AMD could have World Records - but they went for BIOS limits instead
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Outro:
Vendetta Beats - Angelus
(Custom Version)
In Germany we're celebrating the 1st Advent and I think Marry picked the music very well to fit the christmas time xD Enjoy your sunday!
for me personally i think it doesn't
Wonder if the 6900 xt will not have this artifical limit?
I am simple man. I see OC writing "xD" I like.
Came here to see if anyone else noticed. Yep sound like it.
Love your vids, buddy!
I just got a Dark Hero motherboard and are waiting on my 5950X CPU, but I’m a bit confused about something...
In your 5950X LN2 overclocking video you used 2 sticks of 16GB Corsair Vengeance RAM, at 4000MHz. Would it be better to use 4x8GB? Or even 4x16GB? Or just the 2x16? And if I wanted to get a brand that could RGB sync with the ASUS board, wouldn’t using G.Skill’s Trident Z Neo be better for that? Although, I can only find it up to 3800MHz. What do you think?
Thanks!
I have a theory:
It's to protect the value of the upcoming 6900XT. Remember the supposed limits on the RX 5700 and 5600 XT?
Either or the silicone start bugging out beyond those clocks.
I think you hit the nail there. I'm willing to bet a cup of coffee that there is no artificial limits in the 6900XT, BIOS or otherwise. That would be the primary incentive for enthusiasts to buy the 6900XT.
I was about to mention the 5600XT situation too... Have the red devil model and the only bios mod that appeared is to mine bitcoin... If the card wants to be a 5700 why put limits on it? Poor thing 🖐️😑
@@SaturnusDK but On the flip side, the TSMC 7nm is very OCable, if the 6800XT can be clocked to near 6900XT performance, well, the 6900XT can probably OC the same, so the gap still maintains, that is of course, *if* it does OC well with that amount of cores.
@@gctdonyre but if the 6800XT could match a stock 6900XT, then no one would buy the 6900XT. Keep in mind that if people can save +$300 by moving sliders, then they will take that route.
Let's see if Igor and the community can do something about this
Igor is like a crazy Professor or something, i guess Frankenstein's assistant was called Igor :)
@@SugarRainer Mad scientist is what are you trying to say.
+1
There is something decidedly not casual about this comment.
@@Enders casual gamer, not casual overclocker :-)
Didn't know you started selling Mary's nail polish as a thermal grizzly product
The color only, but it’s a legit conformal coating. He advertised it a few months ago, but it was at the end of a video.
@@Michael-OBrien r/whooosh
@@OTechnology he assumed you were stupid. Tbh I don’t blame him
@@Vader294 Wow I guess I'm a mirror.
That 2800Mhz limit sounds a lot like AMD not wanting an overclocked 6800XT to match the 6900XT 🤔
0:49 Cat :)
Best Comment.
@@JuneNeko 🙂
Her name is Mary.
As many as vids I've watched I never noticed the cat bridge
Cat also at 3:38 :D
If the card hits 3000mhz the clocks will go back to January 1st 2020 - AMD is just watching out for us.
Only if it gets struck by lightening while travelling at exactly 88MPH :)
@n0obhAcker00 so we can experience the chaos of the year 2020 all over again.
@n0obhAcker00 What chaos? omg. This year has been the worst year on the planet after the WW2. Not just Covid, so many shit happened.
@@Pixel_FX what exactly? Because I didn't notice much...
To specify: I only noticed having to wear a mask in grocery stores and people crying online about how horrible the year is.
@@Ocastia You must be living under a rock I guess.
Could very well have those artificial limits in place because AMD know RDNA2 can be pushed a lot higher with clocks/power and they don't want an OC'ed 6800XT beating a stock 6900XT, keeping segmentation in place, which is silly in itself as the 6900XT can just be OC'ed to stay ahead. Reminds me of the 5700 being artificially capped to stop it getting closer to the 5700XT with OCing it with firmware flashes and such it could get unlocked.
