Lol, Germany has a much higher Export quota compared to China. But China has the "problem" of "overcapacity". B the way VW is partly owned by the government.
@@EnriqueAThieleSolivan It's owned by the Lower Saxony government. It used to be the prime minister of Lower Saxony will automatically appointed as the president of VW.
@@waynegnarlie1 Google: What is the tax on imported cars in China? The rates vary from 25% to 47% of the vehicles value depending on engine displacement. The country also asses a 17% value added tax on new passenger vehicles. Be aware, though that people from abroad, who are certified as being experts in their fields by the Chinese government can import their car tax-free.
Instead of directly giving incentive to companies, China choose a better way to boost the industry: heavily invest on infrastructure. For example, the state-owned charging network is running at minimal profit, but it greatly boosts the sales of EVs in suburban areas.
The 10% already charged is standard normal import duty, applied on most imports including UK!. I live in the EU and if I buy goods from say USA, UK, Australia, Singapore etc, I have to pay 10% import duty on the goods cost plus delivery cost. Then I have VAT on top!
Are you sure? Im not sure but I think under a certain amount, it's tariff free. Like US people can buy stuff under $800 or something from alibabba with no tariffs. And I read if there is a tariff, the Chinese govt. pays the companies to cover it. Or they just re import it from Mexico like steel and then its also no tariff.
@@ReverendGreg Google Reuter report, I can't paste any link here cuz it was removed by RUclips AI. Title: EU mandated its EV firms turn over 'unprecedented' amounts of data
That is what China did to all foreign companies in China since 1980’s. Formulas, design documents and technical knowledge for the privilege of operating in China
*@ws7001* THAT IS A LIE !! No companies in the world would do that. It makes no difference what the market is. And I'm sure you know that. Had ANY companies did that, they would have been finished in no time because Chinese companies can always make the same thing much cheaper. If Apple and Tesla did what you insisted they did, they would have been bankrupt by now because Chinese companies would have made the exact same thing with a much cheaper price!! Apple has been in China for at least 10 years! And unlike what you said they are STILL there today!
I think any tariffs like this should be given with a time for it to end. So European or US manufacturers are given 5 years to catch up and if they don't do it before 5 years then they need to learn to survive with the competition.
china could respond with excise taxes on tesla. checkmate. the eu is rapidly losing its sales in china as is gm. big troubles ahead for thuse companies. they need to be in that huge mkt.
The Chinese is targeting European agricultural sector now. It would be interesting as we know the European are subsidizing their agricultural industry. There's no point to retaliate on European auto industry. You achieve nothing other than making some CEOs go cry babies on their government. You hit the farmers and these dudes will block the highways with their tractors and ready to go to war with the riot police.
Problem is the EU wasn't just asking for their financial transaction details. They were also asking for the Chinese companies to reveal their technology secrets!!! They ordered Chinese companies to reveal the EXACT composition of their batteries : (1) what the exact chemical components were, and (2) the amount of each chemical component used. Those refusing to co-operate was penalized.
What China's goverment does is investment. They invest into the sector of technology. The EU and US do the same. But seem that China does a much better job, because they are catching up rapidly on every tech aspect.
But US subsidies are to consumers buying the product. Sure, the company gets the money, but only at point of sale. Company has to build plant, make the car. China's subsidy is investment driven. They help Company build plant, make car. That's why they end up with surplus cars, low capacity utilization, price wars, dumping abroad, bankruptcy, etc. China, like all good communists, are market blind. They just don't get it.
People in UK know MG is a Chinese and not a British car........ it sells because it is a competitive package, always positively reviewed by the auto-press.
@@vorpalinferno9711 It is hypocrisy if you yourself are doing what you are accusing others of doing. Both Europe and the US have also been subsidizing their own car industry.
@@ChinaSongsCollection - It's more by way of normal business practices, China will open up car plants within Europe which will placate European politicians as it will create job and maintain local supply chains. This happens both ways, China has done similar in the automaker and technology markets in the past to allow access to their local markets.
@@ChinaSongsCollection Its a Nation that promotes its own national interest. Just like all other nations. See how much tariffs you have to pay if you want to sell stuff in India
@@ChinaSongsCollection Its hypocrisy but the impact will be hardly large. The Chinese will simply set up assembly plants and/or create a new brand in Hungary then stamp "Made in Hungary" on the cars. What will the EU do? Maybe slap tariffs on itself?
European automakers and other big euro industries will be hammered by Chinese applying tariffs. The EU will end up helping nobody, citizens will be worse off, some fatcat auto industry may be living easier.
I guess legacy auto doesn’t get subsidies? They make headlines here in Ontario because of jobs. Literally preventing bankruptcy I guess is not a subsidy.
Brexit means the UK is not subjected to these European tariffs, I suspect a lot of Irish people buying UK registered RHD model 3 next year to avoid the increased tariffs. MG will likely also export a lot of EVs to UK where the price will be massively cheaper than in the EU
The EU is so dishonest that they stated in their document using highly tortuous "logic" that BYD's bonds should have a "B" rating (junk bond status). They could've just researched Fitch which gives BYD's bonds a AAAsf rating. The EU then calculates the difference in interest between AAA and B and calls that a subsidy for BYD. I could make any company look like they are receiving major subsidies by arbitrarily lowering their bond rating by 5 grades and calculating the difference in interest paid. I think I trust the rating of a highly respected impartial ratings agency such as Fitch over the opinion of some highly biased EU bureaucrat with a clear political agenda and axe to grind. LOL.
