I had a very innocent faith in Jesus throughout my time at primary school. This as shattered by teenage cynicism (and the complete lack of any cultural or social pressure or justification for a Christian faith in England). I’m 35 now and went to my first mass a while ago. I hope to be confirmed this coming Easter. I don’t pretend to have had a great conversion experience but rather a change of heart. I am choosing to live in a different way and it has already brought me more solace and true community than I’ve really had before. I know (and respect) the intellectual arguments for atheism and theism. I used to see faith as something you either had or had not. A gift maybe. But in all honesty I think it is a choice. And leaving aside all philosophical questions i am praying in the same church my grandfather married in just after the war. The town is changing dramatically (first mosque popped up in an old baptist church) and not for the best (immigrant criminality and general social decay). Going to church also feels like a form of cultural resistance at this point.
I agree, going to church does feel like cultural resistance at this point. I go myself now after a lifetime of not going. I’m still working out exactly what I believe in- the truth is that I’m not sure- but in this highly technological and atheistic age those weekly hours in the church ( either at mass or just sat on my own in a near empty church of a quiet evening) are really nourishing for the soul.
A joy to be in the virtual company of two old school journalists, musing over some of the more important questions that arise in the autumn of my and their life.
Man searches for meaning, but also purpose. Our true purpose is seemingly being eroded away, and all we're left with is making money and self indulgence via consumerism.
The growth may well be important but they need to figure out if the pope is a catholic and what the hell happened after Vatican2…otherwise its not growth but retrenchement and an effort to disengage with actualité - no point at all in ‘following Gods will’ if one isnt actually acting it out…silence in the face of Genocide being a fair example
Sounds like Rod has seen the work of the same "dissident economists" that I have over the last four years. Roughly speaking the work adds up to the conclusion had Britain maintained a homogeneous population of around 40-50 million; not had divorce laws or double income mortgages and incidentally, pursued nuclear and not trashed the railways among other things - but most of all not embraced unfettered immigration, Britain by now would be a wealthier version of Switzerland or Norway. Smaller in overall GDP than present but much higher in GDP per-capita (which is what counts). Environmental, housing and NHS problems disappear (who would have guessed!?). On top of which it turns out that no developed economy needs immigration unless it has: 1. Unexploited resources that the native population cannot successfully exploit. 2. The state capacity (private and public) to organise and exploit said resources (Curiously Britain did up until about 1965. No need to ask what happened after) 3. The space into which the immigrant can expand Needless to say Britain (unlike say, America) has none of these attributes. The next part of the project I understand is, to measure the exogenous effects (positive or negative) of a non-European immigrant. Something that apparently has not been done in economics for fear of the answer. "Think of the cuisine, bigot!" Incidentally, the "dissident economists" are from global investment banks and for obvious reasons keep their heads down - for now.
On divorce . The issue of the abusive husband is brought up as justifucation . On one level it does free the woman but it also frees the abusive man to go out and abuse more women . The Christian responce would be to stop the abuse by dealing with the mans behaviour .
Quite. Christianity was unique from the very beginning, literally, in viewing man and woman as equal before God, a complimentary pair equally dependent. Infidelity and abuse always came under spousal abandonment.
So,it isn’t just me. That’s (sort of) a relief. Talking about the scales falling from one’s eyes, it was reading The Abolition of Britain by Peter Hitchens that was a bit of a turning point but going to church as a child was and still is the root of it. Unfortunately, the C of E has lost its way; it’s up to us to go back to Church and show the clergy what we, the congregation believe and do not believe.
Rod mentioned that he feels that the voice or presence of an inner judgement of himself is somehow extraneous, God perhaps. I used to believe that myself but later realised it was more likely me judging myself, something probably imbued in me from a Catholic upbringing. My self appraisals were repetitive and unduly harsh, so how on earth could that be helpful ? I eventually deployed a very good inner defense lawyer who does a great job for free.