They did the same with Vega 56 to stop it form competing with the Vega 64. This is not new from AMD
@@theoldone22 It's probably due to how close each SKU is in their stack, whereas Nvidia in the past anyway have had SKUs that are further apart and even with OCing wouldn't get close, i.e an OCed 2060S can't reach a 2070S etc.
@@theoldone22 The 56 could also just take a 64 bios though.
@@gromann most of them yes, because the cards came with a very high default vcore to make sure the inferior ones wouldn't run into problems, most of them could be undervolted
(or in this case, reversed: you could squeeze more out of the chips because they weren't power starved)
the actual inferior ones would get unstable though, if there were no duds, there would be no reason for AMD to dial in the voltage that high.
Seems the power measurement is achieved by sensing the voltage across the low-side MOSFET (Rds(on) as shunt). The power stage have specific pins to output this voltage, which are connected to the PWM controller.
Never underestimate AMD's ability to shoot themselves in the foot, even when their opponent points the gun at their own head.
@@generussell6145 Idk man, he has a point. Steep price increase with Ryzen 5000, the Navi driver fuckup, this BIOS limit, the failure to produce a top-of-the line flagship last generation...
And before you recycle your comment: i have 2 full AMD systems.
I completely agree. AMD, instead of getting a wicked fast ball that's hard to hit, they got a beach ball tossed at them. They swung and missed! This launch couldn't be much worse. High prices and no inventory. I'm going to try and get a 6900 XT now, but I don't have much faith I'll be able to land one.
@@generussell6145 Not being defensive, only stating facts. Everything @Bushhawk has said is purely objective info, not subjective (also he said himself he owns an AMD system so there's that). Maybe if you open your eyes you'll see that you're the one being super defensive here.
@@generussell6145 My point is that it is an unneccessary measure, the kind of practice that Nvidia is all too happy to employ. I at no point denied that it was an extremely fast card. It is important to draw attention, because once a company starts limiting the user, they get more and more comfortable with it.
@@lancervi1762 The only thing that was bad about launch was their marketing. The stock was always gonna be low.
0:52 i spy a ginger ninja
I love the cat! 0:50
They are waiting on 3070 Ti and 3080 Ti so they can do same thing as last year, "unlock additional power by bios/driver update".....
so, roman, how often does the cat toss the GPU boxes from that shelf? ;)
🤣👌
Stopped counting xD
@@der8auer Better use glue to fix those boxes in place. Im sure it will trigger GN "Found the glue" Steve.
🤣😂😅
6900XT has limit at 3000mhz. Maybe you can use that 6900XT RedDevil bios on the 6800XT. It has dual bios, so safe to try flashing.
TG Shield, the newest nail polish from Thermal Grizzly :D
Reach out to AMD directly.
They can only benefit from the free advertisement
Not if they want to justify the higher price of the 6900XT when it comes out. 8 extra CU's is not going to provide much extra performance in gaming for instance, so they need to retain the fact that the 6900XT also clocks higher, even if it is a result of artificial limitation.
they wont change the clock limit because
each gen of ryzen cpu went +100 or 200mhz, with amd saying it should boost higher (but never did)
its an artificial cap to make the next gen seem like a huge leap.
My guess is AMD doesn’t want a repeat of the Vega 56 vs 64 situation again with the 6800XT vs 6900XT. I doubt the full 80 CU part will hit these clocks as easily.
it will
Der8auer, I would strongly recommend a Hakko FX 951, it makes board work like that an absolute breze and you can get some really tiny tips for the small work.
Even just a new tip would likely make a world of difference
@@mycosys The integreated heating elements of the 951 really makes working on many ground plane PCBs a lot easier, and GPU PCBs are absolutele tanks for soldering heat.
@@JoshuaNicoll a fx 888D is more than enough and cost less than 150 bucks.
@@zaxmaxlax they suck, anyone who has used an integrated heating element iron will know how much a normal iron sucks, they're crap and you can lie to yourself all you want.