I have long said that if government gives money to anything they should get a share of the profits even if it’s tiny. So I guess treat the subsidies as a very low interest loan. 0.25-1% of the loan or profit.
Berkshire Hathaway still owns 6.9% of BYD stock. Many other US companies own them too. Tesla is heavily subsidized. I now hear that steel from china will be heavily tariffed making steel much more expensive since companies have to buy domestic, Canadian and Brazilian. Unemployment will result. Users of steel will feel the pinch and start laying off in order to pay for higher priced steel. Do you think that users of steel want lower profits??? Dig deeper into your pockets for higher priced everything.
So basicly you're saying: the EU was planning on charging Tesla with 21% extra tariff because - and only because - there might have been subsidies given from the chinese gouvernment. Now the EU reduces - since there were no subsidies - the tariff down to 9 percent. Because of what now reason exactly?
It is not possible to fairly complete with Chinese labor. The Chinese government is a share holder on most of those companies and they have heavily subsidized these companies with a thought out long term investment plans. This is actually not good for consumers long term as the Chinese government have enough money to keep the price of these cars low to drive out competition. That is not to mention the cost of labor in China compared to US and EU labor costs.
The issue with Chinese govt owned car companies is that they can subsidise until they destroy Eu car companies and then they can raise their prices. Secondly, EU should protect their car industry because they need to collect their taxes and pay for social welfare programs
Nah. Restricting them from those products just encourages them to make their own brands. Sanctions and restriction aren't working on China and Russia and they likely won't work on the EU.
In the end, the ordinary citizens will pay more, instead of paying less. To protect local car industry (basically Germany, France, to some degree Italy and Spain) all EU citizens will need to pay more. Why? So that CEOs of these companies can have even bigger bonuses and be even more lazy in their development instead go and do a proper R&D and fight on level field.
All EU car companies should be forced to open their books to the Chinese government. Should Teslas in the China be taxed because they have received subsides from the US?
The people who lose the most from tariffs on Chinese EVs are European consumers. Tariffs are paid by consumers, not companies. The only people who benefit are Hungarian workers who will build the EVs for Chinese companies to avoid European tariffs. Tariffs won't save the European car industry from Chinese competition
Im not sure of the full reason but the major part is Tesla not being fully subsidized and bankrolled by the CCP. Yes they are treated well but Tesla's China made car isnt artificially priced.
EV sales are growing rapidly in Africa, Chinese investment in the continent is now paying off, many in Africa have been lifted out of poverty are now buying Chinese products including EV's.
simple upshot of this ,all of the european carmakers will be taxed the same if not more for selling in China irregardless of whether they are made in China or not, Tesla can skirt around this by not selling cars into europe instead they will ramp up production in germany to cover the amount they import from china,the eu have obviously not thought this through,but hey since when do they eu ever think tariffs through, as for the "open your books", the eu books have not been audited and passed off for over a decade or more, crazy unelected buroprats :) :)
EU tariffs don't apply to Teslas made in Germany correct? It's only Teslas made in China that tariffs would apply. That point, if correct, should have been mentioned. China will avoid tariffs altogether by building EVs in EU countries to be sold in the EU and in Mexico to be sold in North America.
Vast majority of batteries in Teslas come from Panasonic, LG Chem and Tesla themselves. BYD batteries only found in Berlin-built base, RWD Model Y which sell in low numbers. Yeah, go ahead and stop selling BYD batteries that catch fire. LMFAO SMH
No it wont. Tesla has been moving production so if someting similar happens it would not be such a big blow.. BYD is the secon battery manufacturer. Tesla gets a lot from CATL and other manufacturers with plants close to their gigafactories.
@@wonderwalls3565 What race is that? "While BYD Expands Abroad, Another Han EV Catches Fire - What's Wrong With It?" - autoevolution (Aug. 18, 2022) "Chinese BYD electric car explodes while charging outside shopping mall" - Newsflare (Sep. 3, 2023) "BYD electric car catches fire at Hong Kong charging station, expert says short circuit could be the cause" - South China Morning Post (Jan. 26, 2024) "BYD Showroom Burns to the Ground After One Electric Car Bursts Into Flames" - autoevolution (May 16, 2024) BYD = Bury Your Dead No thanks!
China seem to have a policy to sell cars at a very low price ... We know that Beijing role these companies. If it continues to sell like that then most massive jobs losses and closure of western companies and the locals in those countries will basically be unemployed resulting in loads of suffering...perhaps western governments can invest in the automotive and under industries instead of funding wars
What is Tesla importing from China to the EU that they can't build at the factory in Berlin- Brandenbrug, Germany? As most American viewers will know, the US government was solely funded with import tariffs before there was an income tax. I admire that the EU kept their word to lower tariffs if the auto companies opened their books. Remember everyone, the EU has automakers that employee EU citizens. Please don't rush to judgement to quickly, just because you are on the internet.
The basic economic rule is that all countries want production and economic development in their own countries for local employment reasons. Protectionism is the natural result. India and China are leaders in protectionism. How many Chinese ev makers have major manufacturing plants in Europe or North America? Very few if any!
After the confiscation of the Russian money, and some EU politicians saying EU should just take over some Chinese owned infrastructures in the EU, I think nobody is willing to invest in the EU with the risk of losing it all if EU one day doesn't like your policies or something else about you. We really shot ourselves in both feet by those actions.