24:10 why do we never discuss the catastrophic harms caused by divorce and unstable relationships in general? Because our key opinion leaders are heavily invested in this philosophy of life. They cannot admit that they were and are wrong. As a GP, I saw the massive harms due to sexual revolution, but you are not allowed to talk about them. This country is going to hell in every sense of that word because we have thrown Christianity under the bus. PS 10 million abortions, 10 million immigrants to replace these children who were denied life. This country has chosen our own doom, societal suicide and the end of our civilisation.
Personal belief is subtended by the freedom which is central to personal affirmation of Christ. Alongside this we have a triumphalist physicalism which wants to affirm a universal negative, which is a form of ignorance.
Lots of interesting points meriting comment and further development. With regard to the theme of religion, or more generally to the human perception of the divine, neurophysiology is opening new vistas. I'm sure many readers of this page will already be familiar with the work of Dr Ian McGilchrist but for those who aren't, The Master and His Emissary is worth reading.
There is a political Party in Scotland which was founded on the importance of family to be the bedrock of a healthy society……the Scottish FAMILY Party. See Manifesto.
I know the English revel in swearing, but it would be nice if we didn't. Robin Aitken does not sully his mouth with such vulgarities. I wish I didn't! I'm working on it. Good conversation though! Thanks for all you do Robin.
Certitude is definitely unnatural but can be obtained by experience of the supernatural, That is why the 'natural' believer has problems with the fervent bible believer. God is supernatural and when you experience Him then you have certitude. Certitude doesn't mean that you cannot have doubt but that you'd be crazy to do so.
Great conversation ….. But Never ever put Christianity and Islam in the same box and sentence…. Total opposite one’s a religion the other a cult …as you will be killed if you try to leave !!!!!! Christianity believes in forgiveness Please research your thoughts deeper 🕊🙏🏻🕊
You may abhor certitude Rod, but you did not mention Jesus Christ in person ONCE... That is beyond depressing... When are you all in the press going to bloody well wake up and ACT? ... When you are kneeling in judgement before Him trying to explain your dismal failure to LEAD your country and culture back Home again? I am sorry but the nation deserves far better than you lot in the inner party. The English are now an absolutely pathetic disgrace. Say His NAME, man - grow some balls... Be proud of Him... - look at your flag and be proud only of Christ and let the young have someone finally to follow. Unless England turns around from your Godless hatred of Christian righteousness and returns to Christ with faith and reverence your country will never be blessed again. Never. It is curtains. England deserves its fate for turning its back on the only Truth. Say His name!! What the HELL happened to you all? Your ancestors must be disgusted. Sorry to blame you personally - I was worse.... but you have shocked me.... The interviewer, too. This just isn't good enough. The rebel yell is truly, truly needed - a total revolution is now vital to save Britain.
You wrote what I've been thinking these past few months. We have collectively turned our back on the source of all good, because our material wellbeing trumped our spiritual wellbeing. We bought into the Satanic lies of the Enlightenment, of progress and are paying a high price for doing. Either Jesus is Lord or the devil is.
Well, he's on a journey, isn't he? He might get there. I can understand how, from his own experience of organised religion, he's somewhat disheartened. It's clear that whenever he goes to church these days he meets with some rather uninspiring stuff. It's not easy in the UK; you have to look high and low to find a suitable church. It seems that outside of London or some very posh suburbs in the shires you do have to manage your expectations of church life, or be prepared to travel long distances for religious instruction and worship. He seems to be living in quite a remote area, but even there he's experienced the woke clergy that he was hoping to avoid. There's probably not much choice. I found this to be a surprisingly interesting discussion though. As others have said, I wouldn't have expected Rod to have much of a religious sensibility. His Methodist upbringing was probably unusual, but it seems to have left its mark on him.
Being sceptical of religious priests supernatural truth claims is a perfectly reasonable position to me. Rod is a rational bloke and not surprising he may be sceptical of the whole religious shebang. Virgin birth, resurrection, miracle claims, original sin are highly questionable.