@@JoshuaNicoll Do you even know what you're talking about?
3:14 standing next to the fire in-game to warm up the GPU
omg that flew over my head 😂😂
Wasn't there something a while back about the fabric breaking down past certain clocks? I think it was 2300mhz on the PS5 silicon, so with some tweaking and design AMD may have gotten the fabric to push to 2800mhz on RDNA2 GPUs.
Random guy with a 3080 : barely manages +100 mhz offset
Me with a 6800XT: yeah, +600 seems too less. Let's blame AMD.
of course, blaming AMD for too much oc, but not much gain
@@freyalunar3633 The issue with OC'ing in general is that it's based on the predisposition that clock speed and tangible gains in output are intrinsically linked, when they are not. OC's can only improve a very narrow set of metrics.
Love the cat walking on the shelves, awesome ! :D
On one side, we're getting an artificial BIOS limit (AMD), while on the other side, it looks like we're getting Drivered (nvidia's driver trying to prevent us from overclocking their cards past a certain point). oh man, what a shame...
Least amd we can bypass that with program
Dude you need to get yourself a smaller tip for your soldering iron.
it pains me to see the gigantic tip for such small pads.
Some men can handle having a big tip...
@@Anacronian he clearly cant. That's way to much heat for such a small pad. he is lucky that he can throw it away when it stops working and don't have to pay for it in the first place.
@@Dennild Lmao. He is a professional engineer, designer, over clocker, also world champion, hardware reviewer, and hacker. He's done this on significantly more cards than you probably ever owned. GPUs are very precise, if it was too much heat his GPUs wouldn't be able to break world records.
@@XDSDDLord Seems like you know everything then. Only 1 of those "titles" have anything to do with modifying PCB's. You do not know my background or what i do for a living and have been doing for the last many years. But hey this is youtube.
Lastly, i was not bashing on him. He clearly knows alot about OC and making youtube videos, but had i used that kind of heat on the products i work on daily they would have been thrown out and the "Modifikation" would have been seen as destructive.
I agree. I didn't understand why he was putting all that kapton tape on then I saw that chisel tip. That is a huge tip. That is not for SMT work. That is for soldering wires to speakers or something like that. You could use it for removing solder from a large pad (D2PAK case, etc.) using braid, but not for attaching small wires to SMT test point pads.
The relaxing music while Roman is soldering to a brand new GPU is so ironic haha
Igor posted an article about this 2.8 GHz limit on the 21st of Oct
Your point is?
Hey der8auer I greatly appreciate the effort you put into these videos. Curious though, is it the voice over that you do twice for both deutche sprache and english? Great effort!
You need a new tip for your soldering iron, it’s got a lot of corrosion on it so it won’t be doing the best job. probably would be best to get some different tips too including smaller ones 🙂. I would recommend a TS80P. I have a Hakko 888D which has been great
may lie in the chipset / for power control -limiting such as to not blow out the chips - did you not say no way to bypass power limit On Board - that they went to a chipset design instead of capacitors ? Just a thought
Is it possible to mod the power phases like Buildzoid and I did on the Vega64?
Just parallel a few resistors to lower the sense current on every phase or that's a different VRM desing?
If I remember those resistors were across the inductor and about 540 ohm, I ended up paralleling some value to get down to 100 ohm, now I'm pulling 450-500watt and the gpu only shows 80-90w. This mod should also help with LLC but it depends on how it's setup, I read somewhere that higher the power less "tight" was the controller but couln't see any difference on the oscilloscope, just a ton of switching noise :/
I know this is a good while after this video but I just managed to get my hands on one of these beasts, did some tinkering and found the soame that the power limit is the limiting factor as I was bouncing off it all the time. Found that actually targeting a lower max clock and giving a 100mv undervolt offset in the exact dame test I managed to get 67.1fps with a target frequency of 2600mhz with it running on average 2450mhz.