@5:51. No Sam, you need to tell the full story. When you say "open their books", the average viewer would assume you are saying open their financial books. But that is NOT the case! The EU is asking for technology secrets beside their financial transaction details. The Chinese companies are asked to reveal their technology secrets in full detail to the EU authorities. And those failing to co-operate would be penalised. The Chinese companies raised complaints to the Chinese gov't. And the Chinese gov't reflected this to the EU, but it didn't change the EU's decision to penalize those companies for not revealing those technology secrets. That is NOT the same as asking for financial dealings.
This is standard international business - most of these requests are due to establishing the chain of production to ensure that products and their component materials are in line with European standards to enable the products to be sold in Europe in the first place. Plus to ensure that the products and materials are being sourced in line with standards and prevent shadow use of materials from prohibited locations. China does the same on imports, also does similar with joint ventures where China insists that IP and knowledge is shared and in some cases transfered to the Chinese JV partner.
@@GruffSillyGoat No, that can't be the case because these car brands are already selling in Europe. Why would they be allowed to sell in Europe in the first place if the European authorities haven't already got what they needed to get? This has to be something that's beyond what is normal standard practice. ------------- As for knowledge sharing, that was in the very early days when China first opened to the West. As far as I know, ALL poor developing countries did the same. China is not unique. In fact, today Vietnam (and I believe India) STILL require knowledge sharing. China has LONG moved beyond that. And NONE of the technology shared are things that the sharing company view as important to keep. Again, not just in the case of China. But for ALL cases.
@@ChinaSongsCollection - China hasn't moved away from this approach, it's just more selective in which areas of tech, R&D and science it's now applied. In terms of the EU's approach this is normal, the automakers initially self-declare their products were unincumbered by chain of production and financial benefits. Once though they started selling in the EU market at volume this self-declaration would be verified, which is why EU representatives visited each of the automakers concerned and performed assessments. The result is that each automaker has been assessed separately with tariffs set specific to that automaker in respect of EU market rules, rather than the blanket tariff approach some other markets adopt. This is just the cost of doing business in other markets, one has ensure products and sales practices conform to the market one is selling in.
@@GruffSillyGoat I don't know enough about the details of the request from the EU. But judging from the complaints from the Chinese auto makers I would seriously doubt this would be normal business practice. Clearly the Chinese companies don't just sell in Europe. They would definitely know what is normal business practice. This clearly cannot be normal practice. But anyway, I guess it makes no difference what we say here. Let's see what this will lead to. Take care
I have nothing against EV's. I am happy to buy an EV when th etime is right. I just can't get over the hypocrisy. Reading this forum it seems many are OK with millions of people loosing their jobs, or slave labour to produce the cars, just as long as we can get cheap EV's no matter what. The wonders of capitalism. There are other economies with people who need to feed their families just like we do. If other countries need to put tariff's up so they can protect their own people then they should. I am pretty sure China would do the same if it went the other way. I wonder if we would be saying the same thing if we were being employed by a legacy car company and cheap cars were flooding our economy and threatening to take our jobs away. Especially if it were through uncompetitive practices. My argument isn't about EV's. It's about healthy and sustainable business practices and competition. The irony of it. We want sustainability for the environment but we don't care about sustainable economies unless it affects us directly. Wow!!! I hope you all get your wish and every legacy car company gets destroyed and millions are out of a job. It will become a monopoly for China and you can dream of all the cheap EV's you will buy. I can almost bet that China won't have one bit of concern for you or the environment. Let see how cheap EV's will be for foreign countries after that. Let's stop being so naive. BTW. Ths is not an attack on China either. I would have the same opinion for any country doing this. I don't work for any car company either.
I understand and generally agree. But you're on the wrong subject. Import taxes are simply the reflection of an economic sanction to restore the balance from the point of view of subsidies received by Chinese manufacturers. All countries subsidize, more or less, their local industries. But it's too unbalanced, anyone has the right to apply import taxes on these products. Nothing exceptional and nothing to do with ecology. The other underlying fact is that globalization is coming to an end and to cope with it, we all need to build factories closer or locally. As for the wonders of capitalism, yes it is the Western model. But if you want there are others: the Russian, Chinese, Indian, Muslim system. Which one do you prefer?
I think China will always play the hurt victim. All the while supporting subsidies to win the long game, and drive the legacy automakers out of business. At some point there will need to be massive consolidation among Chinese automakers.
Good as stock Holder in both byd and ZK zeekr technology stock game ASML ect yes sam look at the penetration in China yes still down down but good new zk stock brought more than couple thousand shares sam i going get you something wait for it
Maybe the EU should take a page from the CCP handbook and eliminate tariffs on China-made autos and simply refuse to issue such cars a registration needed to drive them. Europe is no stranger to subsidies but nobody does it to the same degree China does.
This is the intent of the EU tariffs to shift manufacturing base, and more importantly supply chains, into Europe. It's the same approach used with the Japanese car manufacturers in the 80's.
Tit for tat. To sell your high end cheese or high end luxury products into China , open your books . Let's see how much subsidies a cheesemaker or winemaker in France gets and apply the same tariff. Same fir German cars or machinery. Same for Spanish pork etc ...
Not want you want to sell Mercedes in China. European and American car makers were heavily reliant on Chinese car sales as for many it was there biggest single market. The CCP simply has to fine Mercedes and Germany will beg for mercy. The issue is that the tariffs aren’t coming from Germany but smaller EU countries that don’t have auto manufacturing or sell to China. Germany is a lot more conciliatory. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Why if possible would you own geely or ZK which is listed now on the New York stock exchange on their IPO if correct to deny all joint venture they could put pressure in retaliation. Can someone answer those more correctly to? This its like technology without debt the best according to so the shorts have 15%my money down Mama says I might find more kiss my ass I'm building a large position
We would buy them, but if they sell their cars for 3 times what the same model is sold for in China, this is before the tariffs, that's just a bunch of greed.