@iainrae6159 My case in point. The country will be destroyed as a result of your 'worldly wisdom', being at such odds with what genuinely built and lay behind your heritage and culture. You may not like the idea of the existence of the "supernstural" (let alone that figure on the cross and all that strange stuff) but as your Creator actually exists He will clearly not much like your existence in return. England is screwed unless you and those around you - like Rod - wake the hell up and smell the coffee. That's all that can be said. Our ancestors are watching in shame. Our.country is over. If we do not take our Church and our Nation (media/TV) back from seriously dark forces such as those that this Rod works for, by force if necessary, it is curtains.
He presents with an apparently impenetrable wall of intellectualism. I agree with plenty of his thoughts and comments, but I can’t hear any humility or real understanding of theology or faith.
A believer?, irony! A proof that his religion has not operated any positive impact on him. Should it? Only a choice of a certain folklore different from a neighbour as you choose a football club.
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I had a very innocent faith in Jesus throughout my time at primary school. This as shattered by teenage cynicism (and the complete lack of any cultural or social pressure or justification for a Christian faith in England). I’m 35 now and went to my first mass a while ago. I hope to be confirmed this coming Easter. I don’t pretend to have had a great conversion experience but rather a change of heart. I am choosing to live in a different way and it has already brought me more solace and true community than I’ve really had before. I know (and respect) the intellectual arguments for atheism and theism. I used to see faith as something you either had or had not. A gift maybe. But in all honesty I think it is a choice. And leaving aside all philosophical questions i am praying in the same church my grandfather married in just after the war. The town is changing dramatically (first mosque popped up in an old baptist church) and not for the best (immigrant criminality and general social decay). Going to church also feels like a form of cultural resistance at this point.
Hallelujah!
I agree, going to church does feel like cultural resistance at this point. I go myself now after a lifetime of not going. I’m still working out exactly what I believe in- the truth is that I’m not sure- but in this highly technological and atheistic age those weekly hours in the church ( either at mass or just sat on my own in a near empty church of a quiet evening) are really nourishing for the soul.
A joy to be in the virtual company of two old school journalists, musing over some of the more important questions that arise in the autumn of my and their life.
Thank you gentlemen for an informative conversation.
I have to admit I didn’t have Rod down as a believer. Excellent talk. Thank you.
also ian hislop being a believer...proves even super intelligent people are not immune to believing in nonsense...
Two thoughtful and intelligent blokes speaking sense and lots of truthful insights.
Thanks boys!
Looking forward to this. Great to see another video from you, I could listen to your voice all day! 😄 Thank You.
Excellent conversation. Hugely enjoyable.
Man searches for meaning, but also purpose. Our true purpose is seemingly being eroded away, and all we're left with is making money and self indulgence via consumerism.
As a working class American (that doesn't exist, they say) bolocks! I absolutely adore Rod Liddle...
Cheers 🍻
"My mother had a slight leaning towards Mosely" - wonderful wordsmith…xxx
Wonderful. Refreshing. Profound. !!!! Hallelujah. !!!!!
💋 the bedrock of my philosophical standpoint - love this guy
Fascinating discussion.
I have just found your channel I am so glad and especially listening to RodLiddel I look forward to hearing more thank you 🙏 in such dark times
Excellent! Made my day: true.
Wonderful again
Really like the decor. The mirror goes perfectly with the fireplace.
Don't forget the growth in Catholic congregations.
The growth may well be important but they need to figure out if the pope is a catholic and what the hell happened after Vatican2…otherwise its not growth but retrenchement and an effort to disengage with actualité - no point at all in ‘following Gods will’ if one isnt actually acting it out…silence in the face of Genocide being a fair example
Rod didn't mention the growth of the Orthodox Church in the UK, Orthodoxy hasn't gone woke ☦☦☦☦☦☦☦
Sounds like Rod has seen the work of the same "dissident economists" that I have over the last four years.
Roughly speaking the work adds up to the conclusion had Britain maintained a homogeneous population of around 40-50 million; not had divorce laws or double income mortgages and incidentally, pursued nuclear and not trashed the railways among other things - but most of all not embraced unfettered immigration, Britain by now would be a wealthier version of Switzerland or Norway. Smaller in overall GDP than present but much higher in GDP per-capita (which is what counts). Environmental, housing and NHS problems disappear (who would have guessed!?).