I Think the limit at 2800 is to not cannibalize on the upcoming 6900 and 6900xt Cards performance, or perhaps even to make room for a “super” edition of 6800xt later.
Good video as always!
Chrismas song and colors ^^ @2:45
PLL is probably limited to 2800 MHz. Going above would propably lead to timing closure issue.
There are already reports of the 6900 XT reaching over 3 GHz.
@@imadecoy. This is a better chip than the RX 6800 Xt. But maybe that it is marketing after all. Anyway, this won't make a lot of FPS difference.
@@alexandreesquenet3736 Would be fun to experiment with though.
The max allowed clock can be seen in MorePowerTool. Leaks has shown that 6800XT has a limit of 2800Mhz and 6900XT has a limit of 3000Mhz. Both with +15% power limit
micro-soldering caused me PTSD in my electronics classes
It's quite calming really.
@@te0nani Yeah maybe if your professor wasn't ex military 🤣
@@BloodsCaress Oh, I know the drill pretty well. I was a M. instructor too. He just wants to tease you a bit to test your resistance to stress, probably. Or he is a straight out Sadist. Ether way, you need two peoples participation for that. Just chill.
@@te0nani it was years ago. He was nice. I could see how my response may have made it seem like he was a bad guy. I just had a lot of respect for him and didn't want to mess up since he did a great job teaching us is all. Stress was definitely self-induced that's why it wasn't really calming to me haha
Yea I hate how AMD started locking down the BIOS. The Polaris cards were amazing with the unlocked freedom of BIOS modifications.
That's some cool red nail polish.
Great video! So cool!!! Even if the details go over my head a little :)
Man I remember getting around clock limits on the (very) old Athlon CPUs by bridging some traces with a pencil. Hopefully someone can find a trick for this when there are enough cards to go around.
You got my like just for saying "Powercolor" :)
You'd think he was italian.
*gestures with thumb, index finger and middle finger touching, and italian accent*
Powercolore!
need to get some of that tg shield.. Gone are the days of looking for a suitable nail polish!
What game did you do the tests on? It looks kinda like Metro but the character models are wrong and you're in 3rd person, and it could be heavily modded Fallout 4 but the one character standing behind the stall was rotating on her axis instead of doing an idle. Also thanks for the video :D
It's remnant from the ashes
I have this graphics card , i paired it with i9 9900k and 32gb ram gskill royal , great perf I am very happy. :D
3:40 lovely cat :)
Dear AMD please send De8auer an unlocked BIOS so he can see what these cards can really do, if his 8 GHZ out of a FX CPU isn't enough motivation I don't know what would be.
I think it's fair to assume that AMD thought 2800 is more than enough, being a ridiculously high value for a GPU. But the fact these cards can clock this high on stock air cooling shows the maturity of the process along with the much better design of RDNA. AMD usually listens to the community so hopefully they'll give a fully unlocked BIOS with 500W+ power limits possible for the hardcore overclockers!
Rumour has it that the 6900XT has a 3.0 GHz clock limit as well for now.
Cannot have it beating the 6900xt, they made that mistake with Vega 56 and 64.
Actually the Vega 56 was "locked" to lower then the 64 it was just easy to bypass the lock they tried to use, you could also just flash the unlocked 64 bios on the 56 and have it work
@@theoldone22 yup they dont want that to happen, although I never got a Vega because of bitcoin mining, though if people want to get around a software lock they will, they even got around the none SLI on the GTX if a little pointless.
0:49 CAT SPOTTED!
Not really surprised to see artificial limits on AMD GPU, RX 5600XT back at launch have similar problem. Let's hope this is not a method to 'save' the 6900XT from the higher-clocked 6800XT. These GPUs are capable of world records for sure :)
Finnish io-tech managed to overclock their Asus ROG strix LC RX 6800 XT OC to the max of the drivers. OC was 2800MHz and memory 2150 MHz, average gaming OC was 2750 MHz. Those numbers were made with +15% powerlimit. Temperature raised only 3°C to 61°C.