@@sebyst7907 I hear you re the 3x cost / greed comment. I’m in the UK, and when you look at cost of most goods here, vs in say the US, it often feels like we are getting ripped off. If a laptop in the states costs $1000, in the UK it would be £1000 which at today’s exchange rates equates to over $1300. Another example, cameras, Sony A9iii (their newest top end model) costs about £6000, but you can buy grey import of the same model for £4000. Grey imports being the same camera but intended to be sold in a different country, companies are literally buying them in other countries cheaply, importing them into the UK & are able to sell them for 2/3rds of what the genuine UK models are on sale for. EV’s - this channel & others often advise how cheap you can get a model 3 for in the US, and it’s often tens of thousands less than we can buy them for in the UK. So, yeah, I share your comment re if they charge much more in Europe for the same product, it’s just greed.
No, I’d buy one at the right price. MG are (currently) pretty competitive in the UK, but other like BYD are priced too high. There’s only going to be one loser with all this tariff nonsense and that’s the West. Also, UK is not EU and haven’t confirmed if the tariffs will even apply here.
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Lol, Germany has a much higher Export quota compared to China. But China has the "problem" of "overcapacity". B the way VW is partly owned by the government.
I had never heard that from VW.
@@EnriqueAThieleSolivan It has been a Germany vs EU dispute over man years
2/3rds of the cars Germany produces is exported it has an over capacity problem.
@@raycomeau6866 exactly
@@EnriqueAThieleSolivan It's owned by the Lower Saxony government. It used to be the prime minister of Lower Saxony will automatically appointed as the president of VW.
So all European auto makers have opened their books and revealed their gov't subsidies, incentives, and tax breaks?
No, I didn't think so.
Yes, they did.
CCP is 51% partner in all Chinese business.
They bend over backwards to the Chinese govt. What are you talking about?
Don't the Chinese also play this game with their imports? I thought so.
@@waynegnarlie1 Google: What is the tax on imported cars in China?
The rates vary from 25% to 47% of the vehicles value depending on engine displacement. The country also asses a 17% value added tax on new passenger vehicles. Be aware, though that people from abroad, who are certified as being experts in their fields by the Chinese government can import their car tax-free.
“Free Trade” for thee, Protectionism for me. “Our Democracy” in action again 🤡
The west is realizing that selling your soul to a communist dictatorship in return for cheap goods isn't a great strategy. All for EVs but F the CCP
Globalization is ending. Learn it.
Do you think there is free trade between the EU and China?
@@WolfetoneRebel1916 No. Free trade only inside the single market. For others countries it's only trade agreements. Some are quite wide, others not.
And you don’t think China gives incentives to its ev manufacturers.
Instead of directly giving incentive to companies, China choose a better way to boost the industry: heavily invest on infrastructure.
For example, the state-owned charging network is running at minimal profit, but it greatly boosts the sales of EVs in suburban areas.
The 10% already charged is standard normal import duty, applied on most imports including UK!. I live in the EU and if I buy goods from say USA, UK, Australia, Singapore etc, I have to pay 10% import duty on the goods cost plus delivery cost. Then I have VAT on top!
Are you sure? Im not sure but I think under a certain amount, it's tariff free. Like US people can buy stuff under $800 or something from alibabba with no tariffs. And I read if there is a tariff, the Chinese govt. pays the companies to cover it. Or they just re import it from Mexico like steel and then its also no tariff.
They can't compete on price and now quality and technology is better on Chinese cars.
EU asked the chinese manufacturer for their battery composition too, wtf!
Yes. And they were penalized for refusing to reveal their technology secrets.
Reference please.
@@ReverendGreg Google Reuter report, I can't paste any link here cuz it was removed by RUclips AI.
Title:
EU mandated its EV firms turn over 'unprecedented' amounts of data
That is what China did to all foreign companies in China since 1980’s. Formulas, design documents and technical knowledge for the privilege of operating in China
*@ws7001* THAT IS A LIE !!
No companies in the world would do that. It makes no difference what the market is.
And I'm sure you know that.
Had ANY companies did that, they would have been finished in no time because Chinese companies can always make the same thing much cheaper.
If Apple and Tesla did what you insisted they did, they would have been bankrupt by now because Chinese companies would have made the exact same thing with a much cheaper price!!
Apple has been in China for at least 10 years! And unlike what you said they are STILL there today!
Hopes China doesn't get mad but get even. 😂😂😂😂
Just Sam is getting mad, China getting even 😁
I think any tariffs like this should be given with a time for it to end. So European or US manufacturers are given 5 years to catch up and if they don't do it before 5 years then they need to learn to survive with the competition.
I will ban all imports. If you would like to sell in USA Europe produce in USA Europe
This actually makes sense to me as well. That's both fair and provides more engagement from manufactures. This would drive progress a lot more!
catch up with governement subsidies ? are you stupid or something ?
china could respond with excise taxes on tesla. checkmate. the eu is rapidly losing its sales in china as is gm. big troubles ahead for thuse companies. they need to be in that huge mkt.
Will European Car Manufacturers open their books to the Chinese Govt?
The Chinese is targeting European agricultural sector now. It would be interesting as we know the European are subsidizing their agricultural industry. There's no point to retaliate on European auto industry. You achieve nothing other than making some CEOs go cry babies on their government. You hit the farmers and these dudes will block the highways with their tractors and ready to go to war with the riot police.