On top of which it turns out that no developed economy needs immigration unless it has:
1. Unexploited resources that the native population cannot successfully exploit.
2. The state capacity (private and public) to organise and exploit said resources (Curiously Britain did up until about 1965. No need to ask what happened after)
3. The space into which the immigrant can expand
Needless to say Britain (unlike say, America) has none of these attributes.
The next part of the project I understand is, to measure the exogenous effects (positive or negative) of a non-European immigrant. Something that apparently has not been done in economics for fear of the answer. "Think of the cuisine, bigot!"
Incidentally, the "dissident economists" are from global investment banks and for obvious reasons keep their heads down - for now.
An excellent conversation. Does anyone happen to know a good History of Christian Socialism?
Great conversation thanks
On divorce . The issue of the abusive husband is brought up as justifucation . On one level it does free the woman but it also frees the abusive man to go out and abuse more women . The Christian responce would be to stop the abuse by dealing with the mans behaviour .
Quite. Christianity was unique from the very beginning, literally, in viewing man and woman as equal before God, a complimentary pair equally dependent. Infidelity and abuse always came under spousal abandonment.
A proud Teessider,good lad.
We can say, with some confidence, that Britain is definitely mission territory. And has been for at least half a century. Nice talk, thank you.
So,it isn’t just me. That’s (sort of) a relief. Talking about the scales falling from one’s eyes, it was reading The Abolition of Britain by Peter Hitchens that was a bit of a turning point but going to church as a child was and still is the root of it. Unfortunately, the C of E has lost its way; it’s up to us to go back to Church and show the clergy what we, the congregation believe and do not believe.
Rod! You need the Holy Orthodox Church!!!! ☦☦☦
Dont be patronising…the Windsors etc are a turn off in Britain
Rod mentioned that he feels that the voice or presence of an inner judgement of himself is somehow extraneous, God perhaps. I used to believe that myself but later realised it was more likely me judging myself, something probably imbued in me from a Catholic upbringing. My self appraisals were repetitive and unduly harsh, so how on earth could that be helpful ? I eventually deployed a very good inner defense lawyer who does a great job for free.
Common sense. Love from Limerick.
24:10 why do we never discuss the catastrophic harms caused by divorce and unstable relationships in general? Because our key opinion leaders are heavily invested in this philosophy of life. They cannot admit that they were and are wrong. As a GP, I saw the massive harms due to sexual revolution, but you are not allowed to talk about them. This country is going to hell in every sense of that word because we have thrown Christianity under the bus.
PS 10 million abortions, 10 million immigrants to replace these children who were denied life. This country has chosen our own doom, societal suicide and the end of our civilisation.
Not in every sense of that word... we haven't all thrown Christ under the bus and that is especially true of many immigrants.
Personal belief is subtended by the freedom which is central to personal affirmation of Christ. Alongside this we have a triumphalist physicalism which wants to affirm a universal negative, which is a form of ignorance.
Lots of interesting points meriting comment and further development. With regard to the theme of religion, or more generally to the human perception of the divine, neurophysiology is opening new vistas. I'm sure many readers of this page will already be familiar with the work of Dr Ian McGilchrist but for those who aren't, The Master and His Emissary is worth reading.
And who is mcgilchrist funded by?
There is a political Party in Scotland which was founded on the importance of family to be the bedrock of a healthy society……the Scottish FAMILY Party. See Manifesto.
The SFP is a pro-life Party, the only one.
I know the English revel in swearing, but it would be nice if we didn't. Robin Aitken does not sully his mouth with such vulgarities. I wish I didn't! I'm working on it. Good conversation though! Thanks for all you do Robin.
Belief and doubt is what the perishable is all about. The Entropy of unconsciousness, eats all its victims.
Peak woke. :) Liddle is amazing.
Read Steven Meyer.