Ofc that Asus RX6800xt is AIO liquid cooled from factory.
Awww Roman applying lipstick to his GPU, should have put some lit candles and loose flower pedals around for the shot ;)
Overclocking is something we used to do. For many it is a sport, but for most it is a way for more performance.
What tuning may lead to achieving greater performance on RDNA2? Have you located the what bottlenecks it hits with higher clocks?
The reason for artificial limits is almost always for market segmentation. The RX 5700 was artificially limited vs the 5700XT. RDNA3 and RX 7000 will likely be a refresh of this GPU with high clocks. AMD will do a refresh in of this architecture next year, and raise voltage, and limits. Probably around the same time Nvidia switches to 7nm TSMC for their refresh.
""TG sheild"" ...looks like you slapped a label on it so your GF wouldnt notice you stole it...
💯
Pretty sure it says "shield", not "sheild".
Thank you so much for doing this. I have a Red Devil 6900 XT coming. My son picked it up from Microcenter this weekend. For his trouble, he gets my GTX 1080 Ti, which is an upgrade from his GTX 1070. I am hoping that I can get more out of my 6900 XT than 6800 XT levels. Of course, there were no 6800 XT on the shelves, so I said the hell with it and bought the 6900 XT.
I guess, because of 6900xt, like they did it with 5700 and 5600
Great content thank you Roman and Mary. And your cat.
hello little cat thanks for joining!
@der8auer
Don't forget that AMD gpu care within themselves the PSP.
Which mean one need to include some kind of form of AGESA dedicated for the gpu.
One way is to check the bios file and determine the UEFI vga bios blob composition.
This could be one of many explanations regarding the hard clock limit.
And maybe this is why PColor is not able to change the hard limit, if they answered you sincerely.
AMD can hard code whatever setting it wish within the gpu, as its fitness and silicon quality.
And there is no way one could change these values.
More or less like AMD set the silicon quality of its cpu related to the PBO mechanism.
I need to buy this type of tape (the yellow one) for one project. How is it called?
Kapton tape.
that soldering.... i would start shaking like a leaf if i had to do that
Great video!
But why can't you modify and flash the bios yourself? Also if ethereum miners can do it with other cards why can't power color do it to this one? XD
den Kommentar hats bestimmt schon oft gegeben (oder auch nicht?!): Wäre cool, wenn du einfach einen Zweitkanal für die englischen Videos machen könntest. Mit den zwei Uploads auf DE und EN tauchen die Videos immer doppelt im Abofeed auf :-(
@der8auer
Thanks for another great video... But man You really ought to invest in a better tip for Your soldering iron.
To watch You do "fine soldering" is a bit like watching someone "threading a needle with boxing gloves" :)
Best regards.
This might be a stupid question but can't you just edit the bios yourself with like polaris? If you are worried about the warranty... I'm pretty sure that goes out the window anyways when overclocking like this.
Have you considered that maybe the clock limit is enforced by the driver, not the card firmware? You might be able to overclock higher using the Mesa drivers on Linux. I've never actually done any GPU overclocking on Linux, but it might be worth a shot.
Fair criticism Roman, it is a shame that the company which did not lock much now locks everything. AMD used to sell CPU's and GPU's with extra cores/shaders, just because those were lying around and savy users could unlock it by flashing the BIOS. That is the AMD which I like. Now they fuse off cores and shaders like the other two, they artificially lock the single core performance of lower binned CPU's...Let people win the lottery and give people the opportunity to wreck their hardware if they want to. As long as it is not being made too easy, newbies will not be messing with overclocking to the extreme anyway.
I guess if you want to go above 2800MHz, you'll have to acquire the RX 6900 XTX extreme edition.
Rx 5600xt has similar clock limits to not to venture into 5700/xt sales region. However, msi bios without some safety check can be flashed to almost any card with micron memory and on top of it clock limitless modded bioses can be flashed. Maybe something similar exists for 6800xt?