They should not.
They are public corporations. You can google their financial statements and exchange filings.
Problem is the EU wasn't just asking for their financial transaction details.
They were also asking for the Chinese companies to reveal their technology secrets!!!
They ordered Chinese companies to reveal the EXACT composition of their batteries :
(1) what the exact chemical components were, and
(2) the amount of each chemical component used.
Those refusing to co-operate was penalized.
@ChinaSongsCollection China doesn't abide by any technology trademarks. They been stealing technology their whole existence. EU is right. F-China.
What China's goverment does is investment. They invest into the sector of technology. The EU and US do the same. But seem that China does a much better job, because they are catching up rapidly on every tech aspect.
But US subsidies are to consumers buying the product. Sure, the company gets the money, but only at point of sale. Company has to build plant, make the car. China's subsidy is investment driven. They help Company build plant, make car. That's why they end up with surplus cars, low capacity utilization, price wars, dumping abroad, bankruptcy, etc. China, like all good communists, are market blind. They just don't get it.
Of course we in Europe are subsidizing our own car industry
Socialism for the rich while it's cutthroat capitalism for the poor?
People in UK know MG is a Chinese and not a British car........ it sells because it is a competitive package, always positively reviewed by the auto-press.
Nah, but the hypocrisy is disgusting.
There is no hypocrisy. Its just economy 101. Tariffs have always existed.
@@vorpalinferno9711 It is hypocrisy if you yourself are doing what you are accusing others of doing.
Both Europe and the US have also been subsidizing their own car industry.
@@ChinaSongsCollection - It's more by way of normal business practices, China will open up car plants within Europe which will placate European politicians as it will create job and maintain local supply chains. This happens both ways, China has done similar in the automaker and technology markets in the past to allow access to their local markets.
@@ChinaSongsCollection Its a Nation that promotes its own national interest. Just like all other nations. See how much tariffs you have to pay if you want to sell stuff in India
@@ChinaSongsCollection Its hypocrisy but the impact will be hardly large. The Chinese will simply set up assembly plants and/or create a new brand in Hungary then stamp "Made in Hungary" on the cars. What will the EU do? Maybe slap tariffs on itself?
Its europe n us, what do you expect?
'cause Tesla never received funding from the US government 😁
Tesla got the land in Shanghai for free, in Shanghai.
Teslas batteries are subsidised via a deal between the Chinese government AND CATL. Tesla are also recipients of Chinese government loans. 😅
US government, Biden administration, hates Tesla and Musk. No goodies for them.
Sam, all imported vehicles into EU have a 10% tariff. Tesla gets an additional 9% for a total of 19%. Other Chinese companies get hit worse
I am interested in learning more about BYD, except right now I am living in the United States so no BYD sold here.
European automakers and other big euro industries will be hammered by Chinese applying tariffs. The EU will end up helping nobody, citizens will be worse off, some fatcat auto industry may be living easier.
I guess legacy auto doesn’t get subsidies? They make headlines here in Ontario because of jobs. Literally preventing bankruptcy I guess is not a subsidy.
The European knew they can't compete with the Chinese.
Neither can US legacy automakers.
Brexit means the UK is not subjected to these European tariffs, I suspect a lot of Irish people buying UK registered RHD model 3 next year to avoid the increased tariffs. MG will likely also export a lot of EVs to UK where the price will be massively cheaper than in the EU
And it's not just massive CCP subsidy, it's about technology in theft and rule of law - or lack thereof.
The EU is so dishonest that they stated in their document using highly tortuous "logic" that BYD's bonds should have a "B" rating (junk bond status). They could've just researched Fitch which gives BYD's bonds a AAAsf rating. The EU then calculates the difference in interest between AAA and B and calls that a subsidy for BYD. I could make any company look like they are receiving major subsidies by arbitrarily lowering their bond rating by 5 grades and calculating the difference in interest paid.
I think I trust the rating of a highly respected impartial ratings agency such as Fitch over the opinion of some highly biased EU bureaucrat with a clear political agenda and axe to grind. LOL.
Tariffs are the way of dealing with lopsided trade...
I have long said that if government gives money to anything they should get a share of the profits even if it’s tiny. So I guess treat the subsidies as a very low interest loan. 0.25-1% of the loan or profit.
Berkshire Hathaway still owns 6.9% of BYD stock. Many other US companies own them too.
Tesla is heavily subsidized.
I now hear that steel from china will be heavily tariffed making steel much more expensive since companies have to buy domestic, Canadian and Brazilian. Unemployment will result. Users of steel will feel the pinch and start laying off in order to pay for higher priced steel. Do you think that users of steel want lower profits???
Dig deeper into your pockets for higher priced everything.
Chinese EV maker was slapped with a 36% tariff. The company said the EU wanted too much information
So basicly you're saying: the EU was planning on charging Tesla with 21% extra tariff because - and only because - there might have been subsidies given from the chinese gouvernment. Now the EU reduces - since there were no subsidies - the tariff down to 9 percent. Because of what now reason exactly?
Maybe 9% is the base tariff for anything? More curious about what China tariffs on imported goods is, and other trade barriers.
@@TheBooban No, it's 9% in addition to the overall 10%
It is not possible to fairly complete with Chinese labor. The Chinese government is a share holder on most of those companies and they have heavily subsidized these companies with a thought out long term investment plans. This is actually not good for consumers long term as the Chinese government have enough money to keep the price of these cars low to drive out competition. That is not to mention the cost of labor in China compared to US and EU labor costs.