Look at Rod, what a mess.😂
Certitude is definitely unnatural but can be obtained by experience of the supernatural, That is why the 'natural' believer has problems with the fervent bible believer. God is supernatural and when you experience Him then you have certitude. Certitude doesn't mean that you cannot have doubt but that you'd be crazy to do so.
3:00 What is put in God's place is "money" and "the self".
Great conversation …..
But
Never ever put Christianity and Islam in the same box and sentence…. Total opposite one’s a religion the other a cult …as you will be killed if you try to leave !!!!!!
Christianity believes in forgiveness
Please research your thoughts deeper
🕊🙏🏻🕊
Tell that to everyone who was burned alive during the Reformation. You're all the same.
You may abhor certitude Rod, but you did not mention Jesus Christ in person ONCE... That is beyond depressing...
When are you all in the press going to bloody well wake up and ACT?
... When you are kneeling in judgement before Him trying to explain your dismal failure to LEAD your country and culture back Home again?
I am sorry but the nation deserves far better than you lot in the inner party.
The English are now an absolutely pathetic disgrace.
Say His NAME, man - grow some balls... Be proud of Him... - look at your flag and be proud only of Christ and let the young have someone finally to follow.
Unless England turns around from your Godless hatred of Christian righteousness and returns to Christ with faith and reverence your country will never be blessed again. Never.
It is curtains.
England deserves its fate for turning its back on the only Truth.
Say His name!!
What the HELL happened to you all?
Your ancestors must be disgusted.
Sorry to blame you personally - I was worse.... but you have shocked me.... The interviewer, too.
This just isn't good enough.
The rebel yell is truly, truly needed - a total revolution is now vital to save Britain.
You wrote what I've been thinking these past few months. We have collectively turned our back on the source of all good, because our material wellbeing trumped our spiritual wellbeing. We bought into the Satanic lies of the Enlightenment, of progress and are paying a high price for doing. Either Jesus is Lord or the devil is.
Well, he's on a journey, isn't he? He might get there.
I can understand how, from his own experience of organised religion, he's somewhat disheartened. It's clear that whenever he goes to church these days he meets with some rather uninspiring stuff. It's not easy in the UK; you have to look high and low to find a suitable church. It seems that outside of London or some very posh suburbs in the shires you do have to manage your expectations of church life, or be prepared to travel long distances for religious instruction and worship. He seems to be living in quite a remote area, but even there he's experienced the woke clergy that he was hoping to avoid. There's probably not much choice.
I found this to be a surprisingly interesting discussion though. As others have said, I wouldn't have expected Rod to have much of a religious sensibility. His Methodist upbringing was probably unusual, but it seems to have left its mark on him.
@rosaliemarshall9640 yes, let's obviously.pray that he sees the Light asap and that goes for so many English people.
Being sceptical of religious priests supernatural truth claims is a perfectly reasonable position to me.
Rod is a rational bloke and not surprising he may be sceptical of the whole religious shebang. Virgin birth, resurrection, miracle claims, original sin are highly questionable.
@iainrae6159 My case in point. The country will be destroyed as a result of your 'worldly wisdom', being at such odds with what genuinely built and lay behind your heritage and culture.
You may not like the idea of the existence of the "supernstural" (let alone that figure on the cross and all that strange stuff) but as your Creator actually exists He will clearly not much like your existence in return.
England is screwed unless you and those around you - like Rod - wake the hell up and smell the coffee.
That's all that can be said.
Our ancestors are watching in shame.
Our.country is over.
If we do not take our Church and our Nation (media/TV) back from seriously dark forces such as those that this Rod works for, by force if necessary, it is curtains.
He presents with an apparently impenetrable wall of intellectualism. I agree with plenty of his thoughts and comments, but I can’t hear any humility or real understanding of theology or faith.
A believer?, irony! A proof that his religion has not operated any positive impact on him. Should it?
Only a choice of a certain folklore different from a neighbour as you choose a football club.
Hello everyone,
The content on this channel has been sporadic lately due to a lack of funds. If you’re able, please do consider supporting us through the link below. Thank you, and God bless!
www.newhumanum.org/donations