GN and Joe had the same problem with the 5700xt on ln2 last year. I don't think they found a workaround.
Maybe the 6800XT's artificial clock limit is there because of the 6900XT.
Insane to think that AMD's cards are clocking 800mhz higher than Nvidia current offerings.
2008 lets' OC our CPU's to 3GHz , 2020 der8auer Let's OC our GPU's to 3GHz .
Probably should be needed to tamper the crystal from 32,768mhz to different freq in some way, but would be very very complicated to change just the freqs of core and not other controllers
WCCFTech recently posted an article mentioning that it looks like the bios for the 6900XT will limit the card to 3GHZ. After seeing this it seems to me,
like thats a possibility.
any updates on unlocking the max frequency ? Maybe AMD's process of purchasing silicon hasn't changed and they don't want us to unlock cards like Radeon/AMD used to.
Does Mary ever use the Thermal Grizzly Shield on her nails by accident? :P
The container seems so easy to mistake haha.
I can respect AMD for sticking to their guns on efficiency and not binning their best silicon for themselves/reference cards, allowing AIB partners to chase performance instead. What do you think ?
Custom BIOS modding should fix that GPU clock limit quickly.
Custom clock generator? I'm not sure, but seems like I heard that someone did something like this on some older motherboards for cpu, where it was on the board. But I'm not a professional and that could be fake memories
I think above 2800 you will get zero returns due to bandwidth limit being reached. I almost fully expect a 50 series with gddr6 to come out or their own super series. The infinity cache idea is great but with only 128mb the is hard limitations as we see when paired up against nvidia at 4k.
Why liquid metal on both surfaces..? I've always put on the other only. Has worked great.
Does this has to do with the supposed 6900XT? Aka they do not want the 6800 XT get too close to it?
This is more or less what happens with John deere tractors. If you buy the lower tier you get the same as the high end but with the locked down engine and features.
CAT!! 00:53
The cat in the top left, steals the show.
artificial clock limit is how they're gonna put out the 'refresh' on those cards next year lol.
Sorry to say, the 7000 series will be like Ryzen 5000 series versus the 1000 series. Lots more architecture changes coming. Will be an ever larger performance jump than the 6000 to 5000 series.
I'm new to this scene so it thrills me to know that I can use Nail Polish for my OCing needs 1:55.
Was there a follow up to this? My card is arriving tomorrow!
My 10900k runs at 5.0Ghz, but runs at 1.335v to achieve it, but my temps are the same, (55°c or less in game)
Stupid cpu comment here but R23 update, Ugh I went from ~ 6,500 score now's it's some random 16,500 did they add 10,000 to the score to make it look bigger? Lol
I'm actually amazed that cat did not drop anything.
Good job Roman. Perhaps with the clock limitation AMD just intends to strategically keep ace in their hand in form of possibility to launch "6900X" which would be unlocked 6800X...?
the clock limit is there so that this gen gpu's isent to close in performance to next gen. models
i'm guessing here but next gen radeon may be ''just'' a node shrink to 5nm and the benifits are mainly lower power comsumption and higher clocks so to maintain a good performance jump next gen. they might have limit the clocks on this gen.
cheers
Manufacturers set limits such as clock so it cant step into a class higher use case. Car manufacturers do this all the time with hard speed limits. BMW did this with the 2 series, so it didnt step on the toes of the M3
Maybe the clock limit is there in order to differentiate between 6800XT and 6900XT which from some sources will go to 3000.
Hello, Did you try AMD Memory tweak . Dont know if it works cheers
It's good that they did, if the AIB cards are crazy expensive as they are, can't imagine if they allowed custom bios, a $custom bios doesn't justify a $900 red devil
I have this card , its wow, the card can easily run at 2750 mgh.
I use this card at 2550 with a little voltage decrease.
The benefit from 2750mgh toward 2550 mgh its max 3 fps with a huge power usage.