SpaceX Starship Lunar Mission GIANT UPDATE
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2024
- Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @spacenewspod
The Starship system is a fully reusable, two‑stage‑to‑orbit super heavy‑lift launch vehicle under development by SpaceX. The system is composed of a booster stage named Super Heavy and a second stage, also called "Starship"
►► spacenewspod.com
►► starshipshirts.com
►► open.spotify.com/show/0jW7nOH...
►► / discord
►► / spacenewspod
►► / spacenewspod
►► / spacenewspod
►► / spacenewspod
►► / thespacenewspod 
Наука
![Rich Dunk (Ft. DaBaby) - BIG DAWG [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Pz2ewsSKAEM/mqdefault.jpg)
Only one fuel depot per moon mission is required. Several tanker flight are required to fill the fuel depot.
Cheers for the update… can I suggest something (and I’m not claiming to be an expert)… why not use a falcon 9 to launch a dragon. Dock with starship and then “problem solved”? Meaning… forget the expensive Orion and SLS altogether? I realise the enters into the SLS/ Space X fanboy debate… however, I’m new, and hopefully you get my reasoning? 👍👍👍
As far as I know, Orion is NASA developed and owned, and they gave conctract to spacex only for the lander. Plus Crew dragon would probably need a redesign for moon orbit, since crew dragon engines are designed to do orbital manoevers in LEO, and the heatshield would need to be build for reentry from much higher speeds. Orion is already designed for this and aims to be reusabe.
This means there are delays with the SLS and they are worried that the starship will actually be ready before SLS
You're not supposed to fashion your tinfoil hat into a crack pipe.
I read it as this: the Starship is in orbit and refueled. The Orion docks the crew to the Starship...and flies on to the moon, with the Orion still attached to Starship's nose; a perfect configuration for translunar injection. And they will have an Orion to return with.
They save a couple of steps doing it this way.... I'm not holding much hope for the gateway being ready in time.....the Chinese will get to the moon by the time Gateway is in operation. The problem is The SLS. One flight per year isn't going to get it done. I say you'll need at least TWO or THREE SLS missions, with one as a cargo variant
Congrats on almost 100k… soon to 1M 👍👍👍
It’s way too late with lots of stuff already in build but another aspect of Artemis that SpaceX could improve - assuming Starship development goes to plan - is the Lunar Gateway station. Multiple trips from Earth to the Gateway orbit to gradually build a space station that is pitifully small even when complete let alone when it only has the first basic habitation module. We know from the existing Artemis mission plan that HLS is required to be capable of getting from LEO to the Gateway and to then go on to the Moon & back. If HLS will be able to do that then a version designed to be a permanent space station - no legs, no Lunar landing thrusters, no access elevator, no weight allocation for payload to be taken to the Moon and only enough fuel to permanently insert itself into the Gateway orbit - that could provide a much, much bigger Lunar Gateway station all in a single mission (a “mission” being the initial launch of the space station version of HLS plus some LEO refuelling but fewer tankers needed than a Lunar-landing HLS would require since the space station HLS is never going to land on the Moon).
Thanks Wil
That's a great set you got in the background. Make a great interrogation room on the Death Star.
Starship with orion docked is lander and lifeboat attached. The orion could arrive at the moon with way more fuel than if it had to inject into orbit for the halo orbit,,,,
Orion is too big of a project to fail. Too many people working on it for NASA to drop. Politics. But, NASA would love many options. Space X gives them that. A mix of sls, starship, falcon and dragon. That keeps everyone happy. Gives NASA a ton of flexibility and if one system starts being expensive or unreliable, they can switch it up on the fly. This is a good move. Sls is in the long run doomed. But its what they have on plate, its paid for so why not use it...for now. Once Starship really proves itself a dozen or so times, then switch over with it or combo with dragon. Once Blue Orgin come online, then throw them a bone and add to the mix. Leaving an hls in lunar orbit after Orion goes home, then they have even more options . Land it for lunar base or keep it in orbit for backup. Its all good. Thank you for the great update. You rock dude!
These are videos worth Watching even when you don't know much about Space and Astronomy.
I think we are finding out with several of the recent loonar landers, autonomous programs make for poor landings. It's the human pilots that landed us on the moon six times.