The issue with Chinese govt owned car companies is that they can subsidise until they destroy Eu car companies and then they can raise their prices.
Secondly, EU should protect their car industry because they need to collect their taxes and pay for social welfare programs
State owned vs state controllership two different topics... why is the US banning EV sales? lets dig a little deeper on that :)
Restrict sales of Solar Panels , Wind Turbines and Related Green Energy Equipment. Let Europe USE more Coal , Oil and Gas to power their electricity.
Energy independence without making the enemy rich.
Nah. Restricting them from those products just encourages them to make their own brands. Sanctions and restriction aren't working on China and Russia and they likely won't work on the EU.
@@AceChina China is falling apart. Youth unemployment is skyrocketing.
@@francismarion6400 Yeah the economy is slowing down. Still MUCH better than Canada though which is why I stay in China.
@francismarion6400 yeah while the rest of the world is falling faster.😂
It true EU do some strange things.
Norway isn't part of the EU
Yes but it part of the EEA with access to the common market so has to play by the rules.
@@esm7708 no tax on ev imports to norway, no matter where they come from
@@rawfromnowhere sorry I didn't realise they somehow made themselves exempt. They've got the best of both worlds.
What about Europiens automaker are subsidised by their governments also? Probably China will put tarifs on EU vehicles too.
Are french car companies still government owned?
Why does China deal with the eu at all, its like helping people that hate you.
In the end, the ordinary citizens will pay more, instead of paying less.
To protect local car industry (basically Germany, France, to some degree Italy and Spain) all EU citizens will need to pay more. Why? So that CEOs of these companies can have even bigger bonuses and be even more lazy in their development instead go and do a proper R&D and fight on level field.
My local car dealer have a lot of used BYD"s for sale (Denmark)
Are they gas or electric?
All EU car companies should be forced to open their books to the Chinese government. Should Teslas in the China be taxed because they have received subsides from the US?
They should just open up their books....wink wink.
Why do Chinese need the EU market?
Europe is broke. Even if Chinese EVs are cheap, no one needs EU can afford it.
401K, not "501K" friendo
You can only lead a horse to water..😮💨
The people who lose the most from tariffs on Chinese EVs are European consumers. Tariffs are paid by consumers, not companies. The only people who benefit are Hungarian workers who will build the EVs for Chinese companies to avoid European tariffs. Tariffs won't save the European car industry from Chinese competition
Does this apply to England and Norway?
What about Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland? Why seperate out one part of the UK?
Not Norway.
@@GruffSillyGoat ok I meant the UK but not Australia and Canada!
Nice maybe I can smuggle a BYD Seagull to Sweden?
Im not sure of the full reason but the major part is Tesla not being fully subsidized and bankrolled by the CCP. Yes they are treated well but Tesla's China made car isnt artificially priced.
EV sales are growing rapidly in Africa, Chinese investment in the continent is now paying off, many in Africa have been lifted out of poverty are now buying Chinese products including EV's.
Viking, check out the new Denza Z9 GT
What are Nio’s tariffs?
simple upshot of this ,all of the european carmakers will be taxed the same if not more for selling in China irregardless of whether they are made in China or not, Tesla can skirt around this by not selling cars into europe instead they will ramp up production in germany to cover the amount they import from china,the eu have obviously not thought this through,but hey since when do they eu ever think tariffs through, as for the "open your books", the eu books have not been audited and passed off for over a decade or more, crazy unelected buroprats :) :)
Of course Tesla as a US company does not get the same levels of subsidies as Chinese automakers
it's favoritism....
EU tariffs don't apply to Teslas made in Germany correct? It's only Teslas made in China that tariffs would apply. That point, if correct, should have been mentioned. China will avoid tariffs altogether by building EVs in EU countries to be sold in the EU and in Mexico to be sold in North America.
What the Chinese actually said and what you portray is quite different.
EU disrupts the 'China Inside' Masterplan from MB, BMW and VW. But they probably pay less import duties than the average Chinese automaker
Just close Shanghai plant, stop selling BYD batteries and Tesla is done.
Vast majority of batteries in Teslas come from Panasonic, LG Chem and Tesla themselves. BYD batteries only found in Berlin-built base, RWD Model Y which sell in low numbers. Yeah, go ahead and stop selling BYD batteries that catch fire. LMFAO SMH
No it wont. Tesla has been moving production so if someting similar happens it would not be such a big blow.. BYD is the secon battery manufacturer. Tesla gets a lot from CATL and other manufacturers with plants close to their gigafactories.
@@KP-xi4bj BYD batteries catch fire? your comment tells me your race.
@@wonderwalls3565 What race is that?
"While BYD Expands Abroad, Another Han EV Catches Fire - What's Wrong With It?" - autoevolution (Aug. 18, 2022)
"Chinese BYD electric car explodes while charging outside shopping mall" - Newsflare (Sep. 3, 2023)
"BYD electric car catches fire at Hong Kong charging station, expert says short circuit could be the cause" - South China Morning Post (Jan. 26, 2024)
"BYD Showroom Burns to the Ground After One Electric Car Bursts Into Flames" - autoevolution (May 16, 2024)
BYD = Bury Your Dead No thanks!
@@wonderwalls3565 Look up Chinese EV fires.
China seem to have a policy to sell cars at a very low price ... We know that Beijing role these companies. If it continues to sell like that then most massive jobs losses and closure of western companies and the locals in those countries will basically be unemployed resulting in loads of suffering...perhaps western governments can invest in the automotive and under industries instead of funding wars
Thanks for your disinformation
Disgusted by our eu gov..
