeagle No prob! If you're just using a quick liquid kind, you don't really need to brush it off afterwards. Maybe a really soft polish brush if you wanted, but not necessary. I thought you were hot waxing with block wax and a wax iron. That's when you really need to scrape and brush (after applying the hot wax). I do recommend brushing the skis to clean them out before putting the liquid wax on but, again, I don't find it necessary to do afterwards.
Thanks for letting me know you were using the liquid glide wax. That clears things up for me :)
Yes, that was a great simple clarification. It's been a while since I had done this and had forgotten. Thank you for your great explanation and expertise, and sharing this video!
@@stareeagle Glad I could be of service :) And thanks for watching!
Hey Jared, Do you have any recommendations for a good economical source to buy what is needed to hot wax skis?
Hey Dave, at this point I honestly just buy my wax supplies from the cross country ski center at which I work. That said, Gear West out of Minnesota has everything you could ever need for waxing, and they're a fantastic xc ski shop. They have a really big online presence, too. I've shopped in-person at their store and online. Great customer service. Other than that, I don't really have any other solid suggestions for buying. But once you have the main tools, it's mostly just the wax that you'll have to find. I guess the bottom line is that if you can shop locally, do it. Otherwise, I'd recommend ordering from a dedicated xc ski shop (like Gear West) because they're few and far between and could definitely benefit from your business. Not sure if that's the answer you're looking for, but that's all I can offer. Good luck!
What are you using to clean the center groove?
In this video I'm using a Swix brand groove scraper/all-purpose scraper. www.swixsport.com/Products/Wax-Tuning/Tuning-Equipment/Scrapers/Groove-and-all-purpose-scraper2 But you could also use a "pencil" style groove scraper as well. They're both inexpensive and get the job done.
Thanks man!
You're welcome! And thank you for tuning in and the nice feedback 🤗
@@JaredManninen yeah man it was very useful :)
And since you seem to know a lot I hope you don't mind giving me your thoughts on something!
So I have a can of silicone spray and was thinking that it might put some nice glide as a finish.
What do you think? 😅
@@SvafneWell, it wouldn't be the worst thing you could do to your skis 😆But, realistically, I would probably only use it on the fishscaled grip zone (to keep snow from sticking to the scales). And, this is assuming your have waxless classic skis with a fish scale type pattern.
I've even used PAM cooking spray in a pinch, but it definitely doesn't last long and is probably not an ideal long-term solution 😆
Long story short, if you were to invest in a silicone type spray, I'd recommend just going with the more specific spray wax that Swix and Toko produces. They both have a full line that's complementary to block wax. Here's a link to a video I've made about using that Swix spray wax ( ruclips.net/video/rMjQnLZkiWE/видео.html ) if you were interested.
Hope that helps!
@@JaredManninen heh on a closer inspection the wax I've used from top to bottom on my skis is kick-wax >_<
So I think I'm just gonna try the silicone, at this point I doubt it'll get worse lol.
But I'm gonna order some real stuff!
@@Svafne Oh damn! That's a classic mistake 😆But before you spray that silicone over the top of everything, try warming up the kick wax with a hair dryer or heat gun (low). Be super gentle and patient and get the wax just warm enough so that you could wipe it off with some paper towel. I'd do that before anything else. You could use a base cleaner, and you probably should, but base cleaner is often considered a last resort type of thing because it's really aggressive. So just slowly and gently heat up that base and try to wipe that kick wax off. Fortunately, it'll all come off eventually if you ski enough 🙃
Good tips, thanks!
Glad you liked the video, and I hope the tips make your xc skiing more enjoyable!
Can you use a car wax?
I suspect that just about any type of wax may be better than nothing, but I'd stick to more typical ski wax as it's designed for the specific purpose. That said, I have a friend who used to carry with him a small candle when backcountry xc skiing to rub on his skis in lieu of a skiing type of quick wax. And, I've actually used PAM cooking oil/spray in a pinch. But, generally, I recommend just sticking to ski wax :)
After watching this, I'm wondering if the "waxes ski" is just a myth. If the temperature goes from 40 to 10 degrees overnight, do you have to start all over with a harder wax? If you just went with the F4 method, how much performance would you lose?
Hey Craig!
The idea of waxless xc skis was part innovation/part marketing scheme. Eliminating 50% of the waxing considerations (kick wax) definitely simplifies things for the average person. But for some reason the idea of having to still apply glide wax to the tips and tails was lost in translation. And, also, you do need to apply some type of thin layer of glide wax to the grip zone to prevent snow from sticking to the scales. So, to your point, the idea of a waxless ski is at least part myth.
As far as waxing for specific temperature conditions, anticipation of when you'll use the skis (and waxing for those conditions) is the best defense for having to re-wax. But if it were me, and I was only going out for fun for an hour or two (in your described situation of 40-10 degrees), I probably wouldn't bother. That said, I often wax my skis slightly colder by using at least a little hard glide wax in combination with a warmer temperature rated wax (i.e. I'll cold crayon on a thin layer of hard wax and then hot iron drip warmer wax over it). Two temperature rated waxes combined won't be perfect for any one condition, but will give you a pretty wide range of use. In the Sierra Nevada, where I live, we do have wide fluctuations in temperatures, especially in the spring months. So, I could easily find myself xc skiing in 20 degrees (F) during a morning session, and then a 45 degree (F) environment by late afternoon of the same day. Even in spring, when I "cheat" by adding some of that slightly hard wax, I do it mostly because something is better than nothing and a hard wax will be a little more durable (i.e. it won't scrape off in 10 minutes under variable spring conditions).
I use F4 on occasion, but I find it's barely good for a single use. During the heart of winter, I'll rub on a thin layer of it over the scale pattern so that snow won't cling to the grip zone. But mostly for the regular season I hot wax my xc skis. I find that I use F4 the most during spring conditions. And this is driven by my laziness more than anything. Spring skiing conditions in the Sierra Nevada conspire to strip off any wax from the ski base within 10 minutes of use. Basically it's ice in the morning, slush in the afternoon, and natural debris all over the trails. That means I have to wax nearly everyday (because I'm skiing just about everyday during spring ). So I'll often just use some of the paste F4 as if I were traditionally hot waxing my skis (brush the skis clean, apply the paste wax, let it set a few minutes, and then brush out the paste wax).
Hope that helps, Craig. Let me know if you have any other questions :)
If you are going to hot wax the tips and tails of your WAXLESS skis, why not go all the way and buy regular skis?
😂 😂 I don't even know what that question means. When you say "regular" skis do you mean waxable classic cross-country skis or the entirely different discipline of alpine skiing? Because the vast majority of beginner and intermediate cross-country skiers that I make these videos for own waxless xc skis (scales or skins for the grip zone).
Waxless is so the rental guys dont have to clean 50 pair every night. If you have your own skis, WAX!
@@BlindDesertPete True that :)