The recent landers that fell over had some horizontal velocity that the "newbie" guidance systems did not eliminate. On the latest, the essential laser emitter was disabled even before launch.
First Starship has to prove that it can launch, orbit, and land reliably. After that, it has to be human certified. All this is going to take time.
Even with a total loss, new Starships can now be produced at intervals of 4-6 weeks. Human rating for Earth landing may be completed within 20 months of the first successful splashdown or "soft landing". The capacity to land, inspect, tweak, and launch semi-monthly is going to speed development to an astonishing unprecedented rate.
Returning crew to the Orion capsule in lunar orbit is more efficiently done with a smaller ascent craft than the SpaceX Starship. However, allocating additional propellant to leave some Starship HLS in low lunar orbit is intriguing. Imagine living large in all that volume...
Maybe I’m missing or misunderstanding something but I don’t see why they need Orion at all. After landing doesn’t HLS have to get back to LEO to refuel for the next landing so it could both take astronauts to the Moon and back again? The big delta-v, hence the big fuel expenditure, is getting from Earth to LEO and the fuel used up to do that is replenished in LEO so that HLS can set off for the Moon with full tanks. I’m pretty sure that a year or two ago when HLS was announced and was being discussed a lot Musk said in at least one presentation that he expected HLS to be able to land on the Moon with enough fuel left to be able to take off again and get all the way back to LEO.
HLS is current not designed for re-entry. But maybe HLS can dock to a dragon again within LEO to return astronauts back from the moon. Then Dragon returns the astronauts back to Earth.
@@MozeyNJ Understood. That was what I was assuming. Once launched from Earth HLS never returns to Earth’s surface again but only ever shuttles backwards and forwards from LEO to the Moon and back. I should have clarified that because as you say Crew Dragon would also need to take the astronauts back to Earth. Just maybe that wouldn’t require an extra launch though. I wonder whether if put into some sort of hibernation state the Crew Dragon that took the astronauts up from Earth’s surface to their LEO HLS rendezvous could then stay in orbit to wait until HLS bought them back from the Moon for another docking so that the same Crew Dragon could take them back to Earth.
@@julianfp1952 Exactly.Crew Dragon can stay in LEO longer just like the way it does at the ISS. Though what am not sure of is the Hibernation part since dragon may need altitude adjustments for a reboost. Also I I'm not sure whether the solar panels can generate enough power to keep computers, sensors and comms alive for an extended period.
You guys are missing DeltaV requirements. Hls can't return to earth orbit. Even if it can return to "trans-earth" trajectory, it would require as much fuel to circularise on earth orbit as it need for going to moon. So it would be one way trip, and Orion would be needed for return from moon. Dragon is not able to do it in current state, as it would need better heatshield, and proper service module with enough DeltaV to return from moon orbit. Creating moon dragon is possible, but it requires to go thru human rating of capsule and Falcon heavy, as 9 is not powerful enough to do that. For that NASA should spit billion or three extra. I doubt they will do that, as they already paid for few SLS, and I suspect that later NASA hopes to switch entirely to Starship.
The HLS version cannot return to LEO, nor land on Earth. You would need a version with heat tiles and flaps to return to LEO, plus more propellant to escape Lunar orbit and raise perigee in LEO after the _aerocapture_ maneuver.
Just have the starship hls haul a couple Orion capsules to the moon so they will have a spare just in case it breaks down.
This whole configuration has always seemed REALLY weird to me. It's almost as if the SLS launch is the small part, but that's the part that carries the humans. But in a way, it kind of makes sense. Get most of the mass up into orbit with an even bigger rocket, but one not as optimized for carrying crew members through the most critical phases-launch and re-entry.
The optimal system would be to send up astronauts via Crew Dragon to HLS.
For a while I’ve imagined how I would feel as an Artemis astronaut crammed into an Orion capsule for the multi-day trip from LEO to the Lunar Gateway knowing that at pretty much the same time Starship HLS was making the same trip with its (I assume due to the overall size) relatively spacious and luxurious living quarters total empty and unused for the same journey. I would be a tad irritated about that aspect of the mission profile (although obviously massively honoured and excited to be a part of any Lunar mission).
Mabey they could mount a basketball hoop inside Star Ship!
The Orion capsule is curranty delayed due to its heatshield breaking off parts in the re-entry test.