All under pressure from the classic car manufactorers in germany, france and italy
What is Tesla importing from China to the EU that they can't build at the factory in Berlin- Brandenbrug, Germany? As most American viewers will know, the US government was solely funded with import tariffs before there was an income tax. I admire that the EU kept their word to lower tariffs if the auto companies opened their books. Remember everyone, the EU has automakers that employee EU citizens. Please don't rush to judgement to quickly, just because you are on the internet.
Hey viking, tesla cut down 500000 trees for its new factory in Berlin. But electric cars are more environmentally friendly. Wink wink
It's farcical 😅😅
It was a tree farm.
Time to strike back...
Beijing just tax Tesla Shanghai exports to Europe and keep the money 😂
White men's solidarity shows through.
Selective taxing, it's not racist at all, dear sweet 'china men'...
Afternoon in 23 minuets
Euro loss. Australia benefit
China should apply the same taxes on all EU ICE cars that are imported from EU countries
They probably will but since no one is buying EU brands anymore in China they don't need to.
The basic economic rule is that all countries want production and economic development in their own countries for local employment reasons. Protectionism is the natural result. India and China are leaders in protectionism. How many Chinese ev makers have major manufacturing plants in Europe or North America? Very few if any!
Instead of taxes they should invite China to open plants in Europe...
By thw way, first comment!!
...with 50/50 joint ventures...doesn't this sound familiar
You invite them with high enough tariffs
After the confiscation of the Russian money, and some EU politicians saying EU should just take over some Chinese owned infrastructures in the EU, I think nobody is willing to invest in the EU with the risk of losing it all if EU one day doesn't like your policies or something else about you. We really shot ourselves in both feet by those actions.
Good on both.
Tariffs on imports, no tariff if they open plants in Europe. That is an invitation.
@5:51. No Sam, you need to tell the full story.
When you say "open their books", the average viewer would assume you are saying open their financial books.
But that is NOT the case!
The EU is asking for technology secrets beside their financial transaction details.
The Chinese companies are asked to reveal their technology secrets in full detail to the EU authorities. And those failing to co-operate would be penalised.
The Chinese companies raised complaints to the Chinese gov't.
And the Chinese gov't reflected this to the EU, but it didn't change the EU's decision to penalize those companies for not revealing those technology secrets.
That is NOT the same as asking for financial dealings.
This is standard international business - most of these requests are due to establishing the chain of production to ensure that products and their component materials are in line with European standards to enable the products to be sold in Europe in the first place. Plus to ensure that the products and materials are being sourced in line with standards and prevent shadow use of materials from prohibited locations. China does the same on imports, also does similar with joint ventures where China insists that IP and knowledge is shared and in some cases transfered to the Chinese JV partner.
@@GruffSillyGoat No, that can't be the case because these car brands are already selling in Europe.
Why would they be allowed to sell in Europe in the first place if the European authorities haven't already got what they needed to get?
This has to be something that's beyond what is normal standard practice.
-------------
As for knowledge sharing, that was in the very early days when China first opened to the West. As far as I know, ALL poor developing countries did the same. China is not unique.
In fact, today Vietnam (and I believe India) STILL require knowledge sharing. China has LONG moved beyond that.
And NONE of the technology shared are things that the sharing company view as important to keep.
Again, not just in the case of China. But for ALL cases.
@@ChinaSongsCollection - China hasn't moved away from this approach, it's just more selective in which areas of tech, R&D and science it's now applied.
In terms of the EU's approach this is normal, the automakers initially self-declare their products were unincumbered by chain of production and financial benefits. Once though they started selling in the EU market at volume this self-declaration would be verified, which is why EU representatives visited each of the automakers concerned and performed assessments. The result is that each automaker has been assessed separately with tariffs set specific to that automaker in respect of EU market rules, rather than the blanket tariff approach some other markets adopt. This is just the cost of doing business in other markets, one has ensure products and sales practices conform to the market one is selling in.
@@GruffSillyGoat I don't know enough about the details of the request from the EU.
But judging from the complaints from the Chinese auto makers I would seriously doubt this would be normal business practice.
Clearly the Chinese companies don't just sell in Europe. They would definitely know what is normal business practice.
This clearly cannot be normal practice.
But anyway, I guess it makes no difference what we say here. Let's see what this will lead to.
Take care
Yes cheers bro
china could put massive tariffs on airbus airplanes. Now that China builds competitor airplanes.
A competitor ? With 85% of the components manufactured in the EU/USA ?
@@Daemia-o1qYou mean 85% your EU/US electronic component made in china😂?
@@anubizz3 85% of the components of the c919 come from usa/eu. Engines, avionics, wires, etc.
I have nothing against EV's. I am happy to buy an EV when th etime is right. I just can't get over the hypocrisy. Reading this forum it seems many are OK with millions of people loosing their jobs, or slave labour to produce the cars, just as long as we can get cheap EV's no matter what. The wonders of capitalism. There are other economies with people who need to feed their families just like we do. If other countries need to put tariff's up so they can protect their own people then they should. I am pretty sure China would do the same if it went the other way. I wonder if we would be saying the same thing if we were being employed by a legacy car company and cheap cars were flooding our economy and threatening to take our jobs away. Especially if it were through uncompetitive practices. My argument isn't about EV's. It's about healthy and sustainable business practices and competition. The irony of it. We want sustainability for the environment but we don't care about sustainable economies unless it affects us directly. Wow!!! I hope you all get your wish and every legacy car company gets destroyed and millions are out of a job. It will become a monopoly for China and you can dream of all the cheap EV's you will buy. I can almost bet that China won't have one bit of concern for you or the environment. Let see how cheap EV's will be for foreign countries after that. Let's stop being so naive. BTW. Ths is not an attack on China either. I would have the same opinion for any country doing this. I don't work for any car company either.