Maybe Starship V3 will allow HLS sufficient delta V to land on the Moon and then return to LEO using powered breaking to reduce its speed to 17000mph(the HLS will be a lot lighter due to less fuel remaining), to then dock with the Crew Dragon for landing, thus getting around the Orion heatshild issue coming in hot at 25000mph.
No SLS or Orion needed.
That would require heat shield tiles, flaps, propellant to leave lunar orbit, and propellant to raise apogee after the aerocapture maneuver. However, a powered deceleration into LEO is not feasible.
This is Great idea while Orion gets uts heat shield fixed
I agree with all your points, the caveat being The starship is still a prototype so until the starship is fully operational, they will have the SLS as a fallback option. Thanks.
Also redundancy in space is pretty important
Currently the Orion capsule is delayed due to its heatshield breaking off parts in the re-entry test from the Moon at 25000mph.
Just a docking test close to home not a change
The point remains that the United States wants to own its own launch capabilities. Relying on a business is not ownership.
I dont get it. Nasa sls is needed so orion had enough delta v to travel to the moon. Now this report says that orion could dock with SS instead. As you say orion could be on a falcon booster as they dont need the full SLS. But then would SS have enough fuel to get back to earth? If it needs 10 fuel ups in LEO? Considering that orion was left behind. My heads managed 😮
More please
😍
The Apollo program used one booster to orbit and land on the moon. Why are we trying to use several ships to do the same thing?
Apollo was able to loft 140 tons to LEO. The block 1 SLS is around 80 tons to LEO, with the block 2 doing about 130 tons to LEO. The cancelled Constellation BDB was to loft 180 tons to LEO. NASA (Mike Griffin) didn't want anybody else to get into the delivering crew to the ISS so they designed a capsule that could sort of do everything but nothing really well and would be too heavy for any rocket of the time. Hence the Orion is to heavy to get into lunar orbit with a lunar lander even on the block 2.
One problem is that people look back at Apollo with rose colored glasses, Apollo was not safe. Apollo had to have the greatest test pilots/Astronauts in the world to even make it to the moon, and even then there were a lot of near disasters.
The requirements are much higher. Apollo spent only 48 hours on the surface near the Moon's equator. The initial HLS missions will be on the surface for about 2 weeks at the South pole.
Establishing a constantly occupied mining research base at the South pole of the Moon is a much more ambitious project. It will eventually require thousands of tons of infrastructure. So an inexpensive booster is essential. The expensive SLS is not practical.
Is it possible for Dragon to be the nose tip of Starship?
Yes. ISS, Orion, hls and Dragon uses same docking system.
1depot 10 refuel ships that load depot
Thanks . Stalker Alert
Thanks debs !
Why don't they build a space station first between the moon and earth so there's a problem they can get rescued
That fuel transfer thing is for the birds...10....Really?
The SLS is just a huge waste of money. Orion can be launched on a FH. Its like launching a 3 Billion dollar tire into space, and only the valve stem cap is the payload.
Thanks for the great episode.
- NOM
This makes sense. It allows for an astronaut rescue in LEO if there are problems with SLS and/or Starship, They can delay the astronaut launch until the multiple refueling missions are done, minimizing boiloff.
The question is does the Orion capsule fly by itself to the moon empty?
Starship can no reenter from the Moon. So, Orion is needed for now.
SLS can go to the Moon right away, Starship needs multiple refuelibg missions. There is value in having something that can go to the Moon directly.
Can't see why the Dragon capsule can't be used to both take the astronauts to LEO and after the mission land them. The only question is if the Starship can travel to the moon, then land, take-off, and travel back to LEO without refilling its tanks.
Just have to wait ten more years for SpaceX.
The starship might yet turn out to be an emporer with no clothes. The ship hasn't done much so far, at least not when compared with the ISL.
It's politics.
Maybe make one orbit and land before making big projects. That stupid rocket will never go to the moon. The ship to ship refueling is beyond ridiculous and will be the end of Starship.
I’m glad there are people out there with brains that don’t think like you. Otherwise we would be stuck on this planet forever. Never bet against Elon Musk. Or do you have billions of dollars. What have you done for the human race, ever?
no
you’re just wrong
Will NASA want to stay with Musk if he keeps going weird in Twitter/X . There will be a public backlash .
No it isn't the end of SLS. That is not going happen.