I understand and generally agree. But you're on the wrong subject.
Import taxes are simply the reflection of an economic sanction to restore the balance from the point of view of subsidies received by Chinese manufacturers. All countries subsidize, more or less, their local industries. But it's too unbalanced, anyone has the right to apply import taxes on these products. Nothing exceptional and nothing to do with ecology.
The other underlying fact is that globalization is coming to an end and to cope with it, we all need to build factories closer or locally.
As for the wonders of capitalism, yes it is the Western model. But if you want there are others: the Russian, Chinese, Indian, Muslim system. Which one do you prefer?
Slave labor?
لكن في أستراليا 5٪ 😂
وفي باقي العالم اقل من هذا 👍
Plus 10% GST.
But Tesla is one of the companies that receive the most subsidies from the Chinese government.
It doesn't matter Tesla is EU overlord golden child company... We will see soon Canada will reduce tariff from Tesla Chinese factory also..
I think China will always play the hurt victim. All the while supporting subsidies to win the long game, and drive the legacy automakers out of business. At some point there will need to be massive consolidation among Chinese automakers.
Trade with China needs to be based on a swap system we sell 50 Bn,, they sell 50Bn, Any more at + 300% , So keeping the world order,,in order
And ignoring China’s appalling human rights record and its authoritarian one party state?
Good as stock Holder in both byd and ZK zeekr technology stock game ASML ect yes sam look at the penetration in China yes still down down but good new zk stock brought more than couple thousand shares sam i going get you something wait for it
The German automotive industry is the heart of the country's economy -what will happen to Germany?
It’s Europe’s loss
Saving lives in EU. Nobody wants Chinese EVs that catch fire.
Nonsense
who own VW group 😂
Maybe the EU should take a page from the CCP handbook and eliminate tariffs on China-made autos and simply refuse to issue such cars a registration needed to drive them. Europe is no stranger to subsidies but nobody does it to the same degree China does.
The EU can and should do as it pleases, if it doesn't suit China , so be it .
Wait till Trump becomes pres.
Extremely dishonest.
No one wants to buy Brittish cars, just saying.
Won’t Tesla just ramp up Berlin and sell more cars in Europe from there? No tariffs on cars made in Germany.
The Chinese has similar plan too. Now there are already talks about only investing in countries that voted against tariff on chinese ev.
Tesla is not producing Model 3s there, but only Model Ys.
Both the plants in Germany and US uses a lot of Chinese imported components.
This is the intent of the EU tariffs to shift manufacturing base, and more importantly supply chains, into Europe. It's the same approach used with the Japanese car manufacturers in the 80's.
I don't know how Tesla doesn't pass at least some of those tariffs on, 19% is pretty much their whole profit margin.
Red Chinese Communist Party Police State oppression is not a conspiracy theory.
Tit for tat. To sell your high end cheese or high end luxury products into China , open your books . Let's see how much subsidies a cheesemaker or winemaker in France gets and apply the same tariff. Same fir German cars or machinery. Same for Spanish pork etc ...
China gives tax incentives to Chinese automakers too. There is nothing wrong with EU protecting Europe
Not want you want to sell Mercedes in China. European and American car makers were heavily reliant on Chinese car sales as for many it was there biggest single market. The CCP simply has to fine Mercedes and Germany will beg for mercy. The issue is that the tariffs aren’t coming from Germany but smaller EU countries that don’t have auto manufacturing or sell to China. Germany is a lot more conciliatory. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Why if possible would you own geely or ZK which is listed now on the New York stock exchange on their IPO if correct to deny all joint venture they could put pressure in retaliation. Can someone answer those more correctly to? This its like technology without debt the best according to so the shorts have 15%my money down Mama says I might find more kiss my ass I'm building a large position
I’m curious, anyone else in Europe watching this that specifically doesn’t want to buy a Chinese EV?
We would buy them, but if they sell their cars for 3 times what the same model is sold for in China, this is before the tariffs, that's just a bunch of greed.
There is no reason whatsoever to buy a CCP spy car
@@sebyst7907 I hear you re the 3x cost / greed comment.
I’m in the UK, and when you look at cost of most goods here, vs in say the US, it often feels like we are getting ripped off. If a laptop in the states costs $1000, in the UK it would be £1000 which at today’s exchange rates equates to over $1300.
Another example, cameras, Sony A9iii (their newest top end model) costs about £6000, but you can buy grey import of the same model for £4000. Grey imports being the same camera but intended to be sold in a different country, companies are literally buying them in other countries cheaply, importing them into the UK & are able to sell them for 2/3rds of what the genuine UK models are on sale for.
EV’s - this channel & others often advise how cheap you can get a model 3 for in the US, and it’s often tens of thousands less than we can buy them for in the UK.
So, yeah, I share your comment re if they charge much more in Europe for the same product, it’s just greed.
No, I’d buy one at the right price. MG are (currently) pretty competitive in the UK, but other like BYD are priced too high. There’s only going to be one loser with all this tariff nonsense and that’s the West.
Also, UK is not EU and haven’t confirmed if the tariffs will even apply here.
@@sebyst7907They're protecting European jobs the Chinese have been stealing. 😂😂😂😂
And the customer paid all the tarif.....😤
Europeans can pay high prices and still live very well. Good.